Gen 8 Double Fossil Hail - The Most Icy Team Of Generation Eight

Where should Arctovish be ranked in the VRs?

  • S+ tier

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • S tier

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • S- tier

    Votes: 9 69.2%

  • Total voters
    13

Intro

Hey there! I'm Coral. SwSh OU has been by far my most-played generation of OU despite having been playing for like 6 or 7 years now. In my spare time I've been going through almost every low-tier mon in the game and at least trying to build around them, and Arctovish stood out to me. Dracovish got banned pretty early into the meta and he was really fun to use, and now there's a mon with the same broken move, the same attack stat, and a speed-boosting ability in weather? Seems pretty cool, right? Only disadvantage was its Ice typing and its issues hitting bulky Waters... or so i thought :P
Freeze Dry hits every Fishious resist for neutral or super-effective damage, besides Walrein and Shedinja. Plus, it has access to 100% accurate Blizzards to chip down Ferros and Buzzwoles. This team was supposed to be just for fun, but it ended up being my favourite team I've built this gen, and it got me, a bad player, to top 200 and could easily be taken higher by a top player.

The Team

:sm/ninetales-alola: :sm/arctozolt: :sm/arctovish: :sm/latias: :sm/swampert: :sm/corviknight:

️‍⚧️ Luna ️‍⚧️ (Ninetales-Alola) (F) @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aurora Veil
- Toxic
- Encore

Just the hail setter. Toxic is to hit Ttars, Volcaronas, Hippos, Unaware Clefs, etc especially on the switch. Odd HP to survive 4 rounds of rocks. Pretty standard otherwise as far as I know. She is sometimes needed to fill slight holes in my defensive core, because for example, Corviknight is often not enough to deal with Weavile on its own, and a Dragon immunity is nice for predicting moves from Chomp or Pult.
Her name is Luna and she is canonically trans.
Steve (Arctozolt) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Stomping Tantrum
Higher spatk than standard to ensure maximum Blizzard damage to Ferro/Buzzwole. Enough attack to OHKO Weavile and to 2HKO standard Clef. Stomping Tantrum is its strongest option against Heatran and Magnezone, and can also surprise Zeraoras that Volt Absorb Bolt Beak.
His name is Steve and he works in HR.
Bob (Arctovish) @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 32 Atk / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Fishious Rend
- Freeze-Dry
- Blizzard
- Hail
The icelord himself, Vish 2HKOs pretty much the entire tier, but the main guys you gotta worry about are Ferrothorn, Volcanion and Spdef Pex (physdef is 2hkoed :)). Worst-case Arctovish gets big damage on the opposing Ferro or Pex which opens up Arctozolt and Latias. Volcanion is the closest thing to a counter but Latias kinda walls it and Swampert usually like wins the 1v1 if you play well. 29 HP IVs means you take 1 less % of Life Orb damage. No one really stays in with Pult on this so you don't miss the <420 speed stat that much.
Usually the first thing I do when loading up this team is look at the opponent's Arctovish switchins. It's rarely the win condition itself but it's like one of the best wallbreakers in the game imo, and destroys almost all stall teams near-singlehandedly.
His name is Bob and he is a pretty chill guy.
Emily (Latias) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
- Roost
Secondary wincon to the hail guys, Latias just has a really nice profile of resistances for Hail. Switching in to Water, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Electric, Psychic and Ground moves allows Latias to setup on or wall mons like Urshifu, Kartana, Blaziken, Heatran, Victini, Zapdos and Rotom-Wash. Many of those are problems for the hail abusers/my defensive pivots. I've tried Magnezone and Kommo-o in this slot, but I've had the most success with Latias. Psyshock can be better in some cases, and more speed would help against Garchomp, Taunt Mew, and Specs Blacephalon, but I found myself adding more and more physical defense over time to be able to setup on more things, so its speed had to suffer a little.
Her name is Emily and she girlbosses all over the tier.
Jaiden (Swampert) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Mirror Coat
- Stone Edge
AV Pert is super underrated, imo. The EVs just maximise Spdef and hit an aestically pleasing 222 defense, whilst minimising speed for slow pivots. When using Leftovers or Helmet sets I found that 90% of the time I'm clicking Flip Turn and switching in on special moves, so why not just make it AV and give up on rocks? This set means I don't auto-lose to Scarf Blacephalon, and it allows me to come in on annoying mons like Slowking-Galar, Zapdos, Dragapult, Volcanion and especially Heatran, and more often than not gain momentum. Mirror Coat allows me to lure a kill on Lele/Volcanion, and Stone Edge is specifically for the Volcarona matchup because I found I was super weak to it and never used Scald anyway.
Her name is Jaiden and her unqiue colour is a result of eating all of the cupcakes.
Darren (Corviknight) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
The corresponding physdef slow pivot to go with Swampert, this is pretty standard for a Corv, it's a defogger, steel type, ground immune and slow pivot all in one. Its defensive profile complements Pert extremely well (Pert switches into most Elec/Fire attacks, Corv switches into most physical and grass attacks).
His name is Darren and he is a gigachad.

Pokepaste
https://pokepast.es/391f6e2b188cbde8

Alternate versions
1668477113450.png

These versions are pretty good too, but Zone -> Latias was ultimately the key to this team's success. I still think defensive Defog Zapdos is a fine substitution for Corv, but the team would then lack a steel type so really I'd have to also do something like Latias->Melmetal. If anyone wants to branch off the Zone route, I'd recommend Chople Magnet Rise since it's good for both Ferrothorn and Melmetal.
You can also try spdef lando over spdef pert, but you become weaker to mons like Blaceph and Heatran over time.

Matchups
  • This team destroys all stall except for Safety Goggles Shedinja + Spdef Hippo stall which is pretty much impossible unless you catch the Shed off guard with Edge Pert or Toxic Alolatales. Luckily this is extremely rare.
  • This team generally wins against balance teams, with the most annoying mons being Ferro, Spdef Pex, and Volcanion, though like you have 6 mons and the breakers here are broken. Like, generally balance teams will have like one or two answers for each Hail abuser but the fact they often overlap just means you have to sack one to beat the other.
  • This team destroys Rain, thanks to its huge vulnerability to Freeze Dry. Ferro is the only threat on there and once it takes a couple Ice moves it's pretty close to dead. Latias also does great vs Rain.
  • This team hard loses to Sun, as well as Trick Room, unless your opponent is bad & you're a prediction god. Again, luckily, these team archetypes are very rare.
  • This team struggles against Sand, since it becomes a war of whose setter dies first (or if you get the vital freezes within the first few ice moves). It's by no means unwinnable but teams with Ttar often do well against this team.
  • This team generally wins vs opposing hail, since you have two hail abusers.
  • Volcarona offense wins automatically vs you if they crit Giga Drain or dodge Stone Edge.
  • This team has a 50/50 matchup against spikestack, since Spikes aren't that bad and you outspeed a lot of their guys but Rocks and Weavile are annoying.
  • This team generally wins vs HO, though Blaziken in particular is tough if it has Knock for Latias, or if their team forces damage on Latias early on.
1668478800263.png

In an overview of the sample teams, only the two Sand teams are really difficult from preview and otherwise you can outplay most teams there without too much effort, and Stall and Rain in particular are made super easy if you don't throw. Obviously the real range of teams is a lot more broad and varied in practice but hopefully that's useful as a rough guide to help you plan out your games.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1710403235 Band Pult BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1709053177 6-0ing minimax AI lol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1707580210 Destroying stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1708823287 Destroying stall again
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1710285515-n0llsex7a13l9fbu3capsmd1l1hvyx9pw Weavile + Lele BO

Conclusion

This team is pretty easy to win with vs standard, non-sand teams, it's just 2 wallbreakers, a hail setter, 2 bulky pivots, and a CM setup wincon. If you're tired of getting stalled this team gets games over with quickly and doesn't require that much skill. You just click buttons and win. Looking forward to Gen 9 but this team will stay with me as my favourite team of the generation <3
 
Hi Coral,

Glad to see you made an RMT! Always glad to see someone else using the underutilized pokémon. I was just talking the other day about how come no-one uses Arctovish (its absence in OU was always a mystery to me considering the merits you described); and I was going to make a dual fossil hail team but was a bit preoccupied making my own RMT this week.

The Corviknight + Water/Grass core is something I too have been an admirer of; when I tried with RocksPert I felt I it had issues against hard hitting waters and rain teams and wanted to use Seismitoad instead. But between running AV, having Latios, and controlling weather with hail, I think it's perfect here. Mirror Coat too is something that would wreck me since the only good way of my team hitting Swampert is my Zapdos' Hurricane.

However, you mentioned the issue with sun teams (and Volcarona) and I agree (especially against Venusaur where Earthquake does jack all); might I suggest trying out my signature Snorlax in place of Swampert? It makes an almost just as perfect core with Corviknight, and lets you 1v1 all sun and fire threats with ease. You may desire Earthquake as a 4th move to get back the coverage Swampert had and handle Heatran more easily (slightly worst matchup against Venusaur though without Heat Crash).

Between the special bulk he and Latias have (I was surprised it was PhysDef because in your first replay he took a Tornadus-Therian Hurricane like it was nothing, even for +1 SpD), along with and an electric resist in Latias and Arctozolt, you may find you don't need a ground-type for those errant Regieleki. Though if you feel you do perhaps that is where the SpDef Landorus-Therian could replace Latias since Lax covers the mons that threaten Lando and not Lati (but I like Latias for resisting Urshifu and Blaziken.

If you try it out let me know how it goes! Really nice team overall, and I love the thought that went into the EVs. It's ashame I didn't get to face the team myself (or possibly lucky on my part). Nice work!
 
Hello Coral,

I genuinely like the different formatting you used for this RMT, looks very cool and readable! (Side note: this is a better Ice Melt song IMO)

The concept of the team is not common in terms implementing double slush rush in SS OU thus keeping Ninetails alive is extremely key for success (aside from Latias getting that Weakness Policy activated).

I love the team! Hail is probably the most underrated weather type but with the introduction of Slush Rush in generation 7 I genuinely think that with the combo of hitting Freeze-Dry is deadly.

I'll speak about threats:

Sun teams as you said can be a problem just because of the typing of your team also with the constant combo of trying to keep Ninetails alive which would be a hard switch because you don't want to switch in on a fire attack. Latias helps with this by having good resistance especially with a Sun team must (Venusaur). You say your team is weak to trick room, and I will say all balanced teams are weak to trick room but the best way beat it is stall out the turns and have a Pokémon with Substitute / Protect and switch-predicting on resists. I don't think Scarf Blacephalon is necessarily a threat because of Swampert, but keeping Pert alive is vital when you see Blace on team preview because in case it's scarf it can be a good cleaner on this team if rocks isn't up (Which you don't have a rocker).

Recommendations (I'll go down the list):

For Ninetails, I would recommend that you change the move set I feel if you were sticking with 1 move I think Freeze-Dry over Moonblast is a must because you can get a freeze in general and most importantly to hit water types including things like Pelipper if they decide to come in and setup rain. I run Freeze-Dry single move on a lot of Pokémon the only true drawback is the resistance when it comes to steel types which you're getting on Moonblast regardless. You can stay with toxic but since Ninetails is important to keep weather alive as your first win-con I would suggest going with Pain Split > Toxic, it's a not a reliable recovery move but it will do it's job depending on the situation. I would recommend toxic if this team had stall aspects which in my eyes (it doesn't aside from Corviknight)

With Arctozolt, I recommend following the standard Smogon set so you can 1-up your opponents and make sure you don't have to constantly predict in case your opponents is trying to stall your weather turns and keeping a sub up on a switch. Low-kick will help you by-pass certain Pokémon that would wall your current set like Air-Ballon Magnezone or Tyranitar. I won't lie Ferrothorn with Body Press or Gyro Ball will give you a problem, but at least Low Kick will be providing 41.4 - 48.8% if it's a special defensive variant, so after a few chips Ferro will be in range

:Arctozolt:
Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Substitute
- Bolt Beak
- Blizzard
- Low Kick

I don't have any recommendations for Arctovish, I like the set and I like the prowess of the mixed attacking + Life Orb. I would say I recommend going with a Naive nature instead of Naughty so you can outspeed things like Zeraora and Dragapult, which I think can be vital depending on the circumstances.

I like Latias how it is, I would say you brought up Psyshock, for the times that Weakness Policy is not activated Psyshock might be the better choice for example going against a Venusaur. Depends on how often Weakness Policy is utilized based on your experience, but I like the current set anyway.

Since I think Swamperts set is very cool, I would recommend based on this team to go with Skarmory > Corviknight so you can have the ability to set up entry hazards or for Swampert to lose Assault Vest and go with Stealth Rock (I would go based on your preference). Skarmory is a great physical wall (Same physical typing as Corviknight) You're pretty much going from U-Turn > Stealth Rock every other move will be the same.

:Skarmory:
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles / Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog

Cool team, and I hope you have continued success.
 
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Nice take on the double fossils! I love your sets for Arctozolt and Vish! I also like Assault Vest Pert a lot. I built around double fossils a while ago, but I think your take is more solid. But how do you deal with Ttar? I guess thats a reason to keep Moonblast on Ninetales, to deal some damage everytime it switches in. Guess Lati has to take a Bit ans retaliate with aura sphere...

May I share my take with you?
I chose Defensive Volc as my steel switch in (I wanted a dedicated answer to melmetal) with sweeping potential (somehow like your lati) and spdef chomp as my rocks setter and Heatran switch-in (which your pert does better I guess, and rocks aren't too important since you are defogging a lot with 3 ice types anyway...). As my defogger I ran Torn-T with a twist: With the attk investment it OHKOs unsuspecting Ttars which often stay in. Also helps vs Heatran a lot. Let me know what you think about my take, fellow slush rusher =)

Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Freeze-Dry
- Low Kick
- Icicle Crash

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 116 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Superpower
- Defog
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Arctovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Icicle Spear
- Freeze-Dry
- Psychic Fangs

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Roost
- Giga Drain

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
- Toxic

Ninetales-Alola @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Encore
- Freeze-Dry
- Moonblast
 
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