Mafia vs Village Double Lynchpin Mafia - MONSTERS WIN

[Aura Guardian]

POSTGAME

The INTENDED setup:
Lynchpins would hide, while the doublepins/back-up pins would use either their mole powers or their ability to be bodyguarded to be active. Before roles, If the village had the worst of luck EXCEPT that the village never split but perfect lynching, they would barely win. Part of the game was working around the moles and millers (with Roy and Dresden being placed to mitigate this, and another part was that the villages had recovery roles that are more traditionally mafia. The village would conserve these until they were getting behind or until they identified multiple mafia.

What happened:
The village doublepins waited until it was too late. Steven Snype misled the village and somehow got almost everyone to claim to him. Dresden got randinspected while disguising as the Watcher, which got him quickly killed off. I said I randomized the roles, but people STILL nametargeted like mad, and the village shot itself in the foot two nights in a row. Not a single harmful village action targeted the mafia when they randed N0, by the way. Villagers, if you have a harmful role, DO NOT RAND IT on N0. Wait until you have information. Seriously not obeying that guideline crippled the village.

Jalmont tried to salvage things, but the then-too-apathetic village was a little too much for him to overcome. If he'd gotten Snype lynched instead of himself, the village might have had a chance.

The lynch changing was a safeguard vs stagnation, and when there's two minor villages instead of one bigger village, is it really the setup for a lynch? Villages had many roles that functioned best as recovery, while the mafia started strong and were supposed to get weaker. Also, if the recovery roles died, and villages were equal at the end, it would be a stalemate.

Note:
The mafia was built as follows: Dragons are defensive, Fairies are a little more of attackers.

__________
Problems:

Atrocious Village play early-game (lots of people honestly claiming important roles to someone who didn't back it up at all, or in one case pubclaiming a BG role).
The lynch->elected kills twist was not as well-designed as it should have been
The game was balanced around Dresden having to hide, and not lead directly. This prevented me from using the better aliases system. It should instead have been balanced around Dresden leading behind an alias. Nametargeting abounded, despite mostly-randomized roles.

Maybe I should have nerfed mafia killing power, but really, the mafia strongly deserved this win.

___________
MVP: Steven Snype, for getting almost all of the village information and making sure that the village recovery roles died first.

 

[King_]

props to Steven Snype for somehow getting people to claim to him

 

[Yeti]

the jalmont mislynch was one of the biggest FailFish moments in storied smogon mafia history

 

[Ampharos]

Walrein was the problem.

dude you were way too certain about acid/rssp being good and flat-out refused to consider any other possibility\

yeah apologies for earlygame laziness but i was busy with wayne bradiest and REALLY didn't wanna village lead as safeguard (which i don't think is a very good leadership role)

 

[Lrr]

Walrein was the problem.

As someone who didn't play in this game, I don't know how you can say this when you were constantly saying that Snype was obviously town and were seriously considering ragesubbing if he was lynched

 

[zorbees]

i want to take part of the responsibility for this game, don't just blame walrein, i didnt recognize the fact that walrein should have lead, especially because he was fire and i was positive that shubaka was ice. getting randtargeted sucked, im sure that the mafia got a pleasant surprise when i flipped as lynchpin.

not to shit on this game, but i feel like if i were making a doublepin game, i would design it almost backwards of the way this game was designed. village needs a stronger start relative to the mafia; the fact that the mafia is united and that there is no wolf means that there is no worry of crossfire and the lynchpin can supply a ton of confirmed-village targets to each side. the village lynchpin is generally not going to make it to the end of the game most of the time, and when he dies, the mafia theoretically shouldn't worry as much about being steamrolled over by the villages because theoretically the smaller village at the time should be wary of getting to the endgame as the loser to the bigger village.

 

[JALMONT]

I don't want to say it's anyone's fault, but yeah the lynch-pins and those around them who knew certain users were clean could've and should've done a lot more. That's all I have to say about that.

In hindsight I guess I should've idled my hook. Oh well.

Re: lynching me. I mean come on guys. That was pretty bad. That's a situation where it's as good as it gets in terms of my evidence vs his evidence. I'm super surprised people ever found Snype trustworthy enough and thought that it would be a good idea to gamble my role in a situation in which village would be down 5 kills after a potential mislynch of me. I get the "information" vantage point but information is bad when you're literally about to get end-gamed lol. Shoutout to whoever was smart enough to vote Snype as a villager. wp to andrew i'm interested in knowing exactly how many people claimed to you lol

 

[King_]

Steven Snype who did claim to you?

 

[King_]

These were the votes when Jalmont died
Unvoted (1): Whydon
Jalmont (7): Blazade, Ditto, Nomark, Steven Snype, THE_IRON_...KENYAN?, Thetwinmasters, Walrein
Steven Snype (4): Flyhn, Jalmont, King_, Tymano
Not Voting (7): acidphoenix, arugalove, askaninjask, Aubisio, Mithril, rssp1, penguin344

1 hour and 27 minutes until deadline, plus change.

 

[Ditto]

I'm just gonna say that I still honestly felt jalmont was scummy. Something about him just didn't sit well with me. I started this game in a tough position I feel because of my miller status, and I thought Snype was mafia when he was gonna lynch me. After he changed the lynch, I didn't feel he was as scummy, but I wasn't too read up on the D1 lynch. Anyways, there is no way that village deserved to win this, so I there's that. I randed N0 because I hate idling. N1 targeted jalmont because I thought he was scummy. Then died. I should've tried to lead the village, but I didn't have the balls to with a miller claim.

 

[Blazade]

Jalmont while I didn't exactly trust snype, I didn't have a reason to trust your defense or "evidence" either. AFAIK it was your word against his and you've stood your ground like that before as either alignment.

 

[Aura Guardian]

village needs a stronger start relative to the mafia

Having seen how this game went, and considering other ways it could have gone at certain points, I agree; this was a mistake on my part.

 

[Nomark]

My one regret is freezing jalmont n1, don't regret the lynch (my ultimate thoughts were that if snype was a mole, we already lost, but i'm just rationalizing at this point). I really learned a lot about how to play from this game, it was my first oc besides byo. Thanks everyone.

 

[shubaka17]

oops

 

[JALMONT]

Actually you did have a reason to trust me considering that the ppl I targeted received confirmation that they were hooked so yeah?

I mean in hindsight I guess for a lot of ppl who claimed to snype, voting him would be admitting that you made a mistake, so I guess I can see why ppl would be hesitant to do that so that was probably a point against me. Otherwise, I'm not really sure what I should've done to be "not scummy." Like what did you guys want from me lol?

Like look at the first day??? That was a lazy lynch if I ever saw one. Didn't get a claim from Haruno. Didn't consider no-lynching with NO info. No one thought that was suspicious??? You guys were all like, "yeah man we can trust this one!" zzz.

 

[Blazade]

I never doubted you were hooker Jalmont but that didn't prove you were town

 

[Thetwinmasters]

I would have been a lot more inclined to not vote jalmont if he didn't bring up godkills and actually explained to me why he was rand hooking n0 instead of telling me he doesn't need to tell me.

 

[JALMONT]

That reasoning doesn't make any sense at all but okay. Especially considering the fact that you brought it up first and you continually told me to godkill myself which was obviously the wrong move but whatever lol.

Like I said, it seems pretty clear at least now that ppl weren't willing to vote snype because in doing so they would have to admit they were wrong to claim to him. Hopefully this will teach people to be a little more careful about trusting random ppl just because you gave them all your info (and maybe even make ppl a little more cautious about giving random users all your info).

 

[JALMONT]

I never doubted you were hooker Jalmont but that didn't prove you were town

Nothing snype did proved he was town either but that didn't seem to bother you ?_?

e: Weren't you telling me I should've led as town too? or maybe that was twin? I dunno but that's exactly why hooker isn't the best role to lead as I've always felt.

 

[Blazade]

Nah I was coin flipping. I didn't really have a reason to believe one of you over the other is my point. I'm not gonna be shamed for the "blunder of the century" when neither of you had solid proof.

Claiming when pressured is very different from taking initiative from the very beginning (which would be a reason why you would rand N0)

 

[JALMONT]

Seems kinda strange to be coin-flipping in that spot though. I don't think mislynching was the "blunder of the century" but I would def call it a mistake, especially if you were actually flipping a coin.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

The timing of this game for me was horrendous unfortunately. Left for vacation during it and I was much more focused on Wayne Bradiest, to the point I didn't bother finding a good fake and I was the most obvious scum I could possibly be as a result. So basically dumb town and smart buddies carried for me.

Honestly I would've subbed if I hadn't basically done the equivalent of wearing a T-Shirt that said "I'M SCUM" in all caps. Come on that wouldn't be fair to the poor guy to sub into my slot.

 

[Andy Snype]

apologies if this post seems incoherent i started typing this up mid-hangover and wasn't able to sit down and type this up.

Steven Snype who did claim to you?

The following wizards did not claim to me:
zorbees, jalmont, Nomark, Tymano, Aubisio, King_.

I did not go around asking people for their claims, only their targets. People are so suspicious initially so that's all I asked for but some people traded roles. The village came to me. I got unsolicited PMs from: Shubaka and Whydon with their claims via forum PM there were a couple of others though that were unsolicited on IRC iirc TIK.

Everyone else claimed to me with their role by jalmont lynch. I was aware that there was an ice watcher from talking to shubaka but did not know who it was, and ruled out asek/aubisio on being watcher consequently just off of that timing.

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N1 Discussion

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Do you think a kill on zorbees has a high chance of being successful?

This was before I knew that aska had an inspect and targeted him n0, which I found out like D2 (that's how poorly we communicated among ourselves).

I honestly wanted to sit back and just turn in actions initially. Then nobody stepped up (twin was about to because we were just in the IRC chan) and I was getting annoyed that nobody was doing it, so I stepped up D1, pretending to be a villager that got a result immediately suspicious of someone. I knew that D1 I had to choose to claim something, and with my role I would rather claim hooker than watcher. I should specify that the fakes we got were just role names, nothing about what roles the village lack. So guessing which faction didn't have anything was the role. I figured I would be lynched either d2 or d3, depending on the rate village got unified, which outside of me, was apparently minimal. The thing with claiming hooker though is that it would be a much higher risk that I would not be lynched or targeted to even last that long and also raise suspicion that I might actually be a mafia hooker. So I claimed watcher instead and pulled results from thin air. I did actually have Mithril target Haruno N0 as a rand hoping maybe someone else would target him. Honestly I was getting busy outside of the game with other shit and used that as an excuse, which sux, but yea.

Most of my planning phase occurred up to N1, the only thing was that I didn't know who I'd be mislynching since I was stuck to a watcher claim on a BG that is going to die 100% (from a villager's perspective). Based off of the After that it was fuck it and hope for the best. I was expecting to get lynched D3 though. Almost all of the claims I received were information based so I figured of the ones whose roles I did not know, those were the ones to be action-based except for TIK so my priority was getting rid of you guys. Of my options available, I figured priority roles were on you guys and I wanted to eliminate the possibility of there being a hidden faction. Of the people alive that did not claim to me, it was easiest for me to blame it on you :( you happening to be hooker was just icing, but I'd feel terrible doing that to any of the 4 newer people with 0 clue. D2 was honestly just a hail mary and I just let Twin be Twin (even with talking to other people itg, it would've been easy to also lead a mislynch on Twin, but Twin's role just wasn't worth it dead than going for the unknown).

N2 was pretty straightforward: eliminate the other power roles and maintain this position. I did not want to kill Walrein because he told me there were ingame reasons and I figured he was doublepin like how rssp1/phoenix were. I was planning on aska surviving, which effectively counted as a BPV for this alliance to work. Even if both twin and rssp died, that would be best case scenario because that would give us 3 lives since aska needed to die for us to split. We needed Blazade dead, who I was under the impression was BG because we hooked him n0 and he told me he didn't receive a result so I figured his role may have been either a passive one (BPV) or a defensive role: BG/SG. And then we killed Ditto to ensure night actions would at least go through. TIK wasn't that big of an issue because we just needed to not put the kill on Mithril so that way he would have to martyr the omniguard or martyr the kill and die anyway. Our biggest mistake itg was deciding to idle the persuader again. If I did the math out, the rates would have been fine even if this was revealed because if the villager voting with us were to be godkilled, thats still a rate of 3 village deaths to one mafia death. Just so long as we did not split the lynch, we would be likely to win. I expected there to be a buff to the village collectively as in maybe some roles were now nightly (like Walrein). I hooked Whydon on the chance that he discovered we had a persuader and targeted Flyhn since Flyhn was our most important role (soon to become the most useless one in a few ngihts but o well :P))

D3 came by and I expected to die and then aska did instead so fck, but we knew who king was and to ensure our odds of survival it was to make sure rssp/acid did not get lynched and even though we had oneshot abilities which should give it away given the pairing system of this game, we were worried that someone would realize the moles were the mafia lynchpins. We had to kill King and elected to kill Walrein to ensure that the night after we could hook TIK since I assumed SG would always be on TIK so TIK wouldn't be intentionally going for omniguard. We asked AG though and he said that he would not redirect if Mithril elected to idle though (but that wasn't until afterwards).

D4 I was annoyed and just wanted to say fuck it to decrease odds of kingmaker and just took out the fires. I let rssp decide the game winning hook, though if I decided, I probably would have hooked peng (who I later found out was safeguarded, Aubisio was the only role we did not figure out by endgame out of virtue of being able to be vigilante/ an Ice version of King or something). Even ngiht SG was a possibility but I did not worry about that as much because I would rather just off aubisio. I think Ice may have had a better chance if they voted for TIK instead of peng though since if he targeted Mithril he would literally be the unstoppable killer in their eyes is what I probably would have thought.


Though it was possible for us to collaborate n0, we did not out of terrible game activity like everyone else and I really wanted to take a backseat role but man I feel terrible now for ruining this experience for the villagers though they (un)-rightly lost. I get this is a team game but looking back on this role, it just required cohesion that a few villagers just didn't step up to lead, which screwed the whole machine over for a while. I don't know what to say other than someone should've stepped up. It could have been said that had Twin just publicly posted his role as I offered to lead as well, that would have been a much better outcome because if there's a fire wizard checker, there is very likely an ice wizard checker to corroborate twins claim. Penguin was hesitant to step up to lead the ices because of his Miller though if he were to just be open, I think ditto would have empathized considering how that went D1. This also would have garnered King's attention as well. Though we value inspections so much early on, they fall off harder than a Renekton like come on he at least has a W stun and is a meatshield, which beats a vote and a role that the mafia really doesn't need dead because all it reveals is that they're mafia which whoop de fricking doo SHOCKER.


I tried to keep the ices and fires within themselves initially to make people more comfortable since people are just so paranoid about sharing information with EVERYONE. Honestly I think my night actions that i gave to people n1 helped the village the most. It verified TIK, Walrein (and Whydon, but I kept that bit hidden for a bit). Twin was becoming antsy D2 and demanded who I believed was clean. I think I fucked up by not throwing in a mafia and lying to him about it, but I was kinda hoping that whenever fires got together that leadership would think that I put a bad egg in there. I had clean people target others except for TIK. Honestly if I were village, I would have had a much more open mind than I did this game and not tunnel so hard onto Haruno. I would have pushed for a Ditto lynch harder though because a miller that has a kidnap that did not idle N0 honestly sounded less likely than a mafia that was not given a fakeclaim claiming his actual role in a relatively dead game.


I didn't really touch base with ices n1 until I found out shubaka never gave you guys targets. Even then, I think I only messaged TIK and probably penguin? Not too sure.

Probably my boldness in claiming made it less likely for me to be an actually useful role for mafia to the uninformed eyes, which helped once the lynch shift happened.

Random thought but one thing to note about this game's design is that I felt too rigid in banking on certain individuals. I think it would have been a bit more important to provide flexibility, maybe experiment with how MP2 attempted to go about it by making factions relevant all throughout lategame by buffing certain roles when overall #s dwindle and maintain a faction feel. I think some form of voting system akin to everybody votes and that one where there was a 10-man massacre including the secret faction i was on with the statues. From my perspective, I saw no reason to go to lynchpin since we had a fairly strong grasp anyway and I was collaborating more with the Dragons which felt more like Monsters than Fairies + Dragons.

 

[King_]

I don't know why Twin was so firm on believing I was Mafia. The dude owes me $500

 

[Aura Guardian]

I don't know why Twin was so firm on believing I was Mafia. The dude owes me $500

He showed me the log. I had a great IRL chuckle about that.