Doubles DLC2 Crown Tundra Speculation Thread [SPOILERS]

[raf]

Ideas taken from Ubers, OU , and UU speculation threads.

WARNING: This thread will contain spoilers. Information about DLC2 Crown Tundra will be disclosed and if you do not wish to know this information prior to release, then please do not proceed.

An announcement on Tuesday this week finally gave us some information regarding the second wave of DLC for Pokemon Sword and Shield including a release date of October 22 which gives some time to speculate on the future Doubles meta.

A list of the Pokemon that are confirmed in DLC2 Crown Tundra can be found in the following image:

​

New Movepool Additions:

Movepool Additions

Sources:
TR/TM - Datamine by @SciresM
IoA Tutor - Datamine by @mattyoukhana_

Anything remotely potentially relevant will be bolded.
These are subject to change (if Game Freak changes their mind).

Returning Ubers
Blaziken
TRs/TMs: Assurance, Revenge, U-turn, Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Heat Crash
IoA Tutor: Coaching, Scorching Sands

Dialga
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe, Body Slam, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scale Shot

Genesect
TRs/TMs: Swift, Assurance, Leech Life, Endure, Blaze Kick (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: -

Giratina / Giratina-O
TRs/TMs: Phantom Force, Breaking Swipe, Body Slam
IoA Tutor: Poltergeist, Dual Wingbeat

Groudon
TRs/TMs: Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

Ho-Oh
TRs/TMs: Fire Spin, Swift, Helping Hand, Imprison, Mystical Fire, Air Slash, Flare Blitz
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Dual Wingbeat

Kyogre
TRs/TMs: Heavy Slam
IoA Tutor: -

Landorus / Landorus-T
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Scary Face, Weather Ball, Sand Tomb, Body Slam, Endure
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

Lugia
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Imprison, Air Slash, Hurricane (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

Naganadel
TRs/TMs: Pin Missile, Endure, Toxic Spikes, Giga Impact, Swift, Assurance, Cross Poison, Hex, Breaking Swipe, Spikes, Dragon Dance
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat

Palkia
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe, Body Slam, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

Pheromosa
TRs/TMs: Assurance, Endure, Close Combat
IoA Tutor: Coaching, Skitter Smack

Rayquaza
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe, Hydro Pump, Cosmic Power
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Scale Shot

Xerneas
TRs/TMs: Swift, Draining Kiss, Smart Strike, Body Slam, Endure, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Misty Explosion

Yveltal
TRs/TMs: Swift, Payback, Body Slam, Endure
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Lash Out

Zygarde-10% / Zygarde / Zygarde-C
TRs/TMs: Swift, Payback, Breaking Swipe, Body Slam, Reversal, Endure, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Skitter Smack, Scale Shot

Potentially Viable
Buzzwole
TRs/TMs: Revenge, Body Slam, Close Combat, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Coaching, Dual Wingbeat

Celesteela
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Body Slam, Endure, Megahorn, Cosmic Power
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide, Steel Roller

Cresselia
TRs/TMs: Power Swap, Guard Swap, Body Slam, Cosmic Power, Stored Power
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

Diancie
TRs/TMs: Charm, Fake Tears, Sand Tomb, Guard Swap, Draining Kiss, Mystical Fire, Metronome, Amnesia, Endure, Baton Pass, Encore, Stored Power, Ally Switch, Play Rough, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Misty Explosion

Dragonite
TRs/TMs: Fire Spin, Breaking Swipe, Hydro Pump, Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Air Slash, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

Kabutops
TRs/TMs: Rock Blast, Psycho Cut, Cross Poison, Razor Shell, Leech Life
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

Kartana
TRs/TMs: Solar Blade, Screech, Endure
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide

Nihilego
TRs/TMs: Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Cross Poison, Hex, Body Slam, Endure
IoA Tutor: Corrosive Gas, Meteor Beam

Omastar
TRs/TMs: Pin Missile, Liquidation
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

Salamence
TRs/TMs: Air Slash, Breaking Swipe, Hurricane
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

Stakataka
TRs/TMs: Mega Kick, Body Slam, Endure, Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Steel Roller

Tapu Bulu
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Rest, Revenge, Bullet Seed, Power Swap, Guard Swap, Endure, Close Combat, Stored Power, Play Rough, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Grassy Glide, Misty Explosion

Tapu Fini
TRs/TMs: Rest, Dive, Guard Swap, Draining Kiss, Endure, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Flip Turn, Misty Explosion

Tapu Koko
TRs/TMs: Rest, Swift, Assurance, Eerie Impulse, Endure, Close Combat, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Rising Voltage, Misty Explosion

Tapu Lele
TRs/TMs: Rest, Charm, Power Swap, Guard Swap, Speed Swap, Psycho Cut, Endure, Future Sight, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse, Expanding Force, Misty Explosion

Thundurus / Thundurus-T
TRs/TMs: Scary Face, Weather Ball, Assurance, Eerie Impulse, Body Slam, Endure, Electro Ball
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage, Lash Out

Tornadus / Tornadus-T
TRs/TMs: Scary Face, Weather Ball, Assurance, Body Slam, Endure, Nasty Plot
IoA Tutor: Lash Out

Zapdos
TRs/TMs: Hail, Weather Ball, Eerie Impulse, Air Slash, Brave Bird, Hurricane
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage, Dual Wingbeat

Probably Unviable
Absol
TRs/TMs: Air Slash, Close Combat
IoA Tutor: -

Aerodactyl
TRs/TMs: Rock Blast, Dragon Dance, Hurricane, Psychic Fangs
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Meteor Beam

Aggron
TRs/TMs: Body Press, Sand Tomb, Rock Blast, Scary Face, Hydro Pump, Crunch, High Horsepower, Swift
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Steel Roller

Altaria
TRs/TMs: False Swipe, Fire Spin, Breaking Swipe
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat

Archeops
TRs/TMs: Swift, Rock Blast, Assurance, Endure, Air Slash
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Meteor Beam, Lash Out

Armaldo
TRs/TMs: Mud Shot, Shadow Claw
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

Articuno
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Icicle Spear, Air Slash, Brave Bird
IoA Tutor: Triple Axel, Dual Wingbeat

Audino
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Giga Impact, Body Slam, Endure, Swift
IoA Tutor: -

Aurorus
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Body Slam, Endure, Icicle Spear
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

Azelf
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Assurance, Drain Punch, Psycho Cut, Draining Kiss, Metronome, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Encore, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

Blacephalon
TRs/TMs: Fire Punch, Solar Beam, Fire Spin, Self-Destruct, Rock Blast, Shadow Claw, Mystical Fire, Endure, Encore, Zen Headbutt
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Expanding Force

Carbink
TRs/TMs: Charm, Sand Tomb, Guard Swap, Endure, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Misty Explosion

Carracosta
TRs/TMs: Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Endure, Muddy Water, Razor Shell
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

Cradily
TRs/TMs: Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Dig, Grassy Terrain, Power Whip
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide, Meteor Beam

Crobat
TRs/TMs: Assurance, Agility, Crunch, Hex, Hurricane
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat

Cryogonal
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Icicle Spear, Avalanche, Endure
IoA Tutor: Triple Axel

Electivire
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Darkest Lariat
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage

Entei
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Weather Ball, Agility, Flare Blitz (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

Garchomp
TRs/TMs: Breaking Swipe
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Scale Shot

Guzzlord
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Body Slam, Amnesia, Endure, Heat Crash, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Lash Out, Steel Roller

Heatran
TRs/TMs: Self-Destruct, Body Slam, Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands, Steel Roller

Jynx
TRs/TMs: Icicle Spear, Psycho Cut, Psychic Terrain, Future Sight
IoA Tutor: Triple Axel, Expanding Force

Latias
TRs/TMs: Psycho Cut, Mystical Fire, Air Slash, Breaking Swipe, Agility, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Future Sight, Dragon Dance, Aura Sphere
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

Latios
TRs/TMs: Psycho Cut, Mystical Fire, Air Slash, Breaking Swipe, Agility, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Future Sight, Aura Sphere
IoA Tutor: Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot

Magmortar
TRs/TMs: Weather Ball, Mystical Fire
IoA Tutor: Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands

Mesprit
TRs/TMs: Drain Punch, Psycho Cut, Draining Kiss, Metronome, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Encore, Nasty Plot, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

Metagross
TRs/TMs: Psycho Cut, Cosmic Power, Brutal Swing
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force, Steel Roller, Meteor Beam

Moltres
TRs/TMs: Hail, Weather Ball, Mystical Fire, Flare Blitz, Brave Bird
IoA Tutor: Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands, Dual Wingbeat

Nidoking
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Hex, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

Nidoqueen
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Mud Shot, Rock Blast, Hex, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

Raikou
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Electric Terrain, Eerie Impulse, Agility, Scald, Aura Sphere (previously event-only), Weather Ball (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage

Regice
TRs/TMs: Icicle Spear, Heavy Slam
IoA Tutor: -

Regigigas
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Rest, Protect, Body Slam, Endure, Heat Crash, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Terrain Pulse

Regirock
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Rock Blast, Flash Cannon, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam

Registeel
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Heavy Slam, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Steel Roller

Relicanth
TRs/TMs: Rock Blast, Liquidation, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Scale Shot

Sceptile
TRs/TMs: Solar Blade, Cross Poison, Breaking Swipe, Dragon Dance
IoA Tutor: Grassy Glide, Scale Shot

Spiritomb
TRs/TMs: Hex, Phantom Force
IoA Tutor: Poltergeist, Lash Out

Suicune
TRs/TMs: Helping Hand, Weather Ball, Agility, Liquidation, Air Slash (previously event-only)
IoA Tutor: -

Swampert
TRs/TMs: Sand Tomb, Bulk Up, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower, Liquidation, Body Press, Swift
IoA Tutor: -

Tyrantrum
TRs/TMs: Scary Face, Rock Blast, Assurance, Body Slam, Endure, Close Combat, Breaking Swipe, High Horsepower
IoA Tutor: Meteor Beam, Scale Shot, Lash Out

Uxie
TRs/TMs: Drain Punch, Psycho Cut, Draining Kiss, Metronome, Tri Attack, Baton Pass, Encore, Nasty Plot, Stored Power, Play Rough
IoA Tutor: Expanding Force

Victini
TRs/TMs: Mega Punch, Mega Kick, Fire Spin, Swift, Power Swap, Guard Swap, Speed Swap, Mystical Fire, Baton Pass, Encore, Future Sight, Blaze Kick
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands, Expanding Force

Volcanion
TRs/TMs: Fire Spin, Scary Face, Rain Dance, Mud Shot, Thunder Fang, Misty Terrain, Focus Energy, Endure, Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Scorching Sands

Walrein
TRs/TMs: Icicle Spear, Swords Dance, Hydro Pump, Heavy Slam, Liquidation, Body Press
IoA Tutor: Steel Roller

Xurkitree
TRs/TMs: Endure, Electro Ball
IoA Tutor: Rising Voltage

These changes are definitely going to shake the metagame up heavily, especially since a lot of these returning Pokemon were staples in the previous generations of Doubles. Here is a link to the tiermaker containing all the fully evolved Pokemon returning in the Crown Tundra DLC. My own low effort tierlist is below, feel free to make your own and share it in this thread.

Some interesting points to discuss are:

• Which terrain and Tapu do you think will rule the meta this gen, or will all of them see some varying levels of usage like in USUM?
• Do you think Pokemon that were potent in Generation 5 and 6 (such as Heatran, Tornadus and Thundurus) but saw little usage in Generation 7 will once again have a place in the meta ?
• Will Rillaboom maintain its position as the premier (currently the only) Grassy Surge user or will Tapu Bulu offer something different to teams that need its ability?
• Which currently viable Pokemon will fall off, and which will see a rise in popularity?
• Will the ladder once again put Garchomp on every team with little success or will they now move on to spamming Galarian Weezing with Regigigas instead?
• Which new Pokemon are you excited to be able to use once again?

Be sure to bring up anything else that you think is noteworthy, and also don't forget to follow the forum rules while posting.
Hoping to see some meaningful discussion in this thread. Have fun!

 

[shrop]

 

[tennisace]

Gonna split this up into winners/tbd/losers:

WINNERS:

Koko, Lele, Bulu - This is the most obvious one and I'm going to lump all 3 of these together. Koko gets Rising Voltage, which makes special sets extra danger, and Play Rough/Close Combat to make physical/mixed sets viable in DOU. Lele gets Expanding Force, which is extra dumb because it can hit Dark-types super effectively with Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam (or boop em with Focus Blast if you really hate Incin, but more on him later). Bulu gets Grassy Glide for stronger priority than Rillaboom, secondary STAB in Play Rough, and all the dumbshit coverage you could want (CC, High Horsepower, Stone Edge, Darkest Lariat for shits n gigs). All 3 of these are going to be competing for your terrain, and it's going to be even more brutal than last gen since the overall power of the meta went down while their power went solidly up.

Zapdos - Sure it lost HP Ice, but it gained Hurricane (and Air Slash) which are far more important imo. Being able to check and muscle past Bulu can help on a lot of team comps, and now the best Landorus has against it is Non stab Stone Edge/Rock Slide, while you can hit hard with your Flying STAB. Tailwind and Static are still great, it still gets Roost, etc. Overall looking good for the birb.

Weezing-G - Oh man look at all these abilities to negate! While Lando being back isn't great, you can pop your own terrain then prevent your opp from changing it with smart pivoting.

Minor improvements -

- Stakataka gets Body Press off 211 Def and Heat Crash off T H I C C body, and there's no dynamax to block it. Combine those with Rock Slide and Gyro Ball and 3 atk TR could be somewhat frightening.
- Diancie also gets Body Press to synergize with Diamond Storm boosts, as well as Play Rough to go full Physical if you wish. It also gets Mystical Fire for its special sets if you really hate Scizor/Ferrothorn.
- Cresselia gets Stored Power, making CM sets incrementally better.
- Pheromosa is faster than Dragapult & gets Close Combat now, which might let it work decent in that Deo-A "don't touch me plz im fragile" role.
- Salamence gets Scale Shot and Dual Wingbeat, along with Intimidate, but I think it's better off in VGC where it can Airstream.
- Kartana gets Grassy Glide and Solar Blade but neither are super needed. It still does Kartana things, though Smart Strike might be more valued for Bulu deletage.
- Latios gets Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire but Dragapult is spooky still
- Moltres can take advantage of HDB and gets Scorching Sands, so it might be a niche Pivot.
- Suicune gets Helping Hand. It was a solid Tailwind/Snarl/Icy Wind mon last gen, and now gets another decent support option for the toolbox. Dunno if it's worth it though.

TBD:

Landorus-T - On the plus side, there's no random HP Ice to boop it. On the minus side, it can't use HP Ice to boop other Landorus (or Zygarde for that matter. It gets Scorching Sands, because it definitely needed Ground Scald. Weather Ball on rain teams could be a fun tech in the future. On the whole tho, a mixed bag of a couple buffs, a couple nerfs, and a metagame that may force it into an even more defensive pivot pigeonhole than before.

Heatran / Volcanion - Putting the two Fire types here as they sort of have the same role as "Fire type glue mon". They both are solid defensive pivots, but a lot of mons gained High Horsepower as coverage this generation and I'm afraid they might get a bit lost in the shuffle. Heatran DOES get Eruption + Timid/Modest nature though, which lets it unleash a strong af attack under sun... but the sun setters got so much worse without Zard. Volcanion still has Fire/Water coverage, and can put HDB to great use... but it doesn't have great resists for this meta imo.

Fini - It technically did not get worse, in fact it got better with the addition of Flip Turn, allowing it to act like a status blocking Blastoise (sans FO/Follow Me). However it's in TBD because the other Tapus got so much better in comparison imo. It outright loses to 2/3, and Lele can muscle through it if need be. That didn't stop it last gen, but we'll have to see.

Rillaboom - Tapu Bulu is going to give it a run for its money as the Grassy Boi of choice. However, Fake Out / U-turn / Knock Off are all solid support options, and Pure Grass has a few advantages over Grass/Fairy. I think it'll be ok but I think Bulu will be more widely used at first.

Incineroar - HDB is still great on Incin, and it still does Incin pivoty things. However, what does it really _beat_ in the metagame?

Zapdos-G - Obviously all the new legends are TBD technically but Zapdos-G is uniquely suited to be cool here. Defiant in a metagame where Intimidate is quite important, a move that lowers Defense, and Fighting/Flying typing (and I assume coverage) will make for a solid pivot type Pokemon if the stats and metagame line up.

Rain teams get better with Pokemon like Hurricane Zapdos, Nasty Plot Tornadus, and Koko/Bulu, to pair with Politoed/Kingdra. No Mega Swamp is a pain though.

Sun teams - I don't want to fully dumpster them because I think they'll adapt. However Rain gets better with stuff like Zapdos to support it, and Heatran/Volcanion aren't trivial to get past.

Sand Teams - Excadrill will probably stay solid as good Steel types are hard to come by. Setting up sand though is a grab bag of "wellllll I guess they work...". You have TTar which struggles with all the Tapus, Gigalith which is slow af and almost needs a TR mode, and Hippowdon which just kinda sits around. Yeesh.

Losers:

Zygarde - Look, I don't think Zyg will be _bad_. Thousand Arrows is still broken af and Landorus can't rely on HP Ice to hit it. However, all the fairy types that soft-checked it now get Play Rough to hit it (lookin at you, Bulu), and now it has to deal with Dragapult which outspeeds & is immune to Extremespeed, while not being weak to TA. It gets Scale Shot which might help but on the whole I think theres too much working against it in the metagame.

Indeedee - Dumpster it unless Lele gets banned and even then it can't stand up to any of the other Tapus really.

Urshifu-R - All the Tapus coming back dunk on Urshifu in different ways. It can't outspeed Koko, it can't beat Bulu with Priority, it can't touch Fini without Thunder Punch, and it outspeeds Lele but that's like a trade at best.

Chansey - What does this wall anymore? Even Lele gets close to a 2hko.

Kommo-o - The sudden influx of Tapus + Lando isn't great for either clanger set, which is quite unfortunate.

This isn't a comprehensive list but just initial observations. Theres a lot of cool things I didn't list (Naganadel, Blaziken, Genesect, Victini, Garchomp) but I just wanted to get these out there.

 

[GenOne]

Not all of these Pokemon are worth talking about but I tried the tiermaker as a mental excercise, and this is a list I came up with without overthinking stuff too much.

I'll just go mon-by-mon to explain my thought process.

Tier 1 or broken, idk which yet

Tapu Koko

I'm pretty sure Tapu Koko has the biggest target on its back right now as a problematic influence on the new meta. The new move Rising Voltage gives Tapu Koko a nearly consequence-free 140 BP STAB inside of terrain, with the one caveat that it hits Flying-types with a (super-effective) 70 BP STAB. At the very least, Koko will be a fucking lethal endgame cleaner if its partners can deal with opposing terrain setters before letting Koko die. At worst, Koko's power might be too strong for the meta, although I hope we let things settle for a bit before coming to kneejerk suspect requests.

Despite its raw power, Koko isn't without flaws worth sweating about. Landorus-T is returning, and into a meta where Hidden Power Ice isn't available as a stopgap Landorus-T check. Tapu Koko can't really hit back meaningfully against a healthy Lando-T, let alone a Choice Scarf Landorus-T which I can already see being popular.

Furthermore, I can see Tapu Koko struggling against teams with multiple opposing terrain setters and/or Galarian Weezing. Rillaboom's presence as a good utility mon (fake out + uturn) makes it pretty viable to stand up a team with Rillaboom + Lele/Fini/Bulu that consistently deprives Koko of its Electric Terrain turns. Tapu Koko + Gothetelle would be a really scary core (bang othetelle btw) that negates constant terrain switching, but this brings me to mention the relevance of G-Weezing in this new meta. G-Weezing has the dual benefit of snuffing opposing terrain setters while also threatening out all of the tapus with STAB Sludge Bombs.

Finally, Zeraora exists. It will probably be a lot worse compared to our current meta, but fast fake outs to deal with Rillabooms + Volt Absorb to deal with Koko suggest to me that Zeraora may still exist as a soft Koko check on some teams.

Diancie

Not too much to say here, other than we get a really good Trick Room setter back and it now benefits from the combo of Diamond Storm + Body Press.

+2 156 Def Diancie Body Press vs. 116 HP / 8 Def Kartana: 288-340 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With a bit of EV investment Diancie can now one-shot even a bulky Kartana with Body Press at +2 while taking less than half from Leaf Blade.

Indeedee-F also offers pretty solid support for Turn 1 leads that Diancie didn't benefit from in previous gens. Diancie will be a threat.

Tapu Lele

Expanding Force basically doubles the amount of offensive pressure Tapu Lele exudes in terrain compared to last gen, essentially taking one 90 BP Psychic attack and turning it into two Psychics directed at each opponent respectively. Psychic STAB runs into roadbloacks by design, most notably Dark-types but also Steels etc, so I don't think Tapu Lele will be quite as dumb as Koko. But it will still be pretty dumb.

High tier, but healthy I think?

Landorus-T

Lando-T will continue doing Lando-T things like previous gen, but no longer has to worry about everybody and their mom's friend-of-a-friend named Karen's friend named Susan's dog carrying HP Ice as a CT to Lando-T, which will make it a bit more reliable on the field. Being a decently strong check to Koko will also give Landorus-T some street cred.

But like previous generations, I think Landorus-T is by design a Pokemon that will always be super good while never having any broken qualities. It will just be a good glue mon like usual.

Genesect

Aside from a crippling weakness to Fire, Genesect pulls up to this new metagame as a Pokemon with the tools to deal with pretty much all the top tier threats, none of which can gimmick with HP Fire anymore. Scarf Gunk Shot is basically Tapus + Rillaboom = Cancelled. Ice Beam = Landorus-T + (at +1 SpA) Dragapult = Cancelled. And Genesect also gets a plethora of neat coverage moves to glue into your specific teambuild as needed. It offers a lot not only as a much coveted Steel-type slot, but also just as an all-around coverage attacker. Leech Life is a cool addition too although I think it still wants U-turn more. Genesect loses to monofire which bumps it down a tier.

Tapu Bulu

Not going to write a novel here. Bulu in a vacuum is unremarkable other than being a Rillaboom lite that checks Dragons. But the fact is Bulu + Rillaboom gets you a core with BST 570 and BST 530 setters respectively that can sustain their Grassy Glide momentum and be an absolute pain in the ass to any other Tapu trying to make use of their respective terrain. Double Grass cores obviously have exploitable weaknesses, but I think double Grassy Terrain is going to be a very real threat in practice nonetheless.

Zapdos (Kanto)

Zapdos now gets nice access to Air Slash and Hurricane, and also happens to take neutral damage from Tapu Koko's 70 BP Rising Voltages in terrain. Zapdos will be the bulky durdle squad tailwind rooster it has always been but now it gets Flying STAB.

Kartana

Has the raw power it always had, and now also has new potential as a Grassy Terrain abuser with Grassy Glide. As a fast-ish Tailwind setter, Kartana also benefits from Gen 8's new Tailwind mechanics.

Celesteela

This is 100% my most contentious pick on this list but I stand by it. We've seen what Corviknight has been capable of in the current meta, and now we have Celesteela which has newly gained access to Cosmic Power. On top of an ability Beast Boost that can further boost defenses upon a kill. Heavy Slam / Cosmic Power / Leech Seed + Leftovers is going to be a bitch to deal with if you're not prepared. And "broken Koko" can't even 2HKO it after a few Cosmic Power boosts so that's a thing:

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Rising Voltage (70 BP) vs. +2 248 HP / 128+ SpD Celesteela in Electric Terrain: 127-151 (31.9 - 38%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

We get more viable Fire-types which also helps, but I still think that Cosmic Power Celesteela is going to be a pretty viable endgame wincon if played correctly.

Could have potential idk

Tornadus

Prankster Tailwind on a Pokemon that doesn't have ass BST is promising in this meta, especially with how good Flying is offensively. Stuff like Tailwind Tornadus + Eruption Modest Heatran sounds fun. Tornadus also has neat coverage options like Sludge Bomb and Heat Wave. Tornadus also has a lot of flaw, hence not being higher tier.

Stakataka

Body Press and Heat Crash are neat new toys. Also checks Diancie inside of TR, but it better kill the Diancie or else it gets Body Pressed which is sad. Otherwise Stakataka just does Stakataka stuff.

Cresselia

Another beneficiary of Cosmic Power, as well as Stored Power. Basically a Psychic-type Celesteela that trades Leech Seed for Moonlight and a stat-dependant STAB.

Heatran

A special-attacking Fire-type with actually good stats is neat. It does not fear Rillaboom one bit and now gets fast Eruptions. Despite HP ground being gone everything gets Scorching Sands or High Horsepower now so tran always has to run Shuca which is sad.

Victini

Final Gambit Victini will probably carve a niche as a threatening fast attacker. It also gets a neat movepool in general and is a respectable Fire-type.

Volcanion

Being a Water-type that takes neutral to Rillaboom and retaliates with Fire is solid. Being weak to Koko and Lando-T is a liability. Seems like a solid-ish pick tho.

Tapu Fini

Lackluster in a vacuum, but still an obvious pick if you want to complete a FWG core while also adding disruption to terrain wars. More importantly though, Misty Terrain will provide "lesser" Dragons like Zygarde with a reliable defense against Dragapult, which actually matters imo. Also, all 4 tapus get Misty Explosion so you can potentially go full degenerate and run like Fini + Specs Misty Explosion Lele if you want.

Zygarde

Has a decent MU vs a lot of the meta after a Dragon Dance. Struggles a lot vs the Tapus tho, and Dragapult also suffocates Zygarde's viability. Run with Swagger Fini for best results imho ohno I've said too much xd

Naganadel

Same issue as Zygarde; Dragapult exists. But could be ok after a speed boost.

ladderchad pro strats XD

Regigas

"This is a broken stat stick when paired with Weezing, rate my team here's a 1240 elo replay of me destroying mono bug."

*Rest of team is UR mons and 2 of them are level 50 by accident. Also, there are only 5 mons on this team.*

Audino

"I will either succeed in achieving Sturdy Shedinja or lose. There is no inbetween."

Carbink

"I will either succeed in achieving Sturdy Shedinja or lose. There is no inbetween."

Cradily

#freeladdersand

 

[Mr.Bossaru]

im so exited for this

 

[ironwater]

Hi there, I’m here to continue the serie of “Which Tapu will be the more broken?”. After pointing out Tapu Koko in Single OU, I think it’s time to talk about Tapu Lele in Double OU.

Why do I think that this little cute thing will be completely out of control?

They are in my opinion several reasons that will make Tapu lele way too strong in the Crown Tundra metagame.


First off, Expanding Force. In their quest to “balance” the game, GF decided to nerf psychic terrain (all terrains in fact) going from a 1.5 boost to 1.3. Then they created a move almost as strong as Psychic that get both these boosts. But that’s not all! For a reason I ignore they decided to make this move hit both enemies (and not your teammate). With the 25% damage reduction from multi target moves, Expanding Force has a sweet 117 base power on both foes when terrain is up.


But Expanding force is not a problem on its own. Tapu Lele + Expanding Force is one, however. Indeed, Lele has significantly more offensive power than male Indeedee while being bulkier than the female version. In addition, you get a stabbed Moonblast to hit Dark types instead of an unstabbed Dazzling Gleam and you also get Focus blast for Steel types.


Third point is the great teammate who could help Lele or benefit from Psychic surge. I’m mainly thinking about Alakazam who is also able to spam Expanding Force while being immune to priorities which is obviously great for a mon that fast and that frail.
Another good mate could be Galarian-Zapdos. We don’t know its stats yet, but its typing and ability will help Lele dealing with its main counters. Indeed, its access to Defiant combined with its Fighting type will help a lot threatening Incineroar and Bisharp who are immune to psychic moves and not weak to Moonblast. Its Fighting type will more globally help against almost all Steel types and Dark types. Its second typing being Flying, it will also threaten Rillaboom/Tapu Bulu who won’t easily come on Lele to remove your psychic terrain if you have a mon ready to OHKO them.


Thank you for reading this and see you for Lele suspect (if it manages not to be quickbanned before).

 

[Red Pill PUA]

I’m not buying the lele broke psychic terrain hype.

When the first dlc drop everybody thought zam was broke and would be the Meta and to quick ban expanding force. Week later he’s on a missing poster.

Expanding force wasn’t broke then and I doubt will be broke when there are even more terrain users and steel rollers. ‍

All the theory’s about what the dlc 1 meta would look like were wrong. I expect the same results this time around.

 

[Actuarily]

Prediction: People will start out saying “Incineroar isn’t that good in this meta!! Look at pokemon x and y that have a good matchup against it.”

At first, few people will use it, because they believe the naysayers. Then people will start to use it, and hear “it’s only good on certain teams, definitely not as good as it used to be.”

Then slowly but surely, it’s usage statistics will rise. It’s teams will keep winning games. It’ll be used in 75% of competitive matches by Christmas.

And once the January usage statistics are released, who will be on top of that list? The fire cat himself.