Metagame Doubles Little Cup

jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey hey hey, here to make a post this time not as the tier leader but as a player. I'm going to reply to bandit (get a name change actu it feels weird jajaja) and then i will drop my personal 2 cents on the state of the tier with some of my own nominations.

:spritzee: tier 4 -> 2. Spritzee is the most reliable trick room setter, one of the best TR attackers, and the only relevant fairy type in the tier all wrapped up in one.

Its ability means it can’t be taunted or encored (unless neutralizing gas is present), and its 78/60/65 bulk allows Spritzee to always get off at least one trick room.

As an attacker, spritzee’s decent 63 spa combined with good coverage in moonblast & psychic lets it do big damage to a lot of the top threats. While steels do wall it, the best two Pokémon in the tier (mienfoo and ponyta) can easily remove these obstacles. Spritzee is really the only fairy attacker in a meta where two of the three Pokémon in tier 1 are fairy-weak.
I will commence saying that we may have gone a bit far on dropping spritzee to tier 4 (god voltix is gonna laugh at me so hard when he reads this) but previous to the tour, trick room was close to none seen. Now what have changed? Nothing to be honest, this is just the meta developing which i love to see happening. But is spritzee deserving of being tier 2? Well i personally don't think so.
When i think of tier 2 pokemon i think of pokemon that have success with pretty much no help at all which already makes spritzee not fit the definition. Spritzee better or worse at it (obviusly is the best at it) only works in trick rooms teams as a setter for the most of it. And then another point that i tend to use when i think of tier 2 pokemons is how much checks/counters it has and how many pokemons it checks/counter and the answer tbf is rather low. Spritzee is very tanky yes but the resistances it has won't stop it from getting hard chipped everytime it tries to set TR. Another thing i don't agree with is the part where you say spritzee is the only fairy type of the tier when we literally have Cottonee around, which yes, have a very different role and doesn't hit as hard from the lack of moonblast, but Cottonee offers as much if not more utility than Spritzee does and does it for a larger range of team archetypes yet i wouldn't say Cottonee is tier 2 worth it. Now not everything i have to say are negative things, ofc spritzee rn is phenomenal and is a key for the successful team-scheme "Trick Room" so i would totally support a raise but only to Tier 3.

:Mudbray: Tier 4 -> 2. Mudbray’s combination of high overall base stats, good movepool, and great offensive typing in ground makes it one of the most threatening Pokémon in the meta. It has two useful abilities, one aiding its offensive presence making sure it can never be intimated or flinched by fake out (inner focus) and the other increasing its physical bulk in a meta where most attackers are physical (stamina). It’s also at a convenient speed tier where it can function both on TR teams, or can outspeed the meta in tailwind.
Well i feel pretty much the same way as i do with Spritzee here, the only difference would be that i was already a Mudbray to tier 3 voucher previously to the tour. Bray is PHENOMENAL the bulk, coverage and offensive stats are just that good. But same as Spritzee i think Tier 2 is to much for it.

Ok and with this out of the way, let me drop my own nominations.

RISES

:Abra: Abra to t2 - I must say before anything that i may be biased here because i was, am and will be an abra stan. But i feel like people is just lurking over the Trick Room hype train when Abra is so good overall, everytime i see an Abra on the field it puts in a lot of work. Having that high SpA with an amazing speed is just so hard to deal with, specially when u can't flinch it and your only bet for revengekilling it is winning the speed tie with Ponyta, having Tailwind up or having an Scarf pokemon. I would also like to call out the Life Orb Inner Focus set which allows abra to break through teams even faster (i will give credits for this one to @risii even if i had thought of it in the past but she was the first one to show it so props on you).

:porygon: Porygon to t2 - Now this may sound weird, why Porygon to tier 2? You just said Spritzee wouldn't make it to tier 2. Okey let me explain myself, to me Porygon was always on the edge of tier 2, this pokemon is super versatile. It has so many sets and so many ways to either give utility or breaking power to teams. What ended up pushing it for me is how good Trick Room is as a strategy rn and Porygon is just so happy about this as both an abuser and a setter because this means more reasons to use it.

:Skrelp: Skrelp to t4 - Okey soo, after a 5 months iatus on the unranked lands Skrelp came back and seems like its been trainint because it came back strong. Of course the Trick Room raise is what's pushing it but i can't do but to agree with everyone that Skrelp deserves to be ranked for both its bulk and damage output. I personally would say tier 4 by now because i feel like it's one step above in all terms than tier 5 pokemons.

:Solosis: Solosis to t5 - I know for a fact that i'm not the only one that has been toying with solosis, but boy this little blob is a menace. You let it free to do as it please and it will bring you nothing but hell. The bulk it has makes it survive almost any attack even if it's a super effective one. While the SpA it has allows it to deal huge damage to teams. And the speed it has could be a problem, but trick room is literally one of the best team styles rn; solosis is on its sauce with the current state of the metagame.

:Cubchoo: Cubchoo to t5 - We were thinking about the wrong hail sweeper all this time. Cubchoo has the actual SpA to spam Blizzard which is amazingand still carry some physical moves specially superpower which allows it to ohko one of the biggest threads to hail teams on Pawniard. Additionally it can carry Surf on certain teams to also hit Ponyta for a big chunk.

DROPS

:Gastly: Gastly to t3 - I think Gastly is still a top threat that you need to have into account when building but it's sooo frail for it to do any progress on its own. The damage output is of course amazing but when you have to kill everytime in order to not die is a bit shaky of a condition to be considered tier 2.

:Sandshrew-Alola: Sandshrew-Alola to UR - Yeah you readed what i said about Cubchoo? Well so this pokemon here can't do it. Additionally the x4 weakness makes itjust so vulnerable to a lot more things which makes it not worth using in my opinion.

So this would be it for now, thanks for reading my opinion and of course feel free to give your own one or reply to mine if you think i'm wrong with anything, i'm always down to debate. I probably wont be adding any new nominations myself but i will try to reply to anyone that replies to me or that gives any new nomination.
 

Kipkluif

Liever Kips leverworst
is a Tiering Contributor
Alright now that I'm out of bracket I wanna highlight some mons that stood out to me.
:scraggy: - The best intimidate+fake out user. Flexible speedtier for tailwind and trickroom alike, can cover for fairies (although it won't ohko Spritzee), and the main thing holding it back is that it doesn't have Close Combat.

:koffing: - I didn't end up using it much, but Neutralizing Gas feels very underexplored to me, double activating porygon's Download, maybe running an item on your vulpix and get drought back through switching, denying speed boosting Chlorophyll and such and priority from Cottonee and Riolu, this thing is slept on despite being considered good already.

:cottonee: - Rise this thing tf back up. Cottonee sets up and interrupts many different team styles, it's great, use it.

:archen: - I really don't like Archen in this meta. Aside from Vullaby's Brave Bird, it has 0 useful resists, and it's just as much of a hassle keeping this thing alive as with Gastly. It's STABs are strong, but don't quite OHKO neutral targets, requiring even more support to keep Archen alive.

:remoraid: - funny fish has Water Spout, a good speed stat and decent SpA, great coverage on both the physical and special side, and Moody. Didn't end up using it in the tournament, but it took a friendly here and there. People should look into it.

Looking forward to the upcoming games, and the eventual winner. I'll keep in touch with doubles, see you all around next tour/lpl!
 
Out of doubles lc tour so I just wanted to post a few thoughts.

:growlithe: This mon is very underrated and people compare it too much to ponyta. If you are using Growlithe like Ponyta, you are wasting it, Growlithe should be a support mon with the ability to lower sp attack (snarl) and attack (intimidate+burn) on opposing mons. Intimidate also acts as a way to scout abilities, for instance in the match linked here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doubleslc-1347149479-o2etx3wh3mfipi5hqpnf9ygcmbdmlyfpw

I saw that my opponent's Mienfoo was inner focus instead of regenerator. This probably has a practical use when u use Growlithe+Fake out mon lead to ensure you dont get fooled. Would be tempted to rise to tier 4 if pushed since I feel Growlithe is one of the few viable intimidate mons.

:mudbray: I feel this mon is so underrated. It's tier 4 at the moment which I feel is a joke due to its bulk and the amount of things it can do in a match. Additionally, it is 13th in usage whilst i am writing this, so this shows it has viability on many teams. I would rise to tier 3 because of the influence it has in matches.

:porygon: Another mon I feel is so useful and should be moved up to tier 2. Porygon can do so much, support, offensive, has coverage to hit everything in the tier and ally switch. Despite the ubiquity of Mienfoo, Porygon is still useful in every match up, due to its ability to wall the majority of the meta.
 

Acehunter1

Doubles LC Leader
is a Tiering Contributor
Felt like nominating some stuff (incredible I know), and just realized I've never posted here. Hi everyone :)

:spritzee: Tier 4 -> Tier 2
I absolutely support this raise. Trick Room has proven itself to have so much potential throughout the tournament, and you won't see a Trick Room team without Spritzee. It's by far the most reliable Trick Room setter, as well as protecting itself and its teammates from Taunt/Encore. Definitely worth the 2 tier jump imo.

:frillish: Tier 4 -> Tier 4 (lul)
Just wanted to mention this guy. Trick Room setter immune to Fake Out, it also has access to Water Spout, Will-o-Wisp and Strength Sap to be a defensive or offensive Trick Room setter. It was already Tier 4 for some reason, I actually don't know why, cuz Trick Room wasn't used before (I voted it to be Tier 5 last month). However, I think it definitely deserves its place in Tier 4 now.

:aron: UR -> Tier 5
Rock Head + Head Smash? <3 Can we put this on the board, thx. Jokes aside, though, this little guy has proven itself to be an omega strong Trick Room attacker. It still has its drawbacks, and might not be good in every matchup, but I think it definitely deserves its place on the tier list.

:mudbray: Tier 4 -> Tier 3
Mudbray needs to raise for sure. Inner Focus is a really good ability, and it's rlly good bulk and Attack stat makes it a very potent Trick Room or non-Trick Room attacker. Aside from that, it can also act as a good anti-Trick Room Pokemon, with Inner Focus + Roar being very reliable at denying Trick Room, especially from Spritzee who is bulky af and immune to Taunt. Actuarily suggested it to be directly Tier 2, just like Spritzee, and I think it definitely has the potential to go to Tier 2, but I think for now, Tier 3 is a good place for it.

:chinchou: Tier 3 -> Tier 4
With the increase of Grookey usage, teams now have a better way to check Omanyte. Therefore, I think most people would feel less the need of Water Absorb Chinchou. It still remains an option, but with it also being weak to Grookey, being a Water type weak to Ponyta's High Horsepower and having few relevant resistances overall, I think it should be taken down a notch.

:magnemite: Tier 4 -> Tier 3?
Not sure about this one, wondering what other people think about this, but it might make sense with the Chinchou drop to fill in the void. I think with the rise of Trick Room stuff and Spritzee and Grookey and hail and stuff, Magnemite can do many more things now, with its many resistances, and its immunity to Poison is always nice.

Now to some of the stuff that was mentioned by others :

:gastly:
I might be a little biased here, but I think Gastly should stay on Tier 2 for now. It still has trememdous power and coverage, is immune to Fake Out, and is one of the best Pokemon to counter Spritzee and Grookey, which are on the rise. It seems to have performed poorly during the tournament, but I still believe it's deserving Tier 2.

:sandshrew-alola:
I don't think that this Pokemon deserves to go untiered with the rise of Cubchoo. It still has good advantages over Cubchoo : the Steel typing, while stacking weakness it already has, also gives it many more resistances and an immunity to work with (I think it pairs really well with Gastly, being able to spam Sludge Wave/Earthquake and covering each other's checks, but that might be an ideal scenario). Also, more importantly, it has a very fast Aurora Veil, which can be useful when your hail setter is Snover and doesn't have it, or Amaura has it but can't set it up reliably while holding Icy Rock. It might be inferior to Cubchoo offensively for now, but I don't think it should be untiered.

That's it for me for now, there might be some more stuff that will pop up in my mind later.
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Well so i was gonna wait until the tour finished to reply to people but i have a room of 2 hours of doing totally nothing but wait for my train so ig ill reply now lol.

:scraggy: - The best intimidate+fake out user. Flexible speedtier for tailwind and trickroom alike, can cover for fairies (although it won't ohko Spritzee), and the main thing holding it back is that it doesn't have Close Combat.
I've been a scraggy advocate all this tour, i think the mon has potential, and the high usage and huge winrate it has proves it. The only "problem" it finds is the lack of solid longetivity which makes it hard to last for the whole game. Altho i personally wouldn't call scraggy a staple from any kind of playstyle as its just a support mon that you may want to splash on yours teams eventually. To add uppon what Kip said, ive been toying with Dragon Dance lately and boy, this mon SLAPS; people should give it a try.

:koffing: - I didn't end up using it much, but Neutralizing Gas feels very underexplored to me, double activating porygon's Download, maybe running an item on your vulpix and get drought back through switching, denying speed boosting Chlorophyll and such and priority from Cottonee and Riolu, this thing is slept on despite being considered good already.
Honestly, i'm shocked people aren't using Koffing more, this pokemon is just SOOOOO good, neutralizing gas makes huge support in both annoying and helping one self. So totally double pointing kip's words here, use koffing it blocks stamina, download and aroma veil nice tr counter among many other utilities. nice vulpix mention kip

:cottonee: - Rise this thing tf back up. Cottonee sets up and interrupts many different team styles, it's great, use it.
Ok now is where we start the controversy. I feel like cottonee has so many problems right now, the rise of trick room as a whole literally makes it worse since it makes the priority utility cottonee can have useless, not to mention the bulk it has is lackluster to actually survive anything. And outside of the trick room matchup, there's almost always one of Pawniard, Vullaby, Ponyta, Gastly or Koffing on the field so you're going to setup one tailwind as max. The last reason that makes me not pro to rise cott back up is that generally people has been redirecting to Foongus or Grookey as their grass type so fitting both is just so hard to not say impossible. I also feel like Tailwind isn't a must anymore, with other archetypes like trick room on the raise you can be totally fine without having tailwind on your team since more bulky teams work better.

:archen: - I really don't like Archen in this meta. Aside from Vullaby's Brave Bird, it has 0 useful resists, and it's just as much of a hassle keeping this thing alive as with Gastly. It's STABs are strong, but don't quite OHKO neutral targets, requiring even more support to keep Archen alive.
Ok, back to agreeing with you, archen doesn't appreciate the state of the metagame right now, it needs so many support right now to excel and finds a hard time brealing bulkier teams. I wouldn't be pro of dropping it to tier 5 tho, i think tier 4 is fine for it.

:remoraid: - funny fish has Water Spout, a good speed stat and decent SpA, great coverage on both the physical and special side, and Moody. Didn't end up using it in the tournament, but it took a friendly here and there. People should look into it.
Yea hmm no, this is sooo hard to pull off to actually make it worth, You have a million better muddy water options that will give more inmediate results.

:growlithe: This mon is very underrated and people compare it too much to ponyta. If you are using Growlithe like Ponyta, you are wasting it, Growlithe should be a support mon with the ability to lower sp attack (snarl) and attack (intimidate+burn) on opposing mons. Intimidate also acts as a way to scout abilities, for instance in the match linked here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doubleslc-1347149479-o2etx3wh3mfipi5hqpnf9ygcmbdmlyfpw

I saw that my opponent's Mienfoo was inner focus instead of regenerator. This probably has a practical use when u use Growlithe+Fake out mon lead to ensure you dont get fooled. Would be tempted to rise to tier 4 if pushed since I feel Growlithe is one of the few viable intimidate mons.
We've discussed a bit in dm's london but since you made a post and i'm replying people i'll give my two cents here too jajajaja. I think there should be a push over growlithe with how the metagame is moving forward, it has many useful resists and intimidate amazing right now. I gotta agree on one thing with you and is that i dont get why people compare it to Ponyta, Growlithe job is to disrupt teams with intimidate, WoW Snarl Tox and whatsoever, it will never be as good offensively as Ponyta and that's fine. You also bring a good point, on how it helps to check abilities deffo worth the look specially with how much grookey has people been using.

:mudbray: I feel this mon is so underrated. It's tier 4 at the moment which I feel is a joke due to its bulk and the amount of things it can do in a match. Additionally, it is 13th in usage whilst i am writing this, so this shows it has viability on many teams. I would rise to tier 3 because of the influence it has in matches.

:porygon: Another mon I feel is so useful and should be moved up to tier 2. Porygon can do so much, support, offensive, has coverage to hit everything in the tier and ally switch. Despite the ubiquity of Mienfoo, Porygon is still useful in every match up, due to its ability to wall the majority of the meta.
I already went over Mudbray and Porygon on my above post, and i agree with London Porygon is tier 2 worth it so is Mudbray... of tier 3 :psygrump: sorry actu lol but im not convinced just yet.

:spritzee: Tier 4 -> Tier 2
I absolutely support this raise. Trick Room has proven itself to have so much potential throughout the tournament, and you won't see a Trick Room team without Spritzee. It's by far the most reliable Trick Room setter, as well as protecting itself and its teammates from Taunt/Encore. Definitely worth the 2 tier jump imo.
Not this again... i already went over this on my other post but i guess ill go over it again. Trick Room is obviusly very good and i wont deny it because i just cant; but come to think it, is Spritzee really what's pushing Trick Room to this state? Or are Porygon, Mudbray and Gothita? Because to me is the latter, of course Spritzee as i said on my other post is very good and a fundamental part of trick room but i wouldnt push it over to t2, if i were to push any it would be Mudbray, which i wouldnt place in t2 just yet.

:frillish: Tier 4 -> Tier 4 (lul)
Just wanted to mention this guy. Trick Room setter immune to Fake Out, it also has access to Water Spout, Will-o-Wisp and Strength Sap to be a defensive or offensive Trick Room setter. It was already Tier 4 for some reason, I actually don't know why, cuz Trick Room wasn't used before (I voted it to be Tier 5 last month). However, I think it definitely deserves its place in Tier 4 now.
I been saying this since before LPL, frillish is so goodz i even pushed us to put it on t4 before the tour and it proved how good it is, i would even push it to tier 3 myself right now, fighting inmunity with strength sap and such a large coverage and utility moves list is worth the give. Not to mention it has 2 amazing abilities on cursee body and water absorb which helps it to be able to wall things easier.

:aron: UR -> Tier 5
Rock Head + Head Smash? <3 Can we put this on the board, thx. Jokes aside, though, this little guy has proven itself to be an omega strong Trick Room attacker. It still has its drawbacks, and might not be good in every matchup, but I think it definitely deserves its place on the tier list.
Yeah so i actually think aron is cool and all but idk what would it have over something like Cubone to say a pokemon that would be similar. I already asked you this on discord but if you could elaborate this nomination it would be apreciated since i dont want to look negative but im struggling to find reasons to rank it tbh.

:chinchou: Tier 3 -> Tier 4
With the increase of Grookey usage, teams now have a better way to check Omanyte. Therefore, I think most people would feel less the need of Water Absorb Chinchou. It still remains an option, but with it also being weak to Grookey, being a Water type weak to Ponyta's High Horsepower and having few relevant resistances overall, I think it should be taken down a notch.
Yea i agree, with this one, the metagame is on a place where being weak to ground while also being weak to grass is not it, Omanyte is also not as spammable as it may have been during LPL so its just common sense that this one is less used, still good but harder to justify on teams.

:magnemite: Tier 4 -> Tier 3?
Not sure about this one, wondering what other people think about this, but it might make sense with the Chinchou drop to fill in the void. I think with the rise of Trick Room stuff and Spritzee and Grookey and hail and stuff, Magnemite can do many more things now, with its many resistances, and its immunity to Poison is always nice.
I actually been thinking about this too, the meta is developing to a place where magnemite stabs are super good in all ways, it was already very good and it dropped for just 1 vote difference last slate so i dont see why, now that things just got better for it, it wouldnt rise back up.

:gastly:
I might be a little biased here, but I think Gastly should stay on Tier 2 for now. It still has trememdous power and coverage, is immune to Fake Out, and is one of the best Pokemon to counter Spritzee and Grookey, which are on the rise. It seems to have performed poorly during the tournament, but I still believe it's deserving Tier 2.

:sandshrew-alola:
I don't think that this Pokemon deserves to go untiered with the rise of Cubchoo. It still has good advantages over Cubchoo : the Steel typing, while stacking weakness it already has, also gives it many more resistances and an immunity to work with (I think it pairs really well with Gastly, being able to spam Sludge Wave/Earthquake and covering each other's checks, but that might be an ideal scenario). Also, more importantly, it has a very fast Aurora Veil, which can be useful when your hail setter is Snover and doesn't have it, or Amaura has it but can't set it up reliably while holding Icy Rock. It might be inferior to Cubchoo offensively for now, but I don't think it should be untiered.
I wouldn't reply to this because i've been writting for a while already but since you mentioned two of my nominations especifically i feel in a semi-obligation of replying. Regarding Gastly, i feel the same way as Archen in a sense, its so hard to keep it alive and needs soooo much support for just one slot that you can fill with any of the other breakers t2, t1 or Abra which will give as much utility as Gastly on the breaking department without needing that many support for it to survive. You also mention it checks Spritzee and Grookey which isnt necessarily wrong but it falls flat when we go to the calc and find it only has a 1/16 chance to ohko'ing spritzee with its poison stab which means you are going to attack which brings the problem of just dropping to the other pokemon on the field, and regarding grookey, yes you're going to wall it, but you're making a comparison over a tier 3 pokemon which just cements my nomination. About Sandshrew... idk ive never been a fan of it, quad weak to the 2 best pokemon in the tier, no spread moves other than earthquake, and a very lackluster ice stab makes it hard to justify, aurora veil niches are not even that big for it since most of the times you're going to prefer the attack instead of wasting the turn on an aurora veil which will probably not safe you either from incoming attacks.

Okey phew, replies out of the way, now some nominations i forgot to do on my other post because i'm a bit dumb and my mind flopped it off.

TO RISE

:dewpider: from t4 to t3 - Finally people got up to Dewpider, the spider is phenomenal, not only because it's a staple of Webs teams which is very good vs almost every archetype but also is an excellent breaker in trick room. The winrate and usage it got on the tour proves itself.

:woobat: from t5 to t4 - Ok so... london is gonna laugh if he reads this but after a lot of consideration, woobat might actually be better than t5 lol. It has a lot of bulk going on for it and the counterplay is limited to phazing options (roar mudbray or scraggy), neutralizing gas or encore/taunt it which is not always the easiest task.

TO DROP

:squirtle: from t3 to t4 - Ok so, squirtle has been on the downside lately, grookey rise, it not belonging to any specific archetype and the prominence of other water types such as Staryu or Frillish and newer face Skrelp makes it harder to fit into your teams. It still has amazing bulk but it wont be able to do what it wants to since follow me redirection is harder to pull off with benefits for one self.

Well so this ended being long as shit but lol, hope you enjoyed the read and as always im up to a debate. :smogduck:

Oh btw while i'm at it and to not massive flood with posts... After a massive help on the development of the tier, with great klowledge and more than proved skills The_Bandit has been added to the council! Congrats dude well deserved, i'm sure you will bring good things to the tier.
 
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Hey wanted to post one of the teams that helped me in winning the most recent tour, especially since I realized there aren’t any public Koffing teams: https://pokepast.es/9efca70ebea17472

The combination of taunt with neutralizing gas stops so many opposing strategies such as: redirection, weather, Trick room, TW (if Koffing is faster than the TW user), etc. From there you just surround Koffing with various goodstuffs and you’re able to check the meta at large. In my opinion, this team has every tool you need to win every matchup - as long as you play well.
 

luisin

Love Live! The School Idol Movie. 1:35:50
is a Tiering Contributor
COUNCIL MINUTES

Hey people, time for another Council Minutes by me DIO. With some information about the state of the current metagame and whatever is going right now with the tier + a little sneak peek on future plans.

Metagame Discussion

Trick Room - One of the surprises of this past month, it has come like a thunderstorm and has hit the usage like a truck. But why is this? Trick Room has become a very good way of speed control for Doubles LC, and the shine comes granted from the following Pokémon (there are more but this are the biggest in both usage and winrate; and about porygon i'm talking later on the post):

Spritzee - This little Pokémon is essential for all Trick Room teams, the excellent bulk Spitzee it has makes it have atleast one confirmed TR up per game at the very least. But what makes Spritzee to really be a key part of trick room teams is the access to aroma veil. Being inmune to both taunt and encore means it will never be stopped to clicking trick room, among this, Spritzee takes on 2 of the top 3 in the tier with a powerful Moonblast STAB. Spritzee has access to both utility and offensive options which makes its sets very versatile, utility wise we have Ally Switch, Helping Hand, Encore and After You yo name a few. Offensively it has Dazzling Gleam in case it wanted a spread attack aswell as access to Nasty Plot and good coverage on Psychic and Thunderbolt. To summarize, Spritzee has proved to have much great things to support this on the rise archetype.


Mudbray - BOJACK THE HORSEMAN Another great option for Trick Room teams, high base attack of 100, turns Mudbray into a very dangerous Pokémon under the effects of Trick Room with High Horsepower, also Heavy Slam works great for Fairy Type like other Spitzee and Cottonee and you have Rock Slide to hit Flying types for super effective damage. But Mudbray not only works as an orfensive attack under trick room, it has great bulk which coupled with stamina makes of mudbray a phenomenal tank for many teams with utility tools such as roar or stealth rocks.

Now im going to talk about some Pokémon that were equally good during these months in the current metagame and some that lowered their performance.


Dewpider - An always good Pokémon that now has been explored rewarding whoever give it a try much success. Dewpider had a lot of usage and win rate during this last tournament, incredible support for the teams, Speed Control with Sticky Web/Icy Wind and probability of burning the opponent with Scald made Dewpider have a niche in the current metagame. Also to mention it's great SpA allowing it to hit pretty hard.


Gastly - An incredible Pokémon that at the beginning of metagame provided a lot of help to teams thanks to its high Special Attack stat and strong stab moves like Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb but in this last tournament Gastly has had several issues, winning very few times and contributing very little to the new teams of the current metagame. The teams has gotten bulkier and that's something gastly doesn't apreciate since if it can't get the ohko it probably means it dies the second after. Another issue Gastly is facing is it wants to fit both its stabs, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Substitute, Protect and Sucker Punch al in one set which is impossible. Gastly is still a very threatning pokemon but the times when its fear reign were happening have long passed.


Omanyte - MINI LORD HELIX isn't as comfy as it was in this metagame; Omanyte had a very important niche as a late-game sweeper/mid-game breaker at the beginning of metagame with its access to the Shell Smash and Muddy Water combo but as the meta is developing, Trick Room rennaisance and Grookey made Omanyte use decrease a little bit and it's winrate to decreawe significantly, but Omanyte still in Tier 2! Atleast for now.

Onix - The rock snake has been better days tbh... Dethroned by Tyrunt as a Rock- type Dragon Dance user? Tyrunt better Attack base stat aswell as better resistances gives it the push over Onix. Totally replaced by Mudbray as the preferred Ground- type? This one is easier, as said above Mudbray has become an staple in a lot of teams; excessive use of Trick Room, Intimidate Users, Grookey, and a large list of water types having all of them big usage made Onix be worse in the actual metagame, still a good option yeah, but as metagame progress, Onix has become more of a more niche option replaced by other similars.


Scraggy - Talking about Intimidate Users, Scraggy had an excellent participation and winrate during this tournament, due to fake out and Intimidate which made Scraggy quite a big part of Trick Room and tailwind teams alike, the speed tier it has makes it easy to put in both archetypes without needing to think much about it. Even with the lack of Close Combat Scraggy can hit super hard with its STABs.


Porygon - Porygon is a very good option in several teams, a really good set of abilities on Download and Trace and great moves like Ally Switch, Recover, Tri Attack, Ice Beam, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt and Trick Room caused to increase Porygon use during this tournament, with large success. Altho not everything are good news as the number of Fighting-Type Pokémon that are viable hinders the possibilities of Porygon, despite this Porygon is still a very good option due to its excellent coverage.

HAIL - With sun out of this metagame, Hail has become a viable option, but why has this happened? Let's talk about the Pokémon that take advantage of Hail, that should give big information about why this happened:

Snover - Snover Typing is such a great one, Ice- Grass- type gives it so many great resistances. In addition to the excellent ability it also has a great speed for Trick Room teams and general good bulk which made Snover up in this metagame. To extend on it, Snover movepool has helped on its succes; having access to a powerful Blizzard and Giga Drain is amazing but when you combinate that with other options such as Weather Ball, Ice Shard or Water Pulse (which allows it to hit Ponyta) made Snover shine a lot lately.

Amaura - The little dinosaur out of the metagame? Many things caused Amaura to be replaced by Snover, one of them was the weakness x4 to Fighting- and Steel- Type and weak to Grookey's priority, this means it's gonna have less times to click its attacks. Additionally the speed is still suboptimal so it doesn't have that edge over snover.


Cubchoo - Cute and dangerous little bear, Cubchoo ability and speed make a very good Pokémon for hail teams, cubchoo has a good set of stats which helps him to run mixed allowing to hit for supereffective damage possible checks like Pawniard with Superpower or Ponyta with Surf aswell as hitting very hard with Blizzard this makes Cubchoo an excellent attacker for the team.


Sandshrew-Alola - Same case as Amaura, weakness x4 to the Fighting-Type but shrew also has a x4 weakness to Fire- type whichmakes Sandshrew-Alola not stand out as much as Cubchoo, additionally it doesn't have the access to Blizzard due to it's very low SpA base stat but is still an ok option thanks to the ability and moves like Aurora Veil, Triple Axel, Iron Head, Rock Slide, Earthquake and Ice Shard just harder to pull off.



Forum Happenings

An incredible finals in the most recent Doubles LC Tournament hosted by our Tier Leader jcbc.
The tournament ended with some pretty decent games from Actuarily and yovan33321, you can see the games here (G1 G2).

In addition, I'd like to welcome Actuarily to the Council of Doubles LC aswell as congratulating him again for winning the tour.

Also, we have new art for Doubles LC metagame!


Art by Albatr0ss (AMAZING JOB)

NOW... Some nominations for the VR slate of this month. (the nominations with a * are council nominations without a post) (We will vote on every ranked pokemon still but will be putting special thought on these nominations). Additionally we will revote to order each tier internally so it shows which mons are better.

- :abra: Abra from T3 to T2
- :porygon: Porygon from T3 to T2
- :dewpider: Dewpider from T4 to T3
- :magnemite: Magnemite from T4 to T3
- :frillish: Frillish from T4 to T3
- :spritzee: Spitzee from T4 to T3/T2
- :mudbray: Mudbray from T4 to T3/T2
- :growlithe: Growlithe from T5 to T4
- :woobat: Woobat from T5 to T4
- :solosis: Solosis from UR to T5
- :skrelp: Skrelp from UR to T4
- :cubchoo: Cubchoo from UR to T5
- :aron: Aron from UR to T5
- :gastly: Gastly from T2 to T3
- :chinchou: Chinchou from T3 to T4
- :squirtle: Squirtle from T3 to T4
- :sandshrew-alola: Sandshrew-Alola from T5 to UR
- :morelull: Morelull from UR to T5*
- :cufant: Cufant from UR to T5*


We're currently compiling all the information received from the survey that was sent to every participant of the recent tournament, expect a post about it soon.

It's pretty possible that a suspect test happens soon so expect news regarding this.

We're gonna revamp the role compendium to have a better look and showcase better the info it has.

This is everything that happened in the month of May / June, Thank you very much people for supporting this great metagame, we're very happy of the support that the tier has been getting and so the council members alongside the tier leader will be supporting the community with new tournaments, updated resources, more Council Minutes and whatever it's needed to keep developing the metagame.
See ya later
 
jcbc is now the new Doubles LC Tier Leader!

I know, he was already the Tier Leader in the shadows hahaha but I felt like it was time to put the titles where they belong.

I asumed this role long time ago when the tier was pretty dead, since it was a pseudo-tier only played in Levi´s LC tour (LPL). As probably the oldest member in this tier I enjoyed so much preparing and building the basics of the tier with the help of the rest of the council and specially, of course, with our new Leader, I felt like it was necesary for the tier to have some presence with at least, a VR, a role compendium, maybe some samples and a Speed Tier list.

I´m going to be honest here, that was enough for me I never expected to work anymore in a non official tier, but then jcbc came and he keeped doing stuff and working to improve the tier. He has made the tier something big, important and with such a wide visibility to the point of getting a successful tour some weeks ago. Something I could not have done on my own, and I´m really grateful for it!

That is why I felt like , although he already was the real Leader, to step down and give him the role for everything he has done. Of course I will still keep around, helping and looking forwards to the next tour, probably the next LPL.

Hope to see you all in the next tour, facing each other and once again congratulations jcbc !
 
Howdy, with the conclusion of the doubles lc tournament, the metagame shifted a lot so we decided that it’s time for a VR Update!

Rises

:mudbray: Mudbray (from t4 to t2) - Mudbray saw significant success in the tournament and was due for a rise. It’s high base stats, good offensive typing, and useful abilities make it one of the biggest threats in the current metagame.

:scraggy: Scraggy (from t3 to t2) - While Scraggy is overshadowed by Mienfoo as a more offensive fighting- type, it has enough differentiating qualities to make it a better fit for some teams, namely intimidate and being a dark type. Scraggy is the premier intimidate user in a metagame dominated by physical attackers, justifying its rise to tier 2.

:porygon: Porygon (from t3 to t2) - The versatility of Porygon’s movesets as well as the rise of Trick Room makes Porygon one of the most useful Pokémon in the metagame, and absolutely tier 2 worthy.

:abra: Abra (from t3 to t2) - Abra’s fantastic combination of speed, abilities and power has made it one of the premier offensive threats and earned it a spot in tier 2.

:spritzee: Spritzee (from t4 to t3) - Spritzee was successfully used in the tournament as the most reliable Trick Room setter. It’s also arguably the best fairy attacker - which is an extremely important typing when two Pokémon in tier 1 are fairy weak, cementing it’s spot in tier 3.

:dewpider: Dewpider (from t4 to t3) - Dewpider is the premier sticky web setter and with the number of threats that rely on their speed, setting webs can win a game. Combining this with its great ability doubling the power of its water moves, Dewpider is a great fit in tier 3.

:Magnemite: Magnemite (from t4 to t3) - Magnemite’s stellar special attack combined with good abilities and its uncheckable combination of STABs make it a force to be reckoned with. It’s the best electric attacker, and this has caused it to rise to tier 3.

:Tyrunt: Tyrunt (from t4 to t3) - Tyrunt has proved itself to be one of the most devastating set-up sweepers in the meta. Once it gets off a dragon dance there’s only a handful of Pokémon that can check it, making it a clear tier 3.

:frillish: Frillish (from t4 to t3) - Frillish is another reason for the rise of Trick Room. It’s great special bulk combined with will-o-wisp and strength sap make it extremely hard to remove, causing it to set-up Trick Room again and again; alternatively it can be a very fearsome tr abuser itself by spamming Water Spout. Absolutely worthy of Tier 3.

:woobat: Woobat (from t5 to t4) - Woobat’s dreaded grassy seed CM set has been known to win games virtually on its own. If the opponent doesn’t bring an adequate check, nothing is more punishing. This has caused it to rise to tier 4.

:growlithe: Growlithe (from t5 to t4) - If you’re looking for a support fire type, growlithe is your dog! The combination of intimidate, will-o-wisp, snarl and some solid defensive stats make it worthy of Tier 4.

:ponyta-galar: Ponyta-Galar (from t5 to t4) - Ponyta-galar’s niche of fast heal pulse combined with good stats and a solid movepool have caused it to rise to tier 4. It unfortunately is still overshadowed by its base form.

Drops

:gastly: Gastly (from t2 to t3) - While Gastly on paper looks very similar to Abra, its lower speed tier and 4MSS that doesn't let it pick on everything it wants to really sets it back. This has dropped it from t2 to t3.

:onix: Onix (from t2 to t3) - Onix hasn’t seen as much success lately. It has rained on its parade since the LPL days where Onix was a threat; being overshadowed by set-up sweepers such as Tyrunt or overall better pokemons that share it's typing like Mudbray. This has caused it to drop to tier 3.

:chinchou: Chinchou (from t3 to t4) - Chinchou’s good typing and useful abilities aren’t enough to make up for its lack of good attacking stats. It also suffers from being a water type that can't check Ponyta reliably due to it's weakness to Ground-type moves. As such it has dropped to tier 4.

:squirtle: Squirtle (from t3 to t4) - There’s a lot of fake out users in doubles little cup, and while squirtle does learn follow me, this hasn’t been enough to overcome its passivity. It’s been crowded out into tier 4, this also comes from the rise of other water types and the state of the metagame where squirtle doesn't really fit any of the popular team archetypes.

:togepi: Togepi (from t4 to t5) - Similar to squirtle, Togepi’s inability to do much other than redirect attacks has caused it to drop to tier 5. Not to mention that is overshadowed as a defensive Fairy type by Spritzee.

:impidimp: Impidimp (from t5 to UR) - Impidimp hasn’t seen usage as of lately. While on paper it’s unique typing, access to Fake Out as well to a large list of annoyer/utility moves such as Thunder Wave, Fake Tears and Taunt to name a few and having a good ability in prankster should make it useful, it hasn’t seen results in practice and this has fallen off the VR.

:Mareanie: Mareanie (from t5 to UR) - The times where Mareanie was in a good portion of the teams have long passed; Mareabie isn’t the best water- type right now, there's so many competition for the slot with pokemons like Staryu, Frillish, Shellos or the newly ranked Skrelp (which shares its typing and also has Toxic Spikes) this in conuuntion with it’s overall passivity has caused it to drop to UR.

:sandshrew-alola: Sandshrew-Alola (from t5 to UR) - Sandshrew-Alola is no longer the premier slush rusher in the metagame, with that spot now belonging to Cubchoo. Despite Sandshrew-a still having some cool things on its favour, the x4 weakness to two of the best types of the metagame in fighting- and fire- type alongside a questionable movepool has resulted in sandshrew-a no longer having a place on the VR.

New Additions

:Skrelp: Skrelp (ranked into t4) - Skrelp has emerged as a great t-spikes setter with good offenses thanks to its great ability in adaptability. Skrelp stats make it excel as both an excellent attacker which can abuse TR perfectly, and can also sponge hits. This has resulted in its rise to tier 4.

:solosis: Solosis (ranked into t5) - Solosis has found a niche as a TR setter and attacker, additionally it has the ability to set and take advantage of psychic terrain. It’s great special attack makes it very threatening, but it’s movepool despite being good enough limits it to tier 5, relying on hitting Thunder to be able to breal through Vullaby and Pawniard can sometimes be a heart-stopping thing.

:cufant: Cufant (ranked into t5) - Cufant’s sheer force ability combined with its good movepool formed by Power Whip to hit Water types, Play Rough to hit Vullaby and the many fighting types we have, a strong stab on iron head and access to ground-/rock- coverage if wanted. All this gets cemented with solid attacking and defensive stats which have earned it a spot in tier 5.

:aron: Aron (ranked into t5) - Aron has the highest base attack of any Pokémon with the combo of rock head & head smash, meaning it’s able to dish out heavy damage while taking nothing in recoil. This plus the rise in TR let’s it fit in tier 5.

:cubchoo: Cubchoo (ranked into t5) - Cubchoo has replaced Sandshrew-Alola as the premier slush rush attacker. It can run mixed sets, and has a good movepool with access to superpower and surf, letting it hit typical hail counters like Pawniard or Ponyta hard. Hail is not without it’s drawbacks, so despite all that Cubchoo has going for it, it’s in tier 5 for now.

:morelull: Morelull (ranked into t5) - While usually Foongus is a better option to pick up, Morelull does have a niche over it as a more offensive spore user. It’s higher special attack, access to a sort of recovery in strength sap and coveted move in moonblast allow it to put more pressure on the opponent than Foongus, enough to put it in tier 5.

This is every change that is happening to the VR, additionally we held an additional vote to reorganise the tiers internly to show which mons are better than others from the same tier for all the tiers, you can check the results on the VR post. As always here's some more topics to discuss:

:woobat: is Woobat on the rise?

:Spritzee: Should Spritzee be in tier 2?

What are the best checks/counters to trick room?

Any pokemon that you deem is not being given the treatment it deserves? Let us know!

Thanks for tuning in, we hope to have more for you soon!
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
So right after the doubles LC cup finished, i sent a survey through smogon VM's to get feedback on the state of the tier, and out of the 61 possible replies we got 41 responses, so ty so much those who took your time to reply we apreciate it a lot.
I'm going to discuss the responses to some of the questions that were in the survey giving some thought about the answer and possible future actions if there were to happen. I will also empathize on what percentage of the answers were given by players that had their first experience with the tier and how many not.


Was this tour your first experience with the tier?
Screenshot_20210623-164542_Chrome.jpg

From the 41 responses, 24 secured that this tournament was their first experience with the tier while 17 had already played the metagame. This can be seen as people willing to try out the tier.

How much did you liked the tier when you signed for the tour on a scale of 1-10?
Screenshot_20210623-164614_Chrome.jpg

From the 41 responses there is an average of 6.96/10 as the qualification that the tier would have recieved before the tour.
From there, we can separate responses from having had experience with the tier and not. Which results on an average of 8.1/10 for those who already played before and an average of 6.2/10 for those who were giving their first steps into the tier.

And now that the tour is over how much would you rate the tier on a scale of 1-10?
Screenshot_20210623-164642_Chrome.jpg

From the 41 responses there is an average of 8/10 as the qualification that the tier would have recieved after the tour.
From there, we can separate responses from having had experience with the tier and not. Which results on an average of 8.59/10 for those who already played before and an average of 7.58/10 for those who were giving their first steps into the tier.
This gives us a lot of information, people seem to enjoy the tier more, getting an overall improvement on the average of 1.04 of the compilled responses. The players with already experience with the tier, stays with the same sentiment towards the tier or have gotten more apreciation with it, this reflect on the 0.49 improvement on their average. Where the people who were having their first experience with the tier ended very happy with the tier despite their initial thoughts when signing as shown on the 1.38 improvement on their average.
This are overall very good numbers that we are very happy to see.

On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?
Screenshot_20210623-164659_Chrome.jpg

From the 41 responses there is an average of 7.42/10 as the qualification that the tier would recieve on its competitiveness.
From there, we can separate responses from having had experience with the tier and not. Which results on an average of 7.53/10 for those who already played before and an average of 7.33/10 for those who were giving their first steps into the tier.

On one hand, people seemed to be very happy with the state of the metagame right now, but just to make sure we asked for specific pokemons that had a lot of success on the recent tournament or has been discussed as possibly broken by either the community, the council or both.

This is just a spoiler to help understanding the colors of the graphs that i'm about to drop.
Blue=Ok
Red=Decent
Orange=Good
Green=Excellent
Purple=Borderline Broken/needs a suspect

:mienfoo: Mienfoo :mienfoo:
20210623_164744.jpg
Mienfoo has been the king of the metagame the whole generation as is still seen as it by the community with a whopping +30 votes as an Excellent pokemon.

:ponyta: Ponyta :ponyta:
Screenshot_20210623-164810_Chrome.jpg
Ponyta has been the only pokemon that hasn't been banned that came close to giving competition as the king of the metagame to Mienfoo and the community sees it this way too as Ponyta also got a whopping +30 votes as an Excellent pokemon.

:vullaby: Vullaby :vullaby:
Screenshot_20210623-165306_Chrome.jpg
Vullaby has been the the prefered Tailwind user for quite a while already, long has been since the Cottonee everywhere days, the bulk and its useful Dark- and Flying- type made it held up to 25 votes as an Excellent pokemon.

:mudbray: Mudbray :mudbray:
20210623_164843.jpg
Mudbray has gone into a rocket this tour showing its here to be a top tier pokemon and the community recieves it this way as seen on the 21 votes as a Good pokemon and the 12 votes as an Excellent one.

:scraggy: Scraggy :scraggy:
Screenshot_20210623-165246_Chrome.jpg
Scraggy has cemented himself as the premier intimidate user this tour and the community thinks so too; thus Scraggy gets 23 votes as a Good.

:porygon: Porygon :porygon:
Screenshot_20210623-165151_Chrome.jpg
Same as Mudbray, Porygon has made the situation tricky for many teams this tour showing its here to be a top tier pokemon thanks to its huge versatility. The players gave Porygon 22 votes as a Good pokemon and the 13 votes as an Excellent one.

:omanyte: Omanyte :omanyte:
Screenshot_20210623-164907_Chrome.jpg
Omanyte kinda underperformed this tournament to the surprise of many. Lord helix faced very rough times sweeping teams with all this Trick Room and Grookey around, therefore Omanyte got 18 votes as a Good pokemon and the 8 votes as an Excellent one only.

:grookey: Grookey :grookey:
Screenshot_20210623-164940_Chrome.jpg
And here we have one of the responsible of Omanyte's fall, Grookey has seen huge usage during this tournament thanks to it ability to enable many strategies and counter many others which made it get a total of 19 votes as a Good pokemon and the 9 votes as an Excellent one, which may not be very impressive but also got 4 votes as borderline broken/needs a suspect, we don't believe Grookey is anywhere close to broken and are not going to make any actions on the grass monkey but is interesting to hear what the community thinks.

:woobat: Woobat :woobat:
Screenshot_20210623-165224_Chrome.jpg
Speaking of strategies that get enabled by Grookey; Woobat has been getting some steam late-tour and some voices rised saying the bat is busted, so we decided to add it to the survey to see what everyone thinks; with the results being only 11 votes as a Good pokemon and the 8 votes as an Excellent one, which is honestly very mediocre but it also got 5 votes as borderline broken/needs a suspect, as of this results we don't feel on the urge to taje any actions for now, but will keep an eye on this one for the future.

:rufflet: Rufflet :rufflet:
Screenshot_20210623-165003_Chrome.jpg
Last one that got into the survey was Rufflet, this pokemon has always been a controversial one; with bigger or lesser usage, every time there's a rufflet on the field you find yourself in much nee of killing it, and so the bird has been on the look-out for the council for a time now already, but this survey was the perfect opportunity to gather the opinion of the community, and we got the feedback we wanted as following with 17 votes as a Good pokemon and the 15 votes as an Excellent one, which aren't the most concerning numbers to be honest but also got 9 votes as borderline broken/needs a suspect, i think we are on a safe enough spot to permit ourselves a suspect test. Therefore, coming from the results of this survey and long discussion among the Doubles LC Council, Rufflet is going to be suspected. Expect a post regarding this soon.

On a scale of 1-10, how easy to undestand and helpful you find our resources?
Screenshot_20210623-165349_Chrome.jpg

From the 41 responses there is an average of 8.56/10 as the qualification that the tier resources would have recieved before the tour. Aditionally i got to talk with the persons that voted the 4 and the 6; they recognised me that their vote came from:
- Not checking the resources at all (the 4)
- Not understanding clearly how the tiering works with this VR method (the 6)
Even if the average is phenomenal and we are quite happy with it, we want to make everyone be able to get into the tier as easier as possible so if anyone has any question regarding them, sees a mistake on them or wants to suggest any improvement to the resources i encourage them to come directly to me or any of the other council members from any via (altho im pretty sure discord is the easier for everyone).

And this is everything, please note that just because these Pokemon were added to the survey, doesn't mean at the top does not mean they are being ignored in the present or future. The metagame will continue to evolve, there may be more surveys in the future in all likelihood, and we will continue to keep a close-eye on the metagame as it develops. If you have any questions on these graphs or the responses in general, feel free to shoot me a PM anytime. We also received lots of valuable written input when responded to the more open-ended questions and I personally have read through many of these (thankfully most were brief :psynervous:); thanks to everyone who provided input!

The council and both voltix and myself will be present to address any issues we believe deserve tiering action when appropriate! Thanks for reading and we hope that you all keep enjoying the tier the same way we will try to keep it as likeable for everyone! :psyglad:
 
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:rufflet: Doubles LC is suspecting Rufflet! :rufflet:

Welcome to our second suspect of SS LC Doubles! Today is the turn of our little eagle. Rufflet has always been a dominant threat in the meta, being able to oneshot a good portion of the metagame.
The idea of this suspect has been rounding the mind of the council for a while but thanks to the survey we made, we has several opinions of players demanding for a Rufflet suspect since they believed it was too much for the tier.
Rufflet was previously banned from SS LC thanks to his raw power and lack of checks. We all know singles and doubles formats are quite different but in this case, are those same arguments that made him ban worthy in singles, which brings the bird to this suspect.
Thanks to his ability Hustle, an splendid and spammeable Flying STAB on Brave Bird, and some decent and powerful coverage, Rufflet is the main physical attacker in the tier. In the doubles format, it also gain access to a fantastic tool in Tailwind, which allows him to gain enough speed to sweep entire teams.
He also has a respectable natural bulk of 70/50/50 which is pretty decent for a Pokemon that hits that hard.
One of the main problems with Rufflet is the lack of decent counters. He lost his main counter in Corsola-Galar, which was able to deal with him easily. Right now, the best answers are things like Pawniard, SturdyJuice users like Onix, Tyrunt, Magnemite and Chinchou, probably this last one being the most reliable since the rest can be severaly punished by Close Combat. Also some bulky Pokemon like Spritzee and Vullaby are able to tank a hit and return it back. The rest of the metagame is most likely destined to die from an accurate Brave Bird.
On the other hand, not everything is shine and gold on the bird's side. We have talked before about his decent bulk, but the reality hits different. Due to the recoil of his main STAB, this Pokemon can be easily chipped during the game. If u choose to run it with Eviolite, his recovery is almost null and can be heavily punished. If u, by the contrary, choose the Berry Juice set, it can improve the number of attacks he is able to do, but can be obliterated easily by a powerful attack due to the lack of extra bulk. Either way, he definely lacks durability through the game. Unlike the singles format, he is not able to get that huge amount of kills guaranteed with no possible answer from the opponent, he suffers from an important focus of both opposite Pokemon.
Rufflet also suffers with the metagame speed controls, to be effective he really need to outspeed the opponent, if not he just end up recieving to much damage. Opposite ways of speed control alike, Trick Room or Tailwind orientated teams can make things difficult for him.
To summarize things, Rufflet is a superb Pokemon which main function is to take as many kills as possible before dying, getting 2 or 3 kills usually is enough to carry through a game. Rufflet is a dominant force that needs to be taken into account in any teambuilding. But despite his good offensive presence, can be chipped and killed give the correct focus.

The suspect process works as follows:
The roomtours that will take place on the Little Cup chat room on Saturday 3 of July, Sunday 4 of July, Saturday 10 of July and Sunday 11 of July, Saturday 17 of July and Sunday 18 of July at 14:00 GMT-4/18:00 GMT+0/20:00 GMT+2 will be suspect tours. The winners of these tours will be getting the rights to vote on Rufflet alongside council members who have reqs inmediatly aswell as everyone who made it to the top 8 of the recently finished Tournament we had.


You can also join our discord to have discussion about it!

Hope to see you there and of course pass by to leave your thoughts if you have any!
 
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Kipkluif

Liever Kips leverworst
is a Tiering Contributor
Okay so rufflets typing is defensively mediocre which for me has caused me trouble to get it into games safely, and as with the other birds I always wanna click tailwind and brave bird at the same time, because I struggle to find the time to fire off both. Rufflet is decently bulky and all, but in the more offensive doubles meta it isn't as easy to keep on the field despite this. I think it has a very poor matchup vs trick room and will struggle to stay alive while making serious progress due to lack of priority and, once again, useful resists. Outside of tailwind, it either speedties or is slower than all T1 pokémon that all have tools to cripple or severely hurt it. Of course it has great strengths, but these downsides are too heavy for me to make it metagame warping or outright broken.

Onto Mienfoo, essentially it has too many things to play around no matter what team you bring, and the impact of a successful tech move is too high of a reward for the nonexistential risk it takes to bring it, as even with half of it's base kit it's insanely reliable to make progress during a game. This combination of reliable options like Fake out, Knock Off, Close Combat etc. combined with more niche but no less impactful mixups like Taunt, Ally Switch, Coaching, Feint etc. makes it too good in Doubles LC for me.
 

jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Ok so i felt like replying (specially because i told you i'd do it if you posted this on smogon) so here i go.

Before actually getting into the thing i want to say that i enjoyed reading your post, and shile i dont necessarily agree with everything you said, i think you made some interesting points. I'm going to split your post in three parts two of them being about rufflet and then i'll reply to the Mienfoo part as that's a totally different point of discussion and isn't related to the current suspect.
Okay so rufflets typing is defensively mediocre which for me has caused me trouble to get it into games safely, and as with the other birds I always wanna click tailwind and brave bird at the same time, because I struggle to find the time to fire off both. Rufflet is decently bulky and all, but in the more offensive doubles meta it isn't as easy to keep on the field despite this.
While this can be found true, Rufflet can find himself switchin in pretty safely against things like Grookey, Foongus, Mudbray and Scraggy (all of which are top used pokemons right now) of course all this can be very "theorymoning" because there is going to be a million scenarios during a battle to say "X happens everytime". But i think the problem with Rufflet doesn't come as in how many hits or times it can switch-in (which should happen a fair amount of times during the game if played correctly) but as in can your team stay win on a more than possible scenario where you lost 1-2 mons atleast to rufflet or if you lost so much momentum trying to kill rufflet for it to not be overbearing. It is true, and we mention it on the suspect post that it sometimes lacks the longevity without berry juice to last enlugh during the games but it trully doesn't have to last long if it did what it's mean to, make you lose momentum/a couple mons.

I think it has a very poor matchup vs trick room and will struggle to stay alive while making serious progress due to lack of priority and, once again, useful resists. Outside of tailwind, it either speedties or is slower than all T1 pokémon that all have tools to cripple or severely hurt it. Of course it has great strengths, but these downsides are too heavy for me to make it metagame warping or outright broken.
I will agree that rufflet has troubles if it can't get himself on the advantage of speed control due to the speed points it hits but with the raw power it has can this really not happen? Let me put a couple examples:

- Scenario 1 (vs Trick Room):
You have a team composed by Magnemite, Dewpider, Mienfoo, Rufflet, Grookey and Ponyta
Your opponnent has your TR sample (gothita, foongus, spritzee, mudbray, porygon, mienfoo)
What does stop me from just leading Mienfoo+Rufflet and either completely disabling you from setting up TR or getting a kill? Goth+Spritzee lead wont, Spritzee+Mudbray/Porygon means you lose one of both (assuming Rufflet doesnt miss) and i could keep going but i thinl you get my point.

- Scenario 2 (vs another TW based team):
I'll use the same team myself, but i will use Z strats sample now as example, this comes more down to who can get the lead correctly but if you get the Mienfoo+Ponyta from him correctly you can find yourself with Webs up which is phenomenal as you'll now will be outspeeding pretty much all the team.

And i understand that this is also theorying about what goes on in a game and what not but i'm sure you see the point i'm trying to set here. Of course Rufflet is a top offensive threat but it's not like others such as Mudbray in TR, Ponyta or Abra that you can "ignore" once or twice or allow you to outplay them. Rufflet demands you to do something with it everytime it touches the field. Another thing you mention is that it gets a hard time getting himself on the advantage position of the speed control which i would find true if this was singles but there's literally a teammate there always.

Another point i think we are missing here is how we should be checking Rufflet, trully there's no such thing, you just hope it doesn't have Tailwind up or have one of the limited "defensive checks" it has (Onix, Pawniard, Magnemite and Chinchou) and then things that can eat one and pray for a crit or that it doesnt hit the next Brave Bird like Mudbray or Sprizee (reallistically this are the only 2 lol).

I know i am personally very edged towards the ban side here but is because i've been playing this tier the whole generation and Rufflet had its times of more usage and lesser but it always find its ways to unbalance games through one shotting two or three pokemons or just making u lose momentum because you double focused it (because usually nothing kills it in once) on the protect. I would love to listen you back and hear others too but i would like to keep this discussion smooth.

Onto Mienfoo, essentially it has too many things to play around no matter what team you bring, and the impact of a successful tech move is too high of a reward for the nonexistential risk it takes to bring it, as even with half of it's base kit it's insanely reliable to make progress during a game. This combination of reliable options like Fake out, Knock Off, Close Combat etc. combined with more niche but no less impactful mixups like Taunt, Ally Switch, Coaching, Feint etc. makes it too good in Doubles LC for me.
Regarding this, i struggle to think of a non-Mienfoo metagame to be fully honest with you, losing the major glue of the tier kinda sucks; and no, this isn't me pulling up a "Vullaby glues SS LC keep it on the tier" i actually think Mienfoo isn't broken just a sooo good pokemon that it can fit so many styles, which i don't find bad as per se. I could change my mind lf course if proven the opposite but i don't see any action on Mienfoo happening any time soon.
 
My amateur opinion on Rufflet in LC Doubles:

One of the best considered birds in the doubles tier is a force to be reckoned with. When I was first introduced into the tier, I decided to take a sample team and see if it will be fun. I quite liked the team and tried to make other ones based on the sample: https://pokepast.es/57121130e054e450

Coming into LC doubles and seeing the cute bird there, I was excited and this webs sample really helped me to get used to Rufflet in the game. It’s a pretty simple team and has brought me quite a few victories in the room tours as well as the LC Doubles Tournament.

Using it for the first time was cool and when I checked all of its moves/abilities I was intrigued. The moveset it has is good. A lot of checks and can u-turn into safely to other mons. You can run tailwind and defog on it, but I preferred to keep just defog, because I tried setting tailwind with it and ended up losing it in the first few turns. It would be best to set up tailwind and then try switch in to Rufflet. It has bulk and a good ph.attack stat but without berry juice it can’t survive for long. Rocks do damage it enough as well, I haven’t tried boots because berry juice does a lot more. I’ve tried using life orb and the choice items which proved to be very good but one ice beam and it was gone.

The speed is same as Vull’s mediocre and it can get checked by Onix easily. While Ruffi has fighting moves to counter Onix, still without tailwind active, it can be taken down pretty easy. That is unless you choice it. Rufflet’s defenses are not that great which is why eviolite is always a good option for every mon. His ph.attack stat is great along with all three abilities. I’ve tried all three abilities with different movesets and one thing is for certain, if you don’t run berry juice Rufflet, it is out of the game faster than expected.

All in all, it has a cute design, good hp and attack stat, speed could have been better and it’s a very strong mon who just needs the berry juice and is not undefeated. I don’t think it’s that broken or annoying like…our other favourite birdie we all love and we are re-suspecting now. I would say NOT BAN for Rufflet.
 

jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
The Rufflet Suspect test finished and all the votes were submitted leaving the following results.
Screenshot_20210723-022012_Sheets.jpg
Therefore as it didn't reach the 60% ban ratop needed Rufflet will stay unbanned. I want to remark tho that due to the high percentage obtained, we will keep an eye on Rufflet just to be safe but won't be doing any action on him any time soon unless it shows to pop off.

Thanks everyone who participated trying to get the reqs and those who voted.

I'm excited to see what people cook on the new multi tier league and as always expect us to keep working to improve the tier for everyone.
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
The rufflet suspect ended as i thought it would and even tho i'm not happy with the result as i was pro-ban (talking biased here and just on my opinion).
Well so, i've been playing quite a bit here and there and experimenting with the tier so i'll drop some thoughts i have rn about some mons that are on the rise or are unexplored. I personally think the meta is going to change in the near future (i could be wrong). I'm not going to follow any special order when talking about pokemons so don't get any thought when you see a mon or another im just talking about them as they come to my mind.


:vullaby:Vullaby - Vullaby have seen better times in my opinion and while is still a very good pokemon and a glue for a lot of teams, the way the metagame is developing makes it so unappealing for it to be safe. Electric-, Rock-, Ice- and Fairy- type pokemons are all on the rise so is harder to maintain it healthy through the course of the match. But not only that for me to say this; i know what i'm about to say may be a hot take but i don't think Tailwind is needed in every team anymore. Obviusly it's a very good tool to have on certain teams but the metagame got way bulkier than it used to do so you can actually get around on a match by not clicking/not having Tailwind.
Additionally Vullaby felt off passive and is just a machine of clicking Tailwind in a lot of games and then proceed to not do anything else until you are in the need of Tailwind again. Not everything is bad, is still a very good pokemon that can check a lot of the metagame as the spammed Grookey, Cottonee, Mudbray and Dewpider.

:pawniard:Pawniard - With Vullaby slowly falling off as the primary Knock Off spammer, Pawniard is liking how the metagame is moving, it not only excels with its kit but its Steel- type part is also loving all this Fairy- and Psychic- types on the rise. Another thing that complements what i think will be the rise in usage of Pawniard is that priority is getting more and more of an important place in the metagame where fast breakers are hard to outspeed.


:magnemite:Magnemite - Magnemite for some reason never really stepped up as a top breaker on the metagame. Despite its amazing typing, it always got low usage but i must admit that lately ive been tearing every match i used it on apart. This lil steely cyclop hits so hard my lord. The set i've been using:
Magnemite @ Choice Specs / Magnet
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Electroweb
Magnemite gets huge damage loads when given a damage-boosting item. And before saying anything, yes, SturyJuice Magnemite is still amazing and will keep being so, is just that this new set happens to be very good in the current metagame (this comes from Electric- types loving the current metagame state, we'll talk later about another one) Calcs moment tho:

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 124 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 13-16 (52 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16)

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 16-21 (76.1 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (16, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 21)

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 26-32 (108.3 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 32)

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 36 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Mudbray: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16)

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Onix: 30-36 (150 - 180%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 32, 32, 32, 32, 32, 32, 32, 32, 36)

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Koffing: 18-22 (85.7 - 104.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 22)

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 26-32 (96.2 - 118.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 32)

236+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 15-18 (71.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)

(It OHKO all water types)

:croagunk:Croagunk - I've always been a fan of the croak as i think it has a lot of potential, but i want to talk about a specific set ive been using lately:
Croagunk @ Eviolite
Ability: Dry Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 108 Atk / 116 Def / 28 SpA / 196 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fake Out
- Vacuum Wave
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
This set excels on the support it gives through the perma-priority it has while also being very bulky, Croagunk has hella more sets to explore but i just wanted to throw this one out as is the one ive been using lately with consistent success.

:drifloon:Drifloon - Drifloon is not used for some reason when the ability it has to disturb teams either by annoying them with status and what not or being a sweeper is excellent. I think it's very fitting on the current mmetagame and i think people should give it a try.

:lickitung:Lickitung - I've been hyping up this pokemon for the last week and for good reasons! The natural bulk it has makes it incredible fat without even needing the invest; this in combination with the phenomenal coverage it has on both the physical and special side makes it a brilliant attacker.
To make a bigger showcase of the tung here's a replay of a match i had vs acehunter the other day where lickitung made a huge chunk to several pokemon while still tanking a lot of hits here and there while even picking up some ko's.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doubleslc-1381357246
These are the two sets i use:
Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 156 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Zen Headbutt
- Body Slam
- Protect

or

Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Def / 196 SpA / 156 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Protect


:duskull:Duskull - I gotta be honest here i started trying Duskull out due to it getting used in VGC LC (yes this exist) lol. So i said, hey maybe there's something i don't know. I didn't discovered anything i didn't knew as per se, but i found out Duskull is actually very good for tr teams, the natural bulk it has and the typing helps it a lot. Checking all fighting types and poison types is phenomenal. And the best thing of it is that it can trigger opponents and disable it's protect's so the counterplay during the trick room turns is lower. Here's the set i've been using:
Duskull @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 196 Def / 116 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Psychic
- Imprison / Helping Hand

:bronzor:Bronzor - Very similar to the case of Duskull, Bronzor provides very good resistances and can trigger opponents really easy with Imprison (so long as you don't run into Taunt Koffing as i did in the DLC Cup semis (pain.).
Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 60 HP / 228 Def / 4 SpA / 148 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ally Switch
- Imprison
- Psychic
- Protect

:elekid:Elekid - I honestly don't know why we didn't tried this one out earlier but with the speed it has it's actually a very good pokemon and while it has it's downsides and i cant see it getting to be a top tier pokemon for the time being but it has some qualities i wanted to point out.
I've been using this set right here:
Elekid @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
EVs: 12 Atk / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Protect
- Ice Punch
It begins with the ability making it inmune to sleep moves due to its ability which is already huge because you can switch on spore from foongus. But not only that, Thunderbolt deals great damage overall and the spike in usage of a lot of different water types and the birds still being so prominent makes it really apreciated. Here are some damage showcase:

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Staryu: 23-31 (109.5 - 147.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (23, 23, 23, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 31)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Omanyte: 23-31 (109.5 - 147.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (23, 23, 23, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 31)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 52 HP / 20 SpD Eviolite Dewpider: 18-26 (85.7 - 123.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (18, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 26)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Frillish: 18-26 (78.2 - 113%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (18, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 26)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Skrelp: 23-31 (100 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (23, 23, 23, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 31)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 18-23 (75 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 23)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 228 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Shellos: 18-26 (66.6 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (18, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 26)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 16)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rufflet: 26-34 (113 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (26, 26, 26, 26, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 34)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 9-13 (42.8 - 61.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (9, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13)

And some may say, ok it can switch into Spore but what can it do back? And the answer comes into the excellent coverage move it hs on Psychic. It allows it to take some KO's on pokemons it would generally not be able to touch at all or killwith it when Thunderbolt can't (Mienfoo or Koffing case). Here are some damage showcase:

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Psychic vs. 124 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (13, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Psychic vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Koffing: 18-23 (85.7 - 109.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (18, 18, 18, 18, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 23)

236 SpA Life Orb Elekid Psychic vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 16-21 (76.1 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (16, 16, 16, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 21)

And last but not least we have the ground types which usually laugh at Elekid badly but the don't do it that badly when ice punch comes to action, of course this move is one that you are usually not going to be using a lot due to the power you're losing but it's a great option to have fo those annoying ground types. It also help vs the few grass types of the tier. Ice Punch damange showcase:

12 Atk Life Orb Elekid Ice Punch vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Onix: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 13)

12 Atk Life Orb Elekid Ice Punch vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Mudbray: 10-13 (41.6 - 54.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 13)

12 Atk Life Orb Elekid Ice Punch vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Grookey: 13-16 (59 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Possible damage amounts: (13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 16)

12 Atk Life Orb Elekid Ice Punch vs. 36 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Cottonee: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 13)

To resume this, Elekid is a very good wallbreaker that can go savage mode vs certain teams and that i would recommend trying, it needs some support next to it but on proper builded teams it can provide a lot.

This concludes my recent thoughts on the state of the tier and some mons i think are underated but this isn't all i wanted to talk about.
It's sad to announce that lalden will be leaving the council, we apreciate a lot that you've come this very long path with us friend i hope that you success with life and of course you will have a house in this tier any time!
On a happier side note tho, has been doing a massive amount of work for the tier, making a big load of the analysis we currently have (to check them go to the VR post they are hyperlinked there), aswell as keeping activity up both of the community and the games, we think that they is also a talented player and so they will bring very good things to the tier... Without further do, i would like to welcome dnagerbadger to the council! Congratulations! :psyglad:

And now i really finished, see you all in the Doubles Multi Tier League! I'm excited to see what people do use.
 
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Kipkluif

Liever Kips leverworst
is a Tiering Contributor
I am once again eliminated from a tour (although I went 2-0), so I'm back to talk about Pokémon I used.

:grubbin: Grubbin is, in my opinion, a valid alternative as a Sticky Web setter. Dewpider has some advantages; it's Water Bubble boosted STAB makes it more threatening, it effectively resists fire, and is pretty bulky; however, Grubbin has a key advantage in it's speed, in a metagame where speed tiering is vital. This allows grubbin to get Sticky Web up more reliably in some scenarios. Grubbin's solo Bug typing also makes it less weak against Magnemite and Grookey, which can sometimes foil Dewpider's plans. Aside from this, Grubbin has access to Thunder Wave, which is something Dewpider simply can't do. It's not better, but definitely should be considered sometimes.

:Dwebble: In the current meta, hazards are pretty much never removed; it is seldom worth to spend a turn on, since the meta is pretty fast-paced and you might just die for it where you could kill something instead. Dwebble has both Stealth Rock and Spikes, which in combination with Knock Off wears enemy teams down very quickly for your teammates to clean; Equipped with a Berry Juice and Sturdy, it usually gets up at least one hazard very reliably.

:archen: In an earlier post, I said I thought Archen was bad. I was so so wrong. Archen has Tailwind and outspeeds it's bird rivals in setting it up, causing you to get the mid turn speed boost on your partner, not your opponent. In addition, it threatens these with it's rock STAB, while also OHKO'ing Tailwind competition Cottonee with Acrobatics. Head Smash recoil can activate Berry Juice and thereby power up said Acrobatics, and if you want to, you can negate Defeatist by pairing Archen with Koffing. Archen is excellent and should see more use.

I briefly touched upon it, but speed is incredibly important in the current metagame. The advantage of moving first is big; Games are short (no game took longer than 17 turns in this rounds multi tier league, with some games being as short as 7 turns), and something that lost it's eviolite is usually not surviving the next turn. The advantage of moving before your opponent to kill them before they kill you is huge, and that's why I'm surprised that this metagame has barely seen any experimentation with the easiest way to creep speed tiers: Choice Scarf. A late game cleaner with powerful moves that needs no Tailwind support to function (or beats out the opponent if both players have Tailwind up) can be valueable, and a game can be decided by it. So far, I've only experimented with Mudbray due to it's high attack stat and haha brrr Earthquakes, but I reckon there's other pokémon that could benefit from this.

That's all for now, see you all after LPL!
 

dnagerbdager

:pleading_face: whore
is a Pre-Contributor
COUNCIL MINUTES

Another week(ish), another edition of the council minutes! Presented by everyone's favorite DLC council member!

Wait I'm the one who's doing this?

Metagame Discussion

:rufflet: - First of all, we start with the suspect of Rufflet. Remember, we did a survey after the end of the doubles LC cup and with your feedback, we decided to suspect Rufflet. After the ban of Corsola-Galar, Rufflet became a huge threat due to his good movepool and his ability. It is simple, you can't check him unless you used Chinchou, Onix and that's it. Also, he can use tailwind and has good base stats, he has everything to be ban worthy, right? Well, probably but this isn't the case here. The bird remains to stay in Doubles LC. Behind his huge kill power, you can find some weakness here. Of course, we have the fact than he has 20% chance each turn to miss his move, we can't forget that and this is probably his biggest weakness. We can also talk about his typing, probably one, if this isn't the worst typing ever for a flying type. Rufflet is also one of his Pokemon who suffers to the fact that he can only have 4 moves in his moveset. Most importantly, unlike singles format, Rufflet struggles in the doubles format because he can be punished really hard and it could be difficult for him to work because of the Speed Control in Doubles. With that, Rufflet stays in Doubles LC but the percentage of ban votes went down to 44,44% so he will stays on the radar for a while.

:staryu: - After minimal usage in Doubles LC Cup, Staryu has shown some great results in the Doubles Multi-Tier Tour (try saying that 5 times fast), proving that it was always an amazing Pokemon. The speed tier it has, coupled with its great coverage and decent bulk makes it to be a force to be recognised.

:spritzee: &:porygon: - The Trick Room debate keeps going on and while some users have stepped and are calling Trick Room overated, there's still a major force of Trick Room supporter, from the council we still are discussing on it's major pick (Spritzee vs Porygon, who's better?) And while Spritzee has one thing going for it (resisting Fighting- type) in front of Porygon which is weak to it; Porygon deals a lot more raw damage to neutral targets and is harder to revenge kill due to its access to recovery. We of course will keep hearing what the playerbase thinks.

Ally Switch - There has been considerable discussion around Ally Switch's ability to create 50/50s out of thin air, and as a result the council will be looking into it.

:grookey: - Grookey's combination of Fake Out, strong priority on Grassy Glide, and Knock Off has pushed it to the forefront of the metagame due to the utility it offers against a vast majority of teams. The big amount of water- types and cheesy strategies like Woobat makes it a very easy pokemon to add on many teams.

:vullaby: - The bird has recently fallen in priority, a more offensive metagame where there's no room for long and passive turns ended making Vullaby feel sometimes passive. Usually a just one time clicking Tailwind tool on a metagame where you can find yourself facing Sticky Webs or Trick Room which disables it for the most of it isn't very appealing either. Its still a great Pokemon nonetheless as the typing is still excellent and Knock Off utility is key.

:drilbur: & :bulbasaur: - After the Drought (and Vulpix) ban it looked rough for weather teams to have its time, but there are some users that still believe in sun and are using manual versions of it with good results (shoutout to z strats for beating JC with manual sun). It also seems people have remembered that other weather besides sun exists, and as a result Rain, Sand and Hail are starting to pick up a bit, with Bulbasaur and Drilbur at the forefront of this.

Forum Happenings
  • Currently we are featured on Multi Tier League which is at the end of its Round 2 right now.
  • The Role Compendium has been revamped for easier understanding.
  • We have updated our Sample Teams!
  • We're currently working on a new resource called "Checks and Counters" stay tuned for it!
  • We also have on the list of projects another resource; "Good Cores" will make its debut as a resource of the tier at some point during September!
  • We are going to run another slate of the Viability Rankings early August so if you would like an specific pokemon to move up or down in tiers this is the moment to make those nominations!!!
  • We are currently Grammar Checking and Quality Controlling all the analysis (they are hyperlinked to the pokemons) we have and working to expand them so every ranked pokemon has one.
We are happy with how things are going, and glad to see new people trying out our tier and specially happy that they like it; feel free to make any nomination, or just post about the tier any time, we will gladly hear you!!!

This is not a Forum Happening but LPL (Levi's Premier League) is back and we have a slot in there so if you want to give yourself a try in a teamtour at this tier make yourself at home and signup!!!

alright bye

edit: there was no edit
 
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Been having a lot of fun playing the tier, here's some VR noms :)


T2 -> T3
Doubles LC is a really neat tier because even the most offensive Pokemon in the format, like Staryu, can stomach a reasonable hit + chip with Eviolite, meaning they can contribute a reasonable amount of defensive utility to the team. Abra does not. Abra fucking dies to a light breeze. There are situations where Abra thrives but between Vullaby & Pawniard's usage & the amount of potential Trick Room + Tailwind in the tier, I haven't been super impressed by it. Being this frail and only tying with Pony and Staryu really sucks, too.


T3 -> T2
Staryu is extremely fast, has a nearly unresisted Scald, and has good enough coverage and bulk to do other things. Tying & threatening the best Pokemon in the tier while taking not much from its moves is reason enough for me to use Staryu, anyways. Grookey is the only viable resist that doesn't get hit by Psychic or TBolt, and that has a very high probability of getting burnt between Scald and Ponyta's Flame Body over the course of a game. Without opposing speed control, a decently played Staryu will probably take over, and if they have Tailwind or Trick Room up, it's still able to hold its own with a great typing and strong Scalds.


T3 -> T2
Grookey is good. I don't personally like the 'mon a ton but its high usage and high winrate in the early rounds of Multitier should speak for itself. Fake Out is valuable, it forms a nice core with Ponyta to check Staryu & provide it with some recovery, and strong, STAB priority is great in an offensive metagame such as this.


T2 -> T3
Omanyte really, really hates the rise in Staryu and Grookey usage - Foonguss can't even redirect the latter. It's an alright mon - the wonders of the Water-Type in this tier do a lot for it - but mostly just dislikes the current metagame trends. If I'm dedicating a lot of support to a setup mon, I would rather use Woobat most of the time.


spritz should move up but I think everyone knows that at this point lol
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey hey hey your favourite tier leader here, it's been already a month and a half since our last vr update and the metagame showed quite the shift since from all the playing we got from current multi tier league tour and the friendlies, so we decided that it’s time for a VR Update!

Rises

:staryu: Staryu (rises from t3 to t2) - Staryu has been popping off lately with some massive winrate on the ongoing tour. The speed and the typing it has makes it so self efficient and has very little counterplay to it. Water+electric+psychic coverage allows it to hit almost the entire tier for super effective damage which in addition to its bulk to stomach hits and how easy it is to fit it on most team.

:spritzee: Spritzee (rises from t3 to t2) - After a very long debate that has been on going for a while, Spritzee sees itself rising to t2. The inmense bulk and the resistances it has makes it check a good portion of the metagame. It's one of the strongest face of Trick Room teams but can function very well out of them too.

:woobat: Woobat (rises from t4 to t3) - Woobat keeps catching the attention of thr playerbase more and more and showing how it can be a real nuissance to kill if you don't have taunt or strong hitters for super effective damage.

:snover: Snover (rises from t5 to t4) - Snover is one of the reasons as to why hail got so popular, giving it one very bulky pokemon that resist water- types is key, but not only this, you can see snover being used in TR teams with success.

Drops

:vullaby: Vullaby (dropped from t1 to t2) - Vullaby is no better than others like Rufflet or Staryu by any means right now, it fall to the passive lands and while the typing and utility on knock off is still amazing, it has hard times doing more than using tailwind.

:abra: Abra (dropped from t2 to t3) - Abra is still a very good attacker with load of damage outputs but unlike others of the 19 speed such as Staryu and Ponyta it can't live a hit from almost anyone which makes it hard to make it work.

:omanyte: Omanyte (dropped from t2 to t3) - Omanyte hates that Grookey and Staryu are almost everywhere and has very hard times setting up because Foongus can't even redirect its hits if there's another grass type of the field.

:pawniard: Pawniard (dropped from t2 to t3) - Pawniard is still very useful but being x4 to fighting- type and x2 to Fire- and Ground- type is not it on rhe current state of the metagame as it has a hard time surviving throughout the match. The lackluster speed doesn't help either.

:cottonee: Cottonee (dropped from t3 to t4) - Same as Vullaby, cottonee passivity makes it be very to not just setup one tailwind and die. It also sucks that is a grass type that has a hard time fitting its grass move and overall there are better grass pokemons to use such as Grookey or Foongus.

:onix: Onix (dropped from t3 to t5) - The days of the Onix are long to go. Now seen as a very bad pokemon by a lot of people, onix is saved from the UR lands for the ability it has to check Rufflet and Ponyta.

:anorith: Anorith (dropped from t5 to UR) - Anorith has seen better days, fitting it on rain teams isn't worth it because it still lacks the raw power. It needs swords dance but it can't fit it unless you run no protect.

New Additions

:Elekid: Elekid (ranked into t5) - 20 Speed very high damage output with Thunderbolt and good coverage on Psychic, Ice Punch and Electroweb on a metagame this fast phazed is very good.

:diglett: Diglett (ranked into t5) - Another 20 speed pokemon that can be used to trap all the 19 speed pokemons on certain teams.

:bulbasaur: Bulbasaur (ranked into t5) - manual sun is back and so is bulbasaur. Not as potent as when Vulpix was around but is still good enough to justify it being ranked, it still does what it used to do. Sleep something and hit as hard as u can until you die.

This is every change that is happening to the VR, as always here's some more topics to discuss:

May :ponyta: possibly worth a suspect due to the overcentralization that its getting around it?

Is :staryu: worth the t1?

Perhaps :Grookey: is worth the t2?

Is Ally Switch worth the suspect over others such as Ponyta, Staryu or others?

Any pokemon/strategy that you deem is not being given the treatment it deserves? Let us know!

Thanks for tuning in, we hope to have more for you soon.
 

:ponyta: Doubles LC is suspecting the Ponyta! :ponyta:
After the last LPL we have had a lot of activity around starting with our first ever individual tour which was followed with a Rufflet suspect test (which ended with Rufflet not being banned altho it went close to), this brought a new trend to the tier in having the fastest and most offensive possible team. This showcased the best in the Multi Tier Doubles League tournament where for the first time ever since the beginning of the generation, Ponyta surpassed Mienfoo in usage.

From there, we started having a very close eye on this pokemon since a lot of games came down to who got more turns with Ponyta and/or who won the Ponyta speed tie. We didn't put inmediate action on it since we wanted to see if it really was unmanagable or if on the opposite it was just a top 1 pokemon but it had ways around it.

Now we got to that point where Ponyta is going to be on the board for the playerbase to decide on it. The inmense BST it has allowing it to be one of the fastest pokemon on the tier while also having a considerable bulk is one of the factors which pushes to this decision but is not the only one; Fire- type STAB by itself is phenomenal but that coupled with Ground- type coverage combo allows it to dodge pokemon who would otherwise check it such as Chinchou, your own Ponyta or Mareanie. There's little downsides to using Ponyta to be honest, is hard to mention some, Intimidate pokemons usually are a great countermeasure for it but Scraggy gets Will-o-Wisped which makes it completely null when it tries to strike back with some damage and Growlithe which would be the other option doesn't really have anything to hit Ponyta while the latter can just hit you for super effective damage with High Horsepower; this means Intimidate support just allows it to deal less overall damage but in a long run, Ponyta has ways around it. Another way is Staryu, this pokemon has popped off since the offensive fast teams started, and one of the biggest reasons is that it not only ties with Ponyta but it also can survive any hits from it while actually making Ponyta suffer from the water- type STAB attacks. Another downside for Ponyta is that it has a hard way fitting Protect on the kit as it needs the ground- fire- attack and then Morning Sun and Will-o-Wisp are super important which means is hard to reposition with it... but is this really a problem when u can just kill them before they attack you?

To summarize, Ponyta is a very strong Pokemon that has gotten the whole tier centralized around it and that has made games fustrating to play due to how hard is to not build with it and to play around it.

The suspect process works as follows:
The roomtours on Friday 10 of September, Saturday 11 of September, Sunday 12 of September, Friday 17 of September, Saturday 18 of September and Sunday 19 of September at 14:00 GMT-4/18:00 GMT+0/20:00 GMT+2 will be suspect tours. The winners of these tours will be getting a vote on Ponyta alongside council members who have reqs inmediatly aswell as everyone who got atleast 1 win (past r1 of the tour) or more than 1 game played during the last Doubles Multi Tier League tournament. Will be adding people that got atleast one win in the on going LPL too.


You can also join our discord to have discussion about it! (additionally we will need your discord for when the time of voting comes so join still!).

Hope to see you there and of course pass by to leave your thoughts if you have any!
 

jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
The Ponyta Suspect test finished and all the votes were submitted leaving the following results.

Screenshot_20210924-190709_Sheets.jpg

Therefore as it did reach the 60% ban ratop needed Ponyta will be banned. This will certainly shake up the metagame a lot, probably on a good way as builds will not be as centralized over the horse.

Tagging Kris and Marty to implement this.

Thanks everyone who participated trying to get the reqs and those who voted.

I'm excited to see what people cook on the metagame and as always expect us to keep working to improve the tier for everyone. If anyone comes with anything on mind feel free to drop your thoughts on a post. Good discussion posts are always more than welcomed.
 
Some VR noms after the Pony Ban:

:Rufflet: 2 -> 1: Ponyta threatening burns was one of the biggest Rufflet counters, and despite this Rufflet was likely tier 1 anyways before the ban. The combination of tailwind plus offensive pressure is very difficult to deal with if Rufflet catches you out of position.

:Foongus: 2 -> 1: Foongus is the biggest roadblock for TR teams, and even functions well outside of it thanks to ragepowder. With Ponyta gone Foongus only gets better as the remaining fire types aren’t able to threaten OHKO’s the same way.

:Pawniard: 3 ->2: Another mon that is much better off with Pony gone, and a lot of the remaining fire types have intimidate as their ability, giving Pawniard a much better place in the meta.
 

jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Here to make some VR noms after the Pony Ban:

Rises

-:Rufflet:Rufflet from t2 to t1: I'm actually shocked about this but despite of (what was a lot of people fear) Rufflet feels more managable now than it was with Ponyta around; having less restrictive builds around the latter make the checks to the bird easier to fit into teams. But even with this, Rufflet is a stronghold to be recognised and is still a very easy to slap into teams and powerful pokemon. I personally believe it's still to much for the tier and it actually creates havoc (always that it doesn't miss) but between intimidates, electrics and speed control it might actually be just a top tier pokemon we will see with time.

-:Foongus:Foongus from t2 to t1: Foongus is more than happy with the recent ban of Ponyta, having one of the best checks to it gone makes this already pokemon rise up to the tops. There's also the fact that it's one of the best ways to shut down TR based teams thanks to it's low natural speed, bulk, typing sleep and poor ways to hit it for SE dmg that TR has.

-:Pawniard:Pawniard from t3 to t2: Another one that comes out as a big winner from the Ponyta ban, Pawniard has more free times to spread those STAB knock off's around. Another reason of this rise up is the rise of other offensive threats such as Abra and Gastly (i'll talk about them in a bit) since it checks them pretty well.

-:gastly:Gastly from t3 to t2: I wasn't sold the first few days after Pony ban about gastly getting better but now i can say Gastly is a huge threat; with the typing, amazing SpA and huge coverage it covers it's middling speed. Thanks to its offensive pressure and qualities it can create powerful offensive cores such as Gastbra or Gastbray which are both very powerful.

-:abra:Abra from t3 to t2: Foongus check, Mienfoo, huge Speed and SpA, can go through all it's checks, checks almost all of the other tier 2 pokemon... Yea Abra is such a strong pokemon, very easy to fit into teams and one of its weak points that was speed ties with Ponyta (who is now gone) and Staryu (who isn't as prominent) and not being able to ohko them wont be a problem anymore.

-:cottonee:Cottonee from t4 to t3: Ponyta is gone and Cottonee can live a little big less depressed now. Prankster Utility is super well received (always that you don't face Koffing).

-:archen:Archen from t4 to t3: An alrrady powerful pokemon before, it doesn't have to worry about Fast WoW from Pony. Additionally the changes on the metagame directing towards more birds and grass types overall is something that archen apreciates since it beats all of those.

-:chinchou:Chinchou from t4 to t3: Finally we can use the best Rufflet check without it getting blastered by Ponyta ground coverage or overloaded by both of them. Now i dont know how good will end up being since Grass types are also on the rise but i foreseen good times for Chinchou.

-:Elekid:Elekid from t5 to t3: Natural 20 Speed with great SpA, inmune to sleep that can be used as speed control? Where do i sign? Elekid is phenomenal and despite the meta change it's still a very powerful pick. I honestly debated myself between t3 and t2 for this one but i expect a rise on chinchou, the rise of grass types and TR made me hold myself and put t3 for now.

-:solosis:Solosis from t5 to t4: Arguably the only Foongus answer in TR, Solosis in not only an amazing damage dealer but it also can both enable himself and their teammates with TR and psychic terrain making Fake Out not a problem while also being inmune to Spore thanks to Overcoat. All this qualities are what pushes Solosis a step above other TR abusers such as Cufant, Morellul and Aron to me.

-:salandit:Salandit from t5 to t4:Salandit kit is very great suitted for how the metagame is developing being able to both deal decent damage and support with the large range of utility it can provide aswell to quad resisting Grass- type attacks and x2 resisting Fighting- type ones.

Drops

-:vullaby:Vullaby from t2 to t3: Vullaby feels not good enough to be ranked on the same levels as the likes of Spritzee, Koffing or Scraggy. It is true that the utility it can provide is great but it ends up being passive and doesn't do much on during games.

-:staryu:Staryu from t2 to t3: Ponyta is not around anymore so there isn't the need of using it that much anymore. It's still an amazing pokemon but the metagame changes makes it hard for water types and Staryu isn't an exception.

-:dewpider:Dewpider from t3 to t4: The water downfall keeps going but this time is paired with webs not being that reliable as they lost one of its primary abusers on ponyta.

-:woobat:Woobat from t3 to t4: Woobat had its shining 2 weeks but it fall down since, meta acknowledged it and then it dissapeared its both to hard to put into work and to niche. Not saying it wont work but its cheesy af.

-:frillish:Frillish from t3 to t4: More water type falling down, frillish biggest thing was how great it did against Ponyta+Staryu teams. Now that its not a thing anymore it falls down a bit in priority.

-:shellos-east:Shellos from t4 to t5: Grass types rises hits shellos too, an already hard to fit in teams pokemon gets to it that water types are not that prominent therefore it's niche as an water inmunity for the field pokemon goes down too making shellos be very passive in games.

-:onix:Onix from t5 to UR: Onix is just bad, it's heavily outclassed in all the rolls it can have by others that are above him in the ranks.

-:natu:Natu from t5 to UR: screens niche is not big enough for it to count and there are better psychic hitters than natu on the tier.

-:carvanha:Carvanha from t5 to UR: Too hard to fit on builds as a cleaner/breaker for how niche and hard to make it put in work it is, pecially with the rise of Grass- types such as Foongus, Grookey and Cottonee who doesn't allow it to click the STAB's it wants to click.

-:farfetchFarfetch'd-Galar from t5 to UR: Final Gambit niche is not good enough to guarantee a spot in the VR and it doesn't have anything outside of that, that when compared to other fighting- types such as Mienfoo, Scraggy or Croagunk makes you decide to use it.

New Additions

-:litten:Litten from UR to t4: Our friendship with the fast WoW fire-type aka Ponyta has ended. It's time for us to meet our new friend Litten, different to Ponyta litten is more of an enabler thanks to Intimidate, Fake Out and Parting Shot. It has decent enoigh bulk to check a lot of things. I honestly wanted to nom it to t3 because i believe it's better than t4 but for now here we are.

-:oddish:Oddish from UR to t5: First of the 3 sun abusers im going to talk about, and yes manual sun is a thing that people should try. To begin with oddish is a better abuser than bulbasaur for the most of it, the only downside to it is that is a bit slower than bulbasaur but it gets covered by better SpA and bulk but what specially cuts off the mark to me is that after a Growth boost nothing that is not resisted can switch in to its attacks (steel types only) and even then those take a million from Solar Beam.
+2 236 SpA Oddish Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 15)
This is without taking into the formula the fire types that you will most likely have (sun archetype). Oddish acts as a great sweeper for sun if catched underprepared.

-:helioptile:Helioptile from UR to t5: Helioptile different to Oddish works more as a nuke thanks to solar power. It can also open up opportunities for the rest of their teammates thanks to Electroweb and unlike elekid or Magnemite it can easily bypass the two best Electric- type checks on Chinchou and Mudbray.
192 SpA Life Orb Solar Power Helioptile Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Mudbray in Sun: 23-29 (92 - 116%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, 29)
The biggest issue with Helio would be Foongus but i dont think that a sun team should had problems with Foongus at all.

-:charmander:Charmander from UR to t5: Similar to Helioptile, Charmander boost himself up abusing sun with Solar Power to boost up its Fire- type STAB attacks to be a great nuke.

-:Duskull:Duskull from UR to t5: And now to move to another type of archetype, Duskull has been something ive been looking towards for already some time but ive actually been using it and it puts into mad work. It has amazing natural bulk that allows it to recieve attacks without dying even from the top mons. But not only that, it has great tools to be a TR setter and blocker if wanted to (imprison) and a great utility pokemon with things such as grudge imprison or helping hand among others. It's also a very cool pokemon to have in TR since it has coverage to hit Foongus for SE.

Some pokemons ive been toying with but i have no footage or enough evidences of them being good (mentioning them in case anyone wants to try them or to say anything about them): :baltoy:, :elgyem:, :bronzor:, :magby:, :larvesta:, :dwebble:

This would summ up my nominations hope it was a good read. I will also use this post to announce that soon we are going to release a bunch of news so expect a post/posts in the near future. I also encourage everyone that has any nomination for the VR to do them now as soon we will be conducting another slate for the VR.
 

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