Metagame Doubles Little Cup

Kipkluif

Liever Kips leverworst
is a Tiering Contributor
Alright time to do this then

:goldeen: Goldeen UR > t5
Goldeen is nothing special, and will probably never rise above t5. However, if you really need an electric immunity for your bird, it's a decent choice thanks to it's 17 speed tier, access to Muddy Water, Icy Wind and Knock Off, giving it plenty of utility in one neat role compressing package. It's weakness to grass is not as big of a deal when paired with a bird either, not to mention that it has access to Poison Jab or Megahorn if you really can't deal with those.

:morelull: Morelull t5 > UR
I've never seen Morelull do anything, and I don't see it doing anything in a Foongus-heavy metagame. What does this pokémon do again?

:scraggy: Scraggy t2 > t1
Scraggy is so easy to build with. It's by far the best Intimidate user, has many of the qualities Mienfoo has, everyone knows what it does. The reason it's on par with the best is it's ability to stay in on birds if it cuts their attack and STAB on Knock Off wearing down targets like Foongus faster. Speaking of Foongus, Taunt Scraggy deals with it very effectively and turns the tables on a would-be fight check.

On that note, I don't feel like Foongus should rise to t1. Taunt users expose it's passive nature, it's typing is good but not without common weaknesses which hinder the defensive role it has to play. On top of that, Overcoat ignores Spore and Rage powder, which in total makes too many ifs and buts for me to say this pokémon is highly effective in every game, which is what tier 1 should be.
 

jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
I'm going to take myself a moment to reply to this last post. As i think it brings some cool discussion with it.

:morelull: Morelull t5 > UR
I've never seen Morelull do anything, and I don't see it doing anything in a Foongus-heavy metagame. What does this pokémon do again?
Morellul while more niche than Foongus who fits in pretty much every team, has something that Foongus doesn't and that's the offensive pressure. If you are looking for a more offensive spore user under TR you can go towards Morellul. Another downside to Morellul is that you don't get Rage Powder support but outside of that Morellul has access to all of Pollen Puff, Sludge Bomb, Spore and STAB Giga Drain and Moonblast. Stat wise Morellul has better defense, special defense and special attack but worse hp so it balances out and the same speed. So at the end is all about whether you prefer the damage output of Morellul or you would rather have the redirection support of Foongus. If i were to move somewhere Morellul it would personally be to t4 but i think t5 is fine for it. Actuarily knows more about this pokemon since he used it more than i did.

On that note, I don't feel like Foongus should rise to t1. Taunt users expose it's passive nature, it's typing is good but not without common weaknesses which hinder the defensive role it has to play. On top of that, Overcoat ignores Spore and Rage powder, which in total makes too many ifs and buts for me to say this pokémon is highly effective in every game, which is what tier 1 should be.
About the topic you bring about Foongus i think you make some wrong statements a couple times. You start speaking about how Taunt is a good move vs Foongus but in reality there aren't many mons that know the move and can afford it on their kits. Biggest ones would be Scraggy and Mienfoo (and the last one has better options imo) and even then getting it knocked is usually better. Using a turn to just taunt it is usually not very worth. The worse part where i think you are wrong is when you say "which in total makes too many ifs and buts for me to say this pokémon is highly effective in every game, which is what tier 1 should be." One of those ifs (taunt) is not common enough to be considered so, then you talk about overcoat (only vullaby and solosis) one would rather click tailwind, knock or brave bird anyways since it's a natural counter to Foongus due to its typing. But there are two huge ifs for Vullaby and those are:
1- Vullaby is much harder to fit into teams than other birds due to its passivity.
2- you are bringing an "if" scenario where vullaby gets to switch in into the spore as a reasoning for foongus to not put into work. And Rage Powder situations should never happen since it means that you are sacking your Foongus which is never ideal.
About solosis which is the other Overcoat user correct that's a good counter but again we go back to the point 2 of the reasoning about Vullaby.
Overall Foongus puts to sleep AND annoys the opponent with redirection mindgames 99%of the timea so to me, yes Foongus makes it to the cut of being the top of the cream.

:scraggy: Scraggy t2 > t1
Scraggy is so easy to build with. It's by far the best Intimidate user, has many of the qualities Mienfoo has, everyone knows what it does. The reason it's on par with the best is it's ability to stay in on birds if it cuts their attack and STAB on Knock Off wearing down targets like Foongus faster.
About Scraggy it's true tht is very easy to build with but is also (to me) not better than other pokemon that are on t2 like Koffing or Spritzee. The fact that it's the best intimidate user doesn't push it up. It's also super one dimensional in both spread and set where as Mienfoo has many. Another key point to me is the very middling speed tier that makes it very easy to outspeed and kill. You also mention being able to stay into the birds but reallisticly you only can stay in vs Vullaby.
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey, here to bring a load of news!
The council and myself have been debating the direction and path that we wanted for the tier for this past weeks. And we are now settled on what we want to do so this is going to be the first of two posts to talk about all the decisions we have made and also to talk about what's to come.

So without further do let me start. First of everything we have been debating and we all agree when saying that is the best for the tier on having a both active and strong in knowledge council is the key for the future of the tier. Therefore we have made some changes over it (all of this changes were talked with all parts and have been agreed for the majority of us).
First change would be the departure of luisin from the council; we are very grateful for all you have done for the tier and i'm sure you will stay playing when you can (if your busy life allows you to do so). I'm personally wishing you the best and hope you keep enjoying the tier. (Pasalo padre pendejo <3).
This is not everything of course, if you are in the Doubles LC discord (if you don't here you have a link) you may have noticed this already but we have had some additions to the council. They been playing this tier in the shadows for a long time now and have been great doubles players overall. Being winners of the multi-tier league tournament i would like to welcome both JRL and Tenzai to the council, i'm sure they will bring awesome takes to the discussions and excellent help to keep improving the tier.
We are not done yet with the council changes but this 2 changes that are to come are big so i want to take my time for both of them. Voltix is stepping down from the co-leader position. Honestly just thank you bro 2 years ago you were almost the only player that was excited for this tier and you made me enjoy it too and i'm pretty sure you made a lot more people do the same. I only have great words for you and i could honestly drop a 2k words essay about why i'm so thankful for all you have done for the tier and for how good of a friend you are. But i don't think we need those, thanks again for everything and for being next to me helping me in all you could to make this great tier go to the point it is right now. Of course i know you will keep doing your best from a council perspective (voltix will keep being council member) but we both know its the best for how busy you are that the co-leader position is not for you anymore.
And now for the last big announcement for the council changes, i want to start saying that as of lately i've been more compromised with my irl and thus i don't have the time to run the tier alone (no this is not me dropping out of the TL position). So i've been thinking about this for a long time and is now the perfect time now that voltix isn't co-leader anymore to do it. He has been helping the tier since he got his feet on it, doing an insane amount of work and investing as much time as myself to make the tier great. He's such a great player and a good person and honestly i couldn't be more proud of getting to work next to him, without further do, i'm so glad to announce that Acehunter1 is the new co-leader for Doubles LC, i'm sure he will bring excellent things to the tier, congratulations fam! Let's rock it and keep making the tier grow together.

This is not all the news we had of course, we are also going to do one last VR slate before the BDSP games drop.

Voting on all the pokemons but putting special discussion and debate on ghe following ones that were nominated by people (These nominations don't make pokemons have a confirmed rise or drop they can still don't move if the council think so that way):

:rufflet: Rufflet 2->1
:foongus: Foongus 2->1
:scraggy: Scraggy 2->1
:staryu: Staryu 2->3
:vullaby: Vullaby 2->3
:abra: Abra 3->2
:dewpider: Dewpider 3->4
:frillish: Frillish 3->4
:gastly: Gastly 3->2
:pawniard: Pawniard 3->2
:archen: Archen 4->3
:chinchou: Chinchou 4->3
:cottonee: Cottonee 4->3
:shellos-east: Shellos 4->5
:carvanha: Carvanha 5->UR
:elekid: Elekid 5->3
:farfetch Farfetch'd Galar 5->UR
:morelull: Morelull 5->UR
:natu: Natu 5->UR
:onix: Onix 5->UR
:salandit: Salandit 5->4
:solosis: Solosis 5->4
:litten: Litten UR->4
:oddish: Oddish UR->5
:charmander: Charmander UR->5
:helioptile: Helioptile UR->5
:duskull: Duskull UR->5
:goldeen: Goldeen UR->5

We are also going to start a discord event soon where some of the council members will be going over this last LPL season on a video analyzing some of the highlights of the season and talking a bit about the metagame; if this gets good feedback or is liked by the community tho we may do this a usual and record some council talk videos!

And up to this point goes the first post of news, expect the second one at some point today!
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Part 2 of the news and announcements post, let's goo!

This time before saying the actual news i want to speak a little bit about the history of the tier throughout this gen.

We jumped into SwSh from a very chaotic metagame on SM Doubles LC (i'll speak about this one later). It was honestly such a crazy metagame, pre-home we didn't even have mienfoo! But the metagame startes to get some shape after Dynamax Clause got activated and we got Pokemon Home additions; by this time the tier was still leaded by the original Tier Leader anime sans (Elle now). By this time the only bans we had around were Swirlix, Sneasel and Swagger (those 3 were inmediatly banned when the generation started) which means all of Cutiefly, Ponyta-Kanto, Vulpix-Kanto, Vulpix-Alola and Corsola-Galar aswell as the Sleep Clause. The tier was honestly a meas and we did want to make the tier great because it had potential, so we started with a ban that was already a trouble we were carrying from SM; Vulpix-Alola was the first ban that had a vote on, "Veilwind" (Aurora Veil+Tailwind) archetypes were just so crazy good that it allowed a plethora of unkillable pokemons to exist thanks to the extra bulk for how low effort it waa to set it up. There was here a dead time without much happening around the tier. In the past, activity was at its lowest out of LPL times getting any type of activity wasn't really a possibility. We didn't have a forum thread, neither a challenge format (we had to use Doubles OU or the coded challenge format! :pikuh:) and the discord server was dead (unlike now!). So Voltix and i (mere council membera by that time) tried to push things up a bit and got Cutiefly banned right before LPL4. Cutiefly biggest thing was how annoying it was to deal with its very different amount of sets (Tailwind/webs support, Quiver Dance sweeper/bypasser and screens setter) all this in combination with its great 19 speed made it to much for the tier. And while there are some voices in the present that without Baton Pass Cutiefly wouldn't be to much it is definetly such a threat and it rightfully earned its ban. We now have the first big event that leads ua to where we are right now. Voltix got the Tier Leader position passed to him and he started working on getting things more clear for everyone. Games were more common and those led us to making a vote on both Drought ability and Sleep Clause since sun teams were reigning with supremacy and there was little to no counter; the one that slept the enemy Kanto-Ponyta first with Bulbasaur won for the most of it. But it was not enough, it wasn't until 6 months later in LPL 5 when another change occured Corsola-Galar got voted on and banned after being declared unkillable and restrictive for builds. It is after this LPL when i got the co-leader position.Wegot everything on the car and got to 200km/h then and pushed hard for the tier to resurrect (it was mostly dead outside of LPL). We then increasedthe number of council members from 3 (includong voltix and i) to 6, got our discord server pushed up and finally got it to stop being dead and then 3 months ago ofwe getting into work, we got this thread, our own challenge format in showdown and daily roomtours in the LittleCup room of Pokemon Showdown (everyday at 08:00pm gmt+2/04:00pm gmt-4). This got us to our first suspect test right before of LPL5 Drought re-suspect which ended with Vulpix-Kanto being banned since it was a better looking ban tiering wise. We had our first very competitive LPL and it was honestly exciting; by this time we had one of the best resources and most updated ones in the whole site (something to be proud of if you ask me). After this, we had our first tournament outside of LPL, Doubles LC Cup, which had very good feedback and participation; this got followed by another tournament this time it was a team tournament. Doubles multi tier league had a lot of great players in it. The next event was me getting the Tier Leader position and my first act was suspecting Rufflet but this didn't end up on a ban sincecit only got 44.44%of ban rate. Now we jump pretty much to the present with LPL7 on going and the last of our bans Ponyta-Kanto who got banned two weeka ago.

And you may be asking why am i telling you all this information that you didn't ask for. Well let me tell you, it's been a hell of a roller coaster of emotions and work to get to the current state. But we don't want to stop here so we want to announce right now our agenda for the future.
- Starting with the council revamp and the VR slate we wantes to give the tier a fresh look
- Discord server events (only the council videos are confirmed as of right now)
This are the two things that were already confirmed by the other post. Now into new info:
- We are going to have a kickoff tournament (date TBD) coming after BDSP releas. This will also have every current banned Pokemon (except Tangela, Scyther and Sneasel) free this will give us the opportunity of "testing the waters" to see what is broken and what is not.
- After this tournament we will be voting on every Pokemon (new, banned at some point and never banned ones) that the council and/or the playerbase deems worth voting on (being voted on doesn't mean it will end up banned).
- We will make a huge update of our resources after this tour and the vote of the possible broken pokemon which will happen at the same time as the release of the last of the resources we wanted to have "Good Cores".
- If it's needed we will be holding another vote 2~ weeks after the first one to make sure we won't have any broken element that makes the tier unfun or not enjoyable to play and watch.
-And all this brings us to what is our biggest project for 2022. The creation of the "Doubles LC Circuit" while this will be unofficial and won't get people any forum badge or trophy it's massive for us and we are so excited for it. This circuit will be performed as every other circuit works in smogon. A group of tournaments that will give you points and will led to a championship at the end of the year. Now, we can't share any further details since we are atil working on them but we will share them once we can.

This is all very exciting for us in charge and hope the same feeling comes from you all. As always we want the best for the tier and for you to enjoy it.

And the best way to catter this is getting your opinions so here it's the second survey of Doubles LC.
https://forms.gle/yCXfrArGFBkz6CD77 (out of the hyperlink).
This is all for now, fill out the survey it's a very short one (fill it out atill even if you are not much related to the tier! We value every opinion and new possible players are always welcomed) and hope that everyone keeps enjoying the tier we will keep working for it. Cya:psyglad:
 
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Acehunter1

Doubles LC Leader
is a Tiering Contributor
Hello hello everyone! I know the viability rankings are getting updated really soon, but I just wanted to share my personal opinion on some things before. It's been about three weeks since the Ponyta ban. jc pointed out most of the changes already, and for once, I mostly agree with him :bloblul:. So I'm just going to talk about some specific stuff I disagree with, and some subjects I've been discussing recently with other council members.

mienfoo.gif
vs
scraggy.gif

Figuring out which is overall better between Mienfoo and Scraggy has been kinda challenging for me. First of all, I think that Intimidate has been generally undervalued in LC Doubles for a long time, but at least now, it has the usage and recognition it deserves. Scraggy is by far the best Intimidate user in the tier. To me, having Intimidate already puts it at a great advantage compared to Mienfoo in my opinion. However, now with Ponyta gone and the rise in popularity of Inner Focus Mudbray, Scraggy now has less physical attackers to Intimidate, and more Pawniard usage doesn't help either. Mienfoo, on the other hand, has more offensive presence, beats Pawniard much more reliably than Scraggy does, and is more versatile in general, with its speed making it a good Taunt user and having more support options. To me, I put the two at about the same level for now, without one objectively better than the other. We shall see how the meta shifts.

staryu.gif
vs
chinchou.gif

With Ponyta gone, there has been a lot of discussion regarding the shift of power level of the water types. I have always perceived the rise of Staryu over the last few months as a response to Ponyta being omnipresent in the tier. With Ponyta gone, I think Staryu has lost its main advantage over the other water types, and is not nearly as good as before. Staryu still has its speed and awesome coverage going for it, but I think that Chinchou is now a better water type. It has a worse matchup against Mudbray than Staryu, but still beats it without opposing speed control. However, Chinchou is now so much better than Staryu against many common threats in the meta currently. First, it's in my opinion the best viable check to Rufflet, outspeeding it and resisting Brave Bird while not being weak to Close Combat. Also, with Volt Absorb, it checks Magnemite, which could give some teams more flexibility in terms of not running Mudbray as an Electric counter. Finally, Chinchou also beats other water types, mainly Staryu. Chinchou, like Staryu, also has access to Icy Wind for speed control. I think Chinchou is better than Staryu right now, but time will tell.

vullaby.gif

Friendly reminder that Vullaby was Tier 1 less than 3 months ago 0.0. I never considered Vullaby anything other than Tier 2, but I do not believe Vullaby deserves to drop to Tier 3. For sure, as it has been overshadowed by Rufflet, its passivity has been one of its main problems in Ponyta meta and now in the one after the Ponyta ban. However, I still think Vullaby has its place in Tier 2. Foongus is more prevalent now, and just having something that cannot be spored is very good. It also has access to phazing, which could be very valuable against a Trick Room matchup. Also, while Vullaby's most common set has been bulky Overcoat, I think that more offensive Vullaby sets are still underexplored. I think Vullaby, with a good defensive set but also options of more offensive sets, is still a good Tier 2 Pokemon.

abra.gif

This... I think Abra is better on paper than it is in practice, especially in a Doubles context. Here's my thought process on Abra. Strong frail attackers like Abra rely on KOing the opponent, because it is so frail it is hard for it to take a decent strength physical hit. In Doubles, you have two opposing Pokemon... it's hard to neutralize both at once. It is true that Abra doesn't have many good switch-ins right now. However, Doubles plays very differently than singles, and there is Protect. I don't think you always need "switch-ins" to everything. I feel like an attack from Abra going into a Protect is really problematic especially for frail attackers like Abra, because when it targets a Pokemon, it could waste its move into a Protect, and it exposes itself to be killed by the other opposing Pokemon on the field that it couldn't account for. Of course, Abra has its teammate too, but it has to have the good positioning. This is why I say it's much harder to make it work in practice. All of this is not considering the amount of speed control in Doubles. So yeah.
I think qsns had a good take on Abra in his last post from about two months ago. I don't think it deserves to come back to Tier 2.

This is it for me for now. The new VR is dropping soon, and I'm excited about what is yet to come for the tier! Thanks jcbc , as always, for everything you're doing for the tier. The most dedicated tier leader I know for sure, for arguably my favorite tier, and it's an honor for me to be by your side :)
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Going to reply to Ace post (ace you can add bigger versions of the pokemons if you put ss/pokemon between : to get the same effect (you miss on shinies tho) but there's no need of loading images). Now into the thing.

:ss/mienfoo: vs :ss/scraggy:
Figuring out which is overall better between Mienfoo and Scraggy has been kinda challenging for me. First of all, I think that Intimidate has been generally undervalued in LC Doubles for a long time, but at least now, it has the usage and recognition it deserves. Scraggy is by far the best Intimidate user in the tier. To me, having Intimidate already puts it at a great advantage compared to Mienfoo in my opinion. However, now with Ponyta gone and the rise in popularity of Inner Focus Mudbray, Scraggy now has less physical attackers to Intimidate, and more Pawniard usage doesn't help either. Mienfoo, on the other hand, has more offensive presence, beats Pawniard much more reliably than Scraggy does, and is more versatile in general, with its speed making it a good Taunt user and having more support options. To me, I put the two at about the same level for now, without one objectively better than the other. We shall see how the meta shifts.
Honestly i'm glad you brought this topic to the public since this has been a big point of discussion inside the council members. I openly said i rank Mienfoo higher than Scraggy still and while i do agree when you say that Intimidate is a very high value tool that has been undervalued for a very long time in the tier, i don't feel like for how the metagame is shifting is that useful. You mention Inner Focus mons as a downside to Scraggy, well Mienfoo is literally one of those and there are many others that either don't care about the flinch or the attack drop. Another breaking point that makes me go more with Mienfoo is how large is the list of utility opinions this one has where as for Scraggy the list ends with Taunt; this also happens in terms of set options Mienfoo can opt for many options and many spreads while Scraggy is very one set focused and while Dragon Dance sweeper exists is something hard to pull off and requires big support investment compared to the overall much higher offensive pressure Mienfoo inmediatly brings without any setup. Scraggy is still a very good pokemon and a the best out of all the tier 2 we have but this minor things are what when you put them together make me not think Scrag is at the same level as Foo.

:ss/staryu: vs :ss/chinchou:
With Ponyta gone, there has been a lot of discussion regarding the shift of power level of the water types. I have always perceived the rise of Staryu over the last few months as a response to Ponyta being omnipresent in the tier. With Ponyta gone, I think Staryu has lost its main advantage over the other water types, and is not nearly as good as before. Staryu still has its speed and awesome coverage going for it, but I think that Chinchou is now a better water type. It has a worse matchup against Mudbray than Staryu, but still beats it without opposing speed control. However, Chinchou is now so much better than Staryu against many common threats in the meta currently. First, it's in my opinion the best viable check to Rufflet, outspeeding it and resisting Brave Bird while not being weak to Close Combat. Also, with Volt Absorb, it checks Magnemite, which could give some teams more flexibility in terms of not running Mudbray as an Electric counter. Finally, Chinchou also beats other water types, mainly Staryu. Chinchou, like Staryu, also has access to Icy Wind for speed control. I think Chinchou is better than Staryu right now, but time will tell.
As someone that has slandered in my nominations more than half the water types of the tier i feel like i can expand what i already said in my other post here since this was a big topic on the council chat too and is something that could be interesting to debate. I personally think that you missed something important when talking about this, they do have very different roles; Staryu is more of a fast attacker that is able to spread huge amount of damages thanks to its high SpA and great coverage that allows it to hit almost all the tier for super effective damage where as Chinchou is more of a pivot pokemon that wants to not be i the frontline and be ready to fire back and/or stomach incoming attacks with it's volt switch, additionally is a great tool to have on your teams with how prominent electric- type attacks are becoming. Now the big question is which one of the two is better and i honestly would reply Staryu is the best out of the two if Rufflet didn't exist; the utility Chinchou adds to teams on keeping Rufflet at bay is enourmous and is what pushes it a step above Staryu but to me both are tier 3. Since they face very similar answer despite the very different roles they take in games.

:ss/vullaby:
Friendly reminder that Vullaby was Tier 1 less than 3 months ago 0.0. I never considered Vullaby anything other than Tier 2, but I do not believe Vullaby deserves to drop to Tier 3. For sure, as it has been overshadowed by Rufflet, its passivity has been one of its main problems in Ponyta meta and now in the one after the Ponyta ban. However, I still think Vullaby has its place in Tier 2. Foongus is more prevalent now, and just having something that cannot be spored is very good. It also has access to phazing, which could be very valuable against a Trick Room matchup. Also, while Vullaby's most common set has been bulky Overcoat, I think that more offensive Vullaby sets are still underexplored. I think Vullaby, with a good defensive set but also options of more offensive sets, is still a good Tier 2 Pokemon.
Now, this is a weird way to start speaking about a certain Pokemon. Mentioning old times is not really something i would say since meta has shifted and developed a lot; It was way more passive back then so having a way more bulky tailwind mon was more useful. But let's focus on the other points. It's true that having the inmediate check for Foongus is cool and all but Vullaby doesn't want to switch into a possible attack that would make it lose the best it has over other birds which being able to stomach almost any attack and double focus on it. That's another key point for Vullaby; Rufflet exists which is already a big downside to Vullaby since stacking typings is not something i would consider doing without major thinking if its worth it before. But other pokemon like Archen, Pawniard and already mentioned Rufflet makes it a challenge to Vullaby to fight for a spot into a team. There are big counters to it that are also very common such as the Electric types like Chinchou, Elekid and Magnemite who are on the rise but also Spritzee who murders Vullaby any die; speaking of Spritzee tho you speak about how Vullaby counters Trick Room thanks to access to phazing but i feel this statement to be false, access to phazing does absolutely nothing for it and Vullaby gets packed home by more than half the setters and abusers of room so unless you imply that it checks Foongus and this way it covers Trick Room i dont know what you meant. All this said, Vullaby is still a great option to pull up on your teams with but has competition when fighting for the spot and has many common troubles that makes it not make the cut to the other tier 2 pokemons to me.

:ss/abra:
This... I think Abra is better on paper than it is in practice, especially in a Doubles context. Here's my thought process on Abra. Strong frail attackers like Abra rely on KOing the opponent, because it is so frail it is hard for it to take a decent strength physical hit. In Doubles, you have two opposing Pokemon... it's hard to neutralize both at once. It is true that Abra doesn't have many good switch-ins right now. However, Doubles plays very differently than singles, and there is Protect. I don't think you always need "switch-ins" to everything. I feel like an attack from Abra going into a Protect is really problematic especially for frail attackers like Abra, because when it targets a Pokemon, it could waste its move into a Protect, and it exposes itself to be killed by the other opposing Pokemon on the field that it couldn't account for. Of course, Abra has its teammate too, but it has to have the good positioning. This is why I say it's much harder to make it work in practice. All of this is not considering the amount of speed control in Doubles. So yeah. I think qsns had a good take on Abra in his last post from about two months ago. I don't think it deserves to come back to Tier 2.
Abra tier discussion had some time in the council chat but not as much as the foo vs scrag and star vs chou ones, there were people pro tier 2 and people pro 3; ace is clearly pro tier 3 which is fine but as one of the biggest defenders of Abra in the tier; i'm going to give the answers to what you said from a "Abra is tier 2" perspective.
First point you bring is how it relys on getting the KO to not be slandered by physical attackers. But realisticly there are very few physical attackers that can sponge a hit and threaten it back. Mudbray is one of them, but bray is realisticly far from really threaten Abra; i'll explain myself, it needs to get in a free turn since it can't switch into it AND also have a scenario where there are no grass-, water- types or something with super effective coverage on the field to threaten the ko [something that hits from neutral damage and puts mudbray in psychic range works too(236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Mudbray: 16-19 (64 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 19)
)]. That's in the case of an eviolite mudbray, scarf mudbray (the prefered set right now by a lot of people i might say) faces the same problem where it can't switch into any of its attacks but atleast doesn't have to pay attention to what's on the field (as far as it's not a Grookey) but can then be easily scouted by a protect or if it has a sub up, it can freely attack without fear and get the trade-off sub for mudbray which is always super worth. Pawniard is of course the biggest threat for it and will always be, sucker priority brings up so many 50/50 mindgames; this is all until people realise submission exists (which is not common not the main option for the 3rd slot but it exists and wantes to mention it) but yeah pawniard is a solid check to it without any doubt, altho sometimes Pawniard has to do some magic tricks to dodge being killed by the fighting type of the opposing team and last but not least we have vullaby who i already spoke about in the post above. Here vullaby has the typing and tools to threaten it any day with it's bulk and STAB knock off and while it is true that Dazzling Gleam deals a ton of damage to it is far from enough since it's a spread. This concludes the list of physical attackers that can threaten it, a total of 3, not the biggest list if you ask me. All them are slower than Abra btw so with some chip or with help of your second pokemon you can take care of them. Your second point goes for how "if Abra throws an attack into a protect it can just die", which while true i find a little bit bullshit as an argument. This is all theorying about things that are far from what the pokemon can do and near to what the player using the pokemon is capable of or mindgames. If this was a valid way of thinking when ranking a pokemon any offensive pokemon would lose tiers for the most of it (look at Gastly, Scarf Mudbray, Grookey...). Protect being this good is precisely because of how the tier works but this won't make a pokemon worse just because "it can attack the wrong pokemon or lose the turn".
You also end your post quoting qsns who, while had all the reason to say what he said at that time, has posted speaking about a totally different metagame that was heavily influenced by a now banned pokemon in Ponyta and a lot has changed since in a way that Abra is very comfortable to mop teams around if unprepered which in combination with everything you said above makes it a very threatning pokemon for a lot of teams and very easy to compare to many if not all of the other tier 2 pokemons in quality terms. I want to add myself that Abra adds to teams huge offensive pressure and with the rise of Foongus and Gastly, less Ponyta and less Staryu Abra is very happy. Having a impossible to flinch (Inner Focus) offensive pressure that can hit as hard as Abra with higher speed than other such as Gastly, Rufflet and/or Archen is going to be great.

As ace already said, VR update is coming out very soon but i wanted to give my personal thoughts on this topics that i felt very interesing. If anyone wants to give their opinion it's greatuflly welcomed to do so.
 

Acehunter1

Doubles LC Leader
is a Tiering Contributor
I'm just going to reply to the part about Abra, since I think on the others it's pretty much cool aside from minor things.
*Edit I changed my mind

First point you bring is how it relys on getting the KO to not be slandered by physical attackers. But realisticly there are very few physical attackers that can sponge a hit and threaten it back.
Here, I am talking about how doubles is different than singles, where there are two Pokemon on the field, so Abra cannot count only on OHKOing the opposing Pokemon like it can in singles. I'm not talking about tanking Abra's hit to retaliate.

This concludes the list of physical attackers that can threaten it, a total of 3, not the biggest list if you ask me. All them are slower than Abra btw so with some chip or with help of your second pokemon you can take care of them.
Currently, every physical attacker on the VR can OHKO Abra, so it is threatened by many more than 3 physical attackers. You can say some of those are greatly threatened by Abra too, and I would agree, but that goes to the next point. Also, you mention Grookey many times as Abra's teammate, but Grookey also is one of the physical attacker that theoretically threatens Abra the most.

Your second point goes for how "if Abra throws an attack into a protect it can just die", which while true i find a little bit bullshit as an argument.
This is again talking about how Abra can't count on KOing the opponent to stay safe in doubles compared to singles. Protect is just something else Abra has to worry about, and in doubles, a mispredict can be much more problematic for it due to its frailty. There's also the speed control problem, especially Trick Room, which hurts Abra a lot. Anyway, I'm not saying Abra isn't good, but I think that Abra is much better on paper than in practice, and thus isn't worthy of Tier 2 currently.

Another breaking point that makes me go more with Mienfoo is how large is the list of utility opinions this one has where as for Scraggy the list ends with Taunt
Onto Mienfoo vs Scraggy. In terms of comparing utility moves, Mienfoo has Feint, Ally Switch, and U-Turn (and faster Fake Out/Taunt/Quick Guard outside of speed control; Baton Pass doesn't count), while Scraggy has Roar. But as utility, Scraggy has Intimidate, which is something that Mienfoo can never dream of having.

Mienfoo can opt for many options and many spreads while Scraggy is very one set focused and while Dragon Dance sweeper exists is something hard to pull off and requires big support investment compared to the overall much higher offensive pressure Mienfoo inmediatly brings without any setup
I don't think the fact that Scraggy has only one set is a disadvantage. It shouldn't aspire to apply as much offensive pressure as Mienfoo either. Scraggy fills its role very well, and comparing its set to some of Mienfoo's best sets, I think both have merits, depending on what you're looking for for the team.
 
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Acehunter1

Doubles LC Leader
is a Tiering Contributor
Hello everyone, Ace here, and this is my first time bringing to you a VR update! A lot of things have happened since the last slate. Ponyta has been banned about a month ago, which has caused a big change in the meta. Also, LPL is now over. There was some tough competition with many new and returning players, and it was very fun to play in and to watch! Also, congratulations to Actuarily for being the Doubles LC MVP of the tournament!
Aside of all the fun and games, LPL also gave us a first idea of what the meta now looks like, without Ponyta. This is going to be a long one, as we have a whooping 36 rises and drops to discuss. Disclaimer, there will be many mentions of Ponyta, so I hope it won't feel too repetitive. Anyway, let's just jump right into it!

RISES

:rufflet:Rufflet (t2 to t1) - Since it was suspected more than two months ago, Rufflet has continued proving itself as one of the strongest physical attackers in the metagame. With Ponyta being banned, Rufflet became even stronger, since it's one less threat that outspeeds it, and it doesn't have to worry about crippling burns anymore. The Ponyta ban is leading to meta changes that make place for other Rufflet checks such as Chinchou or Pawniard, but Rufflet is still arguably the best offensive Pokemon in the tier currently, and makes it to Tier 1.

:foongus:Foongus (t2 to t1) - Foongus has always had its place among the top Pokemon in the tier, whether it be for redirection support or for checking/abusing Trick Room. With one of its main threats, Ponyta, out of the tier, Foongus has a much easier time redirecting attacks, since it has to worry about one less fast, super-effective coverage that would negate its redirection attempt. This, coupled with its great bulk and Spore, is what pushes Foongus to Tier 1.

:gastly:Gastly (t3 to t2) - Gastly, sitting at 18 speed, really appreciates to no longer have to worry about the best Pokemon in the tier outspeeding it and threatening to OHKO it anymore. With the Ponyta ban, it has been able to better showcase its many perks, such as its strong special attacks, great coverage, spread attack options to ignore redirection and Fake Out immunity. With its ability to threaten many of the current best Pokemon in the tier, such as Mienfoo, Rufflet, Grookey and Spritzee, it comes back to Tier 2.

:abra:Abra (t3 to t2) - Abra benefits from the Ponyta ban about the same way as Gastly does. Not having to worry about speed ties with Ponyta is nice, and it also boasts a Fake Out immunity on its own with Inner Focus. The great offensive pressure it brings, as well as its ability to threaten the ever-present Fighting types and some rising stars, like the aforementioned Gastly and Foongus, pushes it back into Tier 2.

:pawniard:Pawniard (t3 to t2) - With the rise of both Abra and Gastly, Pawniard's rise back to Tier 2 is natural, as it is arguably the best check to both. That's not the only reason, though. Pawniard isn't threatened by Ponyta's burns and strong super-effective attacks anymore, and the increasing competition Mienfoo faces with Scraggy benefits it even further, since it can abuse the latter's Intimidate with Defiant. Soft-checking Rufflet and having a good matchup against Trick Room is an added bonus.

:grookey:Grookey (t3 to t2) - Even though Grookey partnered well with Ponyta, it is still one of Grookey's main checks gone. Grookey's Grassy Glide threatens the still common Water types in the tier, as well as Abra. Grookey is also currently the best check to Mudbray, especially Scarf Mudbray which has considerably increased in popularity. It also retains its good support capacity with Fake Out, Knock Off, Taunt, and activating Grassy Seeds, and makes it to Tier 2.

:elekid:Elekid (t5 to t3) - Buried deep in Tier 5 in the last VR, Elekid's increase in popularity originally came from its ability to outspeed both Ponyta and Staryu and its fast speed control with Electroweb. It also is a good option against Flying types like Rufflet and boasts an immunity to Foongus' Spore. Its many qualities push Elekid to Tier 3.

:chinchou:Chinchou (t4 to t3) - Originally outclassed by Staryu as a Water type for its better matchup against Ponyta, Chinchou is much more comfortable in the current meta. It is still one of the best checks to Rufflet, since it resists Brave Bird and isn't weak to Close Combat. It also beats opposing Water types like Staryu and walls fellow Electric type Magnemite with Volt Absorb. With the combination of offensive and defensive utility it provides, Chinchou makes it back to Tier 3.

:archen:Archen (t4 to t3) - Archen, while being more frail than fellow birds Rufflet and Vullaby, has the advantage of beating both by resisting their Brave Birds with its Rock typing and threatening them with strong spread STAB in Rock Slide. It can also run an all-out attacker set with Head Smash and Acrobatics, hitting extremely hard. With Koffing and Intimidate available to help with not getting Defeatist active, it moves up to Tier 3 as a strong offensive presence with access to speed control in Tailwind.

:cottonee:Cottonee (t4 to t3) - Cottonee has been on a steady decline for a while now, but with Ponyta now gone, it now has more freedom to use its priority support moves without constantly being threatened to be OHKOed by it. While it lacks offensive presence with its lackluster 37 base Special Attack, it can pride itself in being the fastest Tailwind setter in the tier as well as having other support options such as Knock Off, Taunt and Encore. While its Prankster is not always effective, due to it not affecting Dark types and being neutralized by Koffing, it's still a major tool for the many Pokemon that can benefit from priority speed control, such as Mudbray. Therefore, Cottonee rises back to Tier 3.

:salandit:Salandit (t5 to t4) - Salandit is a good candidate to replace Ponyta as an offensive Fire type. With its good speed and strong STAB and spread moves in Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave and Heat Wave as well as access to Nasty Plot, it can take advantage of teams that are underprepared for fire types. It also has good support options, being the fastest Fake Out and Will-O-Wisp user currently on the VR. Therefore, it earns its place in Tier 4.

:lileep:Lileep (t5 to t4) - One of Lileep's niches is the access to Storm Drain, which allows it take advantage of opposing Water-type moves and protect its teammate. While this niche was more useful when Ponyta was around, the meta changes caused by its ban has also been good news for Lileep. With Rufflet, Abra and Gastly on the rise, offensive Fighting type checks have been more prevalent than ever, which Lileep greatly appreciates, as they can keep it safe. Lileep is also immune to Foongus' Spore, and if running Suction Cups, is also immune to phazing, which allows it to make use of its setup options in Swords Dance and Stockpile safely. With two different bulky sets in physical setup and special Storm Drain, Lileep climbs to Tier 4.

:solosis:Solosis (t5 to t4) - Solosis's lower bulk and worse defensive typing makes it less of a reliable Trick Room setter than others like Porygon and Spritzee. However, Solosis distinguishes itself from the other Trick Room setters with its strong offensive presence and its ability to beat arguably the best Trick Room check, Foongus, with its ability Overcoat and strong Psychic STAB. It also has access to Psychic Terrain, which blocks priority like Fake Out that could be used to stall out Trick Room, and Expanding Force, making it arguably the best Psychic Terrain setter and abuser. It therefore goes up to Tier 4, just behind Spritzee and at the same level as Frillish.


DROPS

:vullaby:Vullaby (t2 to t3) - Vullaby has seen better days. Overshadowed by Rufflet and Archen as an offensive Flying type, its bulkier set is often overly passive, and with it often forgoing Protect, it is an easy target for many super-effective attacks from the likes of Chinchou, Elekid and Spritzee. It still has great utility, with Overcoat making it very good against Foongus, and options to run other sets as well. However, it is no longer the meta-defining force it was a few months ago, and thus drops to Tier 3.

:staryu:Staryu (t2 to t3) - With the ban of Ponyta, Staryu loses its main purpose, which was to threaten Ponyta. Staryu is still a good option in the current metagame, with good offensive presence and great coverage options. However, the rise of the Grass types Foongus and Grookey as well as Chinchou, it isn't as strong as it was before, and drops to Tier 3.

:spritzee:Spritzee (t2 to t3) - Trick Room as an archetype isn't at its best state right now. The Ponyta ban has led to the rise of Foongus, Gastly and Pawniard, all of which are naturally good against Trick Room teams in general, and especially against Spritzee. Aroma Veil Trick Room being Spritzee's main asset, Spritzee is now less valuable to teams and drops to Tier 3.

:frillish:Frillish (t3 to t4) - Frillish suffers from the same problem Spritzee does with the rise of Pawniard and Gastly, which both heavily threaten it and give a hard time to Trick Room teams in general. Frillish also loses its good matchup against Ponyta, and thus drops to Tier 4.

:omanyte:Omanyte (t3 to t4) - Since Grookey got more popular, Omanyte has been on a slow but steady decline. The rise of Staryu didn't help its case, and now with Ponyta banned, Omanyte has lost one of its main targets. Omanyte is still the best Shell Smash sweeper in the tier, but just like other Water types like Staryu, the current meta isn't doing it favors, so it drops to Tier 4.

:dewpider:Dewpider (t3 to t4) - Another Water type that drops after the Ponyta ban. The loss of Ponyta and the gain of popularity of Rufflet, Archen and Gastly have made Sticky Webs less impactful. With Dewpider being very weak to the birds and also losing its good matchup against Ponyta, it drops to Tier 4.

:woobat:Woobat (t3 to t4) - With people being more used to handle Groobat shenanigans, Woobat hasn't seen a lot of usage in the last LPL. Strong special attackers such as Gastly and Magnemite, Taunt, phazing and more could have contributed to this, but Woobat hasn't seen much success lately, and thus drops to Tier 4.

:drifloon:Drifloon (t4 to t5) - While being an LC Ubers Pokemon in singles, one would expect it to be at least decently good in LC Doubles, where it is not banned. Unfortunately, it is completely the opposite. With its meager attacking stats and pool bulk, especially when not running Eviolite to be able to activate Unburden, Drifloon has trouble doing more significant things than setting Tailwind and firing off Will-O-Wisps. Perhaps with Ponyta gone, Drifloon's fast Will-o-Wisp will be more relevant, but right now, it has yet to prove itself, and drops to Tier 5.

:riolu:Riolu (from t4 to t5) - Riolu initially rose to Tier 4 as its access to priority Coaching and other support options such as Follow Me or Quick Guard, sounded promising. However, this strategy hasn't proven itself to be effective yet, and Riolu remains frail and boasts poor offensive presence compared to the other Fighting types in the tier due to its shallow offensive movepool. Its Prankster neutralized by Koffing is also very undesirable. Riolu still has its niche as a Prankster weather setter, with it often being on sun teams and rain teams. This niche does not make Riolu good enough for Tier 4, however, so it drops to Tier 5.

:croagunk:Croagunk (t4 to t5) - Croagunk rose to Tier 4 because of its supposed ability to check opposing Fighting types it competes with, Mienfoo and Scraggy, but in the end, ends up being completely outclassed by them. It doesn't have the offensive presence of Mienfoo, nor does it have the Intimidate support of Scraggy. Furthermore, a weakness to Mudbray is something a Fighting type would really prefer not having in this meta. Therefore, Croagunk goes back to Tier 5.

:shellos-east:Shellos (t4 to t5) - Shellos is just too passive for the metagame right now. It no longer serves as a wall against Ponyta, and the redirection of Water-type moves with Storm Drain is less useful with Ponyta gone as well. Shellos also dislikes the increase of usage of Grass types like Grookey, Electric types like Chinchou or Elekid, and Taunt on the likes of Mienfoo or Koffing. In return, Shellos is pretty underwhelming offensively compared to others in Tier 4 like Frillish or Dewpider, and therefore drops to Tier 5.

:farfetchFarfetch'd-Galar (t5 to UR) - Farfetch'd-Galar, in principle, should be in competition with fellow Fighting types Mienfoo and Scraggy, with access to Brave Bird and an immunity to Intimidate with Scrappy being its main advantages. However, this isn't the case, as Farfetch'd is definitely outclassed by Mienfoo, due to its lower speed and to not having access to nearly as many support options, most notably Fake Out. Instead, Farfetch'd could have a niche in being a Scarf Final Gambit Pokemon, to remove an opposing Pokemon in one hit. This strategy, however, has yet to show its viability and utility in Doubles LC. Therefore, for now, Farfetch'd-Galar will fall into Unranked category.

:diglett:Diglett (t5 to UR) - Diglett is very weak and frail for a doubles standard, and with Ponyta gone, it loses its main target. Not having a strong single-target Ground STAB doesn't help it either, since it will hit like wet tissue most of the time. Using Diglett is hard to justify over stronger Ground type Mudbray or better trapper Gothita, and therefore goes Unranked.

:carvanha:Carvanha (t5 to UR) - Carvanha also loses a high-tier target in Ponyta, but it already had other problems to begin with. Its extreme frailty doesn't allow it to take a single hit, and it doesn't have enough power to OHKO most of the targets that aren't weak to its STABs. Grookey's presence in the tier doesn't help it either, and Trick Room completely destroys Speed Boost, its reason to be. Therefore Carvanha gets Unranked.

:cufant:Cufant (t5 to UR) - With the evolution of Trick Room in Doubles LC, experience has shown that Trick Room seems to be the most effective on semi-Trick Room teams rather than full Trick Room teams. In that regard, strong but vulnerable Trick Room attackers like Cufant are much less easy to fit on teams, and are generally outclassed by Pokemon that are more flexible, whether it is with more bulk like Porygon and Mudbray, or being a Trick Room setter as well like Solosis. A pure Trick Room wallbreaker like Cufant needs too much team support to work well, and Trick Room being less good in general right now doesn't help. Thus, Cufant falls to Unranked.

:aron:Aron (t5 to UR) - For similar reasons as for Cufant, Aron has a hard time finding a slot on Trick Room teams. It needs a lot of support to be effective, and it usually isn't worth the effort. Trick Room has also seen better days and it is the only place you could consider using Aron on. Therefore, Aron falls into Unranked.

:onix:Onix (t5 to UR) - Onix has also seen an abrupt fall from grace. While it was considered a good Pokemon that could neutralize Ponyta and Flying types like Rufflet and Vullaby handily, its major flaws now catch up to him, to the point of dropping off the VR. Its poor base Attack stat of 45 really shows when it is also very susceptible to Intimidate, making it hit like wet tissue. It is outclassed as a Ground type by Mudbray, which boasts more than double its Attack stat, as well as an immunity to both Intimidate and Fake Out. Onix is also outclassed by Tyrunt as a Dragon Dance Rock-type sweeper, as its severe weakness to the very common Water and Grass types really hurts it. All those reasons combined make Onix very hard to justify on a team, and therefore drops to Unranked.

:natu:Natu (t5 to UR) - Access to both Reflect and Light Screen as well as Ally Switch is what got Natu ranked originally. However, with few setup sweepers, screens aren't that useful, and Natu being threatened by many faster threats like Staryu and Gastly make them difficult to set up. Natu doesn't have much going for it aside from that, and therefore goes Unranked.


NEW ADDITIONS

:litten:Litten (ranked into t4) - With Ponyta banned, Litten isn't as outclassed as a Fire type anymore. It has access to Intimidate and Will-o-Wisp, which makes it a good option against the many physical attackers in the tier. It also has other support options, such as Fake Out and Parting Shot. Coming in from UR, it is placed into Tier 4, for now.

:oddish:Oddish (ranked into t5) - With manual sun having proven itself far from unviable, especially with Flash Fire Ponyta gone, Oddish makes its entrance onto the VR at Tier 5 as an alternative to Bulbasaur on sun teams. It faces competition with Bulbasaur as the main sun abuser, since Oddish doesn't have access to Weather Ball. However, many sun teams already have Fire-type coverage, and Oddish is slightly stronger and has access to Moonblast, which covers and could surprise an opposing Fighting type like Scraggy. Aside from this difference, Oddish is just as effective as Bulbasaur as a sun sweeper.

:charmander:Charmander (ranked into t5) - Similarly to Oddish, Charmander is also a new sun abuser that enters the VR from the first time. With Solar Power and thus very strong Fire-type attacks such as spread Heat Waves and Weather Ball under sun, and with Ponyta out of the picture, Charmander can tear through unprepared teams, justifying its addition to Tier 5.

:helioptile:Helioptile (ranked into t5) - Helioptile is the third and final sun abuser newly added to the VR into Tier 5. With Solar Power, its electric typing and 17 speed, it can be a potent wallbreaker with adequate speed control, which it also has in Electroweb and Glare.

:goldeen:Goldeen (ranked into t5) - Goldeen has a unique niche in the tier, not with its Acupressure shenanigans (lul), but with its ability Lightning Rod, which allows it to redirect Electric-type moves to protect its teammate. Therefore, it makes it a decent check to the rising Electric-type Pokemon like Magnemite and Chinchou, as it also resists their other STABs and can threaten them with Drill Run. These traits allow it to make it to Tier 5.

:duskull:Duskull (ranked into t5) - Duskull is the final new Pokemon to be ranked for the first time. Its main niche comes with its immunities, being a Trick Room setter immune to Fake Out, and unlike Frillish, it isn't weak to Foongus and boasts an immunity to Ground with Levitate. It also has some good support options, like Will-o-Wisp, Helping Hand, and Ally Switch. However, it is more passive than the other Trick Room setters, so it is only a Tier 5 Pokemon for now.

Phew, that must have been a long read. Congrats on making it this far. There sure was a lot of stuff that was covered, so if you have any opinions about the Pokemon discussed above or any other on the VR, feel free to discuss it in this thread! Anyway, thanks for tuning in, as always, and we will have other news for you soon!
 
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jcbc

Doubles LC Leader
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey hey hey, jc here with another very leading towards the future post. Let's get straight into business, so right after the LPL VII finished, we made a huge announcement which got followed by a survey to get feedback on the state of the tier, and we got a grand total of 42 responses, so ty so much those who took your time to reply to it we apreciate it a lot.
I'm going to discuss the responses to some of the questions that were in the survey giving some thought about the answer and possible future actions if there were to happen.

Have you played Doubles Little Cup in the last 6 months?

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There isn't much to say about this question. It was more useful for us (the council) than anything; as expected a grand majority of the people that fullfilled the survey have played the tier to a degree.

On a scale of 1-10 how would you rate the job of the tier leaders and council?

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We are always in the searching of the best look for the tier but to do so it's important tp have feedback on our job. And it looks like people are pretty happy with our course of actions as it turns out that the people that took the survey rates our job on a 7.50/10 overall; and while this is not perfection and a sign that we can still improve, we are happy to get such great results.

Is there anything you think they should do different/better or start doing?

Now i don't have a graphic for this question since it was not a question with predefined options but this was very interesting to go through personally as we got a plethora of different answers. I ensure that i personally went over each answer and took good notes on each one of them and i will so communicate them to the rest of the council to try and improve our job.

On a scale of 1-10, how good do you find the current metagame?

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The answer of this question was honestly shocking to me as i felt it would be way more unbalanced, but at the end, with a mean of 7.14/10 it seems like people think the metagame is pretty good. Now there are a few things that changed over the last weeks and it seems like Ponyta ban had a possitive impact on the likability of the tier, however there are a few things that i will speak about later on this post that may have affected this result. At the end this is a pretty good result anyways and we are glad to see that the tier is in a good point overall.

Which of the following statements describes how you feel about Rufflet in SS DLC?

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Rufflet has been a big topic of discussion since the beginning of this generation. Specially after Doubles LC Cup when it got suspect tested. And altho it ended not being banned, it was a really close call as it got a whopping 44.44% of the votes for Rufflet to be banned. We promised to keep a close eye on the bird and so that's what we did.
In this 2 months that has passed since the end of its suspect, Rufflet had it's ups and downs but it always stayed to be a top threat of the metagame. Only on the peak of Ponyta and during the suspect of this one, Rufflet seemed to be overshadowed by a bigger force but with Ponyta now out of the scene, Rufflet is back to the front page. And before making any fast assumptions we wanted to know the opinion of the playerbase.
Looking at the results of this one we see a lot of diffeyrent answers here. Out of the 42 persons that answered, 47.6% of them think Rufflet is balanced; from these, a 28.6% would support a suspect test while 19% of them think any type of tiering action is pointless and not needed. On the other hand, 52.4% of them think Rufflet is unbalanced (35.7%) and/or broken (16.7%) and so would want tiering action to be helded on Rufflet. This puts us in a very weird spot since it is clear that there's a big number of the playerbase that would vote to ban Rufflet but if we base ourselves on theae numbers they are not enough to ban it through a suspect test as it wouldn't reach the supermajority needed. The timing is also kinda bad; while 81% of the people that fullfilled the survey would support a suspect teat on Rufflet (not counting any type of opinion and/or vote), is also kinda bad as the suspect would end up almost at the same time as BDSP gets released so it would be a bit odd to make a suspect that would have no effect at all the next day.
We can't say what we will do with this info but it's very valuable for us and it will not fall into the forgotten lands. Rufflet is for a big amount of the playerbase a nuissance and if needed we will take further actions into it. Just be patience i promise we will be there if it's needed for the tiers sake.

Recently we made a big announcement about our future plans. How much did you like them?

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We wanted to know what you all thought about the recent announcements and well, the graphic speaks for its own, ad whille there were some users who weren't as excited for them, this are overall very good results, we are very happy to see our work being liked by you all and we promise it will not defraud anyone.

On a scale of 1-10 how much are you willing to participate in the future tournaments that are to come?

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And this enjoyment for the announcement gets reflected on these question too as we got a mean of 7.62/10 for people willing to participate on future tournaments. And all i can say is that we will be waiting you all in them!

Is there any Pokemon or specific aspect of the tier that we should look into and is not mentioned in the survey?

Again another question without predefined answers and again there isn't a graphic to show. But once more and for the last time on this survey i went over all of the answers and will make sure to pass over all of them to the rest of the council.

And this is everything from this survey. The metagame will continue to evolve, there may be more surveys in the future in all likelihood, and we will continue to keep a close-eye on the metagame as it develops. If you have any questions on these graphs or the responses in general, feel free to shoot me a PM anytime. Thanks to everyone who provided input! But before you, go let me say a couple more things.

very chaotic metagame on SM Doubles LC (i'll speak about this one later).
On the announcements i spoke about SM DLC having some news around it and if you are in the Doubles LC discord you probably have saw me asking for SM games. So now is the time where i'm going to speak about it. This metagame is very underexplored and while is already an oldgen it was a very promising tier and after a very long thinking time we've come to the conclusion of SM not being dumped and for that to happen we will be revisiting it. Expect more news about SM revamp and the future newest oldgen of DLC: ORAS for fall 2022. Both of these tiers will be featured in one of the tournaments that will make the Doubles LC circuit (a post around these topic will be released in the near future).

The council and both Ace and myself will be present to address any issues we believe deserve tiering action when appropriate! Thanks for reading and we hope that you all keep enjoying the tier the same way we will try to keep it as likeable for everyone! :psyglad:
 
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cant say

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Battle Stadium Head
hey guys, just thought I’d bump this thread with some news from Nintendo. They’ve announced their own version of this as a special weekend format coming up called Tiny Tourney, which will be played in Sword/Shield battle stadium. We’ll have a ladder on Showdown ASAP

Link to the thread here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tiny-tourney-2021.3694047/

The differences are:
  • played at level 50 instead of 5.
  • choose 4 of your 6 before each battle
  • “tall” LC pokémon banned (list of eligible mons in the thread)
  • Dynamax allowed
  • item clause: yes
  • sleep / evasion / OHKO / baton pass clauses: no

I was hoping some of you gamers could help us out and not get destroyed by the crazy Japanese tech on battle stadium lol
 

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