Doubles Sun/Moon Competitive Team (Please Close)

[Vradek]

So I've been trying to create a doubles competitive team and after much research and discussion back and forth, I think I've found a viable team that I would like to be judged by the smogon community.

Torkoal @ Firium Z
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
0 Spe IV
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- HP Ice/Solarbeam
- Protect

So this my weather setter, pretty obvious and self explanatory moveset I think. The only question I have is whether or not HP Ice is worth it over solarbeam. I get HP Ice has better coverage but its BP is so low, especially compared to Solarbeam (which has less coverage).

Liligant @ Big Root
Ability: Chorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder
- After You
- Protect

This is to gain speed control in sunny weather. I thought Big Root was a good idea so its only attack would heal for more.

Oranguru @ Leftovers
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
0 Spe IV
- Psychic
- Instruct
- After You
- Trick Room

The best TR setter to my understanding. Again, fairly common spread and moveset. I'm thinking about replacing After You for Protect, but then I do lose a bit of speed control in TR.

Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Terrain
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

Lele allows me to get in on terrain wars and choice Specs Lele is beast. Alternatively, I could go a bit more conservative with the following moveset:

Tapu Lele @ Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Terrain
EVs: 44 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

This lele is a bit more conservative because I can protect myself with.... well...protect. Thunderbolt was chosen as my non-STAB move to takedown Celesteela as Torkoal was my only option initially. I would definitely like an opinion as to which people think are better to run on my team or if this is just a personal opinion as to which both are viable.

Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
0 Spe IV
- Gunk Shot
- Poison Jab
- Crunch
- Protect

To take care of Tapus and any other fairies, and its slow speed works well in TR to give me more options.

The last mon I'm a bit torn between the following two candidates:

Krookodile @ Life Orb (Unless I choose the LO Lele, in which case IDK, maybe Expert Belt???)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Att / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rockslide
- Snarl/Crunch (debating because I have Muk with crunch and thought the decrease in SpA from snarl would be beneficial)
- Protect

Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rockslide
- Dragon Claw
- Protect

I haven't figured out all the items yet and just put basic EV spreads for the most part until I figure out better ones (if you have EV spread suggestions, that would be great). It's definitely the best team I've put together so far (with A LOT of help, thanks RebornFX) and I would love any opinions, comments, criticism and advice on this team. Thanks in advance.

 

[Solbady]

Might want to think about changing Intimidate Incineroar as it has yet to be released.

Good team, nonetheless.

 

[Vradek]

Might want to think about changing Intimidate Incineroar as it has yet to be released.

Good team, nonetheless.

Hahaha, thanks. I didn't even realize!

 

[oreofestar]

It seems like you have both physical and special threats so Psychic and psyshock while I understand why you put both I think is probably a bit redundant to put over something like protect.

 

[Pyritie]

The problem is you're team building like this was singles, with your having "walls" and "clerics". These roles do not exist in VGC.

Instead you need a plan to get your mons in the right place (known as "board control") so you can enable your win condition (like "sweep with torkoal").

 

[RebornFX]

To be honest, you only have 2 Pokemon that are completely viable in the format, and the fact that they're your 'back-ups' (which really shouldn't be your way of thinking in this format in the first place) has me worried. Not a single item choice makes any sense, your movesets seem random as do your EVs. I'll start by suggesting changes to the sets of your current team mostly for you in the future when making sets before suggesting certain replacements.

Let's go in order then. First off Comfey. Big root is a wasted item, as draining kiss will be doing so little damage in the first place, it requires you to click draining kiss which has an opportunity cost for very little play off and in pretty much every game you play Sitrus Berry is likely to heal more over the length of the game. The general idea of a cleric in doubles is pretty pointless. There aren't an enormous number of status setters, and there is quite a bit of counter play against it. That being said, if you chose to keep the team as it is I can only assume you'll be using it on the bottom of the ladder and who knows what random T waves/burns/toxics will be running around there so I think Aromatherapy still deserves a place on the set. Draining kiss is just a wasted move slot. A base 50 move coming from a mediocre uninvested base 82 sp.atk isn't going to be worth clicking. I have no idea what your EVs do since you haven't included any calcs, so I'm going to leave them the same. If they aren't there to hit any benchmarks however, you should probably optimise it. If you don't know how, I can link you to a great article on making EV spreads. There's almost certainly some Pokemon that having some speed investment would help against.

Anyway, here is an alternative set
Comfey @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Floral Healing
- Helping Hand
- Swagger/Trick Room
- Aromatherapy/Synthesis

Helping Hand helps with the lack of damage output of this mon, allowing you to strengthen your partner's attacks and secure KOs you wouldn't be able to otherwise. Swagger is interesting here as in a heavily specially based format being able to have a good chance of preventing special attackers from moving is really nice, and you could potentially pair this with a lum berry physical attacker to give yourself a free +2. Trick Room could work here if you feel you need another setter, though if you keep the team as is you already have two setters with a team that doesn't really abuse trick room well at all.

Okay next up...Wide Lens Blizzard Slowking. Okay, very random. Firstly, as a trick room setter, the only thing Slowking really has going for it over something like Oranguru or P2 is it has a built in Mental Herb with Oblivious. Otherwise P2 hits much harder even without the +1 from Download, Oranguru gets Instruct and interesting options like After You, and neither are weak to Electric which is huge in a format with so much Tapu Koko. I really don't like Slowking in this format, but I guess I'd go with a set like this if anything.

Slowking @ Life Orb
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Fire Blast

At least this way you have an offensive trick room setter with decent coverage. Ice Beam is just better than Blizzard considering it hits single targets harder and is 100% accurate. Fire Blast is there to hit Celesteela and Tapu Bulu if you're ballsy enough to stay in on that thing. Again EVs seem totally random and probably should be refined to a LO set anyway.

Now Braviary. I think this thing could actually be interesting in the format, but not in the way that you are using it. It could be an interesting Intimidate deterrent for teams that rely on their Physical attackers to deal damage with Defiant. Considering however that you have one Physical attacker besides Braviary this wouldn't make sense on your current team. the only change I'm going to suggest is make it a scarf set. This team is painfully slow outside of TR, and has little to no damage output. At least a scarf set will be able to revenge kill certain Pokemon.

Braviary (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Shadow Claw
- Tailwind
- U-turn

Something along these lines. I really haven't put much thought in to this set, or looked at speed tiers. Adamant Scarf might make more sense, I haven't weighed up the benefits and drawbacks to running that over Jolly. Brave Bird will probably the move you click 95% of the time since it is the most spammable move. Shadow Claw I guess to hit Marowak and Lele harder? Tailwind if you need one of your mons to outspeed a certain mon to win the game. U-turn to get out of an unfavourable matchup when you are confident your target won't Protect or that you'll get outsped or hit by a priority move. Idk this just seems better than random LO bulky Braviary.

Okay, non-mega lucario just seems very lack luster. It doesn't exactly hit that hard, is a complete glass cannon and only has above average speed. This is a set that I'd probably go with if I were to ever use it.

Lucario @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 116 Atk / 140 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flash Cannon
- Close Combat
- Protect

Focus sash to patch its poor defences, max speed to take advantage of its good speed, same moves, just replace EQ with Protect as it's a staple in doubles and especially good for glass cannons. Again, seemingly random EVs that probably need changing.

Now the actually decent mons. Drampa is a really cool TR abuser in my eyes. It has access to a strong STAB spread move as well as a good defensive typing, monstrous special attack and a nuke option in draco. There's just a few changes I'd make.

Drampa @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

I'm not sure how I feel about wise glasses, but since LO has been taken by Slowking, it's probably a decent option. Maybe some kind of berry would be better, but that depends on what attacks you need this thing to live and whether you lose much from the loss of damage. Cloud nine really doesn't seem like a great ability. Weather isn't that prevalent, Torkoal's eruption is still going to hurt and Beserk is just generally a nicer ability. Max Sp.Atk to abuse TR and min speed for the same purpose.

Finally Oranguru. I like After You Oranguru for this team, considering you said it yourself that some of your mons don't function too well under TR. After You causes these Pokemon to move just after Oranguru, which is pretty fast under TR. I went with Mental Herb since taunt seems to be the most common way of preventing TR outside of outright OHKOing Oranguru. The EVs live a Flare Blitz from Marowak.

Oranguru @ Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- After You

So that's if you want to keep the team as it is. However, I really don't recommend that. Most of these Pokemon are outright outclassed by other mons in the format, or just don't fill a significant enough role to justify a place on your team. Honestly, the only Pokemon I would consider keeping here are Drampa and Oranguru. Here are the changes I would recommend.

Replace Slowking with Torkoal.
Slowking really just seems out of place on this team. Oranguru fills its role as a TR setter much better and having two makes the team too centred around it. Torkoal provides another incredible TR abuser (which alongside Instruct Oranguru is freaking terrifying), as well as a weather setter so that you can combat opposing weather with your own weather. This is the set that I would recommend.

Torkoal @ Firium Z
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

HP Ice hits Garchomp and Mence, Heat Wave is used when you are low on HP and Eruption is a nuke. Firium Z can be used on Wide Guard users and just to generally blow black things expecting to live a hit and KO in return. EVs are fairly simple.

Replace Comfee with Tapu Lele.
I know that you said that you dislike using legendaries, but honestly the Tapus run the meta right now and are some of the strongest Pokemon by far. By not having a way of preventing opposing terrains you are a lot more restricted in your counter play, and you are missing out on their ability to smack things for ridiculously hard Wood Hammers/Psychics/Thunderbolts. It's going to be difficult for you if you just refuse to use them, not in the same way as it was pretty much impossible not to use a primal/mega ray last year but it's a pretty big handicap.

Tapu Lele @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 132 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

The set allows Tapu Lele to have a very good chance to survive a LO Jolly Wild Charge from Tapu Koko in Electric terrain, while still having enough firepower to OHKO no bulk Koko in Psychic Terrain. The speed is just there to speed creep things trying to speed creep 4 speed lele. Thunderbolt is there for opposing Gyarados and Celesteela (after some prior damage so you don't die to Heavy Slam). Psychic Seed provides a free +1 sp.def boost thanks to Psychic terrain.

Replace Lucario with Metagross.
Metagross seemingly trumps Lucario in every way. It has much better bulk, hits harder, can abuse Psychic terrain with Zen Headbutt, also has access to priority, is immune to Intimidate all for the price of a little speed. This is the set I'd recommend.

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Protect

Lum Berry serves two purposes. Firstly it guards you from any opposing burns/t waves, while it also allows you to synergise well with Swagger Oranguru to get a free +2 boost. Add psychic terrain and your Zen Headbutts are going to be ridiculous. Keep in mind however that you can't use bullet punch in psychic terrain, so be careful switching in Lele when you need to bp.

And finally replace braviary with Krookodile.
Braviary is a cool mon and I really wanted to make it work, but with this new variation of the team you have one Physical attacker which is immune to Intimidate. I couldn't justify keeping it. Krookodile provides the team with a dark resist (great for Lele and Gross), Intimidate, an electric immunity, two great spread options (and a nice flinch chance :P) and an answer to opposing Oranguru.

Krookodile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Protect

I like Sash Krook as it doesn't need to worry so much about things like Bulu outright OHKOing it.

And to round it off some changes to Oranguru and Drampa to better fit the new changes.

Oranguru @ Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Swagger

Same Oranguru set, I just replaced After You with Swagger since you now have more of a dedicated trick room mode with Drampa and Torkoal, so After You is less important.

Drampa @ Life Orb
Ability: Berserk
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Protect

I replaced Thunderbolt with Flamethrower as Flamethrower hits opposing steels while also getting the sun boost from Torkoal. I also swapped out wise glasses with LO.

 

[Pyukumu-kukuku]

I'm not really seeing the logic of running Trick Room on Slowking with the 3 non-subs because they all have high base speed. Drampa and Slowking are the only ones getting good milage out of it. (Comfey and Oragaru probably don't care as much with their priority moves.) The wise lens and wise glasses don't seem super useful compared to Choice Specs or Life Orb.

 

[Vradek]

It seems like you have both physical and special threats so Psychic and psyshock while I understand why you put both I think is probably a bit redundant to put over something like protect.

Well because psychic calculates based on special defense and psyshock on defense, so I thought it would be a nice cover if a bulky of either mon came out on the field.

These roles do not exist in VGC.

What are the roles called then because not every mon on your team does the same thing, so is there terminology for roles in general in VGC?

the fact that they're your 'back-ups' (which really shouldn't be your way of thinking in this format in the first place) has me worried.

Yeah, Idk why I kept that, I'm new to competitive team building "clearly" and initially wasn't sure if I could bring 4 mon or 6, thats kinda why I said the last 2 were "back-ups", but when making the team I realized that wasnt the case and just didn't get rid of the word, but I can assure you, I did choose mons and moves that covered the weaknesses of all mons I had, including my "back-up" mons and tried to make them all work together.

Not a single item choice makes any sense

Yeah, I don't like that it limits me to one move, but I guess I have to learn more about it and get over that.

If you don't know how, I can link you to a great article on making EV spreads.

Yes please!

Ice Beam is just better than Blizzard considering it hits single targets harder and is 100% accurate

As just a general question. Aren't moves that hit both the opponents not preferred over single target dmg? At least thats what I thought and is why I added blizzard even though I totally agree with you on ice beam. I hated the lack of accuracy so much that I added wide lens just to make it more reliable.

Most of these Pokemon are outright outclassed by other mons in the format

Is there a list of mons typically used for VGC? I don't really know which mons outclass which.

as a weather setter so that you can combat opposing weather with your own weather.

Yeah, that's why I had cloud nine, because I didn't want to waste turns fighting just to set my own weather or them placing weather that puts me at a disadvantage. Using cloud nine was my way of saying "fuck it, nobody gets weather!"

Thank you so much RebornFX for taking the time to provide me your opinion as it was truly fantastic. I like that you greatly improved upon the team I had and suggested an even better one that wasn't stacked with legendaries, lol. (I just hate going online and vsing randoms with all legendaries and get so much pride beating them with a non-legendary team). One legendary is totally cool with me, I just didn't want an entire team of them.

Anyways, I clearly have a lot to learn and am waiting for the smogon tutoring sessions to open up again so I can understand it better. I'll test out the team on the PS! simulator I just downloaded and see how it goes. Anyways, thanks again!

 

[Vradek]

I'm not really seeing the logic of running Trick Room on Slowking with the 3 non-subs because they all have high base speed. Drampa and Slowking are the only ones getting good milage out of it. (Comfey and Oragaru probably don't care as much with their priority moves.) The wise lens and wise glasses don't seem super useful compared to Choice Specs or Life Orb.

Yeah, I didn't want everyone super slow because then I would have been easily countered by anyone who can slow down my TR set-up or stall with protect, that's why I tried putting priority moves, so they can still go first in TR even with the high speed.

Yeah, RebornFX also suggested choice items. I just don't like that it limits me to one move, but I'll just have to get over it, lol.

I had Wise glasses because Braviary already had life orb, so I chose another item to boost moves.

 

[RebornFX]

Vradek Just to answer some of your questions.

Running both psychic and psyshock on the same set for the most part is just a waste of a moveslot, especially on something as supportive as Oranguru where its offensive move is more to get chip damage or to finish off weakened enemies.

The roles that he is referring to are things like 'wall' and 'sweeper'. In doubles there really aren't any walls. There are definitely defensive support mons, the best example I can think of is Amoonguss in previous generations. It's supporting in nature by the fact that one of its main roles on a team is redirection in Rage Powder (though also being a great rain and trick room and putting on pressure with Spore). But this isn't a wall as such. You can't just mindlessly switch it in on certain mons like you could in singles. Most things that would be considered walls in Singles would be considered passive in Doubles. By that I mean it just kind of sits there without doing anything for your team. A good player will take advantage of this, realising that threatening and choosing to double target its partner, set up (either forms of speed control or boosting) or take the chance to improve their board positioning. It's just very different considering how fast paced these games tend to be. The average game tends not to last 10 turns, whereas that would be an incredibly short singles game.

I'm glad you realise that all your mons should be of roughly equal importance on your team :) This wasn't necessarily true last year, where you would see certain Pokemon specifically for certain matchups. To some extent that could be the case this year, who really knows at this point.

Oh when I said not a single item choice makes sense I meant the original items you chose on your sets didn't make sense, not choice items. Choice items can be good, it just depends on what your team needs. The trade-off between not switching moves can be bad, but that's just something you need to keep in mind before switching in a choiced Pokemon and locking in a certain move.

Here is great article on making EV spreads. http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry...ion-creating-specialized-ev-spreads-part-one/
Obviously the examples are outdated, talking about Hydreigon, kangaskhan, Rotom etc. but the concepts still relate. I believe there are more parts to it, they shouldnt be hard to find though.

Spread moves deal 25% damage to each target. Considering the nature of Ice Beam, it's generally going to only have one primary target (things like Garchomp and Salamence). Blizzard definitely works on hail teams, but outside of that I really wouldn't recommend it. Spread moves in general are great though. Even just getting certain Pokemon into KO range of another move with the chip damage is great.

At this point the metagame isn't really developed. People are still discovering Pokemon with niche roles. I could make a general list of Pokemon you can expect to see and should take into consideration when teambuilding I suppose, but that would definitely be subject to change.

And I get where you're coming from with the weather wars, but I personally just don't find having a dedicated stop to weather is the way to go. Having Pokemon that beat the weather setters and abusers themselves however is a great way of going about it.

And yes you definitely want a good mix of speed, even on Trick Room teams. Dedicated Trick Room teams are very one dimensional and tend to be easily countered when playing against competent players.

On the topic of legendaries, I really wouldn't focus on whether the Pokemon is a legendary or not. It is perfectly possible to make a team that functions just as well as a team of only legendaries without using any legendaries (very easily actually, considering legendary spam tends not to synergise particularly well), and non legendaries can perform just as well if not better than legendaries in particular formats. At the end of the day people aren't going to stop using certain Pokemon because of certain people's philosophies on legendaries, they will make a team that they perform well with. Essentially, what I'm getting at is make sure you're prepared to beat legendaries even if you don't think they should be used, because they're going to be used.

Just some final resources, as I've posted in other threads three youtubers I'd really recommend checking out.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9OZkS1Mhl5UvKSiPrYqsxg
https://www.youtube.com/user/CybertronProductions
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheKylecol3

Wolfey has been putting out great analyses for the new Pokemon, including sets with calcs explaining what the EVs are there to do (should help with creating spreads on your own) and potential partners.
Cybertron posts great daily battlespot lives with his full thought processes. He also recently created a great teambuilding guide for beginners I would highly recommend checking out.
And finally Kyle Cole posts some cool showdown lives as well as Pokemon analyses and recently made a 'Good VGC Cores' video which is a great starting place for teambuilding.

 

[Vradek]

RebornFX with regards to legendaries, I fully agree, just because I don't like to use them very much definitely doesn't mean they won't be used against me and to not take enemy legendaries into account would just be foolish on my end.

Thanks for the explanation of spread moves, I see what you mean how it isn't as good as ice beam unless I'm running a hail set.

With regards to weather wars, although this may be me being naive to the subject, but finding counters to weather setters and abusers of all four types of weather just seems a lot more difficult then synergizing a team around a non weather strategy and preventing them from doing weather with an ability like cloud nine which is a blanket weather stopper, hindering their own strategy. Are there just not that many viable weather setter and abuser pokemon in VGC that countering all of them is a viable option? Or is it that weather strategies are so fantastic that I'm missing out on an opportunity by not using it?

Thanks for the explanations of roles in doubles as well as all the resources you provided. I'll definitely be looking at them and learning what I can. I would also more than welcome a list of pokemon to look out for if it's not too much trouble.

 

[RebornFX]

RebornFX with regards to legendaries, I fully agree, just because I don't like to use them very much definitely doesn't mean they won't be used against me and to not take enemy legendaries into account would just be foolish on my end.

Thanks for the explanation of spread moves, I see what you mean how it isn't as good as ice beam unless I'm running a hail set.

With regards to weather wars, although this may be me being naive to the subject, but finding counters to weather setters and abusers of all four types of weather just seems a lot more difficult then synergizing a team around a non weather strategy and preventing them from doing weather with an ability like cloud nine which is a blanket weather stopper, hindering their own strategy. Are there just not that many viable weather setter and abuser pokemon in VGC that countering all of them is a viable option? Or is it that weather strategies are so fantastic that I'm missing out on an opportunity by not using it?

Thanks for the explanations of roles in doubles as well as all the resources you provided. I'll definitely be looking at them and learning what I can. I would also more than welcome a list of pokemon to look out for if it's not too much trouble.

Okay, so Pokemon you absolutely need to expect and prepare for:
Arcanine, Celesteela, Garchomp, Gyarados, Krookodile, Alolan Marowak, Oranguru, Porygon 2, Salamence, Tapu Koko, Bulu and Lele, Torkoal, Xurkitree

Pokemon that are less 'splashable' and being on more specific teams, but still you can expect to see:
Aerodactyl, Araquanid, Braviary, Clefable/Clefairy, Drampa, Alolan Exeggcutor, Gastrodon, Gengar, Gigalith, Hariyama, Lilligant, Magnezone, Metagross, Milotic, Mimikyu, Mudsdale, Alolan Muk, Nihilego, Alolan Ninetails, Parasect, Pelipper, Pheromosa, Porygon Z, Alolan Raichu, Alolan Sandslash, Scizor, Tapu Fini, Togedemaru, Vanilluxe, Weavile, Whimsicott, Wishiwashi

This list isn't all inclusive, and some of the Pokemon I listed in the second list are only really there for certain gimmicks (Z-Trick room + Sleep Powder for eggy, Z-Conversion for PZ).

And when it comes to weather checks, in this format there are essentially 5 weather setters (6 if you count Politoed, which for the most part is outclassed by Pelipper as it gets Wide Guard, Tailwind, 100% accurate Hurricanes etc.), being Pelipper, Torkoal, Gigalith, Alolan Ninetails and Vanilluxe. Abusers are fairly few also when it comes to abilities (swift swim, sand rush, slush rush etc.) Sand Rush users are Stoutland and Lycanrock, not particularly strong. Slush Rush is only Alolan Sandslash. Chlorophyll is Lilligant, Whimsicott and Leafeon. Swift Swim are Poliwrath and Golduck. But certain Pokes really appreciate having water/fire type moves weakened in rain/sun, some appreciate having boosted fire moves to secure KOs, and some appreciate 100% accurate Thunders and Hurricanes. You will never counter everything that can take advantage of weather, but having counterplay against it is essential and having your own form of weather puts you in that fight. Cloud nine isn't a permanent solution, eliminating their weather setter (or picking up 2 KOs so it can no longer switch out to reset the weather) and setting up your own weather is. Though as with everything there is opportunity cost. Do you go all in on the weather setter and let something else that is threatening survive. These things really depend on your game plan and what is the most threatening to that game plan. These are things that you want to consider when refining your team. Does a certain combination of opposing Pokemon straight up prevent you from winning? try moving things around until you can deal with that while still being able to beat everything that you could before.

Sorry I went a bit off topic there, that's just how I go about it in general. Honestly weather isn't massively prevalent at this point in time, it's just something to consider.

 

[Vradek]

RebornFX Great list and thanks a ton for the list of the different pokemon types. I also read the EV articles and realized I was building for general bulkiness or to generally outspeed opponents without having common benchmarks, which would be much better for optimization. I'm going to make an ever better team, thanks for all your help!

 

[blarajan]

Temporarily locking until you make an attempt at this thread

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mandatory-team-building-homework-assignment.3589392/

you're clearly trying so I look forward to your response!

 

[blarajan]

Unlocking this thread as he made an effort at the mandatory assignment thread, but in an attempt not to be rude, I would highly recommend trying again.

There's a lot with this team simply isn't viable and I think at this point, after completing the assignment, you're more aware of that. While building this there's a lot of singlecisms that you included while building. I'll go one by one.

Comfey: what's it doing? It doesn't do anything. Aromatherapy isn't a particularly good move in Doubles (though it does see uses, like Heal Bell Meowstic on XRay teams last format). Draining Kiss is extremely, extremely weak and doesn't do damage. There's no point in sustaining Synthesis on a Pokemon that isn't worth keeping on the field. Heal Pulse is objectively inferior to Floral Healing, which does the same thing but also has an increased healing effect in Grassy Terrain.

Slowking is objectively a fine Pokemon, but there is no need for Blizzard + Wide Lens. That's just not very effective.

Braviary is just completely unviable in that way. It's not doing anything besides be a waste of space. You're pressing weak moves that and attempting to put a Life Orb on a Pokemon you want to be a wall. It doesn't deal with any threats in the format, outside of maybe Tapu Bulu. I don't think Braviary has a niche outside of Defiant and Tailwind.

The Lucario is not good. Super Effective coverage isn't helpful if it doesn't have a reason being on your team. Shell Bell is NEVER viable, except on like...FEAR Pokemon and that isn't possible in VGC anymore as far as I remember.

The Drampa is probably the most viable Pokemon on this team but the set itself isn't very good. I think Cloud Nine is probably fine, but Drampa doesn't have time to use Roost.

Oranguru is silly. Psychic and Psyshock isn't worth having. Oranguru doesn't have time to use Leftovers.

VGC doesn't build the way Singles do. You need to take into account what Pokemon are on the field together, and in what way. You need Protect on stuff; not blindly adding it, as sometimes you just don't have room for Protect, but you need a really good reason not to have it. It opens up a lot of room for playing around your opponent. The sets you're using need to have a reason to be there. You don't add Pokemon due to "roles" like Cleric or Sweeper (which you don't ever do, really). You add Pokemon based on how they work together. You don't add your 5th and 6th Pokemon because on paper they synergize together; you bring them because you can incorporate them into your team's modes.

The point of the team-building assignment is to think through these problems and to recognize you need to worry about how Pokemon work together. You likewise can't just objectively use bad things, like Comfey.

I hope you look at these criticisms and the comments you have been given, take into account the things you thought about when conducting the assignment, and then look towards successful teams. Try to figure out why they're successful.

Good luck buddy.