Doubles Teambuilding Workshop Sessions - (SEE POST 139)

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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approved by Doubles Moderators

Doubles Teambuilding
Workshop Sessions



~Obligatory SmogDubs Logo; let's go worship Bummer now~
Doubles is a (relatively) new tier, and every day, more and more new people come and try it out. To complement a growing userbase, I and many other Doubles moderators / users thought it would be highly beneficial to host occasional Doubles Teambuilding Sessions, some on Pokemon Showdown's Doubles Room, and some on #doubles on IRC. The point of these sessions is to develop community-wide teambuilding experience and to tips and strategies for teambuilding in doubles. It will also be a great opportunity for newer players to integrate themselves into the Doubles community and see that we don't bite at all! :]

Here's how this is going to work:

These sessions will occur probably twice a month, maybe more or less depending on our schedules. We will alternate sessions on PS and IRC.

In these sessions, we will gather as a group and collectively create a team around a pre-determined, well-defined concept or idea. (In a CCAT fashion, basically.) Once that team is made, I (or one of the other hosts) will make a post in this thread summarizing the discussion, providing an importable for the created team, and adding explanations for the chosen aspects of the team. From then, this thread will be open for discussion on how the team works, ways to improve it, ways to use it, and matches it has undergone in the ladder, etc.

All are free to join in! Remember to have fun!


Coming Up With Team Starting Points

Usually, we will update this thread about a week or so in advance so that the community has time to choose a specific starting point to build the team around. There will be time given to submit ideas and then time to submit votes.

Idea Submission tips:
~Support your idea with reasoning! Keep in mind that the reason for building a team around an idea is just as important as what the idea is.
~Remember that the point of these workshops is for the community to grow and gain experience in building solid competitive teams, so NO GIMMICKS. (sorry Nollan ;])
~Keep your starting points simple yet concise, so that there are many different paths to explore. However, avoid being too vague (like don't just say "offense!"). The point is to start off with an idea or a core to base the team around. (Ex: *This type of weather* with *insert Pokemon here.* or Team made around *this famous core*.)



Next Session:
WBA

Teams Made:
Talonflame @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 176 Spd / 252 Atk / 80 HP
Adamant Nature
- Tailwind
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Protect

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 136 Spd / 252 SAtk / 120 HP
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- Protect

Thundurus (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 152 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Future Sight
- Protect
- Shadow Ball

Aegislash @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword

 
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Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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I'll post a starting point here so that you guys have a general idea of what starting point submission should look like:


Starting Point: Rain Team with AV Ludicolo

Explanation:
With the advent of Sun with Mega Charizard Y and the boost in Sand with new monsters such as Mega Tyranitar and Mega Garchomp, Sun and Sand have seemed to take over the majority of the tier and the ladder. However, Rain remains a very prominent strategy, and has numerous advantages over the other types of weather. With this idea, the workshop will focus around the many different types of options that Rain has.

AV Ludicolo (and obviously Politoed cuz Rain) are the only Pokemon that I think definitely should be on the team. The technical prowess of AV Ludicolo is shown through Mizuhime's many SPL adventures, and would be an interesting Pokemon to include on the team. It has bulk, speed, and power under Rain, so it's not forcing us into any offensive / defensive strategy, keeping options open.
 
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Starting Point: Latios + Volcarona Core

Explanation: Volcarona is a very underrated threat in the metagame. It has great all around stats, Rage Powder, Quiver Dance, Tailwind (even Will-O-Wisp if for some reason that seems legit), and an excellent STAB combination. Since Volcarona can play different roles for a given team, if Volcarona were to be our starting point the team, it could send the team's overall playstyle in a lot of different directions. Latios is picked alongside it because its high power and speed makes it a solid partner regardless of what set Volcarona opts to run, and the duo will apply a lot of offensive pressure to the opposing side.
 
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Concept: Reking nubs in low rank ladder with ubers from singles

Explanation: Most singles ubers that are allowed in doubles hyper-offensive. The general strategy is to OHKO and outspeed everything while keeping your team safe with good protect predictions and flinches. Such team is weak to Trick Room, so your best bet is to stall it out with protects. It destroys people who dare to use gimmicks and/or UU pokemon.
Such pokemon are Deo-A, Skymin, Mega Kang, Darkrai, Genesect and Blaziken.
 
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Concept: Reking nubs in low rank ladder with ubers from singles

Explanation: Most singles ubers that are allowed in doubles hyper-offensive. The general strategy is to OHKO everything while keeping your team safe with good protect predictions and flinches. It destroys people who dare to use gimmicks and/or UU pokemon.
Such pokemon are Deo-A, Skymin, Mega Kang, Darkrai, Genesect and Blaziken.
Gonna go ahead and say that using Flinches to win matches is a bad idea, especially with a team with only one pseudo-bulky attacker in Kanga.

Also, Blaziken sucks and we are building teams for competitive use, not noob stomping. Thanks.

SemiRoom Bulky Offense

Starting Mons:


Explanation:
Gonna keep this quick.

SemiRoom is a vastly underrated and highly effective style in today's Metagame. With the weather nerf, the Dragon nerf (Fairy type as well as DM nerf), the Steel nerf (no longer resists Dark/Ghost), the loss and nerf of almost all Gems, and the general bulk added to the Metagame this Gen, the days of Fast Hyper Offense and DragSteel cores has tapered off, making bulkier mons king. Pokemon with the ability to take hits, hit back hard, and heal off damage/status are highly sought after in the current meta, making things like Kangaskhan, Conkeldurr, Scizor, Cress, Rotom, Scrafty, and Amoongus very big players. There's also things like Bisharp, Heatran and Lando-T, who had either the counter play or the existing bulk to make huge waves compared to last gen, where they were not quite as good. Additionally, Trick Room, while strong as hell last Gen, comes back with a vengeance this Gen, with the drop of common Taunt users and the high spike in Tailwind/Para teams.

For these reasons, a SemiRoom team aimed at using middling speed Bulky attackers and general support would positively thrive and should definitely be exploited explored in a group setting. Specifically, a team based around CressTran would be easy to use, effective as fuck, and leaves enough room to build around that we could build it multiple times and end up with vastly different teams.
 
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Starting Point: Tailwind + Mega Heracross

Explanation: Mega Heracross can OHKO pretty much all standard threats including Mega Kanga, Heatran, Char Y, Rotom-W, Shaymin-Sky the list goes on. The only problem is that it lacks the speed required to get most of these KOs. Enter Tailwind Suicune.
Suicune can not only reliably set up tailwind thanks to its enormous bulk, but can also switch into Heat Waves and Air Slashes aimed at Heracross if need be. A great teammate for this core is Terrakion who forces out Char-Y which threatens the pair before tailwind is set up.
An offensive suicune with ice beam and scald can also threaten intimidators like hitmontop and Lando-T with a burn/OHKO should they want to switch in.

Edit: Just saw Nollan's post in the SPL sets thread, I didn't steal this I promise haha
 
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BLOOD TOTEM

braine damaged
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Starting Point: Semi TR Featuring Guts Heracross


EXPLANATION
At the center of the team lies a Pokemon that will play one of two roles depending on the matchup and situation in the battle. Outside of the usual semi TR archetype with bulky setters like Calm Mind Cresselia and heavy hitters with middling speed such as Kyurem-B, we'll run Heracross with the base ability Guts as well as Heracronite. It's purpose depends on what the team is up against. not being too hasty to mega evolove is the key to success since Heracross can absorb status for the rest of the team and use it to it's advantage, with burns boosting it's damage output and the effects of Thunder Wave being alleviated by Trick Room. If status abusers are cleared and Heracross has a clear path, it can go mega and proceed to wreck face.
 
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oh I like this idea.
Starting Point: Gravity + sleep clause.

I am actually extremely excited to test out and use Gravity! Truly the only bad thing about Gravity is that your opponent can enjoy the benefit of lowered evasiveness as well as you can, so while you're finally able to use Heat Wave and Rock Slide without fear of the attack missing either of your opponents, he can also sigh a mutual sigh of relief. Still, I think it's worth experimenting with. Saying that Gravity users can be stopped dead in their tracks with Taunt is the same as saying Trick Room can be stopped just as easily, yet that strategy runs rampant in the doubles metagame. I think past Gravity's ability to lessen the anxiety of weak-accuracy moves missing, people overlook it's other benefit, in that it grounds flying types and pokemon with the ability Levitate. Sure, Garchomp can hit everyone with Levitate, but that includes his ally, too. I think the synergy of Gravity/Telepathy is going to surface a lot more, especially since more Pokemon with the DW ability Telepathy are going to be able to use Gravity come the Winter regional season. I've battled a few Japanese players on the GBU that have expertly utilized Gravity with Trick Room via Musharna, and proceed to have a field day letting Rhyperior Earthquake everything to death. I'm very excited to do this myself, except with Marowak, of course. Suddenly, Rotom-W has two weaknesses, just as his typing should suggest! Zapdos is no longer immune either! EAT IT, THUNDURUS. Gravity is going to be so so fun, not to mention the fact that Sableye learns Gravity, and can toss up Gravity instantaneously before a fast Pokemon can Hypnosis, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, WoW, whatever status they prefer. The only bad thing about Gravity is that a lot of people are going to experiment with it I think, so it's going to be annoying dealing with that half of that group that wants to have a Status party, most notably sleep/paralysis that doesn't come from a Prankster Thundurus. Still, I can only hope to develop a strategy that takes the upper hand and make my Gravity trump another's. :x
 
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Braverius

snowls
is a Past SPL Champion
Can we please not throw large-scale concepts out there but instead define the team after it's built? Let's not try to fit the team into an archetype before it's even built here, the team's core being good is more important than fitting a theme. Suggest 2-3 mons that work well together and we'll go from there.

KyleCole's post is a great example of what I'd want to see more of.
 
Starting Point: Mega Gyarados + Amoongus


Explanation: So since this project is to help newer users, I think making a team around a set-up sweeper would be a very useful idea. On the ladder, you see bad players try to use set-up sweepers all the time, but they don't know how to properly support it or which set-up sweepers are even good. I feel Mega Gyarados is a solid set-up sweeper which has good bulk on both ends, the ability Intimidate before mega evolution, and Mold Breaker to defeat some of normal Gyarados's switch ins, such as Rotom-W. Dragon Dance is a great set-up move due to counteravting intimidate and also raising Gyarados's only average speed. There are many viable defensive and offensive Pokemon to help Gyarados set up and remove its counters, such as Amoongus. So, if we can make a team with the proper support so Mega Gyara can set up, it can sweep through teams easily.
 
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Dragonite+Bisharp
Maybe we could try something that hasn't been done before? Oooo
I haven't made a team with this combo yet, but I've been thinking about its potential. The two have some pretty serious defensive synergy and with LO on both of them could be very useful with an extremely powerful dual-priority core. It's a core that has its upsides against a variety of playstyles from sun to TR to balanced to HO and more. Bisharp can scare away Icy Wind and Intimidate users for Dragonite.
Just a little display of power. These things can take down Rotom-W with priority and do 90-107% combined dmg to max HP Suicune with STABs.
252+ Atk Life Orb Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 121-143 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 172-203 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 169-200 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 196-231 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
 
17:56 Pwnemon if someone posts swagkeys
17:56 Pwnemon and manages to
17:56 Pwnemon get it picked
17:57 Pwnemon i will give them perma hops itc

;)

Starting Point: Talonflame + Garchomp (Hyper offense core)

The idea behind this core is to make an easy team for a newer player to use and get the hang of doubles, while also providing more experienced players a good team with potential. Although both of these pokemon are good in the current metagame, they need a lot of support to cover their gaps in coverage, providing a teambuilding exercise. Some problems include Rotom-W, intimidate, and trick room, so balancing the core may prove to be a rewarding challenge. Something benefiting from a dead charizard or the huge offensive pressure from both these pokemon have the potential to shine :)
 
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Stratos

Banned deucer.
Starting Point:


Volcarona is still great in this metagame. People put more conscious effort into preparing for Fire-types, yes, but they also don't bring Rain all day errday and Scarftars if they don't have rain. I'm trying to bring Volcarona back into style by suggesting it for the first Teambuilding Workshop.
 

Level 51

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Starting point: Excadrill + Talonflame (possibly + Tyranitar)
(
)
Excadrill fell out of popular usage in BW2 due to the addition of Technician Breloom, capable of OHKOing it with Mach Punch and almost forcing all Excadrills to run Focus Sash. Thanks to our little avian friend here, we can remove the threat of Breloom (even possibly breaking sashes with Sandstorm if we run Sand Rush Exca) and also deal with other big threats to Excadrill like Garchomp, Scrafty, Hitmontop, and Conkeldurr!
 

realiti

formerly U-Turn Out
Starting Point: Charizard Y+ Hitmontop

Remember this project is to help newcomers, and this core is pretty easy to use. Basically, this core uses Charizard Y's great power and Hitmontop's utility supplies to function great in doubles. With Fake Out and Wide Guard Support, Charizard can get free turns to hit both opposing pokemon with Sun Boosted Heat Wave coming from a 159 base SpA. Wide Guard helps you dodge common spread moves(hits both opponents at once if you didn't know :P) like rock slide. Hitmontop can also hit Heatran with a CC, one of Charizard's main problems. If you want some priority, put sucker punch on hitmontop. If you want more power on Charizard, put helping hand. Hitmontop is just so good at giving help to Charizard, which can easily destroy teams. Intimidate also helps ease physical attacks. Solar Beam hits pesky water types, and protect for defensive utility. This core is great offensively and defensively, so it should be easy to use.

When i saw a new message, i almost thought someone ninja'd me...
EDIT: when you watch me trying to add images you'll scream
 
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Pocket

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Starting point: Excadrill + Talonflame (possibly + Tyranitar)
(
)
Excadrill fell out of popular usage in BW2 due to the addition of Technician Breloom, capable of OHKOing it with Mach Punch and almost forcing all Excadrills to run Focus Sash. Thanks to our little avian friend here, we can remove the threat of Breloom (even possibly breaking sashes with Sandstorm if we run Sand Rush Exca) and also deal with other big threats to Excadrill like Garchomp, Scrafty, Hitmontop, and Conkeldurr!
I dig this core. I would use Moldbreaker Excadrill here tbh, since its ability to crush Rotoms will make this combination that much more devastating. It also means that Tyranitar isn't mandatory, which allows for some more room for flexibility and creativity in the actual teambuilding phase.
 
i have used that core before (in my first xy team) and i can say that i absolutely love mold breaker excadrill as pocket suggested. i also paired it with a rotom-w of my own to beat lando-t, as well as pairing well with talonflame as it 4x resists grass
 
i have used that core before (in my first xy team) and i can say that i absolutely love mold breaker excadrill as pocket suggested. i also paired it with a rotom-w of my own to beat lando-t, as well as pairing well with talonflame as it 4x resists grass
My first Tutee actually had an amazing Scarf MB Drill set he surprised me with in our first game. If he ever logs into Smogon again I'll try and get the set from him because it is so very based.
 
Starting Point: Gravity + sleep clause.
To expand, Gravity works incredibly well with Hypnosis. So a good place to start is a bulky or fast Gravity setter, such as Mew, Dusclops or Sableye, and pair them with Hypnosis users. Mew is the best Gravity user imo, since it has access to Hypnosis, Gravity, Will-O-Wisp etc, and has good bulk to go along with it. Though Porygon2 is another viable user, and is bulkier than Mew.

Starting Point: Porygon2 + Mew

+


Explanation:

Mew is the epitome of jack of all trades, being able to do literally everything. This Mew however has the main goal of spreading around Hypnosis in Gravity. Gravity drops evasion 2 stages for all pokemon, meaning Hypnosis will hit just about every time, and unlike Spore, they're aren't any type immunities, so you can show that Amoonguss how it feels to be on the other end of sleep. Porygon2's job is to set up Gravity and tank hits, and it does those jobs incredibly well.
 
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To expand, Gravity works incredibly well with Hypnosis. So a good place to start is a bulky or fast Gravity setter, such as Mew, Dusclops or Sableye, and pair them with Hypnosis users. Mew is the best Gravity user imo, since it has access to Hypnosis, Gravity, Will-O-Wisp etc, and has good bulk to go along with it. Though Porygon2 is another viable user, and is bulkier than Mew.

Starting Point: Porygon2 + Mew

Explanation:

Mew is the epitome of jack of all trades, being able to do literally everything. This Mew however has the main goal of spreading around Hypnosis in Gravity. Gravity drops evasion 2 stages for all pokemon, meaning Hypnosis will hit just about every time, and unlike Spore, they're aren't any type immunities, so you can show that Amoonguss how it feels to be on the other end of sleep. Porygon2's job is to set up Gravity and tank hits, and it does those jobs incredibly well.
Starting Point: porygon2 + Mega gengar.

+
OR
+


we can go back to the old times.

Explanation: Gravity : For 5 turns, negates all Ground immunities, and it's very good for mega gengar! particularly in doubles because the earthquake, anyways mega gengar is very fast so it will help a lot more than mew and you have dream eater in mega gengar.
I love Hypnosis, Dream Eater, Nightmare and Protect. You can teach it to a Gengar. I will be like a new darkray but more not more easy to use. We can use clefable* too because you can got free turns to use cosmic power too. There are many strategies to use a Gravity + sleep clause team.

*Clefable can learn gravity too.
 
Starting Point: Quash

In my opinion the best quash pokemon is


Quash is really a kind of useless move without any use apart from possibly doubles. Its affect makes the opponent moves last provided that the opponent's move is of the same priority bracket as Quash (being 0 or a normal move).
Quash is generally a move for use in Doubles and Triples. It can be useful for revenge killing an opponent on low health by making them move last and having an ally finish them off without being harmed or guaranteeing a Pokemon gets to set up without worrying about a Taunt, for example.
There are definitely moves that were made for use only in Doubles like Helping Hand, and Quash is just another one of those.
The best use I could possibly think of is to make an opponent go after one of your Pokemon who uses a phazing move/trick room in a doubles battle.
It is however completely useless ingame so just let it sit there forever :P
 
Starting Point: Quash

In my opinion the best quash pokemon is


Quash is really a kind of useless move without any use apart from possibly doubles. Its affect makes the opponent moves last provided that the opponent's move is of the same priority bracket as Quash (being 0 or a normal move).
Quash is generally a move for use in Doubles and Triples. It can be useful for revenge killing an opponent on low health by making them move last and having an ally finish them off without being harmed or guaranteeing a Pokemon gets to set up without worrying about a Taunt, for example.
There are definitely moves that were made for use only in Doubles like Helping Hand, and Quash is just another one of those.
The best use I could possibly think of is to make an opponent go after one of your Pokemon who uses a phazing move/trick room in a doubles battle.
It is however completely useless ingame so just let it sit there forever :P
Ooo I have used my fair share of Quash!
A few uses:
Making every Dragon move after your Dragon
Making Amoonguss's Spore go before SubTran
Making Trick Room go before whatever they plan to stop it from going up
Making everything go before Mega Gengar's Perish Song or Substitute
Making anything in Trick Room or Tail Wind that is about to KO you go last

The whole problem is that Murkrow is not very bulky or offensively threatening. I have used Featherdance/Snarl/Roost/Quash Murkrow, but really it still dies...
-2 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Murkrow: 156-186 (48.1 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Murkrow: 168-198 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I have tried stacking it with WoW and Light Screen, but that's a lot of support for a support Pokemon. Its best use for me was allowing 252 HP Cube to get up a sub fast, stop the sub from breaking and making Cube faster than Latios(I played around with Dragon Tail a little bit too). I feel like this would be more of a research project/topic of the week than teambuilding workshop material though.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
I'd like to point out that the purpose of this exercise is to teach people how to build solid, consistent doubles teams that define the metagame—like the players in SPL do. As such, we should aim to pick proven starting points and build proven teams. There's a place for innovation, testing fun things, and building gimmick teams, but it's not this teambuilding workshop. So let's please stay away from things like QuashKrow, Gravity + Sleep (which isn't even a good gimmick for reasons ive explained in the sleep clause thread), and probably Dragonite too. I'm liking a lot of the other suggestions here, though, and they could definitely make a solid team. Sad I can't be there myself when this happens u__u
 

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