Doubles Viability Rankings (C- Votes if u care lol)

Amoonguss rises to A rank.

Breloom rises to A rank.

Gardevoir falls to B rank.

Staraptor is added to C rank.

Azumarill remains in B rank.

Ninetales remains in E rank.

Weavile is added to B rank.

Vivillon is added to D rank.

Jumpluff is added to D rank.

I will start the subdivisions of rankings in a bit. I want to talk to some people first, and I have stuff to do tonight. :o


 
Okay, let's start some discussion on Pokemon that qualify for A+ Rank. Do not submit a list of mons without justification and ask why I virtually slap you in the face.

We will have a separate voting round for the final placement, I just want to see some ideas and conclusions on what people think they will vote for and why.

S rank will stay in one piece for now. A-C are messy and need some cleaning.
 
Politoed-A+ rank. It has all the doubles tools it needs and more considering all you need is the rain. Bulk+Scald/Hydro+Perish Song/Helping Hand/Encore+Icy Wind/Ice Beam makes it a threat. Rain was sort of dead early gen 6, but Politoed really still is a great mon.
Terrakion-A+ rank. It accomplishes all it needs to attacking-wise with Rock Slide+Close Combat leaving room for Sub/Taunt/Quick Guard to make it a threat capable of fitting on many teams. It also has very favorable match ups against the premier megas in the tier.
Rotom-W-A+ rank. This thing's defensive typing, its access to eweb+WoW and its good coverage with STABs had it in S rank before. It is easily A+

Most of the others I am at least somewhat iffy about separating them from the rest of the A group.
Also please just put Bisharp in A already
 
Last edited:
Wait when did Rotom-W drop to A rank??? That's just stupid IMO, but A+ for sure if not S.

I'll look at the list more after work and expand this post, but had to express some disbelief really fast.
 
Ok, so here are some Pokemon who I feel would be good choices for A+

Amoonguss: Spore spam is great, Rage Powder is great, great bulk, and slow, meaning it can work well in Trick Room.
Excadrill: Under Sand Stream, it's a super powerful attacker who can demolish opposing teams, especially if it can get a Swords Dance up. Kinda hates Intimidate/Will-O-Wisp though, so I would be perfectly happy if this were A, too.
Hitmontop: Intimidate is an amazing ability, and Wide Guard is an amazing move. Fake Out is also great for immobilizing one of your opponent's Pokemon for a turn.
Mawile: Intimidate is amazing, and it's super powerful. Similar to Excadrill, though, in that it hates Will-O-Wisp/Intimidate, so once again could be A.
Politoed: Great supporter that can help its team/hurt the opponents team just by switching in. Also has good support movepool with things such as Icy Wind/Helping Hand.
Rotom-W: Pretty easy choice, Will-O-Wisp + Electroweb + Great typing + Great ability + Good all-around stats = A+ Rank
Talonflame: Immune to Will-O, priority Brave Bird + Flare Blitz to destroy Steels.
Terrakion: Great STAB combination with sky-high attack and good speed, also has good support movepool.
Thundy: Prankster + Good support movepool is awesome, also has great Special Attack and Speed.
Togekiss: Best user of Follow Me hands down, good bulk and surprisingly good offenses. Also has other good support moves in Helping Hand/Thunder Wave.
Venusaur: Under Sun, this thing is a monster, putting the opponent to Sleep while also dealing good damage, too. Decent stats/typing also means it isn't useless outside of Sun.

Anyways some of these are more "Could-be" A+ rank 'mons, but most of them I could see fitting in really well. :)
 
A+ candidates:

  • Amoonguss for being cancerously bulky, cancerously hard to wear down, cancerously annoying, etc. Use in TR for maximum tumors.
  • Bisharp (HOW THE FUCK IS THIS B-RANK HOWWWW) for hitting hard, completely raping teams that rely on Intimidate users and taking care of shit like TR as a bonus.
  • Kyurem-Black for having massive bulk and huge offenses and basically being something that should've stayed in Ubers imo. Scariest thing behind a sub.
  • Politoed for bringing rain, which is very powerful as of now. Pretty bulky too and can do some speed control and Encore shenanigans.
  • Rotom-W for having a superb typing, making it a great glue, and for being able to do so many things (speed control, burning shit, pivoting, hitting p. hard)
  • Talonflame for being able to hit hard af with priority + actually having a lot of useful support options (Taunt, W-o-W, Tailwind) and also being able to surprise with Swords Dance. Smogon bird.
  • Terrakion because being fast and strong is cool af, nothing much really switches in on it with total safety outside of some Intimidate users, Taunt/Quick Guard are rather valuable.
  • Thundurus for priority Twave, being strong, having an excellent speed stat, being able to use Prankster for many purposes, etc.
  • Togekiss because of its huge support movepool, being rather hard to kill off and its greatly improved typing.
That's about it I think.
 
Basically, what Alfons suggested. I am reluctant to put weather-reliant sweepers (Excadrill, Venusaur) in A+ because their consistency and effectiveness vary depending on how well you play with their respectice weather inducers.
 
Basically, what Alfons suggested. I am reluctant to put weather-reliant sweepers (Excadrill, Venusaur) in A+ because their consistency and effectiveness vary depending on how well you play with their respectice weather inducers.

Yeah, those were the "could-be" A+ I mentioned in my post. I mean while they're very effective, the fact that they're very reliant on weather to reach their maximum potential means they could definitely be placed lower.
 
Excadrill has a niche outside sand with Mold Breaker (Scarf MB is a FUCKING scary cleanup sweeper), and Venusaur's Mega Evo is also super good. They are still top tier even without Weather.
 
  • Bisharp (HOW THE FUCK IS THIS B-RANK HOWWWW) for hitting hard, completely raping teams that rely on Intimidate users and taking care of shit like TR as a bonus.
  • It's important to mention how one of bisharp's biggest appeals is how it completely deters intimidators when paired with another physical mon (hint mega kanga).
 
As an avid user of Amoonguss, I have to disagree with it being worthy of A+. Amoonguss is actually hard to fit onto a team in many situations - it has a nice typing that is great in some situations, but its weakness to Fire and extremely low Speed not only put it at a disadvantage against one of the strongest playstyles in the metagame (Sun offense) but can often drag a team down. It's also very one dimensional - when you see it you know pretty much exactly what it's going to do from team preview. It can't redirect attacks from some of the more dangerous attackers in the metagame either due to Grass ignoring Rage Powder (on top of it ignoring Spore). The metagame is already filled with Fighting-types too, which might seem like it's purely a boon for Amoonguss if they didn't just so happen to share two of their weaknesses with it - another point towards it being hard to fit on some teams.

Of course though, it still has some crazy upsides - its low Speed fucks up Trick Room, it resists some very prominent types in Water, Electric, Fairy, and Fighting, and it has some of the most powerful support moves in the metagame. It's still A rank for what it DOES do in my opinion, but A+ is reaching.

EDIT: this post is somewhat incoherent, I need to stop posting past midnight
 
Last edited:
first proper post in doubles for a while, heres my list of a+ rank mons

OK why the fuck did this stay in B rank??? I know I said I was on the fence about it previously, but I've definitely changed my mind by now. Bisharp is a great Pokemon in this meta, and it has all the tools it needs to perform its role marvelously. While Dark/Steel may not be the most appealing type defensively, especially with the omnipresence of Fighting-types such as Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Hitmontop and Scrafty, it's a great offensive typing, as it offers coverage on a large proportion of the metagames threats. In fact, the only two Pokemon in S, A or B rank that Dark/Steel doesn't hit for neutral damage are Keldeo and Lucario. Knock Off in particular is an amazing move, and Bisharp is insanely powerful with it, since it gets STAB and has massive Attack anyway. Any Pokemon (except megas and Sticky Hold mons) hates having its item taken away, so nothing wants to switch into a Bisharp. Sucker Punch is the perfect priority move for it, getting STAB and having a great base 80 power, so it is a powerful priority move that can be utilised against Pokemon that are trying to take either you or a teammate out. Also, a lot of teams rely on Intimidate mons to take physical attacks. With Defiant, Bisharp turns this against them, getting boosted Attack and just destroying face. Overall a really good Pokemon, though certainly not deserving of S rank, partially thanks to its weakness to spread moves and common offensive types.
Just an insanely strong Pokemon in general. With 100 base Attack and Huge Power, this things offensive prowess reaches monstrous levels, and it can really use this to wreck pretty much everything with the right move. Unfortunately, it can only use 4 moves, so can't hit everything it wants to. However, when it does hit stuff, that stuff generally dies. While the low speed can be an issue sometimes, it makes Mawile a great candidate for Trick Room, and provides TR offense with a solid hard hitting Pokemon to break down walls. Steel/Fairy is an incredibly sexy type both offensively and defensively, though opposing Steel-types are irritating, especially Heatran as it 4x resists both Iron Head and Play Rough. Overall an incredibly hard hitting little Pokemon, though the fact that it takes up your mega slot can be irritating at times, it is almost always worth it.
Gonna keep this one short since everyone else has mentioned it already. It brings rain, which is a pretty good playstyle right now, and makes many other Pokemon such as Ludicolo and Kingdra more viable. Also Politoed functions pretty well as a Pokemon on its own, providing speed control with Icy Wind, and other support such as Encore and Helping Hand. Worthy of A+.
OK don't actually have time to write anything about the others, but the other Pokemon that should be A+ rank in my opinion are: Terrakion, Thundurus, Togekiss and Rotom-W.

Some Pokemon I'd be OK with putting in A+ are Kyurem-B, Garchomp, and Excadrill, but I'm on the fence about those. Really hesitant about Talonflame - while it is a useful way to revenge kill low health Pokemon / Pokemon weak to Flying, it hardly manages to do much else outside of that except set up Tailwind occasionally. I also find it to be disappointingly weak without a Choice Band, which has more prominent drawbacks in Doubles, especially if compared to OU.

edit: i also agree with arcticblasts post above, amoonguss isnt a+ worthy imo
 
Bisharp is B rank. You all had the chance to vote for it in A rank but you didn't. Wait for the end of the ranking splits to nom it up again.
 
Bisharp is B rank. You all had the chance to vote for it in A rank but you didn't. Wait for the end of the ranking splits to nom it up again.

Gonna agree here, but also because Bisharp's role in the Metagame fluctuates. If Intimidate is high, Bisharp comes up. If Trick Room is hot, so is Bisharp. I find Bisharp to be so amazingly good in countering popular Metagame trends, yet it falls off a bit if the opponent doesn't bring a TR or Intimidate spam team. It is powerful and is a great pick on at least 25-30% of teams (which s actually a whole lot), but because it is so trend dependent on being successful, I see it as a Low A Rank mon at best, maybe Middle, but not nearly as Metagame defining as something like Rotom-W, Politoed, and KyuB.
 
Mons to A+ imo:

445.png
When making dragon / steel / fairy core, Chomp is the best physical option imo. It checks Kang with Rough skin and counters CharY and Heatran with pebbles and quakes. Also outspeeds them.

237.png
Fake out + intimidate are pretty good for phasing. STAB CC is also more threatening than Srafty's movepool imo. Also Wide Guard is good support for flying and steel types, forcing some mons to run moves like Fire Blast instead of Heat Wave.

492s.png
Outspeeds almost everything in meta and if it can't OHKO something, it can always hax with flinches. Also its bulk is great and can't be OHKOed by many mons if they don't carry an ice move.

639.png
Probably the only fighting type that can deal easily with CharY.

663.png
is pretty big threat to many teams, beacause fire / flying is good coverage and both BB and FB hit really hard. The life orb variant is also unpredictable, as it can protect, WoW, Tailwind or taunt. Not to mention the Natural Gift Heatran countermeasure, which is topkek.


Other mons that could be in A+ are
646-b.png
303.png
186.png
642.png
468.png
, however i don't think they are as threatening when compared to S rank and the ones I mentioned. Others should stay in A imo.
 
Gonna agree here, but also because Bisharp's role in the Metagame fluctuates. If Intimidate is high, Bisharp comes up. If Trick Room is hot, so is Bisharp. I find Bisharp to be so amazingly good in countering popular Metagame trends, yet it falls off a bit if the opponent doesn't bring a TR or Intimidate spam team. It is powerful and is a great pick on at least 25-30% of teams (which s actually a whole lot), but because it is so trend dependent on being successful, I see it as a Low A Rank mon at best, maybe Middle, but not nearly as Metagame defining as something like Rotom-W, Politoed, and KyuB.
Trick Room and bulky offense packing Intimidate have been metagame trends since the beginning of Doubles (and probably in vgc before that). Being trend dependant doesn't really seem like a problem if the trends it depend on are there constantly.

Also sash screws a lot with hyperoffense if that happens to be the trend, so suddenly it isn't even that trend dependant. I see Bisharp as an overall solid Pokemon that got a juicy typing boost with the new generation and Knock Off boost to back that up.
 
I'm a bit alarmed that almost 75% of all Pokemon currently in A tier have been nominated for A+. A lot of people are nominating Pokemon for reasons that are too vague, already acknowledged in their current placement, or not directly related to what we are supposed to be looking for in an A+ tier Pokemon.

Remember, we are nominating A+ Tier Pokemon. These Pokemon are supposed to be absurdly good- almost as good as the S tier Pokemon. Their viability level is actually closer to being S-tier than to being A tier or A- tier like the other Pokemon that we have to work with. Thus, we can't simply settle for "this Pokemon is fast and powerful and counters threat A." ALL of the Pokemon we have to consider for A+ tier have already been approved as A tier Pokemon- thus, ALL of them already have some high degree of viability. When we nominate something for A+ tier, they have to be BETTER than just "this Pokemon is fast and powerful and counters threat A." If we are nominating almost all of the current A tier Pokemon for A+, then there really isn't any point in having an A+ tier in the first place.

If the A tier requirements are
Reserved for Pokemon that function very well within the current Doubles metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are either able to perform multiple roles to great effect, or execute one extremely well. Support Pokemon in this tier can create free turns, but not as easily as those in the S Rank.The flaws that the Pokemon in this tier may have are usually mitigated by their positive traits, or with minimal team support.
then for A+ we need to take it up a notch. We need Pokemon that function extremely well, just between S tier and the rest of the not-A+ A tier Pokemon. We're looking for Pokemon that are not only fast and powerful but fulfill a specific niche better than anything else. We're looking for Pokemon that not only are fast and powerful but also have important coverage to beat multiple threats. We're looking for Pokemon that are not only fast and powerful but also bulky enough, be it through typing or defenses, to last for a long amount of time during matches to maximize damage output. Or, if they're in A for their ability to support, they need to have an expansive movepool, a unique and useful combination of typing / ability / moves, and the ability to sponge multiple hits for their partners.


Thus, here are the reasons why I DO NOT feel that the following nominated Pokemon belong in A+ tier:

HITMONTOP
In my opinion, Hitmontop's viability is often over-exaggerated. Intimidate and Fake Out is a unique combination, but outside of that and Wide Guard / Quick Guard support, Hitmontop struggles to really secure a presence on the field. It's kind of weak; not weak enough for it to fall out of A tier but not powerful enough for it to be A+ tier either, and its reliance on Close Combat really cancels out any form of bulk that it hopes to have, especially since its Close Combat is not powerful enough to OHKO a lot of key threats that other Close Combats (Terrakion's mainly) would be able to. Its support ability is great, but it doesn't efficiently balance support / offense, leaving it on the borderline for both, and not suitable for A+ tier, in my opinion.

SHAYMIN-S
It's fast and powerful, so definitely worth A tier, but unfortunately its strongest attack, Seed Flare, has an unruly chance to miss, and when it does, you kind of get fucked over since almost every Pokemon carries a move that can hit Shaymin-S super effectively OR just use sheer power to beat it. Air Slash flinches are eh, it's not as if they're as useful in Doubles as they are in Singles. Also, it relies on Life Orb to become powerful, and is worn down so quickly.



If you compare those two with other powerhouse, A+ obvious Pokemon like:

Thundurus-I:
~Priority Thunder Wave gives one of the best forms of Speed control out there
~Really fast, has great coverage
~Moderate bulk, with a unique defensive typing

Rotom-W:
~Really bulky
~Access to support moves such as Will-o-Wisp
~Electroweb provides reliable Speed control
~Superb defensive typing helps it wall a lot of threats



I hope this clears up a lot of confusion.
 
Rotom-W:
~Electroweb provides reliable Speed control

who the hell uses that
and as a side note, it has 95% acc so it is not as reliable. Just mentioning this because you said that 85% Seed Flare misses too much. Btw you can always go for Energy Ball, but its like Blue Flare vs Flamethrower.
 
I agree with Electrolyte completely. I actually feel as if mons like Hitmontop and Talonflame should be A- rank. A+(also known as borderline S) is definitely not for mons that compromise their bulk with their only viable STAB. A+ mons need to be mons that you could see yourself being able to put on almost any team and accomplishing something positive. With Talonflame you're playing 6-5 a lot of the time because it just can't switch-in on a lot of things. Even powerful resisted attacks will debilitate it. Hitmontop on the other hand has the opposite problem. It can switch in and out all day, but after the threat of turn 1-2 Fake Out/Feint/Wide Guard/-1 Attack surprise then it is almost dead-weight sitting on the field and can actually generate momentum for your opponent. Helping Hand can alleviate this problem some, but at that point every Fake Out/WoW/powerful attack is coming at your partner and not many things want to fight a 1v2 battle even with Helping Hand. It sucks for Top because in gen 5, the threat of max attack gem close combat could actually put a lot of threats on death row, but now I find it hard to justify it consistently over Scrafty and Kanga. These two mons are really great at what they do so much to the point that they made it to A rank, but to put them any closer to S rank mons is wrong.

Also, whissp electroweb is actually very popular. It allows Rotom-W to beat Charizard-Y without resorting to an awkward bulky Choice Specs set, takes the prediction game out of hitting fast switch-ins, and can allow your partner to beat certain threats with a properly timed Protect+E-Web to slow them down. It also does a cumulative 82.5 BP worth of dmg which is not bad compared to 90 BP on neutral Thunderbolt and can be used to knock out weak opponents while crippling the other. The only reason it isn't on every Rotom-W is because of the opportunity cost of losing Protect or Will-O-Wisp.
 
who the hell uses that
Not many people, but that is more to blame on the fact that most people have no idea that it gets Electroweb than it is to blame on it for being bad. It's actually really good and you're doing yourself a disservice by not considering it :o
 
who the hell uses that
and as a side note, it has 95% acc so it is not as reliable. Just mentioning this because you said that 85% Seed Flare misses too much. Btw you can always go for Energy Ball, but its like Blue Flare vs Flamethrower.
What the fuck? Since when is 95% considered unreliable? (Okay maybe if you're me then this phrase would be valid) but you're not me so you can't really complain about a tiny 5% chance of missing. The difference in power between blue flare and flamethrower is far too huge (40bp difference) to turn it down for 15% accuracy increase, same for seed flare. Although they might be "more reliable" they fail to get ko's that the stronger variants would.
 
Yeah, after having used Hitmontop some, I can definitely see what you mean by being a "Dead weight" a lot of the times. I mean even with Adamant and Attack investment, it still really isn't dishing out a lot of damage. Factor in that it's best STAB lowers it's defenses, and I can defiantly see it being placed in A.

Skymin's a Pokemon I didn't mention because while it is very effective, it's very frail, meaning if it can't OHKO the opponent, the opponent will usually OHKO it. Also Seed Flare miss definitely sucks :( Overall, A rank mon for sure, but not good enough for A+ imo

Also, maybe this is just me, but Talonflame would be a pretty strong choice for A+. Priority Brave Bird is really great, as it either does a ton of just OHKOs. Priority Tailwind is another move Talonflame has that's great for team support. Speeding up your entire team puts a lot of pressure on the opponent, as if they're using more frail, faster 'mons, they can be in for a world of hurt. I've also been using Will-O-Wisp on Talonflame recently and it's been working out surprisingly well, as its large Speed stat allows it to cripple other Pokemon quickly and easily. I think Talonflame's general frailty and low 80 base Attack are what keep it out of S rank, but outside of that, I find it a really great choice for A+.

Also I really don't agree with the notion that you're playing 5-6 a lot of matches, mainly because I feel either you're leading with Talonflame or you're saving it late-game. Not only that, but I find that a serious over exaggeration of Talonflame's bulk; it can, at the very least, tank a few neutral in order to switch in.

I mean I'm not SUPER intent on letting Talonflame into A+, but I find A- to be a serious crime to Talonflame's helpful support and amazing revenge killing abilities it brings to the team.
 
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 168-199 (56.3 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 138-162 (46.3 - 54.3%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 212-250 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 183-216 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 108-128 (36.2 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 159-187 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(some of these are better with 76 hp but whatever)

And dealing 100% dmg to anything with at least uninvested base 80 hp deals 33% back assuming no LO. 48% in the case of Kyurem-B for example which has base 125 hp. Don't get me wrong, I use Talonflame a lot and its fantastic, but when you are 2hko'd by resisted attacks then you're playing 5-6 until something on your team dies and you already are 5-6 for it to come in. The only times I've found it easy to switch in is on HO teams where the opponent is forced to use Protect or switch to avoid dying, but that also requires a lot of prediction. Even something like Amoonguss that you threaten can't be switched in on directly for fear of Spore. A sleeping Pokemon with 78/71/69 bulk is pretty much dead. I don't think its presence on HO teams and as a late-gamer/lead is enough to put it on the same level as these other Pokemon that pose a threat on a wide-variety of teams throughout the entire battle.
 
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 168-199 (56.3 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 138-162 (46.3 - 54.3%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 212-250 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 183-216 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 108-128 (36.2 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 159-187 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(some of these are better with 76 hp but whatever)

And dealing 100% dmg to anything with at least uninvested base 80 hp deals 33% back assuming no LO. 48% in the case of Kyurem-B for example which has base 125 hp. Don't get me wrong, I use Talonflame a lot and its fantastic, but when you are 2hko'd by resisted attacks then you're playing 5-6 until something on your team dies and you already are 5-6 for it to come in. The only times I've found it easy to switch in is on HO teams where the opponent is forced to use Protect or switch to avoid dying, but that also requires a lot of prediction. Even something like Amoonguss that you threaten can't be switched in on directly for fear of Spore. A sleeping Pokemon with 78/71/69 bulk is pretty much dead. I don't think its presence on HO teams and as a late-gamer/lead is enough to put it on the same level as these other Pokemon that pose a threat on a wide-variety of teams throughout the entire battle.

You definitely make fair points. However, even with these issues, I still do feel that A- is much too low for it for the reasons I've previously mentioned. A rank would probably suit it best.

And also just to be fair a lot of Pokemon that normally threaten Amoonguss can't safely switch into it due to the threat of Spore.
 
Talonflame is debatable, but I'd say what truly puts it in A+ is not really solely its offensive capability but also its unique support options. A fast Will-o-Wisp definitely makes it hard to revenge kill it; even if you are to try to beat it with Terrakion, you're pretty much sure to be crippled with a burn and then made almost useless for the rest of the match afterwards. Also, it is one of the only Pokemon that get priority for Tailwind, and even outspeeds Prankster Taunt Thundurus-I, making it one of the most reliable setters of the move. Those two things, as well as the fact that it gets one of the strongest priority moves in the game, make it great both offensively and supportively.

Jake's comments about recoil are valid, but tbh Brave Bird / Flare Blitz is not something that you just spam, so smart playing can easily tone down the amount of recoil that you have to take. Also, it gets Prankster Roost, which somewhat makes up for it if you can fit the move in.
 
Back
Top