I don't understand this logic. Just because Rotom-W gets walled by an irrelevant mon (according to the viability list) is not a good enough reason to move it down to A-Rank. By this logic, Heatran should move down to A-Rank because it gets walled by Rotom-W, Rotom-H, and Politoed.
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Doubles Viability Rankings (C- Votes if u care lol)
- Thread starter Lolk
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No one really ever does.
Regardless, I don't see what big changes Rotom-W got (other than an item choice and a slight buff to WoW) that justify S Rank this Gen.
And Gastrodon WAS in B Rank I believe in the pre-Bank Viability thread. I didn't see that it had gotten
Might as well throw in my two cents.
Amoonguss dropping from A to B
This I agree with unless Sleep Clause gets removed. With Togekiss around and its only advantage being Electric- and Water-type resistances and the ability to cripple one opponent with Spore, the mushroom just doesn't cut it for A Rank. It's still great, particularly for putting a stopper on annoying Rotom-W sets, but with Charizard Y and Talonflame running amok its not quite as useful as it might seem. Not to mention opposing Grass-types like Breloom now ignore Rage Powder, making Follow Me slightly better as a move anyway.
Aegislash rising from B to A
Definitely backing this. The ability to be annoyingly bulky and hit annoyingly hard is great. A mention I haven't seen yet is Substitute Aegislash, which can be incredibly annoying since Substitute will guard from WoW, Thunder Wave, etc, so you can use King's Shield safely (set of the year imo). Wide Guard is also a great move for Aegislash to have.
Gengar rising from B to A
I'm borderline here. Gengar is certainly useful in that it's a Ghost-type, but in comparison to others (Trevenant, Aegislash, Jellicent) its not all that bulky, which is something Ghost-types will tend to need when Sucker Punches from Kangashkan, Bisharp, and others will be flying around (among many other attacks, of course). The reason I'm borderline is because I do recognize that Gengar-Mega's sky high speed in tandem with Will O' Wisp can be pretty useful in this metagame, and trapping opponents can be useful for heavily limiting the opposition's options.
Rotom-W dropping from S to A
I agree with this. I recognize Rotom-W's ability to counter a lot of common threats in the metagame, but S Rank demands a lot from anything, particularly a lack of flaws. I can name two off the bat in that it gets walled by Grass- and Dragon-types without using up a slot for Hidden Power and it doesn't have as much bulk as it wants, with only 50 / 105 / 105 defenses. It also suffers from a case of four moveslot syndrome, as depending on what it runs it will be open to specific threats.
Adding Reuniclus to B
Not a big fan of Reuniclus, but yes I can agree with this.
Dusclops rising from C to B
A Trick Room setter that is forced to be extremely vulnerable to the weaknesses of a standard Trick Room setter in order to stand out (aka predictable as it gets). Not B Rank material imo, keep it where it belongs.
Rhyperior rising from C to B
Backing this for B Rank, not simply because of Trick Room, but because of its ability to use either Lightningrod or Solid Rock to good effect. Its probably one of the best answers to Thundurus out there. It also hits hard and can work with Thunder Wave (and Tailwind to a lesser extent) support as well as Trick Room. That's all there really is to it.
Slowbro dropping from B to C
I'm fine with this.
Bisharp rising from C to B
I agree here. While it certainly has trouble with common Intimidate-mons (especially Scrafty) it can always pressure the other Pokemon on the field with a +1 Sucker Punch and certainly discourages Intimidate without consequences when played right. Also, did I mention how awesome Shiny Bisharp is? One final special mention to Choice Band Bisharp for being a heavy hitting troll.
Heatran dropping from S to A
I agree with this, which is mildly funny I guess since I probably cannot build a team without it nowadays. The big flaw that holds Heatran back from S Rank greatness is the 4x Ground weakness. As obvious as this is, this compound weakness means there is more or less no Ground-type move (at least none that someone would use in a serious match) it will survive without Shuca Berry. Fighting-type and Water-type weaknesses aren't very fun either. Common threats like Kangashkan, Landorus-T, Hitmontop, Scrafty, Rotom-W, Garchomp, etc, can all stop it in its tracks.
Volcarona rising from B to A
I'm a bit borderline here just because Fire-types seem to have become the big thing in Doubles (see Heatran, Talonflame, Charizard), but as long as it has the support to get those trolls out of the way it can outright sweep teams so I think I'll support this.
Also I'm going to add some nominations of my own.
Jellicent from C to A
A lot of people underrate Jellicent's utility as a Trick Room setter and nuisance in general. A great typing grants it resistances/immunities to common attacking types (Ice-, Fighting-, Fire-, etc) and it has efficient 100 / 70 / 105 defenses. Oh, it also can check Heatran and the majority of Fighting-types, as well as Kangashkan once it has Mega-Evolved. Along with other options such as WoW, Water Spout, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam, Recover, Energy Ball, and Taunt, Jellicent is a Pokemon to be ready for. It has its fair share of problems of course, most notably Electric- and Dark-type weaknesses.
Virizion for B Rank
Similar to Breloom (you assume at first sight it would be outclassed), but it has its advantages in higher speed and access to Taunt and Quick Guard. It also has better bulk.
Amoonguss dropping from A to B
This I agree with unless Sleep Clause gets removed. With Togekiss around and its only advantage being Electric- and Water-type resistances and the ability to cripple one opponent with Spore, the mushroom just doesn't cut it for A Rank. It's still great, particularly for putting a stopper on annoying Rotom-W sets, but with Charizard Y and Talonflame running amok its not quite as useful as it might seem. Not to mention opposing Grass-types like Breloom now ignore Rage Powder, making Follow Me slightly better as a move anyway.
Aegislash rising from B to A
Definitely backing this. The ability to be annoyingly bulky and hit annoyingly hard is great. A mention I haven't seen yet is Substitute Aegislash, which can be incredibly annoying since Substitute will guard from WoW, Thunder Wave, etc, so you can use King's Shield safely (set of the year imo). Wide Guard is also a great move for Aegislash to have.
Gengar rising from B to A
I'm borderline here. Gengar is certainly useful in that it's a Ghost-type, but in comparison to others (Trevenant, Aegislash, Jellicent) its not all that bulky, which is something Ghost-types will tend to need when Sucker Punches from Kangashkan, Bisharp, and others will be flying around (among many other attacks, of course). The reason I'm borderline is because I do recognize that Gengar-Mega's sky high speed in tandem with Will O' Wisp can be pretty useful in this metagame, and trapping opponents can be useful for heavily limiting the opposition's options.
Rotom-W dropping from S to A
I agree with this. I recognize Rotom-W's ability to counter a lot of common threats in the metagame, but S Rank demands a lot from anything, particularly a lack of flaws. I can name two off the bat in that it gets walled by Grass- and Dragon-types without using up a slot for Hidden Power and it doesn't have as much bulk as it wants, with only 50 / 105 / 105 defenses. It also suffers from a case of four moveslot syndrome, as depending on what it runs it will be open to specific threats.
Adding Reuniclus to B
Not a big fan of Reuniclus, but yes I can agree with this.
Dusclops rising from C to B
A Trick Room setter that is forced to be extremely vulnerable to the weaknesses of a standard Trick Room setter in order to stand out (aka predictable as it gets). Not B Rank material imo, keep it where it belongs.
Rhyperior rising from C to B
Backing this for B Rank, not simply because of Trick Room, but because of its ability to use either Lightningrod or Solid Rock to good effect. Its probably one of the best answers to Thundurus out there. It also hits hard and can work with Thunder Wave (and Tailwind to a lesser extent) support as well as Trick Room. That's all there really is to it.
Slowbro dropping from B to C
I'm fine with this.
Bisharp rising from C to B
I agree here. While it certainly has trouble with common Intimidate-mons (especially Scrafty) it can always pressure the other Pokemon on the field with a +1 Sucker Punch and certainly discourages Intimidate without consequences when played right. Also, did I mention how awesome Shiny Bisharp is? One final special mention to Choice Band Bisharp for being a heavy hitting troll.
Heatran dropping from S to A
I agree with this, which is mildly funny I guess since I probably cannot build a team without it nowadays. The big flaw that holds Heatran back from S Rank greatness is the 4x Ground weakness. As obvious as this is, this compound weakness means there is more or less no Ground-type move (at least none that someone would use in a serious match) it will survive without Shuca Berry. Fighting-type and Water-type weaknesses aren't very fun either. Common threats like Kangashkan, Landorus-T, Hitmontop, Scrafty, Rotom-W, Garchomp, etc, can all stop it in its tracks.
Volcarona rising from B to A
I'm a bit borderline here just because Fire-types seem to have become the big thing in Doubles (see Heatran, Talonflame, Charizard), but as long as it has the support to get those trolls out of the way it can outright sweep teams so I think I'll support this.
Also I'm going to add some nominations of my own.
Jellicent from C to A
A lot of people underrate Jellicent's utility as a Trick Room setter and nuisance in general. A great typing grants it resistances/immunities to common attacking types (Ice-, Fighting-, Fire-, etc) and it has efficient 100 / 70 / 105 defenses. Oh, it also can check Heatran and the majority of Fighting-types, as well as Kangashkan once it has Mega-Evolved. Along with other options such as WoW, Water Spout, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam, Recover, Energy Ball, and Taunt, Jellicent is a Pokemon to be ready for. It has its fair share of problems of course, most notably Electric- and Dark-type weaknesses.
Virizion for B Rank
Similar to Breloom (you assume at first sight it would be outclassed), but it has its advantages in higher speed and access to Taunt and Quick Guard. It also has better bulk.
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Jellicent does have more to deal with this gen. It no longer gets Water Gem + Water Spout. Ghost and Dark are more common attacking types, although Ghost being neutral against Steel helps Jellicent too. Knock Off will probably see more use, picking on Jellicent's weaker Defense stat and held item.
I don't know how I'd rank it. I'm just throwing it out there for argument's sake.
I don't know how I'd rank it. I'm just throwing it out there for argument's sake.
I seriously think that Cresselia has to move down to A rank if Rotom W or Heatran does.
Also, I think it is safe to bump Aegislash+Jellicent and maybe Gastrodon up, Slowbro down and add Reuniclus to B rank based on general consensus.
Zygarde's SubProtect set earns it upper B-rank imo. Speaking of which, I think B rank could easily be broken in half since it is huge and about half of the mons are clearly better than the other half.
Also, I think it is safe to bump Aegislash+Jellicent and maybe Gastrodon up, Slowbro down and add Reuniclus to B rank based on general consensus.
Zygarde's SubProtect set earns it upper B-rank imo. Speaking of which, I think B rank could easily be broken in half since it is huge and about half of the mons are clearly better than the other half.
Cresselia is a picture perfect definition of an S-Rank Pokemon.
It is able to preform multiple roles well thanks to its incredible bulk, providing Trick Room Support, Helping Hand support, Anti-Trick Room support and Speed control. It does not create an opening for the opponent thanks to the threat of Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, ad Trick Room. Its only flaw is that it has horrendous offensive presence, but this is mitigates by an offensive partner such as Landorus-T and to the lesser extent, its own Helping Hand support. Rotom-W and Heatran do indeed have more noticeable flaws then Cresselia and even though I don't agree with moving them down, I understand why the opposition would.
I agree with this completely. A large amount of the mediocre mons (Slowking, Klefki etc.) should be separated from the stuff that actually really good (Latias, Hydreigon, etc.) and like you said, a large amount of the mons are clearly better than the other half.
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Latias A Rank please? Also, Klefki is easily B Rank. Prankster EVERYTHING. It has the movepool to abuse it just like Whimsi and Thundy do, but gets some different options (like Screens.)
He was saying that Latias is upper B rank and Klefki is lower B rank. Which is correct imo
Latias has a more discernable niche(dragon is a pretty great defensive typing in this meta and it only competes with dnite/fatmence) and more reason to use it while Klefki competes with like every pokemon that has a viable support option.
There a very few attacks in the metagame that can OHKO Cresselia. Compared to Rotom-W as a support Pokemon, there is a clear difference in bulk and consistency (it is much easier to switch Cress in overall, though Rotom-W has some useful resistances that Cress would love to steal).
As for when it comes to the currently "untiered" Pokemon:
Breloom- Obvious A Rank imo. While priority Brave Bird is now around, Breloom still has Technician Mach Punch and Bullet Seed, as well as Spore. It also ignores fellow Grass-type's Rage Powders and is immune to Spore now, both of which are useful.
Venusaur- A Rank. Maybe B. Whether its pairing up with Charizard Y to demolish things or Mega-Evolving to become an incredibly bulky troll, Venusaur will deliver consistently.
Zygarde- B Rank. Possibly C. It has nice bulk and a great typing but Garchomp does steal a lot of the limelight from it. It will definitely do the job, just make sure you aren't running something Garchomp would do better.
And partially because of boredom I'll list some stuff that should (probably) be on the list.
Machamp- B Rank. It's essentially a mix of Hitmontop's Wide/Quick Guard support and Conkeldurr's offensive presence. And No Guard DynamicPunch and Stone Edge are as good as ever.
Parasect- C Rank. While it is essentially a worse Amoonguss it now has Wide Guard which means it has an advantage over the mushroom. Bug-type STAB also has its uses. Other than that there is absolutely no reason to use it (except maybe Water-type immunity).
Swampert- C Rank. Pretty useful with Water- and Ground-type STAB, Ice Punch/Avalanche, and Wide Guard. Unfortunately, it has very little going for it apart from that.
Torterra- C Rank. Maybe B but that's a bit of a stretch. With Wide Guard access capable of protecting it from Blizzard/Heat Wave, Torterra has become a fairly plausible choice with its unique Grass / Ground typing. It can OHKO threats like Rotom-W and Heatran and possesses Spore, Rage Powder, and Thunder Wave immunity. The two big problems it faces are its common Fire- and Ice-type weaknesses (Ice Beam will almost always kill it if it doesn't hold Yache) and its low speed (can be an advantage in Trick Room, though). It's defenses and Attack stat are both distinctly average as well.
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I should just stop there.
Cresselia is presumably the most bulky and one of the most versatile supportive Pokemon.
Cresselia has access to all of the following: Helping Hand, Icy Wind, Trick Room, Thunder Wave, Skill Swap, Light Screen, Reflect, and Safeguard.
Cresselia has only a single typing, which goes very well with its MINDBOGGLING BULK, since powerful super effective attacks don't even KO it.
I am probably mostly flexible on dropping Rotom-W if anything from S rank due to the reasons stated by Nollsy, but Cress? That's just plain stupid.
Most of those things are very applicable to the singles metagame(ok some of them, but none of them are too awesome of prospects) and yet Cresselia was RU. It isn't out of this world to think it isn't one of the number one pokemon. I also said only if Rotom W or Heatran drop.
Edit: I think Cress vs Rotom is being graded based on theorymon bc in practice, having a 110 base power STAB water move+105 sAtt and WoW alone puts in a lot more work than anything Cresselia does on average. And Cresselia is super predictable unlike Rotom which can go scarf, vest, or specs too. Cress comes out and you know that every bulky offense poke you have isn't really going to give a shit about what it does.
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Remember to comment on all of the locked nominations! The change won't happen if there is a solid majority, so everyone's input matters!
My input:
Amoonguss dropping from A to B
The Grass-type nerf didn't hurt Amoonguss too bad considering the lack of viable Grass-types. Amoonguss is a great partner for any setup sweeper, and when played well, can wreck offensive teams. That being said, Togekiss does the exact same thing and has more Speed, offensive pressure, and arguably more utility. Being Fire bait really sucks too. That being said, they both work well against different Pokemon so I can't really say one is better than the other. I see it in a low A spot right now.
Aegislash rising from B to A
This I can definitely agree with. Aegislash is probably my favorite Wide Guard user in Doubles. At first, I only put it on my team because Pwnemon kept trolling me with Mega-Scizor, but on the ladder, it does so much work. Its most common threats carry Heat Wave and Earthquake, making Aegislash (and it's partner) troll them. Its typing is sexy, King's Shield is fun (I run special Aegislash so WoW doesn't matter), and it packs good offensive coverage with its STABs alone. Definitely A-Rank.
Gengar rising from B to A
I have never used Gengar, but when I play it on the ladder, it always succumbs to offensive pressure. I would say no, but Idk how good my opponents are cause I might just be a perfect battler :). I will trust everyone else's judgement.
Rotom-W dropping from S to A
People keep saying that because it has like 2 hard counters that it should drop. The sheer versatility of this Pokemon is incredible, the same reason Cresselia is S. While it wishes it has Cress's bulk, optional recovery and its ability to cockblock many top threats is just as attractive. Please keep this in S.
Adding Reuniclus to B
This thing is definitely scary under Trick Room. It doesn't perform very well when it tries to set up Trick Room and sweep because too much pressure is put on it and it usually fails. But as a supported sweeper, yikes. B rank sounds good.
Dusclops rising from C to B
I could actually see this. While Cresselia is obviously more reliable, Dusclops does have Will-O-Wisp and Night Shade, preventing it from being setup fodder better than Cress.
Slowbro dropping from B to C
Yes.
Rhyperior rising from C to B.
Nothing is working well for Rhyperior in this meta, with Intimidate, Wide Guard, and offensive pressure everywhere. I have never seen a Rhyperior successfully sweep, even under Trick Room.
Bisharp rising from C to B
I am a hypocrite for the things i just said. The meta is really offensive right now and a strong Sucker Punch that benefits from Intimidate is pretty cool.
Volcarona rising from B to A
Volcarona is too frail and slow for an offensive Pokemon in doubles standards. Why would use it over Zard or Tran ever? Rage Powder? Sure use it once and kill myself. Volcarona only works well setting up Quiver Dance with a Follow Me/Rage Powder scenario. This is the definition of a B rank Pokemon.
My input:
Amoonguss dropping from A to B
The Grass-type nerf didn't hurt Amoonguss too bad considering the lack of viable Grass-types. Amoonguss is a great partner for any setup sweeper, and when played well, can wreck offensive teams. That being said, Togekiss does the exact same thing and has more Speed, offensive pressure, and arguably more utility. Being Fire bait really sucks too. That being said, they both work well against different Pokemon so I can't really say one is better than the other. I see it in a low A spot right now.
Aegislash rising from B to A
This I can definitely agree with. Aegislash is probably my favorite Wide Guard user in Doubles. At first, I only put it on my team because Pwnemon kept trolling me with Mega-Scizor, but on the ladder, it does so much work. Its most common threats carry Heat Wave and Earthquake, making Aegislash (and it's partner) troll them. Its typing is sexy, King's Shield is fun (I run special Aegislash so WoW doesn't matter), and it packs good offensive coverage with its STABs alone. Definitely A-Rank.
Gengar rising from B to A
I have never used Gengar, but when I play it on the ladder, it always succumbs to offensive pressure. I would say no, but Idk how good my opponents are cause I might just be a perfect battler :). I will trust everyone else's judgement.
Rotom-W dropping from S to A
People keep saying that because it has like 2 hard counters that it should drop. The sheer versatility of this Pokemon is incredible, the same reason Cresselia is S. While it wishes it has Cress's bulk, optional recovery and its ability to cockblock many top threats is just as attractive. Please keep this in S.
Adding Reuniclus to B
This thing is definitely scary under Trick Room. It doesn't perform very well when it tries to set up Trick Room and sweep because too much pressure is put on it and it usually fails. But as a supported sweeper, yikes. B rank sounds good.
Dusclops rising from C to B
I could actually see this. While Cresselia is obviously more reliable, Dusclops does have Will-O-Wisp and Night Shade, preventing it from being setup fodder better than Cress.
Slowbro dropping from B to C
Yes.
Rhyperior rising from C to B.
Nothing is working well for Rhyperior in this meta, with Intimidate, Wide Guard, and offensive pressure everywhere. I have never seen a Rhyperior successfully sweep, even under Trick Room.
Bisharp rising from C to B
I am a hypocrite for the things i just said. The meta is really offensive right now and a strong Sucker Punch that benefits from Intimidate is pretty cool.
Volcarona rising from B to A
Volcarona is too frail and slow for an offensive Pokemon in doubles standards. Why would use it over Zard or Tran ever? Rage Powder? Sure use it once and kill myself. Volcarona only works well setting up Quiver Dance with a Follow Me/Rage Powder scenario. This is the definition of a B rank Pokemon.
I have no idea how you consider Cresselia predictable. It can potentially be running one of three forms of speed control, Helping Hand, Safeguard and Swagger, Sunny Day/Rain Dance, ChestoRest, Light Screen/Reflect, Offensive Calm Mind... Heck you yourself owe one of our matches to CMRestTalk Cress (And it is demanding an apology).
Don't forget EBelt.
That would be one of the staple items on Offensive Calm Mind. But yeah you can use it without CM too.
-EDIT- (to avoid double posting)
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
Total damage: 76.2 - 90.0%
Do I get a prize?
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The following decisions have been made:
Aegislash is rising to A rank.
Dusclops will remain in C rank.
Rhyperior will remain in C rank.
Bisharp will rise to B rank.
Slowbro will fall to C rank.
Heatran will remain in S rank.
The following changes' votes were too even and need more discussion:
Rotom-W dropping from S rank to A rank.
Amoonguss dropping from A rank to B rank.
Gengar rising from B rank to A rank.
Volcarona rising from B rank to A rank.
Also please discuss the placement of the untiered Pokemon this round. Nominations will remain locked for the next two days as the discussion mentioned above is higher priority. Any nominations will be ignored.
P.S. I really enjoy the format used by most posters by listing the nomination change in bold and putting your thoughts underneath :) It makes everything much easier!
Also congratulations Magcargo 2 for your post to be the first entrance into the Hall of Fame!
Aegislash is rising to A rank.
Dusclops will remain in C rank.
Rhyperior will remain in C rank.
Bisharp will rise to B rank.
Slowbro will fall to C rank.
Heatran will remain in S rank.
The following changes' votes were too even and need more discussion:
Rotom-W dropping from S rank to A rank.
Amoonguss dropping from A rank to B rank.
Gengar rising from B rank to A rank.
Volcarona rising from B rank to A rank.
Also please discuss the placement of the untiered Pokemon this round. Nominations will remain locked for the next two days as the discussion mentioned above is higher priority. Any nominations will be ignored.
P.S. I really enjoy the format used by most posters by listing the nomination change in bold and putting your thoughts underneath :) It makes everything much easier!
Also congratulations Magcargo 2 for your post to be the first entrance into the Hall of Fame!
Gengar rising form B rank to A rank
Gengar is a a great mon when it comes to controlling the field. Shadow Tag combined with excellent offensive stats, perfect coverage, disruptive support options and Ghost STAB makes for a excellent counter to TR (setters die or get Taunted) and weather setters (who simply can't switch in) on top of just being generally threatening. It works great at enabling your team's own setup and letting you fight in optimal conditions, since Shadow Tag means Gengar and it's partner no longer have to worry about checks and counters switching in. In its own way it even works to block Intimidate.
That said Gengar's flaws are pretty heavy. Its frail, it takes up your MEvo, it has no slow-mode and is crippled by speed control, it has mediocre spread options, and it's very weak to priority. All it really takes to beat Gengar is to just double attack it with moderately powerful attacks. It also suffers from 4MSS, since it wants everything of its awesome coverage, Protect, and its support/utility moves, but won't ever be able to fit them all without giving up something.
I feel like Gengar is pretty situational since its weaknesses are potentially so dire, but in the right place at the right time it can completely prevent your opponent from doing anything to stop you from walking all over them. Still, even on teams that it does fit on, there are times where the opposing team will simply exert too much offensive pressure for Gengar to safely be on the field trapping things. You could argue it fulfills its unique role extremely well, but only half the time, and half the time for a Pokemon that doesn't have enough other stuff going for it doesn't cut it for A rank. B rank seems fitting.
Gengar is a a great mon when it comes to controlling the field. Shadow Tag combined with excellent offensive stats, perfect coverage, disruptive support options and Ghost STAB makes for a excellent counter to TR (setters die or get Taunted) and weather setters (who simply can't switch in) on top of just being generally threatening. It works great at enabling your team's own setup and letting you fight in optimal conditions, since Shadow Tag means Gengar and it's partner no longer have to worry about checks and counters switching in. In its own way it even works to block Intimidate.
That said Gengar's flaws are pretty heavy. Its frail, it takes up your MEvo, it has no slow-mode and is crippled by speed control, it has mediocre spread options, and it's very weak to priority. All it really takes to beat Gengar is to just double attack it with moderately powerful attacks. It also suffers from 4MSS, since it wants everything of its awesome coverage, Protect, and its support/utility moves, but won't ever be able to fit them all without giving up something.
I feel like Gengar is pretty situational since its weaknesses are potentially so dire, but in the right place at the right time it can completely prevent your opponent from doing anything to stop you from walking all over them. Still, even on teams that it does fit on, there are times where the opposing team will simply exert too much offensive pressure for Gengar to safely be on the field trapping things. You could argue it fulfills its unique role extremely well, but only half the time, and half the time for a Pokemon that doesn't have enough other stuff going for it doesn't cut it for A rank. B rank seems fitting.
Alright, I will go a in depth on each of these Pokemon.
Rotom-W is, imo, a clear A rank by now. It was a definite S rank back before Pokebank was released due to the popularity of Talonflame, T-Tar, Mawile, etc., but I doubt its performance is S rank-worthy, now that there is a wider pool of Pokemon to choose from. The metagame has, by now, developed to revolve around really powerful Pokemon such as Mega Charizard Y and Mega Kangaskhan, and Rotom-W just does not cut it as a bulky mon with its pitiful base 50 HP stat. Sure, it checks Heatran, but even they have started to run Speed enough to outpace Rotom-W and "stall" it out with SubProtect (By "stall", I obviously mean kill it with your partner, lol actual stall sux in dubs).
With its godsend of a typing, it remains a powerful glue to almost any team out there, facing very little competition from other Pokemon of its typing(s), but its overall stats don't really complement this amazing typing. Furthermore, the stats don't really complement each other that well either; its defensive stats are good, but its HP is terrible, its Special Attack stat is good, but its Speed is middling. This obviously won't stop Rotom-W from fulfilling its unique role, but it does limit it to a potential lower than that of amazing mons such as Mega Kangaskhan or Cresselia who perform their roles almost optimally and always consistently. I think we need to face cold fact: its stats honestly just don't cut it for S-rank. Rotom-W from S to A rank
Amoonguss is definitely no A rank. Fire-types are all over the place in this metagame. Unfortunately, the Spore and Rage Powder nerf also no longer allows it to counter Grass-types, and Grass-types can now even take advantage of Amoonguss' presence. I'd say you'll need gigantic problems with Washtom if you are going to be having this thing on your non-TR team. Honestly, I see no justification for this Pokemon to be in a tier amongst titans like Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Genesect. Amoonguss from A to B rank
Gengar is definitely the toughest choice from these four nominations. I know I nominated it for A myself, but now I'm not so sure anymore. It does have a fantastic STAB attack and a cool Mega Forme with an outstanding ability, but it is unfortunately extremely frail. Shadow Ball is also not a very high BP move, so despite having amazing SpA and great coverage, sometimes it's just not powerful enough to nab those OHKOs.
It's best merit is its ability to counter the living shit out of Trick Room. With the combination of STAB super effective hits for all of Ghost-types, Psychic-types, and Aromatisse, both of its formes can prevent TR from being set very efficiently. This is obviously a big help to many fast, offensive Pokemon, including Gengar itself. I am going to vote blank on this nomination for now, as I believe I need a little bit more experience with using it before I can convince myself it should be moved. Gengar staying in B rank
edit: shit I got ninja'd on this one :( ^
Volcarona is easily A rank in my honest opinion. It has two solid roles, and both are performed very well by it: Offensive Rage Powder supporter, and late-game Quiver Dance sweeper. With new mechanics and Pokemon that greatly help Volcarona in doing its job of sweeping (Wide Guard / Quick Guard buff + arrival of powerful Fake Out user Mega Kangas), and even though not as good as it could be, still can use Rage Powder to good effect, completely cockblocking Fighting-, Grass-, and Bug-type attacks, as well as being generally specially bulky.
The only reason I could see justification for it staying in B rank is because some may say it is overshaded, or even outclassed, by Heatran and MegaZard Y in many ways, due to having similar roles and resistances, but those two Pokemon can't late-game sweep nearly as well as a Volcarona with the right setup That said, I think Volcarona easily has two roles unique and solid enough to warrant an A rank Pokemon. Volcarona from B to A rank
Holy shit I was not expecting to write so much about these Pokemon, but there you have it =]
Rotom-W is, imo, a clear A rank by now. It was a definite S rank back before Pokebank was released due to the popularity of Talonflame, T-Tar, Mawile, etc., but I doubt its performance is S rank-worthy, now that there is a wider pool of Pokemon to choose from. The metagame has, by now, developed to revolve around really powerful Pokemon such as Mega Charizard Y and Mega Kangaskhan, and Rotom-W just does not cut it as a bulky mon with its pitiful base 50 HP stat. Sure, it checks Heatran, but even they have started to run Speed enough to outpace Rotom-W and "stall" it out with SubProtect (By "stall", I obviously mean kill it with your partner, lol actual stall sux in dubs).
With its godsend of a typing, it remains a powerful glue to almost any team out there, facing very little competition from other Pokemon of its typing(s), but its overall stats don't really complement this amazing typing. Furthermore, the stats don't really complement each other that well either; its defensive stats are good, but its HP is terrible, its Special Attack stat is good, but its Speed is middling. This obviously won't stop Rotom-W from fulfilling its unique role, but it does limit it to a potential lower than that of amazing mons such as Mega Kangaskhan or Cresselia who perform their roles almost optimally and always consistently. I think we need to face cold fact: its stats honestly just don't cut it for S-rank. Rotom-W from S to A rank
Amoonguss is definitely no A rank. Fire-types are all over the place in this metagame. Unfortunately, the Spore and Rage Powder nerf also no longer allows it to counter Grass-types, and Grass-types can now even take advantage of Amoonguss' presence. I'd say you'll need gigantic problems with Washtom if you are going to be having this thing on your non-TR team. Honestly, I see no justification for this Pokemon to be in a tier amongst titans like Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Genesect. Amoonguss from A to B rank
Gengar is definitely the toughest choice from these four nominations. I know I nominated it for A myself, but now I'm not so sure anymore. It does have a fantastic STAB attack and a cool Mega Forme with an outstanding ability, but it is unfortunately extremely frail. Shadow Ball is also not a very high BP move, so despite having amazing SpA and great coverage, sometimes it's just not powerful enough to nab those OHKOs.
It's best merit is its ability to counter the living shit out of Trick Room. With the combination of STAB super effective hits for all of Ghost-types, Psychic-types, and Aromatisse, both of its formes can prevent TR from being set very efficiently. This is obviously a big help to many fast, offensive Pokemon, including Gengar itself. I am going to vote blank on this nomination for now, as I believe I need a little bit more experience with using it before I can convince myself it should be moved. Gengar staying in B rank
edit: shit I got ninja'd on this one :( ^
Volcarona is easily A rank in my honest opinion. It has two solid roles, and both are performed very well by it: Offensive Rage Powder supporter, and late-game Quiver Dance sweeper. With new mechanics and Pokemon that greatly help Volcarona in doing its job of sweeping (Wide Guard / Quick Guard buff + arrival of powerful Fake Out user Mega Kangas), and even though not as good as it could be, still can use Rage Powder to good effect, completely cockblocking Fighting-, Grass-, and Bug-type attacks, as well as being generally specially bulky.
The only reason I could see justification for it staying in B rank is because some may say it is overshaded, or even outclassed, by Heatran and MegaZard Y in many ways, due to having similar roles and resistances, but those two Pokemon can't late-game sweep nearly as well as a Volcarona with the right setup That said, I think Volcarona easily has two roles unique and solid enough to warrant an A rank Pokemon. Volcarona from B to A rank
Holy shit I was not expecting to write so much about these Pokemon, but there you have it =]
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Rotom-W dropping from S to A
Idk I still think Rotom-W's versatility, typing, bulk, ability, and offenses are enough to warrant S rank. While some individual sets might not be the best in the tier, the fact that it can run many good sets with a surprise factor in each of them warrants a position on the top.
Amoonguss dropping from A to B
Yea I guess I agree with Laga that nothing in the meta seems to be going right for it. It is set up fodder for most and easily snipe-able by too many common threats. It's not like it will be able to do satisfactory damage to the Pokemon it puts to sleep with Spore. Spread moves are becoming more and more common, especially Heat Wave, limiting Amoonguss's potential even further. But still, Rage Powder + Bulk is sooooo good. considering the recurring theme of all rank descriptions is creating free turns for the opponent, Amoonguss fits this description perfectly as a supporting Pokemon. As long as the opponent doesn't have Heat Wave, your partner has as many free turns as it needs, While the meta has put a lot of pressure on it, I still see Amoonguss as beneficial to the team as any other A ranks. The cons don't just yet outweigh the pros. While the ideal spot for me is A-/B+, I am gonna lean towards A for now.
Gengar rising from B to A
Yea I think I understand Gengar better after laddering for a bit longer. It functions very well as a revenge killer, allowing itself and its partner control of the match. Too many times I have tried to gang up on it while it uses Protect, gaining its partner a free turn. While its opponents need a good chunk of damage to KO, the lack of Choice Scarfs in Doubles adds to Gengar's favor. Capable of powerhousing late game, picking off specific threats, and granting its partner a free turn or two earns this guy a spot in A.
Volcarona rising form B to A
Too many times have Volcaronas used Rage Powder only to die to my faster Pokemon's attack while my other Pokemon still gets to hit the opponent it wants to. It is too frail for Doubles and its Speed misses out on too many threats. It rarely survives a Quiver Dance and many priority attacks take it out anyway. I am a hater. Keep this in B.
After looking back my team is legit 6 Volcarona Counters: Azumarill, Heatran, Wide Guard Aegi, Skymin, Assault Vest Scraft w/ stone edge, and Kanga. I am too harsh on the ugly bug. :(
Venusaur
With Charizard-Y partnering, this guy is almost uncounterable in the Sun. Anything can be stopped with Sleep Powder, and its Coverage is pretty decent, only losing to Steel-types (which sun teams eat for dinner). And don't say it isn't usable outside of the sun. Mega-Venusaur makes a great bulky pivot with its resistances, recovery with Giga Drain, and its sweet bulk. Talonflame is scary though :(, but not scary enough to keep this guy out of A Rank.
Zygarde
Zygarde is my definition of "meh". Yea Land's Wrath is cool, it beats Heatran, and it has decent bulk, but all of its perks are easily exploitable. Wide Guard reks it, and most Pokemon can outspeed and 2HKO it. It has never wow'ed me in a battle, but it is still a decent mon. B Rank.
Breloom
I am a hater. This guy is slow and frail. O yay Spore. O wait the opponent attacked me? Now i am ded. O yay Mach Punch. Didn't KO? I am ded. I am a hater. C Rank.
I am pretty sure I did this right because I disagreed with everything Laga says.
Idk I still think Rotom-W's versatility, typing, bulk, ability, and offenses are enough to warrant S rank. While some individual sets might not be the best in the tier, the fact that it can run many good sets with a surprise factor in each of them warrants a position on the top.
Amoonguss dropping from A to B
Yea I guess I agree with Laga that nothing in the meta seems to be going right for it. It is set up fodder for most and easily snipe-able by too many common threats. It's not like it will be able to do satisfactory damage to the Pokemon it puts to sleep with Spore. Spread moves are becoming more and more common, especially Heat Wave, limiting Amoonguss's potential even further. But still, Rage Powder + Bulk is sooooo good. considering the recurring theme of all rank descriptions is creating free turns for the opponent, Amoonguss fits this description perfectly as a supporting Pokemon. As long as the opponent doesn't have Heat Wave, your partner has as many free turns as it needs, While the meta has put a lot of pressure on it, I still see Amoonguss as beneficial to the team as any other A ranks. The cons don't just yet outweigh the pros. While the ideal spot for me is A-/B+, I am gonna lean towards A for now.
Gengar rising from B to A
Yea I think I understand Gengar better after laddering for a bit longer. It functions very well as a revenge killer, allowing itself and its partner control of the match. Too many times I have tried to gang up on it while it uses Protect, gaining its partner a free turn. While its opponents need a good chunk of damage to KO, the lack of Choice Scarfs in Doubles adds to Gengar's favor. Capable of powerhousing late game, picking off specific threats, and granting its partner a free turn or two earns this guy a spot in A.
After looking back my team is legit 6 Volcarona Counters: Azumarill, Heatran, Wide Guard Aegi, Skymin, Assault Vest Scraft w/ stone edge, and Kanga. I am too harsh on the ugly bug. :(
Venusaur
With Charizard-Y partnering, this guy is almost uncounterable in the Sun. Anything can be stopped with Sleep Powder, and its Coverage is pretty decent, only losing to Steel-types (which sun teams eat for dinner). And don't say it isn't usable outside of the sun. Mega-Venusaur makes a great bulky pivot with its resistances, recovery with Giga Drain, and its sweet bulk. Talonflame is scary though :(, but not scary enough to keep this guy out of A Rank.
Zygarde
Zygarde is my definition of "meh". Yea Land's Wrath is cool, it beats Heatran, and it has decent bulk, but all of its perks are easily exploitable. Wide Guard reks it, and most Pokemon can outspeed and 2HKO it. It has never wow'ed me in a battle, but it is still a decent mon. B Rank.
Breloom
I am a hater. This guy is slow and frail. O yay Spore. O wait the opponent attacked me? Now i am ded. O yay Mach Punch. Didn't KO? I am ded. I am a hater. C Rank.
I am pretty sure I did this right because I disagreed with everything Laga says.
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I'm not the most experienced so bare with me if I'm woefully incorrect. I do support Amoong going from A to B but the reasons you listed aren't valid sadly bar the first point. Fire types are definitely everywhere thanks to how dominant zardY is, that and subtran gives it hell however amoong shouldn't be up against either of those without tr support/sleep clause active anyhow so it's something to note but definitely not where it lacks. The spore/rage powder nerf doesn't mean that much to amoong since it only effects four common mons (abomna, ferro, fellow amoong, and trevanant) none of which amoong would be up again anyhow though being unable to nail them on the switch hurts quite abit. Though grass types are still relatively uncommon so I believe that although the spore/powder move nerf does hurt it abit, it definitely can still excel at its role quite well. Your point about amoong being in the same placement is pretty faulty since mons should be tiered based on how well they fare against the rest of the metagame and not what else resides in said tier placement.
Rotom-W
S-RANK
Reserved for the top threats in the Doubles metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support.
While it is true Rotom-W can perform multiple roles, depending on which one it chooses to fulfill there will always be some sort of problem it faces (i.e. Choice Scarf doesn't hit as hard as you want sometimes and makes Rotom-W relatively frail, Support Rotom has a case of Four Moveslot Syndrome, etc). While it is certainly arguable, I do not think it can perform multiple roles to "tremendous" effect. As a support Pokemon alone, Rotom is not S Rank material, as its limited bulk will make switching in rather difficult and it will often not have the time to use WoW, Light Screen, etc (at least this is what I have found when using it). I'd go on but Laga has more or less covered it. A Rank imo.
Amoonguss
Lolkomori's basic argument is that it is A Rank more or less due to Rage Powder. I point out that B Rank is a place for "somewhat outclassed" Pokemon. It is somewhat (maybe a bit more than that even) outclassed by Togekiss, who has Encore, Roost, Helping Hand, Tailwind, Thunder Wave, Follow Me (which is slightly better than Rage Powder due to the Grass-type buffs), and plenty of offensive options, as well as an arguably better typing. This is why Amoonguss is B Rank. Nuff said.
Gengar
After some thought, I believe Gengar should stay in B Rank. While its true is has nice speed, sky high offensive power, and nice support options like WoW and Taunt, it faces a lot of competition from other Ghost-types, namely Jellicent (who is incredibly underranked just to annoy everyone about it again :>), Trevenant, Chandelure, and Aegislash, who not only have better bulk but don't cost you a slot for your Mega Evolution. It has its advantages in damage output and speed of course, but this does not warrant it a place in A Rank imo.
(*doesn't have anything to say about Volcarona tbh*)
And I already discussed my opinions on our untiered friends so I see no need to repeat myself (also Lolk for Breloom hater of the year imo)
Also:
^This might be why
S-RANK
Reserved for the top threats in the Doubles metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support.
While it is true Rotom-W can perform multiple roles, depending on which one it chooses to fulfill there will always be some sort of problem it faces (i.e. Choice Scarf doesn't hit as hard as you want sometimes and makes Rotom-W relatively frail, Support Rotom has a case of Four Moveslot Syndrome, etc). While it is certainly arguable, I do not think it can perform multiple roles to "tremendous" effect. As a support Pokemon alone, Rotom is not S Rank material, as its limited bulk will make switching in rather difficult and it will often not have the time to use WoW, Light Screen, etc (at least this is what I have found when using it). I'd go on but Laga has more or less covered it. A Rank imo.
Amoonguss
Lolkomori's basic argument is that it is A Rank more or less due to Rage Powder. I point out that B Rank is a place for "somewhat outclassed" Pokemon. It is somewhat (maybe a bit more than that even) outclassed by Togekiss, who has Encore, Roost, Helping Hand, Tailwind, Thunder Wave, Follow Me (which is slightly better than Rage Powder due to the Grass-type buffs), and plenty of offensive options, as well as an arguably better typing. This is why Amoonguss is B Rank. Nuff said.
Gengar
After some thought, I believe Gengar should stay in B Rank. While its true is has nice speed, sky high offensive power, and nice support options like WoW and Taunt, it faces a lot of competition from other Ghost-types, namely Jellicent (who is incredibly underranked just to annoy everyone about it again :>), Trevenant, Chandelure, and Aegislash, who not only have better bulk but don't cost you a slot for your Mega Evolution. It has its advantages in damage output and speed of course, but this does not warrant it a place in A Rank imo.
(*doesn't have anything to say about Volcarona tbh*)
And I already discussed my opinions on our untiered friends so I see no need to repeat myself (also Lolk for Breloom hater of the year imo)
Also:
^This might be why
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This is another reason why Amoonguss is definitely not an A rank Pokemon. If you have to run specific support in order for your supportive Pokemon to properly function, then that is somewhat of a tiny niche. Niche Pokemon do not belong in A rank, but since I think we already have come to an agreement about Amoonguss dropping, I'll just end my post here...
edit: lol this
ffs that post was potentially hall of fame worthy, y u have to disagree ;_;lolk said:
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Rotom-W for S
I can go either way tbh. I personally think that its ability to actually punch some holes in the opposing team while having good bulk with useful resistances / immunities and little exploitable weaknesses makes up for its inferior defenses and smaller utility options compared to Cresselia.
Amoonguss for B
I agree with Laga and Nollan. The Rage Powder nerf hurts it a lot moreso than the Spore nerf. Now it cannot protect the team from dangerous Grass-type users like Shaymin-S, Breloom, and Venusaur. Free turns to Charizard and Heatran sucks, too. People are increasingly looking towards alternative Follow Me / Rage Powder users, and now Togekiss is pretty much the go-to mon for Follow Me support. Amoonguss should not be in the same rank as Togekiss.
Volcarona for A
Yep, agreeing with everyone here (sans Lolk :P). The Wide Guard / Quick Guard buff really helps Volcarona set up, and it can be truly unstoppable after a few boosts. Volcarona certainly appreciates the frequent dry seasons of XY Doubles xD. Fire-type also comes in handy for dealing with some difficult threats like Fairy- and Steel-types. Bug-type is a nice alternative STAB to get past Latios, Cresselia, and Tyranitar.
Breloom for B
Still gets the job done by putting something to sleep with a perfect-accurate Spore (fuck Sleep Powder). Mach Punch comes in handy to terrorize Bisharp and Tyranitar (and anything else in KO range), and Bullet Seed wrecks Rotom-W. Resistance to QuakeSlide is great. However, its STABs are walled by so many dangerous mons like Charizard, Latios, Aegislash, Shaymin-S, Chandelure, Trevenant, Talonflame, and aforementioned Volcarona. Giving free turns to these mons is dangerous, and Breloom can potentially be a liability after putting something to sleep. This is why, I would place him in B for now.
Zygarde for B
It is eclipsed by Garchomp. Zygarde does have some distinct moves like Dragon Dance, Land's Wrath, and ExtremeSpeed to set itself apart from the landshark, but 100 Atk leaves much to be desired. Also Garchomp's 102 base Speed makes such a large difference in this tier. In a Garchomp-less tier, Zygarde will most likely be A rank, but atm there's very little reason to use Zygarde over Garchomp. Only teams that lacks sufficient EQ-immune mons would consider this poor man's Garchomp, imo. That said, it's an overall stellar mon, so it's worthy of a B rank.
I can go either way tbh. I personally think that its ability to actually punch some holes in the opposing team while having good bulk with useful resistances / immunities and little exploitable weaknesses makes up for its inferior defenses and smaller utility options compared to Cresselia.
Amoonguss for B
I agree with Laga and Nollan. The Rage Powder nerf hurts it a lot moreso than the Spore nerf. Now it cannot protect the team from dangerous Grass-type users like Shaymin-S, Breloom, and Venusaur. Free turns to Charizard and Heatran sucks, too. People are increasingly looking towards alternative Follow Me / Rage Powder users, and now Togekiss is pretty much the go-to mon for Follow Me support. Amoonguss should not be in the same rank as Togekiss.
Volcarona for A
Yep, agreeing with everyone here (sans Lolk :P). The Wide Guard / Quick Guard buff really helps Volcarona set up, and it can be truly unstoppable after a few boosts. Volcarona certainly appreciates the frequent dry seasons of XY Doubles xD. Fire-type also comes in handy for dealing with some difficult threats like Fairy- and Steel-types. Bug-type is a nice alternative STAB to get past Latios, Cresselia, and Tyranitar.
Breloom for B
Still gets the job done by putting something to sleep with a perfect-accurate Spore (fuck Sleep Powder). Mach Punch comes in handy to terrorize Bisharp and Tyranitar (and anything else in KO range), and Bullet Seed wrecks Rotom-W. Resistance to QuakeSlide is great. However, its STABs are walled by so many dangerous mons like Charizard, Latios, Aegislash, Shaymin-S, Chandelure, Trevenant, Talonflame, and aforementioned Volcarona. Giving free turns to these mons is dangerous, and Breloom can potentially be a liability after putting something to sleep. This is why, I would place him in B for now.
Zygarde for B
It is eclipsed by Garchomp. Zygarde does have some distinct moves like Dragon Dance, Land's Wrath, and ExtremeSpeed to set itself apart from the landshark, but 100 Atk leaves much to be desired. Also Garchomp's 102 base Speed makes such a large difference in this tier. In a Garchomp-less tier, Zygarde will most likely be A rank, but atm there's very little reason to use Zygarde over Garchomp. Only teams that lacks sufficient EQ-immune mons would consider this poor man's Garchomp, imo. That said, it's an overall stellar mon, so it's worthy of a B rank.
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Rotom-W dropping from S rank to A rank.
Yeah, Rotom-W is still top caliber, but IMO it no longer has the stuff needed for S Rank. Its bulk can lead to it having serious shortcomings at times, and the versatility isn't really THAT big of a deal. It is still a solid contender for being amongst the champions of doubles, but it really doesn't have the stuff it needs to stand among the legends.
Amoonguss dropping from A rank to B rank.
Yeah, rise of fire types and sleep nerfs took kind of a dump on the shroom. Rage Powder nerf was just the final nail in the coffin. It's outclassed and rather crapped on by the meta at the moment, and I wouldn't be surprised if it finds itself even falling to C rank. Being able to not do your job properly sucks p bad.
Gengar rising from B rank to A rank.
Nah. Mega-Gengar is fairly frail, and its punch, while stinging, leaves much to be desired from its bulk. Given how a stiff fart could OHKO Gengar, and how Shadow Ball BP lets it down against things it can't use posion against, it is a pretty meh offensive mon. However, since it can still demolish trick room, it still has enough going for it to keep it in B rank.
Volcarona rising from B rank to A rank.
I agree with this. Volcarona was already borderline A caliber in BW, and XY just made it so much better with the various defensive move buffs. All it needs is the one turn to start doing massive work, and if it gets two you might as well type 'gg'. It resists over half the priority moves in the game and it's only weak to one as well which is a huge perk for a set up sweeper in doubs. Finally, Volcarona just has sexy base stats all around and can work even without setting up. For all of these reasons, I think it deserves to be A rank, but I COULD see it being a B rank, due to requiring some support.
Yeah, Rotom-W is still top caliber, but IMO it no longer has the stuff needed for S Rank. Its bulk can lead to it having serious shortcomings at times, and the versatility isn't really THAT big of a deal. It is still a solid contender for being amongst the champions of doubles, but it really doesn't have the stuff it needs to stand among the legends.
Amoonguss dropping from A rank to B rank.
Yeah, rise of fire types and sleep nerfs took kind of a dump on the shroom. Rage Powder nerf was just the final nail in the coffin. It's outclassed and rather crapped on by the meta at the moment, and I wouldn't be surprised if it finds itself even falling to C rank. Being able to not do your job properly sucks p bad.
Gengar rising from B rank to A rank.
Nah. Mega-Gengar is fairly frail, and its punch, while stinging, leaves much to be desired from its bulk. Given how a stiff fart could OHKO Gengar, and how Shadow Ball BP lets it down against things it can't use posion against, it is a pretty meh offensive mon. However, since it can still demolish trick room, it still has enough going for it to keep it in B rank.
Volcarona rising from B rank to A rank.
I agree with this. Volcarona was already borderline A caliber in BW, and XY just made it so much better with the various defensive move buffs. All it needs is the one turn to start doing massive work, and if it gets two you might as well type 'gg'. It resists over half the priority moves in the game and it's only weak to one as well which is a huge perk for a set up sweeper in doubs. Finally, Volcarona just has sexy base stats all around and can work even without setting up. For all of these reasons, I think it deserves to be A rank, but I COULD see it being a B rank, due to requiring some support.