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Doubles Viability Rankings (C- Votes if u care lol)
- Thread starter Lolk
- Start date
With the description change, Machamp and Entei for C-rank for sure
Weavile C-rank too - I nominated it after all. And it's closer to B rank than D rank in my opinion.
Gourgiest-S for B-rank too.
The main reason for this is that Gourg is better for faster and more reliable support and getting your support used as quickly as possible thanks to its better bulk and Frisk (additional support that Trev shouldn't be providing else it gives up Harvest). Frisk is an underrated ability and is great for scouting - in Biosci's SPL replay, it detected Weakness Policy on Scrafty. Its bulk is even better with Intimidate support. For example, 252 HP / 0 Def Trev takes 157.7 - 186% from CB Talonflame; it won't even survive with Intimidate support. 252 HP / 0 Def Gourg will have no problem surviving with Intimidate support. This means that Gourg can get that crucial TR up, use Will-O-Wisp, or Light Screen. The SpD difference is minimal. Trev is better if you want to set it up multiple times though thanks to infinite recovery with Sitrus + Harvest, want more attack power, or Ghost-STAB (Shadow Claw, and it even utilise Phantom Force better as it gives Harvest chances to activate), though you have to make an effort to keep it away from hard hitting STABs that can KO it. However, Pain Split is useful if you want Gourg to last longer.
Gourg also has Light Screen, which gels well with Will-O-Wisp. With 100 base attack, Seed Bomb has good power for a wall, though sadly it's affected by Intimidate and burn and doesn't compare to Wood Hammer. Even with only one reliable STAB, it can still leave its mark with Will-O-WisP, Leech Seed, and Pain Split.
In short, Gourg-S is not outclassed by Trev and has multiple reasons to be used over Trev.
Weavile C-rank too - I nominated it after all. And it's closer to B rank than D rank in my opinion.
Gourgiest-S for B-rank too.
The main reason for this is that Gourg is better for faster and more reliable support and getting your support used as quickly as possible thanks to its better bulk and Frisk (additional support that Trev shouldn't be providing else it gives up Harvest). Frisk is an underrated ability and is great for scouting - in Biosci's SPL replay, it detected Weakness Policy on Scrafty. Its bulk is even better with Intimidate support. For example, 252 HP / 0 Def Trev takes 157.7 - 186% from CB Talonflame; it won't even survive with Intimidate support. 252 HP / 0 Def Gourg will have no problem surviving with Intimidate support. This means that Gourg can get that crucial TR up, use Will-O-Wisp, or Light Screen. The SpD difference is minimal. Trev is better if you want to set it up multiple times though thanks to infinite recovery with Sitrus + Harvest, want more attack power, or Ghost-STAB (Shadow Claw, and it even utilise Phantom Force better as it gives Harvest chances to activate), though you have to make an effort to keep it away from hard hitting STABs that can KO it. However, Pain Split is useful if you want Gourg to last longer.
Gourg also has Light Screen, which gels well with Will-O-Wisp. With 100 base attack, Seed Bomb has good power for a wall, though sadly it's affected by Intimidate and burn and doesn't compare to Wood Hammer. Even with only one reliable STAB, it can still leave its mark with Will-O-WisP, Leech Seed, and Pain Split.
In short, Gourg-S is not outclassed by Trev and has multiple reasons to be used over Trev.
this isn't directly related to the ranking of any Pokemon, but when we're talking about gourgeist, can we clarify which s we're talking about? In this case its fairly clear you're talking about super, but its best if you clarify at some point at the start of the post, or simply use gourgeist-h (huge) instead of super. That is all n_n
Ludicolo rises to A rank.
Gourgeist-S is added to B rank.
Weavile is added to C rank.
Machamp remains in C rank.
Blastoise falls to C rank.
Malamar is added to C rank.
Entei FALLS to C rank.
Dragonite remains in B rank.
Goodra is added to B rank.
Zygarde falls to C rank.
I am adding Lasagne 's post to the hall of fame :)
Keep in mind that I have altered the descriptions to make B rank more elitist and C rank more open. If you think something in C is way better than some other C rank Pokemon, consider nomming them to drop to D rank. Since there are so many mons to fit in these rankings, I am deeply considering dropping the Pokemon we put in D rank to show they are bad (like Ninetales and Blissey) into E rank and making D slightly nicer as well, but no one has talked to me about it yet so we'll see.
Don't nominate anything that has recently been discussed, nominations are unlocked.
Gourgeist-S is added to B rank.
Weavile is added to C rank.
Machamp remains in C rank.
Blastoise falls to C rank.
Malamar is added to C rank.
Entei FALLS to C rank.
Dragonite remains in B rank.
Goodra is added to B rank.
Zygarde falls to C rank.
I am adding Lasagne 's post to the hall of fame :)
Keep in mind that I have altered the descriptions to make B rank more elitist and C rank more open. If you think something in C is way better than some other C rank Pokemon, consider nomming them to drop to D rank. Since there are so many mons to fit in these rankings, I am deeply considering dropping the Pokemon we put in D rank to show they are bad (like Ninetales and Blissey) into E rank and making D slightly nicer as well, but no one has talked to me about it yet so we'll see.
Don't nominate anything that has recently been discussed, nominations are unlocked.
I think d rank should mainly be a place for Pokemon who have a niche, but are quite bad at using it, or for Pokemon that are almost completely outclassed by another (ninetales fits into this second category). The current d rank Pokemon that should be moved down imo are: blissey (maybe chansey), Mr. Mime, parasect and Shuckle. These mons just don't have solid niches in doubles (or at least solid enough to warrant even a d rank spot). They may seem ok with just their movepools at first, but stats really bring the latter three down. Blissey is just bad not sure what else to say here lol
also xatu should be put in d rank if espeon is, since I'd rather use it over espeon if I wanted a magic bouncer. It has some cool support options in dual screens, tailwind, helping hand (I think?) and me first :o so yeah better than espeon make it at least in the same rank. I'll do some more noms later :]
also xatu should be put in d rank if espeon is, since I'd rather use it over espeon if I wanted a magic bouncer. It has some cool support options in dual screens, tailwind, helping hand (I think?) and me first :o so yeah better than espeon make it at least in the same rank. I'll do some more noms later :]
Well here is my list of B -> C candidates with a more strict view.
abomasnow, gallade, greninja, hariyama, klefki, manetric, musharna, virizion, whimsicott
These Pokemon have potential in this metagame, but either have debilitating flaws, are outclassed too badly or have a hard time keeping up with the truly good Pokemon in the tier(most have all 3 of these traits actually). These are Pokemon that I feel are in the B rank just because "oh they barely make B- possibly bc they don't suck."
Also, I believe Deoxys-A should move to B rank. While its paper thin defense is quite obviously a flaw, minimal support allows Deo-A to almost always go at least 1 for 1 and can blow serious holes in the opponent's defensive backbone with proper play. It can be even more devastating than the scariest of A and S tier mons, but requiring team support and special accommodations puts it in B imo.
abomasnow, gallade, greninja, hariyama, klefki, manetric, musharna, virizion, whimsicott
These Pokemon have potential in this metagame, but either have debilitating flaws, are outclassed too badly or have a hard time keeping up with the truly good Pokemon in the tier(most have all 3 of these traits actually). These are Pokemon that I feel are in the B rank just because "oh they barely make B- possibly bc they don't suck."
Also, I believe Deoxys-A should move to B rank. While its paper thin defense is quite obviously a flaw, minimal support allows Deo-A to almost always go at least 1 for 1 and can blow serious holes in the opponent's defensive backbone with proper play. It can be even more devastating than the scariest of A and S tier mons, but requiring team support and special accommodations puts it in B imo.
I don't think abomasnow and manectric should move down. Abomasnow literally makes playstyles viable singlehandedly. Without it, hail and hailroom wouldn't exist (or at least they'd be far, far worse). While I have expressed in the past how hailroom is primarily good on the ladder, and not so much in high level play, it is still good - there's almost no denying that. Mega abomasnow is built for trick room, with awesome offensds and shitty speed. Its a pretty solid mon, and definitely deserves to stay in B rank.
manectric is another pretty solid mega evo. It has 2 cool abilities depending on whether it's mega'd or not: lightningrod is awesome for fucking over opposing thundurus or w/e, and intimidate is obviously a great ability. It has some nice stats, especially in speed and spA, allowing it to clean up a weakened team pretty easily, as well as being able to support the team throughout the match with intimidate support. Another pretty cool Mon that should stay in B.
the main problem with these Pokemon is that they use up a mega slot, but that's not enough to outweigh their positives; they should stay in B rank.
I agree with your other drops, as well as deoxys-a moving up. Deo is such a powerhouse - paired with fake out support, it completely wrecks house and is almost always a guaranteed 1 for 1 at least if you play it right.
My question is how is hail even a playstyle? All it does is give 100% accurate Blizzards for 5 turns, but really what is the point of that. You forfeit offensive synergy if you decide to run Blizzard on multiple Pokemon and if you decide to use STAB then you double up on the worst defensive typing in the game. Also, I have experimented with Blizzard outside of hail on Kyurem since it doesn't have as shitty of a typing as Aboma and it was better than you'd think. 91% chance to hit at least something is more than acceptable compared to giving up an entire teamslot for Aboma support. The residual damage factor is kind of irrelevant because it is kind of small, lasts only 5 turns and affects your own team as well(sand you can run Rock, Ground or Steel not just 1 shitty type).
So you basically have to evaluate the Pokemon itself. Abomasnow isn't not good at all in any sense of the word. Mega Abomasnow does have respectable bulk and 132 sAtt. However, these factors are made COMPLETELY obsolete by its horrible typing, required TR support and lack of item.
It just doesn't compete with any of the really strong B rank mons. It isn't useless or complete trash, but hail is really overrated and often encourages bad teambuilding to actually get a use out of the weather.
Formal nom for Abomasnow to C rank. Although I agree it was probably the second best one off that list I had and Manetric doesn't need to move down, Abomasnow does deserve C.
ok here we go lets do some of these
Musharna for C rank
im really not sure why this was put in b in the first place. its good in nu but definitely not b rank worthy in doubles. musharna is a pokemon with good bulk, low speed and mediocre offensive stats. good trick room supporter, yes? that would definitely be the case if cresselia didnt exist. i honestly dont know why i would want to use musharna when i have cresselia, its just so much better. the only possible reason was if i really really wanted to be slow, but thats really not necessary tbh. actually id use reuniclus lol fuck musharna. cresselia is just better than musharna as a trick room setter, a supporter, and as a pokemon in general. musharna definitely deserves to drop to c rank, and honestly i wouldnt argue with it dropping as low as d.
Shaymin-Sky for A rank
what a boss. skymin is fast, hits hard and is annoying as fuck. 127 speed is awesome in this meta or in any meta honestly, and its special attack isnt shabby at all. when you're unsure what to do, you have two extremely spammable moves in air slash and seed flare. air slash has the awesome 60% flinch chance thanks to serene grace when you move first, and you WILL be moving first. seed flare hits fucking hard, and has a high chance (cbf checking how high) to lower spD by 2 STAGES. 2 STAGES. if you know your opponent is being forced to switch out but you dont know what to, you can just use seed flare for the -2 SpD on whatever switches in then destroy it with either seed flare again or one of your other moves (usually earth power rounds off the 3 move coverage). skymin is pretty fucking insane, definitely up to a.
Jolteon for D rank
as much as i love jolteon, its a useless pile of shit. if i want to use a fast electric type, ill use manectric thanks. mega manectric has 5 more speed and 25 more special attack than jolteon, as well as way better coverage options (aka fire moves). the only problem is you have to mega to get that blazing speed w/ mane, but honestly its still way better than using jolteon. it hits like a sack of shit and has the coverage of one too. thundurus is also way better, or even thundurus-t. its just outclassed so massively by so many things that it has to go to d rank.
Gallade for C rank
this case definitely isnt as strong as musharnas, but its similar. gallade is meant to be a specially bulky trick room setter that also hits pretty fucking hard. it does that last bit pretty well honestly, but its not the best trick room setter :/ id rather just use cresselia and have the rest of my team make up the offense. or if i really want a powerful trick room setter, ill use reuniclus cos that fucker hits hard. gallade also isnt really very slow, similarly to chandelure. it cant make the best use of the trick room it sets up, which is another reason id rather use something slower. if i want to simply use gallade as a strong attacker with a cool type ill whip out my medicham instead. gallade just doesnt keep up with most of the rest of B rank, and should be dropped to c.
Medicham for B rank
finally something that isnt actually on the list yet. medicham hits like a motherfucker. i used this shit in doubles games and it destroyed so much alongside diggersby (ill save that nom for next time since medicham is probably a better mon). mega medicham not only has 100 base attack w/ huge power but also has 100 speed so its really fucking fast too. that means it has a fake out that ties with mega kanga which is awesome. it has pretty much all the coverage it needs (elemental punches, mainly ice and fire), as well as priority in bullet punch. drain punch and zen headbutt/psycho cut make up the stabs, and you're set. unfortunately its not particularly bulky, so will go down relatively quickly, especially to physical moves. overall a really strong and quite fast mon that is better than a lot of the fighting types currently in b, but probably doesnt deserve a.
can someone else write out formal noms for greninja, hariyama, whimsicott, virizion and slowking pls they should all move down imo
also now i really want to build a team with deoxys-a and mega medicham as leads to destroy even more than deo-a + mega kanga
Musharna for C rank
im really not sure why this was put in b in the first place. its good in nu but definitely not b rank worthy in doubles. musharna is a pokemon with good bulk, low speed and mediocre offensive stats. good trick room supporter, yes? that would definitely be the case if cresselia didnt exist. i honestly dont know why i would want to use musharna when i have cresselia, its just so much better. the only possible reason was if i really really wanted to be slow, but thats really not necessary tbh. actually id use reuniclus lol fuck musharna. cresselia is just better than musharna as a trick room setter, a supporter, and as a pokemon in general. musharna definitely deserves to drop to c rank, and honestly i wouldnt argue with it dropping as low as d.
Shaymin-Sky for A rank
what a boss. skymin is fast, hits hard and is annoying as fuck. 127 speed is awesome in this meta or in any meta honestly, and its special attack isnt shabby at all. when you're unsure what to do, you have two extremely spammable moves in air slash and seed flare. air slash has the awesome 60% flinch chance thanks to serene grace when you move first, and you WILL be moving first. seed flare hits fucking hard, and has a high chance (cbf checking how high) to lower spD by 2 STAGES. 2 STAGES. if you know your opponent is being forced to switch out but you dont know what to, you can just use seed flare for the -2 SpD on whatever switches in then destroy it with either seed flare again or one of your other moves (usually earth power rounds off the 3 move coverage). skymin is pretty fucking insane, definitely up to a.
Jolteon for D rank
as much as i love jolteon, its a useless pile of shit. if i want to use a fast electric type, ill use manectric thanks. mega manectric has 5 more speed and 25 more special attack than jolteon, as well as way better coverage options (aka fire moves). the only problem is you have to mega to get that blazing speed w/ mane, but honestly its still way better than using jolteon. it hits like a sack of shit and has the coverage of one too. thundurus is also way better, or even thundurus-t. its just outclassed so massively by so many things that it has to go to d rank.
Gallade for C rank
this case definitely isnt as strong as musharnas, but its similar. gallade is meant to be a specially bulky trick room setter that also hits pretty fucking hard. it does that last bit pretty well honestly, but its not the best trick room setter :/ id rather just use cresselia and have the rest of my team make up the offense. or if i really want a powerful trick room setter, ill use reuniclus cos that fucker hits hard. gallade also isnt really very slow, similarly to chandelure. it cant make the best use of the trick room it sets up, which is another reason id rather use something slower. if i want to simply use gallade as a strong attacker with a cool type ill whip out my medicham instead. gallade just doesnt keep up with most of the rest of B rank, and should be dropped to c.
Medicham for B rank
finally something that isnt actually on the list yet. medicham hits like a motherfucker. i used this shit in doubles games and it destroyed so much alongside diggersby (ill save that nom for next time since medicham is probably a better mon). mega medicham not only has 100 base attack w/ huge power but also has 100 speed so its really fucking fast too. that means it has a fake out that ties with mega kanga which is awesome. it has pretty much all the coverage it needs (elemental punches, mainly ice and fire), as well as priority in bullet punch. drain punch and zen headbutt/psycho cut make up the stabs, and you're set. unfortunately its not particularly bulky, so will go down relatively quickly, especially to physical moves. overall a really strong and quite fast mon that is better than a lot of the fighting types currently in b, but probably doesnt deserve a.
can someone else write out formal noms for greninja, hariyama, whimsicott, virizion and slowking pls they should all move down imo
also now i really want to build a team with deoxys-a and mega medicham as leads to destroy even more than deo-a + mega kanga
I'd like to nominate Porygon2 for C rank
Porygon2 has always been a bit of an under the radar defensive duck, from way back to G/S/C with its curse set, to the more modern days of evolite. With 85/90/95 defenses, this cyber duck becomes a tank with evolite, and its 105 SpAtt makes it no slouch in offence either. It has a plethora of options that allow it to be played in any way you feel needed, with STAB Tri-Attack, thunderbolt, ice beam, psychic, psyshock, shadow ball, amusing many other offensive moves giving Porygon2 excellent coverage. As for support, it has access to thunder wave, with can make a surpirising amount of things slower than you, or toxic, both being great status moves. You have access to reliable recovery in recover. Even your lower speed can work in your favor in a trick room team, in which Porygon2 makes an excellent set up user of trick room. You even have a number of useful and interesting support moves, such as icy wind, and magic coat. On top of all of that, you have three completely usable abilities in Trace (Listed below), Download (Which with a bit of prediction/luck, you can net yourself a nice SpAtt boost), and Analytic (Which makes use of your low speed). And speaking of Trace...
List of things that make Trace awesome on Porygon2:
Aerilate - 2HKOs Mega-Pinsir with Tri Attack.
Arena Trap - Dugtrio cannot trap Porygon2.
Download - Can boost special attack and out-damage Genesect.
Dry Skin - Checks rain teams if packing Thunderbolt.
Flash Fire - Heatran is checked, hard-countered if it lacks attacking moves outside of Lava Plume.
Gooey - Physical variants of Goodra become outsped.
Intimidate - Various boosters like Salamence and Gyarados are hard-countered, crippled with Thunder Wave, and OHKO'd with BoltBeam.
Magic Guard - Cannot be killed with Toxic, the only status Porygon2 truly dislikes.
Magnet Pull - Can trap Magnezone and lower its special defense with Shadow Ball or possibly inflict burn/freeze with Tri Attack.
Multiscale - Hard-counters Dragonite in the middle of Outrage by crippling with Thunder Wave, reactivating with Recover, and 2HKOing with Ice Beam.
Natural Cure - Pokemon like Celebi and Blissey cannot reliably kill Porygon2 with Toxic.
Parental Bond - 1.5x damage boost that breaks subs and doubles secondary effect chances. Becomes a good revenge switch-in to unboosted Mega-Kangaskhan with a 2/5 chance to shut Mega-Kangaskhan down. This only applies in Ubers, however.
Poison Heal - Correctly predict an incoming Toxic from Gliscor, and your ready to go!
Prankster - Prankster Recover/Thunder Wave/Toxic.
Protean - Gives Porygon2 STAB BoltBeam or STAB Shadow Ball/Hidden Power Fighting.
Rough Skin - Garchomp gets hurt when using Dragon-type moves/Fire Fang.
Rain Dish - Checks Tentacruel lacking Toxic.
Serene Grace - Tri Attack turns into 40% chance of inflicting status, or 13.34% to burn, freeze, or paralyze. Discharge has a whopping 60% chance to paralyze while Shadow Ball will lower special defense every 2 times out of 5.
Shadow Tag - Allows Porygon2 to Toxic on Wobbuffet and switch out. Can safely Shadow Ball or Thunder Wave Mega-Gengar in Ubers.
Sheer Force - Most of Porygon2's attacking moves get a solid boost.
Speed Boost - Hard-counters Scolipede, cripples it with Thunder Wave, makes Porygon2 very hard to take down with speedy Recover and solid defenses on top of usable special attack.
Storm Drain - Can switch into Gastrodon and proceed to hit hard with Tri Attack.
Technician - Hidden Power Fighting becomes boosted to 90 BP. A set running Hidden Power Fire can OHKO most Scizor.
Thick Fat - Can switch into Mamoswine's Icicle Crash/Ice Shard and Recover off Earthquakes.
Volt Absorb - Hard-counters Jolteon and checks Thundurus-T.
Water Absorb - Regenerates health from switching into Vaporeon and checks Water Absorb Jellicent.
Wonder Guard - GG.
Porygon2 has always been a bit of an under the radar defensive duck, from way back to G/S/C with its curse set, to the more modern days of evolite. With 85/90/95 defenses, this cyber duck becomes a tank with evolite, and its 105 SpAtt makes it no slouch in offence either. It has a plethora of options that allow it to be played in any way you feel needed, with STAB Tri-Attack, thunderbolt, ice beam, psychic, psyshock, shadow ball, amusing many other offensive moves giving Porygon2 excellent coverage. As for support, it has access to thunder wave, with can make a surpirising amount of things slower than you, or toxic, both being great status moves. You have access to reliable recovery in recover. Even your lower speed can work in your favor in a trick room team, in which Porygon2 makes an excellent set up user of trick room. You even have a number of useful and interesting support moves, such as icy wind, and magic coat. On top of all of that, you have three completely usable abilities in Trace (Listed below), Download (Which with a bit of prediction/luck, you can net yourself a nice SpAtt boost), and Analytic (Which makes use of your low speed). And speaking of Trace...
List of things that make Trace awesome on Porygon2:
Aerilate - 2HKOs Mega-Pinsir with Tri Attack.
Arena Trap - Dugtrio cannot trap Porygon2.
Download - Can boost special attack and out-damage Genesect.
Dry Skin - Checks rain teams if packing Thunderbolt.
Flash Fire - Heatran is checked, hard-countered if it lacks attacking moves outside of Lava Plume.
Gooey - Physical variants of Goodra become outsped.
Intimidate - Various boosters like Salamence and Gyarados are hard-countered, crippled with Thunder Wave, and OHKO'd with BoltBeam.
Magic Guard - Cannot be killed with Toxic, the only status Porygon2 truly dislikes.
Magnet Pull - Can trap Magnezone and lower its special defense with Shadow Ball or possibly inflict burn/freeze with Tri Attack.
Multiscale - Hard-counters Dragonite in the middle of Outrage by crippling with Thunder Wave, reactivating with Recover, and 2HKOing with Ice Beam.
Natural Cure - Pokemon like Celebi and Blissey cannot reliably kill Porygon2 with Toxic.
Parental Bond - 1.5x damage boost that breaks subs and doubles secondary effect chances. Becomes a good revenge switch-in to unboosted Mega-Kangaskhan with a 2/5 chance to shut Mega-Kangaskhan down. This only applies in Ubers, however.
Poison Heal - Correctly predict an incoming Toxic from Gliscor, and your ready to go!
Prankster - Prankster Recover/Thunder Wave/Toxic.
Protean - Gives Porygon2 STAB BoltBeam or STAB Shadow Ball/Hidden Power Fighting.
Rough Skin - Garchomp gets hurt when using Dragon-type moves/Fire Fang.
Rain Dish - Checks Tentacruel lacking Toxic.
Serene Grace - Tri Attack turns into 40% chance of inflicting status, or 13.34% to burn, freeze, or paralyze. Discharge has a whopping 60% chance to paralyze while Shadow Ball will lower special defense every 2 times out of 5.
Shadow Tag - Allows Porygon2 to Toxic on Wobbuffet and switch out. Can safely Shadow Ball or Thunder Wave Mega-Gengar in Ubers.
Sheer Force - Most of Porygon2's attacking moves get a solid boost.
Speed Boost - Hard-counters Scolipede, cripples it with Thunder Wave, makes Porygon2 very hard to take down with speedy Recover and solid defenses on top of usable special attack.
Storm Drain - Can switch into Gastrodon and proceed to hit hard with Tri Attack.
Technician - Hidden Power Fighting becomes boosted to 90 BP. A set running Hidden Power Fire can OHKO most Scizor.
Thick Fat - Can switch into Mamoswine's Icicle Crash/Ice Shard and Recover off Earthquakes.
Volt Absorb - Hard-counters Jolteon and checks Thundurus-T.
Water Absorb - Regenerates health from switching into Vaporeon and checks Water Absorb Jellicent.
Wonder Guard - GG.
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you can switch :O
Vis Mage: while I don't dispute that Pory2 is good (it's an amazingly bulky TR setter with SDef rivalling Lugia's) I don't think your arguments are completely watertight either. Reading through most of your arguments for Trace, it looks like you're thinking more about singles than about doubles (for example mentions of Dugtrio, Outrage Dragonite, Jolteon etc). Instead I feel that Pory2 is a great 'mon well deserving of B Rank (or at least C++++++++). I think the following calcs more or less speak for themselves:
Pory2's main problems, however, are that it's really vulnerable to Knock Off (well so is Dusclops but that doesn't stop Joim from thinking it's good) and that it doesn't provide as much offensive pressure as Chandelure and Slowking do. While this is true, I still think that Pory2 forms enough of a niche as a semi-offensive TR setter to hit B/C Rank.
If you choose to go more physically bulky, Pory2 can take quite some punishment:
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 218-260 (58.2 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 265-312 (70.8 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 212-252 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 292-348 (78 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or even if you go after more Special Attack and leave your defenses alone:
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 252-296 (67.3 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 300-354 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
ok it dies to Mega Lucario CC and LO Terrak CC but SERIOUSLY IT'S STILL BUFF AF OK
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 288-338 (77 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
look it survives without the Life Orb okay that's good enough stfu
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 218-260 (58.2 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 265-312 (70.8 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 212-252 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 292-348 (78 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or even if you go after more Special Attack and leave your defenses alone:
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 252-296 (67.3 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 300-354 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
ok it dies to Mega Lucario CC and LO Terrak CC but SERIOUSLY IT'S STILL BUFF AF OK
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 288-338 (77 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
look it survives without the Life Orb okay that's good enough stfu
I think that is enough for nominations to be locked.
Discuss:
Deoxys-A rising to B rank.
Abomasnow falling to C rank.
Musharna falling to C rank.
Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
Jolteon falling to D rank.
Gallade falling to C rank.
Medicham being added to B rank.
Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
Discuss:
Deoxys-A rising to B rank.
Abomasnow falling to C rank.
Musharna falling to C rank.
Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
Jolteon falling to D rank.
Gallade falling to C rank.
Medicham being added to B rank.
Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
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Deoxys-A rising to B rank.
Yes. DeoA hits so damn hard and doesn't even care about being predictable. Slap a Life Orb on it and nuke everything with Follow Me Support, or Sash it and watch your opponent cringe at getting hit twice by it. It's frail and predictable overall, which keeps it from A Rank, but it can easily break 2 enemy team members without trying hard, whihc I think keeps it higher than C Rank easily.
Abomasnow falling to C rank.
No. Aboma has seen a drop in usage because things like Heatran, CharY, and even Kanga are so popular, but it doesn't suck entirely. C Rank feels too low for it.
Musharna falling to C rank.
Yes. Mini Cress is Mini Cress.
Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
No. Too frail to cause more damage than DeoA, but fast flinch is nice. B Rank is fine for it.
Jolteon falling to D rank.
As much as I love Jolteon, it's not good.
Gallade falling to C rank.
Weird TR setter that actually benefits from Dark Types hitting it, but not B Rank material.
Medicham being added to B rank.
Eh? There's so many better megas (and one with Huge/Pure Power) already, I don't see a real use for Medicham. C Rank due to outclass.
Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
It also doesn't get OKHO'd by Dark types which is a bonus for it. And the other arguments left out Download as a possible Ability, plus it has reliable recovery. It's definitely one of the better TR setters in the current meta, although the Knock Off buff really did hurt it. B Rank is a good fit for it personally, but C Rank is ok too.
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I agree with all of these for the reasons previously brought up.
Pory2:
I feel it is C rank, not B. Its bulk and power are simply not amazing enough to warrant a lot of consideration in this meta. It can be overwhelmed MUCH easier in doubles than singles, which makes Recover pointless. It doesn't really last long enough when compared to what it contributes when it is without ANY recovery, so Pory2 is in a tight spot. Its niche for TR teams is quite obvious and useful, but it is not B worthy for its TR niche like Aromatisse is.
Deoxys-A rising to B rank.
Definitely. Has absurd Attack / Special Attack with extremely high Speed and a strong movepool to back it up both in terms of coverage (Superpower, Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse, Ice Beam, Rock Slide, Fire Punch), power (Psycho Boost, Superpower), and even ExtremeSpeed. Whilst as frail as paper, Focus Sash means it'll survive one attack, and it can OHKO Ttar and Abomasnow with Superpower. Deo-A's fraility can be backed up with Fake Out, Follow Me, or Quick Guard support. Or you could use Life Orb instead to OHKO lots of Pokemon in the metagame. No Pokemon matches Deoxys-A in terms of raw power and raw speed combined. Easy B-rank.
Abomasnow falling to C rank.
No. B-rank. Required Pokemon for Hail teams, and HailRoom is a legit strategy. Strong Mega under Trick Room, and unlike recent Mega drops like Blastoise, Abomasnow is useable without its Mega Evo, Trick Room or no Trick Room. Grass-STAB and Ice-STAB are always useful, and it's also a great check for rain teams. A Choice Scarf set can also catch your opponent off-guard and is viable though not as viable as it was last gen.
Musharna falling to C rank.
Major competition from Cress, Reuniclus, and Mew, and that's defensively, offensively, and in terms of movepool. Between the three, there is no reason to use Musharna other than Telepathy, Imprison, and being the slowest of the three for Trick Room, and the Speed only really matters if you want to use Swagger on a very slow teammate that Cress can't underspeed in TR. Those uses are very situational though, and chances are the teams that would warrant Musharna aren't that good. C-rank, and it's very close to deserving D-rank as it's close to completely outclassed.
Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
Very fast with strong power, Serene Grace Seed Flare and Air Slash are excellent, and has Earth Power for Heatran. Air Slash can stall out a turn which makes methods of handling it like setting up TR unreliable, and can even function like Protect to stop a foe from attacking it. It is surprisingly good for aiding set-up by forcing switches with Seed Flare SpD drops, its movepool, and Air Slash flinches if all else fails. Grass-type grants it a good niche - always useful for Rotom-W and rain teams. It has issues against common Pokemon though, like Charizard, Mega Kang, Cress (provided it has Icy Wind or Ice Beam but they're common), Talonflame, Thundurus-I (prankster TWave shuts it down), and many Choice Scarf fair well against it. It's also useless if TR is up, and it's typing is bad defensively to the point of making it frail even though it has decent 100/75/75 stats. But it has specific niches that no other Pokemon can carry out and let it provide team support whilst still being a very fast sweeper. And it doesn't need team support. It's not the best A-rank Pokemon, but it deserves A-rank.
Jolteon falling to D rank.
It's only use is cleaning up the team / late game sweeper on rain teams. But really, there are better choices for late game sweeping. If you really want to use something that's fast and hits hard, use Deoxys-A. You'd be surviving the same number of attacks if you use Focus Sash on Deo-A as Jolteon's bulk isn't good. Deo-A also gets Thunderbolt / Thunder if your heart is set on using Electric-type attacks and a far better offensive movepool. Jolteon, other than Thunder and Thunderbolt, has no high base power coverage - the next best is Shadow Ball. The Hidden Power nerf also sucks. The movepool really holds Jolteon back. And if Deo-A isn't good for you, there are a pletora of other fast cleaners like Shaymin-S, Weavile, and many Pokemon already lurking in C-rank and even D-rank. And of course you can't forget Thundurus-I, Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W for Electric-type sweepers - really anything that's faster than Garchomp can be considered for late-game sweeping, and even 111 base speed is great for the job as not much of note lurks between that and 130 base Speed. I wouldn't use Jolteon. D-rank.
Gallade falling to C rank.
Yes. TR settler that hits hard but there are harder hitters, and it has good special bulk but there are bulkier Pokemon and is compromised by bad physical bulk. Whilst it can hit hard and have good special bulk together, there are other Pokemon that are better with that combination in TR, and more importantly, you're better off using bulkier settlers like Cress and more offensive TR sweepers like Conkledurr and Heatran. It's typing is also bad defensively and gives it few switch-in opportunities. It's hard to justify its use. It's movepool is great though, and it has niche options like being a Fighting-type with Will-O-Wisp, and it gets Heal Pulse which has been buffed so that if your ally faints before you use it, you no longer heal the opponent. C-rank.
Medicham being added to B rank.
C-rank, not B-rank. Yes it's got Fake Out, but it isn't that fast and isn't as good as Mega Kang's Fake out if you want a strong Fake Out whose is also faster when Mega Evolving or just as faster otherwise. Whilst it hits hard, it has low base power STABs to make use of them other than Hi Jump Kick which sucks and Low Kick which only hits some foes with high base power. It's typing isn't good defensively as it grants it very few switch-in opportunities, and 60/85/85 is not good bulk, especially for a Mega Evo. Few teams would want Mega Medicham over Mega Kang, and for most of the teams that do would probably prefer another Mega Evo over Medicham like Mega Lucario. Medicham without Mega Evo is even more difficult to warrant using.
Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
It's like Dusclops - very bulky, but doesn't hit hard. It's stats are better than Dusclops, but that comes at the price of its support movepool which is lacking outside of Trick Room and speed control. Trace isn't bad but is unreliable in Doubles. Download is probably better and it's pretty neat too. It's typing is a disappointment, though a Ghost-immunity is useful. It's also very predictable, and you know it's movepool is going to be limited to Tri Attack, Ice Beam, and/or Discharge/ Thunderbolt, Trick Room, Recover, or Magic Coat. C-rank fits it.
Definitely. Has absurd Attack / Special Attack with extremely high Speed and a strong movepool to back it up both in terms of coverage (Superpower, Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse, Ice Beam, Rock Slide, Fire Punch), power (Psycho Boost, Superpower), and even ExtremeSpeed. Whilst as frail as paper, Focus Sash means it'll survive one attack, and it can OHKO Ttar and Abomasnow with Superpower. Deo-A's fraility can be backed up with Fake Out, Follow Me, or Quick Guard support. Or you could use Life Orb instead to OHKO lots of Pokemon in the metagame. No Pokemon matches Deoxys-A in terms of raw power and raw speed combined. Easy B-rank.
Abomasnow falling to C rank.
No. B-rank. Required Pokemon for Hail teams, and HailRoom is a legit strategy. Strong Mega under Trick Room, and unlike recent Mega drops like Blastoise, Abomasnow is useable without its Mega Evo, Trick Room or no Trick Room. Grass-STAB and Ice-STAB are always useful, and it's also a great check for rain teams. A Choice Scarf set can also catch your opponent off-guard and is viable though not as viable as it was last gen.
Musharna falling to C rank.
Major competition from Cress, Reuniclus, and Mew, and that's defensively, offensively, and in terms of movepool. Between the three, there is no reason to use Musharna other than Telepathy, Imprison, and being the slowest of the three for Trick Room, and the Speed only really matters if you want to use Swagger on a very slow teammate that Cress can't underspeed in TR. Those uses are very situational though, and chances are the teams that would warrant Musharna aren't that good. C-rank, and it's very close to deserving D-rank as it's close to completely outclassed.
Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
Very fast with strong power, Serene Grace Seed Flare and Air Slash are excellent, and has Earth Power for Heatran. Air Slash can stall out a turn which makes methods of handling it like setting up TR unreliable, and can even function like Protect to stop a foe from attacking it. It is surprisingly good for aiding set-up by forcing switches with Seed Flare SpD drops, its movepool, and Air Slash flinches if all else fails. Grass-type grants it a good niche - always useful for Rotom-W and rain teams. It has issues against common Pokemon though, like Charizard, Mega Kang, Cress (provided it has Icy Wind or Ice Beam but they're common), Talonflame, Thundurus-I (prankster TWave shuts it down), and many Choice Scarf fair well against it. It's also useless if TR is up, and it's typing is bad defensively to the point of making it frail even though it has decent 100/75/75 stats. But it has specific niches that no other Pokemon can carry out and let it provide team support whilst still being a very fast sweeper. And it doesn't need team support. It's not the best A-rank Pokemon, but it deserves A-rank.
Jolteon falling to D rank.
It's only use is cleaning up the team / late game sweeper on rain teams. But really, there are better choices for late game sweeping. If you really want to use something that's fast and hits hard, use Deoxys-A. You'd be surviving the same number of attacks if you use Focus Sash on Deo-A as Jolteon's bulk isn't good. Deo-A also gets Thunderbolt / Thunder if your heart is set on using Electric-type attacks and a far better offensive movepool. Jolteon, other than Thunder and Thunderbolt, has no high base power coverage - the next best is Shadow Ball. The Hidden Power nerf also sucks. The movepool really holds Jolteon back. And if Deo-A isn't good for you, there are a pletora of other fast cleaners like Shaymin-S, Weavile, and many Pokemon already lurking in C-rank and even D-rank. And of course you can't forget Thundurus-I, Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W for Electric-type sweepers - really anything that's faster than Garchomp can be considered for late-game sweeping, and even 111 base speed is great for the job as not much of note lurks between that and 130 base Speed. I wouldn't use Jolteon. D-rank.
Gallade falling to C rank.
Yes. TR settler that hits hard but there are harder hitters, and it has good special bulk but there are bulkier Pokemon and is compromised by bad physical bulk. Whilst it can hit hard and have good special bulk together, there are other Pokemon that are better with that combination in TR, and more importantly, you're better off using bulkier settlers like Cress and more offensive TR sweepers like Conkledurr and Heatran. It's typing is also bad defensively and gives it few switch-in opportunities. It's hard to justify its use. It's movepool is great though, and it has niche options like being a Fighting-type with Will-O-Wisp, and it gets Heal Pulse which has been buffed so that if your ally faints before you use it, you no longer heal the opponent. C-rank.
Medicham being added to B rank.
C-rank, not B-rank. Yes it's got Fake Out, but it isn't that fast and isn't as good as Mega Kang's Fake out if you want a strong Fake Out whose is also faster when Mega Evolving or just as faster otherwise. Whilst it hits hard, it has low base power STABs to make use of them other than Hi Jump Kick which sucks and Low Kick which only hits some foes with high base power. It's typing isn't good defensively as it grants it very few switch-in opportunities, and 60/85/85 is not good bulk, especially for a Mega Evo. Few teams would want Mega Medicham over Mega Kang, and for most of the teams that do would probably prefer another Mega Evo over Medicham like Mega Lucario. Medicham without Mega Evo is even more difficult to warrant using.
Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
It's like Dusclops - very bulky, but doesn't hit hard. It's stats are better than Dusclops, but that comes at the price of its support movepool which is lacking outside of Trick Room and speed control. Trace isn't bad but is unreliable in Doubles. Download is probably better and it's pretty neat too. It's typing is a disappointment, though a Ghost-immunity is useful. It's also very predictable, and you know it's movepool is going to be limited to Tri Attack, Ice Beam, and/or Discharge/ Thunderbolt, Trick Room, Recover, or Magic Coat. C-rank fits it.
Deoxys-A rising to B rank.
As pretty much THE person who has hyped up Deo-a all throughout BW2, I have to say - it really kind of isn't too good. Slapping a Life Orb on it makes it die to every spread move stronger then Cress's Icy Wind (which still does close to 50% IIRC), it's incredibly predictable, only has single target attacks, and for PURE POWER, you can always run titans like Kyurem-B or Mega Medicham who have actually existant bulk stats. It really doesn't help this is the meta of priority, and if your follow me user is dead or not on the field deo-a is superbly boned. It also cannot switch into ANYTHING, so bringing it out can be an enormous pain.
Abomasnow falling to C rank.
I'm of a mixed bag on this one. Almost everything with anything resembling offense in the metagame hits President Obamasnow for SE without even trying. Ice/grass is so incredibly awful as a defensive typing, even with 90/105/105 defenses. It REALLY needs support, and a lot of it - if it isn't being run with trick room or some other form of damage migation, it's basically a sitting duck at an incredibly crappy base 30 speed. It cannot, in its best form, run a damage boosting item, and its best attacking move was nerfed to 110 BP. Hail was nerfed to practically only last 5 turns (you aren't running a icy rock with this thing). Its awful base offenses in its non-mega form really hurts Scarf sets. It also did absolutely nothing for two terms, and has allowed Team Flare to run unchecked in spying on our communications.
And yet...
It still summons Hail. It still has a spammable 110 BP STAB spread move with a 20% chance of freezing SOMETHING per turn. It still enables the rest of its team to spam that 110 BP spread move. Hail is still a painful damage over time effect. It still has 90/105/105 defenses. And it can still (reasonably well) run mixed offenses.
Still, though, the Hail and Blizzard nerfs REALLY hurt. Let it fall, I say.
Edit: Also, the meta poops on it.
Musharna falling to C rank.
Honestly, if Cress didn't learn Levitate, I'd be totally fine with this being B rank. As is, B rank is bloated, and mini-cress is still mini-cress. Supporting.
Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
This thing is so freaking clutch it's unreal. Flinch can BS your way to victory even in your darkest hour, grass/flying is great coverage, and 127 speed is fantastic for picking off mons, and outspeeds almost all of the unboosted tier. Supporting this.
Jolteon falling to D rank.
Yes please let this thing die.
Gallade falling to C rank.
Medicham being added to B rank.
This thing is actually really damn good. Having messed aound with it, it's pretty good at what it does - breaking shit. Bulk lets it live some stuff too. Support.
Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
No comment. Haven't seen this, ever, and have never used it.
As pretty much THE person who has hyped up Deo-a all throughout BW2, I have to say - it really kind of isn't too good. Slapping a Life Orb on it makes it die to every spread move stronger then Cress's Icy Wind (which still does close to 50% IIRC), it's incredibly predictable, only has single target attacks, and for PURE POWER, you can always run titans like Kyurem-B or Mega Medicham who have actually existant bulk stats. It really doesn't help this is the meta of priority, and if your follow me user is dead or not on the field deo-a is superbly boned. It also cannot switch into ANYTHING, so bringing it out can be an enormous pain.
Abomasnow falling to C rank.
I'm of a mixed bag on this one. Almost everything with anything resembling offense in the metagame hits President Obamasnow for SE without even trying. Ice/grass is so incredibly awful as a defensive typing, even with 90/105/105 defenses. It REALLY needs support, and a lot of it - if it isn't being run with trick room or some other form of damage migation, it's basically a sitting duck at an incredibly crappy base 30 speed. It cannot, in its best form, run a damage boosting item, and its best attacking move was nerfed to 110 BP. Hail was nerfed to practically only last 5 turns (you aren't running a icy rock with this thing). Its awful base offenses in its non-mega form really hurts Scarf sets. It also did absolutely nothing for two terms, and has allowed Team Flare to run unchecked in spying on our communications.
And yet...
It still summons Hail. It still has a spammable 110 BP STAB spread move with a 20% chance of freezing SOMETHING per turn. It still enables the rest of its team to spam that 110 BP spread move. Hail is still a painful damage over time effect. It still has 90/105/105 defenses. And it can still (reasonably well) run mixed offenses.
Still, though, the Hail and Blizzard nerfs REALLY hurt. Let it fall, I say.
Edit: Also, the meta poops on it.
Musharna falling to C rank.
Honestly, if Cress didn't learn Levitate, I'd be totally fine with this being B rank. As is, B rank is bloated, and mini-cress is still mini-cress. Supporting.
Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
This thing is so freaking clutch it's unreal. Flinch can BS your way to victory even in your darkest hour, grass/flying is great coverage, and 127 speed is fantastic for picking off mons, and outspeeds almost all of the unboosted tier. Supporting this.
Jolteon falling to D rank.
Yes please let this thing die.
Gallade falling to C rank.
shamelessly stealing reasoning said:
Medicham being added to B rank.
This thing is actually really damn good. Having messed aound with it, it's pretty good at what it does - breaking shit. Bulk lets it live some stuff too. Support.
Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
No comment. Haven't seen this, ever, and have never used it.
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Forgive my potential ignorance, but would it not be wise to differentiate between mega and regular pokemon in the OP? My reasoning is that Charizard has two megas, so there may be a clear distinction between the two in terms of performance and consistency. Additionally, while regular Lucario clearlys pale in comparison to its mega self, it appears fitting for the definition of lower C (or even D) Rank. I apologize if it's a stupid question. It just stood out as odd to me.
The reasoning is quite simple, actually - a Mega pokemon is simply a facet of the pokemon in question. While it could be argued that it is a separate forme, at the end of the day, a pokemon holding a Mega stone will still show up as its base forme, and correspondingly is not significantly different from any other choice on a mon (ability, move, item choice, etc). There's no good reason why OU ranks them separately, to be honest - even Ubers lists mega mons as the same rank as the base mon.
I am hesitant to add Shaymin-S to A rank. Having such high Speed and Special Attack without mega-evolving or attaching a Scarf is precious, but it's really susceptible to opponent's Speed control. Also priorities are flying around more than ever before, many of which would end Shaymin-S's day abruptly short. No powerful spread moves combined with its poor defensive typing leave it quite vulnerable to opponent's assaults, despite its Speed. It would often require another fast and powerful partner, a priority user, or a Fake Out / Follow Me user to throw out hard special assaults freely. Shaymin-S for B.
Why use up your mega slot on Medicham? It's a glasscannon without the Speed to avoid being shattered by faster powerhouses. Kangaskhan not only has the bulk and power, but a powerful priority in Sucker Punch to threaten faster threats. Unlike Charizard Y, which also falls in the same Speed tier, Medicham lacks the special bulk and most importantly a powerful spread move to essentially cremate most slower mons. I also find being walled by bulky Psychic-types, such as Cresselia, and the new Aegislash to be undesirable. Powerful Sucker Punches would even allow slower mons like Bisharp and Mawile make short work of Medicham. Medicham for C.
C rank is too low for Deoxys-A. Its 150 Speed really comes in handy. With its colossal 180 base offenses it can decimate quite a few things with Psycho Boost and Superpower. For instance, an unboosted Psycho Boost OHKOs 4 SpD Charizard Y 75% of the time, 4 HP Kangaskhan 50% of the time, and 252 HP / 124 SpD non-vest Rotom-W 31% of the time. Focus Sash helps alleviate its frailty somewhat to harness its firepower. A lot of the problems highlighted by Shaymin-S is compounded in Deoxys-A's case, but its sheer power and Speed tier warrant Deoxys-A to be higher than C. No Pokemon above it outclasses it. If anything, Deoxys-A's relatively successful performance in SPL should indicate its viability in Doubles. Deoxys-A for B.
Why use up your mega slot on Medicham? It's a glasscannon without the Speed to avoid being shattered by faster powerhouses. Kangaskhan not only has the bulk and power, but a powerful priority in Sucker Punch to threaten faster threats. Unlike Charizard Y, which also falls in the same Speed tier, Medicham lacks the special bulk and most importantly a powerful spread move to essentially cremate most slower mons. I also find being walled by bulky Psychic-types, such as Cresselia, and the new Aegislash to be undesirable. Powerful Sucker Punches would even allow slower mons like Bisharp and Mawile make short work of Medicham. Medicham for C.
C rank is too low for Deoxys-A. Its 150 Speed really comes in handy. With its colossal 180 base offenses it can decimate quite a few things with Psycho Boost and Superpower. For instance, an unboosted Psycho Boost OHKOs 4 SpD Charizard Y 75% of the time, 4 HP Kangaskhan 50% of the time, and 252 HP / 124 SpD non-vest Rotom-W 31% of the time. Focus Sash helps alleviate its frailty somewhat to harness its firepower. A lot of the problems highlighted by Shaymin-S is compounded in Deoxys-A's case, but its sheer power and Speed tier warrant Deoxys-A to be higher than C. No Pokemon above it outclasses it. If anything, Deoxys-A's relatively successful performance in SPL should indicate its viability in Doubles. Deoxys-A for B.
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