Doubles Viability Rankings (C- Votes if u care lol)

[termi]

Deoxys-A rising to B rank.
Don't have much experience with this guy but I suppose he does hit damn hard. My concern is that literally everything can kill him with ease, meaning you need Quick Guard support if you don't want it to be wrecked by any Fake Out user or Scizor or smogon burd. Also doesn't have a good spread move afaik so that's kinda lame. Not fully convinced about this guy as of now.

Abomasnow falling to C rank.
Fair enough, without Mega he hits like a wet noodle and with Mega you require TR support, and even then its bulk won't help him too much when he has 7 weaknesses.

Musharna falling to C rank.
Fine with this, she doesn't have much of a niche over Cresselia outside of being slower, stronger and having Imprison, Cress is generally the better choice.

Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
Don't think I'd place it in A-rank tbh, like Pocket said, it's suceptible to many SE hits, priority moves and the like and speed control bothers it too much. Good mon, but doesn't offer the utility of other A rank Pokemon.

Jolteon falling to D rank.
Why would you use this thing, like, ever. Thundurus is stronger, has Prankster and base 130 speed is not as relevant as it is in singles due to the high amount of speed control being thrown around and the general bulkiness of the meta. It even sucks in singles so I see no reason to use Jolteon at all, so D rank or even E rank seems fine

Gallade falling to C rank.
Barely seeing this guy around nowadays, but I guess he doesn't perform too well, not a great sash lead due to being susceptible to Fake Out, not a great bulky setter either because its defensive typing is kinda eh and its physical bulk is still shite. Not that powerful either when you're not using CC.

Medicham being added to B rank.
More like C rank. Sure it hits like a truck, but it's kinda frail, doesn't have an amazing speed tier, has no reliable way of patching it up (lol Bullet Punch), no spread move, it's generally good but doesn't offer enough utility, offensive or defensive, to use your mega slot on most of the time.

Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
More like B rank imo, its bulk is unreal and unlike many other bulky TR setters like Dusclops it has actual offensive presence to screw you with. Trace is situational but can be excellent when tracing shit like Intimidate, Download can provide you with a potential SpA boost which is very useful. Also has the coverage to back it up.

 

[Pocket]

Oh yea, Abomasnow; keep that in B. Nothing does what Abomasnow does. As I previously stated, it's pretty anti-meta; a lot of teams are fucked by Abomasnow. It's no surprise since so many common threats are weak to its STAB (Togekiss, Landorus-T, Thundurus, Rotom-W, Tyranitar, Latios, Amoonguss, Terrakion, Keldeo) I've seen SPL teams where 2/3rd or more of their teams are weak to Abomasnow's Blizzard or Wood Hammer. Because of the diverse threats that it beats, it pairs well with a lot of Pokemon, such as Heatran and Fighting-types. Trick Room support isn't all that much to ask for a B-ranked mon.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Personally I'm of the opposite opinion. It should be pushed down to C rank. Quite frankly I fail to see how it's particularly anti-meta in a metagame where it has plenty to fear from some of the top Pokemon, such as Heatran, Charizard-Y, Scrafty (particularly the rise in AVest Scrafty) and Bisharp. Pokemon such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Tyranitar will all decimate Abomasnow before it can strike back, so I don't know how it can be considered a solid answer to any of those mons. The vast majority of teams pack something that makes Abomasnow's life hell (not hard to do given its plethora of weaknesses). While this was true in the past too, Abomasnow's benefits outweighed this. Having a STAB Blizzard for the whole game was much more powerful since Blizzard had yet to be nerfed, and more importantly, weather lasted all game. However, having to deal with the pressure of keeping alive something like Abomasnow for a spread move that retains a good accuracy for only 5 turns is not a very desirable deal. I'd even rather just use Blizzard without Hail on a better Ice-type such as Kyurem than have to stack weaknesses and make incredibly common Pokemon in the metagame even bigger threats to my team.

 

[youngjake93]

Personally I'm of the opposite opinion. It should be pushed down to C rank. Quite frankly I fail to see how it's particularly anti-meta in a metagame where it has plenty to fear from some of the top Pokemon, such as Heatran, Charizard-Y, Scrafty (particularly the rise in AVest Scrafty) and Bisharp. Pokemon such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Tyranitar will all decimate Abomasnow before it can strike back, so I don't know how it can be considered a solid answer to any of those mons. The vast majority of teams pack something that makes Abomasnow's life hell (not hard to do given its plethora of weaknesses). While this was true in the past too, Abomasnow's benefits outweighed this. Having a STAB Blizzard for the whole game was much more powerful since Blizzard had yet to be nerfed, and more importantly, weather lasted all game. However, having to deal with the pressure of keeping alive something like Abomasnow for a spread move that retains a good accuracy for only 5 turns is not a very desirable deal. I'd even rather just use Blizzard without Hail on a better Ice-type such as Kyurem than have to stack weaknesses and make incredibly common Pokemon in the metagame even bigger threats to my team.

Perfect explanation.
Edit: Might I add that REQUIRING trick room to not suck ass is actually asking for a lot Pocket. Most of the TR abusers aren't deadweight outside of TR and being forced to manage 2 5 turn field effects for success is a hefty order. And even once TR goes up, Aboma is really bad compared to similarly ranked abusers like Sylveon, Rhyperior or Mega Ampharos.

 

[Pocket]

You really don't use Abomasnow for Hail nowadays... you use Abomasnow for Abomasnow. You aren't using Abomasnow to set up your Kyurem's BlizzSpam, but you're using Abomasnow, because it's the only Pokemon available with a perfect accuracy Blizzard. Kinda in the same vein why you use Charizard Y for Charizard Y rather than for setting up Sun for other Sun sweepers... Charizard Y IS the Sun sweeper. So there are really no stacking of weaknesses that you mention.

Also Keldeo, Tyranitar, and Terrakion are easy pickings for Abomasnow under Trick Room, which is the entire point of using Abomasnow :X. It fits B rank's description a lot better than C rank imo, since I do believe its positive trait (amazing offensive coverage) outweighs its flaws (poor defensive typing). Even then it can switch into Landorus-T / Garchomp's Earthquake (and threaten them with Ice Shard / Blizzard), Rotom-W's Hydro Pump, Amoonguss Spore / Giga Drain with ease, so it's not like it offers absolutely zero defensive coverage, either. If you're afraid of Charizard Y, Volcarona, etc you can even give it HP Rock > Ice Shard or pair it with Heatran, Rhyperior, Chandelure, etc. C rank just doesn't do it justice. It's a surprisingly effective mon when used right.

 

[Darkmalice]

If you're afraid of Charizard Y, Volcarona, etc you can even give it HP Rock > Ice Shard or pair it with Heatran, Rhyperior, Chandelure, etc. C rank just doesn't do it justice. It's a surprisingly effective mon when used right.

Why not give it Rock Slide instead?

With the Quiet 252 HP / 48 Atk / 208 spread listed on the Doubles analysis:

208+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Hidden Power Rock vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 252-300 (84.5 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
48 Atk Mega Abomasnow Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 264-312 (88.5 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Volcarona also takes Rock Slide worse than Mega Zard Y.

You can always increase the Atk EVs to increase the likeilhood of a KO, where as even max SpA HP Rock can never OHKO Mega Zard Y.

 

[Ultimathunder]

Deoxys-A rising to B rank.

YES. Why wasn't it in B rank before :/. Deoxys-A is one of the most devastating, albeit one - dimensional attackers in the meta. It pretty much runs the same few moves (Extremespeed, Psycho boost, SuperPower, Ice beam, HP Fire, Detect, Taunt), and has to run focus Sash to be effective, but it does its job very well. It hits like a truck, physically and specially, and is lightning fast. He lacks a spread move and NEEDS FM / RP support to do it's job, but it does its job very well.

Abomasnow falling to C rank.

Yea, I can go with this. Mega Aboma has a lot of weaknesses and falls to common threats such as Zard Y and Scrafty. It's hail and low speed do let it suceed on Hailroom, but it's also kind of one dimensional. And hail is still the weakest weather- really all it does is chip damage and max accuracy Blizzard.

Musharna falling to C rank.

I agree with this too, Musharna is given heavy competition by other psychic types such as Reuniclus and Cresselia. It has a few useful unique traits such as Telepathy and Imprison, but other psychic types such as Cresselia and Reuniclus can offer many more things such as crazy high bulk and higher special attack and a more useful movepool. C rank is for overshadowed mons and musy fits that category well.

Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.

As much as I love using skymin, I think it belongs in B rank. Its lack of spread moves, vulneravility ro speed control, general frailness makes it not on the level of pokemon such as Garchomp and Landorus-T. It is definitely a great mon, with high power and speed, but its limitations prevent it from being a rank.

Jolteon falling to D rank.

Yes. Jolteon has a lot of competition from mons like thundurus forms and and zapdos. It has a decent amount of power but horrible movepool, is very vulnerable to speed control. It has low physical bulk, making it vulnerable to many physical moves like
earthquake. I actually don't have much experience with this but that's cause I always choose a superior electric type.

Gallade falling to C rank.

I'm really torn on this, but I am leaning no. Gallade is an excellent TR user, and powerful attacker in general. It does have a few flaws, such as being intimidate weak, and physically frail, but makes up for it woth a gigantic movepool filled with offensive and lesser used support moves such as willowisp.

Medicham being added to B rank.

Definitely, I'm surprised it wasn't already there. Mega medicham has a very high attack, decent speed, and a good movepool including fake out. Dont have much experience with it so I don't have much m
ore to say- its a pretty straightforward mon.

Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
Yea, I guess. Pory2 is a very bulky mon, I always feel like it doesn't offer a team much other than a bulky TR setter. Trace is a great ability, but situational and pory doesn't offer much more in comparison to other TR users.

 

[Stratos]

hi i keep telling myself i am going to post in this and then i dont

Abomasnow falling to C rank.

As much as it pains me to see Abomasnow's fall from grace, I think this needs to happen. It got along fine in last gen's rain/sand meta, but fire types are everywhere nowadays, and Abomasnow cannot do anything to them. Joim really wanted to use a mega abomasnow team in week four of SPL, but it's unusable outside of TR. As we kept trying to make different teams, we realized that Abomasnow was the common thread holding all of them back, because it really doesn't synergize well with most TR threats—awkward for a mon that's only usable in trick room. i'd rather use my mega slot elsewhere.

Musharna falling to C rank.
Or D. It really isn't worth using over cress, ever, unless you are doing some trick room blitzkrieg and really need to imprison protect. and then u get the awkward situation of having a pkmn you have to keep on the field that literally doesnt do shit. In all honesty, I'm kind of over Full TR as a "thing," and musharna is the poster boy of 100% TR. even then its job is done better by Reuniclus now that the latter has Overcoat. D for this one.

Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
Very offensively threatening, very hard to switch in because of its frailty. I'm torn here, but I think it should stay B.

Jolteon falling to D rank.

YES.

Gallade falling to C rank.
Disagree. Gallade is better than C rank. I guess if you don't invest in defenses at all, it would strike you as incredibly frail, but it ain't. Very few pokemon work better on semi-TR, since it covers the valuable niche of "thing that beats fire types" also. It gets Feint, which is just a heavenly move, and crazy super effective coverage. B- at worst here.

Medicham being added to B rank.

I disagree, and think it should be added to C rank. Unfortunately, it's frail, and faces a lot of competition from Pokemon that are just as threatening but faster and don't take up your mega slot and are named Terrakion and Keldeo. Its perks are ridiculous atk and fake out, but that's not enough when its strongest reliable stab is fucking Drain Punch. If it had close combat, it would be different.

Porygon2 being added to C rank.

As i said with musharna, i'm really disenchanted with TR this gen. Porygon2 is TR. as setters go, its resistances are nice, and it can hit ok, but it's missing out on an immunity to either sleep or taunt and its typing is not conducive to team synergy. It doesn't carry enough support moves to be supportive nor have high enough SpA to be offensive. C rank, yes, but C-, maybe D+.




deo-a is so bad i prefer to forget it exists so idgaf there

 

[Celever]

OK guys I want to get good at this place so I will try and make a good post! Woohoo!
Deoxys-A rising to B rank.

Hm.. I'm not sure how good Deoxys-A will be. I mean, he's really powerful and everything, but he is so frail and he doesn't really have a priority move like Sucker Punch which he could just spam, leaving his really susceptible to priority and.. well Doubles is basically the tier where everybody uses priority. Because of this, it makes it pretty difficult to use Deoxys-A well because there are so many possible users of priority, using Quick Guard on a support Pokemon isn't even necessarily going to cut it. However, I believe that he will be OK in B rank, as although he is kinda team matchup reliant he is fairly consistent. Agree

Abomasnow falling to C rank.
Hmm.. I'm not quite so sure on this guy. While there is a huge rise in sun, he is pretty much the only good Hail setter in the tier, and I just don't feel like hail in general is worth C rank. It is still a very good playstyle when not up against sun, and there are many MANY teams which are not sun. If Abomasnow gets support from something like Jellicent (removes Fire Types, Trick Room) Abomasnow is truly a huge threat... and it required less support than Deo-A anyway. This is somewhat due to the fact that it can play both a supportive and offensive role... Disagree

Musharna falling to C rank.
This is mostly theorymon but I would certainly be OK with this. There are better Trick Room setters and Psychic Types as far as I'm concerned, and the niche of Telepathy is C rank at best. Agree

Shaymin-Sky rising to A rank.
Hmm... I've run into quite a few of these and I've been able to handle them OK, however I usually have Ice Shard on my team because... meh I like Ice Types, I don't like leaving them out :[. Nevertheless, it is very good on the ones I don't use Ice-Type Pokemon on (ik they're usually not very good which is why these teams exist) and the guy can be extremely very annoying with Tailwind, so I guess I have to Agree

Jolteon falling to D rank.
I thought that Jolteon was utter shit? Agree

Gallade falling to C rank.
Not used it much, but I saw it got a lot of hype so my guess would be that it got quite overrated. Like I said with Musharna, there are a lot of great Psychic-Type Pokemon, but actually I always thought Gallade to be one of them. Below you have Medicham there, who shares Gallade's typing and kind of their movepool, so I think that they are comparable to eachother. The thing is is that they both have two different niches, Gallade is a great user of Trick Room with a much better movepool, and it is bulkier. Medicham is a complete and utter offensive threat, however it doesn't have that good a movepool and it's defense is lackluster. However, Medicham's offensive stats are so good I feel like both of them should be B rank, so I Disagree with Gallade falling...

Medicham being added to B rank.
.. but I Agree with Medicham being place at this rank. (see above :p)

Porygon 2 being added to C rank.
Bulky Trick Room setter which isn't Psychic-Type or Ghost-Type is niche enough to place him at at least C-. Agree.

 

[Celever]

Ok guys after some testing I would like to make another nomination: (sorry for the double post, but 2 days is good enough for a bump right?)

For B Rank
I know that Flygon may seem a little farfetch'd for all of you guys, but honestly he is pretty good. He gets a pretty great movepool (including Heat Wave to counter/be on Sun Teams) and is pretty good both specially and physically, making him quite unpredictable. I understand that Flygon gets quite a bit of competition from other Ground-Type Pokemon such as Landorus-Therian, Landorus and Mamoswine, but Flygon gets fantastic doubles moves meaning it can sweep quite well with a Life Orb or even Yache Berry. Even though Landorus also does it, Flygon IS immune to Earthquake thanks to Levitate, but it also gets a better defensive typing for the metagame. For example, it quad-resists Heat Wave and normal-resists Rock Slide. Specially, it learns attacks such as the single-targetting Earth Power and Draco Meteor for a quick nuke on something like Charizard-Y, and my favourite set to use with Flygon is actually Choice Specs. While some may argue that Flygon is extremely niche, and yeah, he is pretty niche, it's not like Shedinja where it is only useful for one thing and that is its niche. Flygon gets a great movepool and good defensive typing, pretty good offensive typing (see: Garchomp), however its stats are definitely not the best, with 100 base points in Speed and Attack and everything else at 80. However, in the fast paced Doubles metagame this isn't all that bad - it can usually go before some of the bigger threats in the tier (speed-tying with Mega-Charizard-X and Mega-Kangaskhan. Actually most megas) and outspeeds the likes of Gardevoir and Kyurem-Black. Flygon is arguably C-Rank material... maybe, but as one of the best special-attacking Dragon-Types who can also run Physical, I think it deserves Low B.

 

[Electrolyte]

*Long* ass rant on Skymin

Skymin belongs in A Tier.

Honestly, in my time playing Doubles, I have not yet seen such a standalone attacker as Skymin (except maybe Deo-A.) From OP:

"Reserved for Pokemon that function very well within the current Doubles metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are either able to perform multiple roles to great effect, or execute one extremely well. Support Pokemon in this tier can create free turns, but not as easily as those in the S Rank.The flaws that the Pokemon in this tier may have are usually mitigated by their positive traits, or with minimal team support."

-Functions very well, check
-Performs one role (attacker) very well, check
-Boons: Fast, powerful, great offensive typing
Weaknesses: Frail?


I'm not going to go too much into detail and flesh out Shaymin's offensive power, since it seems that we all agree that it's got more than enough on that end. I'd like to address Shaymin's defensive disadvantages, which seems to be more of a major concern to everybody than a lack of desirable traits.

One thing I would first like to point out is that Shaymin-S in no way frail at all. 100 / 75 / 75 Defenses are really solid, comparable to that of Landorus and Hitmontop. Shaymin has many key resistances, such as a resistance to Fighting and Water as well as an immunity to Ground. These key resistances make it not only not entirely easy at all to take down and also very easy to synergize with, especially when combined with its frightening power. Shaymin-S very rarely falls to a neutral OHKO, and can even occasionally sponge a super effective attack too.

Priority in no way threatens Shaymin, except maybe Fake Out, but Fake Out threatens everything. Skymin resists Aqua Jet and is neutral to nearly every other priority attack (besides Ice Shard and Gale Wings BB.) Skymin can take down most priority users one on one anyway, including Mega Kangaskhan, who gets outspeed and 2HKOd, or Fighting-type Fake Out abusers, that just get KOd by Air Slash. Azumarill poses no threat at all, and is easily OHKOd by Seed Flare. Talonflame is the only priority attacker that threatens Skymin, but that's only one fairly uncommon Pokemon (that is easy to counter, too.) If you're talking about Prankster abuse, that doesn't apply specifically to Skymin; almost anything that has sacrificed some amounts of bulk for power is weak to status (Latios, Alakazam, Terrakion, Gengar, Thundurus, you name it)

Also, Speed Control can be annoying for Shaymin but it isn't stopping it from hitting A tier solidly. Trick Room and Tailwind can be stalled out with Protect, and if you choose to run Timid, a lot of Tailwind abusers still fail to outspeed you. (max timid outpaces +2 max base 80s and down, probably even more, I'd have to check) Skymin isn't any weaker to Speed control as Pokemon like Latios or Landorus-I are, so I don't see how that's enough to outweigh its immense power and deny itself of a spot in A tier.


Another thing I'd like to mention is that Skymin's movepool helps it overcome a lot of its defensive weaknesses. Things like Heat Wave Heatran or Rock Slide TTar / Lando / Hitmontop pose a threat only upon switchin; if Skymin gets in safely, all of those Pokemon can be OHKOd before they even lay down a finger. A lack of spread moves doesn't hinder Skymin either, nor should it for any other Pokemon, especially in this case, when Skymin has the immensely powerful Seed Flare and flinch abuse in Air Slash in its arsenal. With Earth Power, Skymin leaves very few holes in its defenses.



Skymin has flaws, but they are NOT drastic enough to keep it out of A Tier. Skymin is a very powerful Pokemon that can dish out lots of damage, and requires minimal support. That's why it deserves to be in A Tier.

 

[Lolk]

Deoxys-A rises to B rank.

Abomasnow falls to C rank.

Musharna falls to C rank.

<+Laga> I think skymin is a
<+Laga> is it b rn?
<~Lolk> y
<+Laga> lol wtf
<+Laga> is everyone high
<+Laga> skymin is amazing
<+Laga> it literally sets a speed tier

After Laga's tiebraker, Shaymin-Sky rises to A rank.

Jolteon falls to D rank.

<%Lolk> Gallade is 3-3 for dropping to C rank
<%Lolk> someone be the final vote rn itc
<&Laga> gallade in B
<&Laga> easily
<%Lolk> okie

After Laga's tiebreaker, Gallade remains in B rank.

Medicham is added to C rank.

Porygon-2 is added to C rank.

Nominations are unlocked. I added Darkmalice's post to the recently discussed pokemon section. Hall of Fame is too gaudy when I just want to keep Pokemon from having repeated nominations.

 

[Magcargo]

Bisharp ----> A Rank
I'll get more into this once I have time, but Bisharp has many things going for it, including Knock Off, Priority, an excellent STAB combo, and the ability to fuck up Pokemon with the ability Intimidate and certain methods of Speed control that make it an A-Rank Pokemon.

Ok guys after some testing I would like to make another nomination: (sorry for the double post, but 2 days is good enough for a bump right?)

For B Rank
I know that Flygon may seem a little farfetch'd for all of you guys, but honestly he is pretty good. He gets a pretty great movepool (including Heat Wave to counter/be on Sun Teams) and is pretty good both specially and physically, making him quite unpredictable. I understand that Flygon gets quite a bit of competition from other Ground-Type Pokemon such as Landorus-Therian, Landorus and Mamoswine, but Flygon gets fantastic doubles moves meaning it can sweep quite well with a Life Orb or even Yache Berry. Even though Landorus also does it, Flygon IS immune to Earthquake thanks to Levitate, but it also gets a better defensive typing for the metagame. For example, it quad-resists Heat Wave and normal-resists Rock Slide. Specially, it learns attacks such as the single-targetting Earth Power and Draco Meteor for a quick nuke on something like Charizard-Y, and my favourite set to use with Flygon is actually Choice Specs. While some may argue that Flygon is extremely niche, and yeah, he is pretty niche, it's not like Shedinja where it is only useful for one thing and that is its niche. Flygon gets a great movepool and good defensive typing, pretty good offensive typing (see: Garchomp), however its stats are definitely not the best, with 100 base points in Speed and Attack and everything else at 80. However, in the fast paced Doubles metagame this isn't all that bad - it can usually go before some of the bigger threats in the tier (speed-tying with Mega-Charizard-X and Mega-Kangaskhan. Actually most megas) and outspeeds the likes of Gardevoir and Kyurem-Black. Flygon is arguably C-Rank material... maybe, but as one of the best special-attacking Dragon-Types who can also run Physical, I think it deserves Low B.

A majority of what is stated here is false and you've completely ignored the fact the Garchomp and Salamence outclasses Flygon in nearly every way possible.

 

[Electrolyte]

Scizor dropping from A to B

I'm really skeptical about Scizor in A, to be honest. Physical Steel-type offense in this metagame is exceedingly lackluster, and Scizor's weaknesses to common Pokemon, strategies, and attack types really limits its offensive capabilities. The prevalence of Intimidate really kills it; the best it can do most of the time is U-Turn or Bug Bite some things and maybe revenge kill something with Bullet Punch but usually nothing else. There are plenty of other much better Steel-types in the meta that all fight for and take over Scizor's niche, and it lacks true unique and defining qualities that make it stand out. Fire-types run over it, Steel-types run over it, Bulky Water-types run over it, Intimidate runs over it, and it just generally has a hard time getting anything done, since almost every team carries like three of those things. Scizor's Mega Evolution is also hardly better; all it really gets are stat boosts that don't make any noticeable differences in its offensive capability, so it often loses that spot to other Mega Evolutions such as Garchomp or Mawile. It doesn't even have the standard bulky capabilities of most other Steel-types because its Bug typing gives it so many unhealthy weaknesses.

Personally if we are to ever implement split tiers I would rather see Scizor go to A- / B+ but right now it doesn't deserve to stay in A tier, in my opinion, so we'll have to compensate.

 

[youngjake93]

Scizor dropping from A to B

I'm really skeptical about Scizor in A, to be honest. Physical Steel-type offense in this metagame is exceedingly lackluster, and Scizor's weaknesses to common Pokemon, strategies, and attack types really limits its offensive capabilities. The prevalence of Intimidate really kills it; the best it can do most of the time is U-Turn or Bug Bite some things and maybe revenge kill something with Bullet Punch but usually nothing else. There are plenty of other much better Steel-types in the meta that all fight for and take over Scizor's niche, and it lacks true unique and defining qualities that make it stand out. Fire-types run over it, Steel-types run over it, Bulky Water-types run over it, Intimidate runs over it, and it just generally has a hard time getting anything done, since almost every team carries like three of those things. Scizor's Mega Evolution is also hardly better; all it really gets are stat boosts that don't make any noticeable differences in its offensive capability, so it often loses that spot to other Mega Evolutions such as Garchomp or Mawile. It doesn't even have the standard bulky capabilities of most other Steel-types because its Bug typing gives it so many unhealthy weaknesses.

Personally if we are to ever implement split tiers I would rather see Scizor go to A- / B+ but right now it doesn't deserve to stay in A tier, in my opinion, so we'll have to compensate.

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 196-232 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 230-270 (71.8 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

88+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 147-174 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 339-399 (111.5 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 398-468 (130.9 - 153.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Some more LO calcs
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 278-329 (83.2 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Feint vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 186-220 (58.8 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (one of my favorites lol)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Feint vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 173-204 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 364-429 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Scizor is literally on weak to 1 type btw bro. It doesn't have "so many unhealthy weaknesses." Bulky Water types and Intimidate obviously do not run all over it(although they don't help its case too much). Scizor is a really good Pokemon that is on par with Garchomp and Mawile in my opinion. Landorus-T and Rotom-W are actually more troublesome for those two than Scizor too, so I don't understand how you are using that to justify moving Scizor down.

 

[Bughouse]

Honestly, being the best stop in the meta to Sylveon under TR, Cress, and also having Feint just make it so freaking useful.

Not to mention that it has a Mega Form if you want to go that route. It's got a limited movepool, sure, but it's a very effective one. I've used Scizor quite a lot, and despite the Intimidates and Fire types flying around, I still think it's A tier.

 

[mimi]

To make it brief, you want Scizor outside of a? RuondrugZm8? In all honesty though it's a great mon

 

[Nollan]

While Scizor is great, I definitely think (especially with the possibility of Sleep Clause getting removed) Escavalier gives Scizor heavy competition, boasting Drill Run for Heatran, Overcoat, and an insanely powerful Megahorn (it even gets Knock Off...).

I'd actually be OK with Scizor in B, though if anything I'd actually like to see Escavalier rise, as with TR or Thunder Wave support it will completely obliterate teams.

 

[Darkmalice]

Nominating Slowbro for C rank

It's essentially Slowking with its defence and special defence stats swapped. Otherwise they're the same.

As we know, special bulk is generally better in doubles for 3 reasons - more special attackers, Intimidate, and Burn. So usually Slowking > Slowbro. However, there are perks to using Slowbro. It's arguably better on a team that does not utilise Intimidate or Burn. It also fairs better against Bisharp who can not be weakened by Intimidate. Slowbro can actually survive Bisharp's Knock Off.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Slowbro: 330-393 (83.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. This is the minimial defense requirement to survive Knock Off. Useful if you really need to get that TR up. Sitrus Berry and Regenerator can then restore over half of the HP lost.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 367-432 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO. Slowking never has a guaranteed chance to survive, and it should not be running this much physical defense anyways.

The extra physical bulk also helps against Fighting-types, which makes good use of its Psychic-type.

Now Slowking is still overall better than Slowbro thanks to the special bulk, but Slowbro is not entirely outclassed, so C-rank is fitting for Slowbro. Especially considering that Slowking is currently B rank.

 

[Lasagne]

Nominating Slowbro for C rank

It's essentially Slowking with its defence and special defence stats swapped. Otherwise they're the same.

As we know, special bulk is generally better in doubles for 3 reasons - more special attackers, Intimidate, and Burn. So usually Slowking > Slowbro. However, there are perks to using Slowbro. It's arguably better on a team that does not utilise Intimidate or Burn. It also fairs better against Bisharp who can not be weakened by Intimidate. Slowbro can actually survive Bisharp's Knock Off.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Slowbro: 330-393 (83.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. This is the minimial defense requirement to survive Knock Off. Useful if you really need to get that TR up. Sitrus Berry and Regenerator can then restore over half of the HP lost.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 367-432 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO. Slowking never has a guaranteed chance to survive, and it should not be running this much physical defense anyways.

The extra physical bulk also helps against Fighting-types, which makes good use of its Psychic-type.

Now Slowking is still overall better than Slowbro thanks to the special bulk, but Slowbro is not entirely outclassed, so C-rank is fitting for Slowbro. Especially considering that Slowking is currently B rank.

slowbro was moved to c rank earlier on in the thread, i think Lolkomori just forgot to put it back in after taking it out of b.

 

[Darkmalice]

slowbro was moved to c rank earlier on in the thread, i think Lolkomori just forgot to put it back in after taking it out of b.

You're right. Found the post on page 2 of this thread.

In that case to get the ball rolling, I'll nominate Victini for B-rank.

V-create hits extraordinarily hard To demonstrate V-create's power, it always 2HKO 252 HP / 40 Def Cress without an item boost or a weather boost (ignoring Sitrus Berry, but Sitrus variants will be 2HKOed with at least a Life Orb). With sun support, it is a nuke that OHKOes everything that doesn't resist it sans Cress and that's without an item boost. Bolt Strike boosts good power too and provides good coverage with V-Create, particularly against Mega Zard Y and Politoed (it's not auto-fucked if rain gets up). It can also has other coverage options for Brick Break, which can 2HKO Heatran with at least a LO boost whilst not being OHKOed by Earth Power in return, Zen Headbutt for Fighting-types, and U-turn for Choice sets. Unlike other physical attackers, it is immune to burn which is always a plus.

Victini does have common weaknesses, but 100/100/100 bulk is enough to back them up. For example, with only 16 HP, Victini will never be OHKOed by Landorus-T's EQ. In fact, -1 CB V-create will outdamage it against a 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus. Mega Khan also cannot OHKO Victini, and depending on Mega Khan's and Victini's item, it may actually be OHKOed by V-create.

100 Speed is enough to get the job done. Victini can run a variety of sets like a straight-out LO / Charcoal attacker, CB, Scarf (pair with Zard Y), or a TR set. Even a Fusion Flare / Fusion Bolt combo with Kyurem-B if you're daring.

It's ability, whilst not great, can be useful for teammates lik Mega Zard Y with Heat Wav, Fire Blast, Overheat and/or Focus Blast.

What holds Victini back is its common weaknesses, V-create's drawbacks, vulnerability to Sucker Punch, Intimidate which can turn many favourable match-ups for Victini into unfavourable match-ups (though the latter can be mitigated by sunlight), and competition with other Fire-types for a teamslot (though Victini is not outclassed and varies substantially from the commonly used Fire-types). But its perks qualify it for B rank.

 

[Speedholes]

So uh for some reason Zapdos isn't even listed?

Nominating Zapdos for B rank.

Great bulk (90/85/90) mixed with great offensive stats (125/100) and a good Electric/Flying typing, along with moves such as Tailwind, Roar and Heat Wave means it still has a niche over other Electric types, while it also gets the standard Electric moves such as Twave and Light Screen. It can actually act as an answer to threats like Scizor, while Tailwind lets it smack Excadrill and Kingdra under their respective weathers with the right investment. Tailwind and Zapdos' complementary typing and offensive presence make it a great offensive support for ground types such as Lando-T, Garchomp, Mamoswine and Excadrill. All around a really solid mon that works on alot of teams.

It can't do much to threaten Ground or Dragon types (unless it runs HP Ice) or stuff like Tyranitar, while its typing does give it some annoying weaknesses to Rock and Ice. Other than the moves I listed it doesn't have a very broad movepool so it can be pretty predictable, but I don't think it's really outclassed. B rank feels fitting for this old staple.

 

[Kashinn]

So uh for some reason Zapdos isn't even listed?

Nominating Zapdos for B rank.

Ah Zapdos, the memories. Heat wave, Discharge, Thunderbolt, Detect. It was one of the few that I was able to take into Triples from Doubles, though this was prior to the Wide Guard buff and before the introduction of new Pokemon or simply old Pokemon learning new moves in general. So taking that into consideration I don't know if Zapdos has fallen in doubles since the days of DPPtHGSS but I used to love using it with Swampert having Avalanche, Earthquake, Protect, Hammer Arm.


For some reason I'm not too comfortable with the idea of ranking Pokemon in doubles simply because of how I believe team-building works in doubles. But it does remain true that there are some that are more effective in doubles (just in general) than others. So it'll be interesting to see where this thread leads to.

I do wonder though, am I correct to assume that this thread is meant to rank Pokemon based on their collective role-specifics, the number of roles, and general effectiveness of fulfilling those roles? If otherwise, could anyone help to clarify where it may be needed?

 

[Lolk]

Hmm maybe if I lock nominations with fewer mons more people will add their input.

Nominations are locked!

Discuss:

Flygon placement (not B lol)

Scizor dropping from A to B

Bisharp rising from B to A

Victini placement

Zapdos placement

 

[Magcargo]

Hmm maybe if I lock nominations with fewer mons more people will add their input.

Nominations are locked!

Discuss:

Flygon placement (not B lol)

Scizor dropping from A to B

Victini placement

Zapdos placement

You forgot moving Bisharp from B-rank to A-Rank.