Tournament Doubles World Cup III - Discussion Thread

[ryo yamada2001]

DOUBLES WORLD CUP III Discussion Thread​

Welcome to the third installment of the Doubles World Cup! I'm bunnyy/May/Lily, your host for this Doubles World Cup to be played in all SV.

This year we are looking to open sign ups on the 20th of November, the Sunday on the weekend of Scarlet & Violet's release! Sign ups will be open for two weeks, meaning we're aiming to start the first round on the 5th of December.

We are looking to expand the tournament from 6 to 8 teams — with US Central and Italy as tentative additions — with 8 starters and 4 substitutes each. To realize this expansion, players who participated on US East or US West in World Cup II but are now US Central eligible can only play for US Central, and those eligible for Italy can no longer play for Europe. Players unaffected by region splits — such as APAC and Canada — will be allowed to grandfather in players who were on the World Cup II roster even if they would not have eligibility by normal means.

In this larger format we will change the playoffs from 3 teams with the #1 seed having a bye to the Finals, to a playoffs with 4 teams with the #1 seed fighting the #4th seed. We could also adjust the first round to have pools of 5 players instead of 4, meaning players would play 4 games in 2 weeks during this round.

The rest of the tournament will follow the same structure as last year's edition: pools will be bo1 SV (current gen) DOU, while the playoffs are 8v8 bo1 SV DOU with 3v3 bo1 tiebreakers if necessary. Substitutes in pools will be substituted for the entirety of the pool phase.

CURRENT LIST OF INCLUDED REGIONS (TENTATIVE UNTIL SIGNUPS OCCUR):
- US WEST
- US EAST
- CANADA
- LATIN AMERICA
- EUROPE
- ASIA PACIFIC & REST OF THE WORLD
- ITALY (NEW)
- US CENTRAL (NEW)

Use this thread to discuss potential changes to included regions, team sizes, pool sizes, tournament dates, and eligibility rules. For any questions you can DM or ping me on the Doubles Discord at May#3456. We're looking forward to another fun Doubles World Cup to kick off the new generation!

All players on the winning team will receive 1 custom avi!

 

[Crunchman]

8 teams is great, love the possibility. 8 starters/12 man rosters is a little more daunting. 1st issue being more teams, less strong players per team. 2nd being its actually going to be a brand new meta. Leaning on reusing to supplement building as has been somewhat common in past DWCOPs is a little less feasible this year (although not impossible). It's... a lot of building, each team surely is building at least 16 fresh teams for 24-32 games (depending on format) in a new meta in 2 weeks. For reference, DPL was 12 teams in 2 weeks and reusing was allowed; this puts probably at least double the strain on building.

Although, to be fair, I do think every proposed region should be able to fill in 8 slots reasonably and some teams would likely have starter quality players on the bench if we did 6 slots. So I don't really have a solution yet but I want to point out the huge amount of building that 8 slots in new meta with some teams losing players to the newly created teams would cause.

 

[Grandmas Cookin]

this might come across as me complaining but i am not sure 8 starters is gonna be viable especially with this being a new gen, usa being split into 3 teams again and canada losing a quality player from last year off of a rule not part of singles world cup that we are apparently following. i cant speak for any other teams because i dont know every doubles players nationality so i cant accurately estimate team sizes but this is potentially a problem with 8 starters.

 

[Toxigen]

hype

 

[Xrn]

go team bath & body works

 

[Fangame10]

I've never played in dwcop before, so hopefully I'll be a lucky pick!

Also do you think we could get a map in this thread of what team the US States would be in?

 

[Teals]

shaian 4 canada captain

 

[Fran]

I would urge the hosts to consider either including Italy inside of Europe or reducing the number of starters to 6. Last year Italians comprised half of our team and 62% of our starters. Multiple potential starters have reached out to me with this concern and if something doesn't change it could lead to players not signing up or not trying their best. We also need to find a healthy balance between making it fun for established players vs making it inclusive for new players. With 8 starters I can image having to fill at least half of the line-up with inexperienced players. I believe this would be worse for both sides, as new players wouldn't get enough attention individually and there would be higher pressure on them to perform, while the more experienced players would have to support too many slots and the outcomes of their games wouldn't matter as much for the overall score. With 6 starters the best newcomers would get a chance to play in a team tournament and the quality of the games wouldn't suffer. Attaching our line-up from last year.

 

[Toxigen]

Frania makes a good point, however i will ad that 6 starters should be our starting point, with 8 only be considered after signups. With 6 starters, im pretty confident forming 8 teams will not be an issue whatsoever, while choosing to go with 8 without knowing who signs up makes it very difficult to slot 8 players + potentially 4 subs. I understand there is nothing at stake for this tour and we mostly want to have fun, but i also dont think this should be our approach when deciding tour formats for dou. We should still strive for a balanced tour where most if not all of our players are experienced with the tier, and we should minimize the number of filler slots managers pick to complete their lineup. This should in theory help close the gap between regions, as some of them (like europe, italy and some of the us ones) can benefit from the 8 slots rule. Having said all that, i think we shouldnt close the door to 8 slots, as it will always depend on the number of signups.


tl;dr
Make 6 slots the default as it will help form 8 teams much easier, dont close the door to 8 slots but consider it only AFTER signups.

 

[Chloe]

Starting from this year's edition we will be following the singles World Cup eligibility rules, with no grandfathering in from last year's edition.

I said this in the doubles discord but it's probably better for a more public forum like this. I don't understand why you're going out of your way to make a separate rule JUST to exclude me from playing for Team Canada and nobody else. The tour should just be following standard WCoP rules, I played for Canada last year, there were no issues, I should be allowed to play for them again. This is incredibly unprofessional hosting and really not a great sign of things to come, if your main priority here is to break up existing teams, for no actual good reason. It really makes no sense logically, especially considering you're going against actual world cup rules just to enforce this. It is a stupid rule that I believe shouldn't exist. If I'm forced to play for Rest of World, I won't be playing in Doubles World Cup.

 

[zee]

3 games in the pools phase is fine

strongly urge hosts to pivot to 6 starters 3 subs by default and then increase if numbers can support

please let chloe play for canada and nido play for apac, they should really be grandfathered in from their last performances

8 teams is so good please dont cut them

were tiebreakers bo3 last year? genuinely dont remember, seems like a lot of teams to prep in an already stressful circumstance and official tiebreakers are bo1, but im not gonna lose sleep over this

 

[MajorBowman]

3 games in the pools phase is fine

strongly urge hosts to pivot to 6 starters 3 subs by default and then increase if numbers can support

please let chloe play for canada and nido play for apac, they should really be grandfathered in from their last performances

8 teams is so good please dont cut them

were tiebreakers bo3 last year? genuinely dont remember, seems like a lot of teams to prep in an already stressful circumstance and official tiebreakers are bo1, but im not gonna lose sleep over this

big agree with all of this, wcop eligibility rules might be wack af but no need to yank people out of their prior teams for what is really just a tour we do for fun.

8 teams is cool though i share the sentiment that 8 teams + 8 starters could be kinda rough

pretty sure what they meant by bo3 tiebreaker was 3 bo1s like we did in the past but correct me if i'm wrong

 

[ryo yamada2001]

RE: Grandfathering in Doubles World Cup III
After deliberation we have decided to allow grandfathering from last year's edition. Our initial proposal meant to reset eligibility so we could follow singles World Cup rules consistently, meaning to eliminate so-called 'cultural eligibility claims', to avoid repeating controversies and exceptions, and to be fair to every team. However, in the spirit of the tournament we found it inappropriate to displace past edition's players from teams unaffected by the creation of new ones. As such, Chloe and Nido-Rus will be allowed to play on Canada and APAC respectively.

To clarify, this only applies to players who participated in World Cup II on teams that have not been affected by region splits. To realize this World Cup's expansion to 8 teams: players who participated on US East or US West in World Cup II but are now US Central eligible can only play for US Central, and those eligible for Italy can no longer play for Europe.

RE: US eligibility clarification
With the inclusion of US Central, we will be using this map for United States eligibility rules:

The thread OP will be updated to reflect these changes later

 

[Fishy]

hoping to represent US WEST!!!!

 

[Idyll]

LETS GO APAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Arcticblast]

I had forgotten about pogarina for so long

ten reacts and we delete team APAC
for legal reasons this is a joke

 

[QianJiang-China]

Why there is not a Team China

 

[Crunchman]

Why there is not a Team China

If enough Chinese players sign up, the regions could probably be modified

 

[shaian]

shaian for canada and china manager

 

[Teals]

shaian for canada and china manager

 

[QianJiang-China]

Probably there wont be China Team ,because we have not enough excellent 8dou players

 

[Crunchman]

DWCOP is in 9dou!!

 

[Mom Lover]

finally some midwest representation. cant wait to spectate this tour

 

[Teals]

finally some midwest representation. cant wait to spectate this tour

Midwest is greatest nation in the entire world

 

[Togenium Z]

Central let me play frfr