Hello everyone!
After SPL ended, a Dugtrio thread was made that did not gain much traction, with council members such as myself and BKC defending Dugtrio’s place in the metagame. However, the DPP council as a whole has shifted and we would like to hold a vote on Dugtrio (by extension Arena Trap) in the near future, with a second vote similar to DPP Latias and BW sleep. Before doing so, we wanted to hear some additional input from the community.
I’ll start off this thread by sharing my opinion on Dugtrio.
The main “problematic” pokemon in this tier are usually deemed to be Jirachi, Clefable, and Dugtrio. I think that right now the DPP meta is quite good, but there is definitely room for improvement and addressing some of DPP’s issues. After a lot of thought, I think that Dugtrio is the biggest issue here. On its own, it is not “broken”; however, it tremendously enables Jirachi and Clefable to the point where addressing them in the teambuilder is a massive headache. For example, the combination of Dugtrio and Bold Calm Mind Clefable has a very limited number of answers, as you cannot rely on grounded/trappable Pokemon like Heatran, Breloom, and Tyranitar alone to answer Clefable. In addition, Calm Mind Clefable compensates tremendously for many of Dugtrio’s defensive flaws by answering Dragon Dance Gyarados and handling Dragon Dance Dragonite in a pinch, even always surviving any of MixNite’s attacks from full. With the metagame taking a slower pace due to Latias’s reentry, there is significantly more defensive compensation for Dugtrio (via defensive Latias, Jirachi, Calm Mind Clefable, etc).
Heatran is one of the best breakers in DPP, and it is also the Pokemon that Dugtrio can most consistently trap. Heatran is the most secure answer to Jirachi, and it has several tools to threaten prominent defensive pieces like Clefable and Latias. By trapping Heatran with great consistency, Dugtrio is limiting the usage of the most consistent Jirachi answer and a Pokemon capable of combatting Calm Mind Clefable very nicely. Heatran, in my opinion, is an extremely good but very healthy Pokemon to have in the metagame. Without Dugtrio, Heatran will be incredible again but it will not be broken or problematic whatsoever, only benefitting the metagame by giving us more counterplay to Jirachi and Clefable.
It's worth mentioning that while Dugtrio cannot safely trap Choice Scarf Heatran, it is extremely uncommon and frankly not good right now, as Heatran strongly desires Leftovers to fortify itself against the likes of Jirachi and Latias.
So what are some counterarguments in favor of Dugtrio? I’ve seen several people cite Impish Jirachi as a grounded answer to Dugtrio + CM Clef, but actually Jirachi cannot beat Bold CM Clef reliably unless Leftovers have been removed. So, while it’s favored with 60% odds vs Dugtrio, it doesn’t need to be trapped necessarily for Clefable. Another interesting argument is that we “lose a counter” to Knock Off Clefable, which is very oppressive. While this has some merit, Knock Off Clefable can run Protect, which enables it to very consistently beat Dugtrio. In addition, it becomes easier to answer Knock Off Clefable without worrying about Dugtrio lurking in the back and having to tiptoe around it.
Dugtrio enabling many cheesy strategies and matchup fishes that take the game out of the player’s hands is only the tip of the iceberg. Overall, I think the biggest concerns I have with the current metagame are Jirachi, Clefable, and that we don’t have enough wallbreakers in the tier right now. Removing Dugtrio makes Jirachi and Clefable far more manageable while having pretty much no apparent drawbacks. In addition, it enables the use of great wallbreakers that Dugtrio severely limits. It lowers the potential for matchup wins via a U-turn into a surprise Dugtrio on Heatran/Tyranitar/other trappable Pokemon. Players will not be punished for using the best Pokemon in the tier to answer another one of the best Pokemon in the tier, emphasizing playing skill instead of matchup-fishing nonsense.
Also, just to clarify again, this vote will be on Arena Trap rather than just Dugtrio. With only Dugtrio gone, people would almost certainly use Diglett and maybe even Trapinch to exploit Arena Trap. While these Pokemon are terrible, they can still find ways to cheese the opponent (Diglett can still consistently trap Heatran and there is potential for gimmicky Trapinch setups via Trick Room and paraspreading). We do not want to make the same mistake that was made in BW, where Arena Trap had to be banned after only Dugtrio was banned.
Thanks for reading.
After SPL ended, a Dugtrio thread was made that did not gain much traction, with council members such as myself and BKC defending Dugtrio’s place in the metagame. However, the DPP council as a whole has shifted and we would like to hold a vote on Dugtrio (by extension Arena Trap) in the near future, with a second vote similar to DPP Latias and BW sleep. Before doing so, we wanted to hear some additional input from the community.
I’ll start off this thread by sharing my opinion on Dugtrio.
The main “problematic” pokemon in this tier are usually deemed to be Jirachi, Clefable, and Dugtrio. I think that right now the DPP meta is quite good, but there is definitely room for improvement and addressing some of DPP’s issues. After a lot of thought, I think that Dugtrio is the biggest issue here. On its own, it is not “broken”; however, it tremendously enables Jirachi and Clefable to the point where addressing them in the teambuilder is a massive headache. For example, the combination of Dugtrio and Bold Calm Mind Clefable has a very limited number of answers, as you cannot rely on grounded/trappable Pokemon like Heatran, Breloom, and Tyranitar alone to answer Clefable. In addition, Calm Mind Clefable compensates tremendously for many of Dugtrio’s defensive flaws by answering Dragon Dance Gyarados and handling Dragon Dance Dragonite in a pinch, even always surviving any of MixNite’s attacks from full. With the metagame taking a slower pace due to Latias’s reentry, there is significantly more defensive compensation for Dugtrio (via defensive Latias, Jirachi, Calm Mind Clefable, etc).
Heatran is one of the best breakers in DPP, and it is also the Pokemon that Dugtrio can most consistently trap. Heatran is the most secure answer to Jirachi, and it has several tools to threaten prominent defensive pieces like Clefable and Latias. By trapping Heatran with great consistency, Dugtrio is limiting the usage of the most consistent Jirachi answer and a Pokemon capable of combatting Calm Mind Clefable very nicely. Heatran, in my opinion, is an extremely good but very healthy Pokemon to have in the metagame. Without Dugtrio, Heatran will be incredible again but it will not be broken or problematic whatsoever, only benefitting the metagame by giving us more counterplay to Jirachi and Clefable.
It's worth mentioning that while Dugtrio cannot safely trap Choice Scarf Heatran, it is extremely uncommon and frankly not good right now, as Heatran strongly desires Leftovers to fortify itself against the likes of Jirachi and Latias.
So what are some counterarguments in favor of Dugtrio? I’ve seen several people cite Impish Jirachi as a grounded answer to Dugtrio + CM Clef, but actually Jirachi cannot beat Bold CM Clef reliably unless Leftovers have been removed. So, while it’s favored with 60% odds vs Dugtrio, it doesn’t need to be trapped necessarily for Clefable. Another interesting argument is that we “lose a counter” to Knock Off Clefable, which is very oppressive. While this has some merit, Knock Off Clefable can run Protect, which enables it to very consistently beat Dugtrio. In addition, it becomes easier to answer Knock Off Clefable without worrying about Dugtrio lurking in the back and having to tiptoe around it.
Dugtrio enabling many cheesy strategies and matchup fishes that take the game out of the player’s hands is only the tip of the iceberg. Overall, I think the biggest concerns I have with the current metagame are Jirachi, Clefable, and that we don’t have enough wallbreakers in the tier right now. Removing Dugtrio makes Jirachi and Clefable far more manageable while having pretty much no apparent drawbacks. In addition, it enables the use of great wallbreakers that Dugtrio severely limits. It lowers the potential for matchup wins via a U-turn into a surprise Dugtrio on Heatran/Tyranitar/other trappable Pokemon. Players will not be punished for using the best Pokemon in the tier to answer another one of the best Pokemon in the tier, emphasizing playing skill instead of matchup-fishing nonsense.
Also, just to clarify again, this vote will be on Arena Trap rather than just Dugtrio. With only Dugtrio gone, people would almost certainly use Diglett and maybe even Trapinch to exploit Arena Trap. While these Pokemon are terrible, they can still find ways to cheese the opponent (Diglett can still consistently trap Heatran and there is potential for gimmicky Trapinch setups via Trick Room and paraspreading). We do not want to make the same mistake that was made in BW, where Arena Trap had to be banned after only Dugtrio was banned.
Thanks for reading.
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