DPP Kingdra (Choice Specs)*

[RaikouLover]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/kingdra

This set was removed from the analysis and I don't know why? I've been using this set to the extreme lately and it still works perfectly.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Surf
move 4: Dragon Pulse
item: Choice Specs
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Kingdra's Dragon and Water STAB form a nearly perfect combination to make an effective Choice Specs set. Dragon and Water hits everything in OU except Empoleon for neutral damage, so there is no reason to use any other attacks other than STAB for this set. The idea is to come in on predicted non-damaging support moves, or Fire and Water attacks and unleash pain on your opponent. Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump are good early game moves for tearing wholes in the opposing team. Dragon Pulse and Surf make good moves for cleaning up in the lategame, with decent power and perfect accuracy.</p>

<p>With four STAB moves, it is important to know when it is appropriate to use each attack. Both Dragon and Water as types have very strong neutral coverage hitting most types for consistent damage, therefore either STAB is usually a safe option. However, the choice on which move to use depends mainly on what Kingdra switches into. For example, if Kingdra switches in on a Heatran Fire Blast in the early game, Draco Meteor is the best option to use as it will beat Naive Scarftrans whether the switch or not, and will maim the incoming Water resist. If Kingdra switches into a Choice Latias locked into Surf, Hydro Pump becomes a better option to nail the incoming steels. In the mid to late game, Surf and Hydro Pump are generally safer options because most Water-resists are water-type Pokemon and do not threaten Kingdra directly.</p>

<p>While Draco Meteor is the most powerful move on the set but comes at the price of harshly lowering the special attack after each use. Therefore, it should be used prudently to prevent the opponent from setting up. Draco Meteor along with with Kingdra's decent Speed and bulk make this set a good revenge killer and psuedo counter to certain threats such as Gyarados and Will-O-Wisp or Overheat Rotom-A.</p>

<p>The EVs on the set allow Kingdra to outspeed Adamant Lucario, Jolly Mamoswine and Adamant Gyarados before a Dragon Dance, which gives Kingdra a chance to defeat them before they wreak havoc. It is important to note that the preferred ability on this set is Swift Swim, because a Timid Kingdra with 286 Speed outspeeds everything commonly seen on a Rain Dance team, and other Kingdra almost never run +Spe nature thanks to Dragon Dance and Rain Dance.</p>

<p>Like any offensive pokemon, Kingdra will appreciate residual damage to secure more KOs. However, Specs Kingdra is more of a supporter for the team, as it offers a very sturdy resist to Fire and Water attacks and the power to retailiate against many pokemon that carry those moves. Therefore, pairing Kingdra with Pokemon that have weaknesses to these types will allow more opportunties for Kingdra to get in and fire off attacks. One thing to note is that Kingdra is susceptible to Toxic Spikes and neutral to Stealth Rock, so a grounded poison-type or a rapid spinner will increase the amount of times Kingdra will enter the field to do damage.</p>

 

[YTP]

It looks fine. I just wanted to talk about set comments...

Why no mention of something along the lines of "Since this pokemon lures out xxx physical walls, a physical sweeper like metagross could take advantage" or something like that. Many people expect dragon dance when they see kingdra.

 

[diinbong]

Wow I can't believe this set was removed. I've personally used it and it works fantastically. By the way though, we still have the old set comments; they're just not onsite. Here's a few we already have for this set to keep in mind:

<p>Purely special version of the previous set. You can't hurt Blissey much, but this has some advantage over the mixed version. You don't need Attack EVs, so you can max out Speed making revenge killing Kingdra a much harder task. Surf and Dragon Pulse hit everything except Shedinja and Empoleon for at least neutral damage. Hydro Pump can be used for some extra power (it does provide an OHKO on Swampert and Metagross), but Surf's reliability makes it the better choice. Signal Beam may seem over-specific, but scores some nice KOs against Celebi and Abomasnow after Stealth Rock. Hidden Power Electric is an alternative option if you don't particularly fear the aforementioned Grass-type Pokemon as it hits Empoleon; 2HKOing offensive versions, and does slightly more damage to other Water-types in comparison to STAB Dragon Pulse (140 vs. 135) and a lot more to Gyarados.</p>

<p>Maximum Speed is used because Speed tying with opposing Kingdra can be game breaking. You also outspeed all common Choice Scarf users including the common Timid Choice Scarf Latias. Maximum Special Attack is obvious to hit as hard as possible with the rest thrown in HP. An alternative, slightly bulkier EV spread of 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe can be used though. These EVs generate 247 Speed, which allows you to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar before you Rain Dance, and positive natured Scarfed base 100s while it's raining. You will lose to Timid Choice Scarf Latias and most opposing Kingdra’s though. Life Orb is used for the power boost which makes Surf such a deadly attack. You could use Damp Rock, but generally this Kingdra should be sweeping not supporting.</p>

<p>Similarly to the Mixed Rain Dance set, Stealth Rock support is recommended. Azelf, Bronzong, Jirachi, and Swampert are the best options for this on Rain Dance, and also do well outside of it, although Swampert less because of similar typing. Toxic Spikes wreck this set so having a Rapid Spinner such as Starmie can be useful to get rid of them. Starmie can also set up Rain Dance itself. Qwilfish and Roserade can absorb the Toxic Spikes, and Roserade can set up its own to help against the bulky Water-types and Celebi, while it can also set up Rain Dance. Qwilfish also makes a deadly Rain Dance sweeper so it makes a nice partner.</p>

<p>This set is a lot harder to revenge kill, but there are still many Pokemon which cause it problems. Bulky Water-types with the exception of Swampert can counter this set well as even Hidden Power Electric won’t 2HKO most of them. Ludicolo therefore makes an amazing partner to this on Rain Dance teams to deal with them using powerful STAB Grass-type attacks. Jolteon, Rotom-W, and Zapdos can also do well against the aforementioned Pokemon. This set has trouble against special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax. Choice Band Dugtrio can therefore make a nice partner to trap and 2HKO Blissey, as well as finishing off weakened Snorlax. Scizor can make a nice partner as Superpower takes care of Blissey and Snorlax. It can also do well against Tyranitar and Abomasnow who annoy this Kingdra by taking away its precious rain. Kingdra can hit Abomasnow with Signal Beam though, but it will still disrupt your momentum. The previously mentioned Choice Band Dugtrio can trap and OHKO the less bulky versions of Tyranitar with Earthquake as well as finishing off weakened Abomasnow with Stone Edge. Swampert can counter Tyranitar so it makes a nice partner for Kingdra.</p>

<p>This set, in one word: fireworks. If Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump gets a critical hit, we're talking about enough power to bring down full health Blissey. Hidden Power Electric is nice for smacking Empoleon around, although you can use any type that is super effective on the steel penguin, such as Fighting or Ground. However, Electric is recommended as it prevents Milotic and Vaporeon from recovering off damage until Draco Meteor loses its power. Dragon Pulse gives you a more reliable Dragon-type attack for late game sweeping, but Ice Beam is good for Grass-types, Celebi in particular.</p>

<p>If you don't care to take your chances in a Speed tie with Heracross and the like you can drop Kingdra's Speed to either 263 (228 EVs) to outrun all Breloom, 260 (216 EVs) to beat Adamant Mamoswine, or 254 (192 EVs) to get the drop on Modest Heatran. Remaining EVs go in HP.</p>

I personally would like a rewrite of the set though...stuff like Signal Beam and Ice Beam aren't good options. Also, in my use of this set I've personally found Heatran an awesome partner if used right. It can LO Explode on Blissey and bulky Waters, plus beats Celebi. Other Pokemon who can help against this guy's counters are good in team options. Also I think Sniper deserves at least a small mention in the set comments considering "If Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump gets a critical hit, we're talking about enough power to bring down full health Blissey.".

 

[supermarth64]

Joel's reasoning for the removal of Choice Specs:

-Removed Choice Specs set, it’s hardly used and is outclassed by better Choice Specs users

I think that he had Latias in mind, which can switch into a lot more attacks and hit with a stronger Draco Meteor, along with cripple Blissey with Trick. Also, if you look at the stats:

September:
| Kingdra | Item | Other (3) | < 3.4 |
October:
| Kingdra | Item | Other (5) | < 3.2 |
November:
| Kingdra | Item | Other (4) | < 3.0 |

 

[RaikouLover]

-Removed Choice Specs set, it’s hardly used and is outclassed by better Choice Specs users

That was never considered a reasonable justification for removing a viable set :(. As far as it being outclassed, it plays differently than its Dragon Counterpart Latias anyway. Kingdra has the Water STAB that Latias lacks but uses to hit Steels. Not to mention Kingdra has different swtich ins and no Pursuit weakness.

 

[C_13]

The specs set dont have the potential compared to the dragon dance set

 

[Darkmalice]

The viability of this set is questionable. I agree with RL that it's not entirely outclassed by other Specs users, because it has STAB on two great offensive types that have great synergy together (only walled by Empoleon and Shedninja). And most of the Pokemon that wall Draco Meteor are not good switch ins into Surf. However, the lack of SpA and Speed hurts this sets, and Latias and Mence are usually better Specs users. This set is also not as good as the other sets. Kingdra could have a LO with Draco Meteor and Surf to retain most of the power of this set whilst being able to switch between attacks, and still have physical attacks with which to hit Blissey and other special walls with. Specs is also a bad idea for rain teams (so as to having a greater ability to sweep and to waste less turns of Rain).

Regardless of it's viability, when reading this analysis, I was originally thinking why both Surf and Hydro Pump are on this set. You need to explain why both of these moves are present on the set. For example, you could say why other moves are not feasible e.g. Signal Beam isn't feasible, because Draco Meteor always 2HKOs Celebi after SR damage.

 

[RaikouLover]

However, the lack of SpA and Speed hurts this sets, and Latias and Mence are usually better Specs users. This set is also not as good as the other sets. Kingdra could have a LO with Draco Meteor and Surf to retain most of the power of this set whilst being able to switch between attacks, and still have physical attacks with which to hit Blissey and other special walls with.

Thats debateable, Mence is Stealth Rock weak and Latias is Pursuit weak.. Kingdra is neither. And don't forget that Kingdra's only weakness, Dragon is only carried on other Dragons that can't switch in to 1/2 of the moveset. So the no weaknesses is a big deal here! And it plays much much differently than the other sets. LO sets need Rain Dance to be effective because they lack speed and without Rain its not beating Blissey. But lets be honest, what Choice Specs user beats Blissey anyway as its beside the point. The set works fine, and 400+ Special Attack Draco Meteors and Hydro Pumps hurt either way you put it, especially when you have STAB on both and they are only resisted by Empoleon. The reason for no other moves is excessive prediction and I dont think that needs to be thoroughly explained in set comments because that works much the same as any Choice Set. Why Ice Beam or Signal Beam Celebi when Dragon Pulse carries a good choice to 2HKO w/ SR, and Draco Meteor always does? Not to mention both are STAB and "safe" where the other are set up bait. Why use Hidden Power Electric to OHKO Gyarados when Draco Meteor does with Stealth Rock anyway, and Dragon Pulse and even Hydro Pump will 2HKO offensive varients? I thought all of that is given...

 

[mtr]

Edits in my usual pink.

Pretty good, just fixed up some occasional errors.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Surf
move 4: Dragon Pulse
item: Choice Specs
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Kingdra's Dragon and Water STAB form a nearly perfect combination to make an effective Choice Specs set. Dragon and Water hits everything in OU except Empoleon for neutral damage, so there is no reason to use any other attacks other than STAB moves for this set. The idea is to come in on predicted non-damaging support moves, or Fire and Water attacks, or after a KO (I assume), and unleash pain on your opponent. Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump are good early game moves for tearing holes in the opposing team. Dragon Pulse and Surf make good moves for cleaning up in the lategame, with decent power and perfect accuracy.</p>

<p>With four STAB moves, it is important to know when it is appropriate to use each attack. Both Dragon and Water as types have very strong neutral coverage, hitting most types for consistent damage; (was a run-on before) therefore either STAB is usually a safe option. However, the choice on which move to use depends mainly on what Kingdra switches into. For example, if Kingdra switches in on a Heatran Fire Blast in the early game, Draco Meteor is the best option to use as it will beat Naive Scarftrans whether the switch or not, and will maim the incoming Water resist. If Kingdra switches into a Choice Latias locked into Surf, Hydro Pump becomes a better option to nail the incoming steels. In the mid to late game, Surf and Hydro Pump are generally safer options because most Water-resists are Water-type Pokemon and do not threaten Kingdra directly.</p>

<p>While Draco Meteor is the most powerful move on the set, it comes at the price of harshly lowering the special attack after each use. Therefore, it should be used prudently to prevent the opponent from setting up. Draco Meteor along with with Kingdra's decent Speed and bulk make this set a good revenge killer and pseudo counter (why not just say 'check'?) to certain threats such as Gyarados and Will-O-Wisp or Overheat Rotom-A.</p>

<p>The EVs on the set allow Kingdra to outspeed Adamant Lucario, Jolly Mamoswine and Adamant Gyarados before a Dragon Dance, which gives Kingdra a chance to defeat them before they wreak havoc. It is important to note that the preferred ability on this set is Swift Swim, because a Timid Kingdra with 286 Speed outspeeds everything commonly seen on a Rain Dance team, and other Kingdra almost never run a +Spe nature thanks to Dragon Dance and Rain Dance.</p>

<p> Like any most offensive pokemon, Kingdra will appreciate residual damage to secure more KOs. However, Specs Kingdra is more of a supporter for the team, as it offers a very sturdy resist to Fire and Water attacks and the power to retailiate against many pokemon that carry those moves. Therefore, pairing Kingdra with Pokemon that have weaknesses to these types will allow more opportunties for Kingdra to get in and fire off attacks. One thing to note is that Kingdra is susceptible to Toxic Spikes and neutral to Stealth Rock, so a grounded poison-type or a rapid spinner, such as Forretress, will increase the amount of times Kingdra will enter the field to do damage.</p>

 

[Colonel M]

If people can actually agree with this going in the analysis (Choice Specs), I won't deny the entry. I see the reasons why Joel removed it though, but seeing as we still add random crap like SubReversal Lucario...

If we can reach the concensus that it should be added, by all means.

 

[diinbong]

Well I know this set is good enough to add so I'm supporting it.

 

[Hegna]

I'm not sure why this set was removed. I haven't run it myself, but it has given me trouble often enough, especially under the rain.
I'd like it back too.

Just a few changes:

<p> Like any most offensive Pokemon, Kingdra will appreciate residual damage to secure more KOs. However, Specs Kingdra is more of a supporter for the team, as it offers a very sturdy resist to Fire and Water attacks and the power to retailiate against many Pokemon that carry those moves. Therefore, pairing Kingdra with Pokemon that have weaknesses to these types will allow more opportunties for Kingdra to get in and fire off attacks. One thing to note is that Kingdra is susceptible to Toxic Spikes and neutral to Stealth Rock, so a grounded poison-type or a rapid spinner will increase the amount of times Kingdra will enter the field to do damage.</p>

Pokemon should be capitalized as far as I know, so I switched that since I noticed it wasn't capitalized in a few places. Only one of "any" or "most" should be there (Like any offensive Pokemon... or
Like most offensive Pokemon...)
I think getting rid of any makes more sense, but it's your call.

 

[Fuzznip]

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Surf
move 4: Dragon Pulse
item: Choice Specs
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Kingdra's Dragon- and Water-type STAB attacks form a nearly perfect combination to make an effective Choice Specs set. The Dragon and Water combo hits everything in OU, except Empoleon, for at least neutral damage, so there is not much of a reason to include unSTABed attacks. The idea is to come in on predicted support moves or Fire and Water attacks and unleash pain on your opponent. Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump are good early game moves for tearing wholes in the opposing team. Dragon Pulse and Surf make good moves for cleaning up lategame, as they boast decent power and perfect accuracy.</p>

<p>With four STAB attacks, it is important to know when it is appropriate to use each attack. Both Dragon and Water as types have very good neutral coverage, hitting most types for consistent damage. Therefore, either STAB is usually a safe option; however, the choice of which move to use depends mainly on what Kingdra switches into. For example, if Kingdra switches in on a Heatran's Fire Blast in the early game, Draco Meteor is the best option to use as it will beat Naive ScarfTrans (are you sure?) despite their Dragon-type resistance, and and will maim the incoming Water resist, as the opponent will expect Kingdra to use a Water-type attack. If Kingdra switches into a Choiced Latias locked into Surf, Hydro Pump becomes a better option to nail the incoming Steels that try to take the expected Dragon-type attack. In the mid to late game, Surf and Dragon Pulse are generally safer options, because most Water-resists are Water-type Pokemon and do not threaten Kingdra directly. (I don't really understand that sentence, mind explaining?)</p>

<p>While Draco Meteor is the most powerful move on this set, it comes at the price of harshly lowering Kingdra's Special Attack after each use, forcing Kingdra to switch every time it is used. Therefore, it should be used prudently to prevent the opponent from setting up. Also, Draco Meteor, along with Kindra's decent Speed and bulk, make this set a good revenge killer and psuedo counter to certain threats, such as Gyarados and Will-O-Wisp or Overheat Rotom-A.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set allow Kingdra to outspeed Adamant Lucario, Jolly Mamoswine, and Adamant Gyarados before a Dragon Dance, which gives Kingdra a chance to defeat them before they wreak havoc. It is important to note that the preferred ability on this set is Swift Swim, because a Timid Kingdra with 286 Speed outspeeds everything commonly seen on a Rain Dance team, and other Kingdra almost never run +Spe nature thanks to Dragon Dance and Rain Dance already boosting their Speed.</p>

<p>Like any most offensive Pokemon, Kingdra will appreciate residual damage to secure more KOs. However, Specs Kingdra is more of a supporter for the team, as it offers a very sturdy resistance to Fire and Water attacks and the power to retailiate against many Pokemon that carry those moves. Therefore, pairing Kingdra with Pokemon that have weaknesses to these types will allow more opportunties for Kingdra to get in and fire off attacks. One thing to note is that Kingdra is susceptible to Toxic Spikes and takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock, so a grounded Poison-type or a Rapid Spinner will increase the amount of times Kingdra will enter the field to do damage.</p> (examples include...?)

I like this set a lot.

 

[Colonel M]

If people are wanting this set to return, then I'll do so. 24 Hours.

 

[Colonel M]

Added on-site and moving to archives.