Serve and Volley - Classic Deo-S WobbRay Sun HO (DPP Ubers)
It's been a while since I did an RMT (like nearly 10 years or something?!)
I kind of want to showcase the HO team that I've been tinkering away at for the last 2 years or so after I had that really good run in UPL. Seeing as we have a very celebrated full stall RMT I should do one for full HO too to have a nice little balance. I have pretty much researched the composition and plays of this team further than probably anything I've tinkered with in my entire Pokemon battling career.
The team:
Other main variants:
This team looks really simple and it actually is really simple. The design and teambuilding aspect can be plugged together by someone who's only joined DPP pretty recently if you've played Ubers in other gens. It does however, take quite a lot of practice and intuition to actually use well. I'll try and do my best to paint on how this game is supposed to be played.
So basically - I pasted the Youtube short of Pete Sampras doing serving and smashes to illustrate that this is the mentality that this team needs to be played. While there is nuance for when to back off and save your sweeper for later either to get an important hit off or as fodder later, your main mentality tends to be go for broke rather than slowly grinding someone down.
The cool thing about this team is that the core allows for all sorts of different experimentation. So far these are the most optimised builds but if you want to say, try some other silly sweeper (which I have done to multiple mons) like Linoone or something you can just replace 1 mon (usually the Scizor/Darkrai/Ttar slot) - just be aware the team won't work as well but if you really want to show off and use big Raticate in an individual game this is the team to do it with. Within the slots themselves they're also very customisable - if you want to use DD Ray instead of SD Ray, or CM Recover Mewtwo instead of 4 attacks, Double Dance Don instead of RP+3 it's all perfectly fine, you just need to know what the changes make you stronger and weaker against.
It's important to know the roles of each mon:
Deoxys-S = lead + hazards
Ray + Groudon = sweepers, Ray also doubles as speed and weather control and Groudon as weather control
Mewtwo = speed control + wallbreaker
Wobbuffett = whatever you want it to do, really, in BKC's words, the "ultimate playmaker"
Scizor = Draco switch in + speed control +/- stallbreaker (along with Wobb)
Tyranitar = Draco switch in + Ho-oh check +/- stallbreaker (along with Wobb)
Darkrai = stallbreaker
Personally I think the Scizor variant is currently the best even though most people have been stuck with the Darkrai sample for a couple of years (it's the one in the Sample Teams). It's the best balance of offense/momentum but has enough defensive counterplay to not get out of control too easily. That being said Scizor is probably the most hit and miss Pokemon, you either pilot it like a God and crush your opponent or it just sits there and dies.
The teambuilding process is pretty simple. Basically follow the above "roles" and it's easy to follow after this. It basically starts off with Deo-S/Wobb/Ray/Groudon because those are probably 4 most integral members to this team. Then, you'll find that unfortunately you can't fit anything onto the team, and what is needed is 3 things to fit into 2 mons - stallbreaker, Dragon move switch-in (mostly Draco Meteor) and speed control. I prefer Scizor now the most, mainly because it can contribute to all three of those jobs, despite it not being that good at any of them. Thankfully, that leaves Mewtwo which is just generally all-round threatening. Speed control on the team really a combination of Mewtwo (which speed controls most things and most of all Darkrai) and the 2 priority users. This is probably why you won't see much of Lucario in this RMT or in even the meme variants, it just doesn't offer enough role compression (Dragon switch, stallbreaking, speed control) - only mild speed control applies and even then it's on the weak side.
Anyway onto the team:
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash / Colbur Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Timid
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Extreme Speed / Shadow Ball / Thunder Wave
- Taunt
Behold the most important lead in the metagame. Most people don't respect this any more but like it or not the lead metagame is still built off the foundation of this mon. Anyway, while it looks easy to play there are nuances that you need to take into account when using this.
Colbur Berry is okay if you have a hunch that they're bringing Ttar. Espeed is preferred move now because of its ability to break Sash, but historically Shadow Ball and Twave have both been moves that I've used on this which help out the Deo-S mirror a bit better. Anyway, see below for the lines for all the significant MUs (more details of non-Trick Scarf Deo-S sequencing on Discord):
Groudon @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 72 HP / 8 Def / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
Groudon is probably the scariest sweeper in DPP Ubers currently - it takes very little for this thing to just come out and win. This is standard LO + 3, which I feel is better for this team because the power that LO brings tend to mean a dead Latias/Ogre most of the time.
Speed EVs let you outspeed Adamant Kabutops outside of rain and in rain if you've got an RP up. That being said, if it's raining and you're at +2 I'd still switch Groudon out just in case they have Aqua Jet unless you have no choice. You can add on 40 extra Spe for Kingdra but ew. 72/8 lets you minimise LO damage so there's that. The difference between that and 80 HP straight is pretty negligible most of the time though.
Early game - if you have a relatively riskless situation better to throw out a Fire Punch or Dclaw to see if you catch any Gira-O or Zong/Skarm coming in. Even if you hit Gira-O with Fire Punch that's not bad because after Rocks and Fire Punch damage you're close to OHKOing it next time it comes in if it's fast.
Important interactions:
- Kyogre: If you see Leftovers, assume Twave/CM as the most likely set, max HP/max Def Bold and fast Leftovers are pretty uncommon in current meta. You'll need to get them down to about 60 to OHKO them with EQ, but it would be very unlucky for you to not outspeed the Ogre and kill at that point. If they have no Leftovers assume Choice set - EQ guaranteed OHKO after Rocks/Spikes or 2 Rocks so if can see that their Kyogre is going to be at ~75 when they can come in you can safely RP and kill it
- Giratina-O: Try to work out if they're fat or fast. If they're fat you need to get them down to ~50 to OHKO with Dragon Claw, if they're fast you need to get them to 62 (so basically an extra SR switch-in)
--- Gira-O vs Don + filler slot -> especially if Gira is at like 70% and they're the Gira-O is the only thing stopping a Groudon sweep, usually better to sac something to Draco if your Don is healthy do -2 Draco + -4 Draco can't kill you can easily setup and 2HKO them in return. If they switch out they're taking one more turn of rocks and will likely die to Dclaw
- Lead TTar - they're definitely going to want to trade damage with you as much as possible -> don't bother RP, just kill it, unfortunately it's the best option you have -> they either trade 40% of your health with Payback or Fire Blast or they can get Rocks.
- Lati twins - Latios will die to LO Dragon Claw always. Latias needs Rocks, and maybe sometimes a bit more, depending on how much bulk they run
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Overheat / Outrage / Draco Meteor
Ray is probably the biggest beneficiary to Wobbuffet existing in DPP Ubers, 2nd only to those who find it impossible to set up (eg Linoone, Smeargle and stuff like that). It has 2 excellent setup sweeper sets that are total game-enders when played properly and when assisted with Wobb. This also serves as your secondary weather check (or primary check vs Chlorophyll if you ever run into those) and the main reason why I don't care about Kingdra AS much as I do Kabutops.
Outrage and Draco Meteor are actually not farfetched options in the last slot - provided you're confident in luring in Skarm with Groudon or something. +2 Dragon Claw already does like 60 to Bronzong and Overheat is not OHKOing from full so it's actually reasonable. Outrage/Draco then gives you a guaranteed way to OHKO Gira-O and Kabutops which is honestly sad but you may want to do this. +2 Outrage also damages Cresselia beyond repair and at full you can trade with Lugia with it (you live if no Rocks up). Overheat is still very useful so Forry doesn't get a free spin too though.
The choice between SD and DD are basically interchangeable and both have their advantages and disadvantages. I tend to prefer SD because of the Scarf Darkrai MU and the fact that I hate locking into Outrage, but either or works for this team.
How to pick between SD and DD:
SD:
- Flexibility when attacking -> locking into Outrage is really annoying when you're trying to sweep, and locking into it as a means to kill something means you're very susceptible to being revenge killed
- Can't be revenge killed by Scarf Darkrai -> that thing is an actual menace against this team because as soon as Scizor/Ttar goes down it just clicks Dark Pulse and Ice Beam for free and can't get eliminated by Wobb unless it's locked into Dark Void
- Main con is just how damn weak Dragon Claw is -> you fail to OHKO Giratina-O at max all the time at +0 (basically if there's a Naive 100% Giratina-O it will 1v1 Dclaw Ray every time unless you crit or they miss Draco, and if you run Adamant you're outsped) and can't even OHKO fat Gira-O after Rocks. You also can't kill a healthy Kabutops most of the time with +0 Dragon Claw which is pretty honestly pathetic. I've had times where banking on Stone Edge miss and clicking SD is more likely to win me the game than it is to go for the Dclaw OHKO (for reference it's a 12.5% chance to OHKO a 100% Kabutops with Jolly Dclaw and a 20% for Stone Edge to miss...)
- Also revenged by Scarf Dialga which is super common, that being said it's way easier to trap and kill Scarf Dialga that it is to do the same to Darkrai
DD:
- Outrage can actually kill things - if that Gira-O thinks it can 1v1 you it's in for a well needed reality check
- You now easily beat Scarf Dialga when you have the Speed boost
- As mentioned above, locking into Outrage sucks and Scarf Darkrai is a lot bigger problem when running DD Ray - that being said if it's switched into hazards a couple of times then +1 Espeed might be able to kill it
Key interactions:
- Giratina-O - mainly for SD, as mentioned above, but you CANNOT OHKO a healthy Gira-O with this. You can bluff DD or even mixed but a lot of people tend to run very flimsy Ray checks so they attack me because they have nothing better which is sad af. Not a problem if you're running DD though.
- Kabutops - again for SD as mentioned above
- Bronzong - +2 Dclaw and +1 Outrage do similar amounts -> esp if they're ~50% already, you can kill Zong with +2 Dclaw so you can avoid risking the Overheat miss chance. Even if they're healthy sometimes they might want to pivot to something make you take LO recoil and you just destroy like their Kyogre or Scarf Dialga coming in or something)
- Opposing Ray - always go for the Speed tie if you're healthy unless you know they're Scarf. Espeed does like 40 so you're not OHKOing without a crit and the most common Ray these days is mixed and they don't ALWAYS run max Speed)
- Cresselia - you don't OHKO this and they don't OHKO you if you're healthy. Best just to go for another boost and nuke either it or the thing that they fodder because Cress is more important to defending against this than pretty much everything else
- Scarf Dialga - you may Espeed it at +2 if it's at 31% or below - remember this number
Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunder / Grass Knot / Stone Edge
- Fire Blast / Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam
- Self-Destruct
Mewtwo is very crucial to this team as it's the primary speed control. It's also the team's main weapon against opposing non-CM Recover Mewtwo variants and Ho-oh. It's also an excellent wallbreaker as it's very hard to switch into this with its wide coverage and boom.
In terms of move options, I'm favouring Thunder/Fire Blast/Ice Beam currently (which looks super cheesy and looks like something you'd use in-game) because it strikes the best balance of getting the best coverage and hitting the hardest in both rain and sun. Ideally you have sun up and essentially you have "STAB Fire Blast" but in the rain Thunder is just too broken to pass up. It's also a great move that can hit both Ho-oh and Kyogre, 2 mons that usually give Mewtwo headaches and you're otherwise pretty much forced to blow up on them. Currently, Thunder hits pretty much all the Steels in rain, hits Kyogre and I'd definitely go for it against Ho-oh in neutral weather. Fire Blast in the sun hits Darkrai just as hard as super effective Aura Sphere does so it's a bit redundant, the only thing you're really beating with Aura Sphere is Ttar but we have a Groudon and Scizor for that. Ice Beam rounds out the coverage against all the Dragons in the tier.
In terms of the other options, I think they're fine, just remember you will be walled by certain things in unfavourable weather. While Fire Blast hits Zong in rain okay, Thunder is just way better which is why I don't prefer Grass Knot. Stone Edge is a niche option but if you're feeling that Ho-oh is coming it's a nice way to just kill it and not have to think too much (that being said accuracy sucks but Rock Slide can't OHKO which is sad af). Aura Sphere is also fine if you don't like missing Fire Blast, Thunder still hits Steels okay in the rain but in the sun you'll probably struggle, esp against stuff like Forry that you desperately want to stop spinning.
Key interactions:
- Stalltwo: this thing is basically it for this team - you threaten to blow up on it and hopefully you can get a set up on Ray/Don so you can kill it next time it comes in (or just blow up on it straight up but this is very telegraphed). If it's sunny you can click Fire Blast to do big damage, if it's raining just go for the Thunder para.
- Ho-oh (especially lead), I tend to just trade this vs it but trying to Thunder it for ~70-80% on turn 2 (non-lead Ho-oh is slightly less of an issue because you'd ideally have Rocks up) although if Thunder misses you're in for a real world of hurt which pretty much almost means you're clicking Boom the next turn which is super telegraphed (and burned M2 doesn't even kill so they can just Recover on you)
- Giratina-O if both are healthy I'd pretty much always trade damage onto this - being able to clear the way for Groudon sweep later on is absolutely worth it
- Blissey - do not rush to explode on this, especially if you still have a Wobb/Scizor around. You'll notice the team is mainly physically leaning so they don't really care about Bliss very much. There are situations where you want to do so, but avoid the temptation unless you have to, since there are much more important targets to blow up on (aforementioned Mewtwo, Ho-oh, as well as Kyogre, Lati@s, Palkia).
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack / Superpower
- Pursuit
The lack of respect for Scizor in current metagame is really sad. Out of the offensive Steels, this is probably the best one (that being said none of the offensive Steels are any good so the standard isn't high). To be honest, it's not hard to see why - on paper this thing can't switch into anything without being 2HKOed straight after and that's not a trait that you like for your Draco absorber.
That being said, Scizor fits this team like no other Steel-type could. While on paper it switches into Dragon moves horribly, for a team with pace like this one, it's like the only one that has a hope of sponging a Draco Meteor and then generating momentum instead of losing it. Not only that, it's still able to be used for speed control, and the real bonus is the fact that it can pair with Wobb to Pursuit things. No other Steel-type with the exception of Metagross can do all 3 of those things (and Metagross just does it worse and has a much weaker Pursuit and can't revenge Mewtwo like ever, although it does have Explosion to compensate). While it can't always U-turn for free and it's pretty prediction-reliant, you can always get some benefit from Scizor, even if the worst thing that can come out of it is that you just threw it to be a meatshield. Be very aggressive in playing with this and you'll be rewarded - sometimes the most you can do with it is just let it die to 2 Dracos, and that's actually okay - you've just spared Wobb from taking 50% so it can revenge/Safeguard something else, you've just saved Groudon from taking >70%, you've just saved Mewtwo from getting revenged, etc. Scizor unfortunately is the most expendable Pokemon on this team despite the number of things that it offers and getting the most out of it is a bit of an art-form.
U-turn/BP/Pursuit are pretty self-explanatory. Quick Attack I feel is more useful because it lets you hit a couple more things are pretty important, and I personally hardly ever click Superpower enough to be worth it. Things that Quick Attack can hit:
244+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Quick Attack vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 118-139 (29.1 - 34.3%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Palkia: 119-141 (37 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 118-139 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
As you can see, while none of those hits can actually kill any of those mons, it's enough to deal enough to break Ho-oh and Palkia's Subs, meaning you can shield the more core units from taking free damage.
An option if you're running Superpower is lower the Speed IVs to 30 so you can always outslow a Trick Room Dialga so you can "revenge kill it" in a way. The only way for them to slow creep you is to run a level 99 Dialga, which would be like "come on really?"
Regarding Scizor's EVs, you might think running a fatter Scizor would be better (like 252 HP/56 Atk/200 SpD), however, the extra attack is important for the times in which you still need Scizor's other jobs (Speed control and Pursuit). 16 Spe EVs let you outcreep the base 90s that creep the 250 Speed benchmark if you end up eating a Scarf from lead Deo-S.
In short, Scizor's main missions on this team is (in this order):
1) Shield the rest of the team from Draco/Outrage -> even 1 matters!
2) Speed control
3) Pursuit -> exception to rule is vs Cresselia/Lugia in which every point of damage counts and relatively easy to trap (unless you run into the Shed Shell or Skill Swap Cress/Lugia)
4) U-turn
Key interactions:
- Giratina-O -> pay attention to Gira-O's teammates. If it's run alongside standard rain, HP Fire is less likely so it's pretty simple to just switch into Draco Meteor. If it's on rain, it's pretty easy to just switch into Draco and click Pursuit -> even if they stay in attack you, you've still achieved taking about 40-50% off its health which means it's not a stop to Groudon any more. If it's on sun or any other weather, assume it has HP Fire and just click Bullet Punch, they'll probably stay in to kill you with and again, you've knocked off ~40% of its HP which is invaluable to a Don sweep. If it has Wisp, no worries either, you're still piling on enough damage so Don can sweep later - remember you just need to get it down to ~60 at the most.
- Blissey/Cress/Lugia -> they may decide to spam their healing move vs Wobb to try and stall out Encore turns and then once Encore is over then they can start attacking you (Stoss with Bliss, HP Fire with Cress and Lugia can start setting Reflect or Sub if it has and stuff, or Calm Mind or something). The trick is to go back to Wobb in anticipation of Encore running out. You can probably even do it after Encore runs out because they don't want to switch just in case you still Pursuit them on that turn (but they may). You can then Encore them back into their healing move if that's what they choose to do and then do the same thing again going back to Scizor. Eventually they'll run out of their healing move in which case you've stopped them being able to wall you. If they decide they've had enough and Toxic Wobb or something, then you just go straight back to Scizor and Pursuit them out of their brains (or if they attack you you just kill them with Counter/Coat).
- Lati@s - I'd just click Bullet Punch or U-turn against these - their Dracos do too much for you to even entertain the idea of Pursuit trapping them. They're not as big of obstacles though because once either of Don/Ray get their boost they're gone, and they basically have to trade with Mewtwo anyway. Bullet Punch to deal huge damage to them, and if they want to switch out that's fine U-turn is much better in this scenario to grab the quick momentum, and then you can death fodder Scizor after.
你这猴头死到领头还敢口出狂言? (Wobbuffet) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 196 Def / 252 SpD / 60 Spe ***
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Safeguard
- Mirror Coat
- Counter / Tickle
Don't worry about the nickname... if you get the reference props to you but I thought of it one day and was like lol why not
So Wobb is absolutely the most important thing on this team as you can tell from the rest of the RMT. It's absolutely one of the most overlooked mons in the tier and lowkey one of the most broken. The fact that it doesn't even turn up on some people's tier lists or it turns up in like B tier just boggles my brain. The number of things this thing can do to improve the running of the team is absolutely insane. If you're not aware of what Wobbuffet does, BKC has made a half an hour video on what it does here:
. If you want a tl;dr, Wobb is basically that guy that sneaks behind you and put you in a Full Nelson while the rest of the team dogpiles. So instead of gushing about how good Wobb is, it's probably just best I outline how you use Wobb against basically every threat in the game for this team:
In terms of EVs, I've revealed lots of secrets and lines in this RMT already, I'm not revealing the exact numbers for my Wobbs. I'm sorry but it's too key of a strat to get busted. In short, 60 Spe is minimum required to outspeed min Speed Forretress and you can take it from there. If people permanently creep their Forrys past Wobb then sure I guess but that's a pretty big win for me if that happens anyway.
In terms of moves - Wobb only has 8 moves so they're all pretty self-explanatory. That being said, I can't remember the last time I've actually used Counter to trap a ScarfChomp so I guess Tickle is not a bad option to help you Pursuit the shit out of Blissey/Lugia/Cress a bit better? That being said I do remember needing to use Counter to kill a Scarf Dialga recently so it's not totally droppable.
Now in terms of other members that may replace Scizor:
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Low Kick / Fire Blast
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
ScarfTar fills a very similar role to Scizor. Its mission is basically the same, really, mainly in the order listed:
1) Shield the rest of the team from Draco/Outrage
2) Pursuit
(unless you run into the Shed Shell or Skill Swap Cress/Lugia)
4) U-turn 3) Defeat Ho-oh
4) Speed control 4) Small weather control maybe??!
As you can see, Speed control isn't as strong with this variation esp the DD Ray and Darkrai MU and you don't get U-turn, but the main attraction of this variation is undoubtably the defense against Ho-oh which otherwise is an absolute menace to this team. With Scarftar, you automatically threaten out Ho-oh and force it to take Rocks damage. It's also a better Pursuit user than Scizor is because you outspeed the main Draco Meteor users that you want to eliminate for the rest of the team (eg Giratina-O, Lati@s) so you're guaranteed to at least get the min 40 BP chip on them no matter what they do. It's also a better switch into Scarf Deo-S since if you catch them Tricking you (which is the main line against standard Deo-S) you can just delete them straight up with no detriment to yourself (whereas Scizor would have to take a hit to its power output). It's also even more of a threat vs Cress and Lugia, since you're cancelling out their Leftovers and cutting Moonlight recovery for Cress. It's also a slightly better Scarf Darkrai check because they do like nothing (even less than vs Scizor) while you can Pursuit them for free. That being said, you are much weaker vs regular boosting Darkrai because they outspeed you and kill you with Focus Blast. This is also much weaker vs DD Ray because of the lack of strong Bullet Punch to minimise its damage, and if they come in on Pursuit it's very difficult to come back from (that being said if you're Pursuiting a Latias or something there's no way they'd go to DD Ray on that, and in DPP you can't pick your mon to send in AFTER Pursuit has already killed something).
Low Kick is filler tbh -> you can replace with Fire Blast especially against Ho-oh leads they might switch out and you catch their Forry switch-in.
Darkrai @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Void
I've kind of steered away from this variant mainly because it doesn't have the defensive Draco switch-in like the Scizor and Scarftar variants. Also, Darkrai isn't as good at Pursuiting and therefore taking down stall is a bit harder with this - you'd have to play perfectly around Blissey to be able to beat it because you need to sleep them at the right time and only Blissey. That being said, if your opponent is not a big stall player then it's still a perfectly usable mon.
Importables:
- Scizor variant: https://pokepast.es/f0b0d6d46f305501
- Scarftar variant: https://pokepast.es/425fb238cd4c5e78
- Darkrai variant: https://pokepast.es/e819d1d5ceb2b36d
Threat list:
1) Kyogre
- Lead - see Deo-S interactions
- Choice - if they lead with it then do the Don -> Wobb switcheroo; usually if they're Choiced then Groudon can OHKO after 2 hazards so go on the offensive and RP up once you have 2 hazards worth of damage on it; if you really have to you can always sac Don and trap with Wobb if you don't need Don any more
- Twave +/- CM - fortunately all of my mons can all threaten this easily. If it's still really healthy and comes in on Groudon or Scizor then it's a pain however it's not terribly difficult to land hazard damage on this; Scizor should ALWAYS be your first sac after Deo-S
- Unless Ogre is Choiced, your main play vs Kyogre with Wobb should always be to Encore
2) Dialga - Only really a threat to Mewtwo or Ray if it's Scarf, for which you should be totally be willing to sac so you can trap with Wobb. Other variants aren't a problem because everything can pile on the damage to it; even if it comes in on unboosted Ray you should just attack it.
3) Groudon - Going to your own Groudon is generally the way to go; you can usually always survive at least 1 attack from anything that opposing Groudons do. If they don't have RP up, Mewtwo can usually do a billion to these too. They really shouldn't get to the point of having +2/+2 unless you let them which you shouldn't be doing. Against support ones just trade damage with your own Don.
4) Gira-O - see individual mons, I think I have a Gira-O interaction play by play for pretty much every mon LOL (but yes, this is probably the most important interaction of them all)
5) Deo-S - see Deo-S entry for Deo-S vs Deo-S sequencing
6) Mewtwo
- Standard CM/Recover M2 is okay if Wobb and/or Scizor are alive/healthy, you can always Encore it or U-turn on it
- Stalltwo is the bane of this team. Darkrai variant probably fares the best against it, but mainly the play would be if it's raining, spam Thunder against it with Mewtwo and get it paralysed, if it's sunny, try to kill it with Fire Blast or catch it with boom but there are like no Wisp switch-ins apart from Wobb which gets Taunted
7) Darkrai - Mewtwo can revenge, otherwise you have 2 big hitting priority users at the very least to stop it sweeping; difficult to not lose something to this though
9) Bronzong
- Try to have sun up as much as possible
- Otherwise lure it in with Ray and get huge damage onto it with Overheat; remember +2 Dragon Claw or +1 Outrage does like 60-70 so worst case you can just try brute force through it
- Going to Wobb can never be wrong (unless you think they're going to Explode), Encoring them into anything like Rocks will net you a free set up forever
10) Wobb - no-one can use this properly anyway but you can't really do much against this apart from not let it in too many times; do NOT give it free turns -> I'd rather lock into Dragon Claw than EQ if there's a potential DD Ray or something at the back
11) Lati@s - the reason Scizor/Scarftar exists is for this; again, you don't have to actually kill them, just enough so they can Draco into something for you to pull the momentum back - otherwise all 3 of Ray/Don/Mewtwo can kill these if you've boosted
12) Forry - main reason I have Fire moves on everything is for this; if it comes in vs any of the attackers (not named Scizor) then click your Fire move. If it's lead see the Deo-S sequencing
13) Blissey - by itself is not a problem but Bliss is usually paired with things like Cresselia and Lugia which are all very annoying; if you can Pursuit it then great, if not then 3/4 main attackers on standard build snacks on Bliss anyways
14) Palkia - can be annoying however it usually can't get past Wobb in the sun, even if it clicks like Outrage it can't 2HKO so you can always just Encore it
15) Ttar - Groudon is a pretty sure fire counter to this in general, for leads see the Deo-S vs TTar MU
16) Ho-oh - probably one of the most annoying MUs for this team
- Lead - see Deo-S MUs, but mainly get Rocks up and force it out, then it becomes much easier to deal with; CB is probably the easiest to deal with and easiest to predict, while Lum is just annoying
- Back - thankfully, most people don't have the finesse to wield this properly (although this is starting to change), but you need to keep Rocks up at all costs. Trading Ray and Mewtwo is potentially worth seeing as Groudon threatens most of the rest of Ho-oh balance teams most of the time
17) Chomp - mostly pretty easily to deal with, if Scarfed is easy pickings for Wobb, if no Scarf, Mewtwo easily picks off, if SubSalac there are multiple priority mons to take it out
18) Qwilfish - Keeping sun up is most important, it will generally have to pick between setting up hazard or click an attack
19) Kabu - Groudon feasts on this, Ray can pick off weakened ones if need be
20) Mew
- Lead -> see Deo-S sequencing
- BP -> see BP section for team archetypes below
- (Yes I'm aware SD Mew is a thing and it's actually annoying but Scizor and Wobb are best checks)
21) Gira-A -> Wobb helps protect you against status; CM variants can't snowball fast enough in general unless you let Tspikes up
22) Cress -> Wobb and Pursuit
23) Jirachi -> Groudon, the only thing you need to watch out for is Body Slam variants (and just getting cheesed by Hail Mary Scarf Iron Heads), vs fat sets I'd probably be bit more proactive in attacking unless landing that Rock Polish instantly wins you the game. Fire Punch is also a decent middle ground against fat sets because getting some chip on Gira-O is nice.
24) Lugia -> again, very annoying, the only real way of dealing with it is Wobb + Pursuit it or use Darkrai; CM Lugia as shitty as it is is REALLY bad for this team because it hits like everything and you REALLY need to stop it with Wobb otherwise
25) Skarm -> every mon has a Fire move
26) Tentacruel -> see Deo-S lead sequence; back Tentacruel is pretty rare
27) Froslass -> see Deo-S lead sequence
28) Deo-A -> see Deo-S lead sequence; back Deo-As are rare, but there are 2 strong priority users so it's not a problem
29) Hariyama -> see Deo-S lead sequence
30) Heatran -> the standard Overheat Ray/no Aura Sphere Mewtwo setup finds this surprisingly annoying but position Groudon in for EQ, worst comes to worst +2 Dclaw actually does quite a lot to this
31) Skymin - multiple priority mons, Mewtwo
32) Scizor - Groudon destroys this, otherwise don't let it set up, every mon has a Fire move anyways
33) Kingdra - Ray revenges this easily, keeping sun up is most important
34) Lucario - hard for this to set up anyway, everything has a Fire move, not a problem
35) Ludicolo - keep sun up, Fire Punch/Dclaw/Fire Blast hits this pretty hard
36) Manaphy - keep sun up, otherwise Mewtwo does pretty vs this
37) Gliscor - rare... Mewtwo threatens this super hard, Ray doesn't care too much about him
38) Victreebel - Ray
39) Clefable - dies to like... everything?
40) Quagsire - dies to most things on the team
41) Magnezone - can trap Scizor if locked into Bullet Punch/Pursuit/Quick Attack, but as mentioned previously, Scizor is the one to take the beatings while the rest of the team gets off so yea
42) Infernape - Ray does well vs this, otherwise still have multiple priority mons, it takes like 100% damage from residual damage per turn anyways
43) Omastar - keep sun up, otherwise not a problem
44) Shiftry - Ray/Scizor
45) Dugtrio - the only thing this can trap potentially is Scarftar, but like Scizor, that's generally the first thing to go so whatever
46) Cloyster - see Deo-S vs Cloyster sequencing
47) Metagross - I've begun to respect this a bit more (see a potential expose on my blog), but not with this team. This team destroys Metagross, although Scarf Meta can revenge Ray or Darkrai potentially
48) Deo-D - I think I've only seen this on that Chinese Weatherless HO team, which is almost like this team but slower in setting up hazards... I'm much more scared of the lead Ho-oh than the Deo-D...
49) Salamence - only thing this is on are opposing Wobbray teams; the main thing is to get the initiative up, you still have 2 hard hitting priority users to cushion yourself with if required
50) Celebi - doesn't exist (yet, even though it probably should at some point)
51) Heracross - doesn't exist
52) Machamp - doesn't exist yet
Team/archetype list:
1a) Eclipse:
- If they lead Forretress the main gameplan is to stop them setting up Toxic Spikes with Taunt, and then remove it with Wobbuffet
- Without hazards, their ability to limit your freedom is much less. That being said, if you can't break through their walls it's not going to work
- The way of picking off Cress is to use a combination of Wobbuffet and Scizor/TTar if you can; if you have the Darkrai variant then you need to play really well and save your sleep onto Blissey as much as possible and boost up when she's sleeping
- Once Cress falls it's much easier -> SD Ray pretty much solos unless they have Scarf Dialga, in which case you try and bait it in with like Mewtwo and stuff and remove with Wobb.
- If they are Deo-A/Deo-S/Don lead variants it's not too bad because they probably don't have a spinner so you can pile on the hazards easily with Deo-S to begin with
1b) Lugia sun stall - has been a slightly more common occurrence lately and I think it's actually an evolution from Eclipse in the most recent years; it's harder to break this mainly because Lugia is harder to break than Cress -> main weapon is still Wobb + Pursuit, however if they have Shed Shell you'll be in for a real tough time. Scarftar, DD Ray and Darkrai variants do better, if you have Scizor I'd just spam Pursuit to get decent chip on it and force it out with Mewtwo, then hopefully with Rocks and previous chip you can take it down after.
2) Highlord 6/rain BO:
- If they're Kyogre lead it's pretty easy - set up 2 layers, go to Don, then immediately to Wobbuffet; obviously if you've done this strategy a lot it's time to mix things up a bit
- If they're Deo-S lead then follow the lead guide above
- The key is mainly to chip down Giratina-O -> once that's down the amount of times Kyogre can switch in a get rain back is limited because Groudon pressures them really hard otherwise
3) Baton Pass (Mew):
- Deo-S leads with Fling or TrickScarf with Rocks instead of Spikes tend to give this away a bit
- Preserve Wobb
- Once you see the Dual Screens Mewtwo it's pretty much announced though but they can potentially still be pure Dual Screens HO
- Try to sac something easily to the Mewtwo boom and then bring in your own Mewtwo -> try to have sun up and Fire Blast the Mew and then boom as they get +2 Speed, they're pretty much always forced to BP early to Dialga, and that's usually a pretty easy kill with Wobb. Ray outspeeds +0 Mew as well so you can try to position yourself and just click DD if you have it, or position Groudon in on +0 Mew and Rock Polish up and just click EQ, even under Screens that Dialga will take a ton. Worst case scenario if you Dialga gets to +2/+2 you can still tank with Wobb and Mirror Coat it (assuming you haven't taken too much hazard damage)
4) Ho-oh Balance
- Hate playing against these, however not everyone has the finesse to really bring out the best in Ho-oh anyway so lucky
- Lead Ho-ohs have a big target on them - set up rocks and scout their set -> if CB they bring Deo-S to Sash otherwise they don't. If they're CB then go to M2 and click Thunder, or if you have TTar threaten to Stone Edge them, they might want to preserve; if they're Sub or Berry you may need to trade Mewtwo and/or Ray to it which is very annoying
- Back Ho-ohs are a bit more annoying but if you can keep hazards on is much easier
- These will tend to have Forry/Groudon/rain switch-in/Gira-O/filler, if you can keep Ho-oh low then Groudon is probably the best against these teams
5) Other Sun Balance (eg with Heatran)
- Again, Groudon is probably the best path to victory unless they also have Lugia, in which case you'd have to Wobb/Pursuit them or overload them with Ray
6) Sand/Rain BO +/- Trick Room
- These structures tend to have TTar lead/Ogre/Zong/Gira-O +/- a few others -> need to pressure the Zong early and if you can get rid of that they start folding to M2/Ray.
- If they get a Trick Room off don't panic -> the worst you can do is Encore them into something with Wobb which lets you react a bit easier. You also still have priority and Scizor.
- If you're really scared of these teams you can dump the Speed EVs on Scizor and run 30 Spe IVs and run Superpower on it, that way you always outslow min Speed Dialga and Kyogre (you speed tie otherwise), and those are like the only things that Scizor can't Bullet Punch for good damage anyway.
7) Slow rain (eg stuff with like Ludicolo and stuff)
- Keep sun up and pressure, again Groudon is usually the path to victory. Wobb the slow passive mons, keep hazards up, etc
8) Tspikes Balance (eg Tentacruel lead stuff)
- Try and prevent Tspikes as much as possible. Most of these teams would lead with their Tspikes user - if it's Tentacruel see the Deo-S vs Tentacruel interaction, if it's Forry lead, see the Deo-S vs Forry interaction
- Not much you can do about back Tspikes although they're pretty rare. The only one you might see is like back Forry but by the time that comes you you should have momentum up already and every mon on the team has a way to deal with it
- Groudon is usually the key to winning against these teams, same principle as HL6 and other rain BOs - weaken the Gira-O and most of the time you can win without too much hassle
9) Skarmbliss balance
- Fortunately this team actually does okay vs Skarmbliss since all 3 sweepers can hit both Skarm and Bliss.
- It starts getting annoying when they pair with stuff like Lugia - try to chip down as much with Wobb and Pursuit.
10) Other sun HO (including Wobbray mirrors) - can be hard to go against especially if you lost the Deo-S speed tie -> Wobb is your key to slow the tempo down to try and get it back on your own terms
Other versions of the team and other interesting experimental ideas:
=> works well, shuffles lead order a bit in order to punish Ttar leads, a bit worse off against shit like Forry and Tentacruel (can also use Scarf and Zen Headbutt to beat Tentacruel leads but not Forry)
=> Scarf Darkrai is not bad as a lead to circumvent the Deo-S mirror although given popularity of Scarf Deo-S I'm not a huge fan of this set up atm -> it's still better against Stalltwo but worse against lead Ho-oh by far
=> Standard Lucario build, I noted why I don't like this as much in general, but against balance and offense it works okay, against stall, not so much
=> works well, a bit slower and a bit more Stall prone, your best weapon against those is the SD Groudon
=> standard Salaquaza, even more susceptible to getting Lugiaed than the rest but I think this is the best setup I have for using Mence; can still Pursuit chip Lugia with Scizor
=> Shrang? Using an Ogre lead? Oh wait it was Wobbray all along? Always has been
=> A bit like the Ogre/Meta lead to just click buttons with Ho-oh and then play like classic Wobbray, however Ho-oh is not the most flexible mon, I should try with the Passho set at some point though
Memes:
=> pretty crappy but fun
=> lol, idea is to just set up Trick Room, try to kill a thing or two with Ramp and set up Rocks on the turn you die then play it like classic Wobbray
=> fun Linoone set, problem with Linoone is less its ability to sweep (actually really good in a vacuum) but more its lack of defensive utility usually, if its base Attack was better it would be great
=> Raticate is too funny to leave out of this
=> more evil
=> basically like the Smeargle variant but more fun; even though Starf Berry is random any boost is useful to the rest of the sweepers -> SpD is great for Don because Gira-O can't kill it now, Atk is great for both Don and Ray, Spe is great for Ray and M2, SpA is obviously great for M2 and Def is good for all three of them, in particular M2 though
=> similar idea to the Ogre lead Deo-S version but just a bit worse but style points for using Omastar
Farceus:
In terms of Farceus, I think it's just best to replace Ray/Mewtwo/Scizor. I find Darkrai more important for these structures because Ghostceus is a real pain and defensive mons like Lugia and stuff are just more annoying in general. That being said I find Mag/Ekiller/Ray easier to use in Farceus for the time being.
Another option is to run SD Ghostceus instead, in which you can then use Ray again because you'd have a Fightceus check in Ghostceus.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-636893
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-669884
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-746053
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-703452
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-772577
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-782923
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-823936
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-748011 (Metagross lead)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-809447 (Metagross lead)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-821164 (Ho-oh lead, Scarf though)
Anyway that's it folks. Hopefully when people use this in random roomtours or even proper tours people will finally use this properly (I've probably got my hopes up though).
Shoutouts to the currentish DPP Ubers and Farceus community: Highlord Seldanna susciety Mashing rookierobbie OreoSpeedruns Exiline RichardMillePlain Fc JabbaTheGriffin FatFighter2 TyCarter Milkshook Hack Inspirited Lasen Ainzcrad realaccountami? Sheik burstbean London Beats robjr Magician Taka Thor LBN Hiro' OranBerryBlissey10 lolebruh Dry Defender Dave Luigi skimmythegod 64 Squares Piyu Staxi Miraculous Gold Thiago Nunes Tbolt zf Pokemh + many others
Credit to BKC for the Wobb video
Again my OCN peeps, too bad we didn't get to play UWC this year but didn't sound like we had a huge appetite for it anyway aurora Aberforth March Fires TrueNora Drifting Trade Stallion byronthewellwell etern baconeatinassassin MagearnaTheBoss
It's been a while since I did an RMT (like nearly 10 years or something?!)
I kind of want to showcase the HO team that I've been tinkering away at for the last 2 years or so after I had that really good run in UPL. Seeing as we have a very celebrated full stall RMT I should do one for full HO too to have a nice little balance. I have pretty much researched the composition and plays of this team further than probably anything I've tinkered with in my entire Pokemon battling career.
The team:
Other main variants:
This team looks really simple and it actually is really simple. The design and teambuilding aspect can be plugged together by someone who's only joined DPP pretty recently if you've played Ubers in other gens. It does however, take quite a lot of practice and intuition to actually use well. I'll try and do my best to paint on how this game is supposed to be played.
So basically - I pasted the Youtube short of Pete Sampras doing serving and smashes to illustrate that this is the mentality that this team needs to be played. While there is nuance for when to back off and save your sweeper for later either to get an important hit off or as fodder later, your main mentality tends to be go for broke rather than slowly grinding someone down.
The cool thing about this team is that the core allows for all sorts of different experimentation. So far these are the most optimised builds but if you want to say, try some other silly sweeper (which I have done to multiple mons) like Linoone or something you can just replace 1 mon (usually the Scizor/Darkrai/Ttar slot) - just be aware the team won't work as well but if you really want to show off and use big Raticate in an individual game this is the team to do it with. Within the slots themselves they're also very customisable - if you want to use DD Ray instead of SD Ray, or CM Recover Mewtwo instead of 4 attacks, Double Dance Don instead of RP+3 it's all perfectly fine, you just need to know what the changes make you stronger and weaker against.
It's important to know the roles of each mon:
Deoxys-S = lead + hazards
Ray + Groudon = sweepers, Ray also doubles as speed and weather control and Groudon as weather control
Mewtwo = speed control + wallbreaker
Wobbuffett = whatever you want it to do, really, in BKC's words, the "ultimate playmaker"
Scizor = Draco switch in + speed control +/- stallbreaker (along with Wobb)
Tyranitar = Draco switch in + Ho-oh check +/- stallbreaker (along with Wobb)
Darkrai = stallbreaker
Personally I think the Scizor variant is currently the best even though most people have been stuck with the Darkrai sample for a couple of years (it's the one in the Sample Teams). It's the best balance of offense/momentum but has enough defensive counterplay to not get out of control too easily. That being said Scizor is probably the most hit and miss Pokemon, you either pilot it like a God and crush your opponent or it just sits there and dies.
The teambuilding process is pretty simple. Basically follow the above "roles" and it's easy to follow after this. It basically starts off with Deo-S/Wobb/Ray/Groudon because those are probably 4 most integral members to this team. Then, you'll find that unfortunately you can't fit anything onto the team, and what is needed is 3 things to fit into 2 mons - stallbreaker, Dragon move switch-in (mostly Draco Meteor) and speed control. I prefer Scizor now the most, mainly because it can contribute to all three of those jobs, despite it not being that good at any of them. Thankfully, that leaves Mewtwo which is just generally all-round threatening. Speed control on the team really a combination of Mewtwo (which speed controls most things and most of all Darkrai) and the 2 priority users. This is probably why you won't see much of Lucario in this RMT or in even the meme variants, it just doesn't offer enough role compression (Dragon switch, stallbreaking, speed control) - only mild speed control applies and even then it's on the weak side.
Anyway onto the team:
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash / Colbur Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Timid
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Extreme Speed / Shadow Ball / Thunder Wave
- Taunt
Behold the most important lead in the metagame. Most people don't respect this any more but like it or not the lead metagame is still built off the foundation of this mon. Anyway, while it looks easy to play there are nuances that you need to take into account when using this.
Colbur Berry is okay if you have a hunch that they're bringing Ttar. Espeed is preferred move now because of its ability to break Sash, but historically Shadow Ball and Twave have both been moves that I've used on this which help out the Deo-S mirror a bit better. Anyway, see below for the lines for all the significant MUs (more details of non-Trick Scarf Deo-S sequencing on Discord):
- Vs opposing Deo-S: Need to watch Pressure tie
--- If win Pressure tie: You either outspeed or speed tie -> go for Taunt speed tie
--- If lose Pressure tie: You either speed tie or they're Scarf, therefore if you're Scizor or Ttar variant go to them to absorb Trick, if they Taunted there they it's basically just lead Deo-S vs Scizor/TTar lead which isn't bad
------ If you caught Trick with Scizor then click U-turn
------ If you caught Trick with TTar then just click Pursuit
------ If you're Darkrai variant then you can use Sball or Twave, otherwise just Taunt so you both have no progress on turn 1 (you're disadvantaged though)
- Vs Deo-A:
--- If you have Espeed -> click hazard then Espeed
--- If you don't have Espeed and you're Darkrai variant -> Twave and see if they full para for you to sneak in a layer then go to Ray, if Sball then click Sball then click Rocks, they might try to catch you switching out to get a layer
- Vs Kyogre: Hazards until you die, really; if they Twave you turn 1 you can consider Taunt to shut down CM attempts
--- After you get your hazards up, go to Groudon first, then go to Wobbuffet unless they're Twave CM and they've gotten like a CM up already (in which case go Mewtwo and threaten to blow up on it). If they're Choiced then you just trap and kill their Ogre for free, if they're not then they'd probably Twave or CM to avoid getting Encored and killed, in which case you can go back to Groudon and throw out a Dclaw or something
- TTar: just click hazard(s) and die, then go to Groudon
--- Different approach is potentially avoiding the TTar MU altogether and going to something like Groudon to threaten TTar out and come back with Deo-S later
- Ray: Safe is just take the Draco and die with 1 hazard, if you have Espeed can break the Ray's Sash
- Ho-oh: Click hazards, twice if you're lucky and don't get burned; calc the damage, if Sacred Fire hits you down to Sash then it's CB and you can consider just trapping it with Wobb and getting rid of it afterward because it's such a pain; they might bring in Forry after to get rid of Deo's hazards, but sacking hazards and Wobb to get rid of Ho-oh is absolutely fine especially when you consider how many Ho-oh teams are structured
- Darkrai: Click hazards, if you have Twave, can consider clicking this but you really don't know if they're Scarf or not so better to just click hazards
- Hariyama: Click hazards unless you have Espeed; if you do click Espeed on Fake Out to get some extra chip on the Yama before you go down with the 1 layer of hazard
- Froslass: You can actually Taunt these now because they can't actually 2HKO you with either Sball -> Shard or Icy Wind -> Sball, so you can Taunt then get a layer
- Forretress: Taunt turn 1 to stop any attempts at Tspikes, then go to Wobb, unless they're expecting you to use this team they'd click Spin to deny you hazards, and if you've crept your Wobb then you can just lock them into Rapid Spin and kill them (won't work if they're Leftovers but Lefties Forry lead is uncommon). If they are Leftovers, at least Encore them in once to see if you truly outspeed them or not, Counter them for damage until Encore runs out, then lock them back in then go to something to set up
- Tentacruel: Taunt turn 1 to stop Tspikes, then go to Wobb and Encore them; if they get Encored into spin then go to Scizor/TTar to Pursuit it, if you don't have those then just go to Don and throw out a Dclaw or something
- Skymin: If you have Twave go for it otherwise just click hazards as RNG allows
- Mew: Hazards
- Gira-O: Click a layer of hazards and then die, although if you're brave and you have Scarf Tar or Darkrai you can go immediately to them on the Sneak and pressure them straight away
- Dialga: Click hazards
- Cloyster: better to just set up a layer and die, although this MU is annoying, Taunting is bad because you risk not getting anything up but Tspikes is annoying... that being said Cloyster teams suck so you can take solace in that
--- If win Pressure tie: You either outspeed or speed tie -> go for Taunt speed tie
--- If lose Pressure tie: You either speed tie or they're Scarf, therefore if you're Scizor or Ttar variant go to them to absorb Trick, if they Taunted there they it's basically just lead Deo-S vs Scizor/TTar lead which isn't bad
------ If you caught Trick with Scizor then click U-turn
------ If you caught Trick with TTar then just click Pursuit
------ If you're Darkrai variant then you can use Sball or Twave, otherwise just Taunt so you both have no progress on turn 1 (you're disadvantaged though)
- Vs Deo-A:
--- If you have Espeed -> click hazard then Espeed
--- If you don't have Espeed and you're Darkrai variant -> Twave and see if they full para for you to sneak in a layer then go to Ray, if Sball then click Sball then click Rocks, they might try to catch you switching out to get a layer
- Vs Kyogre: Hazards until you die, really; if they Twave you turn 1 you can consider Taunt to shut down CM attempts
--- After you get your hazards up, go to Groudon first, then go to Wobbuffet unless they're Twave CM and they've gotten like a CM up already (in which case go Mewtwo and threaten to blow up on it). If they're Choiced then you just trap and kill their Ogre for free, if they're not then they'd probably Twave or CM to avoid getting Encored and killed, in which case you can go back to Groudon and throw out a Dclaw or something
- TTar: just click hazard(s) and die, then go to Groudon
--- Different approach is potentially avoiding the TTar MU altogether and going to something like Groudon to threaten TTar out and come back with Deo-S later
- Ray: Safe is just take the Draco and die with 1 hazard, if you have Espeed can break the Ray's Sash
- Ho-oh: Click hazards, twice if you're lucky and don't get burned; calc the damage, if Sacred Fire hits you down to Sash then it's CB and you can consider just trapping it with Wobb and getting rid of it afterward because it's such a pain; they might bring in Forry after to get rid of Deo's hazards, but sacking hazards and Wobb to get rid of Ho-oh is absolutely fine especially when you consider how many Ho-oh teams are structured
- Darkrai: Click hazards, if you have Twave, can consider clicking this but you really don't know if they're Scarf or not so better to just click hazards
- Hariyama: Click hazards unless you have Espeed; if you do click Espeed on Fake Out to get some extra chip on the Yama before you go down with the 1 layer of hazard
- Froslass: You can actually Taunt these now because they can't actually 2HKO you with either Sball -> Shard or Icy Wind -> Sball, so you can Taunt then get a layer
- Forretress: Taunt turn 1 to stop any attempts at Tspikes, then go to Wobb, unless they're expecting you to use this team they'd click Spin to deny you hazards, and if you've crept your Wobb then you can just lock them into Rapid Spin and kill them (won't work if they're Leftovers but Lefties Forry lead is uncommon). If they are Leftovers, at least Encore them in once to see if you truly outspeed them or not, Counter them for damage until Encore runs out, then lock them back in then go to something to set up
- Tentacruel: Taunt turn 1 to stop Tspikes, then go to Wobb and Encore them; if they get Encored into spin then go to Scizor/TTar to Pursuit it, if you don't have those then just go to Don and throw out a Dclaw or something
- Skymin: If you have Twave go for it otherwise just click hazards as RNG allows
- Mew: Hazards
- Gira-O: Click a layer of hazards and then die, although if you're brave and you have Scarf Tar or Darkrai you can go immediately to them on the Sneak and pressure them straight away
- Dialga: Click hazards
- Cloyster: better to just set up a layer and die, although this MU is annoying, Taunting is bad because you risk not getting anything up but Tspikes is annoying... that being said Cloyster teams suck so you can take solace in that
Groudon @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 72 HP / 8 Def / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
Groudon is probably the scariest sweeper in DPP Ubers currently - it takes very little for this thing to just come out and win. This is standard LO + 3, which I feel is better for this team because the power that LO brings tend to mean a dead Latias/Ogre most of the time.
Speed EVs let you outspeed Adamant Kabutops outside of rain and in rain if you've got an RP up. That being said, if it's raining and you're at +2 I'd still switch Groudon out just in case they have Aqua Jet unless you have no choice. You can add on 40 extra Spe for Kingdra but ew. 72/8 lets you minimise LO damage so there's that. The difference between that and 80 HP straight is pretty negligible most of the time though.
Early game - if you have a relatively riskless situation better to throw out a Fire Punch or Dclaw to see if you catch any Gira-O or Zong/Skarm coming in. Even if you hit Gira-O with Fire Punch that's not bad because after Rocks and Fire Punch damage you're close to OHKOing it next time it comes in if it's fast.
Important interactions:
- Kyogre: If you see Leftovers, assume Twave/CM as the most likely set, max HP/max Def Bold and fast Leftovers are pretty uncommon in current meta. You'll need to get them down to about 60 to OHKO them with EQ, but it would be very unlucky for you to not outspeed the Ogre and kill at that point. If they have no Leftovers assume Choice set - EQ guaranteed OHKO after Rocks/Spikes or 2 Rocks so if can see that their Kyogre is going to be at ~75 when they can come in you can safely RP and kill it
- Giratina-O: Try to work out if they're fat or fast. If they're fat you need to get them down to ~50 to OHKO with Dragon Claw, if they're fast you need to get them to 62 (so basically an extra SR switch-in)
--- Gira-O vs Don + filler slot -> especially if Gira is at like 70% and they're the Gira-O is the only thing stopping a Groudon sweep, usually better to sac something to Draco if your Don is healthy do -2 Draco + -4 Draco can't kill you can easily setup and 2HKO them in return. If they switch out they're taking one more turn of rocks and will likely die to Dclaw
- Lead TTar - they're definitely going to want to trade damage with you as much as possible -> don't bother RP, just kill it, unfortunately it's the best option you have -> they either trade 40% of your health with Payback or Fire Blast or they can get Rocks.
- Lati twins - Latios will die to LO Dragon Claw always. Latias needs Rocks, and maybe sometimes a bit more, depending on how much bulk they run
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Overheat / Outrage / Draco Meteor
Ray is probably the biggest beneficiary to Wobbuffet existing in DPP Ubers, 2nd only to those who find it impossible to set up (eg Linoone, Smeargle and stuff like that). It has 2 excellent setup sweeper sets that are total game-enders when played properly and when assisted with Wobb. This also serves as your secondary weather check (or primary check vs Chlorophyll if you ever run into those) and the main reason why I don't care about Kingdra AS much as I do Kabutops.
Outrage and Draco Meteor are actually not farfetched options in the last slot - provided you're confident in luring in Skarm with Groudon or something. +2 Dragon Claw already does like 60 to Bronzong and Overheat is not OHKOing from full so it's actually reasonable. Outrage/Draco then gives you a guaranteed way to OHKO Gira-O and Kabutops which is honestly sad but you may want to do this. +2 Outrage also damages Cresselia beyond repair and at full you can trade with Lugia with it (you live if no Rocks up). Overheat is still very useful so Forry doesn't get a free spin too though.
The choice between SD and DD are basically interchangeable and both have their advantages and disadvantages. I tend to prefer SD because of the Scarf Darkrai MU and the fact that I hate locking into Outrage, but either or works for this team.
How to pick between SD and DD:
SD:
- Flexibility when attacking -> locking into Outrage is really annoying when you're trying to sweep, and locking into it as a means to kill something means you're very susceptible to being revenge killed
- Can't be revenge killed by Scarf Darkrai -> that thing is an actual menace against this team because as soon as Scizor/Ttar goes down it just clicks Dark Pulse and Ice Beam for free and can't get eliminated by Wobb unless it's locked into Dark Void
- Main con is just how damn weak Dragon Claw is -> you fail to OHKO Giratina-O at max all the time at +0 (basically if there's a Naive 100% Giratina-O it will 1v1 Dclaw Ray every time unless you crit or they miss Draco, and if you run Adamant you're outsped) and can't even OHKO fat Gira-O after Rocks. You also can't kill a healthy Kabutops most of the time with +0 Dragon Claw which is pretty honestly pathetic. I've had times where banking on Stone Edge miss and clicking SD is more likely to win me the game than it is to go for the Dclaw OHKO (for reference it's a 12.5% chance to OHKO a 100% Kabutops with Jolly Dclaw and a 20% for Stone Edge to miss...)
- Also revenged by Scarf Dialga which is super common, that being said it's way easier to trap and kill Scarf Dialga that it is to do the same to Darkrai
DD:
- Outrage can actually kill things - if that Gira-O thinks it can 1v1 you it's in for a well needed reality check
- You now easily beat Scarf Dialga when you have the Speed boost
- As mentioned above, locking into Outrage sucks and Scarf Darkrai is a lot bigger problem when running DD Ray - that being said if it's switched into hazards a couple of times then +1 Espeed might be able to kill it
Key interactions:
- Giratina-O - mainly for SD, as mentioned above, but you CANNOT OHKO a healthy Gira-O with this. You can bluff DD or even mixed but a lot of people tend to run very flimsy Ray checks so they attack me because they have nothing better which is sad af. Not a problem if you're running DD though.
- Kabutops - again for SD as mentioned above
- Bronzong - +2 Dclaw and +1 Outrage do similar amounts -> esp if they're ~50% already, you can kill Zong with +2 Dclaw so you can avoid risking the Overheat miss chance. Even if they're healthy sometimes they might want to pivot to something make you take LO recoil and you just destroy like their Kyogre or Scarf Dialga coming in or something)
- Opposing Ray - always go for the Speed tie if you're healthy unless you know they're Scarf. Espeed does like 40 so you're not OHKOing without a crit and the most common Ray these days is mixed and they don't ALWAYS run max Speed)
- Cresselia - you don't OHKO this and they don't OHKO you if you're healthy. Best just to go for another boost and nuke either it or the thing that they fodder because Cress is more important to defending against this than pretty much everything else
- Scarf Dialga - you may Espeed it at +2 if it's at 31% or below - remember this number
Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunder / Grass Knot / Stone Edge
- Fire Blast / Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam
- Self-Destruct
Mewtwo is very crucial to this team as it's the primary speed control. It's also the team's main weapon against opposing non-CM Recover Mewtwo variants and Ho-oh. It's also an excellent wallbreaker as it's very hard to switch into this with its wide coverage and boom.
In terms of move options, I'm favouring Thunder/Fire Blast/Ice Beam currently (which looks super cheesy and looks like something you'd use in-game) because it strikes the best balance of getting the best coverage and hitting the hardest in both rain and sun. Ideally you have sun up and essentially you have "STAB Fire Blast" but in the rain Thunder is just too broken to pass up. It's also a great move that can hit both Ho-oh and Kyogre, 2 mons that usually give Mewtwo headaches and you're otherwise pretty much forced to blow up on them. Currently, Thunder hits pretty much all the Steels in rain, hits Kyogre and I'd definitely go for it against Ho-oh in neutral weather. Fire Blast in the sun hits Darkrai just as hard as super effective Aura Sphere does so it's a bit redundant, the only thing you're really beating with Aura Sphere is Ttar but we have a Groudon and Scizor for that. Ice Beam rounds out the coverage against all the Dragons in the tier.
In terms of the other options, I think they're fine, just remember you will be walled by certain things in unfavourable weather. While Fire Blast hits Zong in rain okay, Thunder is just way better which is why I don't prefer Grass Knot. Stone Edge is a niche option but if you're feeling that Ho-oh is coming it's a nice way to just kill it and not have to think too much (that being said accuracy sucks but Rock Slide can't OHKO which is sad af). Aura Sphere is also fine if you don't like missing Fire Blast, Thunder still hits Steels okay in the rain but in the sun you'll probably struggle, esp against stuff like Forry that you desperately want to stop spinning.
Key interactions:
- Stalltwo: this thing is basically it for this team - you threaten to blow up on it and hopefully you can get a set up on Ray/Don so you can kill it next time it comes in (or just blow up on it straight up but this is very telegraphed). If it's sunny you can click Fire Blast to do big damage, if it's raining just go for the Thunder para.
- Ho-oh (especially lead), I tend to just trade this vs it but trying to Thunder it for ~70-80% on turn 2 (non-lead Ho-oh is slightly less of an issue because you'd ideally have Rocks up) although if Thunder misses you're in for a real world of hurt which pretty much almost means you're clicking Boom the next turn which is super telegraphed (and burned M2 doesn't even kill so they can just Recover on you)
- Giratina-O if both are healthy I'd pretty much always trade damage onto this - being able to clear the way for Groudon sweep later on is absolutely worth it
- Blissey - do not rush to explode on this, especially if you still have a Wobb/Scizor around. You'll notice the team is mainly physically leaning so they don't really care about Bliss very much. There are situations where you want to do so, but avoid the temptation unless you have to, since there are much more important targets to blow up on (aforementioned Mewtwo, Ho-oh, as well as Kyogre, Lati@s, Palkia).
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack / Superpower
- Pursuit
The lack of respect for Scizor in current metagame is really sad. Out of the offensive Steels, this is probably the best one (that being said none of the offensive Steels are any good so the standard isn't high). To be honest, it's not hard to see why - on paper this thing can't switch into anything without being 2HKOed straight after and that's not a trait that you like for your Draco absorber.
That being said, Scizor fits this team like no other Steel-type could. While on paper it switches into Dragon moves horribly, for a team with pace like this one, it's like the only one that has a hope of sponging a Draco Meteor and then generating momentum instead of losing it. Not only that, it's still able to be used for speed control, and the real bonus is the fact that it can pair with Wobb to Pursuit things. No other Steel-type with the exception of Metagross can do all 3 of those things (and Metagross just does it worse and has a much weaker Pursuit and can't revenge Mewtwo like ever, although it does have Explosion to compensate). While it can't always U-turn for free and it's pretty prediction-reliant, you can always get some benefit from Scizor, even if the worst thing that can come out of it is that you just threw it to be a meatshield. Be very aggressive in playing with this and you'll be rewarded - sometimes the most you can do with it is just let it die to 2 Dracos, and that's actually okay - you've just spared Wobb from taking 50% so it can revenge/Safeguard something else, you've just saved Groudon from taking >70%, you've just saved Mewtwo from getting revenged, etc. Scizor unfortunately is the most expendable Pokemon on this team despite the number of things that it offers and getting the most out of it is a bit of an art-form.
U-turn/BP/Pursuit are pretty self-explanatory. Quick Attack I feel is more useful because it lets you hit a couple more things are pretty important, and I personally hardly ever click Superpower enough to be worth it. Things that Quick Attack can hit:
244+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Quick Attack vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 118-139 (29.1 - 34.3%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Palkia: 119-141 (37 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 118-139 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
As you can see, while none of those hits can actually kill any of those mons, it's enough to deal enough to break Ho-oh and Palkia's Subs, meaning you can shield the more core units from taking free damage.
An option if you're running Superpower is lower the Speed IVs to 30 so you can always outslow a Trick Room Dialga so you can "revenge kill it" in a way. The only way for them to slow creep you is to run a level 99 Dialga, which would be like "come on really?"
Regarding Scizor's EVs, you might think running a fatter Scizor would be better (like 252 HP/56 Atk/200 SpD), however, the extra attack is important for the times in which you still need Scizor's other jobs (Speed control and Pursuit). 16 Spe EVs let you outcreep the base 90s that creep the 250 Speed benchmark if you end up eating a Scarf from lead Deo-S.
In short, Scizor's main missions on this team is (in this order):
1) Shield the rest of the team from Draco/Outrage -> even 1 matters!
2) Speed control
3) Pursuit -> exception to rule is vs Cresselia/Lugia in which every point of damage counts and relatively easy to trap (unless you run into the Shed Shell or Skill Swap Cress/Lugia)
4) U-turn
Key interactions:
- Giratina-O -> pay attention to Gira-O's teammates. If it's run alongside standard rain, HP Fire is less likely so it's pretty simple to just switch into Draco Meteor. If it's on rain, it's pretty easy to just switch into Draco and click Pursuit -> even if they stay in attack you, you've still achieved taking about 40-50% off its health which means it's not a stop to Groudon any more. If it's on sun or any other weather, assume it has HP Fire and just click Bullet Punch, they'll probably stay in to kill you with and again, you've knocked off ~40% of its HP which is invaluable to a Don sweep. If it has Wisp, no worries either, you're still piling on enough damage so Don can sweep later - remember you just need to get it down to ~60 at the most.
- Blissey/Cress/Lugia -> they may decide to spam their healing move vs Wobb to try and stall out Encore turns and then once Encore is over then they can start attacking you (Stoss with Bliss, HP Fire with Cress and Lugia can start setting Reflect or Sub if it has and stuff, or Calm Mind or something). The trick is to go back to Wobb in anticipation of Encore running out. You can probably even do it after Encore runs out because they don't want to switch just in case you still Pursuit them on that turn (but they may). You can then Encore them back into their healing move if that's what they choose to do and then do the same thing again going back to Scizor. Eventually they'll run out of their healing move in which case you've stopped them being able to wall you. If they decide they've had enough and Toxic Wobb or something, then you just go straight back to Scizor and Pursuit them out of their brains (or if they attack you you just kill them with Counter/Coat).
- Lati@s - I'd just click Bullet Punch or U-turn against these - their Dracos do too much for you to even entertain the idea of Pursuit trapping them. They're not as big of obstacles though because once either of Don/Ray get their boost they're gone, and they basically have to trade with Mewtwo anyway. Bullet Punch to deal huge damage to them, and if they want to switch out that's fine U-turn is much better in this scenario to grab the quick momentum, and then you can death fodder Scizor after.
你这猴头死到领头还敢口出狂言? (Wobbuffet) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 196 Def / 252 SpD / 60 Spe ***
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Safeguard
- Mirror Coat
- Counter / Tickle
Don't worry about the nickname... if you get the reference props to you but I thought of it one day and was like lol why not
So Wobb is absolutely the most important thing on this team as you can tell from the rest of the RMT. It's absolutely one of the most overlooked mons in the tier and lowkey one of the most broken. The fact that it doesn't even turn up on some people's tier lists or it turns up in like B tier just boggles my brain. The number of things this thing can do to improve the running of the team is absolutely insane. If you're not aware of what Wobbuffet does, BKC has made a half an hour video on what it does here:
1) Kyogre
- Lead - already described as above
- Scarf/Specs - if you're sure you don't need Groudon any more, you can sac Don to this and secure the trap with Wobb to permanently win weather war this way
- T-wave/CM - more annoying esp if they full para you, but if you can easily Encore them into Twave and either go to Don or Safeguard to go to Ray (or even Scizor to trap the thing :O)
2) Dialga
- Fat/Rocks - they basically have to lock themselves into Rocks or something to avoid getting trapped and killed by Wobb so it's free setup fodder, but even then you don't need to do this (Groudon scares this away by itself to set up)
- Scarf - Wobb is made for this
- Specs - Can't directly switch into this but you can get rid of it if it's killed something if you really have to (you don't)
- BU - Encore into BU and go to Groudon, you'll kill it eventually, if they click Outrage then they lock themselves in and you can kill with Don
3) Groudon
- Fat/Rocks - Encore and go accordingly - if they EQ you you can either kill it or go to Ray (not a threat anyway)
- Setup - you can't beat a Don that's already set up but before it does you can do whatever. If it only has RP up you can Encore them into EQ and go to Ray
4) Gira-O
- They tend to Outrage you now with this because you can't hurt them when they're doing that - but you can go to Scizor and Pursuit them though!
- SubCM - if you lock them into CM or Sub you just go to Ray to set up, if you locked them into Dragon Pulse or Shadow Ball go to Scizor for the old Pursuit trade
5) Deo-S - should be gone by the time Wobb comes out, but no you can't beat this
6) Mewtwo - you definitely lose to Stalltwo, but standard CM/Recover you Encore them for days and can act accordingly, all out attacker at best trades with you
7) Darkrai - okay, you legit can't beat this but if you're brave enough and you know your opponent is using ScarfRai (eg you've seen lead Ogre, CB Dialga and Bronzong and you've correctly deduced you're playing against the Exiline sample team) you could even come into Dark Void, stall out the sleep turns, Safeguard up and then use that as setup fodder!!
8) Ray - you're not trapping this unless you both switch in at the same time, in which case you can just click Encore so it doesn't set up on you for free I guess
9) Bronzong - if it just used an attack your opponent can say goodbye to this passive piece of turd because you're just going to Encore it into said attack and kill it. If it just used Rocks that's also fine you can Encore that and go to your next sweeper. If it used Hypnosis and it hit well that's kind of annoying but you can still just wait to wait up Zong isn't doing anything to you in a hurry apart from Exploding.
10) Wobb - no
11) Lati@s - if they clicked Draco already then you can Encore them into something else - if it's an attack they die, if it's Calm Mind or Recover then you can just go to or Don/Ray for a free set up (I wouldn't even go to Scizor because that's just free momentum for your opponent after you kill their Lati@s tbh).
12) Forry - see lead MU, if back Forry, the least thing you can do is Encore them into Spin or hazard and set up on them. If they decided to attack with Payback or something then they die
13) Blissey - see the Scizor entry above, if Scizor is gone you can always just Encore them into a support move, use Safeguard if it's status and then go to Ray/Don
14) Palkia - just click Mirror Coat. They can try Focus Punch shenanigans but that's doing fuck all, they'll eventually go back to using special attacks. If they're Outrage then unless they're using CB or something you can always just click Counter because they can't 2HKO you with that.
15) Ttar - you lose to this, but you have a Groudon
16) Ho-oh - the most you can do is trap a lead CB Ho-oh, thankfully these are pretty uncommon but it's not just Wobb that has problem with this on this team!
17) Chomp - if they reveal to be ScarfChomp then just Counter it, otherwise always safe to Encore
18) Qwilfish - not the mon to try and trap with Wobb
19) Kabu - you have a Don, don't try this with Wobb unless Don is gone I guess (can potentially still trap if locked into Stone Edge or something)
20) Mew - you're losing to this
21) Gira-A - can always Encore this into something, if Wisp then you can go to Scizor to try and chip with Pursuit after you Safeguard; if they're SubCM then just go to Scizor to chip down with Pursuit or go to Ray to try and set up
22) Cress - see above section in Scizor
23) Jirachi - if you bait them into Ice Punch you can kill them but I wouldn't try and trap/eliminate if they have the option of going Iron Head, just go to Scizor and chip down if that's the case
24) Lugia - see above section with Scizor
25) Skarm - you're losing to this if they have Taunt, even if they don't you don't want to Encore them into Spikes anyway
26) Tentacruel - usually just lead - see Deo-S section
27) Froslass - lead, Wobb shouldn't be taking coming into this
28) Deo-A - again, usually a lead and Wobb shouldn't be coming into this
29) Hariyama - you're slower so you can actually just tank a Payback and kill them, I wouldn't bother using Wobb for this though he has bigger fish to fry
30) Heatran - can't trap this with Wobb if they have Taunt and otherwise not fun to face with Wobb, can try to Encore them into Toxic or something so you can set up after Safeguard
31) Skymin - might be able to take this out if they're Scarfed and gets locked into Seed Flare vs Don or something
32) Scizor - not a mon you want to try and trap with Wobb
33) Kingdra - not Wobb's job
34) Lucario - only Encore into SD or something otherwise stay clear
35) Ludicolo - can't beat
Not worth listing the rest tbh
- Lead - already described as above
- Scarf/Specs - if you're sure you don't need Groudon any more, you can sac Don to this and secure the trap with Wobb to permanently win weather war this way
- T-wave/CM - more annoying esp if they full para you, but if you can easily Encore them into Twave and either go to Don or Safeguard to go to Ray (or even Scizor to trap the thing :O)
2) Dialga
- Fat/Rocks - they basically have to lock themselves into Rocks or something to avoid getting trapped and killed by Wobb so it's free setup fodder, but even then you don't need to do this (Groudon scares this away by itself to set up)
- Scarf - Wobb is made for this
- Specs - Can't directly switch into this but you can get rid of it if it's killed something if you really have to (you don't)
- BU - Encore into BU and go to Groudon, you'll kill it eventually, if they click Outrage then they lock themselves in and you can kill with Don
3) Groudon
- Fat/Rocks - Encore and go accordingly - if they EQ you you can either kill it or go to Ray (not a threat anyway)
- Setup - you can't beat a Don that's already set up but before it does you can do whatever. If it only has RP up you can Encore them into EQ and go to Ray
4) Gira-O
- They tend to Outrage you now with this because you can't hurt them when they're doing that - but you can go to Scizor and Pursuit them though!
- SubCM - if you lock them into CM or Sub you just go to Ray to set up, if you locked them into Dragon Pulse or Shadow Ball go to Scizor for the old Pursuit trade
5) Deo-S - should be gone by the time Wobb comes out, but no you can't beat this
6) Mewtwo - you definitely lose to Stalltwo, but standard CM/Recover you Encore them for days and can act accordingly, all out attacker at best trades with you
7) Darkrai - okay, you legit can't beat this but if you're brave enough and you know your opponent is using ScarfRai (eg you've seen lead Ogre, CB Dialga and Bronzong and you've correctly deduced you're playing against the Exiline sample team) you could even come into Dark Void, stall out the sleep turns, Safeguard up and then use that as setup fodder!!
8) Ray - you're not trapping this unless you both switch in at the same time, in which case you can just click Encore so it doesn't set up on you for free I guess
9) Bronzong - if it just used an attack your opponent can say goodbye to this passive piece of turd because you're just going to Encore it into said attack and kill it. If it just used Rocks that's also fine you can Encore that and go to your next sweeper. If it used Hypnosis and it hit well that's kind of annoying but you can still just wait to wait up Zong isn't doing anything to you in a hurry apart from Exploding.
10) Wobb - no
11) Lati@s - if they clicked Draco already then you can Encore them into something else - if it's an attack they die, if it's Calm Mind or Recover then you can just go to or Don/Ray for a free set up (I wouldn't even go to Scizor because that's just free momentum for your opponent after you kill their Lati@s tbh).
12) Forry - see lead MU, if back Forry, the least thing you can do is Encore them into Spin or hazard and set up on them. If they decided to attack with Payback or something then they die
13) Blissey - see the Scizor entry above, if Scizor is gone you can always just Encore them into a support move, use Safeguard if it's status and then go to Ray/Don
14) Palkia - just click Mirror Coat. They can try Focus Punch shenanigans but that's doing fuck all, they'll eventually go back to using special attacks. If they're Outrage then unless they're using CB or something you can always just click Counter because they can't 2HKO you with that.
15) Ttar - you lose to this, but you have a Groudon
16) Ho-oh - the most you can do is trap a lead CB Ho-oh, thankfully these are pretty uncommon but it's not just Wobb that has problem with this on this team!
17) Chomp - if they reveal to be ScarfChomp then just Counter it, otherwise always safe to Encore
18) Qwilfish - not the mon to try and trap with Wobb
19) Kabu - you have a Don, don't try this with Wobb unless Don is gone I guess (can potentially still trap if locked into Stone Edge or something)
20) Mew - you're losing to this
21) Gira-A - can always Encore this into something, if Wisp then you can go to Scizor to try and chip with Pursuit after you Safeguard; if they're SubCM then just go to Scizor to chip down with Pursuit or go to Ray to try and set up
22) Cress - see above section in Scizor
23) Jirachi - if you bait them into Ice Punch you can kill them but I wouldn't try and trap/eliminate if they have the option of going Iron Head, just go to Scizor and chip down if that's the case
24) Lugia - see above section with Scizor
25) Skarm - you're losing to this if they have Taunt, even if they don't you don't want to Encore them into Spikes anyway
26) Tentacruel - usually just lead - see Deo-S section
27) Froslass - lead, Wobb shouldn't be taking coming into this
28) Deo-A - again, usually a lead and Wobb shouldn't be coming into this
29) Hariyama - you're slower so you can actually just tank a Payback and kill them, I wouldn't bother using Wobb for this though he has bigger fish to fry
30) Heatran - can't trap this with Wobb if they have Taunt and otherwise not fun to face with Wobb, can try to Encore them into Toxic or something so you can set up after Safeguard
31) Skymin - might be able to take this out if they're Scarfed and gets locked into Seed Flare vs Don or something
32) Scizor - not a mon you want to try and trap with Wobb
33) Kingdra - not Wobb's job
34) Lucario - only Encore into SD or something otherwise stay clear
35) Ludicolo - can't beat
Not worth listing the rest tbh
In terms of EVs, I've revealed lots of secrets and lines in this RMT already, I'm not revealing the exact numbers for my Wobbs. I'm sorry but it's too key of a strat to get busted. In short, 60 Spe is minimum required to outspeed min Speed Forretress and you can take it from there. If people permanently creep their Forrys past Wobb then sure I guess but that's a pretty big win for me if that happens anyway.
In terms of moves - Wobb only has 8 moves so they're all pretty self-explanatory. That being said, I can't remember the last time I've actually used Counter to trap a ScarfChomp so I guess Tickle is not a bad option to help you Pursuit the shit out of Blissey/Lugia/Cress a bit better? That being said I do remember needing to use Counter to kill a Scarf Dialga recently so it's not totally droppable.
Now in terms of other members that may replace Scizor:
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Low Kick / Fire Blast
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
ScarfTar fills a very similar role to Scizor. Its mission is basically the same, really, mainly in the order listed:
1) Shield the rest of the team from Draco/Outrage
2) Pursuit
(unless you run into the Shed Shell or Skill Swap Cress/Lugia)
As you can see, Speed control isn't as strong with this variation esp the DD Ray and Darkrai MU and you don't get U-turn, but the main attraction of this variation is undoubtably the defense against Ho-oh which otherwise is an absolute menace to this team. With Scarftar, you automatically threaten out Ho-oh and force it to take Rocks damage. It's also a better Pursuit user than Scizor is because you outspeed the main Draco Meteor users that you want to eliminate for the rest of the team (eg Giratina-O, Lati@s) so you're guaranteed to at least get the min 40 BP chip on them no matter what they do. It's also a better switch into Scarf Deo-S since if you catch them Tricking you (which is the main line against standard Deo-S) you can just delete them straight up with no detriment to yourself (whereas Scizor would have to take a hit to its power output). It's also even more of a threat vs Cress and Lugia, since you're cancelling out their Leftovers and cutting Moonlight recovery for Cress. It's also a slightly better Scarf Darkrai check because they do like nothing (even less than vs Scizor) while you can Pursuit them for free. That being said, you are much weaker vs regular boosting Darkrai because they outspeed you and kill you with Focus Blast. This is also much weaker vs DD Ray because of the lack of strong Bullet Punch to minimise its damage, and if they come in on Pursuit it's very difficult to come back from (that being said if you're Pursuiting a Latias or something there's no way they'd go to DD Ray on that, and in DPP you can't pick your mon to send in AFTER Pursuit has already killed something).
Low Kick is filler tbh -> you can replace with Fire Blast especially against Ho-oh leads they might switch out and you catch their Forry switch-in.
Darkrai @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Void
I've kind of steered away from this variant mainly because it doesn't have the defensive Draco switch-in like the Scizor and Scarftar variants. Also, Darkrai isn't as good at Pursuiting and therefore taking down stall is a bit harder with this - you'd have to play perfectly around Blissey to be able to beat it because you need to sleep them at the right time and only Blissey. That being said, if your opponent is not a big stall player then it's still a perfectly usable mon.
Importables:
- Scizor variant: https://pokepast.es/f0b0d6d46f305501
- Scarftar variant: https://pokepast.es/425fb238cd4c5e78
- Darkrai variant: https://pokepast.es/e819d1d5ceb2b36d
Threat list:
1) Kyogre
- Lead - see Deo-S interactions
- Choice - if they lead with it then do the Don -> Wobb switcheroo; usually if they're Choiced then Groudon can OHKO after 2 hazards so go on the offensive and RP up once you have 2 hazards worth of damage on it; if you really have to you can always sac Don and trap with Wobb if you don't need Don any more
- Twave +/- CM - fortunately all of my mons can all threaten this easily. If it's still really healthy and comes in on Groudon or Scizor then it's a pain however it's not terribly difficult to land hazard damage on this; Scizor should ALWAYS be your first sac after Deo-S
- Unless Ogre is Choiced, your main play vs Kyogre with Wobb should always be to Encore
2) Dialga - Only really a threat to Mewtwo or Ray if it's Scarf, for which you should be totally be willing to sac so you can trap with Wobb. Other variants aren't a problem because everything can pile on the damage to it; even if it comes in on unboosted Ray you should just attack it.
3) Groudon - Going to your own Groudon is generally the way to go; you can usually always survive at least 1 attack from anything that opposing Groudons do. If they don't have RP up, Mewtwo can usually do a billion to these too. They really shouldn't get to the point of having +2/+2 unless you let them which you shouldn't be doing. Against support ones just trade damage with your own Don.
4) Gira-O - see individual mons, I think I have a Gira-O interaction play by play for pretty much every mon LOL (but yes, this is probably the most important interaction of them all)
5) Deo-S - see Deo-S entry for Deo-S vs Deo-S sequencing
6) Mewtwo
- Standard CM/Recover M2 is okay if Wobb and/or Scizor are alive/healthy, you can always Encore it or U-turn on it
- Stalltwo is the bane of this team. Darkrai variant probably fares the best against it, but mainly the play would be if it's raining, spam Thunder against it with Mewtwo and get it paralysed, if it's sunny, try to kill it with Fire Blast or catch it with boom but there are like no Wisp switch-ins apart from Wobb which gets Taunted
7) Darkrai - Mewtwo can revenge, otherwise you have 2 big hitting priority users at the very least to stop it sweeping; difficult to not lose something to this though
9) Bronzong
- Try to have sun up as much as possible
- Otherwise lure it in with Ray and get huge damage onto it with Overheat; remember +2 Dragon Claw or +1 Outrage does like 60-70 so worst case you can just try brute force through it
- Going to Wobb can never be wrong (unless you think they're going to Explode), Encoring them into anything like Rocks will net you a free set up forever
10) Wobb - no-one can use this properly anyway but you can't really do much against this apart from not let it in too many times; do NOT give it free turns -> I'd rather lock into Dragon Claw than EQ if there's a potential DD Ray or something at the back
11) Lati@s - the reason Scizor/Scarftar exists is for this; again, you don't have to actually kill them, just enough so they can Draco into something for you to pull the momentum back - otherwise all 3 of Ray/Don/Mewtwo can kill these if you've boosted
12) Forry - main reason I have Fire moves on everything is for this; if it comes in vs any of the attackers (not named Scizor) then click your Fire move. If it's lead see the Deo-S sequencing
13) Blissey - by itself is not a problem but Bliss is usually paired with things like Cresselia and Lugia which are all very annoying; if you can Pursuit it then great, if not then 3/4 main attackers on standard build snacks on Bliss anyways
14) Palkia - can be annoying however it usually can't get past Wobb in the sun, even if it clicks like Outrage it can't 2HKO so you can always just Encore it
15) Ttar - Groudon is a pretty sure fire counter to this in general, for leads see the Deo-S vs TTar MU
16) Ho-oh - probably one of the most annoying MUs for this team
- Lead - see Deo-S MUs, but mainly get Rocks up and force it out, then it becomes much easier to deal with; CB is probably the easiest to deal with and easiest to predict, while Lum is just annoying
- Back - thankfully, most people don't have the finesse to wield this properly (although this is starting to change), but you need to keep Rocks up at all costs. Trading Ray and Mewtwo is potentially worth seeing as Groudon threatens most of the rest of Ho-oh balance teams most of the time
17) Chomp - mostly pretty easily to deal with, if Scarfed is easy pickings for Wobb, if no Scarf, Mewtwo easily picks off, if SubSalac there are multiple priority mons to take it out
18) Qwilfish - Keeping sun up is most important, it will generally have to pick between setting up hazard or click an attack
19) Kabu - Groudon feasts on this, Ray can pick off weakened ones if need be
20) Mew
- Lead -> see Deo-S sequencing
- BP -> see BP section for team archetypes below
- (Yes I'm aware SD Mew is a thing and it's actually annoying but Scizor and Wobb are best checks)
21) Gira-A -> Wobb helps protect you against status; CM variants can't snowball fast enough in general unless you let Tspikes up
22) Cress -> Wobb and Pursuit
23) Jirachi -> Groudon, the only thing you need to watch out for is Body Slam variants (and just getting cheesed by Hail Mary Scarf Iron Heads), vs fat sets I'd probably be bit more proactive in attacking unless landing that Rock Polish instantly wins you the game. Fire Punch is also a decent middle ground against fat sets because getting some chip on Gira-O is nice.
24) Lugia -> again, very annoying, the only real way of dealing with it is Wobb + Pursuit it or use Darkrai; CM Lugia as shitty as it is is REALLY bad for this team because it hits like everything and you REALLY need to stop it with Wobb otherwise
25) Skarm -> every mon has a Fire move
26) Tentacruel -> see Deo-S lead sequence; back Tentacruel is pretty rare
27) Froslass -> see Deo-S lead sequence
28) Deo-A -> see Deo-S lead sequence; back Deo-As are rare, but there are 2 strong priority users so it's not a problem
29) Hariyama -> see Deo-S lead sequence
30) Heatran -> the standard Overheat Ray/no Aura Sphere Mewtwo setup finds this surprisingly annoying but position Groudon in for EQ, worst comes to worst +2 Dclaw actually does quite a lot to this
31) Skymin - multiple priority mons, Mewtwo
32) Scizor - Groudon destroys this, otherwise don't let it set up, every mon has a Fire move anyways
33) Kingdra - Ray revenges this easily, keeping sun up is most important
34) Lucario - hard for this to set up anyway, everything has a Fire move, not a problem
35) Ludicolo - keep sun up, Fire Punch/Dclaw/Fire Blast hits this pretty hard
36) Manaphy - keep sun up, otherwise Mewtwo does pretty vs this
37) Gliscor - rare... Mewtwo threatens this super hard, Ray doesn't care too much about him
38) Victreebel - Ray
39) Clefable - dies to like... everything?
40) Quagsire - dies to most things on the team
41) Magnezone - can trap Scizor if locked into Bullet Punch/Pursuit/Quick Attack, but as mentioned previously, Scizor is the one to take the beatings while the rest of the team gets off so yea
42) Infernape - Ray does well vs this, otherwise still have multiple priority mons, it takes like 100% damage from residual damage per turn anyways
43) Omastar - keep sun up, otherwise not a problem
44) Shiftry - Ray/Scizor
45) Dugtrio - the only thing this can trap potentially is Scarftar, but like Scizor, that's generally the first thing to go so whatever
46) Cloyster - see Deo-S vs Cloyster sequencing
47) Metagross - I've begun to respect this a bit more (see a potential expose on my blog), but not with this team. This team destroys Metagross, although Scarf Meta can revenge Ray or Darkrai potentially
48) Deo-D - I think I've only seen this on that Chinese Weatherless HO team, which is almost like this team but slower in setting up hazards... I'm much more scared of the lead Ho-oh than the Deo-D...
49) Salamence - only thing this is on are opposing Wobbray teams; the main thing is to get the initiative up, you still have 2 hard hitting priority users to cushion yourself with if required
50) Celebi - doesn't exist (yet, even though it probably should at some point)
51) Heracross - doesn't exist
52) Machamp - doesn't exist yet
Team/archetype list:
1a) Eclipse:
- If they lead Forretress the main gameplan is to stop them setting up Toxic Spikes with Taunt, and then remove it with Wobbuffet
- Without hazards, their ability to limit your freedom is much less. That being said, if you can't break through their walls it's not going to work
- The way of picking off Cress is to use a combination of Wobbuffet and Scizor/TTar if you can; if you have the Darkrai variant then you need to play really well and save your sleep onto Blissey as much as possible and boost up when she's sleeping
- Once Cress falls it's much easier -> SD Ray pretty much solos unless they have Scarf Dialga, in which case you try and bait it in with like Mewtwo and stuff and remove with Wobb.
- If they are Deo-A/Deo-S/Don lead variants it's not too bad because they probably don't have a spinner so you can pile on the hazards easily with Deo-S to begin with
1b) Lugia sun stall - has been a slightly more common occurrence lately and I think it's actually an evolution from Eclipse in the most recent years; it's harder to break this mainly because Lugia is harder to break than Cress -> main weapon is still Wobb + Pursuit, however if they have Shed Shell you'll be in for a real tough time. Scarftar, DD Ray and Darkrai variants do better, if you have Scizor I'd just spam Pursuit to get decent chip on it and force it out with Mewtwo, then hopefully with Rocks and previous chip you can take it down after.
2) Highlord 6/rain BO:
- If they're Kyogre lead it's pretty easy - set up 2 layers, go to Don, then immediately to Wobbuffet; obviously if you've done this strategy a lot it's time to mix things up a bit
- If they're Deo-S lead then follow the lead guide above
- The key is mainly to chip down Giratina-O -> once that's down the amount of times Kyogre can switch in a get rain back is limited because Groudon pressures them really hard otherwise
3) Baton Pass (Mew):
- Deo-S leads with Fling or TrickScarf with Rocks instead of Spikes tend to give this away a bit
- Preserve Wobb
- Once you see the Dual Screens Mewtwo it's pretty much announced though but they can potentially still be pure Dual Screens HO
- Try to sac something easily to the Mewtwo boom and then bring in your own Mewtwo -> try to have sun up and Fire Blast the Mew and then boom as they get +2 Speed, they're pretty much always forced to BP early to Dialga, and that's usually a pretty easy kill with Wobb. Ray outspeeds +0 Mew as well so you can try to position yourself and just click DD if you have it, or position Groudon in on +0 Mew and Rock Polish up and just click EQ, even under Screens that Dialga will take a ton. Worst case scenario if you Dialga gets to +2/+2 you can still tank with Wobb and Mirror Coat it (assuming you haven't taken too much hazard damage)
4) Ho-oh Balance
- Hate playing against these, however not everyone has the finesse to really bring out the best in Ho-oh anyway so lucky
- Lead Ho-ohs have a big target on them - set up rocks and scout their set -> if CB they bring Deo-S to Sash otherwise they don't. If they're CB then go to M2 and click Thunder, or if you have TTar threaten to Stone Edge them, they might want to preserve; if they're Sub or Berry you may need to trade Mewtwo and/or Ray to it which is very annoying
- Back Ho-ohs are a bit more annoying but if you can keep hazards on is much easier
- These will tend to have Forry/Groudon/rain switch-in/Gira-O/filler, if you can keep Ho-oh low then Groudon is probably the best against these teams
5) Other Sun Balance (eg with Heatran)
- Again, Groudon is probably the best path to victory unless they also have Lugia, in which case you'd have to Wobb/Pursuit them or overload them with Ray
6) Sand/Rain BO +/- Trick Room
- These structures tend to have TTar lead/Ogre/Zong/Gira-O +/- a few others -> need to pressure the Zong early and if you can get rid of that they start folding to M2/Ray.
- If they get a Trick Room off don't panic -> the worst you can do is Encore them into something with Wobb which lets you react a bit easier. You also still have priority and Scizor.
- If you're really scared of these teams you can dump the Speed EVs on Scizor and run 30 Spe IVs and run Superpower on it, that way you always outslow min Speed Dialga and Kyogre (you speed tie otherwise), and those are like the only things that Scizor can't Bullet Punch for good damage anyway.
7) Slow rain (eg stuff with like Ludicolo and stuff)
- Keep sun up and pressure, again Groudon is usually the path to victory. Wobb the slow passive mons, keep hazards up, etc
8) Tspikes Balance (eg Tentacruel lead stuff)
- Try and prevent Tspikes as much as possible. Most of these teams would lead with their Tspikes user - if it's Tentacruel see the Deo-S vs Tentacruel interaction, if it's Forry lead, see the Deo-S vs Forry interaction
- Not much you can do about back Tspikes although they're pretty rare. The only one you might see is like back Forry but by the time that comes you you should have momentum up already and every mon on the team has a way to deal with it
- Groudon is usually the key to winning against these teams, same principle as HL6 and other rain BOs - weaken the Gira-O and most of the time you can win without too much hassle
9) Skarmbliss balance
- Fortunately this team actually does okay vs Skarmbliss since all 3 sweepers can hit both Skarm and Bliss.
- It starts getting annoying when they pair with stuff like Lugia - try to chip down as much with Wobb and Pursuit.
10) Other sun HO (including Wobbray mirrors) - can be hard to go against especially if you lost the Deo-S speed tie -> Wobb is your key to slow the tempo down to try and get it back on your own terms
Other versions of the team and other interesting experimental ideas:
=> works well, shuffles lead order a bit in order to punish Ttar leads, a bit worse off against shit like Forry and Tentacruel (can also use Scarf and Zen Headbutt to beat Tentacruel leads but not Forry) => Scarf Darkrai is not bad as a lead to circumvent the Deo-S mirror although given popularity of Scarf Deo-S I'm not a huge fan of this set up atm -> it's still better against Stalltwo but worse against lead Ho-oh by far => Standard Lucario build, I noted why I don't like this as much in general, but against balance and offense it works okay, against stall, not so much => works well, a bit slower and a bit more Stall prone, your best weapon against those is the SD Groudon => standard Salaquaza, even more susceptible to getting Lugiaed than the rest but I think this is the best setup I have for using Mence; can still Pursuit chip Lugia with Scizor => Shrang? Using an Ogre lead? Oh wait it was Wobbray all along? Always has been => A bit like the Ogre/Meta lead to just click buttons with Ho-oh and then play like classic Wobbray, however Ho-oh is not the most flexible mon, I should try with the Passho set at some point thoughMemes:
=> pretty crappy but fun => lol, idea is to just set up Trick Room, try to kill a thing or two with Ramp and set up Rocks on the turn you die then play it like classic Wobbray => fun Linoone set, problem with Linoone is less its ability to sweep (actually really good in a vacuum) but more its lack of defensive utility usually, if its base Attack was better it would be great => Raticate is too funny to leave out of this => more evil => basically like the Smeargle variant but more fun; even though Starf Berry is random any boost is useful to the rest of the sweepers -> SpD is great for Don because Gira-O can't kill it now, Atk is great for both Don and Ray, Spe is great for Ray and M2, SpA is obviously great for M2 and Def is good for all three of them, in particular M2 though => similar idea to the Ogre lead Deo-S version but just a bit worse but style points for using OmastarFarceus:
In terms of Farceus, I think it's just best to replace Ray/Mewtwo/Scizor. I find Darkrai more important for these structures because Ghostceus is a real pain and defensive mons like Lugia and stuff are just more annoying in general. That being said I find Mag/Ekiller/Ray easier to use in Farceus for the time being.
Another option is to run SD Ghostceus instead, in which you can then use Ray again because you'd have a Fightceus check in Ghostceus.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-636893
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-669884
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-746053
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-703452
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-772577
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-782923
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-823936
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-748011 (Metagross lead)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-809447 (Metagross lead)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-821164 (Ho-oh lead, Scarf though)
Anyway that's it folks. Hopefully when people use this in random roomtours or even proper tours people will finally use this properly (I've probably got my hopes up though).
Shoutouts to the currentish DPP Ubers and Farceus community: Highlord Seldanna susciety Mashing rookierobbie OreoSpeedruns Exiline RichardMillePlain Fc JabbaTheGriffin FatFighter2 TyCarter Milkshook Hack Inspirited Lasen Ainzcrad realaccountami? Sheik burstbean London Beats robjr Magician Taka Thor LBN Hiro' OranBerryBlissey10 lolebruh Dry Defender Dave Luigi skimmythegod 64 Squares Piyu Staxi Miraculous Gold Thiago Nunes Tbolt zf Pokemh + many others
Credit to BKC for the Wobb video
Again my OCN peeps, too bad we didn't get to play UWC this year but didn't sound like we had a huge appetite for it anyway aurora Aberforth March Fires TrueNora Drifting Trade Stallion byronthewellwell etern baconeatinassassin MagearnaTheBoss
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