NOC Dragon Ball Z NOC - Day 4

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This is a closed set-up game created by MysticSoul based around DBZ, a series I was banned from watching as a child. 72 hours for the day and 48 hours for the night phase.

Day 1 will last roughly 90 hours without extension and will end at 10 PM PDT, Friday
(3 PM on Saturday, UTC +10, for the host)

Lynches will occur by plurality (meaning that the person with the most votes placed on them at the end of the day phase will be lynched). In the event of a tie, the tied candidates will be randomised for a single lynch. A majority of votes will end the day; if majority happens while I'm not around, stop posting.

Important rules:
  • You may not communicate with any other players about the game outside the thread unless indicated otherwise by your role.
  • Post editing is allowed, but only for an hour after its submission. Post deletion is not and will likely result in something unpleasant happening to you, so don't be a shitter and cheat.
  • Once four role claims have been made (this includes soft claims, like hinting that you have an important role or hinting at your character, true or false), no one else may claim for the rest of the game. Public claim tallies will be posted by the host at appropriate intervals.
  • You must vote every day, even it is for no lynch. Failure to vote will probably result in something unpleasant happening to you. Don't be a shitter and break the rules.
  • If you need a substitute, PM me. I hate idlers.
  • Extensions may be requested by PMing me on the forums. I will probably not grant extensions for inactivity; reasons like foreseeable player absence, player substitution, etc. are all valid reasons though.
  • Your role PM consists only of publicly available information from the game setup; any text outside of quotes may not be quoted or paraphrased. You are of course free to discuss how roles work, but may not indicate whether any non-public information is given by the host. Just try not to loophole the rules.
I'm not going to answer questions in thread about the setup, but you may PM me with them.

Game setup:

Z Fighters (Town)

Son Goku (Vigilante) - Goku is a Saiyan originally sent to Earth as an infant with the mission to destroy it. However, an accident alters his memory, causing him to grow up pure-hearted and later become Earth's greatest defender, as well as the informal leader of the Z Fighters. He'll do anything to uphold peace and that's why gets 3 night kills. But if he shoots a town, he'll suicide due to guilt.

Son Gohan (Cop) - Gohan is the son of Goku and Chi-Chi. Her mother forced her to study from the early stages of his life. Due to his vast knowledge, he can learn someone's side (town, mafia or TP) by investigating them.

Dende (Doctor) - Dende is the Earth's Guardian. He's a Namekian and has a unique gift - he can heal others. Due to this, he will be able to protect one person each night (except himself). He may not protect same person twice in a row.

Piccolo (Jailer) - Piccolo is a Namekian and the final reincarnation of Demon King Piccolo. He was once a ruthless enemy of Goku but then become permanent member of Z Fighters. He's very strategic and wise. Due to this, he can protect someone by hiding them in Kami's Lookout. This will block all the actions performed on them but will also block their own actions.

Lord Beerus (Jack of all Trades) - Lord Beerus is the God of Destruction of the 7th Universe. He's second most powerful being in Universe 7 (after his teacher, Whis). Since he's a God, he has one investigation, one heal and one shot.

Vegeta (Veteran) - Vegeta is the Prince of Saiyans. Regal, egotistical and full of pride, Vegeta was once a ruthless, cold-blooded warrior and outright killer, but later opted to stay at Earth. He has very short temper and does not like visitors. Therefore, anyone who visits them at night will be killed. Immune to NKs.

Tien Shinhan (Escort) - Tien is heavily devoted to martial arts, reclusive and disciplined. Tien is also one of the strongest Humans. He's very courageous and engages in fight with enemies far stronger than him. He has mastered a move called Solar Flare. With this one, he can temporarily blind (distract) someone and prevent them from using their action.

Son Goten (Tracker) - Goten is the second son of Goku and Chi-Chi. He's Gohan's younger brother and Trunks' best friend. As he's Trunks best friend, they have decided that during nights, Goten will track and Trunks will watch others. Goten can target a person at night and know whom they visit during the night.

Trunks (Watcher) - Trunks is the son of Vegeta and Bulma and best friend of Goten. As Trunks and Goten have decided, Trunks can target a player at night and know who visited them.

Bulma (Reviver) - Bulma is a scientist and runs Capsule Corporation. She has a Dragon Radar with which she can find Dragon Balls easily. Due to this, she can wish back a person alive (only once).

Mr. Buu (Bulletproof) - Mr. Buu (Good Buu) is the result of the Innocent Buu using fission to split into good and evil halves. He's very strong and can't be killed easily. Therefore, he can survive one NK or lynch but not the second.

King Kai (Crier) - King Kai is a deity, the king of the North Area, and Goku's martial arts teacher, and later mentor. He has pair of cricket-like antennae, which he uses to have psychic conversations with others across the universe. Therefore, the Crier can send PM communication through me which they want the town to know. They can't claim (soft,, hard, hidden, etc.,) at all. If they do so, they will be modkilled/replaced.

Third Party

Broly (Serial Killer) - Broly is the latest of the Legendary Super Saiyans who appear every thousand years. He is immensely powerful and hates Goku. He has lost himself to anger because of Goku. That's why he can kill one person every night. You will be granted bonus NK for next night if you kill Goku. Immune to NKs. Can be exactly pin pointed by Cop.

Android 17 and Android 18 (Evil Twins) - They are the seventeenth and eighteenth creations by Dr. Gero to kill Goku. You know each others identity but aren't able to PM each other. Both of you send a kill to me each night. If both of them are different, nothing happens. If they are same, the person will die even if they are being protected. You both will win when you outnumber others. You both can't be roleblocked and if one dies, the other gets their sole. The dead partner wins when their twin wins.

Z Villians (Mafia)

Cell (Godfather) - Cell is the ultimate creation of Dr. Gero. He is made up of cells of all the Z Fighters and therefore will appear as Town when investigated. Immune to NKs. Has final say on who will be NK'd.

Frieza (Framer) - Frieza is the galactic overload which is feared by everyone. He has a very big army and is enemy of Saiyans. He can destroy planets in mere seconds. He can choose one person each night who will be shown as a random mafia if investigated that night.

Kid Buu (Roleblocker) - Kid Buu is the original form of Majin Buu. This is also the strongest form of Majin Buu. He can convert one person into cookie (:smirk:) each night to prevent them from using their action.

Babidi (Transporter) - Babidi is doppelganger of a very powerful wizard, Bibidi. He can use his magic to transport two people at night. He can transport people only thrice throughout the game.
I'm going to be hosting a game in the foreseeable future and probably will veto your sign-up if you idle in this game, fyi. If you're planning to idle your role, tell me so updates can be sped up.

Have fun! I don't know anything at all about DBZ, so look forward to the updates!
 
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Sorry this took me so long! I was in the middle of eating dinner.

Players

Alive (8/19)

Asek
billymills
Blazade
internet
Jalmont
King_
macle
Yeti

Dead (11/19)
acidphoenix
- Piccolo, Town Jailer - Lynched Day 1
UncleSam - Dende, Town Doctor - Killed Night 1
Walrein - Son Goku, Town Vigilante - Killed Night 1 (subbed in for SteelEdges)
Haruno - Vegeta, Town Veteran - Lynched Day 2
Flyhn - Android 18, Evil Twin - Killed Night 2
Blue_Tornado - Kid Buu, Mafia Roleblocker - Lynched Day 3
rssp1 - Bulma, Town Reviver - Killed Night 3
Mithril - Tien Shinhan, Town Escort - Killed Night 3
LightWolf - Babidi, Mafia Transporter - Killed Night 3
Thetwinmasters - Broly, Third Party Serial Killer - Lynched Day 4
Da Letter El - Son Gohan, Town Cop - Killed Night 4

Do not quote your role PM or talk about anything other than publicly available information

All PMs are out and posting may commence! \o/
 
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Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor
posting to lynch unclesam because it is tradition i accuse him of being scum d1

also ty to jumpluff for taking over hosting of this game!!

to the 10 people i have at gunpoint: note that your safe release is contingent on not being an idling dickhead
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Questions for the host:
1. Do mafia 'claiming' count against the tally?
2. Will the tally of public claims be revealed?
3. What happens to the fifth person to publicly claim?
4. Tie lynch = no lynch or both lynch?
5. Plurality = lynch I presume?
6. Does the Crier PM things to the host and then those PMs get sent to all villagers simultaneously, or can the Crier simply send private messages to other players? Is it just an announcement at the start of the day for all to see?

Questions for other players:
1. Which roles ought to publicly claim immediately?
2. Do you agree with me that we ought to Lynch billymills?

I think that the Bulletproof (Mr. Buu) and Veteran (Vegeta) ought to claim publicly during Day 1 so that we have two clears who can't really be nightkilled by the mafia. If they get counterclaimed then we know who to focus night roles on (both watcher AND cops so that we can pick out a Framer on someone in a 50/50). If they don't get counterclaimed then we have two cleans for free who the mafia would have to invest serious resources into offing, which is probably even better for us.

Thoughts? How else should we plan to use our four public claims (pending answers to my above questions anyway)?
 
Host questions

1. Yes
2. Yes, at appropriate intervals
3. Will be determined at the time for various reasons, it won't be nice
4. Lynch will be randomised in the event of a tie (I know this is unpopular, so don't do it)
5. Yes, plurality lynch
6. Paraphrased announcement in the start of day update

Thanks because I knew I was forgetting something (lynch rules) These are fairly standard lynch rules on other sites so I forgot

OP will be edited
 

Haruno

me irl.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I think that the Bulletproof (Mr. Buu) and Veteran (Vegeta) ought to claim publicly during Day 1 so that we have two clears who can't really be nightkilled by the mafia. If they get counterclaimed then we know who to focus night roles on (both watcher AND cops so that we can pick out a Framer on someone in a 50/50). If they don't get counterclaimed then we have two cleans for free who the mafia would have to invest serious resources into offing, which is probably even better for us.

Thoughts? How else should we plan to use our four public claims (pending answers to my above questions anyway)?
Buu seems like a good idea unless the mafia wants to double target kill him which seems like a pretty large investment especially so if he's being protected.

Honestly claiming vegeta seems like the easiest claim to make for any individual because no inspector wants to risk inspecting to verify vegeta's role or not so a mafia can easily claim that with relatively little consequence since the risk is high if I understand his ability correctly. Just to clarify jumpluff if anyone targets vegeta at night, they're autokilled correct? Would this bypass abilities such as buu? Or would they have to use their BPV to check. Overall vegeta seems to be the easiest role to claim with little risk involved since it's impossible to confirm or deny it if I understand how the ability is used correctly.

I feel like the biggest thing is we don't want everyone to claim or it'll be blatantly obvious who king kai is since king kai is the only town outside communication we can obtain if I read that as well. Mind clarifying this as well? If king kai sends out a message, will all town get it without exception? If so then that could be the easiest way to verify town.

I don't know though, there are no claims that are really easy to claim since so many of the Z fighters have such high profile abilities that it's hard to claim any since they're prone mafia targets regardless of who you pick.
 

Haruno

me irl.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Yeah so that just further shows my point that there's no real harm to claiming vegeta since no z warriors can validate a vegeta claim without potentially killing themselves (or using buu's BPV) or to try and coordinate an action between dende + someone else to inspect vegeta which is still a pretty hard commitment and especially hard to do early on in the game, whereas no mafia/wolf would bother killing vegeta because his role doesn't seem that threatening to them since he can't really damage them.

Idk, to me it seems extremely hard to claim any role especially if you claim a role that will be most likely be protected at all times and very prone to being inspected, could always get framed by frieza which would uh suck to say the least. Overall the game as a whole seems pretty interesting. It'll be difficult to figure out who's who early on. We probably want to remove frieza or broly early on since they seem to have the most immediate threatening kill options.
 

Blazade

is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
I think buu should definiely wait until he's going to be lynched to claim. Vegeta MAY want to claim for fear of village roles accidentally targeting him and dying.

A vegeta claim is a weird 50-50, because I think that guy's so strong that the mafia might be willing to trade one of heir number for him and it might be a good deal

I also think we should definitely try to save as many claims as possible for LYLO

I also think we should seriously consider hypoclaiming results (If your role can target people, claim the target, but not what happened to them, if you can't you can lie about target or say you had no target) so that when you die or as things become more logically complete we can figure out what you are without the need for claiming. In light of this, I think it's OK for Vegeta to wait a day before claiming. It should be his call whether he believes he'll be targeted night 1, I think.

I think UncleSam wants a Village Leader (TM) to solve all our problems for us but that's not going to cut it in NOC imo.

Vote SteelEdges because he's Heatran
 

Flyhn

Mafia Champion
Whether or not Vegeta outs really depends on how risky they want to play.

If they do out it ensures none of us on the village target them and die needlessly, yet on the flip side the mafia would be much less likely to target them.

If they don't out, then maf could potentially rand them and die as a result, but a Villager could easily do the same thing

Honestly i'd leave it up to them, though be weary of potential fake claims, as vet is an absurdly easy fakeclaim as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a D1 vet cc if they decide to out or maf decides to fake
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
We def don't want both claiming because mafia could ACTUALLY viably counterclaim both AND THEN WE CAN NEVER get any results from any info roles.(before anyone says mafia wouldn't do it, I'd just point it out, I'd do it in a heartbeat, because fuck having to deal with an unkillable clean person the whole game) Though I'm personally thinking Vegeta would kill the Bus Driver or whatever so that's not a threat for the claim plan. That being said I just generally disagree with this plan because:

A, UncleSam said it
B, It goes against the point of the game
C, Shits and giggles
D, Actual reason at the end of the post.

Can we however agree, that people being lynched don't get to claim unless they are Watcher, Tracker, Jack Of All Trades or Reviver with either relevant results or Doctor alive, 17 or 18 dead and Mafia Roleblocker dead. Vigilante is a liability to keep alive outed while Broly is still out there, doctor dies anyways, etc.

Now that considered, every time we lynch attempt to lynch a bad guy, they will waste a fucking claim, worse sometimes we won't even lynch them due to that, leading to counterclaims becoming lucrative to the actual holder of the role. We can't soft claim, we can't reveal results, Track Watcher and cop will be going around having to pretend they have no info the second we use them up. So I'd rather not use one up just so we have someone unkillable "leading" the village.

So I guess the best way to put it is this:

I PROPOSE(This is a more severe version of my previous proposal which I thin kwe should def follow), no one claim, if you are lynched, even if an info role, do not claim UNLESS you have info that damns a bad guy, we will have mafias not visiting anyone, cop could clean cell, clean info is unreliable and pointless till those are gone. If anyone claims without that(and frankly they should claim like that before the lynch got as far as to lynch them, because you can't just sit on a known bad guy's name this game). If anyone claims if being lynched, they are either bad or fucking us over anyways.
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Also Vote UncleSam

Started a discussion that literally made a list of people less likely to be Vegeta or BPV, which highly benefits bad guys. However it's US and this is so Genius Game of him that I'm just doing my early rand vote unless he responds unfavourably to this.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Important question with regards to whether Vegeta should claim: how precisely does the transporter work and would the transporter die if targeting Vegeta?

Some of LWs logic I buy in that some rules werent clear to me (and some still arent clear), and we definitely shouldnt have people getting mislynched wasting claims BUT the mafia will take our claims sooner rather than later so we cant 'save' them, we have to use them Day 1 or 2 specifically to arrive at 50/50 lynch options.

Keep in mind that the mafia in this game will probably be loath to draw themselves into 50/50s, considering that if we lynch the more suspicious person Goku can always kill the other and then if we have to invest another lynch cause Cell/Broly thats sti way worth for us.

Ya the more i think about it the more i think that just using our claims ASAP is important.

Quick follow up though: if a cop gets a guilty or someone knows someone else is mafia for any reason, theyre always allowed to just say 'i know for a fact X is mafia' without blowing a claim, right? They might not be able to share the evidence, but we will still get the relevant information.

If thats the case (jpluff please confirm) then id be very disappointed if BPV and Vegeta (wait on host confirmation regarding transporter though!) didnt claim. We should wait like 24 hours before doing anything regardless though.

Anyway LW reads slightly town to me, hes trying and even though some of his logic is wrong thats kinda par for the course, he usually doesnt go into so much detail as mafia so early. Need to hear more from the rest of the ge though.
 

Blazade

is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Unless mafia claim mafia they aren't wasting our claims lol and if they want to do that they can fucking go right ahead.

Using our claims sooner rather than later is a horrible idea.

Mr Buu claiming before he can soak a mafia shot for the other roles is a horrible idea.

Vegeta claiming before he gets a mafia killed is usually bad in my opinion.

Lightwolf is on point and expressed my intuition better than I was going to be able to.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Maybe you don't understand that mafia could claim any village role and use up one of our claims? Why wouldn't that just be a total and complete loss of one of our claims? Also if we ever lynch a mafia/non-villager than they will also use up one of our claims, and we only get four, so sorry Blazade but there's no chance in hell that our claims will make it past Day 3/4 no matter what happens. The only question is how many actual villagers get to use them.

I'm curious as to whether you're just unclear on the claiming rules or if you're trying really hard to push for a rather obviously terrible move for the town tbh
 

Blazade

is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Also UncleSam, let's get this out of the way right now. I'm not going to lynch someone because they didn't reach the same game theoretic conclusions about a very complicated setup that you did or agree with you instantly. Similarly, just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I see mafia intent in you. The longer we talk about strictly objective things like optimal town strategy the less alignment indicative stuff we get. That said, this is important to air out and agree upon so let's get it out of the way.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
UncleSam said:
1. Do mafia 'claiming' count against the tally?
jumpluff said:
That being said jumpluff it is true that in the signup thread MysticSoul said that mafia/non-villager claiming would not count against the tally unless there was a counterclaim, in which case it only counted as 1 against the tally. Presumably the tally would never be revealed but given you're the host I'd like confirmation on how you'll handle it.

Hopefully this clears up the question for everyone else as well, and why I hold the stance I do on claiming since I already asked this question and the host responded, so I think that LW/Blazade are just confused as to what the host said tbh...
 
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