Sorry for my lack of posting. Will read the whole thread today and get in the game.
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NOC Dragon Ball Z NOC - Day 4
- Thread starter jumpluff
- Start date
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Gonna respond now, my last post was made quickly whilst writing an essay, i wasnt avoiding the thread! I've been re reading lw and unclesams posts as well as everyone elses today to try reach a better conclusion and its been a lot of info to take in. Posting this at 4AM sorry if its all over the place.
r.e my jalmont vote (also it was like 3-5 votes not 1-2 ._.)
just bandwagonning, but i do think a lynch should happen this cycle considering theres a respectable chance we get a baddie and if we screw it up horrendously bulma can revive for an oppurtune cycle / for good if #17 and #18 are both done. Regardless jalmonts posts since dont seem to show anything to cause suspicion and the bandwagons dead at any rate.
unvote jalmont
r.e vegeta claiming
The village roles I belive will be acting cycle 1 are : gohan, piccolo, tien, goten, trunks and likely dende for a total 6. I think beerus will save each of his abilities for at least cycle 2 when theres a smaller group of players to hit with his 1 chance abilities (but he may decide to inspect), and goku is self explantory as to why he wont be acting. Then the non vill has 5 roles that will try act tonight (counting androids as a single for the purpose of their 1 action), with babidi being the only role i see with a possibility of not acting, but being quite a possibility to bringing it up to 6. Considering how mafia deaths are a lot more impactful than village roles at this stage I don't see any reason for vegeta to claim at this point. The math blazade did earlier helped me in forming this opinion, but what really sets it for me is how great of swing getting a frieza / buu kill this early could be and the risk / reward toss up for me between potentially losing a vill compared to taking out a mafia, the risk of losing a villager to me is worth it for the potential of the mafia losing an impactful role so early, or having their kill wasted first cycle. Once mafia hits vegeta i agree he should come forward as a claim, but until that happens I think under a best case scenario we the village can accrue a huge advantage whilst the worst of the worst case is that we wipeout nearly everyone, but in a realistic case we come out as slightly gimped.
r.e buu claiming
I feel wanting a buu claim is also against the villages best interests . Wanting to have vegeta + buu claim day 1 leaves 2 of our claims left, and I've already explained why I don't believe a vegeta claim is nessecarily in village best interests, but I see very little gain from buu revealing himself at all to the village, if hes lynched he gets cleared regardless, if he gets hit by a mafia he takes a shot that was better sent elsewhere, and more importantly there are far more impactful roles that I think the claims should be saved for. Another thing to consider - if buu claims the androids will try sneak a way into their postings to identify how they will target future kills and they will be able to do it on buu without much to lose ; people will without a doubt discuss the claim and this will be when the androids will try to establish the method of communication they will use to effectively ensure they are on the same page when it comes to their kill.
r.e my posting on unclesam + lw
My initial reason for posting this was it seemed that each was trying to push the other into saying something that would make them appear scummy. This is general NOC interaction im pretty sure, but the argument over several page made me get the feeling (at least) that one of the parties was trying to get a slip to use to accuse the other, and there was the potential in my eyes at least for one to be mafia trying to get the other through an awkward line.
This was more a quick thought but for unclesam he seems to be adamant in a vegeta claim cycle 1. The reasoning I provided above is why I believe vegeta claiming actually benefits the non town more than town this early, and when he said that the bulma revive could then be used on vegeta (post #69) if a counterclaim scenario occured was when i started to think something could be up. Bulma's revive is worth so much more than a vegeta, and trying to argue that it would be good usage to trade it for only 1 mafia kill doesnt make much sense to me when the potential for the revive is so much greater come lategame with revives such as goku / piccolo being so much more potent in nearly every situation than using it on vegeta to find one mafia. Reviving the vegeta ensures the resource gets used, but it doesnt justify using it for me. The loss of the revive on the vegeta is quite beneficial for the mafia factions imo, it is easily one of the weakest revives and prevents a powerful piccolo / goku res come late game which could swing the game completely. This might just be sam viewing the revive in a conservative manner, but i believe it could also be attempting to get the revive used in a manner that detriments the mafia in the least way possible. I dont buy into the whole mafia idling argument either due to the counterpoints blazade and lw bought up that i wont rehash
i initially suspected lightwolf could potentially be mafia trying to push sam into making posts that would make him have awkward slips that could make him look like a mafia as i said above, but from what internet posted they argue like this often I gather? Maybe I'm completely off base with that point because I didnt know about this.
I will say this is the first NOC type game I've played on any forum - some of my reads may be bad because of that.
r.e my jalmont vote (also it was like 3-5 votes not 1-2 ._.)
just bandwagonning, but i do think a lynch should happen this cycle considering theres a respectable chance we get a baddie and if we screw it up horrendously bulma can revive for an oppurtune cycle / for good if #17 and #18 are both done. Regardless jalmonts posts since dont seem to show anything to cause suspicion and the bandwagons dead at any rate.
unvote jalmont
r.e vegeta claiming
The village roles I belive will be acting cycle 1 are : gohan, piccolo, tien, goten, trunks and likely dende for a total 6. I think beerus will save each of his abilities for at least cycle 2 when theres a smaller group of players to hit with his 1 chance abilities (but he may decide to inspect), and goku is self explantory as to why he wont be acting. Then the non vill has 5 roles that will try act tonight (counting androids as a single for the purpose of their 1 action), with babidi being the only role i see with a possibility of not acting, but being quite a possibility to bringing it up to 6. Considering how mafia deaths are a lot more impactful than village roles at this stage I don't see any reason for vegeta to claim at this point. The math blazade did earlier helped me in forming this opinion, but what really sets it for me is how great of swing getting a frieza / buu kill this early could be and the risk / reward toss up for me between potentially losing a vill compared to taking out a mafia, the risk of losing a villager to me is worth it for the potential of the mafia losing an impactful role so early, or having their kill wasted first cycle. Once mafia hits vegeta i agree he should come forward as a claim, but until that happens I think under a best case scenario we the village can accrue a huge advantage whilst the worst of the worst case is that we wipeout nearly everyone, but in a realistic case we come out as slightly gimped.
r.e buu claiming
I feel wanting a buu claim is also against the villages best interests . Wanting to have vegeta + buu claim day 1 leaves 2 of our claims left, and I've already explained why I don't believe a vegeta claim is nessecarily in village best interests, but I see very little gain from buu revealing himself at all to the village, if hes lynched he gets cleared regardless, if he gets hit by a mafia he takes a shot that was better sent elsewhere, and more importantly there are far more impactful roles that I think the claims should be saved for. Another thing to consider - if buu claims the androids will try sneak a way into their postings to identify how they will target future kills and they will be able to do it on buu without much to lose ; people will without a doubt discuss the claim and this will be when the androids will try to establish the method of communication they will use to effectively ensure they are on the same page when it comes to their kill.
r.e my posting on unclesam + lw
My initial reason for posting this was it seemed that each was trying to push the other into saying something that would make them appear scummy. This is general NOC interaction im pretty sure, but the argument over several page made me get the feeling (at least) that one of the parties was trying to get a slip to use to accuse the other, and there was the potential in my eyes at least for one to be mafia trying to get the other through an awkward line.
This was more a quick thought but for unclesam he seems to be adamant in a vegeta claim cycle 1. The reasoning I provided above is why I believe vegeta claiming actually benefits the non town more than town this early, and when he said that the bulma revive could then be used on vegeta (post #69) if a counterclaim scenario occured was when i started to think something could be up. Bulma's revive is worth so much more than a vegeta, and trying to argue that it would be good usage to trade it for only 1 mafia kill doesnt make much sense to me when the potential for the revive is so much greater come lategame with revives such as goku / piccolo being so much more potent in nearly every situation than using it on vegeta to find one mafia. Reviving the vegeta ensures the resource gets used, but it doesnt justify using it for me. The loss of the revive on the vegeta is quite beneficial for the mafia factions imo, it is easily one of the weakest revives and prevents a powerful piccolo / goku res come late game which could swing the game completely. This might just be sam viewing the revive in a conservative manner, but i believe it could also be attempting to get the revive used in a manner that detriments the mafia in the least way possible. I dont buy into the whole mafia idling argument either due to the counterpoints blazade and lw bought up that i wont rehash
i initially suspected lightwolf could potentially be mafia trying to push sam into making posts that would make him have awkward slips that could make him look like a mafia as i said above, but from what internet posted they argue like this often I gather? Maybe I'm completely off base with that point because I didnt know about this.
I will say this is the first NOC type game I've played on any forum - some of my reads may be bad because of that.
Yeah they are locked in some feudal lord battle over me and neither thinks the other deserves me so they both endlessly troll and are rude to each other then try to blame the other or say "I wasn't being serious!!" so it's like ? ?
Like boys, boys, please. Once cloning humans becomes legal I will submit my DNA and we will get 1 for each:
But seriously yes they always argue and no they never agree on anything which has led to them clogging the thread with stale tl;drs on the same subject. Not Looking Forward to ISOing them. This makes it hard to get a good read on their interactions because it feels like same old, same old, which doesn't preclude both from being village, both from being mafia, one being town and the other scum, or what they CLEARLY are: the androids. Kill me tonight you cucks I dare you.
Anyway good post from Asek showing some thought about the game. I do still find reason to be suspicious of his jalmont vote and continued phrasing regarding it though. He seems rather eager for a successful D1 lynch regardless of who the victim is (which says neut more than anything else to me).
Flyhn good post as well. I do recognize it was a fair bit of parroting what I had assessed about Sam however it is also a conclusion I agree with. Not sure I'm willing to D1 lynch Sam over it though.
Defensive af post from Blazade overexplaining himself to counter me. Got something to hide sonny?
Is there a reason you capitalized Not Looking Forward?
This post seems really strange.
This post seems really strange.
I edited it I forgot Flyhn posted but wanted to add 2 bits about him and Asek.
No reason beyond emphasis and general writing style, see:
It is at this point I got Bored of reskimming
On the other hand I feel nothing because it focuses on meta arguments. That said I wasn't fixed on Asek to begin with.
I only voted US because we're required to vote in this game and it's the best read I have so far, and not sure if anything will happen to change that yet
And on a side note reading through Fire and Ice again, which was only 1 year ago, I cringed at my play.. did I seriously shitpost THAT much?! Geez
And on a side note reading through Fire and Ice again, which was only 1 year ago, I cringed at my play.. did I seriously shitpost THAT much?! Geez
Vote Unclesam
Gotta get out my mandatory vote before I forget, I believe Flynn on the inconsistent play thing and vouching heavily for a strategy contrary to the village's interests according to nearly everyone is sketchy I guess. I'm assuming Yeti is jokingly suggesting That being said, I wouldn't vote at all if it wasn't mandatory.
I can see you viewing this thread acidphoenix , what do you think?
Gotta get out my mandatory vote before I forget, I believe Flynn on the inconsistent play thing and vouching heavily for a strategy contrary to the village's interests according to nearly everyone is sketchy I guess. I'm assuming Yeti is jokingly suggesting That being said, I wouldn't vote at all if it wasn't mandatory.
I can see you viewing this thread acidphoenix , what do you think?
There's nothing 'inconsistent' about my play here, I always vote a bunch of people and flip through a bunch of different things to see what people find interesting.
Legit no clue what Flyhn is talking about. I do find it interesting that internet is willing to 'take Flyhn's word for it' on the first player argument against me, and that Haruno just says 'Sam still seems the most suspicious' when he hasn't said that before I think?
Unvote
Vote Haruno
Explain why you think I'm suspicious. Idc about the bandwagon vote that much but you have to explain it more.
Also internet I'm going to expect you to explain more as well.
Finally I want Flyhn to explain more what he means.
Legit no clue what Flyhn is talking about. I do find it interesting that internet is willing to 'take Flyhn's word for it' on the first player argument against me, and that Haruno just says 'Sam still seems the most suspicious' when he hasn't said that before I think?
Unvote
Vote Haruno
Explain why you think I'm suspicious. Idc about the bandwagon vote that much but you have to explain it more.
Also internet I'm going to expect you to explain more as well.
Finally I want Flyhn to explain more what he means.
I already thought you were suspicious based on the whole thing where you fervently support what everyone else appears to think are bad plays, and I have a good gut feeling about Flyhn. It would be ideal if he showed his research instead of just stating the results, though, so I suppose I agree with you there.
wtf are u people doing
first of all there is no 'mandatory vote' that must be used, i don't even vote in NOCs d1 until the actual lynch comes around and idc if other people don't as well, i'm gonna unvote w/e tf i was voting.
second of all i said "Not sure I'm willing to D1 lynch Sam over it though." and then the 3 amigos rock up to vote him with their "mandatory votes"
is blue tornado your mafia godfather and told you guys you HAVE TO vote or something? lmao.
y'all some hooligans rn.
first of all there is no 'mandatory vote' that must be used, i don't even vote in NOCs d1 until the actual lynch comes around and idc if other people don't as well, i'm gonna unvote w/e tf i was voting.
second of all i said "Not sure I'm willing to D1 lynch Sam over it though." and then the 3 amigos rock up to vote him with their "mandatory votes"
is blue tornado your mafia godfather and told you guys you HAVE TO vote or something? lmao.
y'all some hooligans rn.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting this and/or what you said, but there appears to be a contradiction here ?_?
I'll give you that, buuut....
Your voting patern. Let's use Fire and Ice as an example. In D1 in that game, your vote switched between only 3 people for the entirety of the day, and you legitimately pushed these people.
Now this game, D1 isn't even over yet and you've already voted AT LEAST 5 different people, and you're barely even pushing until moving to the next person. And it really reads like you're auto fosing anyone who disagrees with your meta opinions on Vegeta, which is just ridiculous.
By 'the whole game' you mean billymills and LightWolf? Because Blazade himself said he was coming around to my view, Mithril supported it, and several others said they weren't sure. What is your opinion on that strategy (ie Vegeta claims today)?
There's a few problems with this:
A. I was tunnelling on newbies and lynched a newbie who was town. Believe it or not I've decided not to tunnel on newbies anymore (in previous games I'd still be talking about Asek's pretty bad scumslip a few pages ago just like I talked about Haunted Diamond's scumslip for literal ages in Fire and Ice)
B. Most of my votes have been obviously facetious, though I'm certainly voting more people than in previous games and guess what, those people end up posting. So mission accomplished to me.
C. Of course I'm auto FoSing anyone who says things that are blatantly anti-town, that is the benefit of a known setup with lots of power roles. It gives us things to catch smart players on where they suggest subpar strategies.
It is not ridiculous in any way.
I don't think Flyhn is mafia because I doubt mafia Flyhn bothers to read my previous NOC comments to try to figure things out, I'd be very opposed to anyone lynching Flyhn at this point.
internet is a LOT more troubling to me. He's sort of going with the flow, saying things are 'scummy' whenever they appear to be in vogue to call them scummy rather than focusing on having his own opinions, and just generally seems to be trying to look like he's having his own opinion/saying his own things or putting pressure on me while in reality he is trying to hide from the limelight as much as possible.
I like Yeti's recent posts more though the random capitalization stuff in her post is really troubling; the fact that LW is capitalizing A's at random (Yeti pls point to what you meant by this but he has been randomly capitalizing, I just don't see an 'A' emphasis in particular) is also super troubling and I actually think LW might be an android now lol, think about it:
- Who benefits the most from Vegeta randomly killing both mafia AND villagers (via not claiming until later)?
- Who benefits from the mafia being able to waste our claims as a last-ditch incentive to getting lynched?
- Who benefits from Roleblockers/Jailkeepers/Transporters having extra incentive to idle?
The answer to all three of these questions is the same: the thiry party roles.
Unvote
Lynch LightWolf
Tell me why your play thus far is inconsistent with being a Third Party (and particularly an Android) role.
Opinions on this being LW code for 'kill billymills tonight'?
I heavily implied you were suspicious in one of my previous posts (the one where I tagged yeti/LW). Due to never playing with you and not really seeing how you play mafia up till now, your very direct supposedly taking charge seems fine to me. However, what's most suspicious is how your posts have been hidden behind the veil of protecting village where as LW/yeti stated how it's far more beneficial to village to keep vegeta hidden. Not to mention the constant need to try and force your opinion when it's not in the best interests of anyone but mafia and to further show this, you attempt to compromise later on going from VEGETA/BUU MUST CLAIM to VEGETA/BUU CLAIM TO BE PR which is still accomplishing what you wanted. Overall, everything you've been saying has been leaning more for the mafia's benefit more so than village which is why to me you seem the most likely to be scum at the moment.
If you think that Vegeta claiming is a bad thing then make your own argument. I've already explained countless times (and in my most recent post) why Vegeta claiming helps the village massively and why Vegeta not claiming helps the third parties disproportionately. Do you disagree? If so, make your own argument.
It can't be emphasized enough that puppetting other people's arguments gives no insight into your thoughts about the game and hurts the village when we look through previous days and see no independent thought from people who have flipped.
Stating that someone else says a strategy leans scum means nothing. Say why you think it leans scum. There's six scum so of course some people will disagree with obviously pro-village plays if they can get away with it.
It can't be emphasized enough that puppetting other people's arguments gives no insight into your thoughts about the game and hurts the village when we look through previous days and see no independent thought from people who have flipped.
Stating that someone else says a strategy leans scum means nothing. Say why you think it leans scum. There's six scum so of course some people will disagree with obviously pro-village plays if they can get away with it.
hey this time not posting was because i actually didn't check the thread until BT tagged me, and i first saw that yesterday at 11pmish
anyway i read through the thread so
vegeta claiming: no matter when vegeta claims, as long as it's before lylo it will do exactly the same thing- force either a clear or a 50/50, basically the only question of whether we'd rather have vegeta as a possible target for kills or not- so basically whether we'd rather have a chance to get one of the 6 possible scum targets, or have the 7 possible town be perfectly safe, buu is the same except without the disadvantage of leaving unclaimed and really shouldn't claim rn
cleans only matter if the person cleaned would have likely been lynched otherwise
any sort of coordination while the transporter lives is dumb
wtf was jalmont's post there
i support "don't claim when lynched unless you have info or are an unused reviver,"
lw vs us: both of them don't seem to have any particular reason to push the idea besides believing it's best,
vegeta and buu claiming as pr would be silly enough originally, completely pointless after publicly suggesting it, and sam agreeing with it just makes him look silly and suspicious
asek randfillering before the latest post is weird but meh
us has been v desperate to have a vegeta claim and has decided that his play should be whatever makes it most obvious that it is the most important thing in the world
mrthao aka king has been being fillery but i don't know how much of that i can attribute to scum and how much of it is him just being stupid
as a whole so far i find jalmont, unclesam, asek, tik, king_ slightly more likely than others to be scum(not too different but overall most to least likely)
anyway i read through the thread so
vegeta claiming: no matter when vegeta claims, as long as it's before lylo it will do exactly the same thing- force either a clear or a 50/50, basically the only question of whether we'd rather have vegeta as a possible target for kills or not- so basically whether we'd rather have a chance to get one of the 6 possible scum targets, or have the 7 possible town be perfectly safe, buu is the same except without the disadvantage of leaving unclaimed and really shouldn't claim rn
cleans only matter if the person cleaned would have likely been lynched otherwise
any sort of coordination while the transporter lives is dumb
wtf was jalmont's post there
i support "don't claim when lynched unless you have info or are an unused reviver,"
lw vs us: both of them don't seem to have any particular reason to push the idea besides believing it's best,
vegeta and buu claiming as pr would be silly enough originally, completely pointless after publicly suggesting it, and sam agreeing with it just makes him look silly and suspicious
asek randfillering before the latest post is weird but meh
us has been v desperate to have a vegeta claim and has decided that his play should be whatever makes it most obvious that it is the most important thing in the world
mrthao aka king has been being fillery but i don't know how much of that i can attribute to scum and how much of it is him just being stupid
as a whole so far i find jalmont, unclesam, asek, tik, king_ slightly more likely than others to be scum(not too different but overall most to least likely)
UncleSam
LW is signalling hard af to his android partner lmfao but if you're asking me if I think he's going to kill billy and you should send in a kill on billy too, yeah, that seems legit.
Unvote
Vote Unclesam
I thought you were just making really bad decisions going through meta, but why are you trying differentiate between Android and Mafia play? I think the only team that is focused on the Androids is the mafia, to try and concentrate kills one way in particular. I'm more concerned about you saying 'kill billymills tonight' than lightwolf playing around with auto-correct.
I'd remind everyone the point of this game is primarily to find mafia. Unclesam has been continuously diluting this process with meta talk, trolling with yeti, and ridiculous complaints against Lightwolf.
Androids are not going to give themselves away early. Focus on interactions between two players, focus on strange interactions, quick opinion changes and so forth. Don't expect killers to just out themselves.
Vote Unclesam
I thought you were just making really bad decisions going through meta, but why are you trying differentiate between Android and Mafia play? I think the only team that is focused on the Androids is the mafia, to try and concentrate kills one way in particular. I'm more concerned about you saying 'kill billymills tonight' than lightwolf playing around with auto-correct.
I'd remind everyone the point of this game is primarily to find mafia. Unclesam has been continuously diluting this process with meta talk, trolling with yeti, and ridiculous complaints against Lightwolf.
Androids are not going to give themselves away early. Focus on interactions between two players, focus on strange interactions, quick opinion changes and so forth. Don't expect killers to just out themselves.
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