Dungeons in Pokémon

[Kurona]

approved by Codraroll



​

And not the Mystery kind.

Dungeons in Pokémon have existed as far back as Red and Blue, not quite routes, not quite gyms but nonetheless important areas on your adventure sometimes necessary to traverse, sometimes fun little side things. From mere Bug-Catching in Viridian Forest to hiking Mt. Coronet to catching Cobalion in Mistralton Cave to the Trainer Gauntlet that is every Victory Road but Johto's, it is undeniable these dungeons play a vital part in our adventure.

But what makes a Dungeon actually good and memorable? What makes Hoenn's Petalburg Woods fine but Rock Tunnel leaves us annoyed and feeling like it's a chore? And indeed, what separates a Dungeon from just your normal, everyday route? Sure, Kalos' Terminus Cave is a Cave and not a route, but you still catch Pokémon, find items and battle trainers - what's the difference between it and the Route 18 it lies on?

Following on from that, the criteria I'm putting forward here is anything outside a city with wild Pokémon that is not a route - but is that criteria flawed? Is there anything else I should count? For instance, what would we say about the Distortion World? Is that a dungeon? The various Evil Team HQs feature a large labyrinth with various floors and trainers to battle, do they count?

With many having been explored in all six generations prior and doubtless many to come with Sun and Moon, dungeons are here to stay - so what are your thoughts?

 

[Gabe]

My least favorite dungeons in Pokemon are definitely Johto's Ice Path, Kanto's Rock Tunnel, and Hoenn's Seafloor Cavern. Dull designs, few varieties of pokemon, and overall tediousness. The first two always felt really unnecessary.

My favorites would be Sinnoh's Distortion World & Old Chateau & Kanto's Pokemon Tower because well, I'm a creep.

Generally I think a major essential component of a great dungeon is the importance/coolness of the pokemon it contains and how well it balances being "challenging" or simply plain "annoying as hell."

 

[WaffleTitan]

My favorite dungeons include the distortion world as well, along with the sinnoh victory road, shoal cave, meteor falls (RSE), mount silver, and stark mountain. The final three of these are relatively complicated (for Pokemon) post game dungeons with higher level Pokemon and some sort of boss deep inside the dungeon. I mostly like the distortion world for its cool aesthetics and the sinnoh one for its access to a secondary cave and later a ~secret~ route. And shoal cave, well they have spheal AND snorunt there, sooo...

On the flip side, most early game caves seem a little boring to me, but not altogether unlikable. If we're keeping victory roads in play, I think the XY and ORAS ones are a bit too straightforward, although on the flip side they did look cool.

 

[Karxrida]

My least favorite dungeons in Pokemon are definitely Johto's Ice Path, Kanto's Rock Tunnel, and Hoenn's Seafloor Cavern. Dull designs, few varieties of pokemon, and overall tediousness. The first two always felt really unnecessary.

The Ice Path at least has some kickass music.

A lot of the dungeons tend to blur for me. Like, I can tell them apart and stuff because I've been playing for years, but I can't really think of any that make me think "Yeah, that place was really cool and unique." It doesn't help that many are very safe and standard video game settings, like "cave" and "forest". The main memorable feature tends to be the music that plays in the background, like in the Hoenn Victory Road.

The only ones that really stand out are the Abandoned Ship and Sea Mauville. How many games have an abandoned ship or sea rig where you can just dick around in?

 

[Codraroll]

I agree with Karxrida above, many of the dungeons in Pokémon are quite unimaginative. Having "cave" be one, uniform biome until Crystal is understandable for technical reasons, but not very entertaining to play through. Adding ice caves in subsequent generations was a neat way to bring some variety to caves, beyond what was already done with dark caves. BW and XY expanded the cave concept a bit more, adding several more tilesets and experimenting with a new type of cave in Glittering Cave.

As for the criteria of what serves as dungeons, I'd say a place is a dungeon if the majority of these points are checked:

• Single entrance and exit, or possibly one in each direction (such as Viridian Forest or Ice path). Note exceptions such as the Power Plant and the Trick House, which have a second exit at the very end.
  
• Traversing it should put you through a lot of Pokémon battles, either against trainers or wild Pokémon.
  
• Plot-relevant reason to visit, or should contain its own subplot (which might involve legendary Pokémon).
• Should be impossible to fly out of (this arguably disqualifies the forests).
• Features an element of exploration, not just battles (I mainly put this in here to exclude the Battle Facilities, which otherwise would fulfill all the criteria).

These criteria mean that dungeons can also be found in cities; heck, even Gyms can serve as dungeons according to them. May not be perfect, but the selection of dungeons out there is surprisingly wide, and many of them are man-made. In Gen I alone, you went through an office building, a graveyard tower, a burnt-out mansion, a cruise liner, and an abandoned power plant.

I always liked the non-standard dungeons best. The ones you don't realise are dungeons before you've been plodding around inside them for a while. Abandoned Ship is possibly my favourite, with the remains of the ship still standing, although the lower decks are sunken. Silph Co. is also a dungeon, and a huge one at that. Having you explore a giant office building under lockdown felt strangely intense, and the warp tiles were very disorienting. The Scorched Slab is also an interesting one, in that the dungeon itself is hidden, with no hints of its presence anywhere (maybe except the Town Map). This sort of goes for the Power Plant as well, in that it's quite hard to find and you're not likely to stumble across it without specifically looking for it. For this reason, I also liked Fuego Ironworks, which serves as a very minor dungeon off the beaten track.

 

[lighthouse64]

My favorite dungeon is the sunken temple in Pokemon B/W

It's really nerve wracking because the music is so suspensful, and you only have a limited amount of time before you are forced to the surface.

 

[lucariomaster2]

Dungeons are my single favourite part of the Pokemon games.

I don't mean required dungeons such as Mt. Moon, Ice Path, Victory Road, and Mt. Coronet. I'm talking about places like Cerulean Cave, the Whirl Islands, Sky Pillar, Stark Mountain, and Giant Chasm, to name a few. What do all of these have in common? They're all optional, at least in the games they originally appear in (Sky Pillar is required in Emerald, Whirl Islands in SS, and Giant Chasm in BW2, but they're not required in RS, GS, and BW respectively).

There is nothing forcing you to go through them. You do it solely because you want the adventure and the challenge. And when you get to the end, there is a reward: a Legendary Pokemon that you can battle and try to catch.

This is why I've felt unfulfilled by Gen VI. The closest thing we've had to an optional dungeon is Terminus Cave, which is on the beaten path, accessible in its entirety (minus Zygarde) before completing the story, and filled with low-level Pokemon and Trainers. ORAS is even worse - it has almost every legendary in the game, but they're just... there. Floating in a mysterious portal in completely featureless locations where you just go and battle them. At least Heatran makes you go through the Scorched Slab first. This is also why I've started to care less and less about event legends: nowadays, they're just handed to you with no explanation, no backstory, and no sense of fulfillment. Just a delivery girl who got her hands on a super-rare Mythical Pokemon (how, exactly?) and was told to give it to you. I miss the days of Mystery Gift giving you a rare item like the Member Card or the Old Sea Map, which lets you go to a secret location and battle the Pokemon.

A common complaint that XYORAS gets is the lack of a postgame. You beat the league, complete the Looker Files/Delta Episode, and then... that's it. Unless you're into breeding or battling, you may as well start a new game. Having a few, or even just one, massive and complex dungeon, filled with high-level Pokemon and tough Trainers, with a Legendary at the end, would do wonders for a postgame. Once you get to the legend, you feel like you worked for it, making catching it all the more fun, instead of it being just dropped right in front of you (or worse, straight-up handed over).

This is my one wish for Sun and Moon: that GF brings back difficult, optional dungeons in the postgame (Well, that and a harder main storyline, though I'm not crossing my fingers).

 

[Kurona]

Dungeons are my single favourite part of the Pokemon games.

I don't mean required dungeons such as Mt. Moon, Ice Path, Victory Road, and Mt. Coronet. I'm talking about places like Cerulean Cave, the Whirl Islands, Sky Pillar, Stark Mountain, and Giant Chasm, to name a few. What do all of these have in common? They're all optional, at least in the games they originally appear in (Sky Pillar is required in Emerald, Whirl Islands in SS, and Giant Chasm in BW2, but they're not required in RS, GS, and BW respectively).

There is nothing forcing you to go through them. You do it solely because you want the adventure and the challenge. And when you get to the end, there is a reward: a Legendary Pokemon that you can battle and try to catch.

This is why I've felt unfulfilled by Gen VI. The closest thing we've had to an optional dungeon is Terminus Cave, which is on the beaten path, accessible in its entirety (minus Zygarde) before completing the story, and filled with low-level Pokemon and Trainers. ORAS is even worse - it has almost every legendary in the game, but they're just... there. Floating in a mysterious portal in completely featureless locations where you just go and battle them. At least Heatran makes you go through the Scorched Slab first. This is also why I've started to care less and less about event legends: nowadays, they're just handed to you with no explanation, no backstory, and no sense of fulfillment. Just a delivery girl who got her hands on a super-rare Mythical Pokemon (how, exactly?) and was told to give it to you. I miss the days of Mystery Gift giving you a rare item like the Member Card or the Old Sea Map, which lets you go to a secret location and battle the Pokemon.

A common complaint that XYORAS gets is the lack of a postgame. You beat the league, complete the Looker Files/Delta Episode, and then... that's it. Unless you're into breeding or battling, you may as well start a new game. Having a few, or even just one, massive and complex dungeon, filled with high-level Pokemon and tough Trainers, with a Legendary at the end, would do wonders for a postgame. Once you get to the legend, you feel like you worked for it, making catching it all the more fun, instead of it being just dropped right in front of you (or worse, straight-up handed over).

This is my one wish for Sun and Moon: that GF brings back difficult, optional dungeons in the postgame (Well, that and a harder main storyline, though I'm not crossing my fingers).

Probably a bit early to start talking about things outside the dungeon; but while I agree with everything you said, I think there is one more crucial component to an end-game dungeon - a surrounding area leading up to it.
The post-games of BW, Platinum and FRLG, for example. These are wide sprawling areas with many new Pokémon available, distinct towns and locations, places for battle facilities and other such things; but at the tip of it all is a large, optional dungeon with a legendary at the end - with a suitable backstory connected to these locations.
That's what I feel an endgame dungeon needs. It's all well and good having just a dungeon be there, but it's gonna feel a bit... I dunno, disconnected from everything if it's the only thing and it's just there out of the blue to give you something to do. Putting extra areas before it helps because it's not just exploring a dungeon and reaping it's rewards that can make it great; it's going on a quest to find and get to that dungeon.

 

[WaffleTitan]

Probably a bit early to start talking about things outside the dungeon; but while I agree with everything you said, I think there is one more crucial component to an end-game dungeon - a surrounding area leading up to it.
The post-games of BW, Platinum and FRLG, for example. These are wide sprawling areas with many new Pokémon available, distinct towns and locations, places for battle facilities and other such things; but at the tip of it all is a large, optional dungeon with a legendary at the end - with a suitable backstory connected to these locations.
That's what I feel an endgame dungeon needs. It's all well and good having just a dungeon be there, but it's gonna feel a bit... I dunno, disconnected from everything if it's the only thing and it's just there out of the blue to give you something to do. Putting extra areas before it helps because it's not just exploring a dungeon and reaping it's rewards that can make it great; it's going on a quest to find and get to that dungeon.

I completely agree. With that said I think platinum's postgame has been the only one thus far to really nail an amazing postgame dungeon area. If other games did what platinum did, I can't even begin to imagine...

 

[lucariomaster2]

I completely agree. With that said I think platinum's postgame has been the only one thus far to really nail an amazing postgame dungeon area. If other games did what platinum did, I can't even begin to imagine...

This. Stark Mountain is, in my opinion, the single best dungeon in the entire main series.

0. It's completely optional. It is never referenced during the main game, so the fact that you as the player decide to go to it gives you that sense of adventure, which the newer games just don't have with their much more forced storylines.

1. Before you even get to the dungeon itself, you have to navigate through a huge route that has a ton of unique encounters. It consists of Sinnoh's own ash-falling area (with its own atmosphere, completely different to Route 113), a lot of bike puzzles, and even open pits of lava as you get closer to the cave. And that's not taking into account that you have to travel from either the Survival Area and go through a mountain path, or the Resort Area and fight through a huge desert.

2. Finally, you've gotten to the entrance to Stark Mountain proper. You travel through the initial bit, which isn't too bad, only having a few Strength puzzles, before you get to the main room. And... it's huge. I believe Stark Mountain is the only place in the game where the camera actually zooms out so that you can see more of the area. There are so many paths to take and items to collect that you could conceivably spend upwards of 4 hours there (Source: Spent upwards of 4 hours there when I first played through Diamond). It's incredibly non-linear, unlike many "modern" dungeons that more or less force you through the intended pathway.

3. It's incredibly difficult. Even with Buck accompanying you on your first time through the dungeon, you will have a tough time. The wild encounters exceed level 50, and many Trainers (and there are a lot of them) have actual teams of high-level Pokemon (as well as the occasional level 57 Larvitar, but shhhh). And even if you find the first time through with Buck easy, have fun coming back for Heatran when he's not there to heal you after every battle.

4. The sub-plot of Buck and the Magma Stone. It's a fairly minor detail compared to everything else, but it gives you a reason to go through it. Sure, having a huge ominous volcano with a Legendary in it is great on its own, but you know what's even better? A sidequest that conveys the feeling that even though you've kicked Team Galactic's ass and become the champion, there's still more to do. More importantly, though, it's not central. You're at Stark Mountain to explore, and just team up with Buck because safety in numbers, as opposed to being railroaded through it for the sake of the plot.

5. The atmosphere. Stark Mountain just oozes it. The open lava pools alone give an indicator that you're in for a tough ride, and the mere existence of all of the Trainers shows that this isn't some sealed-off cavern that you're rediscovering, or somewhere that nobody bothers to go for some reason - this is a place where the strongest Trainers in Sinnoh, or even the Pokemon world, come to train and test their skills. It's this dungeon that gives you the feeling that, at last, you stand among the elite.

 

[Kurona]

This. Stark Mountain is, in my opinion, the single best dungeon in the entire main series.

0. It's completely optional. It is never referenced during the main game, so the fact that you as the player decide to go to it gives you that sense of adventure, which the newer games just don't have with their much more forced storylines.

1. Before you even get to the dungeon itself, you have to navigate through a huge route that has a ton of unique encounters. It consists of Sinnoh's own ash-falling area (with its own atmosphere, completely different to Route 113), a lot of bike puzzles, and even open pits of lava as you get closer to the cave. And that's not taking into account that you have to travel from either the Survival Area and go through a mountain path, or the Resort Area and fight through a huge desert.

2. Finally, you've gotten to the entrance to Stark Mountain proper. You travel through the initial bit, which isn't too bad, only having a few Strength puzzles, before you get to the main room. And... it's huge. I believe Stark Mountain is the only place in the games where the camera actually zooms out so that you can see more of the area. There are so many paths to take and items to collect that you could conceivably spend upwards of 4 hours there (Source: Spent upwards of 4 hours there when I first played through Diamond). It's incredibly non-linear, unlike many "modern" dungeons that more or less force you through the intended pathway.

3. It's incredibly difficult. Even with Buck accompanying you on your first time through the dungeon, you will have a tough time. The wild encounters exceed level 50, and many Trainers (and there are a lot of them) have actual teams of high-level Pokemon (as well as the occasional level 57 Larvitar, but shhhh). And even if you find the first time through with Buck easy, have fun coming back for Heatran when he's not there to heal you after every battle.

4. The sub-plot of Buck and the Magma Stone. It's a fairly minor detail compared to everything else, but it gives you a reason to go through it. Sure, having a huge ominous volcano with a Legendary in it is great on its own, but you know what's even better? A sidequest that conveys the feeling that even though you've kicked Team Galactic's ass and become the champion, there's still more to do. More importantly, though, it's not central. You're at Stark Mountain to explore, and just team up with Buck because safety in numbers, as opposed to being railroaded through it for the sake of the plot.

5. The atmosphere. Stark Mountain just oozes it. The open lava pools alone give an indicator that you're in for a tough ride, and the mere existence of all of the Trainers shows that this isn't some sealed-off cavern that you're rediscovering, or somewhere that nobody bothers to go for some reason - this is a place where the strongest Trainers in Sinnoh, or even the Pokemon world, come to train and test their skills. It's this dungeon that gives you the feeling that, at last, you stand among the elite.

I think what I most like about this is that, with many of the features listed - optional, after-game dungeon with a legendary and high-level wild Pokémon, many items to find, you can spend ages in this sprawling maze - along with new features like teaming up, zoomed out camera and trainers... it feels like a natural evolution of Cerulean Cave. It shows progression in the series.

 

[Lady Vader]

I think what I most like about this is that, with many of the features listed - optional, after-game dungeon with a legendary and high-level wild Pokémon, many items to find, you can spend ages in this sprawling maze - along with new features like teaming up, zoomed out camera and trainers... it feels like a natural evolution of Cerulean Cave. It shows progression in the series.

Where as with X and Y, Sea Spirit's Den and Unknown Dungeon is just a room and I found Rock Tunnel and Mt. Moon (both to this day) to be more difficult than Terminus Cave.

 

[lighthouse64]

This. Stark Mountain is, in my opinion, the single best dungeon in the entire main series.

0. It's completely optional. It is never referenced during the main game, so the fact that you as the player decide to go to it gives you that sense of adventure, which the newer games just don't have with their much more forced storylines.

1. Before you even get to the dungeon itself, you have to navigate through a huge route that has a ton of unique encounters. It consists of Sinnoh's own ash-falling area (with its own atmosphere, completely different to Route 113), a lot of bike puzzles, and even open pits of lava as you get closer to the cave. And that's not taking into account that you have to travel from either the Survival Area and go through a mountain path, or the Resort Area and fight through a huge desert.

2. Finally, you've gotten to the entrance to Stark Mountain proper. You travel through the initial bit, which isn't too bad, only having a few Strength puzzles, before you get to the main room. And... it's huge. I believe Stark Mountain is the only place in the game where the camera actually zooms out so that you can see more of the area. There are so many paths to take and items to collect that you could conceivably spend upwards of 4 hours there (Source: Spent upwards of 4 hours there when I first played through Diamond). It's incredibly non-linear, unlike many "modern" dungeons that more or less force you through the intended pathway.

3. It's incredibly difficult. Even with Buck accompanying you on your first time through the dungeon, you will have a tough time. The wild encounters exceed level 50, and many Trainers (and there are a lot of them) have actual teams of high-level Pokemon (as well as the occasional level 57 Larvitar, but shhhh). And even if you find the first time through with Buck easy, have fun coming back for Heatran when he's not there to heal you after every battle.

4. The sub-plot of Buck and the Magma Stone. It's a fairly minor detail compared to everything else, but it gives you a reason to go through it. Sure, having a huge ominous volcano with a Legendary in it is great on its own, but you know what's even better? A sidequest that conveys the feeling that even though you've kicked Team Galactic's ass and become the champion, there's still more to do. More importantly, though, it's not central. You're at Stark Mountain to explore, and just team up with Buck because safety in numbers, as opposed to being railroaded through it for the sake of the plot.

5. The atmosphere. Stark Mountain just oozes it. The open lava pools alone give an indicator that you're in for a tough ride, and the mere existence of all of the Trainers shows that this isn't some sealed-off cavern that you're rediscovering, or somewhere that nobody bothers to go for some reason - this is a place where the strongest Trainers in Sinnoh, or even the Pokemon world, come to train and test their skills. It's this dungeon that gives you the feeling that, at last, you stand among the elite.

Don't forget the ice temple in snowpoint city. That's also an optional dungeon with quite a challenge.

 

[lucariomaster2]

Don't forget the ice temple in snowpoint city. That's also an optional dungeon with quite a challenge.

Snowpoint Temple isn't filled to the brim with Ace Trainers or surrounded by a difficult-to-navigate route.

 

[stage7_4]

I've honestly never been that impressed by "dungeons" in a pokemon game. They always seemed a step down from all the customization and secrets that went into some of the cities like Goldenrod, Castelia, Nimbasa, Mauville, Mossdeep, Lilycove, and Hearthome for example.

But maybe it's just that the technology and mechanics just were there yet to make good dungeons as opposed to good cities, since my favorite dungeon would be the Sea Mauville makeover in ORAS. I think that's the direction pokemon games should go for dungeons, this gigantic optional ruin with lots to explore and a storyline that rewards exploration.

 

[nameless90]

Safari Zone in R / B / Y was my personal nightmare when I was a child: so much areas to explore (both by walking and with the aid of Surf) and so few steps available to do this. So many Pokedollars spent and so low reward....
The Cerulean dungeon (where you find Mewtwo) is really epic because has high-level Pokemon and -after all of them- you encounter the almighty Psychic type. You have to praise to have enough Revives and Full Restore left in your meager bag.

My favourite dungeon is certainly the Distortion World (thanks for this thing Giratina!) because:
(1) is wonderful to walk/surfing in a world which the surroundings can change aesthetically at every step;
(2) there is a mini-puzzle to solve (that one with with Strenght) inside the dungeon;
(3) if you arrive at the end there is a "reward": a difficult fight (not too much, but is exciting) + a difficult catch to accomplish.

 

[lighthouse64]

Snowpoint Temple isn't filled to the brim with Ace Trainers or surrounded by a difficult-to-navigate route.

I meant by navigation.

 

[sneaky.]

A dungeon without trainers is automatically not a good dungeon imo.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

A dungeon without trainers is automatically not a good dungeon imo.

Shoutouts to GSC Victory Road.

In all seriousness, the dungeons in Pokémon are severely underdeveloped compared to what they could be, and it only gets worse now because field moves were all but purged from the game. With no real obstacles, you get Galar Mines.

On the other hand, look at how places like the Seafoam Islands were interesting and well-developed dungeons. An important part of dungeon design is the puzzles, and an important part of puzzle design is being able to actually fail them. This is why Cut is and has always been a horrible field move regardless of HM status and battle function also being aggressively trash.

Also, I'll never forget Gen 7 for actually solving the field move issue with the Pokérides and doing absolutely nothing with them because the game simply doesn't have a single dungeon worth its salt.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I've always hated Rock Tunnel in every single game it's appeared in. Not only does it feel redundant coming so soon Mt Moon, the fact that it only exists to be an arbitrary link between Cerulean and Lavender irritates me. It's a pain in RBYFRLG but it's just truly pointless in GSC - if they had to cut some areas, why not that?

That said, one thing Johto does do well is optional dungeons - Mt Mortar and Dark Cave are both cool little areas you don't have to go into if you don't want. Mt Mortar's various levels make it fun to go back into at different stages of the game. Pinwheel Forest is another cool dungeon I feel is quite underrated. It's not as big as it could be but it has just enough in the way of additional areas to make me look forward to going back to it whenever I play Black or White. But I agree that Stark Mountain is the best dungeon in the series. The fact that you can't get the legendary the first trip through incentivises you to go back but the way the initial trip bars certain areas means that you're not just rushing through to the back room.

There hasn't been a great dungeon since ORAS imo. Another example of Game Freak thinking that kids today have no concentration skills, no doubt.