Elements




Introduction

A.K.A. twash's team V2. This is a team I've been playing with in DPP OU lately. It doesn't utilize anything that can really be defined as anti-metagame, but it's very comfortable to play with and features a couple of somewhat uncommon additions. Although I mostly play BW now, I occasionally like to return to the more balanced 4th Generation with this team.

In-Depth

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Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
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I've been seeing a lot more teams with Starmie leads in this forum lately. People seem to be catching on to how effectively it performs; Starmie begins the battle offensively and can put a lot pressure on opponents. Standard FWG-based teams tend to be universally weak to Starmie, which is able to outspeed and hit a large amount of common Pokemon. Starmie's moveset is optimal for coverage purposes, and Rapid Spin's ability to remove hazards really helps my other team members switch around more safely. Although Starmie is placed in the lead position, I sometimes save it for late-game sweeping after opposing teams have been weakened significantly.

Azelf

Not my favorite lead to see, especially since a lot tend to run U-turn now (I may have helped to popularize 112 SDef CB Azelf). Depending on the player and the set, I may either go for Hydro Pump + Rapid Spin or switch to Gengar. Pretty unpredictable considering the number of viable lead sets it can run.
Machamp
I'm glad these aren't used much any more. I'll either have to sacrifice Starmie or switch in Jirach on the Payback to hopefully flinch it to death. Some people use Psychic on Starmie to get the KO, but I feel it isn't worth limiting Starmie's coverage for an increasingly uncommon lead.
Aerodactyl

In theory, any one of Starmie's attacks + Rapid Spin will take out Aerodactyl and Stealth Rock along with it. However, smart players will Rock Slide for a possible flinch, so I may switch to Jirachi to Iron Head it.
Metagross

Starmie 2HKOs Metagross, so it's usually forced to get up Stealth Rock (which I can spin away later) or retaliate with Earthquake. These leads are put at an offensive disadvantage right from the beginning of a match.
Swampert

Pretty much similar to Metagross.
Infernape

Hydro Pump + Rapid Spin should handle things nicely, seeing as I can survive a Fake Out and a resisted attack. I do need to be wary of Scarf variants with U-turn, though.
Heatran
It's pretty obvious that this won't be staying in, unless it's running Passho for some reason. BKC recommends Ice Beam for incoming Grass switch-ins, which I find to be a good option.
Jirachi

Switch to Heatran on the possible U-turn.
Roserade

I'll probably Ice Beam to hit it down close to its Sash, even though I'll usually have to sacrifice Starmie to Leaf Storm. After that, Jirachi will come in and U-turn to finish it. If my opponent switches, I just need to keep attacking or get up Stealth Rock so that it can't set up.
Hippowdon

Starmie OHKOs Hippowdon without a problem, but it's unfortunately paired with Blissey most of the time.
Starmie

Shaymin for the initial switch into Thunderbolt, then to Jirachi on the Ice Beam to U-turn out. Against better players, I might just Earth Power to catch a Heatran on the switch.
Dragonite

I tend to go for Thunderbolt or even Hydro Pump, as most players will want to save their Dragonite for later.
Gliscor

Either Hydro Pump or Ice Beam works fine.
Tyranitar

I'm pretty sure Hydro Pump won't necessarily KO, so I usually switch to Jirachi to threaten with an Iron Head. I usually U-turn on the switch from there.
Skarmory

Skarmory is extremely unlikely to stay in, so I'll usually Ice Beam to catch a Grass-type or Scarf Flygon.
Forretress

Hydro Pump doesn't OHKO, while Payback does a lot. I'll go to Heatran to threaten it out and set up Stealth Rock.


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Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 36 SAtk / 12 SDef / 216 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Will-O-Wisp
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This started out as a standard ShucaTran, but I soon realized that I had some issues with SubRoost Zapdos (another large and somewhat underrated set in this metagame). As a result, I decided to roll with the TormentTran EV spread for some extra bulk. They allow me to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar while retaining the ability to hit decently hard. I sometimes swap out Shuca for Leftovers, but I find the former helpful for handling Earth Power Shaymin and opposing Heatran. Will-O-Wisp isn't seen on more common Heatran sets, but it allows me to catch threats like Gyarados, Tyranitar, and even Scarf Flygon on the switch. Heatran works as a sponge for some weaker special attacks and manages to remain pretty threatening itself.

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Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
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Suicune has been a mainstay on nearly all my teams. It provides me with a very reliable switch into threats like Heatran and Gyarados. Late-game, Suicune can utilize Calm Mind alongside its considerable bulk to sweep through teams. One thing I really like about Suicune is that it functions as a "parallel" sweeper with Starmie; the two share identical coverage, with the main differences being speed and bulk. The main reason I prefer Suicune over other bulky Waters like Vaporeon is that it works well both offensively and defensively, and doesn't open up an unnecessary Breloom weakness.

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Shaymin @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SAtk / 184 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
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Shaymin is another Pokemon that I make use of quite often. It covers all the bulky Waters that this team would have issues with otherwise. Although the LO sweeper is a good set, I like this Leech Seed variant for its considerable bulk and ability to provide some healing for the team. Shaymin still manages to hit pretty hard with a bit of SAtk investment, especially factoring in Seed Flare's high BP and potential SDef drops. The EVs allow Shaymin to outpace Jolly Lucario so that I can hit it with an Earth Power. Although many of these type of sets feature Protect or Substitute, I utilize a 3-attacks version to ensure I can deal with Heatran and Dragonite. I sometimes miss HP Fire in the last slot for hitting Scizor and Forretress, so I occasionally switch between the two. Other than that, Shaymin is a valuable member that reinforces the team's bulky offensive theme.

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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- U-turn
- Trick
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You will find a Jirachi on nearly every Faladran team, of course. Besides being my personal favorite Pokemon, Jirachi patches up some weaknesses that this team suffers. Some of the main reasons for running Scarf Jirachi as opposed to Scarf Flygon include Trick, more bulk, and the ability to check different threats (Gengar and Lucario come to mind). Iron Head is always helpful for flinch trolling and checking Tyranitar, and Fire Punch covers most Steels decently. Since Heatran and Shaymin both have methods of dealing with Dragonite, I opted for Trick and U-turn instead of Ice Punch. U-turn allows Jirachi to function a bit like Flygon, scouting opposing teams and maintaining offensive momentum. Trick has been generally useful as an emergency method for dealing with bulky stat-uppers. It ensures that I don't lose to things like late-game CM Jirachi or Curselax.

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Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
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Gengar fulfills the sixth team position by adding in crucial immunities to Normal, Fighting, and Ground. The latter two are especially useful, seeing as my team is rather lacking in resistances to those types. Although SubSplit is the standard and remains a very effective set, I prefer to use this MixGar set for its unpredictability and stallbreaking potential. Thunderbolt hits bulky Waters really hard, which helps a lot against people who use something like Vaporeon to check Gengar. With proper double switching, I can occasionally Thunderbolt an opposing Gyarados or Skarmory as well. Explosion is probably the most valuable move on this set; as soon as I eliminate Blissey, Starmie or Suicune can sweep through standard stall a lot more easily. I tend to be very careful about when to explode, hiding my moveset and scouting for Protect or opposing predictions. It helps that Explosion is less common on Gengar, though; some opponents just don't expect it at all. Gengar also works as a powerful sweeper in its own right, as well as a secondary check to SD Lucario.

Conclusion

I haven't had to use this team for anything serious, so of course it's been performing well on the ladder and on Wi-Fi (lol). Like I said, it's been very comfortable to play with and the bulky offensive theme suits my playstyle well. That being said, I'm open to any suggestions that could improve this team in any way.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 36 SAtk / 12 SDef / 216 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Will-O-Wisp

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SAtk / 184 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- U-turn
- Trick

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
 
And here I was getting all pumped thinking that I would be seeing a ponies thread! Seriously aren't there 6 of them exactly? why not thats a great theme!!!!! Anyways I used to run something pretty similar (albeit 6 months ago and with toxic orb jirachi) and it's obviously not very complex and it clearly works so not much to say, I just had to comment because you know I had to. The one thing I don't like (I don't think we'll ever agree on this btw) is Gengar. I know you think SubSplit is trite and annoying but he has other sets besides that awful lo set! I mean thunderbolt, explosion, certainly he has better options? For one I know that you love Icy Wind Lead (<3) so why not try that? I know that Gengar's slot needs to be "the stallbreaker" but if Starmie and Gengar switch slots then starmie fills that role right? Plus LO and no recovery is just no fun, you will NOT be breaking down stall that way. Forry walls you. Plus you like to save Starmie for later against offensive teams and this just kind of helps that right? good deal.

also nitpick but why on earth do you have flamethrower on Heatran? Lava Plume would be a vast improvement and I really don't think you need the 15 extra power from Flamethrower so why not just Lava Plume? The burn chance more than makes up for it, especially because your handle on Dragonite is pretty weak atm. Anyways good team and stuff yeah
 
Haha, there actually are six exactly. I just didn't think they had anything in common with my team members (although I definitely considered the idea).

I will probably keep Gengar since it works, although I'm definitely weaker to stall than I am to offense. I used Lava Plume before Will-O-Wisp made it unnecessary. Flamethrower's extra power is pretty useful as well. Thanks for the suggestions though; you just made this thread 20% cooler.
 
One thing I noticed is that your team is pretty vulnerable to Zapdos.
Nothing resists it, and if it packs HP ground it hits everything super effective except for Gengar. Suicune stands a chance if it already has a CM packed, however..
Swampert and Zapdos together resist just about everything with little prediction, Switching to Zapdos when Shymin is brought out and to Swampert again for Suicune.
Perhaps run Mow Rotom over Gengar with Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt and will-o-wisp? That would cover swampert for a OHKO, as well as disable strong physical attackers like Tyranitar.
Also, you already addressed it, but Machamp can give you a lot of grief. Lead starmie won't see itself using Thunder Bolt much, I'd suggest putting psychic over it?

Probably not the greatest advice around, but..
:)
~Dj.
 
This is just a quick thought but why not add Mixed Sub Gengar over your current set? It catches Bliss, Lax, Empoleon all of guard and you nail them. They can be problematic because of 4 special sweepers.

I would also recommend protect on shaymin because things like scizor will come in once they know you don't have HP Fire and not much on your team enjoys taking U-Turn/Superpower. Protect is just to ease your prediction slightly.

Gengar| Life Orb/ Black Sludge
Hasty|100 ATK|156 SP ATK|252 SPEED
Focus Punch|Substitute|Pain Split|Shadow Ball
 
I agree with Smith about Gengar's questionable stall-breaking abilities; ScarfTar still traps it and Forretress is still going to Payback you in the face. Also, a well-played Breloom can tear you apart; it can come in on Suicune or Shaymin after a teammate has died, and Gengar is your best check - however, he's 2HKO'd by Seed Bomb after Stealth Rock, and you don't have Pain Split to recover your HP. I recommend trying a MixNite in his place.

Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 24 HP / 116 Atk / 136 SAtk / 232 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost

Dragonite is a much more solid check to Breloom - especially because Starmie is very efficient at keeping SR off the field. He is also an arguably more effective stall-breaker. As for the EVs - 232 Spe outruns Modest Tran and all opposing MixNite, 116 Atk KOs Bliss with Superpower after SR, 24 HP gives a bit more bulk as well as a Life Orb number, and the remaining EVs go into SpA for a bonus point. With this change I think the team looks quite solid (and even more similar to twash's because his team had MixMence, heh). Good team and good luck!
 
your team seems like it would have trouble taking powerful specs/orbed thunderbolts, such as from rotom or zapdos. agility lucario doesn't seem like it would need much time with a bit of hazard/chip damage to run through your team either. i dunno how common that is anymore. finally, kingdra seems like it could take advantage of everything except shaymin and gengar to set up a sweep, and all you can really threaten it with is trick. what i would do is put gyarados over suicune. sure, suicune and starmie combined lay the smackdown on fwg teams, but gyarados makes your team much more solid offensively and defensively. right now you're almost entirely walled by blissey. in my experiences, even exploding gengars can't reliably get rid of bold wish/protect blisseys... i would also put protect on shaymin, or perhaps rest instead of seed, so it can take more thunderbolts, and i would put substitute on gengar over thunderbolt, because it just seems a lot more useful in avoiding pursuits, helping in beating blissey, easing prediction, etc and you don't really need thunderbolt to beat on gyarados and skarmory anyway.
 
Dragonite
  • I tend to go for Thunderbolt or even Hydro Pump, as most players will want to save their Dragonite for later.
Gliscor
  • Either Hydro Pump or Ice Beam works fine.
I disagree with both of these. The majority of Dragonites I see in gen4 stay in against Starmies, because Starmie is a huge threat to offensive teams they don't want to risk predicting. If your using it on the PO ladder, I would advise ice beam. Its much safer to hit a switch in with ice beam, than to be killed by a 70% Dragonite. Secondly for Gliscor, they will be either predicting a Hydro pump or an Ice beam. I have never seen anyone stay in against Starmie with Gliscor, even if they did they can't KO with EQ and their SR can be spun away. The most common switch ins are water types to absorb the initial hit, or a Blissey. Thunderbolt is therefore the best option against lead Gliscor. I find these the most reliable moves in terms of risk vs reward.

Now onto the team you seem to have really problems with Snorlax, Blissey and Tyranitar. Snorlax can sweep your team, your only hope is either a one time trick with Jirachi, or flinch hax with Jirachi. Neither is reliable. Blissey is just a pain for your team, able to switch in and cause the death of every pokemon except Jirachi. Tyranitar is just a pain for your team to switch into, Crunch just is a really pain for this team. To solve this, I recommend using Lead Machamp over Lead Starmie. They both serve the same purpose of anti Lead, but Machamp can also beat the 3 mentioned threats. If your don't like machamp, try Harriyama or Gallade. I also think Heatran should have explosion for Suicune, Snorlax, Blissey etc.
 
The only major problem with this team is that you have 5 special attackers and one very weak physical attacker, and it's a scarfer. Since Gengar doesn't have sub, TTar can very easily trap you with pursuit. Specially defensive pokemon like Jirachi, Snorlax, and Ttar will be very tough to bring down. Minor problems are that Jirachi also can't check stuff like Kingdra, Mixnite, or Agiligross to well.

Anyway to fix this I'd just run with SD Scizor over Gengar and ice punch > u-turn on rachi. It checks Kingdra and Meta, and can stall break pretty well too since Shaymin can counter rest talk Rotom. Scizor has the ability to beat most specially defensive pokemon like Ttar, bliss, lax, ect too. It also counters Flygon who can be pretty annoying to take out. Ice punch is much better so that you can beat Nite and pick off Zapdos. Bulky roost scizor with lefties and LO with superpower are both effective sets, with the bulky set better against Kingdra and Meta and the LO set OHKOing Skarm. Bulky SD with 224 Hp / 92 Atk / 176 SpD / 16 Spe is probably best for checking things.
 
I'd agree with BKC's suggestion of MixNite over Gengar, it's more reliable as a stallbreaker and actually provides quite a lot of resistances to the synergy of the team.

Just because I'm anal about EV's though, I altered BKC's spread to gain 3 extra points, one in attack, and two in special attack:
Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 24 HP/232 Spd/252 SpAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk,-SpDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Superpower


That aside, the team is very solid and fits my personal style of play very well.
 

IronBullet

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Hey,

If you're having trouble with Breloom, a Celebi would be an excellent alternative to Shaymin. Plenty of sets are viable. You can stick with Leech Seed, or try out an offensive set. Offensive Celebi and can run through most teams with instant recovery and an insanely powerful Leaf Storm. You can run Earth Power to destroy Heatran and open up a sweep for Jirachi, or Psychic for reliable. HP Fire and Ice both give good coverage along with the other moves.

Not much else to say, this is a pretty solid team. Gl!
 
Not much to say here, because the team is already pretty solid, but the only thing that caught my eye was Starmie running LO and rapid spin. I know that's standard to do that but having rapid spin and LO really decreases starmie's survivability. Expert belt really works well in this situation for two reasons: No recoil and bluffing choice sets. Even though you have Shaymin with leech seed, you're gonna find it hard to switch in.

But other than that this team is great, keep up the awesome work
 

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