Emotional Warfare

[Pippy]

Emotional Warfare

Emotional warfare is a highly unexplored area of Pokemon. However, emotions can have a huge affect on a battle. Many Pokemon can annoy the living you know what. *out of people, and this can cause many players to become "blinded by rage". Anger can cause many players to lose focus, make quick, rash decisions, and sometimes go on tilt. Another thing that some players struggle with is impatience or frustration (or at least I do) Again, these things can cause a lose of focus and poor decisions to just "get it over with". So, how do these emotions come about in a game that's supposed to be fun? Normally, these things happen naturally due to hax or stall, but there are Asome Pokemon who's purpose in life is to cause these emotions, and that's mostly what we're here for. So, let's talk about this "emotional warfare" when:

You are using it: Some people like to include Pokemon that induce rage and cause the opponent to not play their best. I don't think we could talk about rage inducing Pokemon without talking about Jirachi. Jirachi is probably the most annoying Pokemon in the game thanks to its ability, Serene Grace, and the power to abuse it. Not only does Jirachi have Iron Head, which has a 60% flinch rate on her, but she also has Body Slam and even Thunder (which both have a 60% para rate) to form the dreaded paraflinch combo. This can be very frustrating for the opponent, as if Jirachi paralyses you, it usually comes down to lady luck to determine the victor. I think we all know how frustrating it is when lady luck rules in Jirachi's favor. Now, back to this thread. What I'd like to see discussed here is:
-What Pokemon have you found effective to hurt your opponent psychological?
-Is psycological warfare an effective technique to defeat your opponent?*
-Are moves/Pokemon designed to annoy worth the spot over more reliable, tried and true strategies?

Your opponent is using it: So, what if your opponent is now the one with the annoying Pokemon? What do you do? This is a very unexplored topic as far as I know, but I'll talk briefly about it as best I can. The trick here is to keep your cool. If you let your opponent get the best of you emotionally, the odds are you're going to lose since you'll start making poor choices. A good idea is to remember its just a game. It's. It worth getting worked up about. Another thing to worry about is patience. This is particularly important when playing against stall. Unfortunately, I don't know any tricks to this, but all the more reason to discuss. So, what I'd like to see answered here is:
-How do you keep your cool even in frustrating conditions?
-How do remain patient and calm when playing stall?

Remember, this is not a place to complain about hax.*

That's all I have to say, so now it's your turn. Have at it! :)

 

[BattleStar]

Don't we have a whole article like this available on the site?http://www.smogon.com/bw/articles/bw_psychological_warfare

Anyways, I believe this is really all hyped up. Sure this plays a role in battles but I think this is on a fine line on just plain old luck.

 

[marilli]

phycology: the branch of botany dealing with algae

So yeah... maybe Whimsicott can pass for algae?

 

[Axmaster68]

Still, there should be a discussion thread for it, if there is a respectable article (which that link you posted happens to contain). I think this should be a fantastic thread to discuss the psycological aspect of the competitive aspects of Pokemon itself.

 

[BattleStar]

lol @ Amarillo.

Also I don't know if it's me but these "Rage" inducing Pokemon never got to me. It's not like they are non-counterable or a great deal of stall and annoyance has to occur. If you have a prepared team this is no problem. Beside Jirachi and others are common so it's not like people don't expect these things.

 

[Nova]

Gotta mention Sand Veil and Snow Cloak as being extremely annoying.

 

[Anchormon92]

phycology: the branch of botany dealing with algae

So yeah... maybe Whimsicott can pass for algae?

My thoughts exactly. Makes the OP very enjoyable :)

I'm not quite sure how to fit "psychological warfare" into a strategy. Yes, stall and the Serene Grace users are very different from "ordinary" Pokemon, but it should just be a different style for which your team has to prepare. Anger and impatience are things that players just need to learn how to control, just like hubris when winning. I just had a match where my Sigilyph was set up to sweep, my opponent said gg, and his Gyarados flinched me twice in a row before I could kill it. After that, I was sure I had lost until I got an Ice Beam Freeze. Then he was able to eek out a narrow victory due to my Life Orb recoil. The game is not over until all 6 Pokemon are down or someone quits (which people do far too often). Until that point, you need to stay focused and try to make the best play every turn. There's nothing wrong with switching up your strategy as you go, especially if it seems that your current strategy isn't working. You don't want to have to rely on luck to bring victories, but sometimes that's exactly what you need. Just keep tweaking the team until you don't have any gaping weaknesses

To answer the OP:

• Just about any Pokemon that you can get a few turns of set-up on can induce rage-quits. As I mentioned, I've been working with Sigilyph, and once it takes down one or two Pokemon, the opponent thinks he's finished, when all it takes is a crit to take it down (I'm a strong believer in statistics, but it sure does feel like he gets more hax than other Pokes lol). Baton Pass and Stall can be overwhelming when played well, but again, it only takes some luck at the right time to break through. Finally, something like Volt-Turn can be rage-inducing, as you never quite feel like you have the matchup you want, but with a good prediction or two and some entry hazards, it can be defeated.
  
• Every Pokemon needs a job, so if "annoying" moves are part of it's job (Haxrachi), then yes, they are valuable. I wouldn't just throw Confuse Ray on Gengar unless you're trying to run an unexpected Parafusion set or something. Gengar is probably not the best Pokemon for this job, but if you really want Gengar to confuse things, find a set that accomplishes that in an efficient way, rather than just tacking it onto an existing set.
  
  
• Like you said with regard to playing against "annoying" things, you just have to keep your cool and remember that you're playing a game. That's not to say you shouldn't take it seriously. Just don't start throwing things when a rogue Ice Beam freezes your only remaining answer to Starmie. There will be other matches. Just learn from each one and remain as cool as you can

I actually found it really interesting when I was first learning Pokemon that there was a whole category of "annoyers" to go with "tanks", "walls", "sweepers", etc. I've never talked to anyone who said, "You know, your team would be great if you just added an annoyer to it". I'd be interested to hear what others feel the competitive definition of "annoyer" is. It might actually be where this thread is trying to go.

TL;DR - The psychological aspect of Pokemon is a real part of the game, but I don't know that it can really be controlled. In the end, the best way to both use it and prevent yourself from falling victim to it is to treat every situation in the same manner emotionally. It's much more of a trainer thing than a Pokemon thing.

 

[HardCore]

I like this topic for several reasons. The first would be because I just started using Gliscor as a Pokemon that can play the same role every battle just as effectively. It is the back bone of my team sometimes and stalls for quite some time. Forcing the opponent's team to slowly dwindle into nothingness. I use the first set here, which is Scorpion's Sting. This set is extremely effective but on thing I do take notice to is how it contorts the opponents play. Immediately they rush to break Gliscor's Substitute, which could already be the beginning of PP or Toxic stall. This set causes several players to rage quit like other aggravating Pokemon you refereed to in this thread Pippy. It's an excellent strategy to use with the Pokemon that seem to have been made for it. Although it could be considered cheap this type of play style still depends on the build up of your team and for most Pokemon doesn't abuse luck.

The best way to deal with Pokemon of the sort isn't to except defeat or even doubt your skills. Precautionary measures are the only steps that can really be taken to avoid being stalled or slowly killed by these Pokemon completely with little thought. They all have one similarity, which is they are specialize in bulkiness as a whole, defense, or special defense. Once you assume that the opponent will switch to the opressor predict well or forever hold your peace. (This is only in a situation where your team doesn't have counters to such annoying Pokemon.)
If all goes wrong don't just rage quit until you at least say gg.
I like this topic a lot good job. I'd like to see more posts that contain high quality opinions!

 

[Challenger]

I think good players won't care about annoying tactics. Anyone who rages in pokemon.... well, let's just leave that alone.


Oh, and I can't help it. Psychological.

 

[tangramman]

"Mindgames cannot really be defined; there are infinite variables as to how mindgames works. It's more that just "tricking your opponent into being where you want them". It's an application of technical skill, mixed with predictions of how your opponent will react. It begins to be less of a prediction, and more of a manipulation of your opponent." - G-Reg

Rage-inducing sets are a small part of psychological warfare, as the article points out. Many fighting game players say that, at the highest level of play, everything is random, nothing is predictable. Obviously, using Explosion against a Ghost-type isn't random, it's just dumb, but by doing things that set your opponent off tilt and constantly guessing your next move instead of the other way around is a good start to winning. Like Anchorman said, it's a trainer thing, not a Pokemon thing.

 

[Pippy]

Ok, here we go.

@BS 1st post: That article isn't really going where this is going. This is more about emotions, whereas that is more about mind games and such. (although that would be good topic too. I might make a thread for that later)

@Armarillo: Lol. Will fix.

@BS 2nd post: When they are doing what they do, do you not get annoyed? If you don't, great! Tells us how.

@Anchorman: Great post. Not much I have to say since I agree with most of it. However, your comment about it being a trainer thing and not a Pokemon thing I disagree with. Although it does vary by trainer (like many things) it can have a huge effect on the battle, and therefore is a bit of a Pokemon thing.

@Hardcore: Agreed

@Challenger: Although good players tend to not let things get to them, many players do. That's what we're here for.

 

[Anchormon92]

@Pippy: Nice job on correcting the OP. The title and the second question under "You are using it" are still missing an "h", but other than that, I think you're good.

As for the trainer vs. Pokemon argument, I think we might be on the same wavelength. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. For instance, a lot of people will go for the obvious moves early on in games, progressively getting riskier until the game is over. You could use this to your advantage by making predictions in the beginning and being wary of the opponent's predictions later on, but this can be quite risky, which is why most stick to safe moves in the beginning.

Rage-inducing sets are a small part of psychological warfare, as the article points out. Many fighting game players say that, at the highest level of play, everything is random, nothing is predictable. Obviously, using Explosion against a Ghost-type isn't random, it's just dumb, but by doing things that set your opponent off tilt and constantly guessing your next move instead of the other way around is a good start to winning. Like Anchorman said, it's a trainer thing, not a Pokemon thing.

I love this quote, especially the bold part. I was recently in a really fun battle with a Life Orb Starmie and a Trace Porygon2 against an Aromatherapy Shaymin and a Jellicent with Taunt, Toxic, Scald, and Recover. There was so much switching around, as 3 of those Pokemon had Recover, 2 had Toxic, 2 had Natural Cure, and Porygon2 could Trace Natural Cure or Water Absorb. Both my Pokemon had Bolt-Beam, but neither was strong enough to OHKO. It came down to predictions, and it was so fun. With situations like that, it comes down to what Pokemon started with for most of us: picking your first starter Pokemon. It's a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. If you think someone will play Rock, you'll want to play Paper. But what if they think you'll do that? Then you'll want to play Rock to counter their Scissors. But what if they predict that? At the highest level, it's as close to random as you'll get.

Now, most Pokemon battles are much more than a battle of Rock, Paper, Scissors. But there are situations where it boils down to that. The most recent warstory (The Alpha Stages) had a moment like that. I suppose you could get a "feel" for how risky your opponent likes to play as the match goes on, which could aid you in the prediction games.

The Rock, Paper, Scissors has very little to do with the Pokemon involved. It's all about what each trainer is thinking the other will do. And that can be extrapolated to the battle as a whole. One way that Pokemon can impose the psychological warfare is through unexpected sets. For example, it seems Expert Belts are gaining popularity on commonly Choiced Pokemon to bluff the Choice item and take down at least two Pokemon rather than being forced out after the first. Perhaps using an offensive Jellicent or Gastrodon can nab a few surprise KOs. Moves like Magic Coat can also turn the tides in a battle. However, all these changes are a bit gimmicky and will only be surprising once. As I said in the first post, if you can work these surprises into your team efficiently so that they're not just gimmicks, all the better. Those are the only ways I see the actual Pokemon playing the mind games though. Everything else seems like either "hax" (Jirachi isn't exactly hax; it's just exploiting probability) or something that has to come from the trainer's mind rather than the Pokemon.

 

[Stratos]

I think emotional warfare (psychological is really the wrong word for this topic) is much more likely to be successful in ladder play than in tournaments, and that is why not many really serious players take time to discuss the topic. See, in tournaments, the goal is to win. When you're focused on winning, emotions tend to take a back seat to logic, and you think more clearly. With ladder play, there's a range of other goals, and winning is very rarely the objective of people on the ladder. Therefore, it's not uncommon for people to decide that however many points they lose is far worth the amount of time and frustration they save. Testing a new set/team, playing for fun, or even when trying to ladder, it's often easier to take the loss and move on to someone less dickish in their playstyle.

 

[complete legitimacy]

One way you can attempt psychological warfare is to use things that make the opponent seem like they'll never win, even if they have a decent chance. For example, Pokemon with Regenerator like Slowbro and Tangrowth can give the impression that you can never kill them.

Another good way to get inside your opponent's head is to keep switching. Having multiple counters to same thing is great, becuase if you send in one thing to take the hit, chances are the next time they will predict the switch. If you switch to something else, you give the illusion of unpredictability, and that is always helpful.

 

[ZcX]

Psychological playing is great but it doesnt bring you an overwhelming advantage over your opponent, at most it will make rage quit your opponent and give you an easy win, however this may only work with novice or impatient players. Of course just if your lucky.

And maybe another way to abuse those emotions is to control by making him to think of you as an idiot. That way he may not take you seriously.

Also trying to make a strategy based on this, is not reliable and most of the time you dont need to make your opponent doubt of himself because "annoying" and flinching works pretty well.

And you wrote wrong psychological in the title.

 

[BattleStar]

This is indeed more Emotional "warfare" rather than the misleading title.

However emotions really play no true role in competitive Pokemon, only as much as you give it. Sure Jirachi continual hax for 16 turns can be annoying but I don't start freaking out. Like I said there are several counters of Gliscor and Jirachi. This "emotional " tactics really is just taking advantage of hax and luck.

 

[Pippy]

@Pwnemon: True. However, the part about the ladder is where this comes in, as if you anger your opponent, he might rage quit and give you a free win. And about the title, I'll change it.

@legitamicy: Interesting idea. I could see that being annoying, as that's kind of what facing stall is like.

@ZcX: Again interesting idea. The only problem is that if your opponent doesn't fall for it your in bad shape since acting like an idiot means you just did something stupid.

@BS: How do you limit emotions control? That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Jimera0]

Ah, this is definitely a huge factor for playing competitive Pokemon. If you can get your opponent to make mistakes or flat out quit through anger then that's good for you.

Personally, I find it much more important to avoid falling victim to this than to be able to utilize it yourself, especially at higher levels of play. If you're low on the ladder, you can bet that emotions are going to play a huge role in who wins and loses, but as you get higher up it matters less and less. Why is that? Simple; players who let their emotions get the best of them don't win consistently enough to get high up on the ladder most of the time, so once you get up there you'll find emotion plays little into the fight.

As such, there's no real need to master manipulating the emotions of your opponent since the only people who will fall for it are easy enough to beat without it anyway. Instead you must try to master the art of staying calm, because that is what really matters as you get higher on the ladder and pressure builds. The first key is to notice when you're getting upset. Only then can you stop it. You have to be careful not to become too constantly aware of how you're feeling though, or you might lose your concentration on the match. After that you need to be able to calm yourself down, a process which is different for everyone. There's no magic bullet for these things; it just takes practice. It's well worth mastering though, not just for Pokemon but for life in general. Being able to keep your emotions from controlling your judgement is a life skill, not just a game skill.

 

[doughboy]

Alright if you really want to make your opponent rage, you have to make them feel like they have no control over the game; that it is completely out of their hands. This core does that:

Wobbuffet (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Encore
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Safeguard

Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Hypnosis
- Perish Song
- Protect

Politoed was chosen because he is by far the most used perish song abuser. The way it works is to Perish Song on a threat, the best being a slow wall. After you Perish Song, you switch out into Wobbufett. If your Wobbufett can Encore the opposing pokemon on a set-up move, or the opposing pokemon doesn't have a super effective move congratulations! When that is done, you have taken down an opposing Pokemon guaranteed. This tactic is especially useful for taking apart defensive cores that might otherwise give you trouble. This strategy is made even more effective by Perish Song+U-turn Celebi. With U-turn, you can know for sure that your opponent pokemon will be in to stay trapped.

Your opponents reaction? Even the most apathetic opponents will feel annoyance as they see their pokes HP go to zero. Others? They will be clamoring to get Wobbufett banned as they rage quit (I can understand :p ).

It's well worth mastering though, not just for Pokemon but for life in general. Being able to keep your emotions from controlling your judgement is a life skill, not just a game skill.

Agreed, emotions clouding your judgement can lead to some negative decisions. You should always try to cool off and wait before a big decision if you ever feel angry.

 

[Metal Bagon]

-What Pokemon have you found effective to hurt your opponent psychological?
-Is psycological warfare an effective technique to defeat your opponent?*

Answer to question 1, Blissey.

I'm currently running users stall and in one of my matches it was down to my wish-blissey with Wish-protect-S-toss-rocks. I had rocks up earlier so I just kept stalling out against his Arceus-Dark with the other three moves. It had recover so he could have eventually out stalled my Blissey but my opponent got impatient and was probably raging on his end so he switched to his Groundon (I think it was scarfed because it was locked into a move but wasn't doing nearly enough to Blissey. The thing, I had toxic spikes.

Thanks to that I eventually managed to outstall him for the win. So impatience would be one of main points in psychological and emotional warfare (along with a bit of rage I guess).

As for question 2 I'll have a shorter answer.

I think stall is the best for emotional warfare because lat time I checked, annoyance is an emotion. The reason I've started using stall in the first place was because i was so annoyed with it and my opponents annoyance often helps me come home with the win.

 

[Aeromence]

Mynism's SubToxic Tenta set. nuff said

 

[Jimera0]

Mynism's SubToxic Tenta set. nuff said

Oh god, I just fought that damn thing not an hour ago. Wasted dozens of turns hammering away at it's subs and protects. The really funny thing though was that after he paralyzed my Conkledurr he couldn't touch it with it, so all he could do was sit there while I boosted to insane heights. He ragequit of course, though honestly there was very little chance of him winning (barring some seriously parahax) as the rest of his team was easily OHKO'd by Conkledurr (well anything is OHKO'd by a +6 Conkeldurr to be fair). But I think it's a nice example of how you can turn the annoyance tables around if you keep your wits about you. Patience is the key to dealing with these sorts of threats. It also goes to show you should pack an attacking move stronger than Rapid Spin if you don't want to be a sitting duck.

 

[haunter]

Interesting topic. I think that emotional warfare plays a very little role into a competitive environment and that team building and playing skills determine the outcome of the battle most of the time, but putting pressure on your opponent can as well result into them making mistakes or just not playing at their best. To address your points:

-What Pokemon have you found effective to hurt your opponent psychological?

Sand Veil Substitute\Swords Dance Gliscor with sandstorm support can be extremely frustrating to take down if your opponent relys on already inaccurate moves, such as Rotom's hydro pump, to beat it.

Substitute\Body Slam\Iron Head Jirachi is another one that can make your opponent rage after they can't attack for 4-5 consecutive turns.

In UU, Prankster Sableye with Will o Wisp\Taunt\Recover\Foul Play is a real pain if your team lacks a fire type or strong special attackers.

-Is psycological warfare an effective technique to defeat your opponent?*

I would say that it's effective but only if you get a favourable team match up. If your opponent happens to have dedicated counters for your pressure-inducing strategies then you'll likely lose your psycological weapon before the battle even begins.

-Are moves/Pokemon designed to annoy worth the spot over more reliable, tried and true strategies?

I'd say that strategies meant to annoy can be defined reliable and true. Much like other strategies their success depends on several factors such as the make up of your opponent's team.

-How do you keep your cool even in frustrating conditions?

Just try to not make moves hastily. Long term thinking usually pays off unless you get an incredible amount of bad luck and\or have a terrible team match up disadvantage.

-How do remain patient and calm when playing stall?

Same as above. It's all a matter of self-control.

 

[??????]

Confuse Ray Tentacruel...I cause so many ragequits.

 

[Nix_Hex]

Rage quits are the worst result of emotional warfare. My worst habit is cursing after a bit of adverse hax and ragequitting during situations that I'm not sure I can handle. If I'm extremely shaken after losing to terrible hax, I will bring the passive aggression with a "gg" (with the quotes). There have been other instances of being in a position like that then making the best out of the situation, taking a deep breath, and plan a new strategy.

Be careful with your emotions. If not, you could end up flipping out and and doing something drastic, especially in a position of authority, as we saw with SOMALIA.