Empoleon (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

Status
Not open for further replies.

hyperbeem

is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Empoleon_Animation6887025414-iaza.gif

Empoleon Pokedex

[Overview]

  • Empoleon can destroy unprepared teams with the proper set up.
  • Empoleon maintains its offensive presence with great coverage, while still having the bulk to capitalize on its resistances to set up.
  • Empoleon still has the ability to run physical and mixed sets to destroy counters.
[SET]
Name: Agility SubPetaya
Move 1: Agility
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Surf / Hydro Pump
Move 4: Ice Beam / Grass Knot
Item: Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Modest
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe

Set Comments:
<p>Empoleon's decent bulk combined with an excellent 12 resistances including ones to Bullet Punch and Ice moves easily allow for set up. Use Agility as your opponent switches to a counter; then proceed to Substitute until Petaya Berry activates. If possible, try to maintain your Substitute as otherwise the common Mach Punches from Kojondo and Roopushin will end your sweep. Torrent, STAB, and Petaya berry combine to make Surf an almost unstoppable attack from 353 Special Attack, while Hydro Pump annihilates most of OU. Adding rain to the mix gives great power to Empoleon. </p>

<p>Toxic Spikes are vital to let Empoleon beat Blissey and Vaporeon, as long as they don't have Seismic Toss and Hidden Power Electric, respectively. Tentacruel easily dispatches of this Empoleon though. Stealth Rock is great to put most Grass types like Celebi within Ice Beam's KO range. Maintaining a Substitute is vital to prevent elimination by Kojondo and Roopushin.</p>
Additional Comments:
<p>The EV spread provided ensures 312 HP, and since this is divisible by four, three Substitutes are always enough to activate the Petaya Berry. Coincidentally, Empoleon hits 434 Speed after an Agility, just enough to outspeed scarfed base 95 Pokemon. Special Attack is maximized, though you can add bulk if set-up is an issue otherwise.</p>
<p>Politoed's rain support makes Surf ridiculously powerful after set up. An additional 1.5x boost along with Petaya Berry lets Empoleon deal serious damage to even Blissey. Also, Tyrannitar makes a great partner, Sandstorm can wear down Empoleon's counters, and Blissey and Tentacruel are taken care of by Earthquake and Pursuit. Ice Beam is recommended over Grass Knot if to take out grass types and Salamence, but water-types may cause issues. The choice depends on what your team can handle. </p>[SET]
Name: SD Jet
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Aqua Jet
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Drill Peck
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

Set Comments:

  • Swords Dance is moderately unpredictable on Empoleon, so surprise value may net him a Swords Dance when common counters, such as Blissey, switch in.
  • 894 Attack is quite devastating with a priority move, especially with easy set up against Bullet Punch
  • Blissey and Tentacruel are easily wiped out by Earthquakes while Drill Peck covers Grass types.
  • Torrent is a better ability than Competitive Spirit because stat-reducing moves are quite rare, and Torrent provides great power for Aqua Jet.
  • Stealth Rock prevents Dragonite and Gyarados from walling you.
Additional Comments

  • Drill Pecks OHKOs most Mach Punch users but be wary of them.
  • A useful partner is Celebi, who can take Earthquakes and Mach Punches, while spreading paralysis to aid Empoleon's sweep, while also absorbing Electric attacks.
  • Stealth Rock users greatly aid against Gyarados.
[Team Options]

  • Entry hazards help nearly all sets because offensively, Empoleon needs hazards to hinder or wear down counters, while most defensive teams need hazards anyways.
  • Celebi makes a great partner with its excellent synergy and stats to take Mach Punches that can end Empoleon.
  • Ghosts like Shandera also take Mach Punches and can use powerful special attacks.
  • Rain support is great for powering up Surf and Aqua Jet, while Sandstorm can wear down Blissey and Tentacruel.
[Counters]

  • Tentacruel and Blissey completely wall Empoleon, and Tentacruel can absorb Toxic Spikes, the only way to defeat Blissey.
  • Mach Punch users can quickly end a SubPetaya sweep and common Fighting attacks generally end Empoleon from the likes of Kojondo and Roopushin.
  • Earthquake, a common attack, is devastating to Empoleon.
[Dream World]

  • Empoleon's Dream World ability, Competitive Spirit, raises Attack by 2 stages when stats are lowered.
  • Generally Torrent is better on Empoleon, however on physical sets the ability may be useful against Intimidate users, though it is not recommended.
 
I always found Swords Dance Empoleon fun to use, especially when the opponent switches in Blissey or Tentacruel. Maybe you should add that in, or at least mention it in the Other Options section.
 
Y'know I think Empoleon's capable of doing just for than SubPetaya sweeping. It can run defensive sets and be a consistent defensive threat without being dead weight. Mind the Breloom and Roopushin.
 
I once saw an agility set and it worked marvolously.

Aglility
Waterfall
Sub
Metal claw

It worked Great on my weakened team
Not sure about the ev's as I was on the receiving end of this set
 
haydenboyter said:
I once saw an agility set and it worked marvolously.

Aglility
Waterfall
Sub
Metal claw

It worked Great on my weakened team
Not sure about the ev's as I was on the receiving end of this set
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree with this set due to some issues with it. What first caught my eye was Metal Claw; why? Why use Metal Claw out of all things besides the completely obligatory and better Return or Earthquake? Why not use Steel Wing, which is almost better in every way, in comparison to Metal Claw, and yet its Steel typing sucks. This set is also relying on Empoleon's physical power power, which is subpar compared to the likes of DD or Rain Kingdra and other speed boosting sweepers, such as Blaziken and Terakion.

I assume the set has no specific EVs; physically oriented. I'm also not very sure about the placement of Substitute, given it dondoesn't have a pinch berry in there. I also assume that the opponent who used this was horrible, whether it was in the 5th or 4th generation.
 
haydenboyter said:
I once saw an agility set and it worked marvolously.

Aglility
Waterfall
Sub
Metal claw

It worked Great on my weakened team
Not sure about the ev's as I was on the receiving end of this set
Click to expand...
What did you use? Caterpie, Magikarp, Burmy, Happiny, Snorunt and Sunkern?

Yet Agility is a good move, his attack sucks without a boost.

Agility with three special moves is cool, though. Agility + Surf + Ice Beam + Grass Knot is perfectly usable. Just doesn't have the raw power of the SubPetaya set.
 
On topic, I think Agility + 3 Special Attacks is perfectly acceptable because of that sexy Special Attack, and currently, Empoleon has a few other options worth mention. Hopefully some sweeper such like Kerudio or Starmie don't stop Agility Empoleon from being such an availably good surprise set.
 
This is missing two important sets.

One is SD Aqua Jet, because even in this gen this is still somewhat viable.

Another is the Anti-Lead set because This guy can OHKO Hippowdon and set up rocks, as well as have priority for focus sash users.

It doesn't matter that Agility SubPetaya is a better set, these other options are still viable.
 
SD Aqua Jet is perfectly viable at the moment, particularly since it lets him pick off Doryuuzu, Randorosu and similar.
 
Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Torrent
252 SpAtk / 108 Spe / 148 HP
Modest

Hydro Pump / Surf
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Hidden Power Fire
 
How about Empoleon's support set (taken from its 4th gen analysis)?
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Stealth Rock
-Yawn/Roar/Knock Off
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/92 SpD/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
 
PlatinumDude said:
How about Empoleon's support set (taken from its 4th gen analysis)?
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Stealth Rock
-Yawn/Roar/Knock Off
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/92 SpD/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Click to expand...

This might need a little tweaking to adapt to a new metagame, though it's a bit too early to determine what's a legitimate top threat and what's not. Other than that, the set looks cool, the moves are fine, but it's a matter of adaption.

Perhaps I'll take a look at Empoleon's moves soon and see what new options it offers.
 
Boiling Water is about it for notable new moves; the new physical moves are inferior.

Of some note, however, is its new ability from the DW - the one that raises Attack by two every time an enemy inflicts a stat drop on him. Could have quite a bit of use for a Swords Dance set. Swords Dance+Aqua Jet+Earthquake+Drill Peck ain't too bad at all. I mean, Waterfall is a good option, but Aqua Jet is a good STAB and Drill Peck lets you wreck Robushin and Machamp with a +2, while hitting for fairly good neutral damage with EQ and AJ.
 
iamfanboy said:
Boiling Water is about it for notable new moves; the new physical moves are inferior.

Of some note, however, is its new ability from the DW - the one that raises Attack by two every time an enemy inflicts a stat drop on him. Could have quite a bit of use for a Swords Dance set. Swords Dance+Aqua Jet+Earthquake+Drill Peck ain't too bad at all. I mean, Waterfall is a good option, but Aqua Jet is a good STAB and Drill Peck lets you wreck Robushin and Machamp with a +2, while hitting for fairly good neutral damage with EQ and AJ.
Click to expand...

an SD set with Aqua Jet, Earthquake and Drill Peck with a balloon is an idea. One if it's biggest pro's is being an incredible counter to Doryuuzu. It can safely come in on Earthquake while it resists Rock Slide, X-Scissor & Return. STAB Aqua Jet should OHKO Doryuuzu while Drill Peck covers fighting types like Breloom, Roobushin and Machamp. Earthquake is indeed good for neutral damage and for hitting steel types like Magnezone and Metagross.
 
BubaOReally? said:
Empoleon is a good poke, but with the rise of fighting types in the meta-game (and the returning fighters) i don't think we will be seeing a lot of Empoleon.
Click to expand...
Or rather, he needs to change - that's one reason why I think a Swords Dance set based around Aqua Jet+EQ+Drill Peck is a sure winner, because it can KO any fighting types that switch in, and it's bulky enough to take a Mach Punch and faster than most of the new fighting types, so if they try to stat up on him he'll take 'em out with the Peck. And especially with all the new popular pokes weak to water...

Or will he be able to? Dangit, I need a good stat calculator to see if Adamant, Life Orb, and +2 Drill Peck will break through a Roobushin.

Subpetaya is gonna be less popular because a Roobushin will just Bulk up on him and then OHKO when the Petaya activates with Mach Punch, and Agility+3 moves... well, that will depend on whether or not a Life Orb Surf can KO any of its new counters.
 
SsAaVv said:
  • Torrent is a better ability than Competitive Spirit because stat-reducing moves are quite rare, and Torrent provides great power for Aqua Jet.
Click to expand...

Competitive Spirit might be worth a shot considering it turns intimidate in a +1 instead of a -1 for Empoleon.
 
A supportive Empoleon really needs to be added

Empoleon@Leftovers
Calm
Torrent
252 Hp/160 Def/92 Sp.Def/4 Spd
-surf
-ice beam
-grass knot
-Yawn

THE most used Empoleon set on PO for a reason, still useful to many teams due to its typing and bulk, and offers some very attractive resistances for sandstorm teams. Also the EV's are fine in for the current meta game, it surprises everyone with its bulk, one of the most impressive things about the EV's are the ability to sponge many physical hits, but still be able to take Borutorosu's STAB timid Thunderbolt.
 
as Gebloth said, Empoleon is extremely bulky and useful this generation to take hits from the likes of Shandera and Sazandora. here is the move proficient set IMO:


Empoleon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 220 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Boil Over
- Stealth Rock
- Grass Knot
- Roar

EVd to not be 2HKOd by Shandera's Fire Blast.
 
894 Atk on the SD Jet set? You should probably mention that this is after two Swords Dances, which Empoleon can afford since the first switch-in is normally a special wall.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top