MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
The last time that Evasion Clause was discussed, it went nowhere. Now that the OU metagame has effectively settled, and we are now placing things like Scald under legitimate scrutiny, discussion of evasion increasing/accuracy lowering elements may prove more relevant.
Elements in Question (in order of relevancy): Brightpowder, Lax Incense, Sand Veil, Snow Cloak, Sand Attack (+clones), and moves with a secondary effect of lowering accuracy or increasing evasion.
I am strongly in favor of a universal Brightpowder/Lax Incense ban. Sand Veil is debatable. The rest are fairly irrelevant, in my opinion. (Note that this is only considering the OU metagame, bar the items)
What do we currently prohibit? Most relevantly, Double Team and Minimize. I do not think that we can argue that any of these elements are abhorrently inconsistent when we have universally banned Double Team. It, on average, has less than a 10% chance of causing a legitimate miss (the 75% chance the turn that they use it does not count, as the opponent wasted that turn using Double Team). I don't think that opportunity cost is a solid argument either because of the same precedent. Double Team takes up an entire moveslot and an entire turn. I would argue that in most of the cases, using Brightpowder or sacrificing Rough Skin bears significantly less cost. The only redeeming factor is the fact that evasion boosts stack, but that doesn't change the fact that getting set up to a threatening point is very unlikely. My original post on Double Team:
Items: The two accuracy-lowering items serve literally no purpose other than introducing hax into the game. For this reason, the consistency of them is unimportant in my opinion. There is no relevant counter-play (such as switching out in the case of Sand Attack). They have universal distribution (bar megas). They have arguably low opportunity cost on relevant mons. Clefable, for example, can make great use of these items. It is a common Knock Off absorber, so it is frequently playing itemless anyway, it typically stays on the field for a long time, so it has a greater chance of avoiding a move, and its item isn't completely necessary for its success. Their low usage is not a legitimate argument for not considering them for a ban. How much usage do you think Double Team would actually get?
Abilities: Garchomp and Gliscor are the relevant OU mons that take advantage of evasion-boosting abilities. A 25% loss in accuracy is huge. These, however, require support: sand must be up. This is different from gen 5, because weather is no longer permanent, so Sand Veil is voided after those 7 turns. The decline of weather is also a boon, though. It is far less likely that the perma sand will be replaced by perma rain or sun, extending the duration of Sand Veil abuse in some instances. It's not as if setting sand is super difficult, either. Tyrannitar and Hippowdon are both great mons in their own right, and they will be on the field frequently. doughboy recently made a team featuring dual Sand Veil mons that peaked #1 on the ladder. Most notable about this achievement in the context of evasion discussion is that laddering requires consistency, meaning that Sand Veil spam, while luck-based, was consistent enough to top the ladder. Sidenote: shorter weather duration means that Brightpowder is perhaps more potent on Sand Veil mons, as those extra subs provided by Leftovers may not happen before sand runs out anyway.
Moves: These are not an issue, in my opinion. They can be easily played around by simply switching out. The only worthwhile discussion is Acupressure, and that is irrelevant simply because of poor distribution. But hey, if you are opinionated about the affects of Sand Attack, then argue away!
Moral of the story: these are all elements that add pure luck to the game. In the case of the items, this is the sole purpose of running them. Is that grounds for expansion of the Evasion Clause?
Edit: Perhaps it is worth adding Quick Claw/Focus Band/etc to discussion? I'm primarily interested in evasion since there is already a clause and precedent for these things being banned, but these items are also equally useless outside of hax.
Elements in Question (in order of relevancy): Brightpowder, Lax Incense, Sand Veil, Snow Cloak, Sand Attack (+clones), and moves with a secondary effect of lowering accuracy or increasing evasion.
I am strongly in favor of a universal Brightpowder/Lax Incense ban. Sand Veil is debatable. The rest are fairly irrelevant, in my opinion. (Note that this is only considering the OU metagame, bar the items)
What do we currently prohibit? Most relevantly, Double Team and Minimize. I do not think that we can argue that any of these elements are abhorrently inconsistent when we have universally banned Double Team. It, on average, has less than a 10% chance of causing a legitimate miss (the 75% chance the turn that they use it does not count, as the opponent wasted that turn using Double Team). I don't think that opportunity cost is a solid argument either because of the same precedent. Double Team takes up an entire moveslot and an entire turn. I would argue that in most of the cases, using Brightpowder or sacrificing Rough Skin bears significantly less cost. The only redeeming factor is the fact that evasion boosts stack, but that doesn't change the fact that getting set up to a threatening point is very unlikely. My original post on Double Team:
MikeDawg said:
Items: The two accuracy-lowering items serve literally no purpose other than introducing hax into the game. For this reason, the consistency of them is unimportant in my opinion. There is no relevant counter-play (such as switching out in the case of Sand Attack). They have universal distribution (bar megas). They have arguably low opportunity cost on relevant mons. Clefable, for example, can make great use of these items. It is a common Knock Off absorber, so it is frequently playing itemless anyway, it typically stays on the field for a long time, so it has a greater chance of avoiding a move, and its item isn't completely necessary for its success. Their low usage is not a legitimate argument for not considering them for a ban. How much usage do you think Double Team would actually get?
Abilities: Garchomp and Gliscor are the relevant OU mons that take advantage of evasion-boosting abilities. A 25% loss in accuracy is huge. These, however, require support: sand must be up. This is different from gen 5, because weather is no longer permanent, so Sand Veil is voided after those 7 turns. The decline of weather is also a boon, though. It is far less likely that the perma sand will be replaced by perma rain or sun, extending the duration of Sand Veil abuse in some instances. It's not as if setting sand is super difficult, either. Tyrannitar and Hippowdon are both great mons in their own right, and they will be on the field frequently. doughboy recently made a team featuring dual Sand Veil mons that peaked #1 on the ladder. Most notable about this achievement in the context of evasion discussion is that laddering requires consistency, meaning that Sand Veil spam, while luck-based, was consistent enough to top the ladder. Sidenote: shorter weather duration means that Brightpowder is perhaps more potent on Sand Veil mons, as those extra subs provided by Leftovers may not happen before sand runs out anyway.
Moves: These are not an issue, in my opinion. They can be easily played around by simply switching out. The only worthwhile discussion is Acupressure, and that is irrelevant simply because of poor distribution. But hey, if you are opinionated about the affects of Sand Attack, then argue away!
Moral of the story: these are all elements that add pure luck to the game. In the case of the items, this is the sole purpose of running them. Is that grounds for expansion of the Evasion Clause?
Edit: Perhaps it is worth adding Quick Claw/Focus Band/etc to discussion? I'm primarily interested in evasion since there is already a clause and precedent for these things being banned, but these items are also equally useless outside of hax.
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