Everybody loves Kung-Fu Fighting: Underused's Fighting types

Which is your favourite Fighting-type?

  • Mienshao

    Votes: 19 23.5%
  • Heracross

    Votes: 15 18.5%
  • Cobalion

    Votes: 10 12.3%
  • Machamp

    Votes: 6 7.4%
  • Virizion

    Votes: 13 16.0%
  • Scrafty

    Votes: 10 12.3%
  • Hitmontop

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Hitmonlee

    Votes: 7 8.6%

  • Total voters
    81
  • Poll closed .

Metal Sonic

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Fighting is one of the best offensive STABs in the game, hitting 5 types for Super Effective, only resisted by 3 types and finally 1 type being immune to it. It is no question that the Underused metagame is being dominated by Fighting-types. If you aren't prepared for them, your team is going to fail. Very badly, I might add. With so many Fighting-types in Underused tier, which one should you choose from? Everything has its strengths and weaknesses, and this is no different; one man's meat is another man's poison. What are the selling points of some of the most prominent Underused threats? What makes them shout: "Pick me!"?

Without further ado, lets take a look at some of the potential candidates for your soon-to-be team!

Mienshao

Type: Fighting
Ability(s): Inner Focus/Regenerator/Reckless
Stats: 65, 125, 60, 95, 60, 105

Even though it has been ousted from its S-rank tier in the arbitrary UU Viability Ranking Thread, it still shares the coveted A-rank along with Heracross. An extremely high Attack stat backed up with one of the top Speed Tiers in UU, not to mention its fair Special Attack, gives Mienshao bright prospects for a team. With Regenerator, it can regain 1/3 of its health every switch in, making U-Turn extremely cost effective and also makes it rather difficult to wear down. A more offensive option in Reckless can be used to bolster the power of Hi Jump Kick, giving it a gigantic 234 Base Power (after calculating STAB). Hidden Power Ice can be used to counter Gligar, a common Fighting-type check, thanks to its decent Special Attack.

Mienshao can sweep with a powerful Choice Scarf set, as the colossal power of a Reckless boosted STAB Hi Jump Kick coming off Base 125 attack makes it a late-game bulldozer. It can also function as a powerful wallbreaker with Life Orb, or even use Swords Dance to complete an unbreakable sweep. Finally, Baton Pass sets can even be used, with several boosting moves such as Swords Dance, Work Up, Calm Mind and Substitute, backed up with its awesome Speed. However, a fault of Mienshao is that its Hi Jump Kick makes it fearful of Ghosts, and its defensive stats are quite poor.

Heracross

Type: Bug/Fighting
Ability(s): Swarm/Guts/Moxie
Stats: 80, 125, 75, 40, 95, 85

The only other Fighting-type in the A-rank of the Viability Ranking Thread, Heracross remains a popular choice for a Fighting-type in UU, and its not hard to see why. It has two moves that have Base Power 120, and furthermore are backed up by STAB and its large 125 Attack. Psychic-types are not a problem for Heracross, thanks to STAB Megahorn, and thus makes it one of the few Fighting-types that can take down Slowbro, which is another common Fighting-type check. Moxie is an awesome ability, rewarding the kill streaks that Heracross can get. This makes a Choice Scarf set a great choice, as Heracross can function as a revenge killer and physical sweeper all in one. Guts is also a wonderful ability, allowing Heracross to switch into Toxics and Will-O-Wisps which are ever so irritating.
The author's choice for a Sableye counter.

Cobalion


Type: Steel/Fighting
Ability(s): Justified
Stats: 91, 90, 129, 90, 72, 108

One of the only two Steel/Fighting types in the Pokemon Universe(as of now), Cobalion fulfils a extraordinary niche in its ever-so-useful Steel typing. Its Steel typing gives it a plethora of resistances, most notably Bug, Dark, Grass, Ice and Dragon, giving it multiple opportunities to switch in and cause havoc. Additionally, a great base 129 Defense with a decent 91 Base HP gives its Steel-typing more credence. Furthermore, of all the Fighting-types in UU, Cobalion is the only one that does not fear Flying-types. This means that Crobat is forced out due to the threat of a Stone Edge or a Hidden Power Ice.

Cobalion functions wonderfully as a physical sweeper with Swords Dance, and thanks to its very high Speed of 108 and its multiple setup opportunities, it can punch many holes in the opponent's team. However, a specially offensive set is not unprecedented either, due to its Special Attack being equal to its Attack, it does not make too much of a difference on which spectrum Cobalion decides to operate, with exception of the superior boosting move. Finally, a support set is also a great option, utilising Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave and Taunt to cripple the opponent's team. However, a fault of Cobalion is that its attacking stats are relatively poor.

Machamp

Type: Fighting
Ability(s): Guts/No Guard/Steadfast
Stats: 90, 130, 80, 65, 85, 55

Machamp boasts the highest Attack stat of all Fighting-types in UU. It also has a great track record of being OU in the past 4 generations, only dropping to UU along with other powerhouses such as Snorlax and more. Don't let down your guard, because Machamp's No Guard throws a 100% accurate, Base Power 100 STAB nuke, dealing heavy damage to anything not resisting it. It comes with a bonus of confusing your opponent, encouraging the use of hax while coming at absolutely no frills to Machamp (unless you consider having 8 PP a drawback). Machamp also has a good movepool, being able to use Stone Edge (which No Guard also benefits), Payback, Ice Punch and Thunderpunch. However, a fault of Machamp is that it is horribly slow and its bulk may not necessarily make up for it.

Virizion

Type: Grass/Fighting
Ability(s): Justified
Stats: 91, 90, 72, 90, 129, 108

The main selling point of Virizion is its Grass-typing. A STAB Leaf Blade is able to cut through Slowbro, a common Fighting-type check, and also other bulky Waters such as Swampert and Milotic. A useful defensive typing which resists Water, Ground, Electric and Grass along with an extremely high Special Defense of 129 grants it multiple setup opportunities. A Swords Dance set with Leaf Blade, Close Combat and Stone Edge makes it a fearsome sweeper while a Calm Mind set along with its 129 Special Defense makes it an unbreakable Special Tank. Furthermore, a great Base 108 Speed only helps to benefit its sweeping capabilities. However, a fault of Virizion is that it is quite weak before using boosts and a 4x weakness to Flying makes it very susceptible to stuff like Crobat.

Scrafty

Type: Dark/Fighting
Ability(s): Shed Skin/Moxie/Intimidate
Stats: 65, 90, 115, 45, 115, 58

Scrafty's has great offensive STABs, being able to hit all of UU for neutral damage. Unfortunately, its main counter happens to be extremely common in UU, and is also a competitor as a Fighting-type -- Heracross. Nonetheless, it gets great STABs in Hi Jump Kick and Crunch and also powerful boosting moves in Dragon Dance and Bulk Up. Furthermore, it gets one of the most coveted abilities in Moxie, making killstreaks very rewarding, and sufficient speed boosts from Dragon Dance can spell imminent doom for your opponent. Shed Skin is also a great idea, as it gets to remove status from itself (including on the first turn!) automatically and fits well with the Bulk Up set. Scrafty is also surprisingly bulky, with large Base 115 Defenses. However, a fault of Scrafty is that it is weak to the common Flying and Fighting moves found in UU.

Hitmontop

Type: Fighting
Ability(s): Intimidate/ Technician/ Steadfast
Stats: 50, 95, 95, 35, 110, 70

Hitmontop is one of the very few Rapid Spinners in UU. That gives it an exclusivity in its own right, and with Foresight it is able to prevent those defensive Ghosts from blocking Rapid Spin. This is very helpful for potential teammates such as Yanmega and Chandelure which appreciates Stealth Rocks being removed from the field. More importantly, Intimidate is a great ability as it neutralises physical sweepers and also acts as a counter to some of them such as Sharpedo and Scrafty. Its Base 110 Special Defense is also welcome for a Rapid Spinner. However, a fault of Hitmontop is that its Base HP is horrendously low, and it is unable to deal with multiple threats in UU such as Azelf, Crobat, Cofagrigus, Victini and a lot more.

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Hitmonlee


Type: Fighting
Ability(s): Limber/ Reckless/ Unburden
Stats: 50, 120, 53, 35, 110, 87

Hitmonlee is one of the few Pokemon in the game—let alone UU—with the ability Unburden. With its ability, Hitmonlee can double its Speed immediately and become an extremely threatening sweeper, like Yanmega and Sharpedo. That's not all Hitmonlee has going for it: it has a whopping base 120 Attack, a decent base 87 Speed, and great offensive options to utilize them with. Hitmonlee has a surprisingly high Special Defense to boot, which allows it to survive extremely powerful special attacks, such as Zapdos's Thunderbolt and Raikou's Extrasensory, and retaliate with a powerful attack of its own. Unfortunately, the fun ends there; Hitmonlee has an extremely low base Defense of 53, which makes it difficult for it to survive even resisted physical hits. However, with sufficient team support and good play, Hitmonlee can sweep whole teams.

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***New Addition!***
Poliwrath

Type: Water/Fighting
Ability(s): Water Absorb/Damp/Swift Swim
Stats: 90, 85, 95, 70, 90, 70

UU is a tier chock-full with both Fighting-types and bulky Water-types, so it would seem strange that Poliwrath would ever be a viable Pokemon in UU. However, unlike the rest of his karate brethren, Poliwrath was not designed to be a sweeper, but as a psuedo-hazer. Poliwrath's solid bulk, great ability in Water Absorb, and access to Circle Throw allow Poliwrath to assume a bulkier role on a team and abuse its teammate's entry hazards by forcing the opponent out. As mentioned, Poliwrath's ability Water Absorb allows Poliwrath to be one of the few Pokemon in UU capable of switching into Scald and other Water-type attacks and not have to worry about stray burns or severe damage, as the absorbed attack refills its HP. Poliwrath however, is flawed, as it is burdened with middling attacking stats, multiple weaknesses to common Pokemon, and a Speed stat that leaves Poliwrath outsped by a vast majority of the tier. Despite its downsides though, Poliwrath still makes for an excellent Pokemon for bulkier teams and stall teams.


Poliwrath will be getting a UU Analysis soon, thanks to our acceptance of him into the list of UU Fighting Types! Stay tuned!


So these are the most commonly used and viable Fighting-types in the Underused tier. They can all be outstanding with the right support, and at least one of them should be considered for your potential team! College applications Are there any more Fighting-types that I have missed from the Dean's list? Reply in this thread! I'd like to hear your opinions!
 
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CoolStoryBrobat

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One little qualm, "However, a fault of Machamp is that it is horribly slow and its bulk isn't that great." From my experience in the time I used Machamp and the many more times I had to fight against it, I've honestly been able to say Machamp's bulk is incredible. The majority of the time it's going to somehow live most neutral STAB moves and still manage to deck you in the face with the appropriate move, or even get a Substitute up if the risk is worth it. Especially since a good portion of Machamp invest in HP, I've found it incredibly annoying how hard it is to take down if you don't have the right thing up against it. But anyway...

I'm gonna take this time to rep Brobalion as my fave UU fighting type. Its design, its stats, everything. While it may not be the BEST fighting-type in UU, being weak to Fire, Fighting, AND Ground moves which are all stupidly common to see, it's got some stuff going on that can make it worth it. That base 108 Speed is incredible, and lategame it's going to be hard to stop...I've gotten away using a mixed set consisting of Close Combat, Volt Switch, HP Ice, and Flash Cannon/Stealth Rock just for craps and laughs and it actually did amazingly well. The reason behind it was because I got sick of Umbreon and wanted a reliable STAB move to put it in its place (while taking advantage of Cobalion's ability) on top of the fact Volt Switch surprises bulky waters who come in on it as well as how HP Ice demolishes Gligar and a few other switch-ins, and even various slower things weak to it like Banded Flygon (who is outsped and lol murdered). And that's just for that specific set I mentioned in general. I've also used Lum Swords Dance (Also incredibly worth it over Life Orb at times, getting that +2 in can make a huge difference in the face of a foe going for a burn or paralysis) to facilitate some vicious lategame sweeps. Once again, that base 108 Speed is incredibly good lategame, and you're going to either need a Cobalion/Virizion of your own or a Scarf User (or maybe an Azelf with Fire Blast) in order to put it in its place when the majority of your team's been weakened.

Like just because of the fact Cobalion (and Virizion for that matter, but watch for the occasional annoying Toxic sets) counters Umbreon so hard, and the fact that being a Fighting-type gives it an edge over the "Big 3" special walls in UU, Snorlax, Umbreon, and Porygon2, I've found it fun to pair Cobalion with most special attackers who really would love nothing more than to see the aforementioned pokes removed from the game. Stuff like Chandelure, Zapdos, etc. all get a kick out of having Cobalion in the backup since it often gives trouble to what you need to remove, and on top of the fact that its partner can usually eliminate its main checks being physical walls, ghosts, and bulky waters in general. Volt Switch really helps with getting the 1-up against most of them, too.

Oh and he also can work pretty nicely on Volt-Turn. I still got yet to try a SubCM set though...Kind of the only Brobalion set I haven't touched. I ain't got the guts...yet.
 
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I know this can be a lame answer, but I don't think there is one best fighting type. All of the different fighting pokes in UU have different niches. I think there is not one fighting type that you can slap on a team and expect it to do good. I find with especially with pokes like Heracross and Mienshao, that the metagame is prepared for them and consequentially, has made them less useful. UU has become about who can check who better, and in a metagame like that I don't think one can truly just throw a fighting type on their team like other types (Raikou imo). One truly has to truly plan out how to make sure that their fighting type will be able to be useful in the team-building stage. And to that, a pokemon that screams "pick me" should be able to bypass most of its checks or be able to clear the way for other sweppers in order for it to be viable on a wide range of teams. I find Cobalion to be that poke, while again it is not the best and it is not recommended on every team, I find that sets like Sub SD and even the Mixed Ebelt or Life Orb set makes Cobalion a unpredictable poke that gets the job done alot of the time. And that job is to set up for more reliable sweepers such as Raikou and Kingdra. Virizion also can do this job as it can clean up Ground and Water types with ease. The moral of the story is, to not slap Mienshao and Heracross on your team because they are too easily checked and too often prepared for. Rather use pokes that still takes advantage of the great offensive typing of fighting without having to rely choice items to be viable. These would be Cobalion and Virizion. I also want to bring light to Hitmonlee, it is honestly one of the most dangerous sweepers in the metagame, when I use it I pretty much build the team on taking out its checks then letting it sweep. It's that good.
 

Metal Sonic

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Hello! @CoolStoryBrobat , thanks for your comment! I've edited the snippet from Machamp in order to provide a better opinion! "its bulk isn't that great may not necessarily make up for it"
This is because I feel that the lack of Speed from Machamp is extremely hindering(otherwise it would go to OU!), and I feel that its above-average bulk may not make up for this loss. In comparison, Conkeldurr which is in OU now has superior Physical Bulk and better Attack, with 105 HP and 95 Defense.

@GULLY, I agree with you too! That is why my poll is written as "Which is your favourite Fighting type" rather than which is the "best" Fighting type! This is why I have created a "Dean's list" so that you can happily choose which Fighting type you can include in your team! They are all good; but which is better in which situation? :)

Thanks for the detailed the comments and keep the discussion going! Which is your favourite Fighting-type?
 

Ace Emerald

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Well I think objectively the best Fighting-type has to be Mienshao with its combination of raw power, speed, and amazing sets (seriously, Scarf, SubPass, LO, you can't go wrong), but my personal favorite is hands down Virizion. While a lot of the time Grass- and Fighting-type attacks overlap in coverage (both are resisted by Poison-, Bug-, and Flying-types, both hit Rock-types for super effective), the coverage gives Virizion something special in important scenarios. The OP mentioned that its Grass typing allows it to break through common physical walls, and that's true, but more importantly, its Fighting typing allows it to break through the 3 best special walls in the tier: Umbreon, Porygon2, and Snorlax. Umbreon struggles to do anything to Virizion as it resists Foul Play and Umbreon doesn't have room for much else. Offensive Porygon2 has an 80% chance of being OHKO'd at +1 without LO, and Virizion can tank anything it has in return. Defensive can be a little annoying with Toxic, but it still has a 37% chance of being OHKO'd, again without LO. Offensive Snorlax is a little tougher (without LO, with LO is almost a certain OHKO without hazards), but after 2 switches with some sort of hazard, Virizion can bust right through. The only downside is Focus Blast will make you cry, but this is one of the few times I don't hate using it because it forces your opponent to beat a really fast special sweeper without a dedicated special wall, which at the right point midgame (ie Zapdos weakened, Crobat dead or dying) can be really tough to stop.
 

reachzero

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I'm not a big fan of Mienshao for a number of reasons. Hi Jump Kick is extremely unreliable, since it only hits 90% of the time under optimal circumstances, and considering that you are taking about 50% each time you miss (and probably being KOed by whatever the enemy does), that is pretty risky. Add to that the fact that UU has some excellent Ghosts, and HJK is often too dangerous to even consider using...Mienshao's coverage move of choice is Stone Edge, and that is also notoriously unreliable. Then factor in the fact that Mienshao is countered by pretty much all of the common Fighting-type counters except Zapdos, and you can see why I'm less than thrilled with it. Unlike Heracross, Mienshao gives your team nothing back defensively. It is fairly risky to switch into even relatively weak attackers. Scarf Mienshao has some notable drawbacks when compared to Scarf Heracross, notably failing to handle boosting Mew and being unable to safely switch into Scrafty. I think Heracross is a much better and more reliable Pokemon, considering that Heracross gets full sweeps more often, is nearly as good at revenge-killing (and revenge-kills some things that Mienshao can't), and can choose to be completely unwallable (Swords Dance Heracross is a lot more viable than Swords Dance Mienshao).

I am a big fan of (Bulk Up) Scrafty, a massively underrated threat in the present metagame, in my opinion. Very few of the common anti-Fighting counters actually wall Scrafty, especially if Scrafty carries three attacks for Zen Headbutt. It's really hard to take down if you don't have Heracross, HP Flying Zapdos, or Nidoqueen, and Scrafty can wear even those down if you use it carefully. It's not as universally easy to fit as Heracross, but Scrafty is probably my favorite Fighting type to build around.
 
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Cobalion is def very versatile. However he is a great counter to snorlax and umbreon, p2 is a bit trickier. You only have a 31.25% to ohko the uu tank set with a lo close combat after stealth rock dmg. With a download boost p2 is almost guaranteed a ohko on cobalion after the sp def drops with thunderbolt. P2 cannot switch in but the odds are in the favor of p2 in 1v1.

But i def think virizion is my fav fighting type. Its speed and coverage lets it beat the common walls like slowbro snorlax swampert rhyperior suicune milotic.
 
Usually whether Heracross or Mienshao is better depends on what I'm looking for in my team. Mienshao offers a hell of a lot of speed and a great amount of power which gives it great revenge killing abilities, so I use it as a tool to revenge kill things like Scrafty, Krookodile (!), etc. While U-turn is also an amazing move that allows Mienshao to easily grab momentum on your side, which Heracross can't do, and this is awesome to get things like CB Druddigon in for free to get some free kills. If I want revenge killing as well as scouting, Mienshao is usually my pick (I dislike Moxie Heracross tbh). I also really like SubPass, because that set can easily screw over common Fighting-type counters, passing the Sub over to something like Shaymin or Kingdra, and now I have a fuckton of momentum. Regenerator and Reckless are also awesome abilities that can keep Mienshao healthy or make its HJK hit hard as fuck.

Heracross offers more of a wallbreaking prowess imo, and is usually pretty cool to beat the living crap out of opponents with its power (SD and CB rule), and has great coverage in Megahorn and Close Combat (and Stone Edge lol). Heracross is something I like for the raw power, and its high powered STABs is nice to break down bulkier Pokemon in the tier such as Umbreon and Slowbro which can be annoying for my team at times. Guts is also a great ability that allows Heracross to absorb burns from Sableye and Dusclops, so if I need a safe bet against them, I usually use Heracross to get in, get burned, and set up SD so it can break down walls like a boss.

I agree though that Scrafty is probably one of my favorite Fighting-types to use atm (you can probably tell from my username). Dark / Fighting coverage is outright amazing, and a STAB Crunch means Cofagrigus and Dusclops aren't safe against Scrafty like they are against other Fighting-types. With DD+Moxie, Scrafty can sweep teams like a complete boss, with HJK+Crunch destroying teams, and the Moxie Snowball with the kill streaks is awesome to make it extremely hard to stop after a kill. Another thing I like about DD+Moxie is that unlike Heracross, Scrafty can freely switch moves, so it doesn't get forced out to continue sweeping. Ice Punch is also an awesome move Scrafty has imo; unlike Heracross and Mienshao, it doesn't have to rely on lolStone Miss to handle incoming Flying-types like Crobat and Zapdos and can reliably hit 'em with Ice Punch. It also is really helpful against Nidoqueen, who could stop hera/mien in their tracks. BU Scrafty is also awesome to break down stall teams, with its bulk and typing as well as Shed Skin meaning that it basically is a win condition against stall. Cores like Umbreon+Porygon2+Dusclops are breakable simply by BU Scrafty. I've also used a Taunt+DD set with Shed Skin I found from PO, and it works amazingly as both a stallbreaker and sweeper at once, being able to sweep and break stall. I have yet to use CB but I'm sure that set can do well by checking things with Intimidate and hitting pretty hard.
 

Ace Emerald

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I'm not a big fan of Mienshao for a number of reasons. Hi Jump Kick is extremely unreliable, since it only hits 90% of the time under optimal circumstances, and considering that you are taking about 50% each time you miss (and probably being KOed by whatever the enemy does, that is pretty risky. Add to that the fact that UU has some excellent Ghosts, and HJK is often too dangerous to even consider using...Mienshao's coverage move of choice is Stone Edge, and that is also notoriously unreliable. Then factor in the fact that Mienshao is countered by pretty much all of the common Fighting-type counters except Zapdos, and you can see why I'm less than thrilled with it. Unlike Heracross, Mienshao gives your team nothing back defensively. It is fairly risky to switch into even relatively weak attackers. Scarf Mienshao has some notable drawbacks when compared to Scarf Heracross, notably failing to handle boosting Mew and being unable to safely switch into Scrafty. I think Heracross is a much better and more reliable Pokemon, considering that Heracross gets full sweeps more often, is nearly as good at revenge-killing (and revenge-kills some things that Mienshao can't), and can choose to be completely unwallable (Swords Dance Heracross is a lot more viable than Swords Dance Mienshao).

I am a big fan of (Bulk Up) Scrafty, a massively underrated threat in the present metagame, in my opinion. Very few of the common anti-Fighting counters actually wall Scrafty, especially if Scrafty carries three attacks for Zen Headbutt. It's really hard to take down if you don't have Heracross, HP Flying Zapdos, or Nidoqueen, and Scrafty can wear even those down if you use it carefully. It's not as universally easy to fit as Heracross, but Scrafty is probably my favorite Fighting type to build around.
Let's be honest reach, you don't like Mienshao because the most offensive Pokemon you use is SubRoost Zapdos (just kidding, but come on, you aren't exactly an offensive player). I'll give you Heracross as a far superior wall breaker (Guts + Bulk + Bug typing), but Mienshao blows Heracross away if you're looking for an offensive sweeper. Yeah, it'll never get past Cofagrigus, Slowbro, or Gligar, but its strength is sweeping late game once its counters have been weakened, or blasting through HO teams who's Fighting resist is offensive Nidoqueen. Heracross just can't match Mienshao's speed and power. But that's just the Scarf set, Mienshao actually can beat its counters with its amazing SubPass set. It has a 62% chance to OHKO Crobat from full health, with no hazards. Cofag/Slowbro/Gligar switch in? Give an offensive Pokemon a free switch, or give a bulkier resist a free switch + Substitute. It can be harder to bring into battle, sure, but Mienshao's prowess against offensive teams far exceed Heracross's.

EDIT: Yeah a lot of what Scrafty said
 

Kitten Milk

[22:59:31] <KittenUU> 241 of which are fellacious
I'm honestly torn between Heracross and Cobalion.

Cobalion is something I've only recently fallen in love with, but it's seriously amazing. It would be good if for nothing else it's one of the hardest counters to Umbreon. Just slap it on any team with a bunch of special attackers or things that get hurt by foul play and you have yourself some free boosts and free turns. Furthermore, it has pretty great coverage, lots of options and utility, and is just underappreciated overall.

Heracross, on the other hand, is most commonly seen scarfed, but I will basically never run scarf. I just feel like it's so prepared for that it rarely works nowadays, and I much prefer sets like Guts Banded or EndureSalac. That said, it has nice coverage, insane abilities, and passable speed. If it had something to hit cofagrigus harder I'd love it even more ^^.
 

Ernesto

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@Ace Emerald : You know I will never see eye-to-eye with most people on that? Sure Reckless Mienshao can hit incredibly hard when it's actually safe to do so, but Scarf Hera gives a couple of things to offensive teams Shao will never do, biggest ones being revenge killing offensive Mew and SD Weavile (and Sharp if you wanna go there, depending on the amount of hazards you let your opponent set up), both of which Shao fails at. Not every offensive team can fit Escav or Swampert on it, and having to refrain from Pursuiting a Chandelure with CB Lax just because you know you'll outright lose to SD Weavile sucks a lot; at least Hera can take a +2 LO Ice Shard if you were careful with it, which is the whole point of having a revenge killer in the first place! Also if you dislike the fact that you don't hit as hard at first with Hera, you can always run Guts on it and try to get it in on a Toxic or Sleep move (not as hard as it sounds in practice, oddly). Guts Heracross will actually hit harder than Reckless Shao with every move, which makes up for the fact that you have to get it in on the right move. It's been a real while since I've used Moxie Scarf, but that's probably because of the way I play.
And this is all, of course, without taking into account Heracross's ability to actually switch into stuff, mainly because the biggest argument for Mienshao is that it doesn't need to do so to be good (one of the biggest reasons I usually choose Victini>Darm and Hera>Shao is precisely the combination of bulk+resistances, but you don't need to agree with me on that one). Heracross can run bulky offensive sets rather well, to my surprise. I was playing against RT. Nas once and he had a Band Heracross which was wrecking me (because I had HP Ice on SubRoost Zappy fsr), and bulky Hera saved my life there. RT. Nas will probably tell you that I haxed him, but that's inconsequential.

What I'm saying is that while yes, Mienshao has many things going for it, I'll usually choose Scarf Hera over Scarf Mien for my revenge-killing Fighting-type, CB or SD Hera over All-out attacker Shao (Mienshao's pro being beating base 100s, of course), meaning the only set I'll prefer Mien over Hera is SubPass. And I've seen so few of those that it's harder to discuss its effectiveness... I will give you that subbing on a Protect Umbreon feels a hell of a lot better than SDing on it, though.

PS: You know what's funny about SD Heracross? In DPP UU it was almost unwallable, you needing to rely on something like Weezing or Aerial Ace Nidoqueen to beat it (or Golbat!) reliably on defensive teams, and now in BW we have Zapdos, Crobat, and Chandelure as amazing offensive checks, while the defensive ones we got (Eviolite Gligar, Cofagrigus) still stand to lose the same way the older ones did. Some things never change.
 
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Yay, Virizion is winning in the poll!! Ok fanboy love aside I really like Virizion mainly as already stated because of how it gets past many common special walls and in general pretty much all the walls in the tier besides Cofagrigus and Crobat (Stallbreaking set) Plus, it also has a really cool design! Cobalion is cool as well mainly because of similar reasons as Virzion (Stat spread, design, ETC) And it is really versatile so that would have to be my next favorite. Someone already mentioned BU Scrafty which is actually really fun and good besides the flaws mentioned. I like it more then the DD set because it focuses more on its physical bulk it isn' revenge killed as easily and can set up more easily as well.


Lastly, 0 votes for Hitmontop lol.
 
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 232 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef / 20 Spd
Careful Nature
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Bulk Up
- Substitute

I'm a huge fan of any Scrafty set but my favorite by far is Sub-BU. This thing is a great counter to many walls in the tier, pretty much no special attacks from a wall can break Scrafty's sub and after a Bulk Up most physical walls will be hard pressed to do the same. Scrafty's bulk is really astounding, after 1 BU Mienshao can't even OHKO it (252 Atk Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. +1 232 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 246-290 (74.77 - 88.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Here's a list of things that Scrafty can get a guaranteed set up on:
  1. Umbreon - All it can do is Toxic while Scrafty Subs
  2. Defensive Slowbro
  3. Milotic - Can only Scald/Toxic when Scrafty Subs
  4. Defensive Cofagrigus - Can only Haze, which isn't very common
  5. Rhyperior - After 2 BUs it can't break Scrafty's Sub, but if it Dragon Tails at any time while Scrafty Subs up then thats a guaranteed set-up
  6. Bronzong
  7. Cresselia - Can only Toxic/T-Wave
  8. Defensive Porygon2
  9. Gligar
  10. Xatu
  11. Claydol

Scrafty's great bulk comes at the heavy price of being weak as crap however. Even after 2 or 3 Bulk Ups Scrafty is hard pressed to beat things like Swampert or Blastoise, both of which can easily phase Scrafty out. While this set isn't without it's flaws I still think that its pretty great.
 

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Focus Punch / Circle Throw
- Waterfall

I feel that Poliwrath deserve mentions here. While it's not the apex Fighting-type, its access to Water Absorb and Circle Throw make it a great team player when used on a bulkier team set on abusing hazards (be it stall or bulky offence). As mentioned, Water Absorb allows Poliwrath to come in on most Water-types in the tier (Milotic, Suicune, Azumaril, Feraligatr and Empoleon to name a few) with impunity, as it can now bypass the are-you-sure-it's-30% Burn rate on Scald, which only Guts users, specifically Heracross, were capable of doing. Poliwrath also has this added bonus of being arguably one of the best SubPunchers in the tier, as its dual typing and access to Water Absorb give it a plethora of setup opportunities. I've added a few calculations to show off what Poliwrath can dish out and take. It plays a lot like the BU Scrafty used by PTJon, where the power only really becomes truly noticeable after the third Bulk Up, but can take a fair amount of abuse.

252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 286-337 (74.47 - 87.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
192 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 216-254 (56.25 - 66.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 142-168 (36.97 - 43.75%) -- 99.76% chance to 3HKO
+1 4 Atk Poliwrath Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 273-324 (63.04 - 74.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 4 Atk Poliwrath Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 231-273 (57.17 - 67.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Mienshao is the best as a Scarfer, and that's the only thing that matters to me. My favorite fighting type is Virizion since it destroys stalls and offensive teams after you get to +2.
 
I think Heracross is the best, but my fav right now is definitely Scrafty. It's ability to maul ghosts is just such a great asset that other fighting types don't have (Heracross typically don't run Night Slash, and Hitmontop's Sucker Punch doesn't hurt very much)

I like to run a good chunk of Attack EVs (I'm running around 180 right now but this number is not very well thought out) so that it can deal damage to switch-ins, or become a threat at +1. I played around with things like 252 HP 252 SpDef sets, but I find that it's not that threatening at +1. It needs to set up multiple times to be dangerous and considering the number of fighting moves in the tier, it's not easy to do. Scrafty's typing and coverage moves are just too sweet for it to function as solely a lategame sweeper. I want it to be threatening all game long.

I'm using Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Ice Punch/Crunch (I like to call this the Weavile coverage). Ice Punch is very nice against Flying switch-ins, which will happen while Scrafty is at +0. That's why I like Attack EVs. I won't necessarily have a chance to set up
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Focus Punch / Circle Throw
- Waterfall

I feel that Poliwrath deserve mentions here. While it's not the apex Fighting-type, its access to Water Absorb and Circle Throw make it a great team player when used on a bulkier team set on abusing hazards (be it stall or bulky offence). As mentioned, Water Absorb allows Poliwrath to come in on most Water-types in the tier (Milotic, Suicune, Azumaril, Feraligatr and Empoleon to name a few) with impunity, as it can now bypass the are-you-sure-it's-30% Burn rate on Scald, which only Guts users, specifically Heracross, were capable of doing. Poliwrath also has this added bonus of being arguably one of the best SubPunchers in the tier, as its dual typing and access to Water Absorb give it a plethora of setup opportunities. I've added a few calculations to show off what Poliwrath can dish out and take. It plays a lot like the BU Scrafty used by PTJon, where the power only really becomes truly noticeable after the third Bulk Up, but can take a fair amount of abuse.

252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 286-337 (74.47 - 87.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
192 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 216-254 (56.25 - 66.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 142-168 (36.97 - 43.75%) -- 99.76% chance to 3HKO
+1 4 Atk Poliwrath Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 273-324 (63.04 - 74.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 4 Atk Poliwrath Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 231-273 (57.17 - 67.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yo, Poliwrath is a beast, I wanna cosign on this. I had a lot of fun using it on a paralysis team of mine back in the day, and Water Absorb is definitely useful in a tier where the majority of your foes are bulky water types. Slowbro's the only bulky water who really gives Poliwrath some issues, but I def think this thing is worthy. I need to try it out again...My last go with Poliwrath wasn't so great, but that won't change my appreciation for this thing. However the EV spread here is pretty interesting, never thought about significant Defense investment. I usually just used max Attack and enough speed to at least outspeed Blastoise (so as to get a Sub up before they can Toxic) with the rest being put into HP. I also ran an Adamant nature. Either way, I mess with Poliwrath pretty heavy, mayne. Just ruins the very concept of CroCune's existence.
 

Metal Sonic

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Hey guys! Thanks for the responses! It seems that a majority of the players here seem to like Scrafty and Virizion, however the poll shows that Mienshao and Heracross are as usual, the top choices.

Discussion questions: Why is there this disparity? Is the fact that Mienshao and Heracross winning the poll show that they are objectively good/popular or are they merely overrated? And why is Hitmontop, despite being one of the most used Fighting-types in UU by usage, getting no love votes?


I may add in the Poliwrath suggestion into the original post, the arguments are convincing, despite it being abysmal in usage at this moment. Perhaps there could be a third and final member to support this underrated Fighter and I will add it to the main list :)

Are there any other Fighting types that can be used in UU that I have missed(for example, Poliwrath, which was subsequently suggested)?

Keep the discussion going! What are the checks and counters for some of these Fighters? What can benefit them as a team? What added value can they bring to the team?

This thread has been very enjoyable and I hope that we can continue discussing the merits of our Fighters for at least another week or two ;)
 
Well, the only Pokes we did not go into are ... uuugh ... our Psychic / Fighting duo Gallade and Medicham I guess. Gallade has really nice natural special bulk which makes setting up on some walls fairly easy. It also has access to Close Combat, arguably the best Fighting-type move in terms of risk/reward, while Shadow Sneak works pretty well against Ghosts once it has that SD up or a few Bulk Ups.
Medicham is mostly choiced because of Pure Power. It has like base 70 Spe so scarf is actually viable, something Azumarril cannot do. Also both of them have STAB on Psycho Cut (or even Zen Headbutt in Gallade's case) which makes many common bulky Poison-types less useful against these two.
 
Gallade I'm in favour of supporting for this list, as its excellent Attack and Special Defence kinda separate it from the majority of the tier. Gallade sports a wide-enough movepool that it can take on a number of threats and win, beating out even the likes of Cofagrigus. Swords Dance Gallade is actually a very viable threat, as Shadow Sneak does a number to Scarf Chandelure, or Night Slash to bypass Slowbro and Cofagrigus.

The biggest issue as to why I'd argue against admitting Medicham being included on this list, is that it has absolutely no way around opposing Ghost-types, specifically Cofagrigus, and is actually weak to the type, excluding it from the likes of Poliwrath and Hitmonlee, who have been given the opportunity to be included on this list. Medicham on its own is a very weak and slow Pokemon, even when equipped with a Choice Scarf, meaning that other users can outspeed Medicham and easily KO it. As a general rule of thumb that many UU players have come up with, if it can't outspeed Scarf MoxieCross, don't bother Scarfing it, Chandelure being the only exception due to its STABs. Medicham is fairly predictable too, since the only competent set it can run is Choice Scarf or Choice Band, making it easier to beat once locked into a move. Psychic-type STAB is a terrible STAB to have to lock yourself into as well, as there's a fair number of Dark-types willing to either set up on you or Pursuit trap you. And unlike Azumarill, who's known for its double-boost Aqua Jet, Medicham doesn't have any reliable priority moves, meaning it can't really bypass its middling Speed if given a Choice Band.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Well...there's always Gurdurr...been messing with that thing a bit lately. It takes a good chunk of support to pull off, but STAB Mach Punch and the great bulk it has with Eviolite is enough to make it viable as is, honestly. Yes, honestly. I'm going to be "That Guy" and actually rep Gurdurr in here while I'm at it, the most forgotten Fighting-type who has some UU viability.
 
One of the things I love about Mienshao is that it doesn't have to worry about hazards as much as say, Heracross--Spikes are so common in UU, and even with Froslass gone, they won't be going away anytime soon, not to mention it's so hard to spin (I voted for Mienshao, by the way). Also, u-turn makes Mienshao so much more effective, because its hard countered by a number of things.

Speaking of spinning, no one likes Hitmontop. It's just a necessary evil that your team synergy will occasionally necessitate. Even when you use it, you still hate it because its keeping you from adding a fighting type to your team that you actually want to use.

Well...there's always Gurdurr...been messing with that thing a bit lately. It takes a good chunk of support to pull off, but STAB Mach Punch and the great bulk it has with Eviolite is enough to make it viable as is, honestly. Yes, honestly. I'm going to be "That Guy" and actually rep Gurdurr in here while I'm at it, the most forgotten Fighting-type who has some UU viability.
Hmm. I don't doubt it can pay off when you set upon say, choiced Megahorn or something, but it's hard to think of a situation when Gurdurr might as well just be replaced by Bulk-Up Scrafty. I mean yeah, priority sounds cool, but a lot of faster pokemon that hit Fighting STAB super effective also resist Mach Punch anyway. And the Eviolite bulk also sounds neat, but even defensively, Shed Skin is just so much better than Guts-w/o-leftovers for a slow defensive stat-upper. (Also, there's the omnipresent entry hazard damage in UU + lack of leftovers).
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hmm. I don't doubt it can pay off when you set upon say, choiced Megahorn or something, but it's hard to think of a situation when Gurdurr might as well just be replaced by Bulk-Up Scrafty. I mean yeah, priority sounds cool, but a lot of faster pokemon that hit Fighting STAB super effective also resist Mach Punch anyway. And the Eviolite bulk also sounds neat, but even defensively, Shed Skin is just so much better than Guts-w/o-leftovers for a slow defensive stat-upper. (Also, there's the omnipresent entry hazard damage in UU + lack of leftovers).
You'd actually be surprised...If you can get a couple boosts in, the recovery from Drain Punch will mainly be saving you a few times, especially if you're boosted from Guts. Just like Scrafty though, it's best played lategame but at the same time, it at least has a Mach Punch to pick off a weakened threat at some point and come back later. And you're not necessarily always going to be statused, so passive damage can't always be a factor against it. I mean it's blatantly obvious that if Gurdurr was as good as I'm making it seem, it would actually BE somewhere outside of NU, so I ain't disagreeing with what you're saying, because it takes a lot of support to make it work, more than Scrafty in some cases. But when it does work, it's amazing in its own right.

Unlike Scrafty it also doesn't crumble to almost every damn Fighting move you throw at it, which is a lil bit more common than the usual Psychic/Flying attack.
 

Metal Sonic

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@CoolStoryBrobat @Pokemazter

Regarding the Poliwrath set, do you guys think it is actually viable in the UU metagame? Considering that the tier is full of stuff like Raikou, Zapdos, Shaymin, Slowbro, Slowking and Roserade, which are all extremely common and give large problems to Poliwrath? How will Poliwrath be able to setup effectively?

Gurdurr is an interesting option in my opinion, however I am more accustomed to using it in NU than in UU x.x
In UU, there are stuff like Crobat and Gligar just waiting to destroy you, and also is pretty much bait for stuff like Zapdos and Raikou as well. Unless it has a significant niche threat that it can set up or or deal with in the UU metagame, I'm sticking to using it in NU for now xD

Scrafty is a great pokemmon in my opinion, I've used it a lot! However sometimes its damage is underwhelming(a +3 Scrafty couldnt OHKO a Togekiss once, made me sad). I still have a team that utilises it as the final sweeper but its very tough to use/ I can't play it to is fullest potential myself unless I am in the "zone", but I've personally used it and believe it is very good, as long as Heracross is dead.

Guys! Do you prefer BU Scrafty or DD Scrafty? Provide reasons as to why!

@Pokemazter @ScraftyIsTheBest @PTJon7 @Ace Emerald
 
Bulk up Scrafty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD scrafty

I could literally rant forever about why DD scrafty should never be used but basically, even at +2 it's still outsped and OHKO's by scarfed mienshao. Scrafty is also outclassed by every other moxie user in the tier as a moxie sweeper with pitiful 90 Attack and downright awful 58 Speed. Bulk Up Scrafty at least stands a chance to get a sweep going as it can ignore status indefinitely and can set up on a lot more of the meta.
 
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