Everybody loves Kung-Fu Fighting: Underused's Fighting types

Which is your favourite Fighting-type?

  • Mienshao

    Votes: 19 23.5%
  • Heracross

    Votes: 15 18.5%
  • Cobalion

    Votes: 10 12.3%
  • Machamp

    Votes: 6 7.4%
  • Virizion

    Votes: 13 16.0%
  • Scrafty

    Votes: 10 12.3%
  • Hitmontop

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Hitmonlee

    Votes: 7 8.6%

  • Total voters
    81
  • Poll closed .
Poliwrath, I feel is a viable candidate to be considered useful in this metagame, as the set-up options are there for it thanks to all the bulky Water-types running around in this tier, barring Slowbro and Slowking. Poliwrath is the safest Scald switch-in available to UU, which then gives it the ability to set its Substitute up, and abuse hazards via Circle Throw. Many of the bulkier Pokemon in the tier, such as Gligar, Bronzong, and Rhyperior, are also functional set-up bait for Poliwrath, given that two of the three listed are afraid of Poliwrath's Water-type STAB, and Bronzong simply cannot do anything to Poliwrath to either break its Substitute or avoid taking damage. Sharpedo, considered to be one of the best late-game cleaners in the tier, is brought to a screeching halt by Poliwrath, as Earthquake is only doing enough to 4HKO (when Poliwrath runs 252 HP / 252 Def). Did I mention that Poliwrath is also a very effective check to Weavile? Poliwrath's main checks fall into four categories, Electric-types, Grass-types, Psychic-types, and Flying-types. Pairing it with a Rhyperior for example, gets rid of two of those weaknesses, gives Rhyperior something to sponge Water-type attacks with, and hazards for Poliwrath to abuse. Victini, provided is still UU after these next upcoming weeks, is also able to handle the Grass- and Psychic-type attacks thrown at Poliwrath. Victini and Poliwrath also synergize well together, as Poliwrath once again absorbs the Water-type attacks aimed at Victini, while in return Victini handles the aforementioned Grass- and Psychic-type attacks. Even Pokemon like Crobat, who are theoretically weak to a solid third of the tier, still find ways to be successful by sticking to their niche and through team support. This case is no different than Poliwrath, as it is used to check, and sometimes counter, opposing Water-types. Once behind a Substitute however, one can be more liberal with how they use Poliwrath, as it then becomes a very effective phaser. I'm not saying that everyone should jump on board with this right of the get-go, but rather that Poliwrath is another one of the options available to our welcoming tier. If I had to rank it on the Viability thread, it would be looking at something like C-Rank, as it's great at performing the job it needs to, and it's a Fighting-type. If you want to use a sweeper, use something like Heracross or Mienshao. Poliwrath is a bulky Pokemon meant to go toe-to-toe with opposing Water-types, sans Slowbro and Slowking, Substitute up, and start roughing them up. It works well on bulky offense teams and even stall teams that need something to handle either opposing Water-types or a reliable phaser.
 

pokeisfun

UU player and community member
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I know someone on PO who uses Specs Poliwrath in UU to a somewhat strong effect. It really has a few things going for it includng priority through Vacuum Wave and a very strong STAB move in Hydro Pump and a good range of other moves to pick from including any HP (maybe even Flying for Virizion) and Focus Blast and Ice Beam and Surf. It is somewhat bulky especially if you do not max speed out because the base defenses totaled are stronger than Machamp while Water gives it more resistances and the ability Water Absorb lets it heal on Water moves. Being a special fighting type gives it a somewhat large advantage against the top two special walls Umbreon and Snorlax which is a large plus. I keep on using the word somewhat because you rarely lock into Focus Blast while it does have a tendency to miss for the 2HKO and the bulk is offset by the lack of resistances (Ground, Dragon, Ghost, Grass, Electric all hit Poliwrath for at least x1 damage). Power is not as much as an issue as you would expect from a base 70 because Choice Specs and absolute maximum Special Attack is used although it will basically never OHKO defensive Pokemon even if they are weak to the moves but he will almost always OHKO offensive Pokemon that are frailer with minimal support. Very weird limbo area imo but whatever!
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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I know someone on PO who uses Specs Poliwrath in UU to a somewhat strong effect. It really has a few things going for it includng priority through Vacuum Wave and a very strong STAB move in Hydro Pump and a good range of other moves to pick from including any HP (maybe even Flying for Virizion) and Focus Blast and Ice Beam and Surf. It is somewhat bulky especially if you do not max speed out because the base defenses totaled are stronger than Machamp while Water gives it more resistances and the ability Water Absorb lets it heal on Water moves. Being a special fighting type gives it a somewhat large advantage against the top two special walls Umbreon and Snorlax which is a large plus. I keep on using the word somewhat because you rarely lock into Focus Blast while it does have a tendency to miss for the 2HKO and the bulk is offset by the lack of resistances (Ground, Dragon, Ghost, Grass, Electric all hit Poliwrath for at least x1 damage). Power is not as much as an issue as you would expect from a base 70 because Choice Specs and absolute maximum Special Attack is used although it will basically never OHKO defensive Pokemon even if they are weak to the moves but he will almost always OHKO offensive Pokemon that are frailer with minimal support. Very weird limbo area imo but whatever!
Specs Poliwrath...That sounds pretty comical in general, but heck it sounds interesting enough that I would actually attempt to test it out, because I'm just an insane dude like that...I would like to post a few random calcs below, though, against some of Poliwrath's big switch-ins. Not that I'm doing it to argue in favor or against your point per se, but I'd wanna see the numbers speak for themselves...And I'll let that speak to everyone else...

(All calcs are assumed the target is switching in on Poliwrath and you use the appropriate move. In the event you go for a "Safe Play" and use a move that can still hit but isn't super effective, I'll post damage directly below)

Vs. Zapdos
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 248-294 (77.01 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 235-277 (72.98 - 86.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 248-294 (77.01 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 235-277 (72.98 - 86.02%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 248-294 (64.75 - 76.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 235-277 (61.35 - 72.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 248-294 (64.75 - 76.76%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 235-277 (61.35 - 72.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Vs. Crobat
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 176 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 272-322 (76.61 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 176 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 258-304 (72.67 - 85.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 176 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 272-322 (76.61 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 176 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 258-304 (72.67 - 85.63%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Vs. Togekiss
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Togekiss: 154-182 (41.28 - 48.79%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Togekiss: 144-171 (38.6 - 45.84%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Togekiss: 154-182 (41.28 - 48.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Togekiss: 144-171 (38.6 - 45.84%) -- 94.92% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 202-238 (54.15 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Still a 2HKO after SR on physically defensive Togekiss)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 190-225 (50.93 - 60.32%) -- 89.45% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO after SR on physically defensive Togekiss)


Vs. Virizion
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 182-216 (56.17 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 172-204 (53.08 - 62.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs. Slowbro
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 202-238 (51.39 - 60.55%) -- 90.63% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 202-238 (51.39 - 60.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Slowbro kind of resists all the other moves assuming you run Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, and Ice Beam so there's no point to calc those...)

Vs. Raikou
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 214-253 (66.66 - 78.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Due to having the same BP, STAB, and neutrality, Focus Blast does the exact same amount to Raikou)

Vs. Shaymin
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 226-268 (66.27 - 78.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 214-253 (62.75 - 74.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs. Mew
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Mew: 157-186 (38.86 - 46.03%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Mew: 157-186 (38.86 - 46.03%) -- 19.92% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Poliwrath Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0+ SpD Mew: 195-231 (57.18 - 67.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


From what I have seen in the calcs, long as you have good prediction and Stealth Rock up, I think Specs Poliwrath would be worth attempting. ...Attempting, though. Bear that in mind. I would probably run the following set myself if I were to use it:

Poliwrath (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 68 Spd / 252 SAtk / 188 HP
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Main draw is to outspeed 0 Speed Blastoise...Haha yeah, I'm kinda sold on this one and most likely would try it out for the heck of it. Though if you suck at predicting (like me) and want to use Expert Belt, bear in mind that every 2HKO that turns into an OHKO after rocks...will still be a 2HKO, even after rocks.
 

Metal Sonic

Resurgence
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Hello everybody! Thanks for the responses. It seems that only two people weighed in on the Scrafty matter though; oh well!

It seems that there is still discussion about Poliwrath, it seems viable at first glance, but I'd like to weigh in.

The fact is that Poliwrath gets very little opportunities to stay in. Granted, it can switch in relatively easily on Water-type attacks, but what main Water attacker is there other than Suicune? Slowbro is a no-go; and SpDef Empoleon is fine with setting up Rocks/Roaring you away. This means that unless there is a Suicune that you are banking on the opponent's team, you're probably not getting Poliwrath in the game any time soon.

Furthermore, Poliwrath gets shoved out of the field by many threats: Crobat, Virizion, Shaymin, Zapdos, etc. Switching in-and-out and being weak to Spikes is not a good trait in the metagame, as I see it.

Finally, its calcs for a Specs mon aren't very good. A HydroPump cannot hurt. 60% to Raikou is not favourable, especially when you are slower than it. 2HKOs aren't impressive, what I usually look for are the OHKOs, feel free to disagree.

However, I do acknowledge its utility in a Rain team. Specs Hydro Pump with Swift Swim can be useful, somewhat. Unfortunately, Kingdra outclasses it by miles as "Leviathan of the Sea".

Unfortunately, this means that I will have to deny an application for Poliwrath in the Dean's List, unless there are more convincing arguments.

Feel free to respond to this post and persuade me that Poliwrath has the qualifications to be a UU Fighter!
 
Hello everybody! Thanks for the responses. It seems that only two people weighed in on the Scrafty matter though; oh well!

It seems that there is still discussion about Poliwrath, it seems viable at first glance, but I'd like to weigh in.

The fact is that Poliwrath gets very little opportunities to stay in. Granted, it can switch in relatively easily on Water-type attacks, but what main Water attacker is there other than Suicune? Slowbro is a no-go; and SpDef Empoleon is fine with setting up Rocks/Roaring you away. This means that unless there is a Suicune that you are banking on the opponent's team, you're probably not getting Poliwrath in the game any time soon.

Furthermore, Poliwrath gets shoved out of the field by many threats: Crobat, Virizion, Shaymin, Zapdos, etc. Switching in-and-out and being weak to Spikes is not a good trait in the metagame, as I see it.

Finally, its calcs for a Specs mon aren't very good. A HydroPump cannot hurt. 60% to Raikou is not favourable, especially when you are slower than it. 2HKOs aren't impressive, what I usually look for are the OHKOs, feel free to disagree.

However, I do acknowledge its utility in a Rain team. Specs Hydro Pump with Swift Swim can be useful, somewhat. Unfortunately, Kingdra outclasses it by miles as "Leviathan of the Sea".

Unfortunately, this means that I will have to deny an application for Poliwrath in the Dean's List, unless there are more convincing arguments.

Feel free to respond to this post and persuade me that Poliwrath has the qualifications to be a UU Fighter!
Not quite correct on some points here sonic.

Firstly, consider base speeds when negative priority moves are used in the same turn. Poliwrath will throw empoleon out before it has the chance to roar poliwrath out, due to the tie-breaker being speed.

Secondly, as for other water attackers, you've forgotten sharpedo for starters, while it can also help to check azumarril (partner it with a ghost for preference) and kingdra (steel type or something that can punish it for being locked into outrage/DM stat drop). Also fares well against the subpetaya empoleon set (if ice beam over grass knot), and against the specs set (which is apparently a thing, though watch for hp grass...). Rain sweepers such as kabutops don't think too highly of poliwrath either, despite their rarity. Dark type sweepers, while uncommon, also hate poliwrath, with only krookodile being able to deal decent neutral damage through STAB EQ.

The idea of poliwrath is to come in on a bulky water, and either proceed to phaze with circle throw (while hazards are up for preference), set up a sub and do the same, or even more annoyingly, pull the above off while also using encore/scald for extra infuriation. It can be stuffed up through U-Turn/volt switch antics or a good double switch, but ideally poliwrath shouldn't be meeting those threats without a sub up or without have selected circle throw on the predicted switch.

As an attacking option, I'd agree though. I'm really peeved that for something with the fighting type, it really got shafted in terms of good physical fighting moves. Outside of dedicated sub-punching and circle-throwing, your choices come down to brick break or submission. No drain punch, no CC, no HJK...Thats my major beef with what is otherwise a decent option as a wall, and one which can rack up damage through much phazing/scald burns.
 
Heracross is definitely my favorite fighting type in UU. But Hitmonlee is a really fun Pokemon to use, especially this set:
Hitmonlee@Liechi Berry
252atk/252spe
~Reversal
~
Earthquake
~Mach Punch
~Endure

This set is my favorite Hitmonlee set and it's a good late game sweeper. So you basically Endure down to one HP, or a really low amount of health, which isn't that challenging, and then that activates your Liechi Berry and Unburden. Then you spam Reversal and destroy the opposing team. Mach Punch is a STAB priority move while Earthquake is mainly there for coverage. You could run CC over Mach Punch for a reliable STAB though.
 
The fact is that Poliwrath gets very little opportunities to stay in. Granted, it can switch in relatively easily on Water-type attacks, but what main Water attacker is there other than Suicune? Slowbro is a no-go; and SpDef Empoleon is fine with setting up Rocks/Roaring you away. This means that unless there is a Suicune that you are banking on the opponent's team, you're probably not getting Poliwrath in the game any time soon.

Furthermore, Poliwrath gets shoved out of the field by many threats: Crobat, Virizion, Shaymin, Zapdos, etc. Switching in-and-out and being weak to Spikes is not a good trait in the metagame, as I see it.
Swampert, Azumarill, Blastoise, Milotic, and Sharpedo.

Metal Sonic, I feel that it be in your best interest to familiarize yourself with the other Water-types available to UU. All of these, with the exception of Kingdra, Poliwrath is beyond capable of switching into. In doing so, I personally may be able to take you a bit more seriously. Little opportunities to stay in? More often than not, if you're using Poliwrath correctly, it'll be behind a Substitute. There isn't that need for worrying about 16 or so Pokemon (that I believe would immediately threaten Poliwrath if not behind a Substitite) coming in and keeping it from doing what Poliwrath needs to do. Being Spikes-weak is not a good trait to have for this metagame? Then you obviously believe that the majority of UU are lacking, that they're not good enough because they take hazards damage. This is a piss-poor argument on its own, since every Fighting- and Water-type in the tier is weak to Spikes. In fact, there's only 14 Pokemon in the tier that are immune to it. As I see it, you're almost "hatewagoning" the idea of Poliwrath because you don't believe it can compete with the tier due to its RU status. Poliwrath is a very exclusive Pokemon, as there are no other Pokemon that can reliably phaze, beat Snorlax / P2 / Umbreon, and absorb Scald and other Water-types without impunity. For your benefit Metal Sonic, I'll list the other Pokemon that Poliwrath can switch-in on with 100% safety:

Bulky Arcanine, Bisharp, Bronzong, Claydol, Darmanitan, Dusclops, Agility Empoleon, Gligar, Hitmontop, Houndoom, Scrafty, Bulky Snorlax, Registeel, Rhyperior, Umbreon, and Weavile. Seems like Poliwrath can easily switch in on a fair bit of the tier, hey?

Understandably, Poliwrath isn't going to be besting the likes of Heracross, Mienshao, and Scrafty. As a Fighting-type, it's not that good. It's no sweeper. Likewise, it's not a Water-type sweeper either. It just takes the bulkier aspects of both types, and comes out of it with what it can. Are its stats lacking? Yes, definitely. Does it have obvious weaknesses? Yes, and many other Pokemon do too. Quit glaring at just the obvious flaws, and take from Poliwrath what can be taken. It's not a top-tier threat, but something that has use in the tier.

Finally, its calcs for a Specs mon aren't very good. A HydroPump cannot hurt. 60% to Raikou is not favourable, especially when you are slower than it. 2HKOs aren't impressive, what I usually look for are the OHKOs, feel free to disagree.
This however, I'll agree with, as I do believe that Poiwrath on its own only has one or two very specific niches to UU, and opting to use Choice Specs is an absollute waste of its usage and something it should always stay away from.
 

Metal Sonic

Resurgence
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Hey Pokemazter and silenced! Thanks for the reply regarding Poliwrath!

Thanks for clarifying the fact that the bulky set should be used instead; I had misinterpreted the set to be a Choice Specs set as suggested by others instead.

I agree with the point that I have underestimated the amount of opportunities that Poliwrath can switch in on. It is true that there are a lot more switch in opportunities for Poliwrath to switch in on, like Sharpedo, Blastoise and Milotic.

I believe @Pokemazter has misunderstood my point regarding being Spikes-weak. I had meant to say that owing to the large amount of possible Pokemon that can force Poliwrath out, and that it has to switch in and out alot, being Spikes weak in this metagame does not contribute to its "bulky" factor. However, your point is noted.

I believe that there is a consensus that Choice Specs Poliwrath is poor, however Pokemazter and silenced have both convinced me that Circle Throw Poliwrath is a deserving candidate for the Dean's list!

I will write up his application to include in the first post in a while(maybe tomorrow)

If you'd like, you can also help to write out his application, and I shall copy-paste-edit it.

Thank you all for your generous discussions and contributions!
 

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