Big Everybody Votes Mafia Game Over; Democracy and Communism win


dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
(3:52:53 pm) <12@ALIKRIEGER11> Walrein=+walrein@298D92BF.A6E44778.C65091FD.IP Theo=+Theo@298D92BF.A6E44778.C65091FD.IP
(3:52:53 pm) <06&LightWolf> I'm p sure you pronounce it side though
(3:52:56 pm) <12@ALIKRIEGER11> yea
(3:52:59 pm) <12@ALIKRIEGER11> its walrein
(3:53:04 pm) <06&LightWolf> bwahhahaha
(3:53:04 pm) <12@ALIKRIEGER11> im a beast
(3:53:10 pm) <06&LightWolf> OHHHHHHHhh
(3:53:13 pm) <06&LightWolf> that explains this
(3:53:28 pm) <12@ALIKRIEGER11> hes afraid we're going to lynch him tomorrow
(3:53:30 pm) <06&LightWolf> [00:04] * Walrein_ ( has joined #clandestine
(3:53:30 pm) <06&LightWolf> [00:05] * Walrein ( Quit (NickServ (GHOST command used by Walrein_))
(3:53:30 pm) <06&LightWolf> [00:05] * Walrein_ is now known as Walrein
(3:53:30 pm) <06&LightWolf> [00:05] * mortal_wombat ( has joined #clandestine
(3:53:36 pm) <06&LightWolf> he DCed at this point
(3:53:39 pm) <12@ALIKRIEGER11> lol
(3:53:41 pm) <06&LightWolf> but two nicks joined
(3:54:13 pm) <12@ALIKRIEGER11> man im da best
I admit completely that I wanted the village to win here, not because they deserved it at all (let's be real, about two of you were competent), but because if AG won after we could've pushed for a guaranteed win with him, I probably would've lost it.

Walrein if you insist on following the anon nick strategy, never have it on the same client (if you didn't have the right modes on, we also could've figured out who you were by CTCPing) and in the same channels. Its extremely difficult to set up and correctly use an anon nick that nobody can see through, which is probably a good thing.

edit: nvm I did not see postgame was up. I will probably post a larger post because it's not a postgame without a jumpluff tl;dr but thank you for your recognition, von!
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First of all, I was all geared up to start ranting at everyone, but von gave me tied-MVP with Yeti so it's like I won anyway and so I'm not mad anymore.

Firstly I think this was one of the better bigs we've had in awhile, although there were a bunch of balance decisions I definitely wouldn't've made (they were certainly very audacious) and I would've made all the teams smaller, although I appreciate what von was going for with the 'plausibility of double roles'. I thought the vote action system was great and added a lot of strategic potential in; we just, you know, kind of strangled the village, most of who were apparently MIA for most of the game. I also enjoyed the themed factions, although I really don't think it would've hurt to weaken the Fascist's lynch control a little or add a single extra Oligarch. I simply don't believe we could've come so close to winning (and we basically had it at one point until AG wimped out, which to my utter glee caused him to ultimately lose as well -- it's not personal, but carpe diem, AG) if it weren't for the catastrophic mistakes of the village, in particular an idle inspector. I am, however, proud that we pulled off a very prolonged mole with zorbees faking inspector; it took a lot of efforts from him, Yeti, and me to keep the mole going, and we fully exploited the village's apathy. Especially since I made an error in his fake role PM out of paranoia (I didn't think nearly every single role PM would start 'Born ___', and it took ages for someone who didn't have that format to die).

I also wrote my own fake and a new fake for aska (the latter of which took me an hour and never got used, thanks for that). Since the village had no reported ability checker, we were going to falsify results (with our rather vast knowledge of the game) and try to mole with aska as a surefire role claim, but he told us it was futile to claim and went off to play Hearthstone some more. I really respect aska, but in retrospect I regret not asking for him to subbed when he told us he was going to play Hearthstone instead of putting effort in, because there was no deadtalk rule (which potentially could've screwed us over a lot, as UncleSam was essentially invincible and our faction's whole strength was combined brainpower), but I did it out of deference, which was a mistake. I would've rather had a mediocre player we could have forced to be active than a good player who didn't want to play. I did ask von to talk to him and LW about activity and LW did start putting effort in then, and provided endless entertainment for Yeti and me, so that's something. I will take partial responsibility for our extremely stubborn 'fight-fire-with-fire' brand of diplomacy, but to be fair UncleSam threw endless hissy fits.

I have to respect US (and B_T) for their diplomatic efforts. While I think their planning was merely sufficient at best given their absurd role strength differential, and their team's fakes absolutely awful, they could have saved the game with their boldness and relentlessness, and they proved more of a problem for us than the village ever was. I still didn't want the rest of the Fascists to win, though, so I'm pleased with this outcome.

Some incredibly powerful things, like the perpetual vote action rogue or vote meddling AG's vigilante (which was part of our win condition if AG cooperated, but I think DLE could have blocked it if he knew what was happening? if Tesung seriously told AG he was a mole, how the hell did AG keep talking to DLE/not warn us?), never really came into play, and I think the anti-village neutrals all made mistakes by going to the Fascists and generally ignoring us early when it was semi-obvious we were in control. By the time Paperblade showed up to try to get zorbees to join his team, we kind of had to kill him off, and he was extremely weak because of his failure to obtain good vote actions, which we would have considered giving him. I think killing the wolves early was the best thing for us to do and that we still could've won this way; it would have been extremely difficult to control them and we didn't have the sort of control necessary to override that many variables.

Unfortunately idling problems plagued our team as much as they plagued the village. I found the dynamics of the mafia teams hilarious in consideration of the game flavour, but it also manifested as 'too many cooks'; essentially, we disagreed constantly on the best course of action, which caused a constant stagnation of activity along with zorbees's irl problems, which nobody can fault him for. It became necessary for me to sub out before the win was cemented, and I feel partially responsible because I feel like maybe I could have saved things or at least been there when Yeti had to run the faction by herself, but there's no way to know, and I did invest an incredible amount of effort in this game during my finals period when half the team was missing so I'm just gonna blame other people instead.

I spent a lot of time talking to billy and ipl this game, and while I think billy probably could have been more aggressive in getting his message out there (and he knows he shouldn't've talked to Celever), he was one of the biggest threats for us this game and extremely on the ball. ipl obviously played extremely well, which is why we killed him (extremely suspiciously, I might add). Sorry! While Snype is as responsible as anyone else for the complete and utter earlygame collapse of the village, at a time when the village should have been quite powerful, he did get his shit together at the end (and attempted to make a completely bizarre bargain with the Fascists very early on, so, uh, I guess he was paying attention). Yeti and zorbees also worked really hard for our team, and while we generally had to prompt LW into talking to US, nobody else could've done it in the position we were in and what he said mostly did represent our feelings. Usually.

Ultimately I am glad we went out on our own sword as much as anyone else's. While I found this game immensely stressful due to the amount of problems we had to contend with and the amount of effort I invested, I was put on a team with four people I quite like (and later in the game we co-opted billy and Bass for our channel), which was enjoyable. The wolves were also really cool as well, and von made very few mistakes, especially considering he had no cohost, so props for that. For those who paid attention and put actual effort into following the game, this game was one of the more interesting ones in awhile on multiple levels.

edit: Agape I am not sure we could've won through a continued mole at the point Yeti and US began competing for the village's favour, but fwiw I was highly in favour of that strategy as well for as long as it worked. I consider one of the most important things in convincing uninvested people to do shit to be projecting a sense of authority and control.

edit2: Also I fully own our mistakes, noting that we managed to avert some of them at least.
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I am always tired. Don't bother me.
Even though my mole attempt on Cypher ended up failing, I thought this log was very amusing and worth sharing:

Acklow: quick question, I need to know who your killer is for everyone votes, because we need to make sure your kill goes through
[6:25pm] Acklow: we don’t wanna crossfire!!
[6:25pm] Acklow: :o
[6:27pm] Cypher: idk, I haven't paid much attention recently. Who is the main target?
[6:27pm] Acklow: the targets are oligarchy/villagers
[6:28pm] Acklow: we need to ensure their kill goes off
[6:28pm] Acklow: by their I mean you
[6:28pm] Acklow: sorry
[6:29pm] Cypher: wait what are you village/oligrachy/fascist/anarchy/something else???
[6:30pm] Acklow: anarchy
[6:30pm] Acklow: we want to make sure your kill goes through
[6:31pm] Acklow: we need your killer’s alias because we’ll use our actions to make sure the oligarchy doesn’t hook him
[6:33pm] Cypher: idk you have to talk to someone else about that since I don't think I am allowed to disclose that information?
[6:35pm] Acklow: look, UncleSam asked me via pm earlier but I haven’t had the chance to talk with him so I was hoping you could help me out here since you’re his teammate
[6:36pm] Acklow: I need to know now because my teammate won’t be online later and I’m leaving in a little bit
[6:37pm] Cypher: is deadline tonight?
[6:37pm] Acklow: and we need to make sure we get the action in
[6:39pm] Cypher: can I see your role pm though to make sure you're not joshing me???
[6:39pm] Acklow: yeah hang on lemme pull it up
[6:39pm] Acklow: also deadline is tomorrow but my teammate is an idler and I’m busy all day tomorrow
[6:39pm] Acklow: :\
[6:39pm] Cypher: ah
[6:43pm] Acklow: k
[6:43pm] Acklow: Dear Tyrannosaurus, You are Klarion the Witch Boy. You are a practitioner of the dark arts. Etrigan, your arch-rival, fights against you in battles of sorcery. You are mad that all of the adults always told you what to do. Your cat Teekl and you are tired of being told what to do, and you are going to show them who is boss. You don’t really care who wins as long as there is chaos. So you fight to make sure that anarchy reigns. -VOTE WATCHER- Much of your power is tied to your familiar, Teekl. At night you may have it watch ALIAS. You will learn all who targeted them.
[6:43pm] Acklow: A reprehensible trickster, you are pretending to be everyone’s new favorite hero Tigress. When inspected by the Democracy you will show up as such, Role PM included below. This is not your typical mole however. YOU MAY NOT EVER SHARE VILLAGE INFO WITH THE MAFIA OR ANYONE ELSE WHO OPPOSES THE VILLAGE. I will godkill you. Don’t even try it. Don’t stretch the rules, don’t wink, don’t leave coded messages. You aren’t a mole, that’s not fun enough. You are a saboteur. You can vote for night actions as if you were a Democrat. Your goal should be to give the village bad advice and subtly steer them towards destruction. Again, do not share village info with the mafia.
[6:43pm] Acklow: You are allied with Anarchy. You win if either Fascism or Oligarchy win, but only if you survive until the end.
[6:44pm] Acklow: anyways
[6:44pm] Acklow: we need to know who your killer is because my partner’s role will make sure that your kill goes through
[6:45pm] Cypher: isn't your partner the joker, who's night action is a vilgilante
[6:45pm] Acklow: yea
[6:46pm] Cypher: how does that make sure that a kill goes through
[6:46pm] Acklow: sorry I meant our vote action
[6:46pm] Acklow: not my partner’s action lol
[6:46pm] Cypher: oh
[6:48pm] Acklow: well??
[6:49pm] Cypher: I still don't get it. You took a role pm posted in the thread and pasted it here. Can you explain that part
[6:50pm] Acklow: dle is oligarchy but he claimed my role :o
[6:51pm] Acklow: I told him about my role and he did that >:(
[6:51pm] Cypher: :(
[6:51pm] Cypher: I don't know who to trust thennnnnnnnnnn
[6:52pm] Acklow: you can trust me
[6:53pm] Cypher: But serious though, I can't give you the kill since I can't 100% trust you.
[6:53pm] Cypher: Also can't you just send in your partner's vote if he's being inactive, especially since you're a duo and probably going to have the same votes?
[6:55pm] Acklow: yes but we need your killer’s alias to make sure that goes through
[6:55pm] Acklow: I mean I can vote for my partner
[6:56pm] Acklow: but I need the alias to make sure your kill goes through successfully
[6:59pm] Acklow: ??
[7:00pm] Acklow: I have to go in literally 10 minutes
[7:00pm] Cypher: Sorry, I had to throw out trash. Also, I'll tell you tomorrow. I really can't give you anything since I can't 50%+ trust you
[7:00pm] Acklow: like I said, I’m busy all day tomorrow
[7:01pm] Acklow: I want to get this in because I doubt I’ll have the chance to submit everything tomorrow
[7:01pm] Cypher: Sorry :(
[7:02pm] Acklow: k I have one last thing then,
[7:02pm] Acklow: can you at least confirm if Medusa is your killer, because according to some info I received earlier, Medusa might be
[7:02pm] Acklow: but I’m not sure if that’s true
[7:02pm] Acklow: I’m submitting my actions now since I have to leave
[7:03pm] Cypher: icncnd
[7:03pm] Acklow: I mean I understand why you can’t trust me but I’m being honest here
[7:05pm] Cypher: I really can't give information as well. I mean, it can jeopardize everything.
[7:06pm] Acklow: z.z
[7:06pm] Acklow: fine
[7:07pm] Acklow: but
[7:07pm] Acklow: don’t come to me if US chews you out over the kill not going through and your team loses the game
[7:07pm] Acklow: :\
[7:10pm] Acklow: k
[7:10pm] Acklow: bye
[7:11pm] Cypher: bye


dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
jumpluff your wish is my command. ps ur laptop not connecterino to irc ;(

(7:24:24 pm) <Yeti> yo why are you voting kobold
(7:24:49 pm) <Yeti> zorbees is very confused
(7:24:52 pm) <Aura_Guardian> because, upon analyzing the situation, this is what I think best
(7:24:54 pm) <Yeti> he wants troll dead
(7:25:21 pm) <Yeti> u are buffoon
(7:25:27 pm) <Yeti> u do not win easily like this
(7:25:29 pm) <Yeti> get rid of the wolf
(7:25:53 pm) <Yeti> you win with the mafias right
(7:25:57 pm) <Aura_Guardian> the wolf's killing power is on enough cooldown that we can afford the wait
(7:25:59 pm) <Aura_Guardian> wait, what?
(7:25:59 pm) <Yeti> why would you lynch what seems to be one
(7:26:31 pm) <Yeti> idk
(7:26:36 pm) <Yeti> i heard that from ppl
(7:26:49 pm) <Yeti> if you're village why aren't you following zorbees
(7:26:58 pm) <Aura_Guardian> I disagree with him on this
(7:27:01 pm) <Yeti> if you're neut why are you trying to harm someone you can win with
(7:27:08 pm) <Yeti> lynch troll pls
(7:27:09 pm) <Aura_Guardian> ... what?
(7:27:19 pm) <Aura_Guardian> kobold isn't village, according to this spread
(7:27:24 pm) <Yeti> neither are you.
(7:28:06 pm) <Yeti> lynch troll pls
(7:28:11 pm) <Yeti> better for everyone involved
(7:28:16 pm) <Aura_Guardian> so, you're oligarchy, then?
(7:28:25 pm) <Yeti> i am a benevolent spectator
(7:28:39 pm) <Yeti> but you need to vote troll, not kobold
(7:28:42 pm) <Yeti> to advance your wc
(7:28:59 pm) <Yeti> you do not want either mafia to lose ppl bc you can win with them
(7:29:01 pm) <Yeti> thus lynch the wolf
(7:29:11 pm) <Yeti> not to mention you're blowing your cover to zorbees disobeying his target
(7:29:33 pm) <Aura_Guardian> what are you talking about?
(7:30:00 pm) <Yeti> i know you are anarchy
(7:30:02 pm) <Yeti> stop the charade
(7:30:04 pm) <Yeti> and vote troll
(7:30:06 pm) <Yeti> kthx
(7:30:11 pm) <Aura_Guardian> so you *are* Oligarchy, then
(7:30:15 pm) <Yeti> no
(7:30:21 pm) <Yeti> but i know your wincon
(7:30:26 pm) <Yeti> and i dont understand why you are lynching a mafian
(7:30:28 pm) <Yeti> when you can win
(7:30:29 pm) <Yeti> with either
(7:30:29 pm) <Aura_Guardian> and how would you know such a thing?
(7:30:35 pm) <Yeti> MaGiC
(7:30:38 pm) <Yeti> i talk to ppl
(7:30:39 pm) <Aura_Guardian> did you sub out or something?
(7:30:44 pm) <Aura_Guardian> wait
(7:30:46 pm) <Yeti> no
(7:31:18 pm) <Aura_Guardian> then what *are* you?
(7:31:27 pm) <Yeti> a concerned bystander
(7:31:50 pm) <Aura_Guardian> what's YOUR wincon?
(7:31:52 pm) <Yeti> if you are village you are screwing them over not following zorbees, but you are not, so you are screwing YOURSELF over lynching a mafian off
(7:32:33 pm) <Yeti> do i need to get ur role pm bucko
(7:32:57 pm) <Aura_Guardian> what manner of neutral are you?
(7:33:22 pm) <Yeti> can u stop
(7:33:24 pm) <Yeti> and vote troll
(7:33:27 pm) <Yeti> you know your own wc
(7:33:32 pm) <Yeti> you win with one of the mafias, not the wolves
(7:33:34 pm) <Yeti> so lynch the wolf
(7:33:50 pm) <Yeti> You are allied with Anarchy. You win if either Fascism or Oligarchy win, but only if you survive until the end.
(7:33:53 pm) <Yeti> i dont see theocracy
(7:33:54 pm) <Yeti> do u????
(7:33:55 pm) <Aura_Guardian> WHAT MANNER OF NEUTRAL ARE YOU???
(7:34:00 pm) <Yeti> im not a neutral
(7:34:12 pm) <Aura_Guardian> then you're a mafian
(7:34:18 pm) <Aura_Guardian> to know that
(7:34:27 pm) <Yeti> ok so why are u not listening
(7:34:40 pm) <Aura_Guardian> a Fascist would not try and do that
(7:34:43 pm) <Yeti> the village has 0 chance of winning zorbees is a sad kid with his fellow villagers
(7:34:43 pm) <Aura_Guardian> so you're Oligarchy
(7:34:46 pm) <Yeti> lynch troll
(7:34:50 pm) <Yeti> bc you cannot win with troll
(7:34:54 pm) <Yeti> and just coast to your win
(7:34:54 pm) <Yeti> kthx
(7:34:59 pm) <Aura_Guardian> seriously
(7:35:07 pm) <Aura_Guardian> you're not answering my question
(7:35:24 pm) <Yeti> i can win with u
(7:35:26 pm) <Yeti> take it easy
(7:35:27 pm) <Aura_Guardian> though I can tell you're oligarchy
(7:35:30 pm) <Aura_Guardian> wait
(7:35:32 pm) <Aura_Guardian> are you anarchy, too?
(7:36:20 pm) <Yeti> my brother i found you at last
(7:36:54 pm) <Aura_Guardian> except US just named you as Oligarchy
(7:36:54 pm) <Aura_Guardian> so... yeah
(7:37:06 pm) <Aura_Guardian> frankly, what you've said has only painted you as that
(7:37:14 pm) <Yeti> why are u talking
(7:37:15 pm) <Yeti> to unclesam
(7:38:14 pm) <Yeti> can i speak with a more agreeable member of ur organization
(7:38:17 pm) <Aura_Guardian> maybe my vote was to TIE it

(7:35:32 pm) <Aura_Guardian> are you anarchy, too?
(7:36:20 pm) <Yeti> my brother i found you at last

(7:36:54 pm) <Aura_Guardian> except US just named you as Oligarchy
man screw you UncleSam I almost had him ;(
gg to all! It was a really gritty win, and honestly, I didn't really contibute anything of importance (although I made more contibution then I did in shinyskarmory's NOC, seriously my nooby...ness was the punchline of that game). However, it was really fun to play and that's all that really matters.. heh heh... right?
Brownie points to PokéguyNXB for showing more vital signs than about thirty other people in the game. The rest of you should be ashamed.

Pokéguy, can you figure out a way to get on IRC that doesn't involve your ereader?


is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I am sorry that I was not active. False claiming in this game was so difficult that I figured "why bother" until I realized too late that my team had done literally all of the hard work for me. I did become reacquainted with the game by night 3, but by that point my fate was already sealed.

Apologies again to my team and to von.


Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
We had good reasoning (imo) for doing the stuff we did, Don't remember everything but here's some of it: We feared Paperblade would expose me as mafia if he couldn't recruit me. Plus we had a plan to win alongside Anarchy, which apparently wouldn't have worked anyways due to tesung/dle being a reverse reverse miller or whatever. (I assumed the 2 Anarchy, who couldn't control their actions but were anti-town moles, were counterparts of the 2 Communists, who could control their backups and had the extra vote bonus, but were pro-town millers). I had Acklow/pluff as suspicious on sheet because it'd be strange not to, the only non-suspect people were cleaned via some means, or the only VOTE ACTION of their type, or me. Plus IIRC Aura Guardian did that so blame him.

I don't really see how the village was supposed to lose this game except for 2 cases. 1) tons of incompetency (we worked hard to remove the competent players, billymills and ipl, who didn't even start in the game lol), and 2) tons of kills from the wolves with next to no crossfire.

The village had two Vote Vigilantes and tons of numbers. The Voting mechanism could have cleaned more people early on except I tried to do as little as possible in revealing what the votes meant. RBG could have counterclaimed and damaged my moling ability, but for some reason he thought there would be two inspects, yet was fine with not having sheet access all game long. The village also had tons of useful roles, plus useful secondary abilities on most people. As if having an inspector and an alliance checker wasn't enough, HD also had 2 alliance checks to use. As if having a VOTE BACKUP wasn't enough, they had the communists who could back up stuff, plus Ace Emerald's secondary. They had 2 VOTE SAFEGUARDs. Etc etc.
zorbees: I suspected you were oligarchy anyway because LW was like "Yeah we'll get you vote actions" and then after I claimed4real and you gave me legit actions he decided nah fuck that + all US seemed pretty confident. I was mostly in denial because no one had CC'd ;_;

I doubt I would've outed you anyway since that seemed like a great way to get the village to kill me
I don't understand these claims of fakeclaiming being difficult. Von gave the mafia ideas for the vote action and even was so generous as to give unused supers as well. As for the Born ___ start, did you ask for him to review your fakes? He's done that in the past small mafia games, at least.

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