Everyday is opposite day- Trick Room time!

Suicunes_Secret

Double Battle Standard 6 on 6

Trick room! (sorry bout the crappy title) I've been breeding TR pokes for ages now and it's about time I get some use out of them! Feel free to tear it up, but don't be nasty or anything. Hope it's good enough, because I spent forever breeding some of these pokes. If radical pokemon or moveset change is needed though, I'm game.


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Hariyama@ Flame Orb
Guts
Brave
252 Hp/ 252 Atk

Fake Out
Close combat?
Rock Slide
Fire Punch/Ice punch/ t punch?

The sumo leads with Zong for setup. I know Follow me is a usual, less riskey set up for TR, but I choose this dudes Fake Out because I don't want to sacrafice two pokes for set up. I'm a bit torn over Protect, he only needs it if bronzong blows up. Othwerwise, he is just a physical sweeper plain and simple.

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Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Levitate
Relaxed/Sassy

252 Hp/???
TR
Explosion
Gyro Ball
Hypnosis

Most common TR starter, here he is- the moveset seems good. He should probably explode on turn two, but there is a chance he could set up stealth rocks or put someone to sleep before he goes out. The nature and EVs are in question here- should i go all out defensive to survive turn one or go Brave to give explosion more power?

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Marowak@ Thick Club
Lightningrod
Brave
252 hp/252 atk

Rock Slide
Fire punch
Boomerang
Protect

Sweeper, plain and simple. The Sword Dance option remains but in TR you need "to go" power because of the time constraints. The loss of EQ is tragic but nessecary.

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Slowking @ Lefties
Own Temo
Sassy
252 hp/ 252 sp.atk

Grass Knot
Nasty Plot
TR
Psychic

Special wall and TR support. Seems surdy enough to last for a TR setup, and nasty plot is a bit risky- should i scrap it in favor of a more defensive moveset? Surf has been lost, so what move should be placed in the final moveslot?

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Camerupt @ Lefties
Quiet
252 hp/ 252 sp.atk

Eruption
HP Ice<-boo ho i dont to give it up but i could replace it with solarbeam.
Earth Power
Explosion/ Solarbeam

Eruption is scary in 2 on 2 running on TR. He will replace Bronzong after zong explodes, and lay waste to the other side with eruption. Resistant types pose an issue. of course- I've tried to cover that with Camerupts other moves and his team mates types/movesets.


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Dusknoir @ Lefties
Brave
252 hp/ 252 atk

Trick Room
T-punch
Ice punch
Sucker punch

Hariyama will be be switched out for this guy when zong explodes, thus saving hariyamas fake out for later set ups. Offenseive wit Brave, covers Gyra wih Tpunch nd Dragons ith Ice. I have a lot of Ice on my team already, however- could be replaced with taunt or pain split.
 
Lefties for sure on Hari. Give Zong the standard TR ev spread and give it Lefties. EQ > Bonmerang on Marowak. Slack Off on Slowking. Explosion on Camerupt because you do not want to waste a turn of TR with Protect. Dusknoir seems better than Pory. Just be sure to give it T-punch to take care of Gyarados.
 
Trick Room teams definitely shouldn't just have 6 slow pokemons. You need a relatively fast pokemon to take care of your opponent when Trick Room isn't in effect. Without a speedy Pokemon, during late games when presumably all your trick roomers are gone, you will have trouble against standard pokemons which are moderately fast, except they would be VERY fast compared to your pokemon. This is why I'm thinking a scarfer or something like Weavile or Deoxys-E can do very well in this team.

Anyway, with that issue out of the way, lets go back to the team. Bronzong should go Relax for its nature so it can be as slow as possible. Make sure you have 0 EVs in speed and have a minimum of 2 IVs and maximum of 4. This will allow you to outspeed other Bronzongs before Trick Room takes effect in order to hypnotize it first. Bronzong would be a better lead than Hariyama by the way, as you can set up as soon as the match begins.

I don't see why you are using Life Orb on Hariyama. With Burn Orb, you will take 2.5% more damage but you can hit harder with it. Fake Out will act like a Protect for you and will activate the Orb next turn. Also, why is Fire Punch on there? It's totally useless. Replace it for Bullet Punch for priority. Why is Fire Punch useless you ask? Let's take a look at the base power...
Close Combat = 120 base power. With STAB, it becomes a base 180.
Fire Punch = 75 base power. With a super effective damage, it becomes a base 150.
You see, either way, Close Combat will always deal more damage.

Porygon2 has better things to do than set up Trick Room. I recommend replacing this for, as I stated above, a speedy pokemon.
 
Despair not, my friend! A rater who understands that this is a Doubles team has arrived!

First of all, post your Pokémon's abilities. I'll give my recommendations below, but post them during your next edit, if you would.

Haryama: Trick Room only lasts five turns, so after it's up you want to hit fast and hard. I highly recommend Guts and Flame Orb. I'm assuming that 'CC' means Close Combat, not Cross Chop. Type out the whole move, man! :) Close Combat is nice, but makes you faint very quickly. I'd try Cross Chop over it if you ever feel that you want to retrain it. Your EVs should really be 252 Defense and 252 Special Defense, but if you find that you're still KOed too quickly and you want to hit harder, give it however much Attack you want and divide the rest evenly between Defense and Special Defense; HP EVs are not the most efficient way to increase Hariyama's durability. It's a better idea to switch in a Ghost-type for the purposes of Bronzong's Explosion, so you shouldn't need Protect. Why Fire Punch over Ice Punch, out of curiosity?

Bronzong: Standard Trick Room 'Zong. Hypnosis is almost always preferable to Stealth Rock in Doubles. Stealth Rock will ruin Focus Sashes, but that's usually about all it'll do for you. The Lum Berry is necessary to make sure you get off your Trick Room. Don't change that. Levitate is nearly always the better ability on Bronzong and this case is no exception. Choose either Sassy or Relaxed for your nature. As for EVs, max out HP just like you have already, and give the rest to Attack and the defensive stat that your nature isn't raising. Divvy it up however you like. Do some Explosion damage calcs if you're having trouble making up your mind.

Marowak: Marowak should have Lightningrod. You may only have one Electric weakness on your team, but I guarantee you'll be getting more use out of it than Rock Head. On that subject, ditch Double-Edge and give it Protect. You won't want to waste a lot of turns protecting during Trick Room, but you'll be able to dodge Explosions from Camerupt and Bronzong if nothing else. Other than that, it looks great. Definitely don't replace Bonemerang with Earthquake. Your team can't take quakes well and Bonemerang has a lot of advantages (100 power, breaking subs, bypassing Shuca Berry on the second hit).

Slowking: You do not need a wall on a Doubles team, let alone a Doubles Trick Room team. What I'm trying to say is that you should remove all those EVs from Special Defense and put them in Special Attack. It'll still take special hits just fine with a Sassy nature and all those HP EVs. In fact, you're better off with a Quiet nature since your Speical Attack is going to end up being higher than your Special Defense. Try out Nasty Plot, but if you find that you're wasting too many Trick Room turns on setup, replace it with another attack, like Ice Beam, Psychic, or Fire Blast. In fact, I'd say Psychic's the most important move to have here. Grass Knot is secondary. Slack Off is nice I guess, but you need at least two damaging attacks. Own Tempo is the preferred ability here. Leftovers are fine, but you might find you get better use out of some power-boosting item like Life Orb, Wise Glasses, or TwistedSpoon.

Camerupt: If you already have a Camerupt with Hidden Power Ice, then kudos to you. You'll probably want to keep that, I suppose. If you don't already have it, or even if you do and you're not particularly attached to it, replace it with SolarBeam and give your Camerupt a Power Herb. This trick is an oldie but a goodie and provides you with some much-needed firepower against Water-types that your team otherwise lacks. Of course, it doesn't help all that much against a Rain Dance team, so keep your eyes open for that. I'd go for Explosion in your last slot so that you can take advantage of Camerupt's base 100 Attack score. Solid Rock is the better ability here.

Porygon2: Replace this with Dusknoir, just like you're thinking. I love P2, but this team needs Dusknoir more.

Dusknoir: Make sure it can hit hard; it can't afford to stall once Trick Room is up. In fact, make it Brave and give it max EVs in HP and Attack. Give it ThunderPunch and Ice Punch if you want it to fill the role that P2 had. I'd recommend Shadow Sneak for the last slot. With it you'll be able to outspeed your opponent's priority attacks and avoid Sucker Punch as long as Trick Room is active. Taunt is another nice option that your team doesn't currently have. Experiment and see what works best for your team.

Hope that helped. Looks like a solid Trick Room team overall. PM me if you'd like to battle sometime.

EDIT: Also, I like the RMT title.
 
WOW, thanks for all the awesome advice! I'm sorry that the abilities are missing for some of them, that's a big mistake! Here' what I'm going to say in a general reply:

Bronzong: Pretty much set already, EVs need tweaking but I'll do some calcs when I have more time.

Hariyama: I CANNOT understand how I forgot about Flame Orb/Guts on Hariyama! That's why I choose him in the first place! Hope that clears some stuff up. Yes, CC is Close Combat, sorry. And fire punch really is useless? I had my suspisions but im pissed that i spent those stupid BP on it already... In regards to TheMaskedNitpicker's EV spread: I thought HP EVs where always the main stat in increase in any pkmn for all around defense, but i guess i was mistaken. And Cross Chops accuuracy is low, and since Haryima has a flame orb anyhow, i like the accuracy of Close combat better dispite the lowered durability. However, I will seriously consider your Hariyama suggestions for a while before i EV train him or set the moveset.

Marowak: You are all too right here, TheMaskedNitpicker. Unfoutunately the Marowak i breed has Rock Head, but i can at least use him as a parent for a Lightningrod one... Boomerang, of course, Camperupt and Slowking can't risk an EQ from thier own teammate.

Camerupt: Yes, i DO have a great one with HP ice! My first hidden power project and it turned out great with base 70 power plus triple flawless... but solarbeam sounds like a good idea, since camperupt and my team need a way to better handle bulky waters. Solid Rock, of course.

Slowking: I think I'll keep Sassy for survivability, and thanks for letting me know i need more offense on this dude, because i do. Own Tempo, of course.

DUSKY OVER P2. After thinking about it I know it's a sure bet. He will have t-punch and Ice punch, and I'm hatching Brave ones right now.

A speedy poke? For now I won't bother, once I test my team I'll see if I need it. I'm going all-out TR for now.
 
I wouldn't say that Fire Punch is useless. It's just that Ice Punch is the better choice. It gives you more type coverage with Fighting and Rock.

Tou're right that with most Pokémon you want to max HP for general survivability. The reason for this is that you're trying to get your HP stat equal to your Defense plus your Special Defense, or thereabouts. However, Hariyama's HP is so high that you're better off with those points in the defenses. That's why. :)

I think the person who said you needed a speedy Pokémon thought that this was a Singles team. If it were, that would be good advice. Since it's Doubles and you have three Trick Room users, I don't recommend anything fast. It would just limit your options and slow you down, so to speak.
 
TheMaskedNitpicker said:
I wouldn't say that Fire Punch is useless. It's just that Ice Punch is the better choice.

Tou're right that with most Pokémon you want to max HP for general survivability. The reason for this is that you're trying to get your HP stat equal to your Defense plus your Special Defense, or thereabouts. However, Hariyama's HP is so high that you're better off with those points in the defenses. That's why. :)
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Hmm, Thanks! I would have just gone standard on Hariyama for EVs but your right!

Back to Emerald for more Battle factory to earn 48 pnts from the ground up to get Ice Punch! Hindsights 20/20.... uggh.

And thanks again, TheMaskedNitpicker- your insight was priceless and I'd love to battle your Trick Room team when I'm ready!
 
You're welcome! Also, I didn't mean to make it sound like I personally had a Trick Room team. I've just fought a ton of them on PBR and I know from experience what works and what doesn't. I definitely have some Doubles teams though, so I eagerly await your challenge.

P.S. Since you worked so hard on that awesome Camerupt, it seems a shame not to use Hidden Power. I say go for it. You'll get more enjoyment knowing that your time was well-spent.
 
TheMaskedNitpicker said:
You're welcome! Also, I didn't mean to make it sound like I personally had a Trick Room team. I've just fought a ton of them on PBR and I know from experience what works and what doesn't. I definitely have some Doubles teams though, so I eagerly await your challenge.

P.S. Since you worked so hard on that awesome Camerupt, it seems a shame not to use Hidden Power. I say go for it. You'll get more enjoyment knowing that your time was well-spent.
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Oh! Sorry, you seemed to know what TR is all about so I just assumed you had raised a TR team yourself. But you know what happens we we assume... :P

Yup, i'm keeping hidden power because I busted my ass for it.. if i find i hardly ever use it i'll replace it. But only AFTER I kill a few garchomps and salmences with it.. lol.
 
Not too sure how common 2v2 is but aren't most common leads the double Intimidating Salamence+Gyarados, which could pose problems? You could always try to slap a Clefable over that Hariyama spot. Still gets Follow Me, but can threaten with Ice Beam or Thunderbolt, perhaps have an Encore if you can catch something, or just set Stealth Rocks so you won't encounter any annoying Focus Sashers.
 
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