Ferrothorn

Remember that 12% of the opponent's HP is not necessarily 12% of Ferrothorn's HP.

But generally speaking, yes, Leech Seed is a great option on it, especially on physical attackers who will be taking further damage from Steel Thorns.
 
Well, be definition, Ferrothorn doesn't have reliable recovery because it doesn't always work. You can't even seed other grass types, Magic Guard users, Magic Mirror users or Liquid Ooze users. It takes a few turns to equate to the 50% instant healing that Recover would, and it also requires two moveslots to accomplish, and this is all assuming your opponent doesn't switch out of being seeded. Plus, when Protect becomes predictable, free switches and stat up opportunities become apparent.

That said, it's obviously the best option Ferrothorn has, and it works for the most part. But no, it's not reliable.
 
Apart from Rest, it's as 'reliable' as Ferrothorn is going to get, sadly. But the small damage combined with Iron Thorns is pretty nifty, not to mention switch potential. I agreee with JT Swift's set.
 
problem with that set is only one. Giving free sub to some thing notably breelom.
Protect is a great move for all purpose but if your opponent predicted it, its a game making mistake in many cases
 
Protect problems apply to every Pokemon, not just Ferrothorn and yes, Leech Seed will give a free Substitute to a Grass-type, but nothing's perfect.
 
Yeah I run a set with Protect/Leech Seed/Spikes/Gyro Ball, and minimal HP EVs (I pumped them into the defenses), and man leech seed gives you a helluva lot of hp from nearly all other pokemon.
 
Nattorei @ Choice Band
0 Speed IV
Brave Nature
252 Attack / 252 HP / 6 Special Defense
- Gyro Ball (Main attack, does huge amount of damage with a 225 Base Power and a Choice Band)
- Power Whip (Secondary STAB and still does tons of damage)
- Level Field (Can hit Fire-Type Switch-ins like Heatran)
- Leech Seed / Spikes (Leech Seed heals you because this still has nice bulk and Spikes help you get nice KOs)

Power Whip against 252/252 Suicune
83.7% - 98.5% + 12.5% (SR) -> 96.2% - 100% (KO w/ Stealth Rock and SS or 1 Spikes)
Power Whip against Vaporeon
113.2% - 133.5%
Gyro Ball to Shandera (Modest, 252 Speed)
67.4% - 79.3% + 25% (SR) -> 92.4% -> 100% (KO w/ Stealth Rock and 1 Spikes)
 
Yeah I run a set with Protect/Leech Seed/Spikes/Gyro Ball, and minimal HP EVs (I pumped them into the defenses), and man leech seed gives you a helluva lot of hp from nearly all other pokemon.

If this works the way I believe it does it only appears you're gaining more health but it's only a higher percentage because you lowered your overall health. You still have less health overall and still sap the same amount from your enemy.
 
Natt/Ferrothron should run shadow claw on that choice band set. Still hits shandera, and it hits espeon and xatu (who seem to enjoy switching in for free reflect/hp fire). There's also reuniclus and any psychic type who might be carrying focus blast.
 
If this works the way I believe it does it only appears you're gaining more health but it's only a higher percentage because you lowered your overall health. You still have less health overall and still sap the same amount from your enemy.
But if you put those extra EVs into defenses, you'll have comparable bulk but less HP, meaning Leech Seed is more efficient.
 
I wasn't arguing for bulk, only the actual amount of HP being sapped. If you were running a Subseed set than less HP would indeed be more useful because it allows you to make more substitutes faster.
 
Natt/Ferrothron should run shadow claw on that choice band set. Still hits shandera, and it hits espeon and xatu (who seem to enjoy switching in for free reflect/hp fire). There's also reuniclus and any psychic type who might be carrying focus blast.

You're better off using Gyro Ball on Espeon and Xatu. If you run a -Spd Nature and 0 speed IVs and EVs, you get 142 Base Power against Xatu with no Speed EVs with Gyro Ball before STAB. That's slightly stronger than Super Effective Shadow Claw, and when you factor in STAB, Gyro Ball turns out to be a lot stronger.

Shadow Claw is indeed the best option against Shanderaa though.
 
What the fuck is a Ferrothorn?
Nattorei for life.

Eh, don't like how this guy gets hard countered by both Genosekuto, Shanderaa and Heatran and it doesn't help that they are common as fuck. You get especially screwed if they sub or RP on your switch (which you pretty much have to). Occa would be alright if Natt had a way of actually reliably OHKO'ing with little investment. Would Level Ground do much to Tran?
 
Eh, don't like how this guy gets hard countered by both Genosekuto, Shanderaa and Heatran and it doesn't help that they are common as fuck. You get especially screwed if they sub or RP on your switch (which you pretty much have to). Occa would be alright if Natt had a way of actually reliably OHKO'ing with little investment. Would Level Ground do much to Tran?

None of these Pokes likes to get hit by T-Wave though wich means they always have to take the risk of being T-waved on the switch in and level ground is a Waste on any set outside of CB and maybe Curse.
 
One of my Favorite 5th gen pokes.Along with Speed boost blaziken Shanderra and doryuzu and technician breloom.I'm getting right on March 6 when it comes out!
 
None of these Pokes likes to get hit by T-Wave though wich means they always have to take the risk of being T-waved on the switch in and level ground is a Waste on any set outside of CB and maybe Curse.

Level Ground stops SubCharge Beam Magnezone from boosting up to +4 or more and KOing Nattorei, though; it's not entirely useless.
 
Level Ground stops SubCharge Beam Magnezone from boosting up to +4 or more and KOing Nattorei, though; it's not entirely useless.

Leech Seed and T-Wave can do the same if you predict right (wich shouldn't be too hard thanks to team pre-view) and Shed shell isn't that bad if you run Leech Seed since it also helps against Wobbuffets (they are rare, but if your Team relies on Nattorei a lot it can be worth it).

Level Ground is of course more reliable, but i would much rather play around magnezone then wasting a move slot especially if there are so many overall more useful moves like Gyro Ball, T-Wave, Leech Seed, Protect, Power Whip, Spikes and SR.
 
My favourite Nattorei set:

Nattorei @ Leftovers/Rugged Helmet
0 Speed IV
Brave/Relaxed 252 Def 252 Atk 4 HP
Curse
Gyro Ball
Leech Seed
Spikes/Toxic/Power Whip

This set takes advantage of Nattorei's abhorrent speed in combination with its applicable ability. Not only does its speed and attack create a unique late-game sweeper, but a defensive physical wall with a special flavor. Curse + Gyro Ball allows Nattorei to maximize its properties primarily by raising its attack and dropping its speed. Meanwhile, the defensive boost combined with an already solid defense stat will cause hell for all physical attackers, especially when contact moves are involved. Spikes and Toxic offer additional support in chipping down both incumbent and incoming opponents, while Power Whip takes advantage of a powerful STAB move. Leech Seed in combination with either Leftovers or Rugged Helmet will tear down the opponent as well while healing Nattorei's considerable demeanor. It also allows Nattorei a first-turn move incase a switch-in forces it out. Thunder Wave will barely cripple it, especially with the motivation to drop speed and with the support of Leech Seed. Toxic and Leech Seed are no problems either, and even if Taunted, most of the time Nattorei can wreck with even an un-setup Gyro Ball or Power Whip.

Mach Punchers for the most part, despite their 2x offensive power, will still have issues with this Nattorei. The classic "Hax" Jirachi will faces issues as well, as even if it causes consecutive flinching, Nattorei is more or less likely to survive if not hit it back. Fake Out-ers will cringe when they hit Iron Thorns. The combination of all these allow Nattorei to effectively switch in to any predicted Physical Contact moves and wall, stall or sap away at the opponent.

Disadvantages: Firstly, in my experience, Nattorei has never taken well to special Fire attacks, especially in lieu of the (unreleased) Shadow Trap Shandeera. Thus, I personally do not invest in it and instead maximize the focus of this set. Otherwise, one could invest the EVs into Special Defense or opt for an Occa Berry (in the future, Shed Shell). Nattorei still has the stats to be an effective Special wall, barring any fire or fighting attacks running around. Other bulky and slow Pokemon prove problematic to Natty as well, especially if they tote around special attacks. Porygon-2 especially with Evo Stone will use special attacks to damage Nattorei considerably. Taunt and Trick Scarf have the potential to completely thwart this set. Thus, Nattorei has quite a series of potential throwbacks, so one should take care to eliminate these by the time they plan to use him for offense.

Addendum: Shed Shell for Magnezone, Gavuntula, other trappers et al.

Some moves I'm not fond of:

T-wave
This defeats the nature of this set, allowing less opportunity for the opponents to be hurt by their own contact moves, and slows them down which lessens the power of Gyro Ball.

Protect
Nearly the same reasons as above, although more useful if Leech Seed is already set up.

Power Whip
Although powerful, it lacks accuracy and Gyro Ball is by far a better offensive option. Regardless, it still has many opportunities to be extremely useful, especially with bulky waters.

Stealth Rock
Because Nattorei can sit around for so long in the correct circumstances, Spikes is more opportune.

How NOT to use Nattorei, in my experience:

He absolutely hates Special Fire attacks, and I have yet to see him survive. Even if one maxes Special Defense, special sweepers with access to any sort of fire move will most likely OHKO Nattorei regardless.
His late-game nature, predictability and dislike of Taunt/Trick means he does not work as a lead.


ADDITIONAL NOTES: I owe credit to this set entirely to Hex. I freakin' love it, makes me enjoy Nattorei more, and he's amazing for seeing all these which I am basically just reiterating.
 
Everything in that post was terrible.

Nattorei can't sit around-the switchin will be a heatran or similar and torch it easily. It can afford to get off one stealth rock and thereafter leech seed the switchin, but spiking thrice puts it a little too low on hp.

A curse plus thorns and rugged helmet isn't all that great, since cursers really need the leftovers hp, since it has to curse on the switch. And if you're running a boosting set, why run support moves? The only way you can get off curses and support moves is if anything with a powerful fire move is dead;in which case you should really be sweeping.

Also;Posts like this, a stream of consciousness, only work if there isn't a 12-page-long-thread.
 
I think Protect is awesome on Nattorei. It can scout for stuff like HP Fire on the less-obvious mons, build up leftovers and leech seed recovery, and can really fuck up HJK mons. I also like using Toxic on my Nattorei, so that works well with Protect as well.
 
This thing, I'm sad to say, is just set-up fodder for Excavalier, an underdog pokemon. Since most Ferrothorn run lower speed IVs, it's outsped by Excavalier, who sets up a sub and not gonna take any damage. If the Ferrothorn switches out, their pokemon switch-in eats a Hard attack. If they're stupid enough to stay in...gf other team.
 
Being set up fodder for something so rare is hardly a discouragement when you wall more relevant threats in the form of LO Starmie and SpecsLatios.

Non-CBEscavalier is a joke anyway.
 
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers/ Chople/Occa Berry
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
Brave (0 Spe) / Iron Barbs

Gyro Ball
Power Whip
Leech Seed
Protect/Explosion

This is the best set ever. Yes, Explosion got nerfed, but most things that are going to hit him with a fighting-type attack won't 1hko through Chople, and most things that would hit with a fire-type attack would KO through Occa anyway. Either way, it lets him lure in a SE attack and explode on the attacker if it can't be dealt with via Leech Seed stalling or by his other attacks.

also jesus christ don't bother dredging up an old point about jap vs. eng names. We don't care.
 
Back
Top