SM Ubers First attempt at an Ubers team; would appreciate some advice




Introduction

Hey! As the title says, this is my first go at Ubers. I mostly mess around in Monotype and I'm definitely very inexperienced in competitive battling, but I like to think I'm muddling along alright. I pretty much made this team because I realised Xerneas was banned in Mono, and I wanted to try a Geo set; that's sort of what I built this team around. I've been playing with it over the last few days and it's quite fun, but there are definitely some areas for improvement where I'd appreciate a more experienced eye looking over things :D

I've basically just used the premade sets from the Smogon strategy dex (with a few tweaks here and there), and used the strategy guides and team options to try to pick teammates and roles that complement each other. Some areas I'd especially appreciate advice would be in checking Ho-oh, Groudon, and Kyogre (though the latter I can usually manage with Ferrothorn), as well as any advice/changes i could make to more efficiently manage my team's health in terms of working around status effects, chipped/lower HP (mainly for Giratina-O, Groudon, and Xerneas), and handling especially fast opposing threats (as my team has a bit of bulk, but is kind of lacking in the Spe department).

The Team


Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 168 Def / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Focus Blast

Xerneas is the Pokemon I chose to base the team around, as the concept of Power Herb-ed Geomancy really appealed to me. So far it's worked well for me as both a powerful setup sweeper and a good check for most Dragon & Dark types. Even without Geo, it still hits pretty hard, and Moonblast has great neutral coverage, with Thunder and Focus Blast for coverage. However, I find the lack of accuracy in Thunder and FB can really cost me at some important moments, forcing me to switch out of my boosted stats or lose Xerneas entirely. I've also found that statuses can really hinder its efficacy, and after a bit of chip damage from burn, tox/poison, or hazards, it feels a little frail. That being said, it's pretty fun to use, and has a good bit of versatility.


Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Taunt
- Sucker Punch

Yveltal puts in good work as a hard-hitting answer to Ghost and Psychic types, as well as helping me deal with support mons and status users. I frequently use Yveltal as my lead, since I value Taunt to stop hazard setters. Its speed helps a lot as an anti-lead(? I think that's the terminology), though even so it does get outsped a fair bit, forcing me to switch in Giratina-O to Defog and having it take chip damage/opening it up to status as the Taunt wears off. I opted for Sucker Punch over U-Turn as I really value the priority move against faster offensive threats, and the boosts from both Life Orb and Dark Aura mean it hits hard. It also works well with Taunt, since Taunt often forces the opponent to attack if they don't switch out immediately. I considered swapping SP to Pursuit for more power, but like I said, I value the priority. I find that I mostly use Oblivion Wing for sustain more than for dealing damage, but it's pretty valuable just for that. I prefer to only keep Yveltal in for a few turns, since it can rack up damage quite easily.


Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Roar
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Toxic

Groudon acts well as a check to Steel and Poison types that can threaten Xerneas, and I opted for a more defensive, bulky build and set recommended by the strategy dex so it can take a good few hits for other mons on my team, while dealing good mixed damage with either Precipice Blades or Overheat. I value the combination of its bulk and Roar which enables it to switch in, weather a few hits from a boosted opponent, and force them out. Currently, it's my main check for opposing Fire types, which includes enemy Groudons. Depending on the opposing Groudon's set, it can tear through mine in a few turns with Ground-type moves. I'm not sure what the best strategy around this is - whether I should change some EVs, or add a Water coverage move to it or another mon on my team?


Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Sunsteel Strike
- Morning Sun

Necrozma-DM has been working well for me as a special wall and a sort-of Toxic staller. I find that I don't bring it in to set up Stealth Rock as often as I probably should, since its weakness to Fire can be a bit of a pain, but even having it set up later in games once its threats have been dealt with can be really helpful with cleaning up. I'm not amazed with Sunsteel Strike's damage, but I find it handy for bypassing Mimikyu's Disguise, since it's a good Fairy check. The combination of Morning Sun and Leftovers recovery mean I can kind of stall out ongoing damage on some Toxic'ed opponents, and it works well with Ferrothorn's Leech Seed for even more ongoing damage + recovery.


Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Defog
- Hex
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave

Giratina-O is my Defogger, primarily, and I appreciate having a Levitate Defog user that's not Flying type, so it takes less damage from rocks and no damage from Spikes or T-Spikes - which is good, because I've found this thing is susceptible to being worn down or statused, given its lack of recovery and my team's lack of a Heal Bell/Aromatherapy user. Thunder Wave is invaluable for my team both to slow down fast threats and give my mons an occasional free turn, and combined with Griseous-boosted Hex, Giratina can deal a chunk of damage to statused opponents - provided they don't switch out after being statused, that is. Dragon Pulse hits a good number of things, and again, the boost from the Orb means it hits hard. I find that my team can struggle with Dark types occasionally, which can put Giratina on the back foot a little, but I think that's more due to my inexperience than it is to a fault in my team. While it resists Fire, it can't deal with Groudon super well as its SpD is fairly average and I can't usually use Hex due to Groudon's T-Wave immunity.


Chonk (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Protect
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball

This Ferrothorn has been described by my friend as "degenerate" and "disgusting", and I adore it. I really value its ability to stall and wear down opponents through a combination of Protect, Leech Seed, Leftovers recovery, and bulk. I can switch it in on most opposing mons it takes neutral damage from, and (especially if they're already affected with paralysis or toxic), throw out Leech Seed, spam Protect every other turn, and set up Spikes or use Gyro Ball for an extra bit of chip damage as I go, or a straight-up KO on some especially fast Fairy types. Its weakness to Fire can be a pain sometimes, especially since Groudon is really my best Fire check and that can struggle with an opposing Fire-user's coverage moves. However, given that Ferrothorn can handle Kyogre with relative ease and whittle away enemy teams' HP like a champ, it's probably the mon I'm most satisfied with on this team.

Conclusion

I think I tend towards a more defensive/stalling approach over full offense, which I like my bulky/defensive mons for, but that can leave me weak to setup sweepers since my only real way of dealing with that is forcing them out with Roar Groudon. It can also make me easy to set up hazards on, which negatively impacts my ability to switch around to deal with threats. My need to switch between threats also means that setting up my Geo Xerneas can be a problem, to the point that I'm considering changing it to Specs and abandoning my original Geo concept altogether, which would be a shame. I'm unsure if it would benefit me more to try to change my strategy/team around to be more offensive, or if I should lean into a slower/stall team. Either way, I imagine it will require a bit of research on my part :D

I've outlined my main concerns in the introduction (sustain, status, and faster opponents) but anything else you think could be useful - any glaringly obvious flaws, or any holes I could fill by tweaking a few stats or moves, or even a change in how I use a mon while battling - I'd really appreciate hearing it!

This is also my first time posting on any of the Smogon forums, so I apologise for any errors in formatting or ettiquette I may have made! I used the standard vers. 1 format from this thread, and got the sprite gifs from here.

Edit: I forgot to add these replays of me using the team.
one of my first attempts | from today
 
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737373elj

Banned deucer.
Your team looks fine to me! If you have trouble checking Ho-Oh, you can try running Stone Edge on either Groudon or Necrozma. If you have trouble with Groudon, Giratina is usually a good counter (which you have on your team) but you can run Arceus-Ground to be safe, though I don’t know over what Pokemon. Kyogre should be solved with your own Groudon; Switch it in directly after Kyogre is sent in and it should be dead. As for status... there is no offensive solution to that, apart from maybe cleric Xerneas.
 
I've thought about Arceus-G, but like you said, I don't know who I'd switch out for it. I'll definitely try Stone Edge! And yeah, with status, I think it might come down to my inexperience - I'm sure as I play more, I'll get better at predicting statuses and mitugating it through taunts/Steel switchins/etc.

Thank you for the advice!! :D

Edit - I'm switching my Groudon's Toxic for a rock move, since NecDM has Toxic too; do you think Rock Tomb could be viable over SE? It doesn't hit nearly as hard, but I feel like my team could appreciate the ability to slow down an enemy.
 
Given your team's admitted susceptibility to status, something I'd recommend would be to drop either Focus Blast or Thunder from Xerneas and run Aromatherapy instead. Your team's focus on whittling things down with Toxic and Leech Seed means that the lack of coverage shouldn't be an issue in the long run. (Aromatherapy GeoXern is an underrated set in general, given how many teams rely on Thunder Wave to check a rampaging deer.)
 
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737373elj

Banned deucer.
I'm switching my Groudon's Toxic for a rock move, since NecDM has Toxic too; do you think Rock Tomb could be viable over SE? It doesn't hit nearly as hard, but I feel like my team could appreciate the ability to slow down an enemy.
Doesn’t do as much but lowers Speed. I always run Rock Tomb, but it’s up to you. Maybe you’ll like the extra power Stone edge will give you. Beware the misses!
 
Hey There cool Team

1) Your Team has Great pokemons in it and the sets were standard some time ago.
2) Your defensive balanced based Gamestyle can win you many games against offense
3) There is room for improvement :-)

My first impression is,

1) That a defensive Groudon needs Stealth Rocks as a move.
2) That an Arceus forme is mandatory to reach 1800+ (Ground/Dark/Water are strong options)
3) Yveltal Life Orb with sucker is not really strong defensively (despite forcing ultra out) ->
There are many strong options to change into like Leftovers/Specs/Metronome with a little HP/SPD investment and even scarf for u-turn pivot
4) The Necrozma and Ferrothorn set are pretty similar in their roles in checking xern or non cm judgement arceus formes;
With Ferro on your team you could consider using ultra necrozma since you have an emergency check for xern.
5) Xerneas would really want a strong option for doubling when predicting your opponent to go necrozma
(Here Arceus Dark / Arceus Ground / Arceus Water with cm/sd would shine since you get a free setup turn) ;
6) Arceus Ground CM has few switch in options: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ubers-975789418

This is the variant i see with the fewest changes:

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 168 Def / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Focus Blast

Yveltal @ Choice Specs --->
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Heat Wave
- Sucker Punch

3/5 Doubling for Xern ; Recover with Oblivion ; Switching into Yveltal/Marshadow (Loves Defog from Giratina);
And even better use a defensive variant with metronome + foul play & oblivion with arceus water

Groudon @ Red Orb ---> 1
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Roar (for Xern with hp Fire)

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Leftovers --------> ArceusWater CM or SD with Z would shine solving (2/4/5/6) and the ho-oh issue
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Sunsteel Strike
- Morning Sun

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Defog
- Hex
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave

Chonk (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Protect
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
 
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YashGreninja

Naruto's Twin
Hey Corvile ! I just want to say that considering you are new to Ubers, it's really cool to see that you've already learned a little of how the metagame works, and what sets are right to use for certain Pokemon. It's really hard for people to get into something so quickly, but you've learned quick. With that being said, here's what my personal suggestions are for your team:

MAJOR CHANGES

:ferrothorn: -> :arceus:

I feel this change is necessary if you want to really run a mixed / balanced team of offense and defense. Ferrothorn lacks a lot in Ubers because of how frequent Primal-Groudon comes up, which just ruins the mojo of the team. It also has less usage in a tier like Ubers where there's just so much more possibility. Instead, I would run with Arceus. Arceus is a very frequent Pokemon in Ubers, mainly because of its Multitype ability giving it so much viability. If you were to run over Arceus-Normal, here's what I would personally use.

Arceus @ Chople Berry
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: No
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Recover


With this set, you can use Arceus as a secondary sweeper in case your plan of using Xerneas fails. Its setup on Swords Dance allows you to easily sweep with Extreme Speed against most Pokemon in Ubers. You also have Shadow Claw incase you run into a Marshadow or a Tapu Lele. The Chople Berry is to also take a hit from the Marshadow because at max speed, it will outspeed you and use a Fighting type move. Recover is to stall out weaker Pokemon, allowing you to eventually set up more Swords Dance's and sweep the game for sure.

:necrozma-dusk-mane: SET REVAMP

In your current team situation, Toxic stall is not needed at all, especially with the use of Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. There are so many better opportunities / sets used with this Pokemon, so I'll suggest a complete revamp.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike


This set utilizes a full offensive addition to your team. I find the amount of defensiveness on your current team a little excessive, because in this format, offense is arguably more important. This set of Necrozma-Dusk-Mane utilizes Ultra Necrozma with Ultranecrozium Z so that you can take care of a decently threatening Pokemon to your team, like Primal Kyogre. Outrage is for the coverage against things like Zygarde, Naganadel, other Ultra Necrozma's, etc. Earthquake is for your other fellow Primal-Groudons who may be getting in the way. Photon Geyser is required for the Z-Move + is very strong. Sunsteel Strike is very useful against Xerneas who have set up, since you can use Sunsteel Strike on a Geomancy-boosted Xerneas (ONLY DO THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T ULTRA BURSTED YET). Overall, it's a heavy hitter, and will do better in the long run as you progress in the tier.



MINOR CHANGES

:xerneas: Thunder -> Aromatherapy

You yourself already mentioned in your original first post how much of a problem it is that Thunder's accuracy hinders its effectiveness. By switching Thunder to Aromatherapy, you can pair with your Arceus as two main sweep options by curing any possible status effects (Toxic, Thunder Wave) that your opponent will put on it. I've found Aromatherapy Xerneas to be extremely reliable for the synergy and success of past teams, and I think it'll do good for you too. Quick tip: if you are against a Yveltal and need to switch into something, I wouldn't suggest Xerneas unless the full set / set idea has been scouted. It could Knock the Power Herb off, rendering the main idea of Xerneas to be on your team to be pretty much useless. However, it isn't too common, so don't hesitate to do it.

:groudon-primal: Overheat -> Lava Plume

It may seem a little unorthodox, but I'll explain why. First of all, Overheat packs a punch, but is rendered useless against most counters like Kyogres and Ho-Ohs, plus it is only 90% accurate, so you run the risk of missing which could turn games around against your favor. Lava Plume, although is weaker in terms of damage, is still extremely strong under Desolate Land, is 100% accurate, and has a 30% chance to burn your target. This makes it super useful, because you could widdle down and lower the attacks of many physical attackers like Zygarde, Necrozma, and Marshadow. For the most part though, your set is amazing. The Roar is necessary to roar out Zygarde's that set up Dragon Dances, Arceus' that set up either Swords Dances or Calm Minds, and Xerneas' who use Power Herb Geomancy based sets.

:groudon-primal: Toxic -> Stealth Rock

I believe with all my heart that Stealth Rock is a necessity for mixed Primal-Groudon sets like these. It allows you to lead with Primal-Groudon, and then make the necessary move depending on what your opponent leads with. Early on rocks result in more damage being chipped off from the opponent's team, which helps a lot in the long run. It also hurts your opponent's team a lot if they have no way of removing the hazards from their side of the field. Toxic is less reliable because of the abundance of Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in the metagame, which basically prevents anything from being poisoned.

SUMMARY: This is a really good starting team considering the fact that you're new to the format. However, I made a few tweaks here and there to maximize the power and defense (balance) of your team, so that it better fits your playstyle. I didn't comment on the Yveltal nor Giratina because I believe both are useful on the synergy of this team, and can be useful when in battle. I hope you enjoyed reading this! This is my first official and detailed RMT so I hope you understood most things and use these tips to your advantage.

- Yash
 
Hey, for a first Ubers team I think this looks really really good. I actually created a team that was very similar to yours recently that I submitted to the samples: https://pokepast.es/d1caf6772276fd59 For each of the differences between my team and yours, I'll explain why mine is different.

:xerneas: Xerneas vs. :arceus-fairy: Arceus-Fairy: For my team, it was important to have reliable counterplay to threats like Marshadow, Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde, and Yveltal. Marshadow in particular outspeeds a lot of the team and can hit 3 members super effectively. If you only have Xerneas to deal with these threats, and if they are paired with a solid Xerneas answer such as Dusk Mane, then after you burn the Geomancy and they knock you out (or, in the case of Salamence, they just knock Xerneas out at +1) they can go to town on the rest of your team. On the other hand, Arceus-Fairy has reliable recovery and better bulk so it can repeatedly switch into these threats.

:groudon-primal: Defensive vs. Offensive Groudon: Typically, you run a defensive Groudon set when your team is very weak to either Xerneas or Kyogre (Roar in particular is only seen on teams that are extremely Xerneas-weak). Having support Dusk Mane + Ferrothorn on your team already gives you plenty of insurance against those threats, so you don't need a defensive Groudon. My team has 4 attacks Groudon with Eruption to put a lot of pressure on support Arceus such as Arceus-Ground. Having Stone Edge also helps out for Ho-Oh, which can be problematic for a lot of Ferrothorn builds.

:necrozma-dusk-mane: Support Dusk Mane vs. :necrozma-ultra: Ultra Necrozma: This gives you another breaker and another thing that can lure in + kill Ho-Oh (and Arceus-Ground which I touch on below) for the rest of the team to take advantage of.

:ferrothorn: Protect vs. Toxic on Ferrothorn: This helps to pressure support Arceus and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground. Calm Mind Arceus-Ground is a big threat to your current version of the team, because it can set up on Yveltal, Giratina, and no-Grass-move Ferrothorn and it forces out Dusk Mane and Groudon.

:giratina-origin: Dragon Pulse vs. Draco Meteor on Giratina: This might just be a matter of personal preference, but I opted for Draco Meteor due to its superior damage output. Arceus-Fairy can already deal with Substitute Zygarde, and putting Will-O-Wisp on it / having Ultra Necrozma gives the rest of the team some breathing room vs Substitute Ekiller.

I'm not saying that you should necessarily make these changes, just giving you some insight into how our teams differ. If you want to keep the team centered around Geomancy Xerneas, then I'd recommend slotting in a support Arceus in place of some other member, such as maybe Arceus-Dark > Yveltal or Arceus-Water > Giratina. I'd recommend keeping Ferrothorn though just because Spikes support is really helpful for Xerneas.

Overall, well done, this is really impressive for a first team. Welcome and good luck playing Ubers.
 
I usually wouldn't reply to teams that have already received a multitude of rates, however most dont solve the majority of underlying issues of the team. bigtalk already gave a good rate and one direction that this team could be taken in, but I understand it removes your initial focus of wanting to use Geomancy Xerneas. The reasoning there has been a lot of rates is due to how flexible the initial team is to changing Pokemon / sets to make improvements but some except bigtalk don't really give you a good explanation / reasoning as to why.

Due to the nature of the team and there are multiple ways one could perceive in trying to improve this team hence the varied number of rates.

I'll start by covering the general groundwork of team and the current issues such as weaknesses it faces in the current state. I understand people have brought up Ho-Oh as a threat and this is completely true, in terms of Pokemon alone, Ho-Oh is a issue you lack any kind of Ho-Oh switch-in especially banded Ho-Oh,but defensive Ho-Oh with Leftovers is also rather difficult to break, and nigh impossible without good hazards pressure.

Dragon Dance Zygarde sets such as Substitute + Dragon Dance or Z-move + Dragon Dance also pose a threat to the team, but not to the degree like Ho-Oh, but becoming increasingly glaring in the lategame.

Mega Gengar also poses a threat depending on the coverage, All-out-Attacking with Hidden Power Fire or Hex sets that are integrated on teams that feature status spam, especially since you lack a Aromatherapy user, your go-to check is Primal Groudon until it is inflicted with a form of status.

Pokemon aside, the most underlying issue that hasn't been pointed out is the matchup against fatter archetypes such as stall, depending on the stall build, this is basically an autoloss from preview, you have no methods of dealing with stall teams such as any good breaker like Calm Mind Lunala or Primal Kyogre. Pressuring up hazards in USM simply won't cut it sadly due to the myriad of strong anti-hazard options there are out there and the lack of cleric support on your team, makes the matchup a uphill battle. One example of a team from the archetype Im thinking of would be something like the Zekrom + Mega Sableye stall found in this replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-991949245

Anyways, moving onto the team, It seems to be centered around Geomancy Xerneas as a winning condition, so I'll insist in keeping it in my suggestions. The initial structure of the team looks fine, Yveltal + Giratina-O have a good degree of synergy with Xerneas like any Fairy + Ghost + Dark type core and in my opinion that core is a good groundwork to keep for any Geomancy Xerneas team. The addition of Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn also are good at a face value, giving you good resilience against numerous support pokemon such as Support Arceus-Formes Like Arceus-Water or Arceus-Fairy and most importantly defensive options to deal with Calm Mind Primal Kyogre.

The main issues with the team however, is the obvious lack of an Arceus forme which almost any viable forme would bring a good deal of benefits to your team. I also feel, looking at your team, that the inclusion of Specially defensive Necrozma Dusk Mane is rather redundant, especially with the decision to use a Specially defensive Primal Groudon and a Ferrothorn, it offers little to the team, Primal Groudon is a much more proficient Stealth Rock user and more consistent in beating the defog users, Ferrothorn is perfectly capable of covering and wearing down support Arceus formes which is one of the roles Specially Defensive Necrozma Dusk Mane offers and usually to free Primal Groudon to utilise more offensive sets. Due to how the team is built, Necrozma Dusk Mane is easily disposable compared to the other team members and the one I'd strongly recommend removing if looking to explore changing and taking out current members of the team.

As I've mentioned, there are multiple ways you could approach improving this team, but the most obvious one would be the inclusion of an Arceus forme, the type of Arceus could also help interpret the direction you take this team, be it more offensively or retain the defensive orientation that you're more keen to be invest in, going off the preface of your initial post. The best course of action to improve the team would be to change Necrozma Dusk Mane to an Arceus forme.




Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic

Arceus-Water would fit this team the best as a defensive option, it solves your intial Ho-Oh and Dragon Dance Zygarde-C issues due to the virtue of its bulk and typing, the pairing of Giratina-O + Arceus-Water also allows you to cover every possible Primal Groudon set and also providing more reliable defensive options versus Pokemon that could be troublesome defensively such as Life Orb Marshadow, Mega Salamence, and an additional offensive Necrozma Dusk Mane check. Obviously, this alone wouldn't and doesn't solve the stall matchup concerns as we've lost our dedicated Stealth Rock user by dropping Necrozma Dusk Mane.

Changing the Primal Groudon set is the best solution for this, a offensive Swords Dance + Stealth Rock set fits the role perfectly,


Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 144 HP / 156 Atk / 56 SpD / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch/ Rock Tomb

This Primal Groudon set is probably the best option this team could take in terms of a breaker, since Primal Kyogre or Lunala etc would be very hard to fit without making too many changes revamping the whole team and multiple team options such as changing / taking out team members. This set has enough power to get through the generic defoggers / defensive threats to the team, This set actually really benefits from Thunder-Wave Giratina-O, as that would allow Primal Groudon to have an easier time dealing with faster threats. Along with the Ferrothorn, hazards pressure and taunt on Yveltal, the Xerneas matchup is still adequate and easily playable even though it looks worse than previously on paper.

Fire punch can be considered a good deal here, I feel it brings more to the team in terms of coverage, though you lose out on 1v1ing Ho-Oh and Mega Salamence, however this can be supplemented by Arceus-Water. Fire Punch deals with niche steels such as Celesteela / Skamory, giving you a more reliable move to click vs Magearna, Arceus-Fairy, Xerneas etc. So it is definitely worth considering.

Aside from these changes, a simple change of including of Aromatherapy on Xerneas is something others have pointed out and something I really do agree with. Focus Blast is the coverage move worth considering dropping as it is the least important,especially if Fire Punch Primal Groudon is opted for. Thunder is important for Xerneas to OHKO targets Toxapex, Primal Kyogre and deal with Ho-Oh both checks that would invalidate it as a winning condition.

Provided the inclusion of Swords Dance Primal Groudon, a cleric user and Taunt Yveltal, this turns the stall matchup into a matchup which is now winnable instead of a usually impossible matchup and I believe all these changes satisfy of fixing the teams most glaring issues. Other small things include Draco Meteor on Giratina-O to give Giratina-O more of a offensive presence and Toxic over Protect on Ferrothorn to increase the potency of the Hex move slot on Giratina-O and help wear down bulkier foes are worth experimenting with, but not completely necessary.

Team with suggested changes: https://pokepast.es/f40a009b2d572544


Summary of changes:

  • Change Necrozma Dusk Mane to Support Arceus-Water
  • Optimise Primal Groudon to Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
  • Include a cleric by dropping Focus Blast for Aromatherapy on Xerneas
  • Consider Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse on Giratina-O
  • Consider Toxic over Protect on Ferrothorn
Hope these suggestions / changes help, Like I mentioned, Bigtalks rate solves a few of the issues the initial team faces in a different way and is an alternative suggestion worth looking at, but doesnt satisfy the condition of keeping Xerneas.
 

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