First Ever VGC Team | Need Help

Status
Not open for further replies.
Howdy-do Smogon! Finally stepping outside of the safety and comfort of the wifi subforum, and looking to maybe get into doing VGC this year. However, I've never done anything other than OU and UU teams, and thus have no idea what I should do as far as building a team goes.

The only things I have set in stone are that I want to use my shiny Timid Ninetales-A to toss out Aurora Veil immediately, allowing me to possibly run some other, squishy but nasty monsters like Pheromosa without worrying overly much about them dying on the switch-in.

I have also previously abused status and/or entry hazards on teams, particularly Stealth Rock setters and Toxic. I plan to make use of a Toxapex and just got my hands on an HA one to begin the Masuda breeding. But aside from Ninetales-A and/or Toxapex, I have no idea what else I actually want to make use of. So are there any kind persons out there's able to offer suggestions for a VGC newcomer? Thanks in advance!
 
Hi, first off welcome to the wonderful world of VGC. It's very different to singles in many different ways. The main ways I find it different are as follows (this mostly also applies to other doubles formats too, like DOU):
  • Protect is a staple. It allows you to improve your board position, abuse obvious double targets, stall turns of tailwind/trick room/weather/terrains/fake out etc.
  • Intimidate is incredible, should probably try to include in almost every team.
  • Spread moves are a thing.
  • Games are much faster, for a fairly obvious reason when you consider 4 Pokemon move per turn as opposed to 2, and only 4 Pokemon are brought by each player.
  • Because of the above, particularly defensive/stally playstyles as well as setup are heavily deterred.
  • A whole host of moves which are useless in singles are viable and strong in doubles, for example redirection moves like Follow Me and Rage Powder, Fake Out (occasionally used in singles, but much more in doubles), Wide Guard (Protects your team from spread moves for the turn), Quick Guard (Protects your team from priority for the turn), Feint (Breaks the target's Protect for the turn), Trick Room (again occasionally used in singles but much more common and viable in doubles), other speed control options like Icy Wind, Tailwind, Thunder Wave etc.
  • EVs tend to be a lot more specific than the common 252, 252 spreads you will see in singles and tend to be tailor made for specific teams, mostly because of how fast paced the metagame is, so living certain attacks is crucial to a win condition. The metagame also often revolves around 10 or so Pokemon that you are very likely to see (in the current format, examples would be the Tapus (except Fini), Oranguru, Celesteela and Alolan Marowak, but there are plenty more), so living certain hits from these and ensuring you KO these with particular attacks is important. That being said, 252,252 spreads often are just the most efficient spreads, especially on focus sash users for example where bulk isn't the number 1 priority.
That's all I can think of right now, but I'm certain there are other things that I'm forgetting and you will learn when you start playing.
As for what you mention, Ninetails right now is an interestinng niche pick. Aurora veil is definitely a great move, though I'm not sure pairing it with Pheromosa is the best idea. Pheromosa is incredibly squishy, screens or no screens, meaning it really relies heavily on its focus sash. Considering hail will break your focus sash, I just don't think Pheromosa and Ninetails are a great pair. Regarding entry hazards and Toxic, hazards are straight up non-viable in VGC and Toxic is generally considered a poor option. This is again due to the short nature of battles and the fact that 'walls' don't really exist. Matches don't last long enough for the benefit that you gain from setting up hazards and getting chip damage on switches outweighing the opportunity cost of clicking the move and not having a better move in its place in the moveset.

As for Toxapex, it's an interesting choice but it's very passive. Other than wide guard, it doesn't seem to provide that much support. It kind of just seems to sit there. Sure Scald burns are annoying (wish it got a nerf), but you can usually play around them and other than that you can kind of just ignore it and double target its partner.

Now, you talk about breeding your team and then practising with it. You really don't want to do that. It's very unlikely that the first team that you ever decide to make will be perfect, or even good. Especially considering you don't have any prior knowledge of VGC fundamentals or the current metagame (I briefly covered that I guess but that's definitely not enough information to make a strong team). You really should familiarise yourself with the format first (either through playing around on showdown, watching youtubers who know what they're doing, or both), make a team, test it on showdown, make any alterations and test again (repeat those last steps until you are comfortable with it) and then breed it and play with it ingame. Even if you have a general idea of what your team composition is going to be, there's nothing more infuriating than making a spread that requires a certain nature for it to be optimised and that isn't the nature of the Pokemon that you have bred ingame.

Now, this is the third time I've suggested these youtubers to people new to VGC, so forgive me for just copying and pasting what I have said previously :P

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9OZkS1Mhl5UvKSiPrYqsxg
https://www.youtube.com/user/CybertronProductions
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheKylecol3

Wolfey has been putting out great analyses for the new Pokemon, including sets with calcs explaining what the EVs are there to do (should help with creating spreads on your own) and potential partners.
Cybertron posts great daily battlespot lives with his full thought processes. He also recently created a great teambuilding guide for beginners I would highly recommend checking out.
And finally Kyle Cole posts some cool showdown lives as well as Pokemon analyses and recently made a 'Good VGC Cores' video which is a great starting place for teambuilding.

Sorry I haven't suggested a team for you to use. If you want to try out a team using ninetails, you can probably just take one of the teams that Kyle Cole uses and test that out on Showdown and maybe make some alterations if you feel comfortable doing that.
 
This was definitely the single most useful response I could have possibly received. Thanks so much for the advice!

Obviously I'm new to VGC and it shows, but I do intend to abuse the crap out of Aurora Veil; the ability to drop dual screens and weather on turn one is just too much of an advantage to ignore, especially since Hail is so likely to break Focus Sashes and throw off the careful calculations behind EVs to survive certain hits just barely.

I'll definitely check out those team ideas; I like the idea of using a Hail team, but I'm just going to have to be careful about having it hurt my own 'mons just as much as theirs.

Oranguru is definitely on my list of 'mons to have. A 100% accuracy Blizzard from my Ninetales-A is nothing to sniff at, or Freeze-Dry going out. Only problem is I run against FMSS with Ninetales. Observe:


-Aurora Veil (obvs need)
-Freeze Dry (bye Pelliper, must stay)
-Moonblast (fight dark drag gone, strong neutral STAB on many others)
-Blizzard/Protect (oh boy... hard choice)

Still gonna have to work on it. Weavile is possibly an option, but then I set myself up to get demolished by single Adamant Celesteela going HAM, especially if I'm trying to do a hail abuse and Slush Screens core.
 
Hmm, I wouldn't say Freeze Dry or Moonblast are all that necessary. I feel like the primary target of Freeze Dry would be Gyarados rather than Pelipper, just because of their relative usages. Pelliper doesn't appreciate havinng its weather challenged too much and you will generally run an electric move somewhere on your team for things like Celesteela so I don't consider Freeze Dry too important, though that's more on a team by team basis. Moonblast would be nice to fit in, but really it doesn't hit anything that Blizzard doesn't already. Dragons are weak to Ice, and Darks aren't too popular in this format, with things like Krook, Weavile and Muk being the main ones, with the first two not appreciating Blizzard at all and the latter not being able to touch you back and having its sash broken by hail/Blizzard chip damage. In terms of coverage, the only thing that Moonblast hits that Blizzard doesn't is waters (which Freeze dry could help with I guess, but aren't too prevalent in the format in the first place bar Gyarados and a few niche picks) and Ice, which is such a poor defensive type you shouldn't have any issues with. I would say you definitely have enough space to slot Protect in there, and then for me it's a toss up between Freeze Dry and Icy Wind. Icy wind is a really nice speed control option which isn't too common on viable Pokemon this format (really sad that Gengar no longer gets it :/)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top