First RMT: Eeveelution Baton Pass

jynx KB

I skipped over the DPP generation, but with a newly purchased SoulSilver, I thought I'd better learn the ropes fast.

I've always been a fan of the Eevee family, and one thing they all have in common is Baton Pass. Therefore, I thought, why choose a recipient? Wouldn't it be better to simply have the stat boosts stack while the Baton keeps getting passed? It's a theory I'm hoping to try out, and hopefully viable with enough advice from friendly readers. So, without further ado, let's see the prototype team I came up with. All art is by Ken Sugimori, who will always in my mind be THE Pokemon artist.

Umbreon
20090819214803%21197Umbreon.png



Item: Chople Berry (Testing Focus Sash and Quick Claw)
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
Nature: Careful
- Mean Look
- Wish
- Baton Pass
- Toxic

I'll be honest, I don't like Umbreon, I never really have. It took a look at the page to really see how this gem could be useful. The reason I'm testing this as a lead is most leads are Suicides, or God willing, Choiced. What I would give to have Encore on this set, between that and Mean Look I could set up as I pleased. As it is, I can still begin setting up without fear of switches, though with Explosion on many leads, (not to mention Machamp, though at least I have a switch in in Espeon) I don't see the experiment getting far. Still, don't know unless you try. Mean Look is gold in an environment full of Choice items. Locked onto an attack, it's not a problem switching to a counter. Toxic provides pseudo offense, and helps against troublesome Blissy. (Also, since Heal Bell is now on Glaceon, I'm testing replacing Toxic with Hidden Power Fighting) I needed Wish on another Pokemon to be sure of recovery, so I included that as well.


Vaporeon

20090819060026%21134Vaporeon.png


Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Aqua Ring
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Surf

 Vaporeon fulfills her standard role as a Healer and Sub-Passer in one. This wall barely needs an introduction, and as luck would have it, she isn't too shabby with a STAB Surf either. Bold is the chosen nature, as I'm in need of a decent Physical Wall. Ingrain, Leftovers, Aqua Ring and the Recovery abilities of Vaporeon and Jolteon are almost needed, as one fainting ends the never ending chain of Passes. The EV spead is standard for Baton Pass Vaporeon, but I'm looking for a way to increase the Special Attack EVs without sacrificing anything. Aqua Ring is chosen over Wish, as it takes 2 turns to work, and on a team of Eeveelutions, Wish can be placed somewhere else

Jolteon

20090819055147%21135Jolteon.png


Item: Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Agility
- Charge Beam
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

Agility Passer of the group, and the immunity to Electric attacks doesn't hurt either. I wasn't going to include Substitute, but the added Bulk helped keep the chain safe. Ice coverage was taken over by the inclusion of Glaceon. I'm surprised that Jolteon isn't used as an agility Passer, it was his main role back in GSC. I daigress though. As for attacking, Charge Beam is the chosen STAB, as the boosts themselves can also be Passed.

Glaceon

471Glaceon.png


Item: Leftovers
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Nature: Calm
- Barrier
- Ice Beam
- Baton Pass
- Heal Bell
This little beauty was suggested by Reeve. Umbreon is a much better Curse passer then Flareon. I lose the high Attack, but Flareon just didn't offer anything else. Ice Beam covers the infamous Dragons, and Barrier, an unusual but appreciated move, fits into the Pass chain nicely. Now testing Heal Bell in the fourth slot. Since Blissy never has any real offense, I'm not too worried. One fully set up in the Passes, boosted Specials should bring her down. If not, Toxic on Umbreon or Synchronize on Espeon and Umbreon should wittle her down with Toxic. Status sucks, we all know that, so Heal Bell is a very necessary addition. Hidden Power Fighting is still in reserve though if Steels and Tyranitar become problems. The nature and EVs also help turn Glaceon herself into a Special Wall, something I was seriously lacking in my first attempts (and Walls in general actually.)

Espeon

20090819214524%21196Espeon.png


Item: Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Signal Beam

My Calm Mind Passer, I considered using the Dual Screen variant, but that just used too many move slots, and Glaceon can't learn Calm Mind (much to my regret). Psychic as a type in general isn't used much in OU, but with Espeon's Special Attack, what Psychic does hit, it hits hard. Signal Beam was added to provide better coverage then the previous slot filler Shadow Ball.

Smeargle

20090718044545%21235Smeargle.png


Item: Leftovers (Testing Quick Claw)
Ability: Technician
EVs: 96 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Spore
- Ingrain
- Baton Pass
- Rapid Spin

Somewhat copied the Ingrain Pass Smeargle on Smogon, this little number prevents phasing that can ruin the cumulative stat boosts. I considered swapping Spore for Fake Out, but who in their right mind says no to guaranteed sleep? One thing that is obviously lacking on a team mostly of Eeveelutions, (I let in Smeargle due to Ingrain) is the lack of entry hazards, both setting them up and resisting them. Rapid Spin, weak as it is, does gain STAB, and can be boosted if Smeargle is passed stats later on. While it's best to get Ingrain in as soon as possible, this guy works best when Passed speed, so he's not qualified to be the lead. The EVs were from the site, and I'm having trouble finding an appropriate item, so any suggestions are welcome.

Lot's to learn, and maybe it's a laughable idea, but it's a fun experiment anyway. Don't be too harsh. If any members are going to be replaced, obviously I'd like to stick with the Eevees. And for the record, yeah, I know entery hazards kind of rip me apart, but hey, that's what rates are for in the first place correct?
 
I'm just not feelin it with this team...

Your smeargle is not holding a focus sash. This isnt very safe.
Lead Machamp could parade through your smeargle if holding a lum berry (which like ever machamp does)
Lead Aerodactyl would also do the same aswell plus is could set up rocks, taunt your entire team, and make a large dent in it too.

I just dont like the way your jolteon is set up i mean i see why you are using charge beam but a jolteon with leftovers and no thunderbolt....?

Flareon....ugh. My opinion Flareon is a REALLY bad selection I mean Id go with Glaceon over Flareon. Even after a curse it really cant take anything EQ would just demolish it.
Leafeon can set up yeah, but how many flamethrowers do you expect to take? I dont think it can outspeed infernape!

You have no one with stealth rocks and a taunt would stop this team flat.
Every single guy on your team holds leftovers. Everyone but jolteon is easily outsped to the punch without an agility pass by jolteon and he could be killed very easily by scarfed flygon and heatran not to mention they can pretty much take most of your entire team down.
Basically as I look here, It lacks good defenses as well as overwhelming offenses and I dont really see the damage it could do, you've just overused baton pass way too much and its really hurting this team in my opinion.

Get some walls or sweepers and use some different items then leftovers(not vaporeon though) to enhance your pokes stats and capabilities!
~shad0w
 
Ok, thank you. Like I said, I was just introduced to the latest metagame this week, and researching the forums can only do so much. I posted this team kind of expecting it to get hammered, but now at least I can start making changes.

I am indeed weak to Taunt, and Smeargle needs a Sash. I forgot to make that change.

As for Flareon, my thought was the need for a Physical Sweeper, and with the massive amount of Heatrans out there, Flash Fire made a good Switch in (though admittedly if not Choiced, Earth Power would run me over.)

As I look further, other then Vaporeon, nothing has a a lot of Bulk, which is why there are so many Recovery options. I don't know much about items, so I probably need the most help there.

The theory was to keep Passing boosts in an infinite loop of increasing stats, but in the current game, especially with a theme team, it's probably simply outclassed.

Still, I'll test Curse Glaceon, as well as other ways of adding Bulk and Offensive Power.

Changes will come soon. Anyone else?

P.S. Don't even feel the need to sugar coat anything. Be honest, be brutal. This team is in need of a LOT of work.
 
Let me just start off by saying this is an awesome idea, even if it might not work. I can't wait to see it in action. Would you let me copy the team and try it out? Not as my main team or anything, just once or twice?

I don't see much point in using Flareon and Leafeon. I think you'd be better off with a Mean Look Umbreon. Most of the time with a Baton Pass team, you want to be setting up rather than attacking, and Umbreon's stats are better distributed in that regard than any other Eeveelution. If you can Mean Look a Choiced pokemon, the game is pretty much over, since you can set up for as long as you want. Snatch can give you random boosts to pass on when enemies see Umbreon and decide to set up, and it Wishes as well as Vaporeon does. In addition, Curse could support Flareon or Leafeon should you choose to keep either of them. Try not to only use Baton Pass for stat boosts - it helps other support moves just as much.

197.png

Umbreon @ Chople Berry
-Mean Look
-Baton Pass
-Wish/Toxic
-Snatch/Taunt/Toxic

Sorry about not EV'ing, I haven't experimented with it enough to know how. You probably want default Smogon EV's.

Glaceon makes a great Passer, if you ask me. You already have Calm Mind for special defense, and right now you've got Flareon's Curse for physical defense, but Flareon's not worth using if you ask me. Barrier is a move for Glaceon not suggested on Smogon's sets, but it doesn't mess with your Agility passes, and if you drop Leafeon and Flareon, the physical attack boost on Curse doesn't matter at all. Defense/special defence boosts will be essential on a team with limited recovery options (Wish takes two turns to work). And, of course, that ridiculous special attack makes Glaceon a great sweeper after you pass it some speed and/or Calm Mind.

How about:
476.png

Glaceon @ Leftovers
-Baton Pass
-Barrier
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power Fighting/Wish/Heal Bell

The Hidden Power hits Blissey after some boosts from Espeon's Calm Mind as well as the Steels you're concerned about. Wish allows you to heal up while using Barrier, invaluable in certain situations. Another option for that fourth slot is Heal Bell to help deal with Toxic Spikes or basically any other status.

With no physical attackers, as per the team I've suggested, you will definitely have trouble with Blissey and other special walls. The only way I can think to deal with them while still keeping Smeargle for Ingrain and Rapid Spin (great idea by the way) is to give one or two of your Eeveelutions Toxic and stall it out after Mean Looking it so that it can't take advantage of Natural Cure. Also, you could switch in Espeon or Umbreon when Blissey uses Toxic to Synchronize it, and then Umbreon can Mean Look right away. Vaporeon's Substitutes will be very, very useful, too. Last but not least, if whatever wall you're up against isn't doing much damage, you can take the opportunity to start boosting like crazy, especially with Calm Mind. Once your Psychic is +6, you should be able to kill that Blissey no problem.

I suggest using Vaporeon as your lead. It can kill several common leads, such as Infernape, Heatran, and Aerodactyl, with its STAB Surf. You should give it some SpA EV's though. It gives you a chance to set up a Substitute to pass. If you're going to go this route, though, you should probably trade Wish for Aqua Ring. Loss of Wish won't be a problem if you use Wish on another pokemon or two, as I've suggested, and Aqua Ring stacked with Leftovers and Ingrain gives you strong recovery every turn.

134.png

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
-Surf
-Baton Pass
-Substitute
-Aqua Ring

Moving on, Espeon's Shadow Ball is actually not a great idea - it does take out Ghosts, but they don't resist Psychic anyways, and your real problem is gonna be with Darks, who are immune to Psychic. I would suggest Signal Beam for taking down Darks. Among Ghosts, Gengar is OHKO'd by your Psychic, and Rotom-A and Dusknoir aren't gonna like switching into STAB Psychic off that huge special attack. Another option is Toxic, which will help immensely against special walls.

196.png

Espeon @ Leftovers
-Psychic
-Calm Mind
-Baton Pass
-Signal Beam/Substitute/Toxic

The Substitute could be really important because if you haven't used Barrier at least once, Espeon will die to most physical hits. Sub after switching into something you can kill easily, and you won't have to worry about it. The next turn you can Calm Mind if the switch-in is slower than you or Baton Pass right away if they're faster. The exact same thing is true for Jolteon:

135.png

Jolteon @ Leftovers
-Charge Beam
-Agility
-Baton Pass
-Substitute

Use the Substitute the same way. You really don't need more than one attack on most of these guys, since you'll be switching back and forth whenever you can get a better type matchup, right?

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about Steels that much. Most of their special defenses suck, and after boosting, both Jolteon and Vaporeon can handle them easily. Actually, that's another reason not to use Flareon - Steels' physical defense allows them to handle unboosted physical attacks pretty easily, even if they're super effective.

All in all, a pretty cool team. Can I use it once or twice? I hope it works well, and welcome to Smogon! I'll post again if I have more ideas.
 
Wow. Thanks a million! In fact, if anything I should be asking your permission for a team!

That helps plug most of the holes I noticed in the team. I'll try those suggestions, and tweak anything that needs adjusting.

Edit: Many suggestions were taken, and the entire team has been updated. Team has now begun playtesting, but please continue to rate.
 
Hey one quick thing on the corrected team: you don't want Focus Sash on a non-lead, as Stealth Rock will break it (it doesn't work if you don't have 100% health when you're hit), so take it off Smeargle. You might consider it on lead Vaporeon, but not much can one-hit KO Vaporeon, so it's a little pointless. You should also say outright in this post that Vaporeon is your lead, since nobody has a way to see that as it is now.
 
Testing a couple new things. Blissy isn't one of my concerns, as she really doesn't pack much offense, so I decided to use her to set up as she walls instead.

Speed is getting to be a tough issue, so I'm testing Quick Claw on a couple Pokemon, as well as testing Smeargle and Umbreon as leads.

I kind of miss Curse, as it powered up Rapid Spin into more then just a utility move, but there's no other Physical attacker to take advantage of it.

Status was also becoming a pain, so I added Heal Bell on Glaceon.

The funnest thing about the team so far is the "WTF" factor. It's so unusual, many don't know what to do about it.

Also, I'm having trouble finding what stats to boost first. In theory it should be Jolteon, but Ground attacks on so many leads is killing me.

Also, I still don't know how to deal with Tyranitar. Between him and Steels Hidden Power Fighting is kind of missed.
 
No recipiant, it's a never ending chain of growing boosts. It's an experiment, and one not going as well as I'd hoped I'm afraid.

I still don't have a good lead, and with Heal Bell replacing Hidden Power Fighting, Tyranitar has become a pain, especially without any way to get rid of Sandstorm.
 
*sigh* I'm not fond of bumping, but I'm still in need of advice, and it's been more then twenty-four hours. Consider my bumping chip officially cashed.
 
Honestly, I would stay away from these chains. I've fought about 5 of them and beat every one with little to no preparation in combating them. Haze eats right through your plan.
 
TDSGoldenSun said:
Honestly, I would stay away from these chains. I've fought about 5 of them and beat every one with little to no preparation in combating them. Haze eats right through your plan.
Click to expand...
hell. Roar goes through the plan. Its interesting, and fun. But in todays metagame, its just not plausible. One wrong move, or not OHKOing skarmory means you have to start all over again.
 
Your entire chain would be ruined if someone found a hole in your set-ups, and someone might as well set up on you. It seems like a good idea, but like KidX stated, you have no recipient. Let's say, in theory, you managed to get all your boosts to the max. What then?
 
Hey I got your PM, this team is creative... I don't really see you changing too many members, but you need a recipient for all of these boosts... So you need to make a change of some kind. I'd like to replace Smeargle, but since Ingrain is so important, he'll have to stay. The majority of this team is focused around special boosts, so why not have an Infernape receiver? With this chain, Vacuum Wave + Fire Blast + Close Combat + Grass Knot would be pretty beast. I don't know, just a thought, but him in over Jolteon maybe? I can't really give this the rate is deserves, because I'm not really a baton passing fan. Hope you appreciate the bump at least. :)
 
Yeah. Thanks to everyone for the help, and I love the fact that I tried a team like this, but Baton Pass and boosters just doesn't leave enough versatility in the moveslots to deal with the OU metagame, even if I expanded out of the Eevee family.

I guess I'll have to look into creating another team.
 
Just a suggestion for your next "creative team"

15. As a site dedicated to competitive battling, we request that your team is as competitive as possible within its given metagame. In-game teams and gimmick teams will be closed. Battle Tower teams are permitted. "Theme Teams" are also OK as long as they demonstrate an understanding of the competitive metagame they are to be used in.
Click to expand...

http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=119&a=121

I'm not trying come off as an asshole or a mini-mod, but honestly, don't post this kind of teams, you and myself know that this kind of teams have a very little to no chance of being successful in competitive battling, especially in D/P, so just a word of advice, if you're focusing on using something competitive yet "creative/original" and post it here, then I'm pretty sure a real TR won't hesitate in tearing apart your team.

Just saying
 
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