Flygon (Placeholder)

ENZ0

is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Flygon is cooler then Garchomp...

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[Overview]
  • Overall Flygon remains relatively unchanged, but the addition of Dragon Tail and Claw Sharpen may help it find a new niche.
  • Dual Dragon/Ground typing gives it great coverage with a handy electric immunity.
  • Base 100 Spe let it outspeed the new dragons this generation making it a key check to them.
  • Can come in easily on the new behemoth of Doryuuzu, while taking on the new Rock-Types like Gigaiasu.
  • He break through most Steel-Types with his STAB Earthquake.
  • I can't help describing Flygon without mentioning his Dragon-Type brother Garchomp, who has a higher Base Atk and Spe. If Garchomp remains OU I can see Flygon moving into the lower tiers.
  • Has Levitate making it immune to ground moves and spikes, and U-turn for scouting, which set it apart from Garchomp.
  • Flygon shouldn't be undermined, because the way you use it becomes the defining factor in its help to your team.
[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge / Fire Blast
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly/Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Set Comments:
  • Using a Choice Scarf, Flygon becomes a key revenge killer and late-game sweeper.
  • Ononokusu, Sazandora, and his veteran brethren have to think twice before setting up.
  • Some of the most strongest pokemon this generation like Doryuuzu, Hihidaruma, Shandera, and Gigaiasu are threatened by Flygon.
  • Outrage will be its main form of attack with its higher damage output.
  • Earthquake is key for trying to take out Steel-types that resist Outrage.
  • Stone Edge can be used for flyers, while Fire Blast hits the numerous Grass and Bug-Types introduced and walling Steel-Types.
  • With U-turn, Flygon becomes a reliable scouter.
Additional Comments:
  • An Adamant nature can be used for more power, but isn't recommened because of its tail-gating brothers.
  • Dragon Claw is a decent choice if you don't want to get locked into Outrage, but doesn't compare in sheer power.
  • Enjoys entry hazards on the field, most importantly Stealth Rock, for late-game sweeping.
Teammates & Counters:
  • Pairs well with a Rapid Spinner.
  • Good combination with Water-Types like Tentacruel, Jellicent, etc.
PENDING: English Translations, Choice Scarf(more mentions), Choice Band, SubRoost, Special, ...

*Ideas are welcome.
 
Would a wallbreaker flygon work this gen? Something like:

Flygon@Life Orb/Leftovers
Naive/Hasty
80 atk/172 spA/252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Draco Meteor
-U-Turn/Outrage

I tried it out on my team and it works reasonably well, though I can see why it may be outclassed by something. (I just don't know what it is yet...)
 
woot woot finall, it's Flygon!

not sure about how effective this is, but the following is a set that sets him apart from garchomp

Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Earthquake / Roost
Heavy investment in special attack, makes a great switchin to Excadrill etc, and has roost to replenish HP lost from LO. kinda weak though...
 
You should probably note that apart from its superior typing, Flygon is largely outclassed by Hydreigon this generation, who has the same attack stat but a much higher special attack stat, moves like Surf and Dark Pulse, and it can still act as a dandy Scarfer scout thanks to U-Turn.
 
ENZ0 said:
[Overview]
  • Has Levitate making it immune to ground moves and spikes, and U-turn for scouting, which set it apart from Garchomp.
...

Teammates & Counters:
  • Pairs well with a Rapid Spinner.
Click to expand...
...? I don't understand. Flygon's even resistant to Stealth Rock, on top of immune to every other hazard.

Really don't want this guy in UU. That's Altaria's turf. Stay out. ):

-Zane
 
Well, Flygon finally got itself a boosting move, Hone Claws. It may not be much, but it really helps him boost his only above avergae attack. Personally, I've been running:

Flygon @ Life Orb
~ Hone Claws
~ Outrage / Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Blast / Stone Edge
Naive / Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Hone Claws allows Flygon to boost his attack to respectable levels, while giving him a boost in accuracy as well. Outrage gives you power, Dragon Claw prevents you being locked into a move, and Earthquake is your Ground STAB. Fire Blast appreciates the accuracy raise, and hits Ferrothorn, while Stone Edge gives you the EdgeQuake combo. Since Flygon's been asking for a boosting move and finally got one, I think it deserves its own set.
 
The3DOstrich said:
Well, Flygon finally got itself a boosting move, Hone Claws. It may not be much, but it really helps him boost his only above avergae attack. Personally, I've been running:

Flygon @ Life Orb
~ Hone Claws
~ Outrage / Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Blast / Stone Edge
Naive / Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Hone Claws allows Flygon to boost his attack to respectable levels, while giving him a boost in accuracy as well. Outrage gives you power, Dragon Claw prevents you being locked into a move, and Earthquake is your Ground STAB. Fire Blast appreciates the accuracy raise, and hits Ferrothorn, while Stone Edge gives you the EdgeQuake combo. Since Flygon's been asking for a boosting move and finally got one, I think it deserves its own set.
Click to expand...

Take note...

Garchomp:
Offenses: 130 / 80 / 102
Defenses: 108 / 95 / 85
Flygon:
Offenses: 100 / 80 / 100
Defenses: 80 / 80 / 80

Access to Hone Claws, Earthquake, Outrage, Dragon Claw, Stone Edge, and Fire Blast? Yes.

The ONLY reason to use Flygon for this set, over Garchomp, is immunity to Spikes and Ground-type attacks. That's honestly not enough to make up for the speed-tying 100 Speed and only okay 100 attack, along with unimpressive defenses.

-Zane
 
No Choice Band? Please write that. Access to hazard immunity and edge-quake resist is reason enough to consider Choice Band Flygon on your team.

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge / Fire Blast
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

I'd rather take the power than the speed or at least slash it. What does Jolly base 100 Flygon outspeed that Adamant doesn't? +1 Haxorus. Thats about it. Other than that... don't give me that "tying with base 100" bullshit.
 
CB is probably worth testing, yeah. Not being effected by Spikes/Toxic Spikes plus access to U-TURN differentiates Flygon enough, IMO.

And on the topic of U-turn, it should be the first slot, since it is like the one thing making Flygon worth using.
 
Prius said:
Flygon @ LifeOrb
Naive/Hasty
80 atk/172 spA/252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Draco Meteor
-U-Turn / Roost
Click to expand...
This is my very favorite Flygon set. To quote the 4th gen analysis:
Unlike the physical Life Orb set, which seeks to defeat enemies through brute force, this Flygon set works as a lure. It is easy to fool many players into thinking that this Flygon is the popular Choice Scarf set, which means that the opponent (likely expecting a U-turn) will be inclined to switch in Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Gliscor, and Dragonite, all of whom are handily defeated by Draco Meteor. Fire Blast is used for Skarmory, Forretress, and Bronzong, while Earthquake deals with other Steel-types and 2HKOes Calm Blissey with aid from residual damage. The fourth moveslot depends on your needs. Roost is invaluable against stall teams, but it is difficult to find the opportunity to use the move against offensive teams. Conversely, U-turn is useful to scout switch-ins and deal more damage on offensive teams, but has little utility against stall.
Click to expand...

Sadly, offensively Flygon is vastly outclassed by other dragons. There's a reason Flygon saw very little usage in Gen 4 when Latias, Latios, Garchomp, and Salamence were rampaging 4th gen OU. Although Flygon is immune to both Electric and Ground, it's still plagued by being very easily defeated by Dragon and Ice attacks, as well as strong attacks in general.
 
As long as his Dragon brethren are around, he will probably fall into the lower tiers in due time sadly. Good thing he has that 100 base or he'd be gone for sure. The only sets that should be posted right now are the Choice sets. Possibly combine them. A Hone Claws set is a terrible idea in my opinion. I'm not to sure about sets using Roost yet. Possibly a Life Orb set with the move, but that's it.
 
Thanks for the ideas, and yeah I put the CB set pending it's a notice at the bottom -.- And, Zane I put it pairs well with a rapid spinner primarily because spikestackers set up easily on the CS set. Remember, I still have stuff to add, just wanted to put Flygon out there already. I agree aero a claw sharpen set seems ineffective, but I will try to test it. Also, RL where does it say tying with base 100 in my post, imo contribute and please leave your "bullshit" out.

P.S. We all know Flygon has troubles in Gen 5, but lets try to go off mostly his selling points to make the best out of him please.
 
ENZ0 said:
And, Zane I put it pairs well with a rapid spinner primarily because spikestackers set up easily on the CS set.
Click to expand...

Ah, okay. I would just mention that Forretress and Skarmory can easily set up Spikes on any attack except Fire Blast, considering that is a rather vague statement.

-Zane
 
raikoulover meant that when you write it up properly, don't mention that it ties with other base 100s, because that's next to useless this gen. He never meant that what you wrote is "bullshit".
 
I've fooled with Hone Claws Flygon a bit, and I've never found myself saying, "Wow, I'm sure glad I had Flygon instead of SD Chomp on my team." I did, however, find Flygon bouncing off of things I should have been able to KO. +1 atk/+1 acc DRush isn't 100% accuracy (IIRC), and it just won't get the job done against most walls and tanks.

Some random damage calcs:

252 atk Jolly LO Flygon's +1 EQ/Dragon Rush against...
0 HP 0 Def Cloyster: 66.4% - 78.4% - Hello Shell Break! Had this happen to me.
Max def Eviolite Dusclops: 37.3% - 44.4%
Max HP 0 def Impish Dusknoir: 63.6% - 75.5% - Ice Punch OHKOs back.
Max HP 184 def Impish Gliscor: 48.6% - 57.6% - Some sets run more def, some less. Some sets run Ice Fang and will 2HKO back, some don't.
Max def Gyarados (after Intimidate): 38.2% - 45% - Stone Edge does 50.9% - 60.1%.
156 HP / 96 Def Adamant Gyarados (after Intimidate): 52.2% - 61.6% - Stone Edge does 69.7% - 82.2%. This is the "Bulky Dragon Dance" spread from both the Gen4 and Gen5 analysis.
Max def Hippowdon: 40.7% - 48.1%
Max def Slowbro: 45.2% - 53.6%
Max def Vaporeon: 56.4% - 66.3%

+1 Flygon does cleanly OHKO Starmie, and Rotom-W needs more bulk than most people seem to be running to survive it.

Anyway. tl;dr version: Hone Claws Flygon does shit for damage, please don't add it to the analysis.
 
Seeing as Garchomp seems to be in OU to stay, I'm afraid that Flygon will, in fact, fall down to UU. As much as this has been said [too much, actually], it is still worth preparing for.

Still, the Hone Claws set could work. It's inferior to Swords Dance Garchomp, but it can prove viable if used at the right moment. Oh, why couldn't Flygon have gotten Dragon Rush? With Hone Claws, Flygon could be much deadlier to switch into that way.
 
Expert belt should be used on any mixgon set to bluff being choiced (seriously, who excepts mix flygon?)

Also, what about a Screech set?
 
Mooo said:
Expert belt should be used on any mixgon set to bluff being choiced (seriously, who excepts mix flygon?)

Also, what about a Screech set?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Screech worked last generation, and it gives Flygon a sort of a niche: causing switches compiled with sweeping those that decide to stay in.
 
madgenius2013 said:
Yeah. Screech worked last generation, and it gives Flygon a sort of a niche: causing switches compiled with sweeping those that decide to stay in.
Click to expand...

That was last generation. You can test it, but I'm sure it has little viability in standard. I guess it can work against defensive switch-ins like before, putting them in a position to be hit hard or let a teammate take the hit, but it doesn't warrant its own set.
 
madgenius2013 said:
Still, the Hone Claws set could work. It's inferior to Swords Dance Garchomp, but it can prove viable if used at the right moment. Oh, why couldn't Flygon have gotten Dragon Rush? With Hone Claws, Flygon could be much deadlier to switch into that way.
Click to expand...

Doesn't it? I recalled that it did (it's been a while since I fiddled with Flygon), and all of those damage calcs above are with Dragon Rush or Earthquake, since they're usually interchangeable. Needless to say, not terribly deadly!

Come to think of it, the Gliscor damage did seem a little high...

Mooo said:
Expert belt should be used on any mixgon set to bluff being choiced (seriously, who excepts mix flygon?)

Also, what about a Screech set?
Click to expand...
Nobody expects mix Flygon, because mix Hydreigon or mix Salamence do everything mix Flygon does beside surprise people.

As for Screech, Screech Flygon is kind of like SD Chomp, except you lose your boost after a switch or KO, Espeon/Xatu/Bisharp laugh in your face, and your set up move can miss. It was marginal last gen, when SD Chomp was uber and Haxorus, Terrakion, and Magic Mirror didn't exist.

Many posts seem to be coming from the direction of "Here's Flygon, we must find a use for it." That's ass-backwards. I've yet to see anyone offer a practical answer to the question "How does my team benefit from the addition of Flygon instead of the many other available options?"
 
A Man In Black said:
Many posts seem to be coming from the direction of "Here's Flygon, we must find a use for it." That's ass-backwards. I've yet to see anyone offer a practical answer to the question "How does my team benefit from the addition of Flygon instead of the many other available options?"
Click to expand...

Then the lack of "answers" to the question you point out should be an answer itself in what Flygon can do for your team. Simple as that. His most notable attributes (great typing combined with Levitate) are of little importance in the standard game this generation.

I shouldn't bring it up here and this early, but look at it this way. If Flygon gets regulated to a lower tier in the future, he would certainly be able to use his strengths to a better degree. If that happens, then the analysis would certainly have room for mixed sets, Screech, and other possible options.
 
Aerodactyl Legend said:
I shouldn't bring it up here and this early, but look at it this way. If Flygon gets regulated to a lower tier in the future, he would certainly be able to use his strengths to a better degree. If that happens, then the analysis would certainly have room for mixed sets, Screech, and other possible options.
Click to expand...

Well, I may as well start EV training a Flygon... I feel like I'm cheating on Altaria. ):

Flygon has that nifty EdgeQuake resistance as well. Too bad it just doesn't have enough bulk. However, it does broaden what enemies it can take on, since a lot of Pokémon rely on Edgequake coverage, even solely.

-Zane
 
I'd rather take the power than the speed or at least slash it. What does Jolly base 100 Flygon outspeed that Adamant doesn't? +1 Haxorus. Thats about it. Other than that... don't give me that "tying with base 100" bullshit.
Click to expand...

Scarf Hydreigon, yo.
 
am zane ok. said:
Flygon has that nifty EdgeQuake resistance as well. Too bad it just doesn't have enough bulk. However, it does broaden what enemies it can take on, since a lot of Pokémon rely on Edgequake coverage, even solely.
Click to expand...

What Pokemon rely on Edgequake for coverage and fear Flygon's middling offenses? The only time I ever seem to see SE/EQ as coverage is on bulky utility/setup Pokemon who will see Flygon as an opportunity to do their utility job or set up. Sending Flygon into SD Gliscor's Swords Dance or Spinner Excadrill's Rapid Spin isn't going to be a good play. Air Balloon was the final nail in the coffin of Rock/Ground as "good" coverage, and countering it just doesn't seem as important in the abstract any more.

Another note that hasn't been mentioned: The new dragon competition doesn't just punish Flygon by being better at the same job. In conjunction with Landuros, buffed Chlorophyll sweepers, and to some extent Gliscor, they encourage people to have some way to deal with fast, middling-bulk Ice-weak sweepers/scarfers, so everyone has Flygon counters by accident. They weren't thinking about CB Flygon when they made this team, but oops it turns out Landorus just happens to have HP Ice, how about that.

I don't mean to be dumping a bunch of venom and negativity on this thread. I just simply want to make it clear that CB, CS, mixed or physical Hone Claws, LO or bait mixed, bulky DTail, or Screech Flygon, all of which are roughly identical to and strictly inferior to similar sets on Hax/Mence/Nite/Drei/Chomp, won't fly because those dragons do those jobs better and people already have counters/checks for them. You'll need to either figure out how Flygon can do the job without being beaten by the conventional counters/checks or find some innovative new use for Flygon. It's a tall order.
 
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