Follow The Leader [Pre Viability Ranking Discussion!]

[Martin]

Aurorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Facade

Kyurem @ Choice Band
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Icespam ahoy! Prepare to be overwhelmed!

 

[canno]

Sure, Mew gives you some ridiculous coverage and has an overall better movepool. However, Victini has some absolutely ridiculous coverage moves - Bolt Strike, V-Create, maybe a little Searing Shot if you want a spicier Fire Blast. While its movepool isn't as good as Mews, you still have access to tools like Wisp, U-Turn, Taunt, and Trick alongside some of the less stellar coverage like Focus Blast and Energy Ball.

This seems like a fun meta overall.

 

[sin(pi)]

Hey remember why Dynamic Punch and Zap Cannon were banned from MnM?

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Synchronize (-> No Guard)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Zap Cannon
- Blizzard/Hyper Voice
- Dynamic Punch/Nasty Plot/Hyper Voice

Inherits from Mew.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

oml birdspam

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Steel Wing

Staraptor @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Return

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Swords Dance

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Steel Wing

Salamence @ Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Flare Blitz

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Steel Wing

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: multiscale (-> No Guard)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- hurriane
- thunder
- Blizzard
- focus blast

Thank u dragonite

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Hmm. This meta is basically "Mono-Inheritance" with exception of you can use original poke. That aside, why is Imposter allowed? People won't like another meta where you must imposter proofing every single poke in here like in BH, especially with a limited moves and ability.

 

[G-Luke]

Hmm. This meta is basically "Mono-Inheritance" with exception of you can use original poke. That aside, why is Imposter allowed? People won't like another meta where you must imposter proofing every single poke in here like in BH, especially with a limited moves and ability.

Honestly I didnt even realise that was still allowed. Its gonna get the banhammer just wait.

 

[SpiderKoloPL]

Hmm. This meta is basically "Mono-Inheritance" with exception of you can use original poke. That aside, why is Imposter allowed? People won't like another meta where you must imposter proofing every single poke in here like in BH, especially with a limited moves and ability.

Honestly I didnt even realise that was still allowed. Its gonna get the banhammer just wait.

How about BOOMBURST WITH PIXILATE BOOST FOR GARDEVOIR/ALTARIA MEGA?
It's just 182 power move with STAB.

Actually, when we can use ALL moves and abilitties from one pokemon for combining with any others, we just can make huge broken team.
Boomburst should be baned. Really.
Combining with any -ate abillity, Boomburst is exelent choises for a lot of Special pokemons. Unhealthy move for meta.

Ban for Boomburst, not Noivern, because this pokemon is such a amazing pokemon. And just Noivern wihout STAB Boomburst is stll acceptable.
Other reason: Boomburst is not move, what only Noivern can know. :P

EDIT 1: Not very important changes. Really.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

How about BOOMBURST WITH PIXILATE BOOST FOR GARDEVOIR/ALTARIA MEGA?
It's just 182 power move with STAB.

Actually, when we can use ALL moves and abilitties from one pokemon for combining with any others, we just can make huge broken team.
Boomburst should be baned. Really.
Combining with any -ate abillity, Boomburst is exelent choises for a lot of Special pokemons. Unhealthy move for meta.

Ban for Boomburst, not Noivern, because this pokemon is such a amazing pokemon. And just Noivern wihout STAB Boomburst is stll acceptable.
Other reason: Boomburst is not move, what only Noivern can know. :P

EDIT 1: Not very important changes. Really.

We actually never banned Boomburst in inheritance because it's beatable, really. This meta still have disgusting stuff like Prankster Sableye-Chansey, which is banned in Inheritance (and I think should be banned here too) which can beat it by Metal Burst.

Edit: Actually, G-Luke, I said this in ps but if if the pokemon aren't allowed to use their own moves and abilities, it'll be VERY match up based, considering the entire team basically can only fulfil one role unless it has Mew movepool.

Plus, allowing their own moves and abilities will prevent this meta from being called "Inheritance ripoff."

 

[G-Luke]

How about BOOMBURST WITH PIXILATE BOOST FOR GARDEVOIR/ALTARIA MEGA?
It's just 182 power move with STAB.

Actually, when we can use ALL moves and abilitties from one pokemon for combining with any others, we just can make huge broken team.
Boomburst should be baned. Really.
Combining with any -ate abillity, Boomburst is exelent choises for a lot of Special pokemons. Unhealthy move for meta.

Ban for Boomburst, not Noivern, because this pokemon is such a amazing pokemon. And just Noivern wihout STAB Boomburst is stll acceptable.
Other reason: Boomburst is not move, what only Noivern can know. :P

EDIT 1: Not very important changes. Really.

The other problem is what about the other four teammates. If you had not noticed, Noivern's movepool sucks. No set up. And limited options for four diverse teammates.

 

[SpiderKoloPL]

We actually never banned Boomburst in inheritance because it's beatable, really. This meta still have disgusting stuff like Prankster Sableye-Chansey, which is banned in Inheritance (and I think should be banned here too) which can beat it by Metal Burst.

Okay... what you want...
Still we have option to ban this move in future when we want. :D

Other think what I see here in meta:
Roserade with amazing movepool and abilities:
Technician Hidden Power - All pokemons have STAB 90 power move (okay, this is for special pokemons),
Natural Cure - Rest here give really good healing option and still we have Aromatherapy for option.

Also for Faries we have STAB Dazzling Gleam.
For Normal - Technician Shift.
I say about this pokemon, because I think earlier we must use THE SAME moveset for all pokemons. Now when I know it isn't a true - I think this pokemon Is really great much more.

And yeah - Poison Point. Can be usefull. Sometimes.

 

[Martin]

Roserade sounds like a pretty poor donor on the basis that its movepool/ability pool is pretty "eh" at best and because using it as your donor means you can't use other, better donors with better movepools to offer such as Audino, Chansey, Togekiss, Mew etc.

 

[nightsitter]

Why is Archeops banned? It rarely ends up being as broken as everyone hypes it up to be when it gets new abilities. Everyone else is already getting insane abilities anyway

 

[EV]

I see Magic Guard as being quite a good ability for the lead Pokemon. All Pokemon are 'immune' to entry hazards and statuses, as long as they have the ability.

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice

Thoughts on it?

All Moves

Ally Switch, Attract, Barrier, Body Slam, Calm Mind, Captivate, Charge Beam, Confide, Confusion, Counter, Dazzling Gleam, Disable, Double Team, Double-Edge, Drain Punch, Dream Eater, Dynamic Punch, Embargo, Encore, Endure, Energy Ball, Facade, Fire Punch, Flash, Fling, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Foul Play, Frustration, Future Sight, Giga Impact, Grass Knot, Gravity, Guard Split, Guard Swap, Headbutt, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Ice Punch, Iron Tail, Kinesis, Knock Off, Light Screen, Magic Coat, Magic Room, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Metronome, Mimic, Miracle Eye, Natural Gift, Nightmare, Power Trick, Protect, Psybeam, Psych Up, Psychic, Psycho Cut, Psycho Shift, Psyshock, Rain Dance, Recover, Recycle, Reflect, Rest, Return, Role Play, Round, Safeguard, Secret Power, Seismic Toss, Shadow Ball, Shock Wave, Signal Beam, Skill Swap, Sleep Talk, Snatch, Snore, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Taunt, Telekinesis, Teleport, Thief, Thunder Punch, Thunder Wave, Torment, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room, Wonder Room, Zen Headbutt

Zam has nice options on both sides of the attacking spectrum plus a healthy dose of status.

Physical: Body Slam, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Foul Play, Ice Punch, Iron Tail, Knock Off, Thunder Punch, Zen Headbutt
Special: Charge Beam, Dazzling Gleam, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Future Sight, Grass Knot, Psychic, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam
Status: Calm Mind, Disable, Encore, Gravity, Light Screen, Magic Coat, Recover, Reflect, Skill Swap, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Torment, Trick, Trick Room
Lacks: Momentum, hazards, hazard control, physical setup, cleric support

Sadly it also lacks in strong Fire, Electric, Ice, Water, or Ground coverage, which are some pretty important offensive types.

Off the top of my head I can see faster offensive teams benefiting the most with access to utility such as Taunt, Disable, and Encore to screw up slower threats. There's also some toys for walls should you choose to run them. Mega Aggron (or any bulkmon really) will appreciate Recover, can run Knock Off to dampen targets, paralyze them with Thunder Wave, and eat away at their health with Seismic Toss (because Iron Tail ;_;) or Foul Play. Skill Swap is also a cool tool because abilities are going to be pretty important in this metagame, so the chance to steal one away for yourself that's normally very exclusive may work out in your favor.

 

[SpiderKoloPL]

(...)
Zam has nice options on both sides of the attacking spectrum plus a healthy dose of status.

Physical: Body Slam, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Foul Play, Ice Punch, Iron Tail, Knock Off, Thunder Punch, Zen Headbutt
Special: Charge Beam, Dazzling Gleam, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Future Sight, Grass Knot, Psychic, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam
Status: Calm Mind, Disable, Encore, Gravity, Light Screen, Magic Coat, Recover, Reflect, Skill Swap, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Torment, Trick, Trick Room
Lacks: Momentum, hazards, hazard control, physical setup, cleric support
(...)

Banette for Prankster Disable/Encore combo?
With Recover? And Taunt?
Well... immunity from E-Speed, with prankster Disable for removing first (propably super effective or just the strongest move), and next Encore into disabled move.
Also just Disable into Scarf move just give Strugle in second turn.

Beatiful. :D

One thing is immune on this strategy...
Magic Bounce.
But for this we have Skill Swap. :D

 

[Ghoul King]

Multiscale doubles durability, it doesn't increase it by 50%.

Protean could be really fun. Granted, you are forced to have 5 competitive offensive Pokémon and Kecleon, but it has a vast physical and special movepool and even Recover for bulkier offens. Unfortunately you won´t have any entry hazards or hazard removal either. Yeah, maybe scratch that Protean.

... Kecleon has Stealth Rock.

Well...
Spam Contrary team?
We have capital Leader:

Malamar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Destiny Bond
- Facade

Destiny Bond is removal for any pokemon what can stop this monster. Also he give this set for Hoopa.
Mega Lopuny is nice follower, because we can change this abillity into Scrapy for monstrual damage.

Why would you want Scrappy Superpower? It won't be Contrary anymore.

All Moves

Ally Switch, Attract, Barrier, Body Slam, Calm Mind, Captivate, Charge Beam, Confide, Confusion, Counter, Dazzling Gleam, Disable, Double Team, Double-Edge, Drain Punch, Dream Eater, Dynamic Punch, Embargo, Encore, Endure, Energy Ball, Facade, Fire Punch, Flash, Fling, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Foul Play, Frustration, Future Sight, Giga Impact, Grass Knot, Gravity, Guard Split, Guard Swap, Headbutt, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Ice Punch, Iron Tail, Kinesis, Knock Off, Light Screen, Magic Coat, Magic Room, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Metronome, Mimic, Miracle Eye, Natural Gift, Nightmare, Power Trick, Protect, Psybeam, Psych Up, Psychic, Psycho Cut, Psycho Shift, Psyshock, Rain Dance, Recover, Recycle, Reflect, Rest, Return, Role Play, Round, Safeguard, Secret Power, Seismic Toss, Shadow Ball, Shock Wave, Signal Beam, Skill Swap, Sleep Talk, Snatch, Snore, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Taunt, Telekinesis, Teleport, Thief, Thunder Punch, Thunder Wave, Torment, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room, Wonder Room, Zen Headbutt

Zam has nice options on both sides of the attacking spectrum plus a healthy dose of status.

Physical: Body Slam, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Foul Play, Ice Punch, Iron Tail, Knock Off, Thunder Punch, Zen Headbutt
Special: Charge Beam, Dazzling Gleam, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Future Sight, Grass Knot, Psychic, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam
Status: Calm Mind, Disable, Encore, Gravity, Light Screen, Magic Coat, Recover, Reflect, Skill Swap, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Torment, Trick, Trick Room
Lacks: Momentum, hazards, hazard control, physical setup, cleric support

Sadly it also lacks in strong Fire, Electric, Ice, Water, or Ground coverage, which are some pretty important offensive types.

Off the top of my head I can see faster offensive teams benefiting the most with access to utility such as Taunt, Disable, and Encore to screw up slower threats. There's also some toys for walls should you choose to run them. Mega Aggron (or any bulkmon really) will appreciate Recover, can run Knock Off to dampen targets, paralyze them with Thunder Wave, and eat away at their health with Seismic Toss (because Iron Tail ;_;) or Foul Play. Skill Swap is also a cool tool because abilities are going to be pretty important in this metagame, so the chance to steal one away for yourself that's normally very exclusive may work out in your favor.

Not sure why you're saying Alakazam doesn't have Ice, Electric, or Fire coverage while listing its access to the Punches. Yeah, its Special end lacks such, but not its Physical end. Ground is a bit more of a problem, as Earthquake is so widely available on Pokemon so many things can donate Ground coverage, but not the end of the world. Water, meanwhile, is actually very difficult to find on Pokemon that aren't Water-type -even Surf isn't that common among non-Water types. (38 fully evolved Pokemon that aren't Ubers get Surf while not being Water types)

But yeah, Alakazam looks like it has some potential, even though it, itself, is a bit underwhelming with its movepool.

 

[EV]

Not sure why you're saying Alakazam doesn't have Ice, Electric, or Fire coverage while listing its access to the Punches.

Note I said strong coverage. 75 BP isn't stellar, even with STAB.

 

[SpiderKoloPL]

(...)
Why would you want Scrappy Superpower? It won't be Contrary anymore.
(...)

For STAB. Only for it...
But I write this one before I fully understand rules or this meta game.
I think earlier we must set one moveset for all pokemons. Now I know it is not a true.
I want later Edit this post for better strategy around Contrary. :P

 

[Stocke]

Trying to figure out what would be the best replacement for Kyurem-B on my Mawile team if it gets banned (which it most certainly will be...) Regular Kyurem or Mamoswine, maybe?

 

[Ghoul King]

Food for thought: Mew has access to over 220 different Moves. Ability is kind of crap, though.

Arceus has one of the wider movepools around, and it's only around 130~ different moves, as a point of contrast.

Most of the higher movepool counts I'm finding tend to be no more than about 120, and are often closer to 90-100~.

Gen I Pokemon tend to have very wide movepools, so they're liable to be good choices for a diverse team -of course, a lot of Gen I Pokemon have kind of meh Ability options, but then there's stuff like Slowbro (has access to more than 100 different moves and only Own Tempo is kind of meh as Abilities go), so there can be reason to look at later-gen Pokemon, as they are a little more prone to having really cool/good/diverse Abilities.

Clefable is liable to be a very important leader, with more than 130 different moves and two amazing Abilities.

To my surprise, most of the OU-tier Pokemon have fairly narrow movepools. (Talonflame has 53, for instance) They'll probably be good abusers, but a fair number of them will make poor leaders. It may be the case that lower-tier Pokemon will tend to dominate as leaders. If nothing else fairly unique/notable movepool/Ability combinations (eg Masquerain, as shown by Inheritance) are found on a number of lower tier Pokemon that can't put them to good enough effect.

Of course, there's also going to be stuff like Heatran being supported by stuff like Scizor. (Note that Heatran gets Bug Bite! No boosting or healing, unfortunately)

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Sooo

V-Create Spam

Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Glaciate
- Will-O-Wisp

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Energy Ball
- Glaciate

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Focus Blast
- V-create
- Glaciate
- Grass Knot

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Trick

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blue Flare
- Glaciate
- Grass Knot
- Trick

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Trick
- U-turn

???

 

[Ghoul King]

You're forced to use the Leader's Ability. All of those would be Victory Star. (Except for Mega Charizard X switching to Tough Claws)

You also are going to struggle with teams with Flashfire, and there's several neat Flashfire donors, including recovery-capable ones.

Still, it's a thing I guess. Not a very impressive thing, in all honesty... especially since the even more one-note Talonflame birdspam teams will utterly destroy you.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

... Kecleon has Stealth Rock.

Ninjas everywhere :)

Still, it's a thing I guess. Not a very impressive thing, in all honesty... especially since the even more one-note Talonflame birdspam teams will utterly destroy you.

What do you mean by one note here? I'm not sure how exactly to respond to this as I don't know what its saying.

Gimmick coming through!

gimmick

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- U-turn
- Facade

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psychic
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Scald

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Tail Glow
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball

stall team

stall

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play
- Toxic

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Metal Burst
- Night Shade

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Octazooka
- Will-O-Wisp

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Recover

 

[Stocke]

What do you mean by one note here? I'm not sure how exactly to respond to this as I don't know what its saying.

Talonflame's movepool is kind of bad so Talonflame-based teams will end up doing the same thing throughout the entire team (as in, spamming Brave Bird over and over)

at least, I think that's what it meant

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

/ds flash fire, recovery:
Arcanine, Flareon, Growlithe, Ponyta, Rapidash

The best one is arcanine, which isn't bad (it gets outrage, cc, crunch, espeed and flare blitz)

The other ones are outclassed, so by "some neat flashfire mons" I think you mean 1