Foreystall! (again)

Kier

Kier

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Forretress @ Leftovers *** Tin Strong
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
---
Spikes first turn puts pressure on my opponents switches right away. I usually don't lay down Toxic Spikes until I've scouted my opponents team; a lot of top Pt. threats are immune to them so it's usually not a good use of turns. Spinning is of the utmost priority when entry hazards are up, no question about it.

Forretress makes a surprisingly good lead in Platinum, especially with all the Trick leads. I don't mind a Scarf on this guy at all, since I'm Spiking first turn anyway. Rapid Spin takes one turn and then Forretress is out of there.

Max HP/Defense because I lack a Rock resist and want Forretress to be able to take Stone Edges if need be.


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Rotom-w @ Choice Scarf *** Eyewash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/100 Def/156 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Will-o-wisp
- Trick
---
Replacing Nidoqueen is Rotom-h, who both serves as a spin blocker and a general annoyance to the opponents team with a couple of crippling moves. Tricking Choice Scarf gives me a way to stop set-up mons like CM Cresselia or Curselax.

Between Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, and Will-o-wisp, Rotom-h is beating every spinner. The EVs are rather arbitrary but I focused a bit more on Special Defense so I'm able to take Starmie Surfs more easily, and because I have WoW to compensate for the physical side.

Rotom-h also gives me an added layer of protection against beasties like SD Luke with Ice Punch, Scizor sans Pursuit, and Mamoswine even.

EDIT: Replaced Oven Rotom with his washing machine counterpart. Shadow Ball didn't hit anything totally necessary and Hydro Pump hits Tyranitar and Heatran who otherwise would be able to switch in with relative impunity. It also hits Infernape who gives me trouble unless I have spot-on prediction (only sometimes).


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Zapdos @ Leftovers *** Pop Song
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/200 Def/16 Spd/40 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Roost
- Roar
---
Zapdos is the lifeblood of this team, and once entry hazards are down Zapdos is able to take an entire team down by itself.

Once I get Zapdos in safely (Scizor makes it oh so easy) I will almost always Substitute. After I'm safe behind a Sub I will proceed to stall out my opponent's PP, or I will Roar and hopefully rack up some Spikes/SR damage. SubRoost stalling drains Stone Edge PP quickly, which is a great help to my team.

Again, the EVs are a bit arbitrary. Max HP and near max Defense because most of the stuff Zapdos is countering is physical (Scizor, Metagross etcetera). I believe I put 16 EVs into Speed to outspeed max Speed Adamant Breloom so I can Sub up before it Leech Seeds or Spores me (though honestly I have more than enough to deal with Breloom lol). The rest went into Special Defense which I guess helps preserve my Sub against Flamethrower Blissey and the like.


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Blissey @ Leftovers *** Darla
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/80 SAtk/176 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock
---
What's a stall team without Blissey? Stops special attackers cold and passes around Wish for the rest of the team. Blissey usually switches in "to the tune of a free switch" so getting Stealth Rock down is never an issue. Flamethrower hits a lot of potential switch-ins: Scizor, Lucario, Metagross, Mamoswine. It also hits unsuspecting Forretress and Skarmory who might see Darla as set-up fodder. Protect works well with Wish, scouts for things like Explosion, and drains the PP of moves like Seed Flare, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, or Dynamicpunch.

Standard EVs not really tailored to a specific purpose as far as I know (surprise). Max Defense helps me take some physical hits if need be, big Special Defense because that's what she's here for, and the rest in Special Attack to give Flamethrower a boost.

I'm actually considering Serene Grace over Natural Cure. The extra chance for a burn with Flamethrower could come in handy and I can see the merit in letting Blissey keep a certain status, like taking regular poison before a second layer Toxic Spikes gets down or keeping a Heat Wave burn to protect from unwanted Sleep/Toxic.

darla, they've brought your eggs into my kitchen
i know you're wishin' your bones weren't so soft
but your cage is just too small to move in,
we're fucking groovin' in the city
it's a pity that you can't be groovin' too, boo.


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Suicune @ Leftovers *** Cub
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/156 Def/100 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
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Cub is usually my go-to guy when Forretress has a dubious match-up. It often goes like this: I switch to Suicune on an Azelf Fire Blast, Azelf Stealth Rocks while I Surf for over half its HP, and I switch to Rotom on the Explosion.

Even though I have CM, I invested a few EVs in Special Defense for a few reasons. Suicune is usually my first switch into Heatran because of the possible threat of Explosion, and I will usually have to take a few Fire Blasts throughout the course of the match. Also, Suicune is my first switch into Salamence, and the Special Defense helps to take the odd Draco Meteor. Suicune lives through a DD LO Outrage from Salamence (even after SR damage) and OHKOs back with Ice Beam.

Suicune is also a reliable switch into Tyranitar and other Stone Edge users, despite the lack of a resist. At the very least, I can deplete some of that precious PP with Pressure.

Although I rarely get to set up Suicune, Cub is always ready to CM up against last mon stat-uppers (and thanks to Pressure + Rest, will usually come out on top.)

EDIT: Replaced Calm Mind with Sleep Talk now that I'm running Perish Song on Celebi. Perish Song now takes care of any endgame stat-uppers and Suicune is no longer a sitting duck (dog) while Resting.


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Celebi @ Leftovers *** Evangeline
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/156 Def/100 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Perish Song
- Recover
- Heal Bell
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Last but not least, Celebi serves as this team's cleric. This is especially important to Zapdos; an unwanted Toxic or Burn would make it a lot harder for Zapdos to just sit behind sub and stall. Leech Seed promotes switches, racking up residual damage in the process, and lets me pass healing around the team if I'm clever. Grass Knot and Recover are staples.

Again, arbitrary EVs. Some investment in Special Defense to better take Swampert Ice Beams or Zapdos Heat Waves.

Considering Perish Song over Leech Seed as Blissey can pass Wish and Perish Song forces switches just as well as Leech Seed does. Perish Song would also make it easier to deal with with opposing SubRoost Zapdos and CM Jirachi.

EDIT: Perish Song over Leech Seed gives me an alternate method of phasing and another way to deal with things that like to boost or hide behind Substitutes.




So that's Foreystall, slightly updated for Plat and working like a dream. This is by far my favorite team and it's quite fun to play with. It has great synergy, a gameplan for almost any threat, and I feel that neither a teamslot nor a moveslot is wasted on this team. Obviously I'm quite proud of this team but lack of a Rock resist could bite me in the ass. Usually I'm able to play around things like CB Tar by spreading damage around between Forretress and Suicune (and Zapdos if I can get it in safely) while trying to deplete Stone Edge's PP. I sort of foresee Sub/SD Rhyperior becoming more popular and I don't want to have to sacrifice Suicune just so I can get Celebi in, or vice versa. I just don't know what I would replace.

Thanks for reading!
 
only thing i see really is the lack of a rock resist makes switching into cb tyraintar a problem to fix this swampert could go in place of suicune
 
I see a problem with Protect/Wish Blissey as all of your team is specially based and fear being walled, and w/o SS, a Natural Cure Blissey even with Toxic spikes doesn't phase her as bad.
 
I don't see opposing Blissey as a problem whatsoever, donovantx8. Blissey can easily be pressure-stalled by Suicune or Zapdos, and in worse-case scenarios, he can make Blissey take a Scarf from Rotom. Also, when Blissey is the last Pokemon on the other team, Natural Cure is essentially useless. 4 of his 6 Pokemon have recovery moves, and Celebi's Heal Bell makes Blissey's statusing attempts fail.

I really think there has to be a Rock resist. Forretress is already doing a lot for this team, and if he has to eat CB Stone Edges, he won't be lasting long due to the lack of recovery. Be careful to not overload him. Losing Forretress, whom you are using for a lot of various roles, could be disaster.

As suggested earlier, Swampert could go in the place of Suicune. This is probably a hard move for you to make, as I'm sure Cune has saved you many battles; he is an elite Pokemon, no one will argue that. However, I think it would be in your best interest. I would suggest maybe the mono-attacking Curse set, because by losing Suicune, you lose your only possible sweep.

Outstanding team. Good Luck! Hope I helped.
 
Yeah I also suggest a Swampert or the like over Suicune...

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV's: 240 HP / 52 Atk / 216 Def
Relaxed Nature(+Def, -Spd)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk/Roar(If you want to keep that little Rest/Rar thing going)
- Avalanche
- Earthquake/Waterfall

Shed Shell>Lefties on Forretress. You don't want to lose him to Magnezone and possibly get raped by Weavile now do you? You have wish support anyways.

Maybe perish song on Celebi since you really have no defense against late game CurseLax who can easily beat this team with proper set up. I suppose you could trick the scarf from rotom though...
 
Ok well this team looks like a pretty good start, just maybe a few tune ups here and there. I would probably run Overheat or something on your Rotom, to actually combat Lucario since after a SD it can wreak some havoc on this team, I suppose you can just WoW it, but you're still losing a nice chunk out of your health, and you're forced to switch out right after thanks to the scarf. If you have tricked your scarf off earlier in the game, than you're seriously fucked. I would honestly consider making your Zapdos run this spread

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Modest
252 HP/176 Speed/80 Sp. Attack or Def.
Heat Wave
Thunder Bolt
Roar/Substitute
Roost

That will give you a decent way to deal with lucario, and it will also give you a phazer/way to avoid status. Probably run Roar since you have a Heal Bell Celebi.

Also I'm noticing that you have a real lack of a switch into Salamence, DD and CB, as well as DD and CB Tars. As another user has said, maybe try a Swampert or hell, even a Hippowdon could fit in the team adding another way to give residual damage throughout the battle.

Well that's really all I noticed on a first look, I'll look over a bit and tell you if I notice anything else.

Edit: You could even run a Vaporeon over Cune so that you have some sort of wish support. It can basically do the same thing as cune, but it will be able to help heal the rest of your team. Just an opinion.

Good Luck with the team!
 
Was SOT awake when he wrote that bit about Wish support? Hello Blissey, anyway I don't know if a Swampert is that nessecary really. To be honest you can probably spread stone Edges around the team, and heal the damage off later. If CB Tar is throwing anything else around you can go to Forry to either Gyro Ball, Rapid Spin, or set up spikes. Although you say you don't mind a scarf on Forry it might we worth leaving that until later in the game and use rotom to start off with, as Forretress may need to come in on outrages from mence and such...

Ice Punch won't do much to Rotom really even after an SD, definately enough to burn and then recieve Wish support later. If it's running Crunch however, Zapdos will deal with it easily, so really I think HeatWave is unnessecary as you will do enough damage with thunderbolt anyway especially after a CC drop. I don't really forsee it being too much of an issue. I think Suicune can probably do for late game curselax and such, its not too big a deal. (I also think Serence Grace is a great Idea on Blissey)

You have proved by your status on the ladder that this team really can go the distance and I feel tinkering with it too much (especially up to the extent of changing a pokemon) will upset the delicate balance that you built it in. (Who would you replace with Swampert? Theres nothing here that can go really.) Nothing clearly stands out as being an issue to me, so I am going to congratulate you on this excellent team, and wish you good luck in using it in the future, and just for reference (all from a CB Tar):

Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Relaxed Forretress: 44-52% (70% chance of 2HKO with SR and Leftovers)
Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Calm Rotom: 87-103%
Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Bold Zapdos: 118-139%
Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Calm Blissey: 84%-99%
Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Bold Suicune: 48-57% (if you go Max / Max you will have a 20% chance of surviving 2 after SR, 80% if forry does his job first. If you manage to take 2 after Sr and then rest, you'll have taken 4 PP off already.)
Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Bold Celebi: 57-63%
 
Just wondering why no Rawr on Suicune? Suicune is one of the best shufflers around, especially since its weakness are covered by the rest of your team.
 
On the bright side, Tyranitar kills like all 8 PP of SE trying to kill off Suicune/Zapdos. HOWEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I think you should give in to the crowd and use Swampert. Also a DDTar weakness here. =[

Not only that, if you put SR onto Swampert, you free up Blissey slot and I'd then add Light Screen seeing as how those offensive Suicunes are very annoying nowadays.
 
i love how "tar weak" is handled effectively by toxic spikes.
the only one "scaring" you is lum ddtaunttar but they lack the potency of LO/CB to mess up suicune. early on ddtars are gyroballed should they dd and at wirst you have suicune to handle it if shit gets bad... but yeah he's the only guy i see hurting your team. rock resist seems like it would benefit the team (everything else is startlingly well covered but i have no idea where to put it. pert over suicune could work great but it opens you up to nape a little more than you might like... then there's leadtar .. oof r__r;


celebi works p perfect with the team helping with gyara (and to a lesser extent tar)

subroost roar zapdos with spikes+tspikes looks like a goddam amazing set.

fire resist+rock resist/dark resist or neutral+nape resist>cune seems like the optimal solution. what about impish resttalk yama? unconventional or PERFECT?????
 
one the best things about suicune is that i can switch it blindly into any salamence set (barring specs draco meteor, which is a 2hko) and usually come out on top. dd lo outrage does ~80%, lo draco meteor does ~65% and i'm usually switching into fire blast anyway. i'm going to do some testing with
swampert but i'm going to miss suicine's greater bulk.

tyranitar really is the biggest threat to this team, and yeah lumddtar gives me nightmares but between forretress and suicune i can stop it. fortunately, in my experience ddtar is uncommon in this metagame (probably because of scizor's prevalence).

blissey is not a factor at all lol. tspikes wear it down, celebi can perish song, i can stall its pp if it decides to sit around, and if i ascertain that it doesn't have flamethrower that's usually a few layers of spikes.
 
blissey "tends" not to be a factor but the fact is ts is your only way of taking it down, or a lucky trick to slow it. these are "kind of shaky" as you really need many layers of pikes to wear it down or 2 layers of ts... give yama a change imo, i'm worried about ape if you go pert =\ all you have vs him is ts, and a hope that they dont assume scarf rotom.
 
Hmm...is Rapid Spin even worth it with Rotom running around? I know this question has been asked loads of times, but is it? I do not think you can waste turns in DP, even with stall teams, if you can help it.

Obviously I haven't played with the team, but if you're finding yourself not getting a lot of chances to spin, or the spin being blocked by Rotom, maybe consider Skarmory - less HP, but Roost, no T-Spikes, but WW, ground resist, a bit more speed to lay spikes, and roughly the same weaknesses/resists.

Just for kicks use Reflect on Rotom; more team support, and can help with rock resist and similar things

Maybe I'm missing something, but maybe EQ would be a better option to hit Tran and Magnezone on the switch.

Also seconding Impish Restalk Hariyama; I think it's perfect for what you need.
 
I think toxic spikes are very handy. I mean opposing Blisseys/Cresselias can be a pain for him. It also really helps stall alot better then just spikes. Zapdos works really niceley stalling when the opponent its toxiced. Also. Go with shed shell instead of Leftovers on Forretress. Late game Gyarados after one dd can really cause you problems especially if you already tricked something with your rotom or it just died. Zapdos wont help if gyarados has stone edge. On top of that just switching in with Zapdos takes 25% of your health away ( Who doesnt use stealth rocks on there team ) Sure Celebi has perish song but that takes three turns to make him switch out. He would have just enough time to really dent your team

Reflect and lightscreen would really solve your problems so your pokemon can have more durability, and haryama sounds great over suicune.

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Defense / 180 Special Defense
Impish nature (+Defense, -Special Attack)
~ Whirlwind
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk.
~ Cross Chop / Force Palm
Force palm actually gives you some para support against sweepers but

cross chop has more power.

I know this is random but this is a really nice lead. maybe you can fit it in your team or not.

Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Attack / 100 Defense / 152 Special Defense
Careful nature (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)
~ Encore
~ Body Slam
~ Ice Punch
~ Waterfall / Aqua jet

The evs always survive a LO Nasty Plotted Grass Knot from Mixape even with SR up and CC will fail to 2hko aswell. Water + Ice + Normal have awesome coverage. This pokemon would solve your nape weakness.. Also helps with pokemon that like to set up. Kingra/Gyarados used dragon dance. Azumaril used encore. Body slam helps para fast strong physical attackers. Aqua jet for priority. Priority is always nice to have on a team.
 
I think the best way to solve your T-tar weakness (Im assuming this is mainly the CB version as i think thats the most common) is to replace foretress with skarmory and give it a few speed evs so it outruns those t-tar that aim to outspeed it normally. Roost will give you a pseudo rock resist and if you faster you will always beat CB tar. It doesnt seem like you will be able to get up all toxic spikes and spikes but I may be wrong, but anyhow toxic spikes isnt as useful as they once were (they're good I know, but they are not necessary).

To solve your CB t-tar weakness:
Skarmory > Foretress (with a few speed evs)

this way you get to keep cune and are not ape weak.
 
Hm... I really dislike Forretress as a lead. Many common leads will simply Taunt you, leaving you useless and giving them a free turn to Stealth Rock up. Alternately, the most common lead (Azelf) will just Fire Blast you and get it over with.
 
Its quite easy to get all spikes and toxic spikes down. You just take your time doing it. Switching forry out and bring him back in when he knows the opponent pokemon cant hit it. Wish support really helps him to be able to set everything down. Rapid spin is always neccesarry and I dont think any of his pokemon want toxic spikes on them. You only get 8 heal bells.

Skarmory would help the ttar weakness but im against not having toxic spikes. Just remember some ttars carry fire blast or fire punch.

Forry is a ok lead. I mean against steel types that is such as metagross/brongzong, etc... to be able to set some stuff up.

The azumaril might be interesting to try but it cant set up spikes or anything. Or you could try it without it being a lead...
 
skarm over forry is a nono due to the importance of tspikes/spinning to this team. they provide "offense" against annoying stuff like bulky waters/grounds/celebi as well has hitting sweepers like ttar/nape. I'd advice cross chop on the hariyama set, although paralysis hitting something like zapdos or gyara could help.
experiment!
 
Yeah. You really do need the spikes/toxic spikes to actually stall, and break walls. so keep forry. Meh. Force palm I think is the neccessary option because there will be so many gyarados coming in on the fighting moves. If you get lucky with para with force palm on the gyara switch in then they have a worthless gyara ^_^ Having para support is really helpful on defensive teams. Also. Cross chop can miss and you wouldnt want that to happen in a critical situation, but meh. Crossh chop might work. Nothing else is really wrong besides nape ( kind of hard not to be nape weak ) and ttar. Great team and cant wait to see what you think of to fix the problem.
 
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