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Other Freed Ubers
- Thread starter Talpr0ne
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Well its bolt-beam may have been nerfed slightly but yeah it is not as if that many things were capable of walling it. Especially if it received a +1 SpA boost, which it does with frequency, people aren't as prepared for it as well in tweaking their EVs in addition to the bias towards defending against physical attacks this gen only makes receiving much easier.
As stated above, that exactly why I run Specail pokemons, like Aegislash, I put the last 4 on SpD so Genesect would get x1 Atk and he wouldn't 2HKO me with Flamethrower :3, Same with Rotom-W, Yes it means U-turn will hit harder, but that way T-Bolt won't hard and I could always will-o-wisp or Volt Switch whoever Genesect switches into.
Genesect is actually insane at the moment, dealing with it without a Heatran on your team is extremely difficult and even with a Heatran, you're giving up all your momentum regardless. Also, I'm actually surprised Manaphy is being used as little as it is. The Tail Glow set is still monstrous.
I really think the potential of Manaphy and Genesect, along with a lot of the other freed ubers, is that they can break down or whittle down a lot of what stops other Pokemon from sweeping. Genesect excels at wearing down teams with U-Turn, Manaphy can 2HKO 252/0 Ferrothorn with a +3 Ice Beam, Tornadus-T stallbreaks with Hurricane + Superpower, Excadrill can smash Rotom with Mold Breaker EQ, so on and so forth. A lot of the Pokemon that fare badly against these freed ubers are the Pokemon that can stop standard OU sweepers in their tracks. Of course, given the opportunity, just about every single one of these freed ubers have to potential to sweep by themselves, but the potential they have for dismantling teams—not all the way, but enough that a Dragonite or Mega Pinsir or SD Scizor or some other great late-game sweeper is guaranteed to mop up the stage—cannot be discounted nor ignored.
I also feel that a lot of these more offensive freed ubers also actually work well with bulky offense, despite their Hyper Offensive nature. Genesect, Landorus, and Tornadus-T, for example, are great momentum-getters and revenge killers if necessary. Bulky offense mons LOVE momentum-getters because they can either set up or hit switch-ins with extremely powerful attacks (such as Bulky DD Gyarados or Offensive Celebi, respectively). Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D make for great all-around utilities—freeing up more space for an offensive/defensive core. And, of course, Manaphy can run a bulky boosting set to contribute to the team effort. Basically, though, a lot of these freed ubers have the potential to minimize the number of non-bulky offense Pokemon a bulky offense team needs to succeed, thus creating more team slots for bulky offense mons that can capitalize on the utility that these freed ubers offer.
I also feel that a lot of these more offensive freed ubers also actually work well with bulky offense, despite their Hyper Offensive nature. Genesect, Landorus, and Tornadus-T, for example, are great momentum-getters and revenge killers if necessary. Bulky offense mons LOVE momentum-getters because they can either set up or hit switch-ins with extremely powerful attacks (such as Bulky DD Gyarados or Offensive Celebi, respectively). Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D make for great all-around utilities—freeing up more space for an offensive/defensive core. And, of course, Manaphy can run a bulky boosting set to contribute to the team effort. Basically, though, a lot of these freed ubers have the potential to minimize the number of non-bulky offense Pokemon a bulky offense team needs to succeed, thus creating more team slots for bulky offense mons that can capitalize on the utility that these freed ubers offer.
I've been trying out Manaphy without Rain support. It does work pretty well - you can't do crazy stuff like 2HKO Blissey anymore, but it does still OHKO most bulky opponents with +3 Surf/Energy Ball/Ice Beam. The bigger problem I run into actually has nothing to do with the weather nerf, it's the fact that 100/100/100 isn't nearly as bulky as it was 2 generations ago. Water is a good type for switching in (thanks Talonflame!), but most attackers it switches in on will have an Electric/Grass coverage move or a second STAB they can use. As a result, Manaphy is almost always getting hit for neutral damage at best, leaving it very vulnerable to being revenge killed. It did get one tiny buff in that regard, though, which is that its Steel resistance actually matters since people are carrying Steel moves to beat Fairies.
That all being said, it's still almost impossible to not lose at least one Poke to Manaphy while you try to take it down, just because that +3 is so easy to set up.
That all being said, it's still almost impossible to not lose at least one Poke to Manaphy while you try to take it down, just because that +3 is so easy to set up.
(Manaphy) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 180 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
- Tail Glow
This seems to be a good spread for Manaphy.
Max Special Attack for the for the most offensive potential. The nature and speed EVs are to outrun Jolly base 90s, so you can hit Mega Lucario if it attempts to use you as set-up bait, and 4 SDef Evs so Genesect doesn't get pseudo-STAB on the Thunderbolt. The rest go into HP.
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 180 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
- Tail Glow
This seems to be a good spread for Manaphy.
Max Special Attack for the for the most offensive potential. The nature and speed EVs are to outrun Jolly base 90s, so you can hit Mega Lucario if it attempts to use you as set-up bait, and 4 SDef Evs so Genesect doesn't get pseudo-STAB on the Thunderbolt. The rest go into HP.
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Honestly I was underwhelmed when I started using Genesect. I expected him to wreck shit like he did last gen. Instead, he's just a very good mon, who basically outclasses Scizor as an offensive bug/steel (Scizor still has defog/pursuit/knock off sets though) and fits on virtually any team. I used a shift gear set for a bit and it's cool, but with all the physically defensive Rotoms, Heatrans and priority moves running around it's hard to sweep with. Special attacking sets with u-turn seem to be the way to go, with choice scarf being the preferred item (altho ebelt and life orb are plenty viable).
Excadrill is another staple and I'm glad he's in OU. The ban last gen really deprived OU of a great spinner. Similar to Genesect, he's not gonna sweep teams, but he plays his role perfectly.
Manaphy is really good too. I don't think he will become a staple, but he's def something you have to prepare for when you build teams. He sets up really easily and hits hard. Bring him out at the right time and he's gonna take something out. Unfortunately, he's too slow to sweep, and you obviously can't run scarf or you can't tail glow.
Landorus is pretty good, not as good as the first 3 but worth consideration. He still hits stupidly hard, but there's more out there that can check him. Mandibuzz, Goodra, the blobs (who are more common now), plus the tons of faster threats and anything with strong priority like Talonflame or Azumarill will take a huge chunk from him if not outright KO him. If you need a glass cannon special attacker who's not named Genesect, Landorus is worth a shot.
Deoxys-D is great for both stall teams and offensive teams. For offense, you can easily get up rocks, status something, and if you're still alive use him as a pivot later in the game. For defensive teams, you can use him as a fast taunt with toxic and/or hazards. Those are his roles and he performs them pretty well. He's no Excadrill, but I could see him hanging around OU.
Deoxys-S is pretty meh. Support sets are really weak right now with all the defog going around. Life orb attacking sets are the saving grace, but he's still really weak to priority. I doubt this guy sees much use in OU.
Thundurus-I can still paralyze stuff. With all the priority though, it's not that great. Even the sweepers who you would really want to revenge paralyze like M-Kanga and M-Lucario have priority, so in order to paralyze them you would have to sacrifice Thundy and take a strong priority hit with your next poke (unless you get really lucky with the full paralysis). He's still a fast electric type, but if you want a pure sweeper Thundy-T hits harder, while Zapdos has better defenses. Won't see too much use in OU imo.
Tornadus-T is a mon I always liked a lot, but with that 70% accuracy on hurricane he's just not worth using unless you have a dedicated rain team. Unfortunate for a poke who was a monster last gen.
Excadrill is another staple and I'm glad he's in OU. The ban last gen really deprived OU of a great spinner. Similar to Genesect, he's not gonna sweep teams, but he plays his role perfectly.
Manaphy is really good too. I don't think he will become a staple, but he's def something you have to prepare for when you build teams. He sets up really easily and hits hard. Bring him out at the right time and he's gonna take something out. Unfortunately, he's too slow to sweep, and you obviously can't run scarf or you can't tail glow.
Landorus is pretty good, not as good as the first 3 but worth consideration. He still hits stupidly hard, but there's more out there that can check him. Mandibuzz, Goodra, the blobs (who are more common now), plus the tons of faster threats and anything with strong priority like Talonflame or Azumarill will take a huge chunk from him if not outright KO him. If you need a glass cannon special attacker who's not named Genesect, Landorus is worth a shot.
Deoxys-D is great for both stall teams and offensive teams. For offense, you can easily get up rocks, status something, and if you're still alive use him as a pivot later in the game. For defensive teams, you can use him as a fast taunt with toxic and/or hazards. Those are his roles and he performs them pretty well. He's no Excadrill, but I could see him hanging around OU.
Deoxys-S is pretty meh. Support sets are really weak right now with all the defog going around. Life orb attacking sets are the saving grace, but he's still really weak to priority. I doubt this guy sees much use in OU.
Thundurus-I can still paralyze stuff. With all the priority though, it's not that great. Even the sweepers who you would really want to revenge paralyze like M-Kanga and M-Lucario have priority, so in order to paralyze them you would have to sacrifice Thundy and take a strong priority hit with your next poke (unless you get really lucky with the full paralysis). He's still a fast electric type, but if you want a pure sweeper Thundy-T hits harder, while Zapdos has better defenses. Won't see too much use in OU imo.
Tornadus-T is a mon I always liked a lot, but with that 70% accuracy on hurricane he's just not worth using unless you have a dedicated rain team. Unfortunate for a poke who was a monster last gen.
I dont know what youre talking about but tornadus-t can work just fine outside of rain. 70% accuracy is not that bad, specially when youre dealing with something with regenerator. It still works just like last gen. Come in, hit something, switch out once a check comes in and regain all the health lost by life orb. Theres also the assault vest set that makes it even harder to kill and a greater check to specially offensive threats. Thundurus completely outclasses thundurus-t, its not even funny. The only thing thundurus-t can do better is an agility set and i dont even know if that thing is going to work in a more bulky metagame. Being able to paralyze nearly any revenge killer (and possibly getting away if it gets full para) is what makes it insane. 125 sp atk+nasty plot is still great and so is that 111 speed coupled with excellent coverage. Defintely dont underestimate it.
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Do we know if Aeroblast has changed at all? Rev up that Scope Lens Aeroblast Tornadus-T, there are crits that need hitting...50% of the time.
It is a big assumption that this isn't just a result of cheating NPCs, but if this and SF Entei are both true, it's open to speculation what moves the other trio members could get.We know by now (again, I assume) that the first gen trio haven't learned anything notable, and there's not a single move that I could think of that would redeem the regis, but who knows.
Regarding Tornadus-T specifically, it's building up to be quite a threat this gen when it's released. No need to rely on rain for it to hit its stab means that it can safely used Heat Wave on every set. Not only that, but it can also make good use of the buffed Knock Off (rip Jirachi). When you then consider that it's even easier this gen to get rocks off the field, things look even better.
Most of the freed Ubers are making quite an impact in the OU metagame except for Tornadus-T.So I gave him a shot.
I thought that with rain gone,Tornadus-T will get kicked back to UU but I have been testing him out lately and he has been giving me amazing results.Everyone tells me about how he NEEDS hurricane to stay OU worthy so I gave the old Life Orb set a try.Turns out.........IT SUCKS.70% accuracy is too terrible in my opinion.It freaking NEVER hits.So I was about to quit on this thing until I found the Assault Vest set.This thing works so well I now have him in most of my offensive and balanced teams.
I thought that with rain gone,Tornadus-T will get kicked back to UU but I have been testing him out lately and he has been giving me amazing results.Everyone tells me about how he NEEDS hurricane to stay OU worthy so I gave the old Life Orb set a try.Turns out.........IT SUCKS.70% accuracy is too terrible in my opinion.It freaking NEVER hits.So I was about to quit on this thing until I found the Assault Vest set.This thing works so well I now have him in most of my offensive and balanced teams.
Tornadus-T is still decent, uturn regenerator is just nice since you don't take spikes damage anyways and rocks won't wear you down quickly. I've been running the old specs Hurricane set with a Politoed, it still hits like a truck, the only problem is to keep the rain up, but if you get it up and manage to switch Torn in safely it just opens huge holes into teams. I don't know how confirmed Aeroblast is, but it would really make it a great addition to Voltturn heavy teams because of regenerator, high speed and one of the best Stab moves it could wish for. Tornadus doesn't necessarily need rain, but it loses alot of its former "click hurricane -> win" condition.
I just don't like the idea of your main nuke being 70% accurate. That means 3 out of every 10 turns he's using his main stab your opponent gets a free turn. If it's just a coverage move, like Gengar using focus blast for Tyranitar, that's acceptable to me because if you weren't using that move you would die to pursuit, so it's worth the risk of a miss.
Obviously if Torn T gets aeroblast, that's a different story, and he will be very useful. Until then, I only see him being used on rain teams.
Obviously if Torn T gets aeroblast, that's a different story, and he will be very useful. Until then, I only see him being used on rain teams.
I have to build teams around deo now. YOu can taunt anyone foolish enough to try and defog on deo, but the rest of the team has to be able to defeat common defoggers. Kyube beats the hell out of mandibuzz, though careful double switching is required, taunt stacking in general helps, but latios/latias is the biggest problem to deo-s hazard stacking. Sure, you can build a team that cleanly OHKOs lati if it gets to attack, but at 110 base speed, it can defog in a pinch without thinking.
Defog latios, with talonflame beat up on deo-s + 5 HO. With rocks up, hyper offense relegates talonflame to one revenge kill, hell, mega lucario's e-speed can kill talonflame after rocks. Without rocks you're in for trouble.
Out of curiosity, why the hell are you running HP Ice IVs?
Oh yeah, just like how I figured out that KLINKLANG got Focus Blast through the Battle Factory. It could be true, it could not. On one hand, if it's true, I see some decent use. On the other hand, it could not be true since the Battle Frontier/Subway/Maison is filled with cheaters.
I don't know know why... I think I just used another Pokemon with HP Ice and switching Manaphy is kept those IVs.
Genesect is a top 5 mon in ou, and the key to the shift gear set is to go mixed. Not much (besides fire types) can handle shift gear, iron head, flamethrower, and giga drain. You may think that you need to use the attack boost, and special attacks are stupid, but rp sect didn't get any spatk boosts, so it's basically an rp sect that wrecks every special wall besides heatran. Every set is so good though, and it can basically choose to ok anything in the game, even heatran probably dies to a plus 1 explosion. Honestly it's hard to mAke a team with out it.
Manaphy will definitely become a staple, it has awesome bulk and coverage, and while it can't get through special walls and has a near useless ability, it shits on bulky offense, as everything that isn't faster or a special wall is destroyed at plus 3, which it gets to so eAsily.
Idk what you are talking about for deo s, the life orbs set is the best revenge killer In the tier and a late game sweeper, even better than genesect (who it outspeeds). Also, while hazards aren't quite as good, they are still very useful, and deo s is still an amZing lead for hyper offense, and will likely get banned.
This is just me, but I've been disappointed in excadrill, everything hits it super effectively and it's too damn slow, but everyone else seems to like it.
Thundurus is amazing, idk what you are talking about. Twave three attack with lefties is such good support for offensive teams, and it also packs such a nice punch. S rank easily.
Torn t (unless it gets aeroblast) is barely usable on the ladder, and I have tried. Air slash is weak, and hurricane is wayyyy to inaccurate to use as it's main move on the ladder. Dissapointing, and even the acrobatics set is unusable now.
what genesect set should i be using? currently i have
Scizor2013 (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
Scizor2013 (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
I ran that set with espeed over giga drain for Talonflame. Giga drain is nice for waters I guess but in order for it to out damage espeed after a shift gear you need to have gotten a special attack boost, which isn't ideal for sweeping, plus it leaves you open to being revenge killed by priority. I think pure physical with blaze kick over flamethrower is better if you know which mons you can come out on to boost your attack.
I play both stall and hyper offense and I've literally never had trouble with these two. Maybe they hit certain types of teams hard but I can't imagine them ever being banned if Gensect stays around.
Assault Vest Conkeldurr could threaten to knock off its Scarf (or items on their other Pokemon), or you could just paralyze it was a specially defensive Klefki since it has prankster and this does not require prediction on a switch in.
Personally, I'm finding defensive M-Venusaur to be a pretty good counter to Genesect. Assuming Genesect receives a +1 SpAtk boost from some other Pokemon, M-Venusaur still only takes about 25% from it and can Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, or even HP Fire it. All of this, of course, is thanks to thick fat, which makes it neutral to fire and ice. A +1 U-Turn will hurt though. I run a pure stall team with Heatran and M-Venusaur so I've never had any problems with Genesect, but I also think that's because most people run Scarf, which is horribly predictable. I find Shift Gear a bit underwhelming because Genesect's physical movepool lends it little coverage; that being said, Rock Polish is -- as it was last gen -- an amazing late-game sweeper, especially if you've bluffed a Choice Scarf.
+1 252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 75-88 (20.6 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 111-132 (30.4 - 36.2%) -- 50.5% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 75-88 (20.6 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 111-132 (30.4 - 36.2%) -- 50.5% chance to 3HKO
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