Friends

Friends, we all know what they are. The dictionary defines them as so:

"a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard."

So a friend is a person who likes you for who you are. My question comes in for defending them. When you have a different standpoint than them on an issue, and your standpoint is shared by many and your friend is talked down upon or made fun of, does this mean you should defend your friend?

Example:

Friend: I think that 92% of teens have moved on to rap music and only 8% still listen to real music.

Person: I think that is an outlandish claim. The music industry sells only so much rap music and they sell other music of varying amounts.

Me: I agree with "Person" in that there is no way that 92% of teens have "moved onto" rap.

Friend 2: Rap probably goes up because of Pirating, Youtube, etc.

Me: The same could be said for other music, that people pirate other genres or watch other genres on Youtube.

Friend 2: What a douche you are, not defending your friend.



Now, that was a rather odd example but I think I got across what I was trying to say. Are you a jerk for not defending your friend for outlandish claims/ different beliefs? If I suppose that Obama is a great president, along with 50 other people, and my friend believes that Obama is a bad president, does that mean I should defend him? Even though I have nothing to help him win an argument and could disprove all his points, should I try and help him? Would I be a jerk not to?

Thoughts? This is an issue I'm at odds with. Would losing a friend over something like this really mean they were your friend at all? Please help.
 
If we had to 'defend' our friends in such debates, the world would be a boring place.

The fact is, debates, including those we find during everyday chat, are an exchange of information and opinion. Everybody has his own opinion on stuff, therefore defending someone's else opinion with which we don't agree is just downright stupid :/
 
stand up for whatever you believe you should stand up for (i.e. what you believe in). if your friends are worth having around, it won't change their opinion of you.
 

tennisace

getting too old for this
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Standing up for your friend in an ideological debate is pointless if its a respectful debate, they should be able to hold their own if they got into it in the first place. However, feel free to jump in if things start getting personal, ex: "you're a fucking moron for believing that". Its like the saying "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it".
 
Standing up for your friend in an ideological debate is pointless if its a respectful debate, they should be able to hold their own if they got into it in the first place. However, feel free to jump in if things start getting personal, ex: "you're a fucking moron for believing that". Its like the saying "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it".
I'm sorry, but I found this the best reply so far. Can you expand further on this? I don't think I quite understand exactly what you were trying to get across.
 

AJers

Your typical e-wench
My friends and I ENJOY having healthy debates fairly regularly; sometimes we will even play devils advocate just to provoke a debate. That being said, my friends and I are generally open-minded about most subjects; just because you don't agree with us or have somewhat different ideals (for most subjects of discussion) doesn't mean our friendship is going to end anytime soon. In fact, it can even strengthen your friendship to a certain degree.

As for defending you friends:
1. Should you defend them from someone insulting them/trying to beat them up? Of course, absolutely. Hopefully, they can handle themselves, but if they can't then feel free to step in and take a little heat off them. I can definitely see a friendship ending if a "friend" doesn't step in to help them out in this situation. It depends on the people involved, though.
2. Should you defend your friend's ideals against someone who doesn't agree with them? I wouldn't. If they can't defend their own stance on an issue they decide to get in a debate about, then they shouldn't let themselves be drawn into the debate. As a friend, the most they should expect you to do is possibly to play devils advocate for them (or just outright debate with them yourself), and call them out on inaccuracies, make them think their position through, etc.... That way when they get in an actual debate with someone who will not hesitate to slaughter them they'll be somewhat more prepared on the actual subject?

I can't honestly say I'm friends with anyone who wouldn't be able to defend their stance on issues they feel strongly about, and, as such, I have no problems with joining in a lively debate with them. Thus far, it hasn't ended any friendships.

As for whether or not your stance on something is going to weaken the bonds of friendship... it's absolutely possible. I can be open-minded about things (for the most part), but if my friend knew I was against something and was always bringing it up, or throwing their position in my face all the time (I'm super argumentative when I want to be), so that all our friendship revolved around was the debate, then yeah. It would probably weaken the friendship significantly enough that we would no longer hang out.
 

tennisace

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Sure. It's fine to disagree with your friends on an issue, and even argue with them a bit. However, you should stand up for your friends if the debate turns into a big shouting match, with insults being thrown at them for their views. Differences are fine to have, and make relationships more interesting. However personal attacks are NEVER fine, and you should stand up for a friend if that happens in a "debate".

Edit: AJers beat me and explained my view quite well.
 
Just because a friend is a friend means you owe him or her your allegiance in any argument or debate. Half the fun in a friendship is telling people they're wrong, or else they telling you that you're wrong.

If you lose a friend because you disagree over something rather trivial like that, that friend is probably a bitch and you'd be better off without.
 
My friends and I ENJOY having healthy debates fairly regularly; sometimes we will even play devils advocate just to provoke a debate. That being said, my friends and I are generally open-minded about most subjects; just because you don't agree with us or have somewhat different ideals (for most subjects of discussion) doesn't mean our friendship is going to end anytime soon. In fact, it can even strengthen your friendship to a certain degree.

As for defending you friends:
1. Should you defend them from someone insulting them/trying to beat them up? Of course, absolutely. Hopefully, they can handle themselves, but if they can't then feel free to step in and take a little heat off them. I can definitely see a friendship ending if a "friend" doesn't step in to help them out in this situation. It depends on the people involved, though.
2. Should you defend your friend's ideals against someone who doesn't agree with them? I wouldn't. If they can't defend their own stance on an issue they decide to get in a debate about, then they shouldn't let themselves be drawn into the debate. As a friend, the most they should expect you to do is possibly to play devils advocate for them (or just outright debate with them yourself), and call them out on inaccuracies, make them think their position through, etc.... That way when they get in an actual debate with someone who will not hesitate to slaughter them they'll be somewhat more prepared on the actual subject?

I can't honestly say I'm friends with anyone who wouldn't be able to defend their stance on issues they feel strongly about, and, as such, I have no problems with joining in a lively debate with them. Thus far, it hasn't ended any friendships.

As for whether or not your stance on something is going to weaken the bonds of friendship... it's absolutely possible. I can be open-minded about things (for the most part), but if my friend knew I was against something and was always bringing it up, or throwing their position in my face all the time (I'm super argumentative when I want to be), so that all our friendship revolved around was the debate, then yeah. It would probably weaken the friendship significantly enough that we would no longer hang out.
Sure. It's fine to disagree with your friends on an issue, and even argue with them a bit. However, you should stand up for your friends if the debate turns into a big shouting match, with insults being thrown at them for their views. Differences are fine to have, and make relationships more interesting. However personal attacks are NEVER fine, and you should stand up for a friend if that happens in a "debate".

Edit: AJers beat me and explained my view quite well.
These two views basically did it for me. Thank the both of you for expanding on this and showing me a good explanation. I think I have basically locked down my thoughts on this. Feel free to close this, and thank you all for the replies.
 
It really depends on the relationship with that particular friend. I disagree with my friends all the time, sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong, but most of my friends are pretty down to earth and we shrug it off.

With the ones who can't accept being contradicted, I do act a bit more careful, but they are still my friends.
 
When you get out of highschool friends don't usually act like this. Mine stopped being arrogant douches who demand to be backed up in an irrelevant debate. Friends who constantly call your 'loyalty' into question need to be told to get fucked. You're their friend because you enjoy hanging out with them, not their protector.
 
I really thought this was about the sitcom, and now I am incredibly disappointed.

As for this situation you bring to light, it's merely adolescent bullshitting. Like abuse said, if someone is upset when you hold differing viewpoints and claims to be your friend, he/she is simply manipulative and probably not worth it.

I defend my friends to the point at which I agree with them. Beyond that, they're really on their own. It actually makes for a better friendship because both people learn to be independent in thought.
 

DM

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My fraternity had a Latin phrase that was basically what the brotherhood was founded on: "amici usque ad aras." It meant "brothers unto the altar," basically that until you do something truly reprehensible, I will stand by you. If a friend is willing to turn his back on you for something as simple as disagreeing with him, chances are he's a very fickle person and the friendship bond you shared wasn't that strong to begin with.

That being said, sometimes you truly should defend a friend, regardless of if you agree with him or not. You have to take into consideration what the subject matter is and how important it is to him. If something ranks as a 1 to you on the importance scale, you know, something you really couldn't care less about, but ranks as a 10 to him and you're aware of that, you'd be an idiot to callously brush his opinion aside. This is obviously also true in relationships, and I imagine situations like this lead to a lot of breakups.
 
As for defending you friends:
1. Should you defend them from someone insulting them/trying to beat them up? Of course, absolutely. Hopefully, they can handle themselves, but if they can't then feel free to step in and take a little heat off them. I can definitely see a friendship ending if a "friend" doesn't step in to help them out in this situation. It depends on the people involved, though.

I wouldn't really. Unless i had a friend that doesn't know how to back up his own shit, such as. Words, Comment w/e started the argument and if he's really "MY FRIEND", Because i don't take people i just know my "friends" than yeah i would jump in and see wazup!.

Another way i would defend one of my friends is if, They got into some problem with some random guy, and that guy wants to get my friend jumped. Than im really gonna gonna be there for him. Even though my real friends know how to fight, But shit ain't gonna hit the fan, because some guy wants to get my friend jumped.


1. What if your friend had a girlfriend, your best friend!. And she did your friend dirty, and your friend is like ALL stressing about it, sad as hell. And he's trying so hard to get her back. But the chick is just tripping balls over some other guy she met, and she rushed shit with the other guy without knowing him. Would you as a "FRIEND", hit that girl up and tell her, how your best friend feels?! how fucked shes looking by doing some dumb ass shit like that?! Or you just wouldn't get between them at all?!
 

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