FRLG in-game tier list

[EvilMario]

After replaying Fire Red right now, I really have to say moving Lapras up to at least Medium Tier is a must.

STAB Ice Beam (learned naturally) and Surf is fantastic. Thunder/Thunderbolt/Shock Wave TM rounds out the attacking points of the moveset, and Lapras is in prime position to quickly catch up in levels at this point in the game. Thanks to her general bulkiness, Body Slam even crushes a lot of the Psychic Gym's physical inept Pokemon, while they can do next to nothing damage wise.

You'll be fighting a lot of water Pokemon when you begin Surfing outside of battle for the first time, and Lapras also takes apart the last two (Fire, Ground) gyms. It's more, or less a bulkier Starimie that naturally has access to Ice Beam.

My two cents.

 

[Amelia]

I tried Solo-ing LG with Butterfree, and goodness, it's ridiculously strong.

When you catch it, getting it up to Level 10 is yeah, horrible, but when you do, Confusion sweeps all the Rattatas/ Pidgeys/ Weedles/ Caterpies/ Metapods/ Kakunas, allowing it to level up until it gets Sleep Powder. With Sleep Powder, it destroys everything except those weak towards Psychic.
There is 0 Dark Pokemons before you get the National Dex, which is a huge +. Compoundeye Sleep Powder hardly misses, which simply makes it the best sleep move there is apart from Parasect until you get the National Dex. When it gets Gust, all those Psychics won't be able to do anything either.

There are so many Zubats, Machops, Koffings, Grimers, Nidoran (F/M), and other things weak to Psychic, it's ridiculous. All you have to do is to sleep them, and batter them with Confusion or Psybeam. If you really need to, give it the Psychic TM as well. And it gets a good Bug Move in Silver Wind.

Brock: Confusion hurts all of them badly. There is a huge risk of Rock Tomb, however.

Misty: Sleep Powder, Confusion. Might need a bit of help against the Starmie.

Surge: Sleep Powder, Confusion. Magnemites from the Trainers are slightly troublesome.

Erika: Sleep Powder, Safeguard (if you have it) Confusion. Laugh as almost all Grass Pokemons are part Poison as well, apart from her Tangela.

Koga: Sleep Powder, Safeguard, Confusion/Psywave.

Blaine: Sleep Powder, hope they don't wake up in time, as you batter them with Psywaves.

Sabrina: Sleep Powder, Gust if you don't have Silver Wind, Silver Wind if you do. If you get a single stat-up against Sabrina, you can probably sweep with Gust or Psywave/Psychic.

Giovanni: Sleep Powder, Psywave/Psychic. Most of the times, he'll use Earthquake, and they'll miss.

Lorelei: Sleep Powder, Psywave/Psychic Lapras/Cloyster/Dewgone, Silver Wind Slowbro/Jynx.

Bruno: Sleep Powder, Psywave/Psychic.

Agatha: Psychic/Psywave.

Lance: Sleep Powder, Psywave/Psychic

Rival: Sleep Powder, Psywave/Psychic Pidgeot/Rhydon/Arcanine/Gyarados / Starter, Silver Wind Alakazam/Exeggutor.

-----------------------------------------------------------

For the rematch. (I'll only talk about the new Pokemons that you have to fight)

Lorelei: Sleep Powder the Piloswine, Psywave/Psychic it.
Bruno: Steelix is a huge problem.
Agatha: Silver Wind the Misdreavus, Psywave/Psychic the Crobat.
Lance: Sleep Powder... Psychic Dragonite/Kingra to death.

Rival: Psywave/Psychic Heracross, Silver Wind Tyranitar.

Think that's it. It doesn't sound that easy, but the addition of Sleep Powder makes the whole game easier.

 

[Cynthia]

Would it be good to have a list of the hardest gym leaders in order to pirioritze who is needed to complete the game? Some bosses are obviously more dangerous than others.

IE

2.Sabrina- No Dark types in RBY, and you'll have to raise a Haunter/Gengar(requires trade) to a pretty high level in order to outspeed Kadabra/Mime/Zam who can hit you supereffective anyway. Zam especially deals high damage to anything not a special wall. Also she might CM up if you don't deal damage quickly enough, though the AI isn't the smartest with this.

1.Misty- Starmie's high base stat total is the real issue here. She'll outspeed nearly anything you can throw at her and hit back hard with Water Pulse, possibly confusing in the process. You do have grass types available nearby, but you'll have to grind them a few levels before you can win.

3. Koga- 3rd gen gave him a bit of a boost, now that Korffing and Weezing have levitate they can be hard to take down. Pretty beatable, but he will lose Explosion/Selfdestruct to deny you EXP.

4.Brock- Instant win with Squirtle or Bulbasaur. Charmander users have to level grind to ~lvl 16 or so or raise a Mankey. Mostly difficult due to lack of resources.

5.Giovanni- Pretty easy to sweep with a water or grass type, but he does have some type variety and offensive potential.

6.Blaine- Decent pokemon, but really you should have a water or rock type by the time you get there, and he can't really stop you.

7.Erika- Even if you chose Squirtle you can catch Grow/Vul nearby or if you got Pidgey/Spearow earlier on. Status is annoying but curable, and she doesn't have anything fast anyway.

8. Surge- Diglett can do a pretty good job on everything he has, Geodude does even better due to Quick attack resist. Double team is annoying but if he can't touch you anyway it's irrelevant.

Feel free to change, just no "lolz they all fail!" posts please.

 

[ABC-Trainer]

brock is easy to beat with charmander, just use a pikachu to tail whip the onix and then i think lvl 12 charmander knows metal claw

 

[Cynthia]

Even with the Super-effective damage from Metal Claw, you're almost better off going with Ember due to STAB and using the low sp.def of Geodude/Onix rather than their high base def.

Really though, I will admit that the list is somewhat random after Sabrina and Misty.

 

[Foxfish]

Koga was one of the hardest to me. The Muk will keep spamming Minimize if you don't kill it in one shot and Weezing will almost always Explode, denying you exp.

 

[Mekkah]

4.Brock- Instant win with Squirtle or Bulbasaur. Charmander users have to level grind to ~lvl 16 or so or raise a Mankey. Mostly difficult due to lack of resources.

If Charmander rapes the hell out of Viridian Forest like he should, he is the required level with ease. Of course if you're using Rattata or Pidgey he won't be. But for all the same you're using Butterfree or Mankey and he's a breeze.

Misty > Sabrina imo. All but Alakazam are retarded and you have so much better level grinding potential with two roads to Fushia full of trainer EXP as well as Silph Co, so that alone helps for Misty. Alakazam is relatively less threatening than Starmie, mostly due to being super frail.

 

[Khail]

Hmm... I'd say if you really want a Pokemon specifically to annihilate Sabrina, you could always make use of Blissey's fat-ass third cousin Snorlax.

Think about it. He is a special wall, you can catch him at level 30, and he learns a lot of moves by level up that can really piss off Sabrina and the rest of her gym: Amnesia (can't remember where the move reminder person is in FR/LG, so this might not be an option), Rest, Yawn, Body Slam, and Headbutt (flinch hax after Body Slam, of course).

Let's not forget that Mr. Snorlax also learns Shadow Ball via TM and puts it to great use with that awesome attack power of his, but be prepared to pay out the ass for it or get really lucky at slots, 'cause it's 4,500 coins at the game corner (90,000 bucks if you buy all the coins), though if you're desperate, you can't ever really screw yourself out of money in these games thanks to the Vs. Seeker.

Koga should fall easily to Kadabra and/or Alakazam, and if you're truly worried about Explosion and Toxic...just remember that he can't touch Haunter/Gengar. And they learn PSYCHIC, too. Hmm... :naughty:

Blaine is a joke for Starmie who can be caught after you obtain the good rod, if I recall correctly. If not Starmie, I'm sure any run-of-the-mill, overleveled water (Bastoise), ground (Dugtrio, Marowak), or rock (Graveler/Golem, Rhydon) will do the trick. Same thing for Giovanni considering all of his Pokemon are very vulnerable to Surf and Earthquake save for Dugtrio, who is not part poison or rock and therefore not weak to ground...though Dugtrio isn't exactly known for its defenses by any stretch of the imagination.

Just some food for thought. :)

 

[Cynthia]

Fine I suppose there are some farily easy to obtain Sabrina counters ingame, switched spots of Misty and Sabrina.

And to the above poster, useful ways to counter the various leaders, though I won't change the list unless I'm somehow convinced of the difficulty of Erika/Surge. Be aware that it is relative difficulty, I'm sure most players can clear the game quite easily.

 

[ABC-Trainer]

Even with the Super-effective damage from Metal Claw, you're almost better off going with Ember due to STAB and using the low sp.def of Geodude/Onix rather than their high base def.

Really though, I will admit that the list is somewhat random after Sabrina and Misty.

no, as I just said, if you have a pikachu which is relatively easy to catch and train it up a few levels onix will not be able to hurt it faster than you can heal, so you can tail whip a few times and metal claw will 2hko. it's a much safer alternative to randomly embering which will take a long time and chances are you will die b/c you run out of potions.

 

[Khail]

@-Cynthia-

I understand. Just thought I'd throw it out there since no one else had. :)

Sandslash, Dugtrio, and Graveler make Surge a joke. Unless you're some sort of purist who refuses to use ground types, as far as I can remember, he shouldn't be giving anyone trouble.

Erika is pretty weak, too. Pidgeotto, Fearow, Charmeleon/Charizard, Growlithe, Vulpix, Haunter/Gengar, Kadabra/Alakazam, Butterfree all give her a rough time... Heck, if you overlevel your Wartortle into Blastoise and toss it an Ice Beam, he could probably solo the entire gym with just that one move.

Sorry...I should probably contribute to the actual topic of the thread rather than the current discussion at hand (gym leader counters), but most of the Pokemon I've mentioned are very easy to obtain and most all of them more than hold their own throughout the entireity of the game even past the specified bosses. I think I'll review the in-game tier list when I get home and add my two cents to that, as well. :)

 

[Urza]

posting props for ratatta. i'm going through lg again (squirtle this time) and without much grinding at all, he 2hko'ed brock's geodude after a tail whip with hyper fang. i didn't get the flinch, got hit for not much damage and took him out. little fucker's got bite.

 

[Helios]

IMO, surge is harder than eirika; the following pokemon make Surge a cakewalk;
Geodude, Diglett, Sandshrew, Bellsprout/ Oddish, Nidoking/Nidoqueen (if you evolved them) and Bulbasaur (to an extent on the last 2/3)
All of them are pretty good/common, HOWEVER, Eirika is taken down by these pokemon;
Vulpix/Growlith, Charmander, Spearow, Pidgey, Kadabra, Drowzee (weee, insomnia FTW), Butterfree, Beedrill (double resist), Zubat and DUX (lol)

Also consider what happens if you don't have these pokemon. Surge can take down Rattata, starters besides bulbasaur, birds, bugs and even Mankey due to Raichu's stab on T-bolt + pretty good special attack. The most Eirika can do is sleep powder (which she can't pull of well, since her pokemon are likely to be much slower than yours). The main things Eirika has over surge are that Dig costs much less than ice beam (Dig's got less power though, so if you're using someone who hasn't got a good attack, you might not 1HKO), and she can do more (barely>nothing) than surge against those that counter her.

EDIT: ALSO, remember that all of surge's pokemon have the annoying ability static; taking out pikachu with dig may screw you up.

 

[Aquilae]

IMO, surge is harder than eirika; the following pokemon make Surge a cakewalk;
Geodude, Diglett, Sandshrew, Bellsprout/ Oddish, Nidoking/Nidoqueen (if you evolved them) and Bulbasaur (to an extent on the last 2/3)
All of them are pretty good/common, HOWEVER, Eirika is taken down by these pokemon;
Vulpix/Growlith, Charmander, Spearow, Pidgey, Kadabra, Drowzee (weee, insomnia FTW), Butterfree, Beedrill (double resist), Zubat and DUX (lol)

Also consider what happens if you don't have these pokemon. Surge can take down Rattata, starters besides bulbasaur, birds, bugs and even Mankey due to Raichu's stab on T-bolt + pretty good special attack. The most Eirika can do is sleep powder (which she can't pull of well, since her pokemon are likely to be much slower than yours). The main things Eirika has over surge are that Dig costs much less than ice beam (Dig's got less power though, so if you're using someone who hasn't got a good attack, you might not 1HKO), and she can do more (barely>nothing) than surge against those that counter her.

EDIT: ALSO, remember that all of surge's pokemon have the annoying ability static; taking out pikachu with dig may screw you up.

The main reason Surge is classified as easier than Erika and arguably the easiest gym leader is that Diglett is easily obtainable and shuts down his whole team.

IMO, we shouldn't take a situation where we do not have any of the counters to Surge, as it isn't any trouble to catch a Diglett and challenge Surge with it, seeing that it does not require levelling and has the highest catch rate in the game (255). Challenging a Gym Leader without the right preparations and bringing Pokemon that are easily downed by them is foolish.

The EXP isn't extremely important since there are already loads of EXP obtainable in the game, and 1405 EXP is insignificant.

From what I see, you are trying to show that Erika is beaten by weaker pokemon than Surge, as a main reason why Surge is harder than Erika. This is not a reason why Surge is harder than Erika, as a Gym Leader can be completely shut down by these weak pokemon, yet pose a threat as there are no easily accessible counters for the leader.

All of the pokemon you cited require training to pose a threat to Erika, yet in the case of Surge, Geodude, Diglett and Sandshrew all shut down Surge, and Diglett requires little or no training, and Geodude and Sandshrew can shut down Pikachu and Raichu without any training.

The fact that Erika can put nasty Status on your pokemon is already a major thing she has over Surge, and Ice Beam is not required to beat Erika as none of the pokemon you cited above learn Ice Beam and need to learn it to beat Erika.

Back on topic again, I feel that the ranking of the leaders should take in account:

1. Their actual strength versus all pokemon as a whole, whether they are able to pose a threat towards unprepared teams
2. The availability and resources needed for counters. As I cited above, Surge is shut down by the easily available Diglett, which gives him a low ranking

If there is an easily available pokemon to counter the leader, then #1 is kinda nullified. I put #1 there to analyze whether the leader fails at life, and does not require a counter to beat.

My proposed ranking of the strength of leaders is as follows:

1. Misty
2. Brock
3. Sabrina
4. Koga
5. Erika
6. Giovanni
7. Blaine
8. Lt. Surge

For Misty and Brock, there is a lack of resources easily available to beat them. Brock is shut down by Squirtle or Bulbasaur, but Charmander users would be hard-pressed to find and train an appropriate counter for his team {Mankey (Rare), Butterfree (Hard to train)}

Sabrina is also ranked because of #2, and Koga is difficult to counter due to the resources needed to train an appropriate pokemon to beat him, as his levels are high. Same goes for Sabrina.

#5 to #7 are pretty random, but #8, Lt. Surge is by far the easiest gym leader for reasons cited above in my post.

 

[Helios]

Touche on the Surge area.
But Brock I don't believe is 2nd hardest due to one fact; Charmander learns metal claw level 13, which (with a little bit of luck) allows you to easily KO Onix before it can get it's defenses up.

 

[Mekkah]

I believe the general idea is clear: being good against Brock, Misty and Sabrina is much better than being good against the rest (it may be just me, but from there it seems to go way downhill with the difficulty and there's not much of a point arguing).

Just a nitpick:

Mankey (Rare)

It may be just me but Mankey pops its head up really often in that grass patch near your second battle with Gary. All you'll find otherwise are Rattata and Spearow, as the Nidorans have moved.

Considering Dig, you get a free copy of it from the Rocket when you exit Cerulean towards Vermillion. The only competitors for that one are Pokemon you're using and wanting it on between this point and Celadon, as you can buy it there, and using it at that moment is probably your very best bet so you get the most out of it.

 

[Cynthia]

I think Aquilae made a good post, in general the earlier gym leaders are more difficult to beat due to lack of resources, so the Pokemon that help counter these early gym leaders are more valuable than some of their counterparts.

Oddish and Bellsprout may not be particularly wonderful Pokemon otherwise, but if you didn't pick Bulbasaur you're going to have to get one of them or grind some levels on a neutral type. Since the whole purpose is to avoid level grinding, using a type advantage is preferable. And really no gym leader in FRLG is just hopeless as far as I can tell, so usually it's easier to pack a counter.

I'm unsure whether to include Elite 4 members into the discussion as well. While you should have a well-balanced team by the time your reach the Elite 4 (part of the reason Giovanni +Blaine are so easy), their teams are more varied and require more specific counters than the gym leaders,not to mention the jump in levels.

 

[Aquilae]

For the Elite Four, the huge level lead is usually not that important since a few pokemon around level 50 can pull it off, without having to resort to needless grinding.

The Elite Four do require type advantages to win without having to use up too many resources.

Lorelei's Team:

Level 52 Dewgong, Water/Ice, Surf, Ice Beam, Hail, Safeguard
Level 51 Cloyster, Water/Ice, Dive, Spikes, Protect, Hail
Level 52 Slowbro, Water/Psychic, Yawn, Amnesia, Surf, Ice Beam
Level 54 Jynx, Ice/Psychic, Attract, Lovely Kiss, Doubleslap, Ice Punch
Level 54 Lapras, Water/Ice, Surf, Ice Beam, Body Slam, Confuse Ray

As far as type advantages go, Lorelei's team has two major weaknesses:

4x weakness to Electric
3x weakness to Fighting

Lorelei's team attacks using Ice, Water and Normal moves.

Bruno's Team:

Level 51 Onix, Rock/Ground, Iron Tail, Earthquake, Rock Tomb, Roar
Level 54 Onix, Rock/Ground, Iron Tail, Earthquake, Sand Tomb, Double-Edge
Level 53 Hitmonchan, Fighting, Mach Punch, Rock Tomb, Sky Uppercut, Counter
Level 53 Hitmonlee, Fighting, Mega Kick, Foresight, Facade, Brick Break
Level 56 Machamp, Fighting, Cross Chop, Rock Tomb, Bulk Up, Scary Face

I feel like omitting the Onix since they are easily taken care of with Surf.

Major Weaknesses:

Psychic, Flying - 3x
Fighting, Grass, Water, Ground, Steel, Ice - 2x, Water and Grass being a 4x effective move on Onix

Bruno's team attacks with Fighting, Rock and Normal moves.
His Onix attack with Ground, Steel, Rock and Normal moves.

Agatha's Team:

Level 54 Gengar, Ghost/Poison, Shadow Punch, Toxic, Confuse Ray, Double Team
Level 54 Haunter, Ghost/Poison, Hypnosis, Dream Eater, Curse, Mean Look
Level 56 Arbok , Poison, Sludge Bomb, Iron Tail, Bite, Screech
Level 54 Golbat , Flying/Poison, Air Cutter, Poison Fang, Confuse Ray, Bite
Level 58 Gengar , Ghost/Poison, Hypnosis, Nightmare, Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball

Major Weaknesses:

5x Psychic
3x Ghost, Dark

Agatha's team attacks with Poison, Psychic, Steel, Ghost and Flying moves.

The lead Gengar and Haunter don't directly attack, instead they use stauts inducing moves.

Lance's Team:

Level 56 Gyarados , Flying/Water, Dragon Rage, Twister, Bite, Hyper Beam
Level 58 Aerodactyl, Flying/Rock, Ancientpower, Wing Attack, Scary Face, Hyper Beam
Level 60 Dragonite , Flying/Dragon, Hyper Beam, Safeguard, Outrage, Wing Attack
Level 54 Dragonair , Dragon, Hyper Beam, Outrage, Thunder Wave, Safeguard
Level 54 Dragonair , Dragon, Hyper Beam, Outrage, Dragon Rage, Safeguard

Major weaknesses:

4x Ice
3x Rock
3x Dragon
2x Electric

Lance's team attacks with Normal (Hyper Beam), Dragon, Flying, Rock and Dark type moves.

Rival's Team:

Level 59 Pidgeot, Normal/Flying, Aerial Ace, Sand Attack, Featherdance, Whirlwind
Level 59 Rhydon, Rock/Ground, Earthquake, Rock Tomb, Take Down, Scary Face
Level 57 Alakazam, Psychic, Psychic, Future Sight, Recover, Reflect
Level 61/59/61 Gyarados/Exeggutor/Arcanine
Level 59/61/59 Exeggutor/Arcanine/Gyarados
Level 63 Charizard/Blastoise/Venusaur

The last three pokemon are variable depending on the Rival's starter:

Charizard - Level 61 Gyarados, Level 59 Arcanine
Blastoise - Level 61 Arcanine, Level 59 Exeggutor
Venusaur - Level 61 Arcanine, Level 59 Gyarados

Gyarados, Water/Flying, Hydro Pump, Dragon Rage, Bite, Thrash
Arcanine, Fire , Flamethrower, Extremespeed, Bite, Roar
Exeggutor, Grass/Psychic, Giga Drain, Egg Bomb, Sleep Powder, Light Screen
Charizard, Fire/Flying , Fire Blast, Fire Spin, Aerial Ace, Slash
Blastoise, Water , Surf, Hydro Pump, Rain Dance, Body Slam
Venusaur, Grass/Poison, Synthesis, Sunny Day, Solarbeam, Growth

Major weaknesses:

3x Electric, Rock (Charizard)

Moves used:

Charizard: Flying, Ground, Rock, Normal, Psychic, Water, Dark, Fire
Blastoise: Flying, Ground, Rock, Normal, Psychic, Water, Dark, Fire, Grass
Venusaur: Flying, Ground, Rock, Normal, Psychic, Water, Dark, Fire, Grass

Its confusing to look at the moves used, so I don't think it will have much practical use, at least for the Rival.

Anyway, Boltbeam sweeps the Elite Four, and some of them have glaring weaknesses or sucky movesets (Pure physical attacking Gengar, Hyper Beam, etc.)

I don't have much time to think of Pokemon that might have their tier status changed, but Lapras might deserve a higher ranking do to resisting Lorelei and ability to learn Thunderbolt.

 

[Gnarfard]

I have some input to this thread...

I have always caught all the legendary birds before the elite four and my team was usually overleveled and not-very-well thought together so I struggled with the E4, even though my pokemon were well into the 50's.

This time however:
sandslash / raichu / starmie / venusaur / golbat / primeape

My battle plan is to not use Charmander as my starter and to leave Zapdos and Articuno out of my final E4 team :)

 

[Haku16]

im kinda ticked off that Alakazam's moveset is so limited but is this set better?

Alakazam

-Psychic
-Calmmind
-Recover
-shock wave

also what are the new pokemon the E4 get after beating it the first time? the first time i beat it i was glad it was over then when i heard you had to battle it again i got annoued especially with the lv.boost they got.

 

[Shelcario]

The teams are as follows:

Lorelei:

Dewgong Lv. 64
Cloyster Lv. 63
Piloswine Lv. 63
Jynx Lv. 66
Lapras Lv. 66

Bruno:

Steelix Lv. 65
Hitmonlee Lv. 65
Steelix Lv. 66
Machamp Lv. 68
Hitmonchan Lv. 65

Agatha:

Gengar Lv. 66
Crobat Lv. 66
Gengar Lv. 70
Misdreavus Lv. 65
Arbok Lv. 68

Lance:

Gyarados Lv. 68
Dragonite Lv. 66
Kingdra Lv. 66
Dragonite Lv. 72
Aerodactyl Lv. 70

Rival:

Heracross Lv. 72
Gyarados Lv. 73
Alakazam Lv. 73
Venusaur(my rival's) Lv. 75
Tyranitar Lv. 72
Arcanine Lv. 73

Your welcome:)

 

[Haku16]

The teams are as follows:

Lorelei:

Dewgong Lv. 64
Cloyster Lv. 63
Piloswine Lv. 63
Jynx Lv. 66
Lapras Lv. 66

Bruno:

Steelix Lv. 65
Hitmonlee Lv. 65
Steelix Lv. 66
Machamp Lv. 68
Hitmonchan Lv. 65

Agatha:

Gengar Lv. 66
Crobat Lv. 66
Gengar Lv. 70
Misdreavus Lv. 65
Arbok Lv. 68

Lance:

Gyarados Lv. 68
Dragonite Lv. 66
Kingdra Lv. 66
Dragonite Lv. 72
Aerodactyl Lv. 70

Rival:

Heracross Lv. 72
Gyarados Lv. 73
Alakazam Lv. 73
Venusaur(my rival's) Lv. 75
Tyranitar Lv. 72
Arcanine Lv. 73

Your welcome:)

sweet i can also see you and me chose Squirtle as our starters.lol

 

[Shelcario]

Actually I was using my brothers' leafgreen cartridge, I actually chose Bulbasaur for my starter, sorry:(

 

[blasphemy1]

Misty is the toughest gym leader without a doubt. If you didn't start with Bulbasaur she will be tough to take down. You need Oddish/Bellsprout at a pretty high level to take her down, because Pikachu is too frail and unless it is leveled high, it won't outspeed.

 

[Yoshipal13]

I browsed the first page and read a few of the arguments, but I'm going to have to go against the grain here and say that Lapras deserves top. Mid at the least.

I did a run of FR two weeks ago, and I didn't have a water type until it came to Lapras. You get her right after you get Surf, so no, it is not too late to invest levelling her. She was up to par with the rest of my team in no time, using the water trainers on the way to Cinnabar, my extra rare candies I had accumulated to that point, Mansion, Blaine's gym, the Dojo, AND Sabrina's gym. She helped with her amazing moveset (Surf, Ice Beam, Psychic, Thunderbolt). Sure, I had to spend a bit of cash to get Thunderbolt, but it's not like there's any good electrics to give it to.

Lapras' large offensive type variety is what I think makes her excel. She practically solo'd the E4, and I was underlevelled for it. I didn't keep playing post-E4, but I imagine she is good for that too.

It really would depend on what else you have though on your team. I had Venusaur, Dugtrio, and Pidgeot so Lapras was very needed and I didn't find ANY other worthwhile Waters up until her.