Going with an Atlantis theme would also cleanly explain why Metagross is in that section as well. Orichalcum is prominent in the original descriptions of Atlantis, and it's likely from there that the name entered the public consciousness as a mythical metal. With the Steel-type legendaries having other locations on the chart locked in, the slot ended up going to the Steel pseudo.
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Game Freak hit with another hack, info leaking
- Thread starter Yung Dramps
- Start date
I've seen other people connect it to the Antikythera mechanism, an ancient mechanical computer used to study the orbit of the moon found in the ocean off the coast of Greece. That is speculation though, but it would make sense either way especially given the association Atlantis has with advanced technology.
Reading the groudon part of the same passage
So in this version of the passage Kyogre got the lati & metagross, Rayuqaza got Dragonite, Tyranitar and Snorlax (lmao), but Groudon got 3 original things. Has anyone figured out what these might've turned into? I can see one of them being Garchomp, maybe another Heatran.
So in this version of the passage Kyogre got the lati & metagross, Rayuqaza got Dragonite, Tyranitar and Snorlax (lmao), but Groudon got 3 original things. Has anyone figured out what these might've turned into? I can see one of them being Garchomp, maybe another Heatran.
Talonflame with that much attack sounds hilariously busted if it also had Gale Wings, considering it's comparable to EK Arceus as is. I think in the case of Zard-Y it actually would have been pretty balanced, since it mostly had low power moves like Air Slash that would be fairly in-line with "strong" priority options at the time, and wouldn't have the same nuclear Drought Fire/Solarbeam power to bust defenses. It'd be better against glass cannons in exchange for weaker against Walls, which does actually sound like it'd be a deliberate design to contrast Zard-X as the Tough Claws beatdown Dragon.
On some others:
- I'm almost certain Latios is kicked upstairs to ORAS Ubers with those old stats. The Mega's opportunity cost was primarily "you're LO strength but not much else," while this would have put it there plus a very notable jump in Speed (over +1 Adamant Dragonite or Weavile, stuff that have a much harder time with it if they have to use their Priority instead of typical STAB) on top of the existing Bulk Gains.
- Alakazam makes me think Mega Stones were going to be "use-up" items akin to Gems or Herbs (if only "once per battle" fashion), which would have resulted in some interesting interactions if they became itemless after using them, both for giving them like with a Trick/Bestow partner to benefit or say giving a Scarf to screw one up.
- Gyarados would explain the XY moveset, going for something like Blastoise of "Weak Coverage heavily bolstered by ability." Bite effectively becomes a 90 BP STAB with Strong Jaw, which gives parity with Waterfall or Aqua Tail compared to Crunch becoming 120 BP before STAB after Dark lost 2 Resistors and they probably weren't certain how well Fairy would ripple out at the time (since it was clearly targeted first at Dragons and buffing Poison/Steel on the side).
- Garchomp with 20 more Speed than it currently has sits at 112 Base, which would put it at a VERY strong Speed Tier by outspeeding the 110's that crowded up like Mega Metagross, Gallade, and Diancie alongside some non-Megas like the Incarnate Genies (very relevant given its immunity to Thundurus's Prankster T-Wave) alongside everything the 102 already hit. Combined with the usual benefits of STAB Earthquake and Dragon Damage, I could see this thing not only getting the boot from OU, but being downright lethal in some VGC formats considering EQ guts Mawile, it resists Zard-Y's Fire and takes neutral from Solarbeam, and has Stone Edge to threaten the Flying Genies without being vulnerable to the T-Wave I mentioned prior as easy Speed Control. Not sure it'd be one of the Big crowd outright, but that extra speed would go a long way alongside the substantial power and decent Defensive increase.
- +20 HP on Aegislash is surprisingly meaningful, considering that was its weakest link for Bulk. 40 more HP with full investment is about a 1/8 increase in health. For example, LO Bisharp goes from a chance to impossible to KO 252 HP with Sucker Punch after rocks. Don't think it'd shake up stuff nearly as much as the above mentioned Megas, but it'd make Aegislash a decent bit better at what it was already good at for such a small looking gain.
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Tyranitar and Snorlax are such perplexing choices for sky demigods, which in turn opens up the possibilities for who Groudon’s “supporters” could have been. Like, if they’re able to be as off-brand as Snorlax is from the sky, then for all we know, something like Drifblim could be one of Groudon’s angels
A different myth in the list of documents associates each member of the weather trio with only one “supporter”; Rayquaza gets Dragonite, Kyogre gets Gyarados, and Groudon gets Tyranitar, which makes more sense, but probably pre-dates the neat Sinjoh circle of creation design.
This proto gen III spreadsheet has some interesting design details now, like official name etymology and signature move concepts.
This move concept in particular I found interesting:
This move concept in particular I found interesting:
Were they considering the physical/special split back in 2002 already?
Podi also mentions a "normal water physical attack". There's quite a few instances of "normal physical attack" but none for "normal special attack" aside from Luster Purge. so I wonder if this is either a translation quirk or odd placeholder text they used to get the point across. Maybe meant as a contact attack?
" Beak Shield
Uses its hard beak as a shield to block the opponent's physical attacks."
oh good, the conceit of it spamming protect was baked into the concept. Thanks Masuda
Some of the other notes are really interesting. Take azurill for example
"Not fast, but has decent attack power.
When it evolves, its attack power doesn't change much, but its speed increases significantly.
Its speed is quite slow."
The stuff about speed is certainly accurate, but even for a baby Pokemon 20 base power is not exactly breaking the bank. And 20 -> 40 speed is...still pretty bad.
It kind of seems more like a comment for Trapinch, but at this point that wasn't connected to anything. I wonder if this design approach is what lead to them giving the line Huge Power?
"▼Milk Time
Withdraws from the battle forcefully to feed milk to the child on its back.
▼Tantrum
The kids on its back throw a fit, screaming loudly, which lowers the opponent's attack power."
Maakki is a very funny Pokemon.
The Latios & Latias notes are all very interesting in general. There's a lot of stuff that went into their concept; Mist Ball is made of feathers! And Latios was...meant to evolve...? Or something evolve INTO Latios? Strange.
Yeah, the wording about the moves is strange, but consistent. I definitely would like to know more about it.
Also, the attack description for Mist Ball mentions it being a "flurry of down", and since Gen VI, the attack animation features feathers too.
It seems like the signature move planned for the Shroomish line was reworked into Effect Spore.
But this was made in the development for gen 4. The Regis were already around. If anything, it looks more like they would have been new mons. That's why ones like Lucario, Cresselia, Darkrai, Heatran, and Garchomp have been throw around for it.
Ah you're right, never noticed that about Mist Ball's description.
Adding on to this, those 3 are also referenced in the masuda diagram also under Groudon (incidentally, the diagram had Tyranitar, Dragonite & Gyarados for Rayquaza, rather than Snorlax), while the Regi are over with Regigas. So they're definitely stand in codenames for new Pokemon.
Saw these stat notes on Volbeat and Illumise:
Another interesting detail: for a very brief moment Flygon was listed as Bug/Dragon (while Trapinch was Bug-type), only to become Bug/Flying instead. However, it also seems to have been listed as Ground/Dragon as well. It seems like they were going back and forth quite a bit on whether or not they should actually link Flygon to Trapinch.
Either way, it seems like the transition was a bit rocky.
I find this interesting, since this means their stats must have been flipped around before release, for some reason. I always found it strange that Volbeat learned Tail Glow, but had lower Sp. Atk than Illumise.
Another interesting detail: for a very brief moment Flygon was listed as Bug/Dragon (while Trapinch was Bug-type), only to become Bug/Flying instead. However, it also seems to have been listed as Ground/Dragon as well. It seems like they were going back and forth quite a bit on whether or not they should actually link Flygon to Trapinch.
Either way, it seems like the transition was a bit rocky.
I don't think this is the case as Metagross was intended to be based on a meteorite. The design document just calls for "meteorite pokemon 1 2 3" when they make the Beldum line.
omfg people this has not and never has been the issue with pokemon game quality
idk why people are even putting "furries liking this pokemon" and shit like the typhlosion thing in the same category
like typhlosion story isn't weird because furries, they've explicitly designed and pushed pokemon for furry appeal many times, it's weird because of the actual details of the story that are very disturbing especially for such a clean franchise
weren't some of the more disturbing details of the typhlosion story the result of a mistranslation of the original
i don't have the source on me right now but i saw something earlier today that stated this
EDIT: nvm i found it
i don't have the source on me right now but i saw something earlier today that stated this
EDIT: nvm i found it
Here's something kinda funny: Apparently the Mega Mewtwos were internally nicknamed "Mewthree" and "Mewfour"!
Aside from that, no evidence of any cut Megas besides Jynx in the beta code. If there's anything else it's gonna be in the dev docs
This magnet crab is my fuckin' dude. Love this crab.
Thank you for the confirmation! After some digging I found them. Luckily Brycen's was on Bulbagarden but I did need to venture into 4chan to find Elesa's. To make things simple I copied their sheet and will repost it here (the only editing I did was cut out a lot of the empty space between lines & moving around the comparison images):
Brycen:
His hobby is fishing, wouldn't have expected that (do we know Beartic was made at this point or is it serendipitous his ace is a polar bear?).
Species he's a master of Tai Chi and swords.
He was originally envisioned with visible scars all over his body, forming into a snowflake pattern. While most scars are to show his seriousness with training, he has a noticeable burn scar that was from the stunt accident. I can see them thinking that was a bit much and pulling back.
Much of his backstory is what we learned from the games, though specifies the stunt accident happened because he got complacent and slacked on his training. He then tried to live a simple life in the city but his face was too known, hence upon later joining the Pokemon League as a Gym Leader he started a new life and now wears a mask.
He's noted to be both shirtless but also have a tracksuit/jersey (the tracksuit makes sense as he can wear it unzipped. Maybe instead of jersey they meant a blazer/sport coat).
And he's compared to Bruce Lee (of course) and Warsman from the Kinnikuman/Ultimate Muscle manga/anime series (was the mask Warsman wore the kind Brycen was envisioned wearing instead of the domino mask?).
Elesa:
She was originally 15?! This is going to get awkward fast, isn't it?
Personality is "temperamental emotional instability". Uh, was she, like, originally going to be a critique on having children be models/pageant idols?
Hobby was collecting stuff animals (well, I guess she could still have that as a hobby, though feels like this is just more meant to push she's a child to contrast her being a fashion model)
What she is not good at: "mother". So this Elesa is sorta a proto-Lillie, huh?
And the description already starts with a very unfortunate spelling mistake. I think what they meant to say was "fashion model (be)come idol". Her mother was a designer and essentially got her into the modelling career. Though she was taught to captivate, she's not good at social interaction like expressing herself. Pokemon battles is how she relieves stress thus became a Gym Leader.
Her Gym was planned to be a fashion designer workroom with running sewing machines and other electrical devices.
190 cm (over 6 feet) tall at only 15, not impossible but certainly a growth spurt. Basically a fashion model figure specifically mentioning "no sex appeal" (well at least they knew not to do that for a child) and an inorganic baby face (so... her face is supposed to look like a baby doll's?).
AND then we get to her clothes which is a party dress & hot pants, with additional words like "to cash cool", "in a magazine", and "NYON" (which is a "premium" clothing brand, so she's wearing expensive clothes from a fashion magazine).
Finally, you'd think one of the people she would be compared to would be Lady Gaga, but infact the only person is an Australian fashion model named Gemma Ward (who was scouted at age 14, debuted on the walkway at 15, and looking at photoshoots I can see now what they mean by "inorganic baby face").
But overall, actually not too bad, at least compared to Skyla and Lenora (especially Skyla).
Professor Rowan:
Odd Rowan's concept sheet is also here, but may as well also give it a look. Being a generation apart and for a Professor instead of Gym Leaders, it's set up differently.
For example, we start with name suggestions. In addition to Rowan (chosen because that tree is found throughout the parts of Japan that Sinnoh was based on), there was also Asunaro (Cypress), Araragi (Orchid), Yezo/Ezo Pine (though its called a Pine its actually a Spruce), and Holly. Finally it was noted Rowan or Araragi (Orchid) were the most likely as they wanted to emphasize the doctor's image.
Skipping to comparison pictures, since they noted he had a thick beard, the two they chose was Alm-Onji/Alm-Uncle from the "Heidi, Girl of the Alps" anime series (yes, that's a thing) and, probably more wild, famous film director Stanley Kubrick (you know, director of The Shining, A Clockwork Orange, Full Metal Jacket, Eyes Wide Shut, Dr. Strangelove, 2001: A Space Odyssey, and Lolita (and Spartacus). You know, FOR KIDS!).
Of his personality notes he loves children as he sees them having a lot of potential, wanting to mentor and train them; however kids are scared of him because he's intimidating (which we see a bit of in the games and anime). Also notes his interest in Pokemon Evolution, infact he treat his research as his hobby so doesn't have a hobby. He does like to organize his bookshelf, especially when he's stuck on his research. But when he gets inspired he ends up leaving them in a mess, it's also mentioned he also gets lost in thought and ends up making small mistakes. No mention of his love for candy, I guess that was added later.
Since this was sort of a continuation of the last post (plus I have the attached images) I'll end it here, though I'm gonna start working on my other observations.
No. That's correct English. It means she's a model and an idol.
Edit: Also, lol, Khu is trying to 'leak' things again tangentially related to the Teraleak. Why do people believe this guy again after he basically showed everyone he has no sources anymore?
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AIGHT GANG, IT'S XY BEYTAHMONS TIME
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Excuse the doublepost, I think this is interesting enough to merit it.
So we got another, labeled map of Southern Kalos... And it might not actually be as severe of a cut as some thought?
Look carefully and you'll notice 22 numbered routes, which is the same amount as the final game. In addition, Terminus Cave isn't even in this version of the map. This seems to imply that at least some of the Southern Kalos stuff was reworked into the northern section of the map, albeit not all of it.
So we got another, labeled map of Southern Kalos... And it might not actually be as severe of a cut as some thought?
Look carefully and you'll notice 22 numbered routes, which is the same amount as the final game. In addition, Terminus Cave isn't even in this version of the map. This seems to imply that at least some of the Southern Kalos stuff was reworked into the northern section of the map, albeit not all of it.
No, take a closer look.
- Route 2 & 3 in the final game is both listed here as "D1", surrounding Santalune Forest.
- Route 4-8 is Route 2-6.
- Route 9 is listed as "D2", leading to the Glittering Cave.
- Route 10-20 is Route 7-17.
- Route 21 & 22 is combined to Route 18, surrounding the entrance to Victory Road.
Then we come to the Sourthern Kalos Routes which here starts with 19, a Route between an unique location (not a town or city) southwest of Vaniville Town which goes to Kiloude City.
- From Kiloude City you follow Route 20 to a Town.
- There it forks 3 ways, with two unlabelled paths to unique locations and a Route 21 that leads to a City.
- There you follow a short Route 22 to a Town.
- There it forks 4 ways all to unique locations with paths marked with a "D" and a Japanese symbol.
So there's definitely more than 22 Routes, it's just not all of them are marked as Routes. By my count there's 30 marked Routes/"D" paths, 32 if you count the paths in Southern Kalos which aren't marked (and that's not counting the missing locations & paths from the final version).
Some other oddity:
Ambrette Town is marked as a unique location than a Town.
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Honestly I’m not surprised a chunk of Kalos ended up having to be cut. I don’t know how GF’s planners expected to create what would have been easily their biggest region ever while also having to transition to 3D and create fully animated models for every single Pokémon. It feels like they bit off way more than they could chew.