Gardevoir (QC 0/0)

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One late night on Smogon ...

Random noob: People should seriously stop using Gardevoir
Random noob: She sucks
Real Gosu: I can't help it
Real Gosu: She looks so fuckable

Let's get it on!!


I'm starting this as a brainstorming thread first and then, as I test out Gardevoir, to gradually turn it into a real analysis.

So Gardevoir is first and foremost a support Pokemon. Her SpA is great, but with only 80 speed she can't really sweep. Physical defense and HP are both low, but she has great special defense, allowing her to tank many special hits. Also has WoW to patch up her physical defense. Her only real chance of setting herself apart from the crowd is her support movepool, which is really huge. List of all usable attacks there:

Trace (doesn't count as an attack, but whatever)
Destiny Bond
Healing Wish
Light Screen / Reflect
Rain Dance / Sunny Day / Trick Room
Thunder Wave
Someone confirm if Heal Bell is legal in B/W?

That said, Gardevoir has to directly compete with some of the best supporting Psychics in the entire game, including but not limited to: Cresselia, Uxie and Mew. So here we go ...

Comparing Gardevoir vs. Mew. Mew has key moves Stealth Rock and U-turn, superior bulk, superior speed, instant recovery and the invaluable ability to be unpredictable. Arguably the tier's premier supporting Psychic. It does miss out on a few important moves that Gardevoir does have though, which are Encore, Healing Wish / Memento and Wish. There's also Trace, which gives Gardevoir a few niches.

Comparing Gardevoir vs. Uxie. Uxie has key moves Stealth Rock and U-turn, superior bulk and superior speed (although it tends not to invest in them). Excellent ability in Levitate. Against that Gardevoir has far more offensive power, Encore, Healing Wish / Memento, Wish, and WoW.

Comparing Gardevoir vs. Cresselia. Cresselia gets instant recovery, but it is hurt by most weather conditions. It also has much superior bulk, the bulkiest of them all. Its offensive movepool isn't too bad, but its support movepool is the most barren of them all. I think Gardevoir easily competes against Cresselia.

Obviously Gardevoir's niche is going to be based around Encore, Healing Wish, Memento, Wish, Trace and to a lesser extent WoW. Destiny Bond is probably good for an OC mention, as is Hypnosis, but they're not reliable enough for general play. There are probably better users of Encore (Alakazam), so any Gardevoir set must utilize Healing Wish / Wish / Memento / Trace. Possible sets:

Note to QC: do not approve any of these sets unless you have used them, because I haven't!

name: Kamikaze!!
move 1: Healing Wish
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Light Screen
item: Leftovers
ability: Trace
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Get in safely, use your support moves, and finally when Gardevoir's time is up, Healing Wish out to your best late-game sweeper, hopefully with any physical attackers burned and Light Screen in place against any special attackers. Healing Wish's buff this generation should really help here.

name: Wish
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers
ability: Trace
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Only Psychic type with both Wish and Will-O-Wisp, Wish support may still be better served by Chansey though. This set I'm skeptical about.

name: Status platform
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Wish / Healing Wish
item: Leftovers
ability: Trace
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Ground Pokemon that are immune to Thunder Wave are very vulnerable to WoW, not to mention tend to have low SpD so Psychic hits hard. Last slot is open to debate. I think Healing Wish is the best option there, but then this would be quite similar to the first set ...

Countered by Lightningrod / Volt Absorb Pokemon, obviously, although if Gardevoir traces those abilities then it's immune to their STAB and should be fine.

name: Weather counter
move 1: Taunt
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Thunder Wave / Focus Blast
item: Leftovers
ability: Trace
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def

If only Gardevoir learned Magic Coat ... as it is, she can still switch in on Froslass and Taunt (they're not likely to expect it), although that will be two layers of Spikes down. Walrein can't stall Gardevoir; it'll actually heal itself with Ice Body and can Taunt. Rain teams have started showing up, and a Swift-swimming Gardevoir can outspeed all rain sweepers and attack with Thunderbolt. Stoutland is not likely to be max speed, so Gardevoir can outspeed and attack first, although it cannot switch in. It cannot OHKO Stoutland without Focus Blast, though.

Taunt may be unnecessary on this set, and countering Froslass left to another Pokemon.

[Other Options]
- Destiny Bond and Hypnosis, as before.
- Torment + Disable + Toxic + Reflect with specially defensive spread?
- Specs Future Sight aka. wannabe Specs Jirachi?
- Psyshock to hit Chansey, but then Gardevoir isn't sweeping through Chansey anyway (or even trying to sweep ...) so why bother.

[Checks and Counters]
- You can't stop Gardevoir using her support moves, but she is weak to Pursuit and has low defense. Getting a pursuiter in when she isn't using WoW / Reflect would likely remove her for good.
- Any Pokemon with Oblivious is, of course, oblivious to Gardevoir's feminine charms
- Heracross if it doesn't switch in on Psychic / TWave
- Houndoom
- Baton Passing Pokemon that don't care about being statused themselves as long as the receiver isn't statused
- Prankster Taunts / Encore
- Celebi has Natural Cure + resists her STAB, Shaymin probably works too
- As long as she doesn't have Encore, you can probably set up on her. Calm Mind users would be great.

Well, a lot to test.
If someone's going to convince me that Gardevoir is viable, it will be someone who has actually used the sets they are proposing. Without even getting into the "outclassed" argument, none of these sets would warrant usage on a competitive team on their own merit. Sticking with my original rejection.


PK Gaming

Persona 5
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I agree with Snunch. Look, its not like we're biased against Gardevoir, but those sets you proposed are just awful. (and some of them are actually outclassed by other Pokemon) I can't accept this pokemon, sorry.

Ok so this, to be honest, rather silly. I'm going to say that:

1. It's too early to reject Gardevoir because I haven't tested her yet (and, I suspect, neither has either of you). I fully intend to test her, I just haven't done it yet. Until then, this thread is more a placeholder than anything else (hence the QC 0/0 tag).
2. You say neither of these sets "warrant usage" or "are just awful" and yet do not say why. I don't see how they are awful or do not warrant usage. If I did, I wouldn't even have made this thread.
3. PK Gaming claims the sets are outclassed when I don't see any other Pokemon that can do what she does (well, Smeargle).

If you guys are rejecting this based on theory, I'll want to see why. If you're rejecting this based on experience, I'd appreciate some description of what actually happened in a game. Until then, I'll say your rejections are premature.
So I can see what I'm working with + post any results + other people (who've used Gardevoir) can provide input?


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The thing is though that I haven't been allowing placeholder threads. The only ones that I have are Zurich's Alakazam thread (though I really shouldn't have) and the Volbeat thread.

I'll lock this and revoke the two rejections. I'll open it back up when you're ready Banedon.

EDIT: Talked it over with Snunch. Once you've tested Gardevoir and can show proof of a set working, post again in the Unfit thread.
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