Gay marriage/adoption

Do you believe in aliens?

  • Yes

    Votes: 56 62.2%
  • Yes, but not in religious buildings (church, mosque, synagogue)

    Votes: 16 17.8%
  • No

    Votes: 18 20.0%

  • Total voters
    90
In terms of a better place, that's the reason I inserted a white child there. For a white child, a white family is better. But for a black child, a black family is better because he'll just be a bummer in a white family. But being a gay's adopted child, whether the child'd gay or not, he/she will always have the society's torture. So another place is better for that child.
You want to try defending this statement again?
 
Know what annoys me more than homosexuals not getting rights?

A debate about their rights popping up every day and causing a self-destruction of whatever it's debated on.

Honestly that's my opinion. If you don't have a deep personal connection to gay segregation, just shut up.
I don't normally like responding with soundbites but your ignorance is explosive and this is completely appropriate:



Firstly, I don't know what this "self-destruction" that you're on about is. Secondly, as empathic beings people tend to have an opinion about measures that cause the suffering of others, even if it doesn't affect them directly.
 

SkullCandy

She Bangs The Drums
is a Contributor Alumnus
Honestly that's my opinion. If you don't have a deep personal connection to gay segregation, just shut up.
I'm sorry but this is possibly the stupidest thing anyone has said on this thread. As cookie showed, you cannot take the view that just because you don't have "a deep personal connection" to something you should ignore it. So unless you are gay/bi or have a gay close friend or family member you shouldn't stand up for gay people? Really? Are you really trying to say that?

Although here you only related it to gay people your argument is just as wrong when applied to other opressed people/minorities. Should white people not stand up for ethnic minorities? Should men not stand up for women? Should humans not stand up for animals?

I could go on but I think your stupidity is clear to everyone else here.
 

Fishy

tits McGee (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)
Marriage like religion is open to interpretation and therefore you saying "thats it", is just like saying that my view of the world is incorrect, and therefore yours is correct therefore I must follow your view. Viewing it like that is pretty close minded and ignorant indeed.
i wasn't speaking at all on who is correct or incorrect - it's called expressing my own opinion.

the difference between my doing that and your previous declaration is that my opinions were not expressed so insensitively as they were blunt.

as for Vein, i think he's being completely honest in how he feels - and it's completely heart breaking. i can only hope that every day is a day closer to the average person being able to look past race as any sort of distinction past aesthetics in society, but it's so obvious that some people cannot come to terms with such a notion because of their own culture/life experiences.

the knights of wario land's post is flabbergasting
 
Knights of the Wario Land, you seem to have deleted your post, but it's quoted anyway, so I just want to say: do you have any personal connection to this affair? If not, then who are you to tell others to stop? As someone who does, I want people whom it does not affect personally to discuss and be aware of it. I want it to be a matter of public discourse so that my rights can change due to changing public opinion and increasing number of allies, which won't happen as long as uninvolved people pretend we don't exist and sweep it under the rug, leaving it to be little more than a niche issue only cared about by a select group of people.

Vein, a possible solution to the stigma in society against homosexuality and gay adoption affecting everyone, including gay children / adolescents who live with their heterosexual biological parents (!), would be to do your bit and stop propagating it... acceptance starts with the individual.
 

SkullCandy

She Bangs The Drums
is a Contributor Alumnus
I want people whom it does not affect personally to discuss and be aware of it. I want it to be a matter of public discourse so that my rights can change due to changing public opinion and increasing number of allies, which won't happen as long as uninvolved people pretend we don't exist and sweep it under the rug, leaving it to be little more than a niche issue only cared about by a select group of people.

This. If we as a society decide that we can only confront issues that have some sort of personal relevance, we would descend into an anarchic, self-serving and self-centered hell-hole that I shudder to think of.

I agree with jumpluff entirely. When I first told some friends that I was bi I was worried about what they would think and how they would treat me. But all they said was how incredible it was that someone they knew so well was bi; I found it incredible how supportive they were. Obviously I'm not putting myself on a pedestal here. What I am saying is that the second they knew I was bi their opinion didn't change. They thought it was ok because it is not because I was bi.

Onto how this relates to gay marriage... As a guy who hopes to get married one day (whether it be to a man or a woman, I haven't found the right person yet), if a lack of discussion is what slows the progress of gay marriage legislation being introduced, then we should discuss it more. Things don't happen because they are right and just, they happen because people make a fuss about them, take part in debates, write letters to newspapers, start a blog on the matter, hell, even start a thread on Smogon about gay marriage!
 
I do not believe in aliens. I also don't believe a man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman is good. I also don't believe it's in a Christian's job description to prevent people from doing so if they choose.

Jesus, and later Paul and the apostles were living under Roman rule, a society way more immoral than any of ours. They certainly begged people to repent, but everyone was free to refuse, and no effort was made to force anyone. Also, there was no talk of trying to impose Christian values on unbelievers, largely because acting moral when there is no true love for God makes you a hypocrite and is of no benefit to your soul. No talk of infiltrating the government either in order to one day create 'the perfect Christian society'.

If America decides it wants to throw off the shackles of oppression and live freely like all the utopian secular or pagan societies we find in history, then so be it. Christianity has always been more effective when it was unpopular anyway.

An ironic thing, I find, is that most people in this thread using the phrase 'open-minded' really mean 'thinks like me'. As someone who once held the opposite view I hold now, I do think I understand both sides of the issue, at least emotionally. That doesn't mean I'm open-minded though, and I wonder how that ever came to be seen as a virtue when everyone is quite obviously and proudly entrenched in their own views.
 

mattj

blatant Nintendo fanboy
Bigotry is intolerance of those who hold different opinions than yourself. Cartoons plainly said, I disagree with homosexuality but I'm going to let them make their own choices. That is a perfect example of tolerance. Cartoons is not a bigot.

Now, you on the other hand don't seem all that willing to tolerate Cartoon's opinion. You are definitely more of an example of a bigot.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
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I guess... if a plan of doing away with "marriage" as a legal term and making them all civil unions counts as anti-gay-marriage...
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
OFCOURSE I BELIEVE IN ALIENS GAWD WHAT A DUM POLL



my opinion on this issue isn't complex. i feel that denying gay couples the right to marry/adopt children is nothing short of immoral and inhuman. they can't help that they are the way that they are, so to torment them over the issue even further when many members of society already do is just awful. and this is coming from a fairly religious christian (albeit an episcopalian lol, MUCH more liberal than catholics for those who dont know the difference).
 
Bigotry is intolerance of those who hold different opinions than yourself. Cartoons plainly said, I disagree with homosexuality but I'm going to let them make their own choices. That is a perfect example of tolerance. Cartoons is not a bigot.

Now, you on the other hand don't seem all that willing to tolerate Cartoon's opinion. You are definitely more of an example of a bigot.
alright fine, substitute out "bigotry" for "hatred of gay people and their actions"
 
I guess... if a plan of doing away with "marriage" as a legal term and making them all civil unions counts as anti-gay-marriage...
that's not what i meant. i have yet to hear a decent argument against the idea of homosexuals having the same rights as heterosexuals.
 

DM

Ce soir, on va danser.
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a lot of people in this thread need to settle the fuck down and learn how to post rationally
 

Chou Toshio

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that's not what i meant. i have yet to hear a decent argument against the idea of homosexuals having the same rights as heterosexuals.
It's a pretty hard argument to make... I can't think of any...

...um...

anyone?

Looking at a society about to fully accept homosexuality, I can't help but feel like watching a movie where Ash is about to make a wish using Jirachi's powers... You know something really bad is going to happen, but you can't for the life of you think of what could possibly go wrong.

Someone, at some time, in some generation may have established an anti-homosexual society for serious reasons that we, with our logic, have no way of comprehending... or maybe it's just an issue of stupid human bigotry like racism. It probably is just that-- stupid bigotry. And yet, I can't help but feel like I'm getting a bad omen when I think about gay marriage/adoption.

Again though-- I can't, and I don't think anyone else can, make a compelling logical argument as to what could be bad or wrong about gay marriage. If there are negative externatlities/consequences, they're just not things you see until you get there...
 

Oglemi

Borf
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Again though-- I can't, and I don't think anyone else can, make a compelling logical argument as to what could be bad or wrong about gay marriage. If there are negative externatlities/consequences, they're just not things you see until you get there...
If two guys or girls are allowed to marry each other then it's guaranteed that they won't have children to carry on the human species and ensure population growth.

This is probably (in my theory anyway) the only reason why homosexuality (well sodomy as it's defined in the Bible or "thou shalt not lay down with another man") is looked down upon as a horrible sin.

In a world (circa EDIT: circa 400 BC. - 100) where there is no sanitation, plagues are a near annual occurrence, wars are a near everyday part of life, and laws are upheld by the community and not any kind of police force, it's easy to understand why homosexuality would be put down in the Bible. When the average age of life expectancy is about 40 years old for men and women, people also aren't around for very long.

Take this into consideration with the culture of the time: boys are wanted to be enlisted in the army; children are wonderful workers on the family farm; marrying off your kids to other families allows you to form alliances with them; and being able to mooch off your kids when your old and crippled gives you security later in life.

With all of that in mind, it's pretty easy to see why homosexuality would be demonized in the Bible. If gay people are able to go around and not impregnate the girls to have boys for the future, society could easily collapse. Especially with those nasty plagues; if gay people aren't having babies, and a plague comes through the town or whatever, that could be the end of your society. If they were having babies, then kids they did have would give your society a better chance to survive and carry on to the next generation.

So, it's really easy to see why you would want to be against gay marriage back in the day of the Bible (edit: well Jesus I guess is more accurate) and all the way up until recently (like the 1700s). But now, with our 7 billion people or whatever on the planet, I think we can spare the few gay people getting together and marrying and not having children because, let's be honest, the world doesn't need any more children. There really isn't any rational behind not allowing gay people to marry except the "because God says it's wrong" argument.

With the issue of the gay people adopting: I'm obviously for it, and while I can't cite any sources, I do remember reading something in my Human Sexuality class that stated that children raised in a homosexual family were no different than those raised in similar heterosexual families and showed no tendencies to be gay more so than their heterosexually-raised counterparts. Until evidence comes up against gay people raising children, like the children showing major mental disabilities are an extremely large percentage showing homosexual tendencies, then I can't see any logical reason to not allow gay people to raise children.

long post is long

EDIT: Oh, and while I'm on my history binge, also consider this: male-male anal sex must have SUCKED back then unless they had some sort of lube. If it's hard to imagine having anal sex now with all our special kinds of lube/toys/condoms/etc., it must have been really really difficult for people to imagine guys having anal sex back then (for those of you who don't know, your anus does not create any natural kind of lube, unlike the vagina, which would also go along with and strengthen the Bible-thumpers argument that gay people should not be having sex since your body does not naturally allow you to do so). There's also the whole St. Augustine's binge on sex is bad and sex only for procreation, but none of that is in the Bible so I'll just leave that there. So, while I'm gay and am obviously for gay marriage/adoption, it's still interesting to think about the reasons why homosexuality was repressed and demonized.

EDIT2: Ah, thanks for the clarification TheValkryies, I was kinda ballparking it, good to know I was close-ish lol.
 
I think homosexuality is wrong. It is not what god intended.
"Why does god allow this" He gave us free will and the ability to decipher right and wrong. The majority of us believed that homosexuality was wrong until SOCIETY PRESSURED YOU into changing your views. You choose to turn your back to god when you slept with another Man or Women and then you expect sympathy from us?

When speaking in terms of politics Gay marriage introduces so many loopholes into our system its unreal. Under the heinous assumption that this "couple" has a kid who is the default parent? Generally speaking the courts would rule in the mothers favor but that situation obviously does not exist in this circumstance.

You are not born a homosexual you choose to be one. You choose if you want your ass pounded by another dude or do whatever the fuck lesbians do. Heterosexuality is not a choice it is instilled in our genes. We were born with one purpose.. reproduce. Homosexuality shits on that basic principle of life.

What makes gays even worse is that they flaunt their sexual orientation in front of others. Yes there is a pink elephant in the room YOU DONT HAVE TO FUCKING DRAW MORE ATTENTION TO IT.

Homosexuality is just fucking wrong.
 
TlDr

This thread is a fucking joke. Who gives a fuck if you are gay and want to be married. Its not like marriage is a sacred thing considering the current divorce rate.

Have a kid to... but you better do your best to raise him properly...

Love them and support them above and beyond your best ability. Just like any other parent should.
 
I think homosexuality is wrong. It is not what god intended.
"Why does god allow this" He gave us free will and the ability to decipher right and wrong. The majority of us believed that homosexuality was wrong until SOCIETY PRESSURED YOU into changing your views. You choose to turn your back to god when you slept with another Man or Women and then you expect sympathy from us?

When speaking in terms of politics Gay marriage introduces so many loopholes into our system its unreal. Under the heinous assumption that this "couple" has a kid who is the default parent? Generally speaking the courts would rule in the mothers favor but that situation obviously does not exist in this circumstance.

You are not born a homosexual you choose to be one. You choose if you want your ass pounded by another dude or do whatever the fuck lesbians do. Heterosexuality is not a choice it is instilled in our genes. We were born with one purpose.. reproduce. Homosexuality shits on that basic principle of life.

What makes gays even worse is that they flaunt their sexual orientation in front of others. Yes there is a pink elephant in the room YOU DONT HAVE TO FUCKING DRAW MORE ATTENTION TO IT.

Homosexuality is just fucking wrong.
can't tell if serious
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
I wanted to avoid this thread, but these last few posts has been fucking fantastic. First, Chou_Toshio basically saying he doesn't like the idea of gay marriage or gay adoption because it makes him feel icky and then Stagnant coming in with a legendary bigot post.

Normally I would get worked up about stupidity about homosexuality like this, but these posts were too great.


EDIT: @Oglemi Leviticus is a chapter of the Old Testament which actually dates the idea of homosexuality being a sin to back when the Torah was compiled around 400 BC. 50 years before Alexander the Great was born and 80 years after the Battle of the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. Fun fact.
 
Hi. My name is Gabriel and I'm gay!

My sexuality was something I had to come to terms with. I've grown up in an environment where I was told that being gay was a choice or immoral - that being gay meant that you didn't deserve the same rights as a straight individual simply because of your sexual orientation. At a young age I also had the luxury of hearing a bunch of other shit about gay people, which include but are not limited to: being detrimental to society, children who are raised by gay parents will turn out to be gay, that gay people are going to hell for being gay (this and many other things are the reason I'm an atheist), and so on. Because of the situation I was raised in, it was very difficult for me to accept the idea that I might find men attractive. My father would enjoy walking around telling me that I "better not be gay!" (because he was actually afraid of the idea that his only son might be homosexual). My Mother and Grandmother are not approving of homosexuals (though in a much less scary way than my Father, who I'm sure would beat me if he found out). So, everyday I get to live in fear and anxiety because I am not certain what my parents would do to me or how they would react if they found out that their (grand-)son was homosexual.

At school the situation is fairly similar. Lots of people say similar things to what my parents believe. I think one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had was a co-worker (who also goes to my school) tell me that if I raised a child they would have a miserable life, despite being raised by two people that love him/her very, very much.

Unfortunately for my boyfriend, he was raised in a much more hostile environment than I was. While he was younger his parents frequently fought and threatened each other. Eventually they divorced and are now back together, with him as their only child left to raise (his other two siblings are quite a bit older than him and out of the house). A fun experience he had with His Mother a while back was where she kept asking if he was gay (because his older brother had made a joke or something I don’t even /know/). He kept responding with “no”, but she still kept asking. Being a smartass teenager, he finally said “yes” just to get her to shut up, and her response was to throw everything out of his room into the living room, all while threatening to kill him then herself.

As for the friends I’ve had since I’ve let be aware of my sexuality: almost all of them have been very accepting, and have not looked at me any different since I told them. The only one it has really affected was the one friend I have who’s been born and raised here (Louisiana) his entire life. He was very upset to learn that I was both homosexual and an atheist. He wasn’t angry at me for being this way, but rather frustrated that, under his belief system, his best friend, whom he looks at as a better person than himself, is going to burn in hell for the rest of eternity. We had many interesting conversations about this, most of which included him being in denial about me being atheist (because I went to church with him - but this is only because he told me he really would enjoy the company, however this stopped when I told him how going to church felt (needless to say it was a less than pleasant experience to listen to the preacher tell us that whores, pagans, and whores are all terrible people), and he equates going to church with being a good person), that maybe I wasn’t really gay, and an inability to accept that his friend is going to suffer even though he’s a good person.

It hurts me to have people talk about how I’m not fit to raise a child or get married or even be happy because of something I can’t change. I can’t wake up one day and magically suddenly be straight okay it doesn’t work like that and it never will. I’m sorry the idea of two men getting married, adopting and raising and loving a child haunts the deepest recesses of your mind in a way that my most fantastic nightmares could never fathom.

As for the topic at hand, obviously I’m for gay marriage and gay adoption. I want to get married and I some day want to have adopt a child. The argument that the best environment for a child to be raised in is one with both One Mother and One Father is dumb. The best environment to raise a child is one where they are loved and cared by the people around them, whether they're two fathers, two mothers, one father and one mother, an aunt, a cousin, uncles, whoever.

EDIT: I was very anxious while writing this post so sorry if it was poorly worded or prosed weirdly.
 
You are not born a homosexual you choose to be one. You choose if you want your ass pounded by another dude or do whatever the fuck lesbians do. Heterosexuality is not a choice it is instilled in our genes. We were born with one purpose.. reproduce. Homosexuality shits on that basic principle of life.
See this kind of argument has never really flied with me. I think that we can both agree that for someone to willingly engage in a homosexual act you have to actually enjoy it. With that in mind, either God creates certain people that enjoy having sex with people of the same gender and others who don't, basically setting them up to fail (maybe he loves them less? I don't know maybe you can explain it to me) or everyone on this earth besides gay people (including you) actively repress homosexual urges every day of your life.

To the second part of that statement....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
 

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