Makes no sense to me, I came to import my team from my original game in blue and i cant play because apparently dig on my ninetails is broken? Can someone explain to me how its broken when there are so many other moves and bugs allowed in the game that are game breaking which are allowed but a move implemented as intended is too strong? Theres a reason I take swift on some of my pokemon. Its to hit fly/dig/minimize users. Kinda baffled honestly.
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Gen 1 Dig/Fly ban?
- Thread starter Magenta
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Deleted User 108547
Banned deucer.
Extracted from Isa's Introduction to RBY guide. As you can see, Dig and Fly could induce to an uncompetitive scenario.
I hardly see how its uncompetitive considering other glitches. Don't paralyse or confuse mons that potentially may use dig or fly. Its apart of the game, there are ways around it. Using the excuse that people wont know about it and therefore may be abused is also absurd considering all the other glitches that can be abused too, not to mention its on the off chance someone (realistically) uses thunder wave or confuse ray. Theses two moves are core to gen 1 battling and to remove them is just wrong. I don't see why you could just not implement the glitch if its really that much of an issue that people are so terribly handicapped by not being able to paralyse or confuse a pokemon that may or may not have dig/fly. If you're going to ban moves that cause glitches rather than removing the glitch itself then let me tell you Ive got a long list of moves for you to ban.
xJoelituh
Banned deucer.
PS is supposed to simulate 100% of the ingame mechanics as much as it can. If a move can make a Pokemon, literally immortal besides swift(which is not used on anything), then the move should be banned. It is uncompetitive because you can't do much about it and it is also something out of your control. If you really want to play with your ingame team, play on gen 1 custom battle, that exists for a reason.
If this was allowed, trust me, people would abuse the hell of it, because on some cases it would mean an instawin to the player who gets it.
The Dig/Fly glitch does not seem to be implemented on PS so can't occur in Custom Game.
You can do something about it. Don't confuse/paralyse pokemon that can dig/fly. If you really want to simulate 100% gen 1 battling, then you have to accept that these glitches exist and to play around them. There's no point acting like there's nothing you can do about it and its uncompetitive when the way to stop it is to not confuse/paralyse a pokemon with dig/fly. In fact there are multiple glitches with moves caused by the interactions that paralyse/confuse create. Maybe not as bad as immortality but they're there. Anway no point complaining about it if its not going to get anywhere. Just don't use the excuse its uncompetitive when there are clear ways around the glitch.
Paralysis is currently a very essential part of the RBY metagame. Without it, it would almost be impossible to make some bulky pokemon faint or switch into them somewhat safely. Just banning Fly and Dig on Smogon was already been decided on before I started playing on Showdown. It makes no sense to just change that now unless a majority of the playerbase pushes for that change which is not the case.
There’s (at least) 4 options regularly brought up to ban undesirable effects: banning the moves, making the effect fail, forcing in-battle restrictions to prevent the effect occurring, and forcing the offender to forfeit the game. The latter two have been avoided, while there’s been a shift towards banning moves instead of making an effect fail in recent years. Banning sleep moves or freezing moves would have a much larger impact than dig/fly. Sleep and Freeze Clauses are not the most ideal ways to actually solve the problem, but they are implemented in Stadium, so they are preferred to custom solutions.
Players could adapt to OHKO moves being used too, but having the threat of tanks like Snorlax be KOed at full health based on a single roll, is not something the playerbase wants to face either.
Players could adapt to OHKO moves being used too, but having the threat of tanks like Snorlax be KOed at full health based on a single roll, is not something the playerbase wants to face either.
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You do realize that what you're saying is "Never use Thunder Wave, Body Slam, Stun Spore, or Confuse Ray until the opponent has revealed their ENTIRE team and, in some cases, their ENTIRE movesets until you can guarantee that when you click one of those moves your opponent won't be able to switch in a Digging/Flying Pokemon to eat it" right? I think it's pretty apparent how not-feasible that is.
Besides all that has been said, the only reason we would ever allow Dig and Fly again would be exactly to attempt to exploit that glitch, because Fly and Dig have absolutely no use in RBY battling (neither does Swift). Dig is strictly worse than Earthquake and every Pokemon that can learn Dig but not Earthquake is not good and/or has better options:
The only Pokemon that I can think that could remotely benefit from using Fly is Articuno, since Rocks dont want to switch on it because of the threat of Blizzard, but then I realized this:
Articuno Fly vs. Chansey: 187-220 (26.6 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Which makes the move completely useless on Articuno too. Stick to Sky Attack if the mon doesnt learn Drill Peck and you really want a Flying move (which you shouldn't, since Sky Attack is also not a good move).
The only Pokemon that I can think that could remotely benefit from using Fly is Articuno, since Rocks dont want to switch on it because of the threat of Blizzard, but then I realized this:
Articuno Fly vs. Chansey: 187-220 (26.6 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Which makes the move completely useless on Articuno too. Stick to Sky Attack if the mon doesnt learn Drill Peck and you really want a Flying move (which you shouldn't, since Sky Attack is also not a good move).
Dig has a base power of 100 in gen 1 making it on par with earthquake in terms of damage. Except you get the added bonus of being invulnerable on the first turn. I mean if you guys dont even know this about dig i have little reason to keep arguing, waste of time.Besides all that has been said, the only reason we would ever allow Dig and Fly again would be exactly to attempt to exploit that glitch, because Fly and Dig have absolutely no use in RBY battling (neither does Swift). Dig is strictly worse than Earthquake and every Pokemon that can learn Dig but not Earthquake is not good and/or has better options:
The only Pokemon that I can think that could remotely benefit from using Fly is Articuno, since Rocks dont want to switch on it because of the threat of Blizzard, but then I realized this:
Articuno Fly vs. Chansey: 187-220 (26.6 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Which makes the move completely useless on Articuno too. Stick to Sky Attack if the mon doesnt learn Drill Peck and you really want a Flying move (which you shouldn't, since Sky Attack is also not a good move).
You can use paralysing moves againsts pokemon that cant use dig/fly. Not a big deal.
Neither snorlax or chancy can learn dig/fly in gen 1, who else are you going to complain about being too bulky?. Jesus christ. Yeah i'm definitely wasting my time here.
xJoelituh
Banned deucer.
You know that people can switch .. right? They could let the Pokemon with that move get para and potentially winning the game or at least waste a lot of PPs of their opponent :/. This is still uncompetitive and going no where. It won't get unbanned because one guy can't use his ingame team on the ladder, just change the move.
This kind of question belongs in the Simple Question Simple Answer thread for future reference.
As other posters have said, it's not reasonable or desirable for players to have to account for a glitch that could result in an endless game by using obscure and weak moves, and the moves are widely considered to be competitively irrelevant, so it was decided that the fairest way to avoid the glitch being exploited was to ban these moves. If you don't like it, you can play with the custom game setting.
You evidently are lacking in competitive experience based on some of your posts, so please try to be more respectful to the experienced players who have been kind enough to take the time to make detailed responses to you in future.
As other posters have said, it's not reasonable or desirable for players to have to account for a glitch that could result in an endless game by using obscure and weak moves, and the moves are widely considered to be competitively irrelevant, so it was decided that the fairest way to avoid the glitch being exploited was to ban these moves. If you don't like it, you can play with the custom game setting.
You evidently are lacking in competitive experience based on some of your posts, so please try to be more respectful to the experienced players who have been kind enough to take the time to make detailed responses to you in future.
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