Pet Mod [Gen 1] FutureProofing (Complete)

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
Move: Dark pulse
Type: Poison
Power: 90
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15
Effect: 10% chance to lower the foe's defense
Distribution: EVERY POISON TYPE
Justification: Think of this as if instead of dark energy the pokemon is spreading toxins and deals damage througn them, also acid's effect because poison status sucks.
This is not a comment on the move's viability or anything, but just wanting to let you know that we are in the process of changing Strange Steam (another Poison-type move) as its current effect is non-functional. If you're looking for a better poison attacking move, it will likely exist soon and this sub will be a bit redundant, so I would suggest something else.
 

Yoshiblaze

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Move: Fiery Wrath
Type:

Power: --
Accuracy: 90%
PP: 15
Effect: Burns the foe
Distribution::moltres::arcanine::ninetales::gardevoir::spiritomb::charizard::rapidash::magmar::weezing::whimsicott::mew: (:gengar:?)
Justification: Burn is pretty awful in Gen 1, so having a move that just does that is pretty unimpressive, but burn still has some merit, notably neutering Tauros in case a lot of your team gets paralyzed, which makes it absolutely certain that it can't clean up, and being able to burn physical attackers that are immune to Thunder Wave or don't care about being slower like Steelix, Rhydon, and Snorlax. Just be careful using it so you don't accidentally burn a Chansey

Move: Metal Sound
Type:

Power: --
Accuracy: --
PP: 10
Effect: Shares HP of user and target equally. (Pain Split effect)
Distribution::magneton::weezing::ninetales::chansey::escavalier:(:gardevoir:?)
Justification: (Resub) First things first, the flavor for this is that both Pokemon are subjected to a grating noise and thus they share the pain. Flimsy for sure, but it's there. Anyway, Pain Split is a super powerful effect in a generation dominated by two high HP Pokemon, essentially being a Super Fang against Chansey and Snorlax sometimes. This is huge for Special Attackers that'd otherwise struggle to break through Chansey and weaker attackers that can't KO Snorlax through its Rests and Reflects. Also provides an alternative form of recovery, making bringing Lax and Chansey in dangerous. However, with such a powerful effect, we do have to be very careful with what gets it, so I opted for lower ranked/unranked mons that are mostly Physical Attackers, leaving out some future gen Pain Split users like Starmie, Gengar, and Spiritomb since it could be too powerful on them, especially the latter since it already abuses Lax so well. Also would be very funny to give to Chansey, since 99% of the time you're healing the foe. Biggest benefactors from the list are Magneton, who can consistently chip Chansey and Rhydon/Steelix down until it can eventually break through them with Gear Up boosts, Ninetales, who can be a menace with Fire Spin + Metal Sound, and Escavalier, who can run Substitute to avoid paralysis from Body Slam and then heal off the damage later

Move: Spirit Break
Type:

Power: 60
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15
Effect: 30% chance to paralyze the foe
Distribution::seadra::gyarados::arcanine::aerodactyl::charizard::lapras::altaria: (:hydreigon::dragonite:?)
Justification: Last second replacement here, but Spirit Break here is Dragon Breath from future gens, which is super interesting here because it would be one of two moves in the game that can paralyze both Normal and Ground-types, the other being Stun Spore, allowing Pokemon like Dragonite, Altaria, and Hydreigon to effectively spread paralysis even against switch-ins like Steelix or Rhydon. Other Pokemon appreciate this as well, albeit with more niche uses, like Aerodactyl being tied for the second fastest mon with a paralysis-causing move and Lapras being able to paralyze Chansey, which makes it more likely to beat it with Heavy Slams
 
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Yoshiblaze

ye
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Moderator
immediate double-post cuz i posted my stuff from my sandbox and forgot to add this stuff and i want people to get notifs on it woops

Two Quick Announcements!

First, as a result of the poll at the top of the thread, the upcoming roomtour will be on Saturday, August 13th! The time will likely be 4 PM EST, but please let me know if you intend on entering that time doesn't work for you

Secondly, I'd like to welcome a new member to the council: Ema Skye! They'll be helping run the mod, balancing the meta (cuz we're gonna need a lot of help with that), and ensuring the quality of future submissions.

That's all for now, see you soon!
 

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
Sub Feedback! Note that this isn't the veto post, but intended to get you thinking about your sub.

Before I start, I want to begin with one big thought I ask that you take with your subs: RBY does not need 'fixing'. It's been played for over 20 years, which I think is proof enough that it doesn't need fixing. Your subs should be more about exploring new things in the tier (I suggest looking at the RBY OMs like RBY STABmons, other RBY Pet Mods (Rose Red Iris Blue, Kanto Expansion Pak, MG1 and RBY Cap) and the Tradebacks meta to get some ideas. RBY's Discord server is a treasure trove of information, and their #pet-mods channel serves as where we discuss the mod. It's the best place to get real time feedback on your stuff or to bounce ideas off of each other (and from my experience, they are one the friendliest Discord communities).

Move: Crafty Shield
Type: Psychic
Power: --
Accuracy: --
PP: 24
Effect: While the user remains active, it becomes immune to the secondary effects of attacking moves. This effect can be removed by Haze.
Distribution: (:staryu:?) :kangaskhan: :porygon::karrablast: :scizor: :tapu_koko: :dratini: :omanyte: :pinsir: :ralts:
Justification:
Handy Body Slam immunity, helps many Pokemon become more reliable as physical walls with that annoying Body Slam paralysis chance taken away, also allows stuff like Staryu to stay in against Alakazam without fearing Psychic drops.
This is cool, however, I'm not sure how much this is going to be relevant in the meta, as many will find it challenging to slot it in their moveset, especially the Normals like Kangaskhan (since they're already immune to Body Slam). Though a Normal with high special may find value in it (Altaria?). You're looking for Pokemon with good mixed bulk that can afford the moveslot (and the turn) needed to setup this move. The challenge is that when they switch into the BSlam, they risk the para and then the move kinda becomes a dead slot. If you can find something that would use it, be sure to add it, but I'm not sure that Pokemon exists. Something like Hydreigon or Yveltal, but those are weak to Psychic so they don't want to stay in anyways. Maybe the Legendary Birds? Cloyster?

Move: Magnet Bomb
Type: Electric
Power: 130
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 5
Effect: The user faints after using this move, unless the target's substitute was broken by the damage. The target's Special is halved during damage calculation
Distribution: :jolteon: :magnemite: :geodude: :onix: :mr_mime:
Justification: Good move to bait in and remove the likes of Starmie, Cloyster and Chansey, but just like Explosion, has clear counters that can be used to play around it so it can't be spammed willy nilly.
I don't really like this. While it's not broken (Jolteon Double Kick crits can beat Chansey without saccing the Jolteon), the learnset would need to be super specific to not break the tier because it toes a fine line as it's a matchup fish move (Electrics do really well against teams lacking a Ground, this just makes it more apparent). It is kinda neat on Mr. Mime though, and its an interesting Cloyster lure for Golem.

Move: False Surrender
Type: Bug
Power: 30
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 16
Effect: This move nearly always goes first. (Quick Attack priority).
Distribution: :pinsir: :karrablast: :paras: :meowth: :drowzee: :krabby:
Justification:
Good finisher for generally slow Pokemon that can also take Psychics by surprise.
On paper, this seems a bit ridiculous, even though it's a 30BP Bug move. This allows Escavalier to operate without its biggest flaw, and it actually uses Tauros/Snorlax as setup fodder to sweep the rest of their teams. Pinsir is in a similar spot, with the option of Binding to put targets in range. Parasect's Fleur Cannon gives it a big nuke with SD. I'm generally of the opinion that this is a bit superfluous, given that the Fleur Cannon buff is a very sizeable boost for the type, and that the SD Bug mons really have no switchins aside from Moltres and Spiritomb.

Move: Flash canon
Type: Dragon
Power: 95
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15
Effect: 10% chance to lower the opponent's speed.
Distribution: :onix: :dratini: :deino: :charmander: :larvitar: :growlithe: :aerodactyl: :gyarados: :flareon: :horsea:
Justification: Dragon pulse but with an uncommon effect.
Dragon moves are kinda weird, because they are unresisted this gen and so provide perfect neutral coverage in one move. It's an upgraded Normal-type move that runs off the other attacking stat. This move has me wary for that reason. It simplifies a lot of movesets, especially with its high BP, and removes their need to run Normal coverage assuming they have good special (which most of these do). I honestly don't think there's a place for a Dragon move in this meta unless it has some drawback (like Outrage) or is low BP with a cool effect to warrant use (like Dragonbreath). A BP nerf to 80 will make this more tolerable.

Move: Beat Up
Type: Fighting
Power: 80
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15
Effect: 10% chance to lower the foe's defense
Distribution: Everything that learns submission.
Justification: Same as my previous sub.
This is a sub that I think is trying to fix something in RBY. There are good Fighting moves in RBY, they're just on awful Pokemon. High Jump Kick slices through the Normals as one of the strongest Fighting moves. Rolling Kick has phenomenal synergy with paralysis (which is on every team), creating a ~55% chance to prevent a paralyzed opponent from acting. Both are just only on a Pokemon that dies if you breath on it. As bad as Submission is, it does find niche value on some things (not so much now with Heavy Slam in this tier on things like Poliwrath, or on Gengar to lure Chansey to KO it with Explosion). Fighting's flaw is its defensive profile: it has no defensive value outside of Rock Slide/Snarl switches and most teams have two or three mons that resist its STAB with a move to hit it super effectively. A move won't fix that, no matter how good it is, and so I think this meta needs to think about how to design a Pokemon to work around those defensive limitations. This added effect is the cherry on top, and the 10% chance to secure the 2HKO is rather meta warping (bringing in a Fighting resist that gets hit by a defense drop usually means Hyper Beam now KOs), so a different effect is needed. This will be vetoed under its current iteration.

Also, please post the distribution and justification from your old sub so that we don't have to look back to reference it. Saves us some time which is appreciated.

Move: Disarming voice
Type: Bug
Power: 75
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15
Effect: 10% chance to confuse the opponent
Distribution: All bug types + :zubat: :jigglypuff: :ralts:
Justification: Literally signal beam and bugs deserve an actual move.
Same thing with False Surrender. We have an actual Bug move (Fleur Cannon), and its kind of insane. Bug isn't terrible, it just has terrible Pokemon. We actually had to nerf Scizor (a Bug/Fighting mon) because its movepool and stats were too much for the tier to switch into. Bug's problem in RBY are the Pokemon: two Bugs are Poison (a type that actively makes the Pokemon worse defensively), three have no Bug STAB and the last has 30 speed (one of our FutureProofing bugs is even slower!). Design a good Bug type and things can fall into place, otherwise you're designing tools that aren't really needed (Pinsir is almost OU viable without Bug STAB and this probably breaks it. Scyther might be in a similar spot.). Lastly, both Yoshi and I are really not fans of RNG based side effects like confusion and would appreciate a different added effect.

Move: Fiery Wrath
Type:

Power: --
Accuracy: 90%
PP: 15
Effect: Burns the foe
Distribution::moltres::arcanine::ninetales::gardevoir::spiritomb::charizard::rapidash::magmar::weezing::whimsicott::mew: (:gengar:?)
Justification: Burn is pretty awful in Gen 1, so having a move that just does that is pretty unimpressive, but burn still has some merit, notably neutering Tauros in case a lot of your team gets paralyzed, which makes it absolutely certain that it can't clean up, and being able to burn physical attackers that are immune to Thunder Wave or don't care about being slower like Steelix, Rhydon, and Snorlax. Just be careful using it so you don't accidentally burn a Chansey
Very interesting idea! I am a little wary of it as a panic button on fast mons like Whims/Gar, but it's burn (which is bad) and it needs applications to warrant using. I'm not sure what all you would actually want burned other than Tauros (who you'd also want to paralyze), as paralysis has more universal application. I imagine we'll keep hashing this out on the discord.

Move: Metal Sound
Type:

Power: --
Accuracy: --
PP: 10
Effect: Shares HP of user and target equally. (Pain Split effect)
Distribution::magneton::weezing::ninetales::chansey::escavalier:(:gardevoir:?)
Justification: (Resub) First things first, the flavor for this is that both Pokemon are subjected to a grating noise and thus they share the pain. Flimsy for sure, but it's there. Anyway, Pain Split is a super powerful effect in a generation dominated by two high HP Pokemon, essentially being a Super Fang against Chansey and Snorlax sometimes. This is huge for Special Attackers that'd otherwise struggle to break through Chansey and weaker attackers that can't KO Snorlax through its Rests and Reflects. Also provides an alternative form of recovery, making bringing Lax and Chansey in dangerous. However, with such a powerful effect, we do have to be very careful with what gets it, so I opted for lower ranked/unranked mons that are mostly Physical Attackers, leaving out some future gen Pain Split users like Starmie, Gengar, and Spiritomb since it could be too powerful on them, especially the latter since it already abuses Lax so well. Also would be very funny to give to Chansey, since 99% of the time you're healing the foe. Biggest benefactors from the list are Magneton, who can consistently chip Chansey and Rhydon/Steelix down until it can eventually break through them with Gear Up boosts, Ninetales, who can be a menace with Fire Spin + Metal Sound, and Escavalier, who can run Substitute to avoid paralysis from Body Slam and then heal off the damage later
I'm not sure where this fits in the meta. Obviously the big thing is that it has PP equal to Softboiled for stalling Chansey, but I think Chansey stalls you out faster. That said, I think Jynx right now is showing why giving special breakers tools to break Chansey easily is kind of a problem, because nothing else really walls the onslaught of special breakers if Chansey is easy to remove. I feel like right now we should be working on preserving Chansey's place in the meta.

Move: Spirit Break
Type:

Power: 60
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15
Effect: Lowers the foe's Attack by 1 stage
Distribution::dragonite::seadra::gyarados::arcanine::aerodactyl::charizard::lapras::altaria: (:hydreigon:?)
Justification: Might scrap this, but for now, this is a counterpart to Snarl, a physical move that lowers Special, being a special move that lowers Attack. Obviously Snarl has a stronger effect since it essentially lowers two stats, but Spirit Break is still a nice deterrent to physical attackers while not having to status them with Fire moves, allowing you to both paralyze them and cripple their Attack stat. Also, it's a STAB move for Dragonite, but I doubt it uses it. Arcanine and Aerodactyl having both Spirit Break and Snarl is funny
I'm not quite sure where this fits in the meta. I know I mentioned with Flash Cannon that Dragon moves are kinda weird, and both Dragon moves here are opposites of each other. I don't think most of the Pokemon that get the move would use it (Seadra/Arcanine are bad; they need coverage for Waters and Double-Edge actually outdamages Spirit Break on both of them. The rest don't have the moveslots to afford it.) Hydreigon could likely use it, but it becomes too annoying to break with Twave + Recover and so probably won't get it. I feel like the potential for the effect is definitely here, but I'm not sure if we have the Pokemon that could use this yet (maybe on some Bugs since they come in on the Normal's EQ).

Subs close in about 48 hours. See you then, and then on Saturday for the tour!
 
Move: Crafty Shield
Type:

Power: -
Accuracy: -
PP: 24
Effect: Bounces back status moves. +1 Priority. (Magic Coat)
Distribution: :alakazam: :chansey: :clefable: :electrode: :escavalier: :gardevoir: :gengar: :hydreigon: :hypno: :jynx: :mew: :mewtwo: :mr-mime: :parasect: :persian: :slowbro: :spiritomb: :starmie: :tentacruel: :wigglytuff: :yveltal:
Justification: Magic coat go hard

Move: King's Shield
Type:

Power: -
Accuracy: -
PP: 16
Effect: Prevents moves (including status) from effecting the user this turn. Doesn't fail. +4 Priority.
Distribution: Universal
Justification: Funny mg1 move go hard

Move: Switcheroo
Type:

Power: -
Accuracy: -
PP: 16
Effect: Swaps this move with the last move used for the rest of the battle.
Distribution: :alakazam: :arbok: :clefable: :gardevoir: :gengar: :parasect: :persian: :slowbro: :yveltal:
Justification: Finally, good mimic
 
I saw that my baby’s shitty and I’m too impatient for it to be fixed by mods so I’m fixing it myself

Whimsicott Buff Part 1

Lash Out: 95 BP, 15 PP, Grass, 10% chance of lowering the target’s speed,:Whimsicott: :Parasect: :Venusaur: :Victreebel: :Vileplume: :Yveltal: :Tangela: :Nidoking: :Nidoqueen:
Justification: Decent fucking Grass move, also it’s like vines lashing out and that’s cool

Whimsicott Buff Part 2

Sunsteel Strike: 40 BP, 30 PP, Fire, Priority, :Arcanine: :Ninetales: :Rapidash: :Charizard: :Moltres: :Magmar: :Whimsicott: :Poliwrath::electabuzz:
Justification: Makes Fire mons better serve as leads

Whimsicott Buff Part 3 (kinda)

Crafty Shield: it’s protect, give it to everyone
Justification: it’s protect, give it to everyone

Enjoy this meta-defining bullshit, more Sneasel coming soon
 
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Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
Veto post time! Subs are closed.

We do have a unique situation to address before we vote.

Crafty Shield: it’s protect, give it to everyone
Justification: it’s protect, give it to everyone

Enjoy this meta-defining bullshit, more Sneasel coming soon
Move: King's Shield
Type:

Power: -
Accuracy: -
PP: 16
Effect: Prevents moves (including status) from effecting the user this turn. Doesn't fail. +4 Priority.
Distribution: Universal
Justification: Funny mg1 move go hard
These moves are identical and so one of them needs to be changed. Either of you can change your sub to something else, but these two need to be different. After 24 hours if neither is changed, Redwood's Crafty Shield will be vetoed.

Gonna give 24 hours to fix this and we will start voting after tomorrow's tour!
 

Yoshiblaze

ye
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
The roomtour happened today! It wasn't much of a roomtour, just a Bo3 between two players, but if you wanna see what happened, you can see the replays below:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen1futureproofing-11
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen1futureproofing-12


With that, voting starts now!

Just like Pokémon slates, we will have a ranked vote for each category, meaning that each submission you vote for receives points based on how you rank them. The submission with the most points in each category will be added to the metagame.

We're gonna start dynamically changing how many subs you can vote for per category to adjust for a lack of subs in any categroy. So, for this slate, you may vote for up to 3 subs in the Dark and Steel categories and 2 in the Fairy category. You may vote for your own sub in each category, but you can't vote for it in first place or as your only vote. If multiple people submitted the same move in the same category, please specify the submission you're voting for by putting the submitter's username next to it

Voting Example
If you vote for 3 Move
Dark
Move A - Gets 3 points
Move B - Gets 2 points
Move C - Gets 1 point

If you vote for 2 Move
Dark
Move A - Gets 2 points
Move B - Gets 1 point

If you vote for 1 Move
Dark
Move A - Gets 1 point
Dark
Dark Move A
Dark Move B
Dark Move C

Steel
Steel Move A
Steel Move B
Steel Move C

Fairy
Fairy Move A
Fairy Move B
Fairy Move C

For each category, you may vote for 3 submissions. You may vote for your own submission in every category, but if can't be your only vote in that category or you're first place vote. For example:
Dark
Move A (SV)

Would be an illegal ballot, but

Dark
Move B
Move A (SV)
Move C

Would be legal

Each Move you vote for in each category also has to be in the same category, so the following would be illegal
Dark
Dark Move A (SV)
Fairy Move B
Steel Move C

But this would be legal
Dark
Dark Move A (SV)
Dark Move B
Dark Move C

The only sub that's vetoed this time around is Redwood Rogue's Crafty Shield for reasons explained above

Voting will end in 24 hours
 

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
Fairy: Crafty Shield, Play Rough
Dark: Lash Out, Nasty Plot, Fiery Wrath
Steel: Sunsteel Strike, Meltdown, Metal Sound
 
Dark: Fiery wrath, Lash out, Hone claws (SV)
Steel: Metal sound, Iron defense (SV), sunsteel strike
Fairy: Crafity sheild, Spirit break, Disarming voice (SV)
 
Dark: Hone Claws, Switcheroo, Nasty Plot
Steel: Sunsteel Strike, King's Shield, Metal Sound
Fairy: Spirit Break, Crafty Shield
 
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Yoshiblaze

ye
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Moderator
Dark: Switcheroo, Fiery Wrath (SV), Nasty Plot
Steel: Meltdown, Iron Defense, Metal Sound (SV)
Fairy: Crafty Shield, Spirit Break (SV)
 

Yoshiblaze

ye
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Moderator
couple hours late oops

Dark:
Lash Out - 3 + 2 + 2 = 7
Nasty Plot - 2 + 1 + 1 = 4
Fiery Wrath - 1 + 3 + 2 = 6
Hone Claws - 1 + 3 = 4
Switcheroo - 2 + 3 = 5

Steel:
Sunsteel Strike - 3 + 1 + 3 = 7
Meltdown - 2 + 3 = 5
Metal Sound - 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 6
Iron Defense - 2 + 2 = 4
King's Shield - 2 = 2

Fairy:
Crafty Shield - 2 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 7
Play Rough - 1 = 1
Spirit Break - 1 + 2 + 1 = 4


Welcome Lash Out, Sunsteel Strike, and Crafty Shield to metagame! I've seen some interest in having more move slates recently, so that may be in the cards later, but for now, this is all the new moves in the metagame!

Now, we'll have a 24 hour Discussion Phase to finalize the distributions of these moves

That's all for now, see you tomorrow!
 

Yoshiblaze

ye
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
I come with announcements!

First, here's the final distribution of the winners of the move slate
Lash Out: :Tangela::Lickitung::Bellsprout::Dratini::Deino::Bulbasaur::Ekans::Pinsir::Persian::Gyarados::Mew:

Sunsteel Strike: :Growlithe::Charmander::Flareon::Magmar::Vulpix::Ponyta::Spiritomb:

Crafty Shield: :Clefairy::Jigglypuff::Magnemite::Drowzee::Voltorb::Mr. Mime::Ralts::Porygon::Mew::Mewtwo:

Secondly, we have a couple buffs!
- :weezing: Strange Steam will now be a 70 BP move that uses the user's Special Attack instead of Attack in damage calculation - This allows many of the Poison-types that learn it like Hydreigon, Venusaur, and Tentacruel to use their higher SpA stat to power this physical move. Golduck can also use it as a way to break through Chansey with Amnesia sets and beat opposing Amnesia users, which is cool even if it's probably still worse than Poliwrath in this role
- :escavalier: Escavalier's Speed will be increased from 20 to 60 - This guarantees the crit on Slash, just barely giving Escavalier the strongest Slash in the game (about 1% stronger than Persian's), and allows it to Substitute up on Snorlax, which was already its main niche. Should be a MUCH more threatening mon now

Next, we have a couple much need nerfs:
- :jynx: Jynx will lose Fake Tears - Fake Tears made an already annoying Pokemon even more annoying as it's a nightmare to switch into, so this reverts it back to how it was before
- :tapu koko: Hydreigon and Tapu Koko will lose Recover and gain Soft-Boiled - This slight nerf just makes these two easier to deal with in the long run. Koko can no longer outstall Snorlax with recover, making its weak Attacking stats more of a weakness, while Hydreigon becomes easier to break through in the long run
- :yveltal: Yveltal's Special will be lowered from 131 to 98 - Yveltal is extremely fat, so even with its horrible typing, it could be a pain to take down. This Special nerf will make it a lot easier for moves like Psychic or Blizzard to break through it


And that's all for now. After some discussion with council, we've decided to take a one week pause in slates to promote more playtesting before we move on to the next Pokemon slate. The pause may be longer depending on if we feel we need more time. After that, we'll likely have more balance changes, potentially some resources, and the next Pokemon slate will open.

See you then!
 

Yoshiblaze

ye
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
It's been almost one week, so it's time for slates to start up again. But first, I'm gonna put down some things that we learned during playtesting that we'd like some thoughts on before proceeding on any more tiering action
-:tapu koko: Tapu Koko feels a bit too powerful as of right now thanks to its Speed tier and support movepool. The combination of Nature's Madness, Thunder Wave, and Soft-Boiled allow Koko to be an absolute nuisance to teams, since most teams still run the Big 3 and thus half of your team is threatened by Koko at all times, even with Heavy Slam being very weak, and most checks hate TWave or Nature's Madness. Soft-Boiled is also big for Koko, as it allows it to come in and out often to use Nature's Madness and TWave and threatening the Big 3 for the whole game despite its poor typing. However, Koko does have a lot of checks in the form of recovery Psychics, Hydreigon, and Flying-types like Yveltal, so it might not be broken per say, just that its presence may make teams stray away from the Big 3 model, which we have to decide if that's a good or bad thing. After the nerf from Recover to Soft-Boiled proved ineffective, we're considering removing Soft-Boiled, as the complete lack of recovery makes Koko a lot easier to deal with in the long run without it ravaging a team with Madness and TWave. Other options could be to just remove TWave or even Nature's Madness, as insane as removing its signature move would be
- :yveltal: Yveltal is another potential concern, as even with the Special nerf it just got, it's still exceptionally bulky and still able to dish out lots of damage solely due to Steel Wing being a great move and Yveltal's 131 Attack stat. Yveltal does have some counterplay even considering the risk of Steel Wing Defense drops, like Tyranitar, Skarmory, Steelix, Cloyster, and Zapdos, but it would feel a lot more comfortable to check if Steel Wing Defense drops weren't a factor, since super common Pokemon like Starmie, Reflect Chansey, and Reflect Snorlax could take it on. Thus, we're considering doing something about Steel Wing to nerf Yveltal. This could mean either removing Steel Wing from its movepool or getting rid of the Defense drop effect (though this would nerf other Steel Wing users, namely Altaria). Other options include further nerfing Yveltal's stats, though this would conflict with Yveltal's concept of being a statstick
- :escavalier: Escavalier needs more testing, but we probably did go overboard with the Speed buff. While 60 is the minimum for guaranteed crits on Slash, considering Escavalier's other qualities, it probably didn't need that much Speed. I would like to see it in action more before doing anything, but I personally think that it should at least be slower than Chansey
- :parasect: Fleur Cannon has been brought up many times as a possible concern, though in practice the move hasn't been able to do much. I believe that the above 3 are more pressing issues right now, but Fleur Cannon will be on our radar, especially since the presence of Yveltal and Koko contribute to Fleur Cannon being less of a concern right now, though it's worth noting that other healthier additions contribute to this as well, like Spiritomb and Skarmory
- :alakazam: Certain moves could potentially be redistributed to better Pokemon now that we have more of an idea of where they fit into the metagame, the main one by far being Crafty Shield since, I have to admit, its suggested distribution was gutted for a niche at best move.
- :tauros::snorlax::chansey: In the meta overall, it feels like the Big 3 are still very highly recommended, but not absolutely required as multiple factors have nerfed them. While this was very likely to happen anyway because we're adding so much, in my opinion doing our best to preserve the dominance of the Big 3 makes jumping into the metagame much easier for both newcomers and RBY veterans alike, so if we recognize why the Big 3 are potentially worse now, we can patch up those problems so they don't get worse later. Like I said, they still feel like top tier Pokemon, just less than before, especially Chansey and Tauros, with the former not liking the influx of bulky physical attackers that abuse non-Reflect sets and the latter not liking multiple bulky Pokemon that stop it from cleaning as easily and both them getting absolutely bodied by Koko. Snorlax is more or less in the same spot as it was before, just being a bit annoyed by stuff like Heavy Slam users, Escavalier, and Steel Wing users
With that, let's start slate 9!

-------------------------------------

- Pokémon Slate 5 -

This slate is a Pokemon Slate, where you can add any future gen Dark, Steel, and Fairy-type Pokémon to the metagame!
Rules (Also on the OP)
- During Pokemon slates, you will sub any future generation Dark, Steel, or Fairy-type Pokemon and adapt it into a Gen 1 environment by changing their typing, stats, and movepool.
- You are allowed to sub 1 Pokemon of each type during the slate. You must specify which voting category your Pokemon fits into (as denoted on the submission template below), which covers for cases like Bisharp or Grimmsnarl, who have multiple future typings.
- When subbing Pokemon, you will change their typing (obviously), as well as their stats and movepools. Movepools are based on their current generation movepools, automatically including any move they learn that exists in Gen 1 + any moves added to the mod through Move Slates that they already learn (keep this in mind if you sub anything that learns Snarl, Steel Wing, or Strange Steam).
- Pokemon subs can be vetoed if they are broken, so try to stay in OU's power level. This especially important for Slate 1 as we don't want to change the power level of the metagame that much so early.
- Eligible Pokemon from Legends: Arceus can be submitted, including Qwilfish-Hisui, Overqwil, Sliggo-Hisui, Goodra-Hisui, and Enamorus.
- Future Gen Pokemon who have a Mega Evolution that give them one of the eligible types are allowed to be subbed as their base form. This allows you to sub Altaria and Audino as Fairies.
- To decide what gets added to the metagame, we'll use a non-ranked vote. Whichever sub gets the most votes in each category will win and get added to the metagame, giving us ~3 new Pokemon each slate and ~30 new Pokemon throughout the mod.
- Any prevolutions of the Pokemon you sub that win will automatically be added. Their stats, typing, and movepools will be decided by council based on your winning sub, so you do not have to include these with your submission.
- Submissions for Pokemon slates last 5 days, with 1 day of voting and 1 day of a discussion phase

Pokémon: (The name of the Pokemon you're submitting. It must be an existing Pokemon from a future generation)
Category: (The category you're submitting to, being either Dark, Steel, or Fairy. It must be one of the typings it has in the current generation)
New Type: (The type of the Pokemon you're submitting. You can only use the types that exist in Gen 1)
Stats: (The stats of the Pokemon. Remember that Gen 1 only has 5 stats because Special Attack and Special Defense are the same stat.)
New Moves: (Any new moves you're giving to the Pokemon you're submitting. Remember that the Pokemon's base movepool is based on what moves it currently learns that exist in Gen 1. To find a Pokemon's base movepool, use the command /ms [pokemon], gen1, natdex, all in any Showdown chat)
Removed Moves: (Any moves you're removing from the Pokemon's base movepool. Remember that the Pokemon's base movepool is based on what moves it currently learns that exist in Gen 1, use the command /ms [pokemon], gen1, natdex, all in any Showdown chat)
Competitive Overview: (A brief competitive description of the Pokemon you're submitting, what it does in the metagame, and why you think it should be added.)

Blank Template
Pokémon:
Category:
New Type:
Stats:
New Moves:
Removed Moves:
Competitive Overview:

Submissions will tentatively end in 5 days
 

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
:guzzlord:
Pokémon: Guzzlord
Category: Dark
New Type: Water/Dragon
Stats: 213/101/43/53/43 (453)
New Moves: Crabhammer
Removed Moves:
Competitive Overview: funny no weakness mon with decent bulk. Amnesia + Fire Blast could be ok, but probably difficult to justify due to Crabhammer ignoring Amnesia boosts.

Amnesia, Bite, Body Slam, Double Team, Dragon Rage, Earthquake, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Hyper Beam, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Rest, Rock Slide, Stomp, Substitute, Thrash, Toxic / Crabhammer


Guzzlord
- Crabhammer
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Rest


:ferrothorn:
Pokémon: Ferrothorn
Category: Steel
New Type: Grass
Stats: 74/94/131/116/20 (435)
New Moves: Lash Out
Removed Moves:
Competitive Overview: like a souped up Tangela without a sleep move. Thunder Wave + Explosion is a big niche on its own, and Thunderbolt even gives it a tool for Yveltal.

Cut, Double Team, Explosion, Flash, Harden, Hyper Beam, Leech Seed, Pin Missile, Rest, Self-Destruct, Solar Beam, Strength, Substitute, Swords Dance, Tackle, Thunder, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt, Toxic / Lash Out


Ferrothorn
- Thunder Wave
- Explosion
- Lash Out
- Thunderbolt / Rest


:mawile:
Pokémon: Mawile
Category: Fairy
New Type: Ground/Normal
Stats: 70/95/95/65/70 [395]
New Moves: Glare, Bind, Earthquake
Removed Moves: Ice Punch, Ice Beam, Rock Slide, Sing, Super Fang, Thunder Punch, Swords Dance
Competitive Overview: Was talking with May on Discord about Glare Onix from beta RBY and so I made this. Generally paraimmune due to TWave and paraslam immune, and spreads para of its own through Glare. Bind gives it extra utility as a pivot to cover its paralysis options.

Bite, Body Slam, Counter, Double Team, Double-Edge, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Growl, Headbutt, Hyper Beam, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Mimic, Rest, Seismic Toss, Slam, Solar Beam, Strength, Substitute, Toxic, Vise Grip / Glare, Bind, Earthquake


Mawile
- Glare
- Earthquake
- Bind
- Body Slam / Hyper Beam
 
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resub

:ss/duraludon:
Pokémon: Duraludon
Category: Steel
New Type: Rock / Dragon
Stats: 70 / 95 / 95 / 110 / 85
New Moves: Earthquake, Ice Beam, Flamethrower
Removed Moves: Thunder Wave
Competitive Overview: swords dance sweeper, having sadly its two STABs be Snarl and Rock Slide, wich arent too bad since its offensive stats are good, and its defensive stats as well. it has alright coverage in ice, electric and fire, and earthquake if you go solely physical. Heavy Slam also gos off its defense stat, wich hits 95, wich is quite nice. Slash probably wouldn't be much useful, but it gets that.
 
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:ss/obstagoon:
Pokémon: Obstagoon
Category: Dark
New Type: Fighting / Normal
Stats: 83 / 90 / 91 / 60 / 95 (419 BST)
New Moves: Heavy Slam
Removed Moves: Low Kick, Snarl, Lash Out, Thunder Wave
Competitive Overview: Obstagoon is able to challenge Tauros, while unlike Tapu Koko and Scizor, not being vulnerable to paralysis from its Body Slam. Heavy Slam threatens a 2HKO on Tauros, who can do relatively little in return. However, Obstagoon is a fair bit weaker with its own Hyper Beams and Body Slams, and it suffers from a poor Special and a weakness to Psychic.

:ss/melmetal:
Pokémon: Melmetal
Category: Steel
New Type: Electric / Poison
Stats: 95 / 123 / 123 / 75 / 34 (450 BST)
New Moves: Sludge, Gear Up
Removed Moves: Self-Destruct, Ice Beam, Thunder Wave, Heavy Slam
Competitive Overview: Incredible stats and physical bulk, but you're double weak to Earthquake and your mediocre Special and Psychic weakness means you need to watch your back. Gear Up is nice, but you're so slow it's risky.

:ss/alcremie:
Pokémon: Alcremie
Category: Fairy
New Type: Normal / Ice
Stats: 75 / 60 / 75 / 121 / 64 (395 BST)
New Moves: Ice Beam, Blizzard, Mega Drain
Removed Moves: Fake Tears, Recover
Competitive Overview: Stats are just okay, but a very nice typing (something that would never again be said of Normal / Ice), high Special, and access to Acid Armor should let Alcremie carve out a niche. Mind the Fighting-types though.
 
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fuck you sneasel’s back
:bw/Sneasel:
Pokémon: Sneasel
Category: Dark
New Type: Ice
Stats:
55 HP / 95 Atk / 55 Def / 75 Spc / 115 Spe (395 BST)
New Moves: Lick, Night Shade
Removed Moves: Everything from later gens
Competitive Overview: They say that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, but I actually changed something this time. I underestimated the capacity Sneasel could have with its initial role in a meta with fewer mons and no Special split. With an 95 and 75 in offensive stats, you may not think too much of it at first, but its 115 in Speed allows for some funny Slash shenanigans, and a STAB Blizzard’s nothing to sneeze at. Note that the mon would also be the fastest SD user, outspeeding Tauros, and could potentially Surf against Rhydon, although Blizzard just be better idk.

*unregionals your stunfisk*
:swsh/stunfisk-Galar:
Pokémon: Stunfisk-Galar
Category: Steel
New Type: Ground / Electric
Stats: 99 HP / 101 Atk / 99 Def / 75 Spc / 52 Spe (426 HP)
New Moves: Thunderbolt, Thunder, Thunder Punch, Conversion
Removed Moves: Later gens
Competitive Overview: Electric type physical wall? In my Gen 1? it's more likely than you think. I'm still genuinely surprised at the amount of times Gunfisk was subbed but never once in its original typing. Just click EQ against most mons, especially Rhydon, but consider mixing it up with some Electric moves on a decent Spc stat. Decently checked by Dugtrio, and shouldn't be switched in against Starmie.

KEYS KEYS KEYS KEYS
:swsh/klefki:
Pokémon:
Klefki (W.I.P.)
Category: Fairy
New Type:
Rock / Ghost
Stats:
New Moves:
Confuse Ray, Lick, Snarl, Rock Slide, Rock Throw, Wrap
Removed Moves: later gens, Psychic
Competitive Overview:
 
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:ss/hoopa-unbound:
Pokémon: Hoopa-Unbound
Category: Dark
New Type:

Stats: 30 / 255 / 50 / 255 / 90 [680 BST]
New Moves: Dragon Rage, Lick, Seismic Toss
Removed Moves: Thunder Wave, Hyper Beam, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch
Competitive Overview: Yveltal needs their bestie hoopa-u in the metagame
Confusion, Double Team, Dragon Rage, Dream Eater, Flash, Lick, Light Screen, Psybeam, Psychic, Reflect, Rest, Seismic Toss, Substitute, Taunt, Thunderbolt, Toxic
 

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
hullo sub review time

resub

:ss/duraludon:
Pokémon: Duraludon
Category: Steel
New Type: Rock / Dragon
Stats: 70 / 95 / 115 / 110 / 85
New Moves: Earthquake, Ice Beam, Flamethrower
Removed Moves: Thunder Wave
Competitive Overview: swords dance sweeper, having sadly its two STABs be Snarl and Rock Slide, wich arent too bad since its offensive stats are good, and its defensive stats as well. it has alright coverage in ice, electric and fire, and earthquake if you go solely physical. Heavy Slam also gos off its highest stat, defense, wich hits 115, wich is quite nice. Slash probably wouldn't be much useful, but it gets that.
cool mon. interesting movepool. heavy slam calcs are a little crazy so i would suggest lowering defense to 95 to not completely nuke Chansey.

:ss/obstagoon:
Pokémon: Obstagoon
Category: Dark
New Type: Fighting / Normal
Stats: 93 / 90 / 101 / 60 / 95 (439 BST)
New Moves: Heavy Slam
Removed Moves: Low Kick, Snarl, Lash Out
Competitive Overview: Obstagoon is able to challenge Tauros, while unlike Tapu Koko and Scizor, not being vulnerable to paralysis from its Body Slam. Heavy Slam threatens a 2HKO on Tauros, who can do relatively little in return. However, Obstagoon is a fair bit weaker with its own Hyper Beams and Body Slams, and it suffers from a poor Special and a weakness to Psychic.
Slash needs to go as its way too strong off of this attack. The movepool is also pretty insane with Thunder Wave, Ice Beam, and it's a bulkier Tauros. I would say Thunder Wave and Slash need to go and drop HP/Def by 10, and we might be able to keep it around.

:ss/melmetal:
Pokémon: Melmetal
Category: Steel
New Type: Electric / Poison
Stats: 125 / 133 / 133 / 75 / 34 (500 BST)
New Moves: Sludge, Gear Up
Removed Moves: Self-Destruct
Competitive Overview: Incredible stats and physical bulk, but you're double weak to Earthquake and your mediocre Special and Psychic weakness means you need to watch your back. If you can manage that, Melmetal is a good paralysis spreader, carries a potent Heavy Slam, and can switch in on Steel Wing and threaten out even Zapdos and Dragonite thanks to Ice Beam. Gear Up is nice, but you're so slow it's risky.
This is broken in pretty much every sense of the word, and I really don't think there's a way to fix it without completely redoing the mon. Its bulk is astronomical in the tier. I would say HP needs to drop by about 30 points, defense by 10, and Ice Beam, Thunder Wave and Heavy Slam need to go.

:ss/alcremie:
Pokémon: Alcremie
Category: Fairy
New Type: Normal / Ice
Stats: 75 / 60 / 75 / 121 / 64 (395 BST)
New Moves: Growth, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Mega Drain
Removed Moves: Fake Tears
Competitive Overview: Stats are just okay, but a very nice typing (something that would never again be said of Normal / Ice), high Special that can be boosted with Growth, and access to Acid Armor and Recover should let Alcremie carve out a niche. Mind the Fighting-types though.
This is the best defensive typing in the game, and 121 special with Recover and Growth makes it pretty much invincible once it gets going. Recover and Growth need to go.

fuck you sneasel’s back
:bw/Sneasel:
Pokémon: Sneasel
Category: Dark
New Type: Ice
Stats:
55 HP / 95 Atk / 55 Def / 75 Spc / 115 Spe (395 BST)
New Moves: Lick, Night Shade
Removed Moves: Everything from later gens
Competitive Overview: They say that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, but I actually changed something this time. I underestimated the capacity Sneasel could have with its initial role in a meta with fewer mons and no Special split. With an 95 and 75 in offensive stats, you may not think too much of it at first, but its 115 in Speed allows for some funny Slash shenanigans, and a STAB Blizzard’s nothing to sneeze at.
special is a little too high here. drop it by about 10 points so it doesn't completely demolish gengar with a crit

:ss/hoopa-unbound:
Pokémon: Hoopa-Unbound
Category: Dark
New Type:

Stats: 30 / 255 / 50 / 255 / 90 [680 BST]
New Moves: Dragon Rage, Lick, Seismic Toss
Removed Moves: Thunder Wave, Hyper Beam, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch
Competitive Overview: Yveltal needs their bestie hoopa-u in the metagame
Confusion, Double Team, Dragon Rage, Dream Eater, Flash, Lick, Light Screen, Psybeam, Psychic, Reflect, Rest, Seismic Toss, Substitute, Taunt, Thunderbolt, Toxic
no
 

Yoshiblaze

ye
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
forgot to make subs oops

:rs/cacturne:
Pokémon: Cacturne
Category: Dark
New Type:

Stats: 70/70/90/80/80
New Moves: Amnesia, Lash Out, Mega Drain, Thunderbolt, Stun Spore, Poison Powder
Removed Moves: Low Kick, Swords Dance, Thunder Punch
Competitive Overview: Amnesia user that isn't Snorlax or a Water-type. Wow!
Cacturne
Ability: None
- Lash Out
- Thunderbolt / Stun Spore
- Amnesia
- Rest
Absorb, Acid, Body Slam, Counter, Cut, Disable, Double Team, Double-Edge, Growth, Headbutt, Hyper Beam, Leech Seed, Leer, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Mimic, Pin Missile, Poison Sting, Rest, Sand Attack, Seismic Toss, Solar Beam, Strength, Substitute, Toxic, Stun Spore, Poison Powder, Amnesia, Lash Out, Mega Drain, Thunderbolt


:dp/magnezone:
Pokémon: Magnezone
Category: Steel
New Type:

Stats: 70/70/105/130/60
New Moves: Magneton's movepool + Heavy Slam, Body Slam, Flash
Removed Moves: N/A
Competitive Overview: Magneton's concept done kinda right. 130 Spc with TBolt and 105 Def with Heavy Slam and TWave all make Magnezone decently tough to switch into, plus it has the option to use Gear Up to really have fun, but it's walled forever by Rhydon (even with Heavy Slam), Steelix, Rest Jolteon, Hydreigon, and Exeggutor. Even Reflect Chansey deals with it if it switches in on TBolt or TWave.
Magnezone
Ability: None
- Thunderbolt
- Heavy Slam
- Thunder Wave
- Rest / Gear Up


:bw/audino:
Pokémon: Audino
Category: Fairy
New Type:

Stats: 103/60/86/86/50
New Moves: Aurora Beam, Haze, Crafty Shield
Removed Moves: Amneisa, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Reflect, Low Kick
Competitive Overview: Pretty weak (only being stronger than Cloyster) but bulky Ice-type, can sit on other Ice-types (after Jynx puts something to sleep of course) and use TWave + insane coverage to make progress.
Audino
Ability: None
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt / Psychic
- Rest
Blizzard, Body Slam, Dig, Double Team, Double-Edge, Dream Eater, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Growl, Hyper Beam, Ice Beam, Light Screen, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Pound, Psychic, Rest, Solar Beam, Substitute, Surf, Take Down, Thunder, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt, Toxic, Aurora Beam, Haze, Crafty Shield
 
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:umbreon:
Pokémon: Umbreon
Category: Dark
New Type: Poison
Stats: 60 HP, 110 ATK, 65 DEF, 65 SPC, 130 SPE
New Moves: Poison powder, Acid, Sludge, Hypnosis and Sword dance.
Removed Moves: Growth & non gen 1 moves.
Competitive Overview: If Jolteon and Vaporeon weren't enough to give Flareon inferioty complex then Umbreon kills any kind of dignity it had left, the moon stone eeveelution has the worst typing in the game yet manages to have niche in the RBY metagame, Umbreon is the FASTEST pokemon with hypnosis, sword dance AND taunt while also having a +100 attack on top.

-Sludge/Body slam/Hyper beam
-Double kick/Snarl
-Hypnosis
-Sword dance/Headbutt/Taunt

Umbreon can be extremely annoying to fight against with its surprisingly decent movepool and stats, however, don't forget that it's a frail poison type and most of its sets get walled by Ghosts or ground types.

:lucario:
Pokémon: Lucario
Category: Steel
New Type: Fighting
Stats: 70 HP, 110 ATK, 70 DEF, 80 SPC, 90 SPE
New Moves: Meditate
Removed Moves: Elemental punches, Sword dance and Everything post gen 1.
Competitive Overview: What is there to say about Lucario? It's the second fastest fighting type, has the second highest attack out of them, has decent bulky, good movepool, stab Hi jump kick and set up moves.
Lucario is the best fighting type in the game bar none.

-Hi jump kick
-Body slam/Hyper beam/Rock slide
-Earthquake
-Agility/meditate

:hatterene:
Pokémon: Hatterene
Category: Fairy
New Type: Poison/Psychic
Stats: 95 HP, 55 ATK, 95 DEF, 125 SPC, 35 SPE
New Moves: Lovely kiss, strange stream & Mega drain.
Removed Moves: Everything post gen 1.
Competitive Overview: Hatterene is kinda of like Exeggutor, both are slow bulky psychics that can spread status and 4x bug weakness, the difference is that Hatterene trades speed, attack and grass typing for a ground weakness and psychic neutrality...

-Psychic
-Strange stream/Mega drain
-Lovely kiss
-Thunder wave
 
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Yoshiblaze

ye
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Voting starts now!

We will have a ranked vote for each category, meaning that each submission you vote for receives points based on how you rank them. The submission with the most points in each category will be added to the metagame.

You may vote for up to 3 subs in each category. You may vote for your own sub in each category, but you can't vote for it in first place or as your only vote. If multiple people submitted the same Pokémon in the same category, please specify the submission you're voting for by putting the submitter's username next to it

Voting Example
If you vote for 3 Pokémon
Dark
Pokémon A - Gets 3 points
Pokémon B - Gets 2 points
Pokémon C - Gets 1 point

If you vote for 2 Pokémon
Dark
Pokémon A - Gets 2 points
Pokémon B - Gets 1 point

If you vote for 1 Pokémon
Dark
Pokémon A - Gets 1 point
Dark
Dark Pokémon A
Dark Pokémon B
Dark Pokémon C

Steel
Steel Pokémon A
Steel Pokémon B
Steel Pokémon C

Fairy
Fairy Pokémon A
Fairy Pokémon B
Fairy Pokémon C

For each category, you may vote for 3 submissions. You may vote for your own submission in every category, but if can't be your only vote in that category or you're first place vote. For example:
Dark
Pokémon A (SV)

Would be an illegal ballot, but

Dark
Pokémon B
Pokémon A (SV)
Pokémon C

Would be legal

Each Pokémon you vote for in each category also has to be in the same category, so the following would be illegal
Dark
Dark Pokémon A (SV)
Fairy Pokémon B
Steel Pokémon C

But this would be legal
Dark
Dark Pokémon A (SV)
Dark Pokémon B
Dark Pokémon C

This time we have 2 vetoes (and neither of them are Hoopa-U surprisingly, since its movepool and HP are bad enough to make it balanced despite the minmaxed stats). I'll give the same treatment to these as the last veto from 2 slates ago, where I'll allow these subs (and only these subs) to be edited during voting and any votes for them will count if they are fixed in time. If they are not fixed in time, those votes will not count.
:swsh/klefki:
Pokémon:
Klefki (W.I.P.)
Category: Fairy
New Type:
Rock / Ghost
Stats:
New Moves:
Confuse Ray, Lick, Snarl, Rock Slide, Rock Throw, Wrap
Removed Moves: later gens, Psychic
Competitive Overview:
This sub was unfinished, so it can't be voted on without being finished
Pokémon: Lucario
Category: Steel
New Type: Fighting/Normal
Stats: 70 HP, 110 ATK, 70 DEF, 80 SPC, 90 SPE
New Moves: Elemental punches.
Removed Moves: Everything post gen 1.
Competitive Overview: What is there to say about Lucario? It's the second fastest fighting type, has the second highest attack out of them, has decent bulky, good movepool, stab Hi jump kick and, uh, what else?...Oh yeah, it's also a NORMAL TYPE! Enough said.
110 Attack on something with Swords Dance and STAB Hyper Beam is way too powerful, since +2 Hyper Beams would basically OHKO the entire tier after a little chip damage. I recommend making this pure Fighting and/or removing Swords Dance


Voting will end in 24 hours
 

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