Pet Mod [Gen 1] RBY CAP - Revived! [CAP5 - Stats] [Leader's Choice]

Voting Time!

For Voting, pick your top 5 choices, and the three concepts with the most votes will go on this slate!
You can vote for your own concepts, but only up to one of them.

List of concepts:
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker
Break the Mold
Dance Party!
Lockdown
Reverse Chansey/Physical Wall
I Miss Crythian
Status Absorber
Priority Revenge Killer
Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
High Crit Reliant Mixed Attacker
Secondary Effect Abuser
Wrapspam Helper
"STAB" Speed + Special Setup Sweeper/Growth Setup Sweeper
Late Rally
Status Shake-Up/Burn User
 
"STAB" Speed + Special Setup Sweeper/Growth Setup Sweeper
Reverse Chansey/Physical Wall
Priority Revenge Killer
Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
Status Absorber
 
1. Physical Wall/Reverse Chansey

2. Dance Party!

3. Priority Revenge Killer

4. High Crit Reliant Mixed Attacker

5. Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
 
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker
Dance Party!
High Crit Reliant Mixed Attacker
Status Shake-Up/Burn User
Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
 
Secondary Effect Abuser
Wrapspam Helper
Priority Revenge Killer
Break the Mold
Status Absorber
 
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Dual STAB Mixed Attacker
Priority Revenge Killer
Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
Status Shake-Up/Burn User

may add a fifth later
 
  • Love
Reactions: Eve
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker
Priority Revenge Killer
Break the Mold
Wrapspam Helper
Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
 
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Roughly 24 hours left to submit votes! Also if you edit your vote please let me or sabel know
 
"STAB" Speed + Special Setup Sweeper/Growth Setup Sweeper
Reverse Chansey/Physical Wall
Priority Revenge Killer
Lockdown
Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
 
The top 3 concepts are:

Dual STAB Mixed Attacker: A CAP that has STAB on both a physical and special attacking type and can use them both to good effect. The typing should be original or better utilize a typing that already exists (for example, we have two Water/Rock types but neither actually gets Rock Slide), but I'd personally prefer to see an underutilized typing like Fire, Fighting, Bug, or Poison for one of the types. Make sure to give it a distinct role compared to Zapdos without being so good it knocks Zapdos out of the meta.

Priority Revenge Killer: A Pokemon that is inclined to viably use a priority move as an option to revenge kill/bypass paralysis and so on. This could be done, for example, by using a signature move and/or heavily limiting its movepool.

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative)
A Pokemon that could be even scarier for jynx (and psyblizz mie?) than Gengar, whilst also possessing some but not all of Gengar's traits (High speed and special, sleep, eating normal moves, boom etc). This should not be better than gar, but still possess some pros over Gengar. An example I am inspired by is Burgundy ninetales, as in many ways it could be used of gengar, but had differences like neutrality to psychic, a strong stab attack and fire spin, but no boom and new weaknesses.

With that, it's time to move onto the second component of Slate 1.


Slate 1 Part 2: Typing​

Now it's time to determine the CAPmons' typings; they can be single or dual typed. This defines much of their possible matchup spread. Ideally, the types should somewhat balance each other out, especially when adding CAPmons of types that could disrupt the type balance, such as Fighting- or Bug-types, since these directly impact some of the strongest OU Pokemon.

For this slate, you can submit 1 typing for each concept (so up to 3 typings total). Make sure you specify which concept the typing is for. Roughly 72 hours to submit.

Have fun!
 
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker: Ground/Water

Water not threatened out by Zapdos, walled by eggy, actual substitute user, ironically prolly pairs well with zapdos itself.

Priority Revenge Killer: Dragon

Pure Dragon is a good typing with only one weakness, it's a great reason to add a dragon priority move to the mod.

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative): Fire/Ghost

Burgundy Ninetales moment: fire spin, nightshade, fire stab still faster than jynx and so on, it barely resembles Gengar in playstyle.
 
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Dual STAB Mixed Attacker: Fire/Ground
A strong STAB combination that blasts through Ground's biggest weakness in Exeggutor. However, it completely loses to Starmie, being weak to both water and Ice. However, it is twave immune which is nice

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative): Rock/Poison
Idea behind this mon is to have a high enough attack stat to flat-out OHKO Jynx with Rock Slide. However, it is forced out by Alakazam and Starmie due to its poison typing. The Gengar matchup depends on its HP and Special stats. Rock slide 3HKOes gengar if the attack stat is high enough to OHKO Jynx, while Gengar will presumably either 2HKO or 3HKO with Psychic. It will have to be balanced around the fact that it's a fast and strong mon with a good STAB type tho, so it'll probably have to be paper frail.
 
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker - I like to call this type combo the Nature Killer as it's a dual Fire/Poison type.
In this gen Poison is a physical type and is a hardly resisted one, only being resisted by Gengar and Rhydon, acting as neutral coverage. Its Fire typing would allow it to hit mons like Cloyster and Exeggutor for SE and try to fish for burns against Lax, increasing its utility.
To compensate for its flexibility and few mons that are defensively solid against it this type also provides notable weaknesses - a 4x weakness to ground means it still loses vs Tauros and Lax sets running EQ while a weakness to Psychic and Water means it's weak to Alakazam and Starmie. (The matchup specifics depend on the stats & exact movepool.)

To sum in it, Nature Killer would be at its best fighting the lower speed mons like Cloyster and Eggy than the fast psychics. It distinguishes itself from Zapdos by being scared of Earthquake and spreading Burn rather than Paralysis.

- - -

Priority Revenge Killer: The Dragon Warrior typing is Dragon / Fighting. Both of these types are strong candidates for receiving the priority move - Dragon is unresisted special damage while Fighting is a Tauros-focused physical damage move. Choosing this type combination would ensue the mon gets high flexibility in the upcoming slate, being able to pivot between special attacker and physical attacker and from being a generalist mon to focusing on a specific key target (Tauros).

Notably it shouldn't get reliable STAB for the type outside of its priority move - spamming unresisted Dragon moves around would be way too uninteractive and a strong Fighting type mon could snap the tier in half by breaking the big 3. However, this type gives the mon key weaknesses to Ice and Psychic. These weaknesses help ensure that it can't be used as a midgame bruiser, instead being forced to wait until the coast is clear to come out, waiting until the perfect moment to revenge kill. It would be a shame if this CAP was used as a midgame fighter like Zapdos or Rhydon rather than its dedicated role as a revenge killer and these weaknesses are necessary to prevent that from happening.
 
Priority Revenge Killer: Dragon/Fighting. I would also like to see this typing and logic on the Dual STAB Mixed Attacker, but they can't all be winners, and a priority dragon move sounded better to me. I could see it possessing a similar role to Persian, coming in in the late game and cleaning up, but without its glaring weakness to Paralysis, but instead a weakness to Ice + Psychic attacks, which are about as common, while being able to safely come in on something like a Thunderbolt. Having it throw out lesser distributed fighting moves such as Jump Kick outside of its signature move would also be good for dealing with a heavily chipped Snorlax or Chansey by late game.

Dual STAB Mixed Attacker: Ground/Electric. Bolt and Quake are half of the best coverage combos in the game, and just about everything Thunderbolt can't kill can be killed by an Earthquake, and vice-versa. Also it'd line up with the only other STAB mixed attacker in RBY, Zapdos, as the only non-mono Electric.

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative): Rock. A solid rock type with access to a signature, 100% accurate Rock move, would be the perfect thing to donk the physically weak Jynx. Personally, I would like to avoid the idea of making it a direct Gengar 'alternative', but instead make it an offensive mon, focused on denying your opponent's a lead to begin with. In terms of moves from Gengar, yes Boom, but no Sleep.
 
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker: Fire/Fighting
This is a pet typing I've wanted to see in RBY for a while. I think this creates really interesting trade-offs, because it's completely walled by Starmie and Slowbro, gets owned 1v1 by Alakazam, doesn't want to burn Chansey/Starmie, and can't switch into a lot of things, but it also has an incredibly threatening STAB type against the big 3 and STAB Fire Blast is just immense damage to every neutral target. I think the typing here is bad enough that this mon could actually have fairly good stats and movepool and not disrupt OU too much

Priority Revenge Killer: Rock
Rock is just a good offensive type that has some key strengths - taking out a low HP +2 Zapdos, sniping Jynx/Cloyster - and weaknesses, such as not really hitting much super effectively and being resisted by Rhydon. I think this could be a cool design space since Surf + EQ weaknesses mean you're never struggling to actually hit this mon and the lack of Twave immunity actually makes the priority role stronger here.

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative): N/A
I think the existing submissions already capture the directions we could go with this pretty well, I favor going with any of the Rock submissions personally as long as it doesn't beat Gengar, and depending on what we do for the Prio submission (I want to see type diversity, not just 2 Rocks).
 
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker: Grass/Ground - While packing a serious 4x weakness to Ice type attacks, STAB Ground and STAB Grass would prove an excellent combination for attacking a lot of big time threats in the tier, especially if a stat boosting move(s) is available in its movepool (STAB Earthquakes would really hit Gengar and Chansey, STAB Razor Leaf/other grass attacks would really hit Rhydon, Starmie, and Cloyster), while also being healthily walled by common threats (namely Exeggutor and all flying types). A simultaneous QuakeSlide resistance and Electric immunity would provide the Pokemon plenty of defensive utility as well to balance out its awful Ice weakness, making it a pushover to some sets and a real offensive menace to others.
A lot of RBY grasses can't really hit special walls like Chansey, or Psychic types for anything meaningful without using non-STAB normal type attacks, such as swords danced hyper beams or explosion, which let in Gengar for free. This Pokemon would get the physical STAB necessary to deal with special walls while also simultaneously keeping Gengar from coming in to ruin the fun, but also possessing the special STAB to make sure the physically bulkiest mons of the tier, like Cloyster and Rhydon, can be swiftly defeated as well. Overall, this type combination should prove balanced on a Dual STAB Mixed Attacker archetype.

Priority Revenge Killer: Normal/Rock - Normal typing grants STAB to Quick Attack, and Rock could benefit some sort of hypothesized secondary priority move if it needs to hit a weakened Gengar or other Ghosts, while still giving it a very vulnerable defensive typing for a lot of the "slow and bulky" mons of the tier to make quick work of, like Earthquake from Snorlax or Rhydon, Mega Drain from Exeggutor, Surf from Slowbro, Clamp from Cloyster, etc. Rock typing would also allow it a wonderful Hyper Beam swap in as well to hit potentially hit hard with STAB on the recharge and then promptly STAB Quick Attack, allowing two free attacking turns to punish sloppy hyper beam usage. Overall, the type combination should lead to a mon with a decent typing for revenge killing/stopping sweepers in their tracks.

Anti-Lead: Bug/Ice - Bug type clearly offers STAB to deal with all of the common Psychic type leads, while Ice type offers a Blizzard resistance and freeze immunity from the likes of Starmie and Jynx. Although it has no weakness to any of the common attacking types of the tier (neutral to Electric, Psychic, Normal and Water, resistant to Ice and Ground), it gets obliterated by anything packing Rock Slide, Drill Peck, or Fire Blast, while offering no comfortable way to take STAB attacks from a good chunk of the later game hitters, such as Tauros, Zapdos, back Starmie sets, Slowbro, etc. As a result, this mon wouldn't hardwall any OU staples, nor obsolete any of their roles, but would boast its own unique blend of resists and weaknesses, especially in a lead position.
 
No Vetoes this time! Everything mentioned above is fair game.

This time for voting, you can pick up to 2 choices for each concept (so a total of six votes). Within each concept, please rank them in order of 1-2 (so basically your favorite and second-favorite type for each concept.) Out of the first place votes, you can vote for one of your own submissions total.

The way we will determine the typings is by initially only looking at the first-place votes. If we're happy with the three typings, we'll stop there. However, we want type diversity as well (for example rock has a good chance at making it into two of these mons which we kinda don't want) so in the case of type overlap, we'll look at second-place votes to determine which one wins, and choose the second-most popular option for the losing type.

Dual STAB Mixed Attacker Typings:
Ground/Water
Fire/Ground
Fire/Poison
Ground/Electric
Fire/Fighting
Grass/Ground

Priority Revenge Killer Typings:
Dragon
Dragon/Fighting
Rock
Normal/Rock

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative) Typings:
Fire/Ghost
Rock/Poison
Rock
Bug/Ice

Gonna try a shorter voting period this time around. Roughly 48 Hours to vote!
 
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Dual STAB Mixed Attacker
Fire/Fighting
Fire/Poison

Priority Revenge Killer:
Dragon
Dragon/Fighting

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative):
Rock/Poison
Rock
 
Dual STAB Mixed Attacker Typings:
Fire/Poison
Fire/Ground

Priority Revenge Killer Typings:
Dragon/Fighting
Dragon

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative) Typings:
Fire/Ghost
Rock
 
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I wanna throw out some quick comments with my vote, while I think all the typings are fine and workable please keep in mind that typings like Ghost/Fire, Water/Ground, Normal/Rock, and Bug/Ice would be extremely powerful and require mediocre to bad stats and movepools to compensate. Water/Ground just completely walls half the meta and is reliant on having bad moves and stats to not wipe out Zapdos and Rhydon, Ghost/Fire is better Gengar if it has the same tools, Normal/Rock is the best Tauros/Lax switch-in of all time, and Bug/Ice is just straight up impossible to switch into if it has dual STAB. This is not to say they're bad types, just keep in mind that the stronger you make the type the less you can do in later phases without breaking it. I'll make comments on what I think the ideal power level for stats/movepool should be once we see what wins, but for now:

Dual STAB Mixed Attacker:
Fire/Fighting
Fire/Ground

Priority Revenge Killer:
Dragon/Fighting
Rock

Anti-Lead (Gengar Alternative):
Fire/Ghost
Rock/Poison
 
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