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Metagame Gen 8 1v1 Speculation, Suggestion, and Updates Thread

Alakazam

corrupt auth xd
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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Sup nerds,
With Pokemon Sword and Shield only 1 month away, it is about time that we collect our thoughts on the future of 1v1. What Pokemon, new or old, do you think will be viable, given everything we know about the mechanics so far? What do you think should be implemented or removed for the next generation?

Record your thoughts here, and we can debate and have a good laugh when we look back in retrospect. Have fun uwu

edit 1: https://www.serebii.net/swordshield/galarpokedex.shtml List of confirmed Pokemon, pointed out by Pokesartoolcay
 
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Approved by Quote
Hey nerds,
With Pokemon Sword and Shield only 1 month away, it is about time that we collect our thoughts on the future of 1v1. What Pokemon, new or old, do you think will be viable, given everything we know about the mechanics so far? What do you think should be implemented or removed for the next generation?

Collect your thoughts here, and we can debate and have a good laugh when we look back in retrospect. Have fun uwu
Have thoughts on a multitude of different stuff, but I'll just say this: Pokemon that's primary reasoning in their bans were Z-Moves (Mimikyu, lax, maybe koko) should be unbanned at the beginning of the gen to see how they work out.

Here is the list of confirmed mons

Also #DanBynamax
 
I don't think it can be understated how different everything will be without z crystals and mega stones. Two s tiers are just going to drop and Dnite will probably be good but will still miss z moves. Dnite isn't even confirmed yet (calling Galarian Dnite now lads to make up for no mega) and Magearna is a mythical so every s tier might be gone. None of the new mons seem meta defining as of yet, bar Wooloo who I am preemptively nomming to s+++ tier with it's incredible eviolite fluffy bulk that requires a special attacking fire type on every team to beat it
 
Haxorus’s Mold Breaker will be valuable, since there’s significantly less competition for Mold Breaker; especially if Mimikyu is allowed.

Sylveon with Hyper Beam since it’s the only default pixilate user perhaps?

Avalugg and Sawk are noteworthy sturdy users.
 

Alakazam

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is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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The one thing I know for certain is that Dexit will require Smeargle to not return to Sword and Shield

Besides having yet to be confirmed, Smeargle's entire gimmick was that it could learn any move. This wasn't an issue previously, as each successive game merely added everything their predecessors had from game to game, but with many Pokemon not being included, with the stated reasoning being to save space, including Smeargle would just mean they would either need to code dozens of unique moves that won't be possible to use from any other Pokemon outside of Smeargle (assuming most mythicals will not return), or, the simpler option, not include Smeargle.
 
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Snorlax still looks like it can be a terrorizing force, with the elimination of z-moves and megas, Snorlax's longibility is expanded even further, and can still use sleep to it's advantage.

It should probably remain banned
 

Jocus

Banned deucer.
Sirfetch'd looks interesting, especially with Stick and a signature move. However, judging from its looks, it appears to have neither speed nor bulk. I believe that it will become a garbage meme early in the metagame until people realize it's not very good like Alolan Marowak.
 

Jocus

Banned deucer.
M24
Things to keep in mind about Snorlax:
1. Elimination of Z-Moves means that it cannot bypass Taunt.
2. Without Normalium Z, Belly Drum requires more health than most attackers will allow it.
3. Its power without a Belly Drum boost is disappointing.
I see something with Amnesia / Curse / Recycle / Return with a berry, but not the sleep abuser of this generation.
 
I'll make an actual S&S post later but for right now these are all of the confirmed Pokemon on the VR for Gen 8.
A Rank

Mew

A- Rank

Aegislash

Kommo-o

B+ Rank

Clefable

Togekiss

B Rank
Ferrothorn

Haxorus

Porygon2

Sawk

Whimsicott

C+ Rank

Avalugg

Diggersby

gyarados.png
Gyarados

Quagsire

Umbreon

C Rank

Gigalith

Rhyperior

vaporeon.png
Vaporeon

C- Rank

Hydreigon

:reuniclus: Reuniclus

Togedemaru

trevenant.png
Trevenant

tyranitar.png
Tyranitar

weavile.png
Weavile

D Rank

Arcanine

Bellossom

Chandelure

193990
Gengar

milotic.png
Milotic

riolu.png
Riolu

Roserade

Sylveon
Don't get me wrong this isn't very accurate to what the VR will be like come Gen 8 because of Z-Moves and other items gone, but it gives and accurate representation of about how much of the 1v1 meta is gone.
 
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Alakazam

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Specs Gengar looks like a force, tbh-

Edit: Gengar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave

look at this and look at VR
 
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I'll make an actual S&S post later but for right now these are all of the confirmed Pokemon on the VR for Gen 8.
S Rank
Dragonite
What is your source for Dnite being confirmed cos I haven't found anything that says it's in
 

Jocus

Banned deucer.
Specs Gengar looks like a force, tbh-

Edit: Gengar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave

look at this and look at VR
Everyone's gonna be running Scarves with dynamax
 
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Have a way too long analysis by yours truly


The National Pokedex Cut and the Death of Megas
I think in order to truly grasp the scope of how radically different SWSH 1v1 is gonna be altered by these choices, I'm going to copy-paste the USUM 1v1 Viability Ranking in its current state at the time of typing this with all Pokemon not confirmed/deconfirmed removed from it. In other words, only things we know for sure will be in the game right now. Edit: God damnit pqs sniped my ass, oh well I'll keep this in anyway. Porygon ain't confirmed sorry bro

S Rank

S- Rank

A+ Rank

A Rank

Mew

A- Rank
Aegislash
Kommo-o

B+ Rank
Clefable
Togekiss

B Rank
Ferrothorn
Haxorus
Sawk
Whimsicott

B- Rank

C+ Rank

Avalugg
Diggersby
gyarados.png
Gyarados
Quagsire
Rotom-Heat
Umbreon

C Rank
Gigalith
Rhyperior
Rotom-Wash
vaporeon.png
Vaporeon

C- Rank
Hydreigon
reuniclus.png
Reuniclus
Togedemaru
trevenant.png
Trevenant
tyranitar.png
Tyranitar
weavile.png
Weavile

D Rank
Arcanine
Bellossom
Chandelure
193990
Gengar
milotic.png
Milotic
riolu.png
Riolu
Roserade
Rotom-Mow
Sylveon


Yeah, it's pretty safe to say we're heading into uncharted territory roster-wise. If you think the 1v1 meta has gotten stale, you're more than in luck, because this is a shake-up unlike anything this format has probably ever seen in its history, as it will be for many, many other formats. Especially compounded with the other new mechanic...

Dynamax: Will it be OP?
For starters, in the context of 1v1, comparing Dynamaxing to Z-Moves is a false comparison. Yes, they give your moves a power-boost, but that's where the resemblance ends. There's a few key things that make them more difficult to assess, notably the HP boost and the ability to be paired with any item. These elements combined I believe will make Dynamaxing most beneficial to bulky attackers like Rhyperior and Tyranitar, giving them extra firepower with no opportunity cost was well as a bulk boost. Then again, the former benefit can apply to anyone, making Dynamax itself something that you could seemingly click turn 1 with no thinking involved. However, another key facet that sets it apart from Z-moves is how it affects status: Rather than wacky effects like Z-Belly Drum or Z-Curse, all status moves default to Max Guard, a protect clone that fully shields the user from Max Moves. This has very interesting implications for Pokemon that in USUM rely on Z-Status like Quagsire: It gives them a way out against Max Moves but also gives them less cheesy/varied options. Speaking of Max Moves, yet another notable thing about them compared to Z-Moves are offensive moves having special effects like setting field effects or boosting stats or dropping the foe's stats. And honestly? I feel like in most cases, these additional effects will hardly matter. Setting Electric Terrain or boosting Attack isn't really a priority in a meta where you're trying to KO a single Pokemon as fast as possible, or at least much less than in a Singles or Doubles match where you got an entire team of 3, 4 or 6 you gotta deal with where these effects could be used to snowball. If anything, effects that boost or reduce the foe's bulk like Max Steel raising Defense or Max Ground lowering the foe's defense could be more valuable for netting KOes on Unaware users and the like as well as protecting the user from being knocked out. Oh, I almost forgot to mention how it lasts 3 turns, which in 1v1 time is basically 50-100% of the game unless you're facing stall. On top of all this there's also the question of how Gigantamaxing will work, but we know too little about that right now imo to make a fair assessment.

So, will Dynamaxing be OP? This may sound like a cop-out answer, but the truth is it's not possible to tell. Obviously, we can't play a 1v1 meta with this mechanic implemented at this very moment. Or can we...? ...Nah, we can't. Was gonna shill nexus psim swsh format with dynamaxing implemented in this section but I doubt it'll get played enough to make an impact. Oh wait I shilled it anyways oops

Notable Threats?
With the landscape so different-looking this time around, let's see what could be good.


The king is back. He fell hard in USUM from the aforementioned powercreep and z-moves being a bastard, but hey that's not an issue anymore with so much shit gone and dynamaxing raising its own HP while still letting it run Custap Berry sets. Don't got a whole lot to say about it: It's Rhyperior, it will probably be pretty solid rock.


A handful of Sturdy users are confirmed to appear right now, Sawk being among them. Power decreep once again benefits it majorly. Tapus? Dragonite? Mega Charizard forms? All gone. We also have less Mold Breaker users so yeah, it's definitely Sawk time.


Ok, ok, hear me out for a second. Mega Pidgeot is gone. Meloetta is unlikely to appear for being a past-gen mythical. Porygon-Z is unconfirmed. With these uncertainties in mind, assuming they hold up, Drampa is now the strongest Hyper Beam user, and gets 3 turns without even having to deal with the risk of not KOing and being forced to recharge with Dynamaxing lasting 3 turns. It also has oodles of important coverage like Draco Meteor, Uproar and Fire Blast, alright bulk and two useful abilities in Sap Sipper which lets it meme on Sleep Powder and Berserk to get even stronger. And before you say Drampa isn't confirmed 100%, Turtunator was recently shown to be available so uh, yeah. If somehow Dramps doesn't make it despite this I guess you could try Heliolisk or something.
 
Lack of Z moves + Megas probably means a bulkier more stall based metagame, I see a lot more variation in mons coming even without Z moves as the lack of power will allow more things to be useable (I'm looking at you eviolite galarian linoone)

A handful of Sturdy users are confirmed to appear right now, Sawk being among them. Power decreep once again benefits it majorly. Tapus? Dragonite? Mega Charizard forms? All gone. We also have less Mold Breaker users so yeah, it's definitely Sawk time.
I always knew scarf sawk was the best god damn Pokemon and the whole world and you all didn't believe me, I guess I was just ahead of the curve because this thing looks like god incarnate next gen. I'm spamming this thing on ladder the day gen 8 comes out
 

Jocus

Banned deucer.
Unban KyuB please so I can OHKO Sawk
Probably a good idea to unban it anyway because of precedent in Gen 5 and 6 1v1 without Z-Moves.

Probably also good to remove Species Clause.
 
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