Done Gen 8 CAP Updates - CAP19 - Plasmanta

:plasmanta: CAP19: Plasmanta Generation 8 Update :plasmanta:

Hello! Welcome to the Generation 8 Plasmanta update thread. In this thread, we will be updating the movepool of one of our past CAP creations to better match the changes Gamefreak made in Generation 8.

A major change that occurred between this update cycle and the last was to significantly narrow the scope of CAP updates. Abilities, statlines, and typings will not be changed during the course of this update. Only changes to a CAP's movepool will be allowed. Additionally, full movepool changes are also off the table, as the Update Leaders will decide where to distribute moves for their respective Pokemon based off logic and the ICC.

Furthermore, we have defined what type of changes are allowed to movepools, as well as the type of moves up for discussion. Movepool changes will be broken down in two categories: removals and additions. Moves that are subject to removal are those that have been rendered unusable in Sword and Shield, such as Pursuit, and past generation tutors and Technical Machiness that are not available as a Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Move that are subject to addition are moves introduced in Sword and Shield and moves that are new Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Please make sure that any moves brought up in this thread fall under at least one of these categories.

We have also defined the following considerations for use in evaluating move removals and additions. The foremost consideration is that any change proposed fits both the flavor of the CAP in question and the flavor of Generation 8 as a whole. This means that all changes should follow trends and precedents seen in Generation 8. Intentional buffing and balancing of CAP Pokemon is not the intent of this update cycle. We also wish to avoid the creation of an unbalanced CAP Pokemon. Therefore, the second consideration for move changes is the competitive impact of said changes. Moves that are clearly too powerful will be banned from discussion by the Update Leader.

This update cycle also has a set schedule. For four weeks, each of the seven Update Leaders will post a discussion thread for a single CAP Pokemon. This thread will be used for the discussion of changes to a CAPs movepool as explained in this post. Each thread will have six days reserved for discussion on potential changes to a CAP's movepool. On the seventh day, the Update Leader will collect the ICC and determine what will be changed. Controversial changes will be subject to a poll.

For the discussion of Plasmanta, please refer to this link for the CAP's full movepool. Some other resources the CAP mods have compiled to make discussion easier is this list of cut moves that are distributed to our CAP pokemon, and this list of past TMs that were not included as Gen 8 TMs and TRs. Note that for the TM list, moves with * are those that have been cut entirely.
 
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Red means the move is not in SWSH
Blue means the move would only be available as a pre-Gen 8 transfer move through Pokemon Home Green moves would be blue, except the move already appears in Level Up or Egg Moves


-- Poison Sting
-- Thunder Shock
-- Supersonic
01 Electric Terrain
06 Poison Sting
06 Thunder Shock
09 Supersonic
12 Acid
16 Encore
19 Thunder Wave
22 Clear Smog
26 Ion Deluge
29 Poison Tail
33 Aqua Tail
38 Parabolic Charge
42 Psywave
47 Discharge
51 Cross Poison
56 Swagger
60 Thunder
64 Eerie Impulse
Egg Moves (Water 1 / Water 2 )
Aura Sphere (Squirtle)
Venom Drench (Mareanie)
Haze (Wooper)
Signal Beam
Splash (Gyarados)
Wide Guard (Mantine)
Shock Wave (no available donors)
Water Pulse (Squirtle)
Aqua Tail
Block
Electroweb
Iron Tail
Magnet Rise
Shock Wave

Signal Beam

Snore
Water Pulse
Zen Headbutt
TMs/HMs
TM03: Psyshock
TM06: Toxic
TM09: Venoshock
TM10: Hidden Power
TM12: Taunt
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM21: Frustration
TM24: Thunderbolt
TM25: Thunder
TM27: Return
TM29: Psychic
TM32: Double Team
TM34: Sludge Wave
TM36: Sludge Bomb
TM42: Façade
TM44: Rest
TM45: Attract
TM48: Round
TM68: Giga Impact
TM73: Thunder Wave
TM84 Poison Jab
TM87: Swagger
TM88: Sleep Talk
TM90: Substitute
TM91: Flash Cannon
TM93: Wild Charge
TM99: Dazzling Gleam
TM100: Confide
HM01: Cut


Nothing too difficult with Plasmanta here, we are just looking for replacements for Ion Deluge and Psywave in its level-up pool, as well as any new moves from generation 8 it should learn. All blue moves will be moved into Transfer Only unless they are decided to be used as replacements for Plasmanta's lost moves

Remember to ensure you have read the OP and know that suggested new moves must be moves with increased availability in SwSh or newly introduced into Generation 8, they must also not be direct competitive upgrades. With that said, discuss ahead!

This thread will close on the 12th March
 
Shock Wave can replace Ion Deluge and Toxic can replace Psywave in the level up list. Shock Wave with its 60 BP fits between Thunder Shock‘s 40 BP and Parabolic Charge’s 65 BP. Plasmanta is Poison-type so it should keep Toxic, and most Pokemon that learn Toxic through level up get it at later levels.
(Also, the title says cap13 Necturna.)
 
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New moves I could see it getting are Volt Switch and Electro Ball considering almost all Electric-types get these two moves now. I could also see it getting Life Dew as an egg move given its Water egg groupings and it being a sea creature
 
I think Electro Ball and Life Dew are okay since they aren't viable, but Volt Switch was disallowed during its creation process and would present a direct buff. Liquidation could also fit since Plasmanta is aquatic, it already gets the slightly stronger Aqua Tail, and its base 57 Atk means it would never use it anyway.
 

LucarioOfLegends

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Quick thoughts:

-Shock Wave and Toxic over the red moves is fine, they are good reasonings.
-Electro Ball and Liquidation are good moves, already has Aqua Tail and it doesn't have the attack stat to use the latter, and the former is too inconsistent to be used competitvely. Its typing and Egg group also work flavorwise. Not sold on Life Dew.
-While Volt Switch fits flavorfully and honestly really isn't a buff, we rejected it last update and its been a TM for ages. While i'd love for Plas to get it I believe it is out of scope of our process.

Now for a weird suggestion, and say it with me: Body Press

Flavorwise, it totally fits. Plasmanta is gigantic in size and is pretty much one body. It also has a suprisingly solid Defense for it as well, which sticks with common trends.

Competitively, I think its also fine. Its biggest claim is that it allows Plasmanta to actually Equilibra with some harder than a leaky water pistol, which does theorectically change the matchup from a straight lose to a possible win with correct play. Problem is that you would either run this over Aura Sphere, which means your damage overall with fighting coverage is weaker because Plas cannot really afford to run bulk evs, or running it alongside Aura Sphere which is redundant coverage wise and plas needs its coverage badly. It is possible I guess to run a weird bulky set with stuff like Toxic and PCharge alongside Press, but I need to look into it and I am not too worried. I do not think that Press is a direct upgrade.

At the very least Body Slam fits very flavorfully and has little competitive use, so thats an easy add. I'd mention Nasty Plot as well but I need a year to write that post and also Jho would 90% smite me.
 

Adeleine

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I love one or both of Body Press and Body Slam.

Magnet Rise being relegated to transfer would feel quite odd given Plasmanta's lack of groundedness, and with how objectively cool it is to turn a 4x weakness into an immunity. Stunfisk(-Unovan) could give Magnet Rise as an Egg Move.
 
Shock Wave onto Ion Deluge is fine. I think Magnet Rise fits better in place of Psywave instead of Toxic going there. Toxic can have it's place in Egg moves (Mareanie/Toxapex pass it) imo.
 
We are running on a different timeline for these final updates. As you can tell here we are going to be finishing all CAP updates TOMORROW (Friday) from 8am to midnight CST. Below is a list of every suggestion that has been made in this thread to the movepool in the OP. If you have more to suggest, please do them via post or (preferably) Discord.

>> Please join our Discord channel by clicking here. We'll be discussing these updates LIVE all day! <<

Below are the suggestions that have been made thus far in this thread. The parentheses represent the recommended move to remove in order to make move. Brackets represent breeding partners, while a strikethrough represents something that was discussed, but is vetoed by later discussion for being too competitively relevant. A '' symbolizes that it a bullet point that's it's a conditional change base on its header change becoming approved.

Suggested Movepool Movement:
Ion Deluge to Shock Wave
Psywave to Toxic
Psywave to Magnet Rise
Toxic to Egg Move (Toxapex)
Magnet Rise to Egg Move (Stunfisk)

Suggested New Moves:
Electro Ball
Life Dew (Egg)
Liquidation
Body Press
Body Slam

hope i haven't missed anything, thanks!
 
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01 Electric Terrain
01 Poison Sting
01 Thunder Shock
01 Supersonic
01 Acid
16 Encore
19 Thunder Wave
22 Clear Smog
26 Psybeam
29 Poison Tail
33 Aqua Tail
38 Parabolic Charge
42 Electrify
47 Discharge
51 Cross Poison
56 Swagger
60 Thunder
64 Eerie Impulse

Replaced Ion Deluge with Electrify and replaced Psywave with Psybeam as both are very similar to their snapped counterparts. We also ended up flipping the Level that the moves were learned due to Psybeam being generally learnt a lot earlier than level 42, and having a weak move earlier made more sense.
Egg Moves (Water 1 / Water 2 )
Toxic (Tympole, Mareanie)
Haze (Wooper)
Splash (Gyarados)
Wide Guard (Mantine)
Water Pulse (Squirtle)

Move Aura Sphere to TMs/TRs, removed Shock Wave to Transfer Only and cut the snapped Signal Beam. Added Toxic to Egg moves to prevent it from being Transfer Only, which didn't feel right on Poison-type mon Plasmanta. Since its also an Egg move for some other Poison-types, and has 2 viable donor parents, this should be fine.
TMs/TRs
TM08: Hyper Beam
TM09: Giga Impact
TM14: Thunder Wave
TM21: Rest
TM24: Snore
TM25: Protect
TM31: Attract
TM33: Rain Dance
TM39: Facade
TM74: Venoshock
TM76: Round

TR01: Body Slam
TR08: Thunderbolt
TR09: Thunder
TR11: Psychic
TR20: Substitute
TR22: Sludge Bomb
TR25: Psyshock
TR26: Endure
TR27: Sleep Talk
TR37: Taunt
TR56: Aura Sphere
TM57: Poison Jab
TR70: Flash Cannon
TR78: Sludge Wave
TR80: Electro Ball
TR86: Wild Charge
TR92: Dazzling Gleam
TR98: Liquidation
TR99: Body Press

Added Electro Ball, Endure, Liquidation, Body Slam, Body Press. Removed all the Reds and Blues will go to transfer only. Electro Ball is least by virtually every Electric-type, and similarly, Liquidation is learned by almost all aquatic Pokemon, regardless of if they are Water-types. Body Slam and Press are in line with Plasmantas huge size. Endure and Snore are universal now so this gets them too

Block
Magnet Rise
Shock Wave
Double Team
Confide
Cut
 
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dhelmise

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Code:
1 - Electric Terrain
1 - Poison Sting
1 - Thunder Shock
1 - Supersonic
1 - Acid
16 - Encore
19 - Thunder Wave
22 - Clear Smog
26 - Psybeam
29 - Poison Tail
33 - Aqua Tail
38 - Parabolic Charge
42 - Electrify
47 - Discharge
51 - Cross Poison
56 - Swagger
60 - Thunder
64 - Eerie Impulse
Egg - Toxic
Egg - Haze
Egg - Splash
Egg - Wide Guard
Egg - Water Pulse
TM/TR - Hyper Beam
TM/TR - Giga Impact
TM/TR - Thunder Wave
TM/TR - Rest
TM/TR - Snore
TM/TR - Protect
TM/TR - Attract
TM/TR - Rain Dance
TM/TR - Facade
TM/TR - Venoshock
TM/TR - Round
TM/TR - Body Slam
TM/TR - Thunderbolt
TM/TR - Thunder
TM/TR - Psychic
TM/TR - Substitute
TM/TR - Sludge Bomb
TM/TR - Psyshock
TM/TR - Endure
TM/TR - Sleep Talk
TM/TR - Taunt
TM/TR - Aura Sphere
TM/TR - Poison Jab
TM/TR - Flash Cannon
TM/TR - Sludge Wave
TM/TR - Electro Ball
TM/TR - Wild Charge
TM/TR - Dazzling Gleam
TM/TR - Liquidation
TM/TR - Body Press
 
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