Done Gen 8 CAP Updates - CAP6 - Arghonaut

[Jho]

Hello! Welcome to the Generation 8 Arghonaut update thread. In this thread, we will be updating the movepool of one of our past CAP creations to better match the changes Gamefreak made in Generation 8.

A major change that occurred between this update cycle and the last was to significantly narrow the scope of CAP updates. Abilities, statlines, and typings will not be changed during the course of this update. Only changes to a CAP's movepool will be allowed. Additionally, full movepool changes are also off the table, as the Update Leaders will decide where to distribute moves for their respective Pokemon based off logic and the ICC.

Furthermore, we have defined what type of changes are allowed to movepools, as well as the type of moves up for discussion. Movepool changes will be broken down in two categories: removals and additions. Moves that are subject to removal are those that have been rendered unusable in Sword and Shield, such as Pursuit, and past generation tutors and Technical Machiness that are not available as a Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Move that are subject to addition are moves introduced in Sword and Shield and moves that are new Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Please make sure that any moves brought up in this thread fall under at least one of these categories.

We have also defined the following considerations for use in evaluating move removals and additions. The foremost consideration is that any change proposed fits both the flavor of the CAP in question and the flavor of Generation 8 as a whole. This means that all changes should follow trends and precedents seen in Generation 8. Intentional buffing and balancing of CAP Pokemon is not the intent of this update cycle. We also wish to avoid the creation of an unbalanced CAP Pokemon. Therefore, the second consideration for move changes is the competitive impact of said changes. Moves that are clearly too powerful will be banned from discussion by the Update Leader.

This update cycle also has a set schedule. For four weeks, each of the seven Update Leaders will post a discussion thread for a single CAP Pokemon. This thread will be used for the discussion of changes to a CAPs movepool as explained in this post. Each thread will have six days reserved for discussion on potential changes to a CAP's movepool. On the seventh day, the Update Leader will collect the ICC and determine what will be changed. Controversial changes will be subject to a poll.

For the discussion of Arghonaut, please refer here for the CAP's full movepool. Some other resources the CAP mods have compiled to make discussion easier is this list of cut moves that are distributed to our CAP pokemon, and this list of past TMs that were not included as Gen 8 TMs and TRs. Note that for the TM list, moves with * are those that have been cut entirely.

 

[Jho]

Hello Party people, welcome to Arghonauts generation 8 update!

​

Below is Argh's movepool with certain moves highlighted. Moves that have been highlighted include those which were cut from the generation 8 games completely, as well as those that had their distribution changed so that Arghonaut can no longer get them that way.


Red means the move is not in SWSH
Blue means the move isn't a TM or TR in SWSH, so if we decide that it should be in Arghonaut Generation 8 movepool, it must be moved in Level Up or Egg Moves (and thus requires discussion)
Green moves would be blue, except the move already appears in Level Up or Egg Moves

Level Up

Level Up Moves:
- Bubble
- Wrap
Evolve: Circle Throw
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
14 Arm Thrust
19 Aqua Jet
24 Taunt
30 Chip Away
35 Mach Punch
40 Scald
46 Revenge
51 Thief
56 Submission
62 Wide Guard
67 Punishment
73 Focus Punch

TMs

TMs:
TM01 - Work Up
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall
TM100 - Confide

Tutor

Tutor Moves:
Dive
Foul Play
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Low Kick
Mud Slap
Snore
Superpower
Thunder Punch
Vacuum Wave

Egg Moves

Egg Moves (Water 1 / Water 3):
Bulk Up [ Golisipod / Grapploct / Barbaracle ]
Cross Chop [ Barbaracle ]
Headbutt [ Mantine / Araquanid / Dreadnaw ]
Octazooka [ Octillery / Grapploct ]
Recover [ Milotic / Gastrodon / Toxapex / Quagsire ]
Scary Face [ Dreadnaw / Grapploct ]
Spikes [ Qwilfish / Golisipod ]
Close Combat [ Golisipod / Grapploct ]

Transfer Moves / Old TMs

Brine
Captivate
Cut
Endure
Power Up Punch
Retaliate
Rock Smash
Secret Power
Snatch
Strength
Water Pulse
Whirlpool

Most of the moves Arghonaut stands to lose are mostly inconsequential, however...

Some of the most important things to look at here are Knock Off and Toxic, as both have heavily reduced distribution in the new games, and Arghonaut has commonly used both. How should we handle these? Does it make sense to keep them and fit them into Arghonauts movepool elsewhere, or drop them?

As a disclaimer, I am banning discussion of adding Octolock to Arghonauts movepool. Whilst this is a flavour based process and Octolock makes perfect sense flavour wise, it has far too many competitive implications to be added. If anyone can convince me that it would not drastically alter Arghonaut's competitive aspects, then I will unban it, but for now, at least, please do not discuss this move.

 

[Bughouse]

I don't think it makes sense to keep Knock Off or Toxic due to the vast reductions in distributions of the moves in SS. Arghonaut will still always have a niche in Spikes, Recover, and Unaware, so I don't think it's too necessary to worry about it losing viability. Almost any two moves with some amount of synergy can be run alongside Spikes and Recover to form a viable set. Circle Throw + Gunk Shot/Foul Play/Ice Punch seems totally plausible to me.

I actually do think adding Octolock could be interesting only because Argonaut's best sets are the Unaware sets. We gave it Technician in the last update, and as far as I know it is never used. But ironically, Unaware means Arghonaut would be ignoring the benefit of Octolock, so it would only be useful on a Technician set. It does still have a trapping effect, but that seems no different from Mean Look, which is not a broken move. So unless there's a fear of Technician Arghonaut running riot with Octolock, I don't see the big concern.

 

[Jho]

I actually do think adding Octolock could be interesting only because Argonaut's best sets are the Unaware sets. We gave it Technician in the last update, and as far as I know it is never used. But ironically, Unaware means Arghonaut would be ignoring the benefit of Octolock, so it would only be useful on a Technician set. It does still have a trapping effect, but that seems no different from Mean Look, which is not a broken move. So unless there's a fear of Technician Arghonaut running riot with Octolock, I don't see the big concern.

Just wanted to expand on this a bit as I realise its not that obvious why I would ban this at first glance. Whilst Arghonaut itself does not benefit from the defense drops, I think its best use is to reduce somethings defenses down whilst they are trapped and then go into something which can now beat them thanks to the defense drops. For an example, Arghonaut can Octolock a Corviknight to -6/-6, where Hatterene can easily KO it. Now the opponent has to decide whether to let their Hatterene check die because they sent out Corviknight to defog spikes, or let Hatterene set up Trick Room. This isn't the best example because Corv sometimes has Taunt but hopefully, it explains the concern, it can be used to give potent threats free turns vs Pokemon which should check them, allowing them to either get a free kill or set up unimpeded.

Octolock has the ability to put opponents in extremely unfavourable situations if Arghonaut uses it on a passive Pokemon, which it often can do as they come in to remove any Spikes it sets. If Toxic is also kept, the combination of Toxic, Taunt, and Trapping is also extremely deadly. Arghonaut also has the bulk to just stall out a lot of passive Pokemon with any sort of trapping and could be quite effective at just removing Pokemon like Toxapex, Hippowdon, and Seismitoad on its own

 

[MrDollSteak]

Of the existing moves, I think Knock off could stay rather flavourably. Machamp, G Farfetchd and a few other Fighting types have it in their level up move pools fairly early on between say 20 and 40, and I could reasonably see it replacing Chip Away at level 30 for this reason.

Toxic is a tricky one because a few Water types have kept it, but I don't personally think that poison on Arghonaut is flavorful enough considering its move pool.

As far as new additions, Darkest Lariat, Breaking Swipe, Hydro Pump and Muddy Water all make sense as far as new TRs with distribution.

I could also see No Retreat as a flavorful addition that could not be easily abused on its Unaware set, though it could open up a Technician one. The move is a very strong one so it's not necessarily one to just slap on anything, but it does strike me as flavorful in this specific instance, though it will probably need some further discussion and possibly calcs considering Argh's access to Recover.

 

[Bughouse]

I take your point about the defense lowering -> go to teammate game plan, since that has in fact been a viable strategy in past generations in Wob Tickle -> Pursuit mon. However with no Pursuit this generation I’m not sure it’s broken. Still this reasoning makes more sense than the initial explanation so thank you for that.

Anyhow, Octolock is still a signature move and I don’t think we’re in any way compelled to add it regardless of tentacular flavor. Octillery is also in the game and does NOT learn it. If anything, realizing there’s Octolock and Octazooka as signatures and Arghonaut doesn’t have one just makes me sad haha.

 

[Ginger Princess]

first CAP post xd

If we're going from a pure flavor perspective, it would make perfect sense for a pirate-esque Pokemon to keep a dirty-tactic moves such as Knock Off in the learnset.

Knock Off has essentially been buffed this gen, with the removal of z crystals and megas; in addition to this, Arghonaut may have the potential to, at least early on, play offensively, with a sorely missing offensive typing thanks to the (temporary) dexit of Keldeo, and the overall decrease in power seen throughout the metagame. To add on to this, I think potentially adding Swords Dance to Arghonaut's learnset (or as a TR learned move) could be interesting. It fits the motif of a pirate, obviously, and would greatly improve Arghonaut's chances of breaking from the norm of Spikes Setup. Arghonaut has never really been an offensive powerhouse but giving it viable setup could easily change that in these strange times. This probably skirts the line between flavor and buffing, but its still kind of strange that a Pokemon whose arm is literally a sword can't learn SD.

Adding on to this, Octozooka would be a crowd pleaser that would make sense for Arghonaut. Its not like its a special attacker, adding this would be pure flavor- (ignore this) Swagger definitely could work as a level up move, for obvious pirate-y reasons.

On to removals, Toxic doesn't seem like a move it could naturally learn, and fits the overall trend of Toxic being removed as a universal tech. Yawn also seems strange, from a flavor perspective for a pirate (unless theres some hidden meaning or inside joke I'm missing), and it doesn't really add anything competitively (acknowledging that flavor is the main focus here).

Every other blue move I am indifferent for, tbh. Hope this post is what was meant to be posted here~

Edit: I forgot about the other TR moves. Muddy Water, Toxic Spikes, Nasty Plot, and Liquidation all could work for Arghonaut, imo, as they all could be concievable under the 'octopus pirate' ideology.

 

[Deck Knight]

Arghonaut is in a very strange situation. It's perfectly viable without the moves it would otherwise stand to lose, however those moves are a huge part of how it has played in the past. If you go way back at the creation of Arghonaut, you even find that in order to keep it balanced (in our minds) we separated out Bulk Up, Cross Chop, and Recover as an ineligible combination of egg moves. Changes in how egg moves are transferred made this construction irrelevant, but the history stands.

Interestingly, there is good flavor support for retaining Toxic. Both Quagsire and Pyukumukku have Unaware as their ability and learn Toxic. Knock Off is much rarer on Gen 8 Fighting types. Machamp retains it, and Galararian Farfetch'd / Sirfetch'd / Passimian (via Egg) has it. With this in mind and since Arghonaut is losing several level-up slots, Toxic fits in nicely and Knock Off less so.

Then there comes to the issue of additions/"buffs." In Arghonaut's Gen 7 Update we avoided giving it Liquidation, and I think we should retain that choice, and extend it to the newly proliferated Razor Shell. Flavorwise it actually would work (Argh has a cutlass and a hook on its hands...), but it is an unnecessary buff even if Unaware Argh can't use the Defense drops. There's not a particularly good way to address these, so let's take them in turn:

Body Slam: Huge distribution on Fighting types, though Scald burns are usually preferable to unSTAB yellow magic.
Body Press: Works amazingly with Bulk Up, but is generally underwhelming compared to Drain Punch for longevity or Close Combat for damage output.
Hydro Pump: Arghonaut is never going to use this. Scald has too much utility, Waterfall works off the better physical attack.
Throat Chop: Gen 7 Updates were done before USUM Tutors. Throat Chop makes flavor sense (common on fighting types), replaces some of Arghonaut's lost Dark moves, and aside from being a strange tech for Hyper Voice Sylveon/Clangorous Soul Kommo-o, doesn't have much utility.

Pure Flavor:
Assurance - Weaker (generally) than last-gen Knock Off / Same as Tech Punishment
Cross Poison - Weaker Poison Jab, but slash/stab themed.
Ice Fang - Weaker Ice Punch
Mega Punch - Unimpressive
Muddy Water - Weaker Surf
Thunder Fang - Weaker Thunder Punch

 

[Jho]

Yo with the mid point of the week we have for Argh upon us, I feel its time we start locking down some of our choices. Toxic and Knock Off still seem rather 50/50 so I would like more discussion/input on this - I feel this is the key discussion for Argh going into gen 8.

With that said, I'm going to go over other moves mentioned in the thread:

Darkest Lariat: A few fighting types have this and I think it is at least possible that Arghonaut could run this if it loses Knock Off, in order to check both Dragapult and Aegislash in 1 move slot. Since it is potentially competitive I would like to see more discussion around it. Ignoring stat boosts doesn't matter because of Unaware but just a consistent 85BP dark type move might warrant usage.

Breaking Swipe: I don't see the flavour here, Arghonaut has no access to any dragon moves in its move pool and no Fighting-types learn it. It's also a new coverage option at 60BP on a Technician mon which I am not too fond of. Gonna veto this one.

Hydro Pump & Muddy Water: I think pretty much every Water-type has access to Hydro Pump and Muddy Water in some way now, I don't see Arghonaut ever using these so I am fine with them being a pure flavour addition. Muddy Water has some underhanded tactics pirate flavour too, which is cool.

Toxic Spikes: Far too competitive an addition for this process. Vetoing this.

Nasty Plot: Whilst I dont think this will ever be used, Arghonaut does have technician Vacuum Wave and will likely have access to Hydro Pump. Special Arghonaut will obviously never be good but this addition would make it possible, it has flavour connotations linked with piracy, sure, but I'm not sure giving it a whole, albeit extremely lacklustre, set is within the scope of this. Any comments on this would be good but I'm leaning towards a No.

Body Slam & Body Press: I can get behind both of these, however, Body Press has surprisingly little Fighting-type distribution and is a competitive option, so I would like to see more discussion around this.

Throat Chop: Same sentiments as Darkest Lariat, though this has an upside, I don't think Arghonaut is ever going to risk attacking Sylveon nor will it ever be faster than Kommo-o to stop it setting up.

Ice & Thunder Fang: Arghonaut currently has no biting moves in its movepool and since these would be pure flavour additions, I dont think they are needed.

Assurance: Assurance lets Arghonaut hit the prevalent Ghost-types much harder than it could before even with Knock Off. Whilst it has a pretty wide distribution, I think it could see usage, even over Throat Chop/Darkest Lariat if it got those, I'd like to see other thoughts on this too.

Mega Punch & Cross Poison: I am entirely indifferent on, they fit flavour wise and are not competitive so I see no reason not to add them.

Think I got them all, keep the new TR suggestions coming and remember we also need to discuss where we distribute moves that are no longer TMs. Though this is secondary to finalising the Toxic and Knock off debacle.

 

[MrDollSteak]

Yo with the mid point of the week we have for Argh upon us, I feel its time we start locking down some of our choices. Toxic and Knock Off still seem rather 50/50 so I would like more discussion/input on this - I feel this is the key discussion for Argh going into gen 8.

With that said, I'm going to go over other moves mentioned in the thread:

Darkest Lariat: A few fighting types have this and I think it is at least possible that Arghonaut could run this if it loses Knock Off, in order to check both Dragapult and Aegislash in 1 move slot. Since it is potentially competitive I would like to see more discussion around it. Ignoring stat boosts doesn't matter because of Unaware but just a consistent 85BP dark type move might warrant usage.

I don't really have much more to add on my previous point, but I still stand by keeping Knock Off and losing Toxic. There is in my mind no suitable flavour to justify Toxic. The pokemon that have maintained Toxic in their level up or breeding pools are all Poison types or swampy plants / water types like Wooper, Tympole, Pyukumuku. The least flavorful maintained Toxics are probably Ferroseed and Vullaby, but even then they're barbed or deal with carrion which at least has some kind of relation with poison or acid. Arghonaut is an octopus brawler, not a poisonous sea creature.

Knock Off on the other hand is pretty reasonable for a Pokemon with boxing gloves, a hook and a sword, and as I mentioned previously is on some bulky fighting types like Machamp that I believe has more in common flavorwise with Arghonaut than say Seismitoad.

Darkest Lariat and Throat Chop don't strike me as immediately dangerous, especially if Knock is maintained, and definitely have better flavour than some of the other recommendations, Toxic in particular. Lariat is a wrestling move, and boxing has a lot of similarities sport wise. Chopping throats also makes sense with his thicc arms.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Deck Knight]

The big boys:

Toxic:
Support for: Unaware Water types get it.
Arguments against: Very few Water types get it overall, and no Fighting-types do (bar Toxicroak).

Knock Off:
Support for: Machamp/Sirfetch'd/Passimian get it among Fighting types, Crawduant/Kingler/Pelipper among Water types.
Arguments against: Vastly cut distribution generally.

I think Toxic is more important to Arghonaut's general playstyle, but I like how Knock Off interacts with Bulk Up more. Arghonaut still has Scald to play the long game, or can run a damaging Poison move. Given a choice between one or the other I would vote in favor of retaining Knock Off, as I think Toxic on a Pokemon as strong as Arghonaut moves it from a Decentralizer to a Centralizer. If you want Poison, run Poison Jab/Sludge Bomb/Gunk Shot.

I'd like to keep Knock Off and drop Toxic with this in mind.

New Moves:

Assurance: Assurance gets the Tech boost, which is somewhat concerning but would only be used on Technician sets, which already had access to Punishment last gen and didn't run it. It's otherwise awful on Unaware, as it hits the same or less damage as Waterfall unless it hits super-effectively on the exact turn the opponent switches in while rocks are up. Support.
Body Press: Argh has a couple of options for Fighting attacks on its sets. Circle Throw is used with Spikes Shuffling. Close Combat is currently used with Bulk Up for the sheer damage output, but it undoes the Defense boosts. and leaves SpD vulnerable. What Body Press would do is allow Arghonaut to go full physical defense with Bulk Up and have a consistent damaging move. Interestingly the current CAP Support set in the damage calc works out to 256 Atk/257 Def, so Body Press after a Bulk Up does slightly more than a Close Combat raw, with the advantage of not shredding Argh's defenses. Flavorwise Body Press doesn't have one specific direction, but it is learned by plenty of either physically offensive or generally big and bulky Water types (Blastoise, Drednaw, Lapras, Mantine, Wailord) so it would fit. Body Slam by contrast just has explosive distribution, but it's 1-to-1 with Body Press plus a whole lot more, and especially Fighting types. Support both.
Throat Chop: Definitely a pirate move, definitely a move anything with a sharp claw learns, and lots of Fighting Pokemon get it. Support.


Darkest Lariat: Has some of the lowest distribution around, and the mons that use it fit the profile of a bulky, tall, large upper body Pokemon. Argh doesn't fit that description. Assurance, Knock Off and Throat Chop would all be sufficient and more flavorful. Oppose.

 

[Jho]

A little over 24 hours left for this process so I am going to start finalising things.

Move Additions
+ 1 of Darkest Lariat OR Throat Chop
both of these have support but only a very small group of Mons get both. I am comfortable adding one. I am leaning towards Throat Chop but any further comments on this would be nice.
+ Muddy Water & Hydro Pump
+ Body Slam & Body Press
+ Mega Punch
+ Cross Poison

Move removals
-Toxic
- all other blue moves (unless they get further representation here)

This leaves Knock Off intact, and just leaves us with the task of distributing these moves out and redistributing any blue moves in the OP that we wish to keep so please post with any ideas or suggestions you have for that! We also need to replace the Red moves in the level up pool

 

[MrDollSteak]

A little over 24 hours left for this process so I am going to start finalising things.

Move Additions
+ 1 of Darkest Lariat OR Throat Chop
both of these have support but only a very small group of Mons get both. I am comfortable adding one. I am leaning towards Throat Chop but any further comments on this would be nice.
+ Muddy Water & Hydro Pump
+ Body Slam & Body Press
+ Mega Punch
+ Cross Poison

Move removals
-Toxic
- all other blue moves (unless they get further representation here)

This leaves Knock Off intact, and just leaves us with the task of distributing these moves out and redistributing any blue moves in the OP that we wish to keep so please post with any ideas or suggestions you have for that! We also need to replace the Red moves in the level up pool

While Water Gun isn't technically a move we discussed, I think it's a pretty logical replacement for Bubble as a red move. Otherwise if we're only taking from the blue pool, water pulse would make sense, though its higher base power seems a bit hard to justify flavorwise compared to the currently missing Water Gun.

For a Chip Away replacement, I'd suggest Headbutt, removing it from being an egg move. Most Gen 8 egg move pools are quite small so losing one more there (outside of the TRs) seems ideal.

I'd then put Knock Off at lvl 67. This is a similar style of move to Punishment in terms of being a Dark move with a modified base power.

 

[Jho]

Level Up

Level Up Moves:
- Bubble +Water Gun OR Move Headbutt from Egg moves to here
- Wrap
Evolve: Circle Throw
7 Smokescreen
10 Yawn
14 Arm Thrust
19 Aqua Jet
24 Taunt
30 Chip Away Move Headbutt from Egg moves to here OR Move Power Up Punch from transfer moves to here (I prefer this, it loses PuP otherwise)
35 Mach Punch
40 Scald
46 Revenge
51 Thief
56 Submission
62 Wide Guard
67 Punishment +Knock Off
73 Focus Punch

TMs

TMs:
TM00 - Mega Punch
TM01 - Work Up
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall
TM100 - Confide

TR01 - Body Slam
TR03 - Hydro Pump
TR45 - Muddy Water
TR95 - Throat Chop
TR99 - Body Press

Tutor

Tutor Moves:
Dive
Foul Play
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off Moved to Level Up
Low Kick
Mud Slap
Snore
Superpower
Thunder Punch
Vacuum Wave

The rest of these would be moved to TMs/TRs

Egg Moves

Egg Moves (Water 1 / Water 3):
Bulk Up [ Golisipod / Grapploct / Barbaracle ]
Cross Chop [ Barbaracle ]
Headbutt [ Mantine / Araquanid / Dreadnaw ]
Octazooka [ Octillery / Grapploct ]
Recover [ Milotic / Gastrodon / Toxapex / Quagsire ]
Scary Face [ Dreadnaw / Grapploct ]
Spikes [ Qwilfish / Golisipod ]
Close Combat [ Golisipod / Grapploct ]

Transfer Moves / Old TMs

Brine
Captivate
Cut
Endure
Power Up Punch Moved to Level Up?
Retaliate
Rock Smash
Secret Power
Snatch
Strength
Water Pulse
Whirlpool

Rest would be moved to TMs/TRs

This is what the updated Movepool is looking like, I havent changed the TMs around yet but ill get to that later, just looking for any final opinions or possible changes to this before this process closes in ~18 hours!

 

[Menshay]

As a general rule, in Sword/Shield all (?) egg moves which are also available as tutors have been removed from the egg move pools. In Arghounaut's case they would be Bulk Up, Scary Face, Spikes and Close Combat. Retaliate, Brine, Whirlpool and Endure are also TM/TRs, as are several moves currently listed as tutor moves. Strength also still exists.

 

[Jho]

Strength also still exists.

Strength is only a level up move, apart from on Grookey where it is an egg move. It doesn't fit the egg groups for Arghonaut so unless it is to be a level up move it will be removed.

Bulk Up, Scary Face, Spikes and Close Combat.

You are right, it appears no Pokemon have these as egg moves, thankfully they are all TM/TRs and can simply be moved there.

Retaliate, Brine, Whirlpool, and Endure will move to TM/TRs I just havent done the final juggling, the pool posted above is just to show what moves argh will have access to.

I think all of this should be fine, I'm not sure how large the average TM/TR list is for a standard Pokemon but I think this number should be fine.

e: sidenote; if there is no more feedback on the movepool I posted above, I am going to use Headbutt as the level 0 move to replace bubble, and Power Up Punch at level 30, replacing Chip Away

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

My proposed level up pool!

L1: Circle Throw, Water Gun, Power-Up Punch, Wrap
Evo.: Circle Throw
L7: Smokescreen
L10: Yawn
L14: Arm Thrust
L19: Aqua Jet
L24: Taunt
L30: Headbutt
L35: Mach Punch
L40: Scald
L46: Revenge
L51: Thief
L56: Submission
L62: Wide Guard
L67: Knock Off
L73: Focus Punch

And for egg moves, it'd just be:
Cross Chop, Octazooka and Recover

 

[MrPanda]

I vote for Power-Up Punch replace Bubble.

 

[Menshay]

Strength is only a level up move, apart from on Grookey where it is an egg move. It doesn't fit the egg groups for Arghonaut so unless it is to be a level up move it will be removed.

I just felt important to note this since in the updated movepool Strength appears deleted like actually deleted moves like Snatch (but so does Water Pulse, I just noticed); I did not mean I thought it should be necessarily preserved.

As for replacements,
- Headbutt is never starting move for basic Pokémon, which would be implied here. Considering it is usually learnt at level 15-30 I would put it instead of Chip Away.
- Power-Up Punch can be an egg move (Lucario [Field] -> Wooper [Field/Water 1] -> Privatyke [Water 1/Water 3])

 

[Jho]

Thank you to those who participated, I'm going to lock this thread and use everything said to make the updated movepool for Arghonaut which I will edit in here later.

 

[Jho]

Level Up

Level Up Moves:
Evolve: Circle Throw
- Circle Throw
- Vacuum Wave
- Water Gun
- Wrap
- Smokescreen
- Yawn
14 Arm Thrust
19 Aqua Jet
24 Taunt
30 Headbutt
35 Mach Punch
40 Scald
46 Revenge
51 Thief
56 Submission
62 Wide Guard
67 Knock Off
73 Focus Punch

TMs

TMs:
TM00 - Mega Punch
TM04 - Ice Punch
TM05 - Thunder Punch
TM08 - Hyper Beam
TM09 - Giga Impact
TM19 - Safeguard
TM21 - Rest
TM22 - Rock Slide
TM23 - Thief
TM24 - Snore
TM25 - Protect
TM26 - Scary Face
TM27 - Icy Wind
TM31 - Attract
TM33 - Rain Dance
TM35 - Hail
TM36 - Whirlpool
TM39 - Facade
TM43 - Brick Break
TM45 - Dive
TM48 - Rock Tomb
TM55 - Brine
TM59 - Fling
TM63 - Drain Punch
TM73 - Cross Poison
TM75 - Low Sweep
TM79 - Retaliate
TM76 - Round
TM81 - Bulldoze
TM94 - False Swipe

TR01 - Body Slam
TR03 - Hydro Pump
TR04 - Surf
TR05 - Ice Beam
TR06 - Blizzard
TR07 - Low Kick
TR10 - Earthquake
TR16 - Waterfall
TR20 - Substitute
TR22 - Sludge Bomb
TR23 - Spikes
TR26 - Endure
TR27 - Sleep Talk
TR37 - Taunt
TR39 - Superpower
TR45 - Muddy Water
TR48 - Bulk Up
TR53 - Close Combat
TR57 - Poison Jab
TR73 - Gunk Shot
TR75 - Stone Edge
TR81 - Foul Play
TR84 - Scald
TR85 - Work Up
TR95 - Throat Chop
TR99 - Body Press

Egg Moves

Egg Moves (Water 1 / Water 3):
Cross Chop [ Barbaracle ]
Octazooka [ Octillery / Grapploct ]
Power-Up Punch [ Quagsire ]
Recover [ Milotic / Gastrodon / Toxapex / Quagsire ]

This is the Gen 8 movepool I've come up with using everyone's input and general logic. I must admit I made a mistake and thought Vacuum Wave was a TR, which it is not. It is not available to Arghonaut as an Egg move so I have added it to its Level 1 moves, which is where Hitmonchan also learns it. Since that's a rather large change made post thread locking, feel free to let me know if there's any issue with it and we can work it out.

Other than that, I'm pretty sure I got everything though if you feel there's anything I've missed please let me know

 

[dhelmise]

1 - Circle Throw
1 - Vacuum Wave
1 - Water Gun
1 - Wrap
1 - Smokescreen
1 - Yawn
14 - Arm Thrust
19 - Aqua Jet
24 - Taunt
30 - Headbutt
35 - Mach Punch
37 - Circle Throw
40 - Scald
46 - Revenge
51 - Thief
56 - Submission
62 - Wide Guard
67 - Knock Off
73 - Focus Punch
Egg - Cross Chop
Egg - Octazooka
Egg - Power-Up Punch
Egg - Recover
TM/TR - Mega Punch
TM/TR - Ice Punch
TM/TR - Thunder Punch
TM/TR - Hyper Beam
TM/TR - Giga Impact
TM/TR - Safeguard
TM/TR - Rest
TM/TR - Rock Slide
TM/TR - Thief
TM/TR - Snore
TM/TR - Protect
TM/TR - Scary Face
TM/TR - Icy Wind
TM/TR - Attract
TM/TR - Rain Dance
TM/TR - Hail
TM/TR - Whirlpool
TM/TR - Facade
TM/TR - Brick Break
TM/TR - Dive
TM/TR - Rock Tomb
TM/TR - Brine
TM/TR - Fling
TM/TR - Drain Punch
TM/TR - Cross Poison
TM/TR - Low Sweep
TM/TR - Retaliate
TM/TR - Round
TM/TR - Bulldoze
TM/TR - False Swipe
TM/TR - Body Slam
TM/TR - Hydro Pump
TM/TR - Surf
TM/TR - Ice Beam
TM/TR - Blizzard
TM/TR - Low Kick
TM/TR - Earthquake
TM/TR - Waterfall
TM/TR - Substitute
TM/TR - Sludge Bomb
TM/TR - Spikes
TM/TR - Endure
TM/TR - Sleep Talk
TM/TR - Taunt
TM/TR - Superpower
TM/TR - Muddy Water
TM/TR - Bulk Up
TM/TR - Close Combat
TM/TR - Poison Jab
TM/TR - Gunk Shot
TM/TR - Stone Edge
TM/TR - Foul Play
TM/TR - Scald
TM/TR - Work Up
TM/TR - Throat Chop
TM/TR - Body Press