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Time for Battle Tower Doubles team number 4. This one has more of a novelty feeling to it, but the excellent synergy between the Pokémon on the team still makes it quite the consistent team, probably ranking somewhere in between the 'Turn 1 Victory' team and the Follow Me + Belly Drum Poliwrath one (closer to the latter), the order of those being obvious.
The purpose of this team was to optimize removing Slaking's ability. There are so many ways to do that… I've seen Pure Power Skill Swap chains, but these take too long and similar results can be achieved in other ways, for example by just boosting Slaking's Attack in another way. Then there's Levitate + EQ, Synchronize Slaking, Tank strategies with Amnesia, Safeguard + Swagger, Natural Cure, and many more. The most important aspect of getting Slaking to work is actually what its teammates do besides using Skill Swap, and how well that synergizes with which Pokémon Slaking destroys during or after the setup. In competitive environments, this team would be a joke for sure. Another important thing to keep in mind is the question "is slaking providing something unique here, or is the team REALLY novelty?" For example, Swagger strategies can be used with other Pokémon such as Tauros or Salamence. This is why I made use of Slaking's other stats as well; I really think Slaking fits the team, as stupid as that may sound since the original idea was to build around it. Hope you know what I mean ;)
Here is my tried-and-true result (I admit Xatu is not very recognizeable in the picture below):
Aerodactyl @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpD
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
General Team Discussion
Ideally, Xatu uses Swagger on turn 1, during which the Persim-healed Slaking tries to eliminate the most important threat(s) using one of its attacking moves. Xatu is faster than Slaking for this reason. Due to the offensive presence of Slaking, and Xatu being relatively bulky, both Pokémon should survive turn 1, so that Xatu can use Skill Swap next turn, letting Slaking continue is onslaught. If Xatu still lives on turn 3, it can either wait a turn, for example if it wants to use Skill Swap on an opponent, or switch out if that is expected to be more effective later. Xatu is the only viable Pokémon that remains immune to EQ after using Skill Swap, and even though it's quite underrated it has just enough stats to fulfill all the tasks here. Gengar and Aerodactyl form the optimal backup in my opinion, but I don't think that discussion belongs to 'general team discussion'.
Strategies and on the Pokémon individually
The star of the team, Slaking, has a standard and fully offensive spread. This is really a matter of a 'best defense is offense' situation, maximizing the probability that both leads survive on turn 1. Swagger-boosted Return and Earthquake OHKO so many Pokémon. To compare, note that +2 Return is about 13% stronger than a Choice Banded Double-Edge, and we all know how many Pokémon are OHKOed by that. It is important to prevent recoil damage here, as Slaking will be taking hits as well in this environment. Bulk Up and Rest give access to a more long-term strategy, making use of the Early Bird ability Slaking receives. It can be used against physically (defensively) strong opponents that cannot be OHKOed easily, but also won't break Slaking's boosted Defense, such as against Forretress, Scizor, Shuckle, Cradily, Armaldo and sometimes stuff like Regirock and Tyranitar, depending on their allies. This is where Xatu's 'filler move', Light Screen, comes in handy too in some situations, for example against bulky waters or other bulkier specialists.
Xatu hits 300 Speed to outspeed Slaking and a majority of opponents. Its bulk guarantees it survives many important faster non-crit Thunderbolts, such as Gengars. Lum Berry is to make 'as sure as possible' that Xatu can use Skill Swap on Slaking. Against Raikou or Jolteon, however, it is better to switch out to Gengar on turn 1 while Slaking Earthquakes them away (especially Jolteon, since it outspeeds Gengar). This explains the specific Cheri Berry on Gengar. Gengar is a backup Skill Swapper AND Swagger-user, should Xatu not be able to use both moves on Slaking. The worst case scenario is when Slaking gets Swaggered by Xatu, but Xatu faints due to e.g. a surprise Quick Claw next turn. This situation should be avoided at all costs.
The last Pokémon, Aerodactyl, outspeeds the faster threats to the team such as the aforementioned Electric-types, OHKOes the Levitate Ghost-types that Slaking can't touch, and can use EQ alongside Slaking when it received Levitate from Gengar or when it has used (multiple) Bulk Up(s). As usual, Rock Slide can be used to fish for flinches if necessary. Gengar and Aerodactyl together have a good haymaker effect, and saved many pinch scenarios already. This is also the reason Gengar is not made more bulky; sometimes the offensive output is just the most important (for example when Gengar and Aerodactyl have to get rid of a bulky water together). Psychic on Gengar is a second option for opposing Gengar, but generally Ice Punch provides better coverage. A Flying-STAB such as Aerial Ace is not so important here as in the Poliwrath team, because most passive Double-Teamers lose to 'long-term Slaking' anyway and here the damage output is more important than merely hitting them.
Useful strategies
Keeping Xatu alive to help Gengar and Aerodactyl later if Slaking should faint too early; don't underestimate the power of Psychic;
When in serious trouble, a decent last resort option is sometimes to use Swagger on Aerodactyl, or use Swagger against an opponent. This is why Safeguard is mentioned as a second option on Xatu;
If extra momentum is needed, Slaking can OHKO its ally Gengar with EQ on the turn it Skill Swaps. This also prevents a 'do-nothing' turn on Gengar's side;
Xatu can use Skill Swap against opposing Levitate users on the turn Slaking uses EQ (mostly on turn 1 or 2); this way Slaking can defeat opposing Gengar for example. Cannot be combined with Light Screen on turn 1, so keep track of the 'loafing around' turns;
In some cases, it is better to switch out Slaking turn 1 and save it for later. Especially when Fire-types are around that might outspeed Slaking, such as Charizard and Typhlosion. Just switch to Aerodactyl and use Light Screen, for example. Note that Gengar has good type synergy with Slaking, so the AI can easily be fooled if it wants to use Fighting- or Ghost-type moves;
Watch out when clicking Earthquake on Aerodactyl if Gengar doesn't have Levitate. If needed, try to Skill Swap the non-Levitate ability away when Aerodactyl comes in. Sometimes it is needed to anticipate an ally's fainting for this.
Threats
As discussed, powerful Thunderbolt users should be detected and dealt with. Tyranitar hampers Slaking's longevity significantly, it can use Crunch against Xatu and Gengar can't really touch it. Especially if Quick Claw activates on an unlucky turn, it's very dangerous. For the remainder, being unlucky with status on Slaking, such as full paralysis or freeze can spell doom, although it has Rest and with only one sleeping turn, it's quite difficult for the opponent to actually beat it, especially with the offensive presence of Gengar and Aerodactyl around.
A shorter-than-usual analysis indeed, but I think that's it. I'm curious to hear your opinion. Here is a sample streak as usual.
Thanks for reading!
Your posts are great. I've always been more into Multi myself (working on a streak currently I'll post about eventually) but I love reading about unconventional strategies. I have tried a few Doubles teams in the past but I'm much more inclined to just run 4 sweepers and wipe everything out - guess I don't have the patience for longer strategies.
Back home this weekend and got my hands on my original Emerald cartridge so can amend my Dome Singles record to 26 straight tournaments! I also managed to push my Pike record up to a very respectable 257 rooms; new target is 300. Little by little!
Your posts are great. I've always been more into Multi myself (working on a streak currently I'll post about eventually) but I love reading about unconventional strategies. I have tried a few Doubles teams in the past but I'm much more inclined to just run 4 sweepers and wipe everything out - guess I don't have the patience for longer strategies.
Back home this weekend and got my hands on my original Emerald cartridge so can amend my Dome Singles record to 26 straight tournaments! I also managed to push my Pike record up to a very respectable 257 rooms; new target is 300. Little by little!
Those are some very respectable numbers, greentyphlosion. I'm glad you enjoy my write-ups and my teams. I've got many to follow, and I wouldn't be writing them if guys like you didn't read them. Good luck on your cartridge streaks!
Actaeon, another well thought out doubles team. I love Gen 3 doubles, so I'll definitely be trying out your teams when I get the chance.
Two Pokemon I've always wanted to make work in a doubles team are Minun and Plusle. It would definitely be a novelty team, but it would be interesting to make a team around the mascots of double battles. Just wondering if you had some ideas with them to make full use of their unique abilities.
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I have been working on getting all the Gold Symbols on my save file over the last few weeks, and I currently have 6 out of 7. I only have the Factory left to go, and I want to be thorough with it and attempt to make a start on some form of tier list of what sets to pick and what to avoid.
Just a note before I share my streaks. They were all done at Level 50, as it has more benefits than drawbacks in most of the facilities. Mainly Dragonite and Tyranitar do not appear on opponent's teams, as well as Sitrus Berry and Hyper Potions being more effective with lower max HP.
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Teams Overview
Battle Dome: / /
Battle Palace: / /
Battle Arena: / /
Battle Pike:
/ /
Battle Pyramid: /
/
Honourable Mentions: / /
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Battle Tower
I'm not submitting a streak since I used Kommo-o's Team Azure to achieve the Gold Symbol, and have since reset the streak in preparation for the Factory. The only changes I made to his original team was the EV spread for Latios. I moved a few EVs from SpA into the defenses to guarantee survival from a few specific threats, mainly Ursaring. The reduction in SpA doesn't make Latios miss any important KOs, and I like to play knowing I can survive things 100%.
Kommo-o's Spread: 28 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
My Spread: 12 HP / 28 Def / 236 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
Latios is the king of the Battle Frontier. With this team, Latios is generally the chosen lead and is able to sweep through many of the teams you'll face in the Dome. Psychic and Dragon Claw give Latios strong and reliable STABs, while Thunderbolt helps with coverage against all the Water-types, in particular Lapras and Walrein. With these three attacks, Latios can hit every Pokemon at least neutrally except Steelix, Magneton and Shedinja. Calm Mind allows Latios to set up against Pokemon that pose no threat to it, and at +1 it is able to achieve a lot of OHKOs. Lum Berry is to deal with status, and to give Latios a free turn of set up. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and 220 Spe hits 183 which allows Latios to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Near max SpA allows Latios to do as much damage as possible. The defense EVs allows Latios to survive some important attacks, in particular threats such as Ursaring. Below are some damage calcs to show the extent of its bulk.
255+ SpA Articuno Ice Beam vs. 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (132, 134, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 148, 149, 151, 152, 154, 156)
255 SpA Dewgong Blizzard vs. +1 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 66-78 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (66, 67, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78)
0+ SpA Walrein Blizzard vs. +1 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 66-78 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (66, 67, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78)
Metagross is the best Steel-type in the Battle Frontier, and synergises well with Latios. Metagross makes a good lead when the opponent's team doesn't have any threats to take it out, as it can easily take out both of the opponent's Pokemon with Explosion. As for the moveset, Meteor Mash gives Metagross a solid STAB and Earthquake + Rock Slide give it good physical coverage. Explosion allows Metagross to take out the opponent when low on health, and can be useful to take out a potential threat to your Pokemon in the back. Persim Berry is to deal with confusion, which is potentially the most frustrating status. It can come in handy, turning a Swagger into a sweep. It can be changed to another item if you feel confusion is not an issue. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Metagross to do as much damage as possible, while max Spe hits 122 which allows Metagross to outspeed uninvested base 100s. 4 SpD allows Metagross to survive two Thunderbolts from max SpA base 130s, such as Gengar and Latios.
255+ SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
255+ SpA Latios Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
Milotic is a solid defensive Water-type, and chosen for its resilience to complete the Dragon / Steel / Water core. Surf and Ice Beam are standard, giving Milotic a reliable STAB and coverage for the Dragon- and Grass-types that might give Latios and Metagross trouble. Toxic + Recover allows Milotic to stall out a lot of sets, in particular other Water-types that can be a threat to the team. Leftovers is saved for the bulkiest member of the team, and helps to improve Milotic's longevity. As for the nature and EVs, Bold and max Def gives Milotic balanced defensive stats and allows it to survive strong physical hits that might get past Latios. The SpD investment allows Milotic to survive Thunder from max SpA 115s, such as Raikou 2 and Ampharos 1.
255 SpA Magnet Ampharos Thunder vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Milotic: 170-200 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200)
255+ SpA Raikou Thunder vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Milotic: 170-200 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200)
My streak is currently 10 tournaments. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
For both of Tucker's battles, Swampert just spammed Counter / Mirror Coat while I set up four Calm Minds with Latios and proceeded to sweep through his team.
Salamence is a strong Pokemon in the Battle Frontier, and is chosen over Latios since the rest of the team is part Psychic-type. Salamence is the chosen lead of the team due to its good speed tier and Intimdate, and can sweep through teams that don't have an answer to its coverage. Dragon Claw and Flamethrower are to give Salamence 100% accurate moves, a solid STAB, and good coverage. Special moves are chosen over physical moves for the opponent's Intimidate and to give the team better type coverage. Aerial Ace is to give Salamence an option against special walls and Double Team users, and is chosen over HP [Flying] since the AI treats it as Normal-type move. Protect is for the chance that Salamence chooses a defensive move and keep it safe for the turn. Salamence has no supportive moves since the better type coverage is more important than the slim chance that it doesn't make a move. Lum Berry is to deal with status, and to allow Salamence to maintain its speed for at least two turns. As for the nature and EVs, Hasty is to give Salamence the best chance to use an offensive move. Max Spe hits 167 which allows Salamence to tie with neutral nature base 115s like Raikou and Starmie, and outspeeds Gengar 1. Max SpA allows Salamence to do as much damage as possible. 4 HP EVs gives Salamence the best chance to survive any attacks that have a chance of a OHKO.
Metagross is the best Steel-type in the Battle Frontier, and synergises well with Dragon-types such as Salamence. Earthquake + Rock Slide give it good physical coverage. Psychic is chosen to give Metagross a reliable STAB, and to give it an option against physical walls and some Pokemon with Levitate. Protect is for the chance that Metagross chooses a defensive move and keep it safe for the turn. Metagross has no supportive moves since the better type coverage is more important than the slim chance that it doesn't make a move. Persim Berry is to deal with confusion, which is potentially the most frustrating status. It can come in handy, turning a Swagger into a sweep. It can be changed to another item if you feel confusion is not an issue. As for the nature and EVs, Hasty is to give Metagross the best chance to use an offensive move. Max Spe hits 134 which allows Metagross to tie with max Spe base 70s such as Breloom 1, as well as outspeed Gyarados 2 and neutral nature max Spe 80s. Max Atk allows Metagross to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Metagross to survive two Thunderbolts from max SpA base 130s, such as Gengar and Latios.
255+ SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
255+ SpA Latios Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
Starmie is the chosen Water-type for the team due to its high speed tier and great coverage. Surf, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are standard and give Starmie a solid STAB along with good coverage. Protect is for the chance that Starmie chooses a defensive move and keep it safe for the turn. Starmie has no supportive moves since the better type coverage is more important than the slim chance that it doesn't make a move. Bright Powder is to make Starmie harder to take down, but it can easily be changed to something else like Leftovers. As for the nature and EVs, Hasty is to give Starmie the best chance to use an offensive move. Max Spe hits 183 which allows Starmie to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Starmie to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Starmie to survive Thunderbolt from max SpA base 100s such as Regice and Starmie.
255+ SpA Regice Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
0+ SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
255+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 56-67 (41.4 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (56, 57, 58, 58, 59, 60, 60, 61, 62, 62, 63, 64, 64, 65, 66, 67)
My streak is currently 42 wins. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
For Spenser's battles, I switched around a lot to use Salamence's Intimidate for Slaking, and to get Starmie safely in against his Water-types. Starmie was lucky against Spenser's Lapras, with it going down in three hits and missing all its Horn Drills. Suicune wasn't really an issue since it has no recovery and I was able to waste its Blizzard's PP with switching between my Pokemon.
Battle Arena
Metagross @ Persim Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
- Explosion
Metagross is the best Steel-type in the Battle Frontier, and forms a solid core with the best Dragon-types available, Latios and Salamence. Metagross is the chosen lead of the team due to having Explosion to easily take out Greta's Gold Symbol Umbreon and any major threats to Latios. Earthquake + Rock Slide give it good physical coverage. Aerial Ace gives Metagross a reliable physical option against Double Teamer users and Grass-types, in particular Breloom and Ludicolo. Explosion allows Metagross to take down a potentially problem Pokemon like Lapras or Walrein, or take out the opponent's second Pokemon if it won't survive the three turns. The way the scoring works in the Battle Arena is that it is favourable to use accurate, super effective attacks, so if up against a defensive Pokemon with evasion or recovery you want to make sure you always use the super effective move to win the Mind and Skill categories. Persim Berry is to deal with confusion, which is potentially the most frustrating status, especially with no switching. It can come in handy, turning a Swagger into a sweep. It can be changed to another item if you feel confusion is not an issue. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Metagross to do as much damage as possible, while 92 Spe hits 102 which allows Metagross to outspeed all Gyarados and Milotic sets except Gyarados 2. The rest goes into HP to give better overall bulk, with 4 Def and SpD give an extra stat for the cost of 1 HP. Additionally, the 4 SpD allows Metagross to avoid the OHKO from Houndoom 1.
170 SpA Houndoom Flamethrower vs. 156 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 147-174 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (147, 149, 151, 153, 154, 156, 158, 160, 161, 163, 165, 167, 168, 170, 172, 174)
Latios is the king of the Battle Frontier. Latios covers all of Metagross's weaknesses, and if Metagross does its job and takes out two Pokemon, Latios comes in and cleans up. Psychic is the reliable STAB of choice, and Ice Beam + Thunderbolt gives Latios the best coverage possible. With these three attacks, Latios can hit every Pokemon at least neutrally except Magneton and Shedinja. Fly seems like an interesting choice, but the Battle Arena does not favour setting up in battle, so Calm Mind has limited use. Two turn moves that have a semi-invulnerable turn, like Dig, Dive, and Fly, are interesting in the Battle Arena. They count as a successful attack for both turns they take while the opponent will miss at least one turn (with the exception of the move missing or the opponent using a move that hits during the semi-invulnerable turn), which gives you the point advantage in the Mind category. Also after the three turns, all Pokemon are pulled out the semi-invulnerable turn for the judging. This allows you to use Fly on the third turn to avoid an attack without losing points if you aren't able to knock out the opponent's Pokemon. Do note that it's not a perfect tactic, but it's another option to help get you out of a sticky situation. Lum Berry is to deal with status since there is no switching. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and 220 Spe hits 183 which allows Latios to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Near max SpA allows Latios to do as much damage as possible. The defense EVs allows Latios to survive some important attacks, in particular threats such as Ursaring. Below are some damage calcs to show the extent of its bulk.
255+ SpA Articuno Ice Beam vs. 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (132, 134, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 148, 149, 151, 152, 154, 156)
Starmie is the chosen Water-type for the team due to its high speed tier and great coverage, which helps in the Battle Arena. Surf, Psychic, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are standard and give Starmie two solid STABs along with good coverage. The moves are pretty straightforward, you want to always go for the move that hits super effectively to help with the scoring if you survive the three turns. Bright Powder is to make Starmie harder to take down, but it can easily be changed to something else like Leftovers. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and max Spe hits 183 which allows Starmie to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Starmie to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Starmie to survive Thunderbolt from max SpA base 100s such as Regice and Starmie.
255+ SpA Regice Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
0+ SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
255+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 56-67 (41.4 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (56, 57, 58, 58, 59, 60, 60, 61, 62, 62, 63, 64, 64, 65, 66, 67)
My streak is currently 56 wins. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
For Greta's Silver Symbol battle, Metagross Aerial Ace'd Heracross, exploded on Umbreon, and Latios finished off Shedinja with Fly.
For Greta's Gold Symbol battle, Metagross exploded on Umbreon since Metagross can't 3HKO and the rest of the team don't want to deal with it if Metagross loses due to judging, and Latios swept through the rest of the team.
Starmie is the chosen Water-type for the team due to having Natural Cure, as well as its high speed and coverage to sweep through Lucy's teams. Surf, Psychic, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are standard and give Starmie two solid STABs along with good coverage. Recover is not needed since Blissey is on the team, and the coverage is more important. Bright Powder is to make Starmie harder to take down, and since single use items like Lum Berry are not recovered after battles they would get used up easily. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and max Spe hits 183 which allows Starmie to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Starmie to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Starmie to survive Thunderbolt from max SpA base 100s such as Regice and Starmie.
255+ SpA Regice Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
0+ SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
255+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 56-67 (41.4 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (56, 57, 58, 58, 59, 60, 60, 61, 62, 62, 63, 64, 64, 65, 66, 67)
Heracross is on the team since it helps against the special walls that Starmie struggles with, and it is a strong Guts user that is able to turn a burn or poison into a sweep. Brick Break is for a reliable STAB, and Earthquake + Rock Slide give good physical coverage. Megahorn is the strongest option Heracross has, but with its shaky accuracy it should only be used when no other move is appropriate. Perism Berry is for confusion, the one status that doesn't activate Guts, and allows Heracross to use the Swagger from Lucy's Seviper to sweep through her team. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Heracross to do as much damage as possible. Max Spe hits 137 which outspeeds uninvested base 115s such as Raikou and Starmie. 4 Def allows Heracross to live Aerial Ace from Golduck 4 and avoid the 2HKO from Armaldo 3. Additionally, the 4 EVs can be moved to SpD to survive Overheat from Exploud 3.
255+ Atk Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 64-76 (41.2 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (64, 65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 69, 70, 71, 72, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76)
4 SpD:
255 SpA Exploud Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heracross: 130-154 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (130, 132, 133, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 144, 146, 147, 149, 150, 152, 154)
Blissey is a solid Pokemon in the Battle Pike, since it has access to Softboiled and Aromatherapy to keep its teammates healthy and free from status. Seismic Toss and Flamethrower are the chosen offensive moves for Blissey for overall consistency, and allows Blissey to handle the Grass- and Steel-types that Starmie and Heracross might struggle with. Toxic is not chosen since it leaves Blissey walled by Gengar, and is too passive for how the team works. Aromatherapy and Softboiled are the main reason Blissey is used on the team, as it allows you to restore HP of a teammate outside of battle and remove status conditions if you can switch it in safely. Leftovers is an obvious choice for Blissey, as it improves its overall longevity. As for the nature and EVs, Bold and max Def makes Blissey as physically bulky as possible. 228 HP lets Blissey hit a max HP of 359, which allows Blissey to survive an Explosion from Exeggutor 4 and Cross Chop from Machamp 3 & 4. Although very unlikely to happen, 359 HP along with Leftovers allows Blissey to survive 12 consecutive Seismic Tosses without needing to use Softboiled. 20 SpA hits 98, which allows Blissey to 2HKO Exeggutor 4 with Flamethrower, and along with the 4 Spe, Exeggutor 4 only has one turn to choose Explosion. 4 Spe hits 76, which allows Blissey to outspeed uninvested base 55s like Blissey, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Ursaring. 4 SpD is to not waste the leftover EVs.
255 Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 228 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 302-356 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (302, 306, 309, 313, 316, 320, 323, 327, 331, 334, 338, 341, 345, 348, 352, 356)
Offensive:
20 SpA Blissey Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 85-100 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100)
My streak is currently 140 rooms cleared. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
The Battle Pike is the easiest facility to get the Gold Symbol. My main strategy was to check what the lady standing outside the three rooms says. If she says "Is it...A Trainer? I sense the presence of people...", avoid the room she mentioned and chose any other room. If she says anything else, enter the room she mentions. This quote hints at the possibility of a single battle without healing after, which is the worst possible outcome. My team can handle status and wild Pokemon, and double battles are in the player's favour.
For both of Lucy's battles, Starmie was able to sweep through both her teams.
Alakazam is the main Pokemon of the team, being the fastest legal Pokemon with access to Teleport. The main strategy of the team is to Teleport from wild battles while collecting items off the ground and battling any trainers. Psychic gives Alakazam a solid STAB, and Fire Punch + ThunderPunch covers the Pokemon that resist Psychic and could give the team trouble. Generally, Alakazam doesn't wanna stay in on trainer battles since it's frail and its main role is to avoid wild encounters. Alakazam is usually given Bright Powder, Focus Band, or Lum Berry to hold since they all help it to avoid crippling status and surviving. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and 212 Spe hits 183 which allows Alakazam to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Alakazam to do as much damage as possible, while the defensive EVs give it slightly better physical bulk. Overall, Alakazam should avoid taking attacks because the team can struggle if it faints and you don't have any Revives.
Salamence is the offensive presence of the team, and it can be useful to switch it to the lead spot if you're about to battle a trainer. Hidden Power [Flying] gives Salamence a reliable STAB, and not much wants to take it when you've got a Choice Band. Earthquake + Rock Slide give Salamence good physical coverage, and Brick Break is useful to break through the special walls that can give the team problems. Salamence is the main recipient of any Choice Bands you find, but Lum Berry is sufficient if you aren't able to get one. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Salamence to do as much damage as possible. Max Spe hits 152 which allows Salamence to tie with neutral nature max Spe base 100s and outspeed uninvested base 130s. The HP EVs give Salamence the best chance to survive any attacks that have a chance to OHKO.
Blissey is a solid Pokemon in the Battle Pyramid, since it has access to Softboiled and Aromatherapy to keep its teammates healthy and free from status. Seismic Toss and Ice Beam are the chosen offensive moves for Blissey for overall consistency, and allows Blissey to handle the Dragon-types that give Salamence trouble. Ice Beam also allows Blissey to handle Brandon's Gold Symbol team with ease. Toxic is not chosen since it leaves Blissey walled by Gengar, and is too passive for how the team works. Aromatherapy and Softboiled are the main reason Blissey is used on the team, as it allows you to restore HP of a teammate outside of battle and remove status conditions if you can switch it in safely. Any Leftovers you find go straight to Blissey to help it stick around. As for the nature and EVs, Bold and max Def makes Blissey as physically bulky as possible. 228 HP lets Blissey hit a max HP of 359, which allows Blissey to survive an Explosion from Exeggutor 4 and Cross Chop from Machamp 3 & 4. Although very unlikely to happen, 359 HP along with Leftovers allows Blissey to survive 12 consecutive Seismic Tosses without needing to use Softboiled. 20 SpA hits 98, which allows Blissey to 2HKO Exeggutor 4 with Ice Beam, and along with the 4 Spe, Exeggutor 4 only has one turn to choose Explosion. 4 Spe hits 76, which allows Blissey to outspeed uninvested base 55s like Blissey, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Ursaring. 4 SpD is to not waste the leftover EVs.
255 Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 228 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 302-356 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (302, 306, 309, 313, 316, 320, 323, 327, 331, 334, 338, 341, 345, 348, 352, 356)
Offensive:
20 SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 85-100 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100)
Linoone is used in the Battle Pyramid for one thing, its access to Pickup. This allows you to get items after each battle, and since you don't enter with held items, the items found in the Battle Pyramid can be crucial to success. Linoone is switched in for Blissey in Round 2, as Pickup has a chance to get a Choice Band or Leftovers during this round. For this team to work at its best, you must finish Round 2 with at least one Choice Band, and having a Leftovers is also helpful. As for Linoone's set, Return gives it a reliable STAB with high PP if it's needed to finish off a Pokemon. Shadow Ball allows it to hit Ghost-types, and Hidden Power [Ground] gives it an option against Rock- and Steel-types. Surf is mainly for Rock/Ground-types and other physically bulky Pokemon that are 4x weak to it. As for the nature and EVs, Jolly and 228 Spe hits 163 which allows Linoone to outspeed neutral natured max Spe base 110s such as Espeon and Gengar. Max Atk allows Linoone to do as much damage as possible, and the rest are put into HP for better mixed bulk.
Machamp is used in Round 3 since it is a strong Guts user, and with a Choice Band + Guts it can sweep through Brandon's Silver Symbol team. Machamp is used over Heracross since it isn't weak to Fire-types, which most of the wild Pokemon are. Machamp is switched in for Salamence in Round 3, since its the first round you face Brandon and some of the wild Pokemon have access to Will-O-Wisp. For Round 3, you want to try and switch Machamp in to get burnt and then resume using Teleport to avoid wild battles. The best Pokemon to switch in against are Vulpix on Floor 1 & 2, Ninetales on Floor 1, 2, 3, & 4, and Weezing on Floor 3, 4, 5, 6, & 7. Dusclops should be avoided since it has Mean Look and Confuse Ray which can cause trouble. As for Machamp's set, it is standard for a Choice Band set. Brick Break is the chosen STAB for reliability and PP over power. Hidden Power [Ghost] allows Machamp to hit Ghost-types, Earthquake is a solid physical option, and Facade is a very strong option once you manage to get Machamp burnt. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Machamp to do as much damage as possible, and lets Machamp to OHKO Brandon's Regirock with a Choice Band and a burn. 244 Spe hits 106 which allows Machamp to outspeed uninvested base 85s such as Articuno and Kingdra. The rest are put in HP for better mixed bulk.
Choice Band / Burn:
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Brick Break vs. 106 HP / 152 Def Regice: 185-218 (110.1 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (185, 187, 189, 191, 194, 196, 198, 200, 202, 204, 207, 209, 211, 213, 215, 218)
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Brick Break vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 119-140 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 126, 127, 128, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 137, 138, 140)
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Brick Break vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 153-180 (87.9 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (153, 154, 156, 158, 160, 162, 163, 165, 167, 169, 171, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180)
Sharpedo is used for the rounds where Alakazam is unable to use Teleport. Sharpedo is switched in for Alakazam in Round 6 & 9, and is used because it is able to handle the wild Pokemon found in these rounds. Sharpedo is able to OHKO all Diglett, Dugtrio, and Trapinch with Surf, and is immune to Mirror Coat from Wynaut and Wobbuffet. Just like with Alakazam, Sharpedo should avoid participating in the trainer battles becuase the team will struggle against the wild Pokemon if Sharpedo faints and you don't have any Revives. As for Sharpedo's set, Surf and Crunch gives it two reliable STABs that can take out the Arena Trap and Shadow Tag Pokemon, respectively. Ice Beam is to give Sharpedo coverage if it needs to battle against a trainer, and helps finish off any Dragon-types that give Salamence trouble. Taunt is for any Wobbuffet that survive Crunch and use Destiny Bond, which stops it from using it again and taking Sharpedo down with it. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and max Spe hits 161 which allows Sharpedo to outspeed uninvested Electrode. Max SpA allows Sharpedo to do as much damage as possible, and the rest goes into HP for better mixed bulk.
My streak is currently 70 floors cleared. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
The Battle Pyramid is my new favourite facility in the Battle Frontier. I like the idea of having to manage my team and their PP, as well as my items.
For Brandon's Silver Symbol battle, I used Machamp and was able to sweep through his team in three turns. I set up for it by having Machamp burnt by the wild Pokemon and getting a Choice Band in Round 2.
For Brandon's Gold Symbol battle, Alakazam took out Articuno with ThunderPunch and then Blissey took down both Zapdos and Moltres.
Also, I've been looking into how the game generates the layout for each floor in the Battle Pyramid since I couldn't find it anywhere online.
Each floor is a 4 x 4 square and each of the 16 sections are randomly selected from a selection of 16 different layouts, with the spawn point and exit tile being in a regular location. So I feel it will be useful to make some maps for the warp tile locations so you know where to look for the exit. I'll make them and upload them to imgur when I get a chance in the next week or so.
Allright, fifth post about Battle Tower Doubles. The team I discuss today is another take on using Follow Me. Originally, the idea was to use Clefable, the most bulky Follow Me user, alongside a Swords Dance Ninjask. However, just as with the Poliwrath team, rule number one of using Follow Me against the AI is to keep Rock Slides, Blizzards, Surfs, Earthquakes and Explosions in mind. If both opponents use a 'spread move' and the second one is Rock Slide, Ninjask is dead.
After many hours of testing different ways to boost (offensive) stats like Calm Mind, Swords Dance and Dragon Dance, it seems Dragon Dance is the way to go. Here's the Follow Me + Dragon Dance + Psych Up team!
Clefable (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Calm Nature
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Safeguard
- Magical Leaf
General Team Discussion
Gyarados makes the best use of Clefable's company for a number of reasons. Intimidate lets Clefable run a specially defensive set, optimizing its bulk on both sides of the spectrum. Furthermore, Intimidate takes away any White Herbs of those Pokémon that like to use Overheat. Gyarados resists Surf, is immune to Earthquake and doesn't take notable damage from Blizzard (something that can't be said about the 'similar' Salamence). Plenty of Rock Slides can be shrugged off thanks to Intimidate and the unusually physically defense set Gyarados runs (more on that later). Moreover, Gyarados lures the AI into using any Electric-type moves they have, making them very predictable. Using Protect with Gyarados (especially if an incoming Thunderbolt is obvious) allows Clefable to use Safeguard when playing against 'annoyer' opponents that might use Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray or other moves that remove Clefable's 'one time use' Lum Berry. If Clefable gets paralyzed or confused, for example, Gyarados can't totally depend on Follow Me anymore so that should be avoided. Last but not least, HP[Flying] deters the Fighting-types that Clefable hates.
When Clefable faints, the standard strategy is to send out Claydol and use Psych Up on Gyarados in order to copy the (hopefully at least two) Dragon Dances, turning it into a 'super Marowak', so to speak. Then there is double Earthquake immunity and coverage with HP[Rock] to beat those immune to Earthquake. Protect on Gyarados helps once again when there are still opponents with Electric-type moves, because Psych Up copies the boosts even through Gyarados' Protect. This is very useful against opposing Zapdos, because Gyarados can't simply use Earthquake on it. While Claydol isn't exactly the offensive Pokémon, at +2 it literally out-offenses Jolly Marowak (without boosts) and it has the staying power to live through the Psych Up turn most of the time, especially if the opponent carries Thunderbolt(s), which waste a turn against Gyarados. It also lives through stuff like Tyranitar's Crunch, most Ice Beams, (obviously) Giga Drains and it takes both Blizzard and Surf like a champ. Add that to its Electric immunity and it is easily seen why it is chosen over Solrock here. Against Curse and/or Double Team users it is sometimes wise to use Psych Up on the opponent instead of on Gyarados in order to survive longer and still dish out good damage, or even Exploding.
When I have +2/+2 Gyarados AND Claydol on the field, the match is practically won. In pinch situations, Protect + Explosion is definitely an option, for example when facing Zapdos + Latios, who (might) survive the Hidden Powers.
The 'filler' Pokémon I've inserted here is a Hasty Salamence, but choosing this filler was a difficult process (other options will be discussed below). In other teams I've showcased a HP[Ghost]-sporting Aerodactyl, and that Pokémon is certainly viable here too. Speed is not as important here though, so I went with Salamence for a harder-hitting Pokémon at first glance (Dodrio came to mind, but I really want EQ). Salamence has good synergy with Clefable as well, utilizing Intimidate against Fighting leads again, although one has to be careful about Thunderpunch Machamp (which Gyarados survives, and in Liechi range with good chance). This can come in handy if it seems a better idea to give Gyarados time by offensively threatening the opponent, or simply when a sweep has to be or can be started from turn 2. Of course, Salamence continues the double Earthquake rampage of Gyarados and Claydol. Salamence suffers greatly from 4MSS as will be pointed out later.
EVs and (move)set details
Clefable maxes out HP and has a spread such that both Defense and Special Defense are 292, counting a +1 boost for Defense because of Intimidate. I've played this team for a long time and I still can't really say which sides of Clefables defensive spectrum are targeted more often, although the special attacks are usually more threatening to the rest of the team. I've tried maximizing Special Defense as well, but it's important to have some HP left after taking Clear Body Meteor Mashes, for example. With this set, it survives that plus a Raikou Thunderbolt, approximately. The ability Cute Charm activates commonly with that 30% rate, which is a great help.
Protect is either used to scout moves on turn 1, or to keep Clefable alive when Gyarados can use Earthquake 100% safely, OHKOing both opponents. Most of the time I still use Follow Me though, should any Quick Claw shenanigans happen. Follow Me keeps working throughout the full turn, i.e. Claydol will be on the receiving end of surviving Pokémon's attacks. This is great because of its Electric resistance, once again.
Safeguard was already discussed and was accompanied by Swagger in an old version of the team, but I never really used Swagger, and when I had the time to use it on Gyarados, the team would win without it anyway. Magical Leaf is here to stop Pokémon such as Regirock (whose Substitute it breaks without investment) from using Double Team + Focus Punch combinations. It also 2HKOs Swampert and Quagsire on average, should that ever be needed. Other options include Charm (against Curselax), Sing and Thunder Wave, but don't expect to use them in general.
Gyarados' EVs might seem a little complicated, but they actually aren't. The Defense investment is to survive an Intimidated Explosion up to the power of Weezing's. This means it also survives Explosions from stuff like Shiftry and Claydol. The only non-Clear Body Explosions Gyarados does NOT survive come from Muk and Golem, so that's a great rule of thumb. Physical bulkiness also helps against the aforementioned Rock Slides, STAB Normal Attacks from the likes of Ursaring and Snorlax' moves after it used Curse (and hopefully got Intimidated often). The Speed EV's bring it to 200 Speed, and we all know what that number accomplishes. Remaining EV's are put into Attack for obvious reasons. Sadly Attack cannot be maxed, but I have been shocked by turn 1 Explosions too often.
Another option instead of HP[Flying] is to use Double-Edge and switching HP[Rock] for Shadow Ball on Claydol. This still keeps Gengar at bay, gives better offensive output against the Lati twins, and Double-Edge gets more OHKOs in general (e.g. a +2 D-E OHKOs all Zapdos 94% of the time). But the recoil damage actually hurts, as Gyarados can't afford more HP EV's (which decrease its physical bulk) and I realized HP[Flying]'s super effective hits were more important than anticipated so I changed back. Also, HP[Rock] on Claydol, while being relatively weak, hits threatening foes like the Kanto legendary birds and many other Flying-types such as Aerodactyl.
The item on Gyarados is debatable. It survives many super-effective attacks in pinch range, and Liechi Berry can be copied by Claydol because of Protect. In some other games, Gyarados might get paralyzed because I failed to anticipate Thunder Wave on Clefable and I get unlucky with Follow Me. That's why Cheri Berry is also listed, but I haven't used it yet, honestly.
Claydol was very easy to find EVs for, and the moveset isn't complicated either. I've tried AncientPower as well, but it's simply too weak. Even HP[Rock]'s damage output is disappointing, but it's the best Claydol has. In that regard, Solrock is indeed stronger but it can't reliably get the Psych Up off. And Claydol gets STAB on EQ, making it (slightly) more powerful than Gyarados'.
One could experiment with finding another balance between Special Defense EVs and HP EVs to make it survive some Hydro Pumps or strong Ice Beams. Or even Solarbeams. I haven't really sorted this out yet, because it survives most of them due to its naturally high Special Defense.
The worst that can happen is when Claydol gets disabled in some way before using Psych Up. This happens either due to sleep or due to freeze. Since sleeping moves are not THAT uncommon, I've run Chesto Berry for the most part when testing. Another option would be Hard Stone, as this gets more KO's against the likes of Dragonite, or simply Brightpowder (better than Scope Lens in this case) for lack of better options.
Usually, a Choice Band Salamence in the Battle Tower knows something like Aerial Ace (or HP[Flying]), Earthquake, Rock Slide and Brick Break. Possibly Double-Edge for raw power. This Salamence needs to get rid of Double-Teamers such as Ludicolo and Machamp, fit in the EQ theme, beat Curse Skarmory (which is a scary specific counter for the other three team members) explaining its Hasty Nature, and the choice between Double-Edge and Fly is either to be able to OHKO more threats such as Espeon, or be able to dodge Claydol's Explosion in a pinch, delivering a blow in the same turn (because Claydol is faster from +2 onwards). I like the idea of using Fly, but I ended up almost never using it.
Optional replacements for Salamence
I've tried many different Pokémon here. Aerodactyl was mentioned before, but a specially offensive Gengar (with or without Explosion of its own) works as well, especially considering Claydol's Explosion which it dodges for free. It doesn't have the immediate threatening power that Salamence has though. Psych Up Misdreavus (with something like Shadow Ball, Facade/Double-Edge and Thunderbolt) could be considered, or Banette/Dusclops if you think you can get away with no EQ immunity. Then there's an option to use either Follow Me Togetic to grant an extra turn of DD'ing up, or a Lightningrod Pokémon. Togetic provides Helping Hand too, making it more flexible in all kinds of situations. It could even Psych Up and use Hustle + Aerial Ace or something, but I think that's pure novelty.
The usual 'useful strategies' part can be skipped I think, because I covered most of these in the previous descriptions.
Threats
Double status on Clefable turn 1 (worst one is Sleep). At least Gyarados can switch into Claydol and Salamence into Clefable, making use of defensive typings;
Explosions that are too powerful on turn 1 (although Muk likes to use Dynamic / Thunderpunch when it's super effective, and Golem sometimes has an EQ-immune partner). This is another plus for Gengar or another Ghost instead of Salamence;
Critical hits on Claydol specifically;
Curse Skarmory when Quick Claw activates against Salamence and it somehow doesn't survive Drill Peck.
Curselax is dangerous; the other non-EQ immune Curse users are mostly weak to Earthquake. Try to make use of Intimidate (see the sample streak; even though it had a Quick Claw Hyper Beam, it couldn't finish off even Salamence).
Attract (cannot be prevented by Safeguard), usually either Gyarados or Clefable leaves the field depending on the opponents, and Claydol uses Explosion 'too soon'. Then use whatever you can (Intimidate, Follow Me, etc.).
Icy Wind (e.g. from Kingdra, Milotic and Marowak) is annoying, but usually the opponent doesn't use it repeatedly. Then I still get attack boosts and Icy Wind doesn't really kill Clefable, so I can still use strong attacks, be it with a slow Gyarados.
Hi everyone! Two updates here:
First of all, my Battle Tower Singles streak FINALLY ended at 1090 wins.
The AI shocked me, I lost against Bryce ruin maniac who led with a Metagross that exploded at full health on my Wobbuffet on turn 2.
It has never happened to me before (neither in my test streaks on my second cartridge) and after that I played the 2v2 too conservatively against the wrong Mons.
Now I'm trying to write down something about the team and the loss, with also a sample streak and the replay of the last battle (and honestly it's more complicated than I expected).
In addiction to this, I gave a try to the Battle Tower Doubles with an aggro team that recycled all of my favourite Mons.
It has worked pretty well and now it's at 154 wins. I was sure I discovered something special, then I opened this thread and I read Actaeon's amazing posts about Doubles just to find out my squad is very similar to one of him (the Haymaker).
Here's my Doubles team (Lv.100):
PUGILE (Medicham) (M) @ Black Belt
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Fake Out
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
LE 2 METÀ (Metagross) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Endure
- Explosion
The strategy is straightforward and already well-explained, my EVs spread and movesets are pretty simple:
- Medicham needs all the power available and with Black Belt boosted Brick Break it gets better calcs (for example vs. Regis and Snorlax) and Latios' Surf is also here for the finishing damages in a lot of situations.
Fake Out support is crucial for scouting, extra damage and free turns on most dangerous foe.
- Latios has the best coverage.
I sacrifice Protect because the main target of the attacks is Medicham, due to type similarities and poor overall bulk. I know that a Timid nature can make him reach the 340 speed benchmark, really useful in the Tower, but I got a Modest one with my Eon Ticket and that's all (I maxed out the Speed just to tie with Destiny Bonding Gengars).
- Gengar is the star, Haze is amazing. Once the Speed benchmark is reached, I maximize the SpAtk and put the rest in HP without calcs.
I choose Fire Punch over Giga Drain because the rest of my team has great answers to Tyranitar, less to Metagross (unlike Actaeon's team, I got Surf and boosted Brick Break on my lead, not Earthquake), also think that Swampert is much more manageable than Gross.
- My Metagross has the same set, with Atk maxed out and the Speed EVs to reach 340 after the Salac boost; I don't know if SpDef investment is better or if it's just to trigger Salac with Tauros EQ, I didn't calc to be honest.
The team is solid and fast, the types synergies are great.
I prefer having Fake Out support on turn 1 from a strong presence like Medicham, who can also switch moves and Protect on attacks he calls on him letting Latios free turns, even if it means losing Intimidate and some better offensive calcs from Banded Tauros.
P.S.: I'm sincerely amazed by Actaeon's work, my brain at its best just managed to create what's probably the less exciting of his teams.
Hi everyone! Two updates here:
First of all, my Battle Tower Singles streak FINALLY ended at 1090 wins.
The AI shocked me, I lost against Bryce ruin maniac who led with a Metagross that exploded at full health on my Wobbuffet on turn 2.
It has never happened to me before (neither in my test streaks on my second cartridge) and after that I played the 2v2 too conservatively against the wrong Mons.
Now I'm trying to write down something about the team and the loss, with also a sample streak and the replay of the last battle (and honestly it's more complicated than I expected).
In addiction to this, I gave a try to the Battle Tower Doubles with an aggro team that recycled all of my favourite Mons.
It has worked pretty well and now it's at 154 wins. I was sure I discovered something special, then I opened this thread and I read Actaeon's amazing posts about Doubles just to find out my squad is very similar to one of him (the Haymaker).
LE 2 METÀ (Metagross) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Endure
- Explosion
The strategy is straightforward and already well-explained, my EVs spread and movesets are pretty simple:
- Medicham needs all the power available and with Black Belt boosted Brick Break it gets better calcs (for example vs. Regis and Snorlax) and Latios' Surf is also here for the finishing damages in a lot of situations.
Fake Out support is crucial for scouting, extra damage and free turns on most dangerous foe.
- Latios has the best coverage.
I sacrifice Protect because the main target of the attacks is Medicham, due to type similarities and poor overall bulk. I know that a Timid nature can make him reach the 340 speed benchmark, really useful in the Tower, but I got a Modest one with my Eon Ticket and that's all (I maxed out the Speed just to tie with Destiny Bonding Gengars).
- Gengar is the star, Haze is amazing. Once the Speed benchmark is reached, I maximize the SpAtk and put the rest in HP without calcs.
I choose Fire Punch over Giga Drain because the rest of my team has great answers to Tyranitar, less to Metagross (unlike Actaeon's team, I got Surf and boosted Brick Break on my lead, not Earthquake), also think that Swampert is much more manageable than Gross.
- My Metagross has the same set, with Atk maxed out and the Speed EVs to reach 340 after the Salac boost; I don't know if SpDef investment is better or if it's just to trigger Salac with Tauros EQ, I didn't calc to be honest.
The team is solid and fast, the types synergies are great.
I prefer having Fake Out support on turn 1 from a strong presence like Medicham, who can also switch moves and Protect on attacks he calls on him letting Latios free turns, even if it means losing Intimidate and some better offensive calcs from Banded Tauros.
P.S.: I'm sincerely amazed by Actaeon's work, my brain at its best just managed to create what's probably the less exciting of his teams.
Thanks for the kind words Adedede. I think you have an interesting team there. I'm glad you appreciate Haze Gengar as well! I will definitely try this squad and compare its effectiveness to my own Haymaker team. A few things that crossed my mind beforehand:
You say you use Fake Out for scouting as well. What do you mean by that? Do you look at the damage it does to see what set(s) the opponent may have?
Medicham is a very good Pokémon, mainly because it KO's many 'dangerous' Pokémon such as Tyranitar and Regis (not Regirock) with the help of Latios' moves. It's quite slow, however, can get KO'd by simple Flying-type moves such as Aerial Ace and loses out on many ranges when Intimidated, and I don't think these leads have the ability to 'clear the field' in one turn as often as Tauros + Latios. So I think the leads will have to endure more hits. Of course, Tauros is also a lot bulkier and actually survives stuff (and can still 'do something' with Intimidate when it gets statused). Still, Fake Out is amazing, especially when you are able to predict the targeting and moves of the AI. Luckily, Latios KO's many Flying-types (and Weezing) Medicham hates.
Giga Drain on Gengar is mainly for waters when you need to survive an extra Surf, or to have greater damage output against Regirock, which could use Counter on Metagross or Tauros. Also it really helps against Tyranitar and Quagsire, who have Damp which irritates Metagross sometimes. So Swampert is not really the reason to use it; in fact Swampert uses Counter/Mirror Coat very often, making it an ideal Pokémon to 'postpone killing' until the end of the match.
Just some thoughts I had before actually trying, I will update this when I've played your team! Cheers.
Actaeon, another well thought out doubles team. I love Gen 3 doubles, so I'll definitely be trying out your teams when I get the chance.
Two Pokemon I've always wanted to make work in a doubles team are Minun and Plusle. It would definitely be a novelty team, but it would be interesting to make a team around the mascots of double battles. Just wondering if you had some ideas with them to make full use of their unique abilities.
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I have been working on getting all the Gold Symbols on my save file over the last few weeks, and I currently have 6 out of 7. I only have the Factory left to go, and I want to be thorough with it and attempt to make a start on some form of tier list of what sets to pick and what to avoid.
Just a note before I share my streaks. They were all done at Level 50, as it has more benefits than drawbacks in most of the facilities. Mainly Dragonite and Tyranitar do not appear on opponent's teams, as well as Sitrus Berry and Hyper Potions being more effective with lower max HP.
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Teams Overview
Battle Dome:
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Battle Palace:
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Battle Arena:
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Battle Pike:
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Battle Pyramid:
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Honourable Mentions:
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Battle Tower
I'm not submitting a streak since I used Kommo-o's Team Azure to achieve the Gold Symbol, and have since reset the streak in preparation for the Factory. The only changes I made to his original team was the EV spread for Latios. I moved a few EVs from SpA into the defenses to guarantee survival from a few specific threats, mainly Ursaring. The reduction in SpA doesn't make Latios miss any important KOs, and I like to play knowing I can survive things 100%.
Kommo-o's Spread: 28 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
My Spread: 12 HP / 28 Def / 236 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
Latios is the king of the Battle Frontier. With this team, Latios is generally the chosen lead and is able to sweep through many of the teams you'll face in the Dome. Psychic and Dragon Claw give Latios strong and reliable STABs, while Thunderbolt helps with coverage against all the Water-types, in particular Lapras and Walrein. With these three attacks, Latios can hit every Pokemon at least neutrally except Steelix, Magneton and Shedinja. Calm Mind allows Latios to set up against Pokemon that pose no threat to it, and at +1 it is able to achieve a lot of OHKOs. Lum Berry is to deal with status, and to give Latios a free turn of set up. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and 220 Spe hits 183 which allows Latios to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Near max SpA allows Latios to do as much damage as possible. The defense EVs allows Latios to survive some important attacks, in particular threats such as Ursaring. Below are some damage calcs to show the extent of its bulk.
255+ SpA Articuno Ice Beam vs. 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (132, 134, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 148, 149, 151, 152, 154, 156)
255 SpA Dewgong Blizzard vs. +1 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 66-78 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (66, 67, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78)
0+ SpA Walrein Blizzard vs. +1 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 66-78 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (66, 67, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78)
Metagross is the best Steel-type in the Battle Frontier, and synergises well with Latios. Metagross makes a good lead when the opponent's team doesn't have any threats to take it out, as it can easily take out both of the opponent's Pokemon with Explosion. As for the moveset, Meteor Mash gives Metagross a solid STAB and Earthquake + Rock Slide give it good physical coverage. Explosion allows Metagross to take out the opponent when low on health, and can be useful to take out a potential threat to your Pokemon in the back. Persim Berry is to deal with confusion, which is potentially the most frustrating status. It can come in handy, turning a Swagger into a sweep. It can be changed to another item if you feel confusion is not an issue. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Metagross to do as much damage as possible, while max Spe hits 122 which allows Metagross to outspeed uninvested base 100s. 4 SpD allows Metagross to survive two Thunderbolts from max SpA base 130s, such as Gengar and Latios.
255+ SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
255+ SpA Latios Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
Milotic is a solid defensive Water-type, and chosen for its resilience to complete the Dragon / Steel / Water core. Surf and Ice Beam are standard, giving Milotic a reliable STAB and coverage for the Dragon- and Grass-types that might give Latios and Metagross trouble. Toxic + Recover allows Milotic to stall out a lot of sets, in particular other Water-types that can be a threat to the team. Leftovers is saved for the bulkiest member of the team, and helps to improve Milotic's longevity. As for the nature and EVs, Bold and max Def gives Milotic balanced defensive stats and allows it to survive strong physical hits that might get past Latios. The SpD investment allows Milotic to survive Thunder from max SpA 115s, such as Raikou 2 and Ampharos 1.
255 SpA Magnet Ampharos Thunder vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Milotic: 170-200 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200)
255+ SpA Raikou Thunder vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Milotic: 170-200 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200)
My streak is currently 10 tournaments. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
For both of Tucker's battles, Swampert just spammed Counter / Mirror Coat while I set up four Calm Minds with Latios and proceeded to sweep through his team.
Salamence is a strong Pokemon in the Battle Frontier, and is chosen over Latios since the rest of the team is part Psychic-type. Salamence is the chosen lead of the team due to its good speed tier and Intimdate, and can sweep through teams that don't have an answer to its coverage. Dragon Claw and Flamethrower are to give Salamence 100% accurate moves, a solid STAB, and good coverage. Special moves are chosen over physical moves for the opponent's Intimidate and to give the team better type coverage. Aerial Ace is to give Salamence an option against special walls and Double Team users, and is chosen over HP [Flying] since the AI treats it as Normal-type move. Protect is for the chance that Salamence chooses a defensive move and keep it safe for the turn. Salamence has no supportive moves since the better type coverage is more important than the slim chance that it doesn't make a move. Lum Berry is to deal with status, and to allow Salamence to maintain its speed for at least two turns. As for the nature and EVs, Hasty is to give Salamence the best chance to use an offensive move. Max Spe hits 167 which allows Salamence to tie with neutral nature base 115s like Raikou and Starmie, and outspeeds Gengar 1. Max SpA allows Salamence to do as much damage as possible. 4 HP EVs gives Salamence the best chance to survive any attacks that have a chance of a OHKO.
Metagross is the best Steel-type in the Battle Frontier, and synergises well with Dragon-types such as Salamence. Earthquake + Rock Slide give it good physical coverage. Psychic is chosen to give Metagross a reliable STAB, and to give it an option against physical walls and some Pokemon with Levitate. Protect is for the chance that Metagross chooses a defensive move and keep it safe for the turn. Metagross has no supportive moves since the better type coverage is more important than the slim chance that it doesn't make a move. Persim Berry is to deal with confusion, which is potentially the most frustrating status. It can come in handy, turning a Swagger into a sweep. It can be changed to another item if you feel confusion is not an issue. As for the nature and EVs, Hasty is to give Metagross the best chance to use an offensive move. Max Spe hits 134 which allows Metagross to tie with max Spe base 70s such as Breloom 1, as well as outspeed Gyarados 2 and neutral nature max Spe 80s. Max Atk allows Metagross to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Metagross to survive two Thunderbolts from max SpA base 130s, such as Gengar and Latios.
255+ SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
255+ SpA Latios Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)
Starmie is the chosen Water-type for the team due to its high speed tier and great coverage. Surf, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are standard and give Starmie a solid STAB along with good coverage. Protect is for the chance that Starmie chooses a defensive move and keep it safe for the turn. Starmie has no supportive moves since the better type coverage is more important than the slim chance that it doesn't make a move. Bright Powder is to make Starmie harder to take down, but it can easily be changed to something else like Leftovers. As for the nature and EVs, Hasty is to give Starmie the best chance to use an offensive move. Max Spe hits 183 which allows Starmie to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Starmie to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Starmie to survive Thunderbolt from max SpA base 100s such as Regice and Starmie.
255+ SpA Regice Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
0+ SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
255+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 56-67 (41.4 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (56, 57, 58, 58, 59, 60, 60, 61, 62, 62, 63, 64, 64, 65, 66, 67)
My streak is currently 42 wins. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
For Spenser's battles, I switched around a lot to use Salamence's Intimidate for Slaking, and to get Starmie safely in against his Water-types. Starmie was lucky against Spenser's Lapras, with it going down in three hits and missing all its Horn Drills. Suicune wasn't really an issue since it has no recovery and I was able to waste its Blizzard's PP with switching between my Pokemon.
Battle Arena
Metagross @ Persim Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
- Explosion
Metagross is the best Steel-type in the Battle Frontier, and forms a solid core with the best Dragon-types available, Latios and Salamence. Metagross is the chosen lead of the team due to having Explosion to easily take out Greta's Gold Symbol Umbreon and any major threats to Latios. Earthquake + Rock Slide give it good physical coverage. Aerial Ace gives Metagross a reliable physical option against Double Teamer users and Grass-types, in particular Breloom and Ludicolo. Explosion allows Metagross to take down a potentially problem Pokemon like Lapras or Walrein, or take out the opponent's second Pokemon if it won't survive the three turns. The way the scoring works in the Battle Arena is that it is favourable to use accurate, super effective attacks, so if up against a defensive Pokemon with evasion or recovery you want to make sure you always use the super effective move to win the Mind and Skill categories. Persim Berry is to deal with confusion, which is potentially the most frustrating status, especially with no switching. It can come in handy, turning a Swagger into a sweep. It can be changed to another item if you feel confusion is not an issue. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and near max Atk allows Metagross to do as much damage as possible, while 92 Spe hits 102 which allows Metagross to outspeed all Gyarados and Milotic sets except Gyarados 2. The HP and Def allows Metagross avoid the 2HKO from Metagross 3 & 8, which are the only Metagross sets that outspeed and pose a threat with an Adamant Earthquake. 4 SpD is to not waste the point, and avoids the OHKO from Houndoom 1.
170 SpA Houndoom Flamethrower vs. 156 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 147-174 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (147, 149, 151, 153, 154, 156, 158, 160, 161, 163, 165, 167, 168, 170, 172, 174)
Latios is the king of the Battle Frontier. Latios covers all of Metagross's weaknesses, and if Metagross does its job and takes out two Pokemon, Latios comes in and cleans up. Psychic is the reliable STAB of choice, and Ice Beam + Thunderbolt gives Latios the best coverage possible. With these three attacks, Latios can hit every Pokemon at least neutrally except Magneton and Shedinja. Fly seems like an interesting choice, but the Battle Arena does not favour setting up in battle, so Calm Mind has limited use. Two turn moves that have a semi-invulnerable turn, like Dig, Dive, and Fly, are interesting in the Battle Arena. They count as a successful attack for both turns they take while the opponent will miss at least one turn (with the exception of the move missing or the opponent using a move that hits during the semi-invulnerable turn), which gives you the point advantage in the Mind category. Also after the three turns, all Pokemon are pulled out the semi-invulnerable turn for the judging. This allows you to use Fly on the third turn to avoid an attack without losing points if you aren't able to knock out the opponent's Pokemon. Do note that it's not a perfect tactic, but it's another option to help get you out of a sticky situation. Lum Berry is to deal with status since there is no switching. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and 220 Spe hits 183 which allows Latios to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Near max SpA allows Latios to do as much damage as possible. The defense EVs allows Latios to survive some important attacks, in particular threats such as Ursaring. Below are some damage calcs to show the extent of its bulk.
255+ SpA Articuno Ice Beam vs. 12 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (132, 134, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 148, 149, 151, 152, 154, 156)
Starmie is the chosen Water-type for the team due to its high speed tier and great coverage, which helps in the Battle Arena. Surf, Psychic, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are standard and give Starmie two solid STABs along with good coverage. The moves are pretty straightforward, you want to always go for the move that hits super effectively to help with the scoring if you survive the three turns. Bright Powder is to make Starmie harder to take down, but it can easily be changed to something else like Leftovers. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and max Spe hits 183 which allows Starmie to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Starmie to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Starmie to survive Thunderbolt from max SpA base 100s such as Regice and Starmie.
255+ SpA Regice Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
0+ SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
255+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 56-67 (41.4 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (56, 57, 58, 58, 59, 60, 60, 61, 62, 62, 63, 64, 64, 65, 66, 67)
My streak is currently 56 wins. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
For Greta's Silver Symbol battle, Metagross Aerial Ace'd Heracross, exploded on Umbreon, and Latios finished off Shedinja with Fly.
For Greta's Gold Symbol battle, Metagross exploded on Umbreon since Metagross can't 3HKO and the rest of the team don't want to deal with it if Metagross loses due to judging, and Latios swept through the rest of the team.
Starmie is the chosen Water-type for the team due to having Natural Cure, as well as its high speed and coverage to sweep through Lucy's teams. Surf, Psychic, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are standard and give Starmie two solid STABs along with good coverage. Recover is not needed since Blissey is on the team, and the coverage is more important. Bright Powder is to make Starmie harder to take down, and since single use items like Lum Berry are not recovered after battles they would get used up easily. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and max Spe hits 183 which allows Starmie to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Starmie to do as much damage as possible. 4 SpD allows Starmie to survive Thunderbolt from max SpA base 100s such as Regice and Starmie.
255+ SpA Regice Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
0+ SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 113-134 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (113, 115, 116, 117, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127, 128, 129, 131, 132, 134)
255+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 56-67 (41.4 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (56, 57, 58, 58, 59, 60, 60, 61, 62, 62, 63, 64, 64, 65, 66, 67)
Heracross is on the team since it helps against the special walls that Starmie struggles with, and it is a strong Guts user that is able to turn a burn or poison into a sweep. Brick Break is for a reliable STAB, and Earthquake + Rock Slide give good physical coverage. Megahorn is the strongest option Heracross has, but with its shaky accuracy it should only be used when no other move is appropriate. Perism Berry is for confusion, the one status that doesn't activate Guts, and allows Heracross to use the Swagger from Lucy's Seviper to sweep through her team. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Heracross to do as much damage as possible. Max Spe hits 137 which outspeeds uninvested base 115s such as Raikou and Starmie. 4 Def allows Heracross to live Aerial Ace from Golduck 4 and avoid the 2HKO from Armaldo 3. Additionally, the 4 EVs can be moved to SpD to survive Overheat from Exploud 3.
255+ Atk Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 64-76 (41.2 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (64, 65, 66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 69, 70, 71, 72, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76)
4 SpD:
255 SpA Exploud Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heracross: 130-154 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (130, 132, 133, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 144, 146, 147, 149, 150, 152, 154)
Blissey is a solid Pokemon in the Battle Pike, since it has access to Softboiled and Aromatherapy to keep its teammates healthy and free from status. Seismic Toss and Flamethrower are the chosen offensive moves for Blissey for overall consistency, and allows Blissey to handle the Grass- and Steel-types that Starmie and Heracross might struggle with. Toxic is not chosen since it leaves Blissey walled by Gengar, and is too passive for how the team works. Aromatherapy and Softboiled are the main reason Blissey is used on the team, as it allows you to restore HP of a teammate outside of battle and remove status conditions if you can switch it in safely. Leftovers is an obvious choice for Blissey, as it improves its overall longevity. As for the nature and EVs, Bold and max Def makes Blissey as physically bulky as possible. 228 HP lets Blissey hit a max HP of 359, which allows Blissey to survive an Explosion from Exeggutor 4 and Cross Chop from Machamp 3 & 4. Although very unlikely to happen, 359 HP along with Leftovers allows Blissey to survive 12 consecutive Seismic Tosses without needing to use Softboiled. 20 SpA hits 98, which allows Blissey to 2HKO Exeggutor 4 with Flamethrower, and along with the 4 Spe, Exeggutor 4 only has one turn to choose Explosion. 4 Spe hits 76, which allows Blissey to outspeed uninvested base 55s like Blissey, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Ursaring. 4 SpD is to not waste the leftover EVs.
255 Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 228 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 302-356 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (302, 306, 309, 313, 316, 320, 323, 327, 331, 334, 338, 341, 345, 348, 352, 356)
Offensive:
20 SpA Blissey Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 85-100 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100)
My streak is currently 140 rooms cleared. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
The Battle Pike is the easiest facility to get the Gold Symbol. My main strategy was to check what the lady standing outside the three rooms says. If she says "Is it...A Trainer? I sense the presence of people...", avoid the room she mentioned and chose any other room. If she says anything else, enter the room she mentions. This quote hints at the possibility of a single battle without healing after, which is the worst possible outcome. My team can handle status and wild Pokemon, and double battles are in the player's favour.
For both of Lucy's battles, Starmie was able to sweep through both her teams.
Alakazam is the main Pokemon of the team, being the fastest legal Pokemon with access to Teleport. The main strategy of the team is to Teleport from wild battles while collecting items off the ground and battling any trainers. Psychic gives Alakazam a solid STAB, and Fire Punch + ThunderPunch covers the Pokemon that resist Psychic and could give the team trouble. Generally, Alakazam doesn't wanna stay in on trainer battles since it's frail and its main role is to avoid wild encounters. Alakazam is usually given Bright Powder, Focus Band, or Lum Berry to hold since they all help it to avoid crippling status and surviving. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and 212 Spe hits 183 which allows Alakazam to outspeed everything except Jolteon 4. Max SpA allows Alakazam to do as much damage as possible, while the defensive EVs give it slightly better physical bulk. Overall, Alakazam should avoid taking attacks because the team can struggle if it faints and you don't have any Revives.
Salamence is the offensive presence of the team, and it can be useful to switch it to the lead spot if you're about to battle a trainer. Hidden Power [Flying] gives Salamence a reliable STAB, and not much wants to take it when you've got a Choice Band. Earthquake + Rock Slide give Salamence good physical coverage, and Brick Break is useful to break through the special walls that can give the team problems. Salamence is the main recipient of any Choice Bands you find, but Lum Berry is sufficient if you aren't able to get one. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Salamence to do as much damage as possible. Max Spe hits 152 which allows Salamence to tie with neutral nature max Spe base 100s and outspeed uninvested base 130s. The HP EVs give Salamence the best chance to survive any attacks that have a chance to OHKO.
Blissey is a solid Pokemon in the Battle Pyramid, since it has access to Softboiled and Aromatherapy to keep its teammates healthy and free from status. Seismic Toss and Ice Beam are the chosen offensive moves for Blissey for overall consistency, and allows Blissey to handle the Dragon-types that give Salamence trouble. Ice Beam also allows Blissey to handle Brandon's Gold Symbol team with ease. Toxic is not chosen since it leaves Blissey walled by Gengar, and is too passive for how the team works. Aromatherapy and Softboiled are the main reason Blissey is used on the team, as it allows you to restore HP of a teammate outside of battle and remove status conditions if you can switch it in safely. Any Leftovers you find go straight to Blissey to help it stick around. As for the nature and EVs, Bold and max Def makes Blissey as physically bulky as possible. 228 HP lets Blissey hit a max HP of 359, which allows Blissey to survive an Explosion from Exeggutor 4 and Cross Chop from Machamp 3 & 4. Although very unlikely to happen, 359 HP along with Leftovers allows Blissey to survive 12 consecutive Seismic Tosses without needing to use Softboiled. 20 SpA hits 98, which allows Blissey to 2HKO Exeggutor 4 with Ice Beam, and along with the 4 Spe, Exeggutor 4 only has one turn to choose Explosion. 4 Spe hits 76, which allows Blissey to outspeed uninvested base 55s like Blissey, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Ursaring. 4 SpD is to not waste the leftover EVs.
255 Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 228 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 302-356 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (302, 306, 309, 313, 316, 320, 323, 327, 331, 334, 338, 341, 345, 348, 352, 356)
Offensive:
20 SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 85-100 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100)
Linoone is used in the Battle Pyramid for one thing, its access to Pickup. This allows you to get items after each battle, and since you don't enter with held items, the items found in the Battle Pyramid can be crucial to success. Linoone is switched in for Blissey in Round 2, as Pickup has a chance to get a Choice Band or Leftovers during this round. For this team to work at its best, you must finish Round 2 with at least one Choice Band, and having a Leftovers is also helpful. As for Linoone's set, Return gives it a reliable STAB with high PP if it's needed to finish off a Pokemon. Shadow Ball allows it to hit Ghost-types, and Hidden Power [Ground] gives it an option against Rock- and Steel-types. Surf is mainly for Rock/Ground-types and other physically bulky Pokemon that are 4x weak to it. As for the nature and EVs, Jolly and 228 Spe hits 163 which allows Linoone to outspeed neutral natured max Spe base 110s such as Espeon and Gengar. Max Atk allows Linoone to do as much damage as possible, and the rest are put into HP for better mixed bulk.
Machamp is used in Round 3 since it is a strong Guts user, and with a Choice Band + Guts it can sweep through Brandon's Silver Symbol team. Machamp is used over Heracross since it isn't weak to Fire-types, which most of the wild Pokemon are. Machamp is switched in for Salamence in Round 3, since its the first round you face Brandon and some of the wild Pokemon have access to Will-O-Wisp. For Round 3, you want to try and switch Machamp in to get burnt and then resume using Teleport to avoid wild battles. The best Pokemon to switch in against are Vulpix on Floor 1 & 2, Ninetales on Floor 1, 2, 3, & 4, and Weezing on Floor 3, 4, 5, 6, & 7. Dusclops should be avoided since it has Mean Look and Confuse Ray which can cause trouble. As for Machamp's set, it is standard for a Choice Band set. Brick Break is the chosen STAB for reliability and PP over power. Hidden Power [Ghost] allows Machamp to hit Ghost-types, Earthquake is a solid physical option, and Facade is a very strong option once you manage to get Machamp burnt. As for the nature and EVs, Adamant and max Atk allows Machamp to do as much damage as possible, and lets Machamp to OHKO Brandon's Regirock with a Choice Band and a burn. 244 Spe hits 106 which allows Machamp to outspeed uninvested base 85s such as Articuno and Kingdra. The rest are put in HP for better mixed bulk.
Choice Band / Burn:
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Brick Break vs. 106 HP / 152 Def Regice: 185-218 (110.1 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (185, 187, 189, 191, 194, 196, 198, 200, 202, 204, 207, 209, 211, 213, 215, 218)
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Brick Break vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 119-140 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 126, 127, 128, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 137, 138, 140)
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Brick Break vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 153-180 (87.9 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (153, 154, 156, 158, 160, 162, 163, 165, 167, 169, 171, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180)
Sharpedo is used for the rounds where Alakazam is unable to use Teleport. Sharpedo is switched in for Alakazam in Round 6 & 9, and is used because it is able to handle the wild Pokemon found in these rounds. Sharpedo is able to OHKO all Diglett, Dugtrio, and Trapinch with Surf, and is immune to Mirror Coat from Wynaut and Wobbuffet. Just like with Alakazam, Sharpedo should avoid participating in the trainer battles becuase the team will struggle against the wild Pokemon if Sharpedo faints and you don't have any Revives. As for Sharpedo's set, Surf and Crunch gives it two reliable STABs that can take out the Arena Trap and Shadow Tag Pokemon, respectively. Ice Beam is to give Sharpedo coverage if it needs to battle against a trainer, and helps finish off any Dragon-types that give Salamence trouble. Taunt is for any Wobbuffet that survive Crunch and use Destiny Bond, which stops it from using it again and taking Sharpedo down with it. As for the nature and EVs, Timid and max Spe hits 161 which allows Sharpedo to outspeed uninvested Electrode. Max SpA allows Sharpedo to do as much damage as possible, and the rest goes into HP for better mixed bulk.
My streak is currently 70 floors cleared. It is on cartridge and still alive, but once getting the Gold Symbol I moved onto the other facilities.
The Battle Pyramid is my new favourite facility in the Battle Frontier. I like the idea of having to manage my team and their PP, as well as my items.
For Brandon's Silver Symbol battle, I used Machamp and was able to sweep through his team in three turns. I set up for it by having Machamp burnt by the wild Pokemon and getting a Choice Band in Round 2.
For Brandon's Gold Symbol battle, Alakazam took out Articuno with ThunderPunch and then Blissey took down both Zapdos and Moltres.
Also, I've been looking into how the game generates the layout for each floor in the Battle Pyramid since I couldn't find it anywhere online.
Each floor is a 4 x 4 square and each of the 16 sections are randomly selected from a selection of 16 different layouts, with the spawn point and exit tile being in a regular location. So I feel it will be useful to make some maps for the warp tile locations so you know where to look for the exit. I'll make them and upload them to imgur when I get a chance in the next week or so.
Hey Golden Blissey, I must have misclicked on your name or something, because apparently I was 'ignoring' you haha. This is why I didn't respond to your previous post; I didn't see it. Amazing explanations and detail, I really enjoyed reading this.
I've definitely thought about Plusle and Minun as well, but of course it strictly classifies as a novelty team. I have more of these kind of teams, including examples such as 'Tank Factory', 'OverHaze', 'Hyper Roar', Anti-crit stall (more on these later, naturally!).
My novelty Plusle & Minun team also had Pikachu to fit the theme. I used Plusle and Minun as Rain leads, and as Minun is bulkier, Minus sets the rain. Plusle (Endure/Fake Tears/Thunder/HP[Grass]) has Salac Berry and Minun (Rain Dance/Thunder/HP[Ice]/Helping Hand) has Petaya Berry. Pikachu outspeeds surprisingly many Pokémon and actually learns Teeter Dance as well, which can be helpful in a pinch. Set details: I think Minun survives a Snorlax EQ and outspeeds Plusle, so Thunder can be used on turn 1. HP[Ice] is put on Minun since Plusle's Thunder already KO's stuff like Salamence, so I want more power for the HP[Grass] targets. Minun still KO's Flygon of course, and it's the only good move against Grass-types.
A more serious team can be made by utilizing Follow Me + Tail Glow, or Calm Mind if you wish, and pass it to Plusle so it becomes threatening without Minun already, and when Minun comes in after the Follow Me user faints the damage it will deal goes through the roof. There are only two Tail Glow users: Smeargle and Volbeat (Volbeat knows Baton Pass too). Sadly, it's Volbeat's counterpart Illumise that gets Flatter (and the Nido families). Smeargle of course has way better other options than Volbeat.
Another idea would be to lead off with bulkier Pokémon, set up screens and Rain and leave the field by using Explosing and Memento in that order, then send in Plusle and Minun.
Last thing I can think of now is using Skill Swap on Minun to put it on something with better stats such as Starmie, which also makes use of Rain and gets STAB (also removes the Ground-type weakness).
But I'd have to optimize all those different ideas to see what's actually best. Still it would end up being bad, probably :)
Would you like a detailed team? Then it's the next project haha
With Fake Out you can even discover the set by the calcs (I think about the damage outcome on Lapras), but with min/max roll it's really difficult.
The main scouting I've made on my streak until now are on Walrein (set 1 has Protect and Blizzard as the only attacking move, while set 3 and 4 have Sheer Cold, same EVs but no Protect, and unfortunately Brick Break alone doesn't kill. I can scout Walrein with my Fake Out, this lets Latios free to handle the second Mon, and if it Protect on my move, I know it's not a threat because of the lack of Brightpowder/Quick Claw/OHKO/bullshit) and on Armaldo, because the set 1, that opens with Protect, has no way of dealing with Metagross, while other sets may have Earthquake.
P.S.: You can notice that Fake Out min roll on Walrein 2 do 17,7%, max roll on set 1/3/4 do 15,8%, so yeah, you can also scout by the damage outcome, but I never did it safely unless max roll on less defensive sets appear.
Giga Drain on Gengar is mainly for waters when you need to survive an extra Surf, or to have greater damage output against Regirock, which could use Counter on Metagross or Tauros. Also it really helps against Tyranitar and Quagsire, who have Damp which irritates Metagross sometimes. So Swampert is not really the reason to use it; in fact Swampert uses Counter/Mirror Coat very often, making it an ideal Pokémon to 'postpone killing' until the end of the match.
Oh, these're definitely some good reasons for using GD over FP I didn't consider.
I think it depends mostly on the coverage that your lead can offer.
Some Regirock can be KOed by a nice roll from (Fake Out+)Brick Break+Psychic (keeping in mind I run Modest max SpAtk Latios).
With Fake Out chips that can also make Water Mirror Coat users flinch, Brick Break that hits the Water/Ice supereffectively and Thunderbolt on my Special sweepers, bulky waters are not an issue as they may be with a Tauros lead.
Moreover, I always did Metagross-weak teams (even my infinite streak on Singles ended mostly because of this guy), so I feel more comfortable with FP.
Good luck with the team, I'm waiting for tips and advices!
Aha, good stuff on the Fake Out! I can imagine Brick Break KO'ing Walrein after the Fake Out damage too. It's such a wonderful move. I was mistaken on the Fake Out + Protect like you said, but you replied before I could edit :)
Funny thing is I think Modest Latios fits this team very well, because without Earthquake damage aiding in, it needs all the power it can get for OHKOing. These kind of teams really only work because they prevent the opponent from moving at all.
Just did about 50 battles (I play at 8x speed to infer some statistical opinions) and the team is great, but from what I can tell the opponent leads get slightly more opportunities to move than the Tauros version. Also the stuff that outspeeds or ties the leads can get dangerous, especially if there are two at the same time. Examples: Starmie, (CB) Aerodactyl, Zapdos, Crobat (can't be flinched) and speed ties against opposing Gengar.
That's it so far.
Yeah, you're right.
I can't test yours because I play on cartridge and now I don't have time to catch a Tauros and RNG a (shiny) egg, but I feel like my version performs better against slower/bulky teams, while yours can easily take advantage on aggro opponent teams.
When I've found faster leads, usually Fake Out really helped me, chipping and stopping threads, even if sometimes it means losing Medicham.
If he survives turn 1 (keep in mind that he will receive just one hit because of Fake Out, and Cham is more bulky than one can expect ~for example 255+ Gengar Thunderbolt do max 63%, 255+ Starmie Surf max 81%, 255+ Crobat Aerial Ace max 96%~), then I Protect on turn 2 where Cham usually calls every attack on him, especially if already damaged, letting Latios doing his job.
P.S. Calcs on Aerodactyl are even better: set 3 and 4 can just claim a max 63% with Double-Edge, set 2 with Choice Band can kill but he must lock himself into a move resisted by Metagross, and set 1 with Aerial Ace do at its best max 99.2%
I don't really understand why you are using Starmie here, Golden Blissey. If Latios has a bad matchup such as Snorlax, Blissey, Umbreon, Regice, or Registeel, then Starmie will often lose as well. They share many counters right? Wouldn't it be better to put Metagross in the middle then? Or a Fighting-type like Medicham/Heracross/Machamp instead of Starmie? Maybe I'm missing something crucial here, but I couldn't find it in your description ;)
By the way, have you tried using Fake Out + Protect + Dig/Fly? IIRC that can be done with Persian and Sneasel. If the opponent doesn't have Leftovers (and is not the Timid Jolteon or an Inner Focus Pokémon), then I think you win the judgement. Ghost-types can be beaten with Shadow Ball.
I posted the first version of the article about my Singles team.
There are still a lot of things to improve and to add, like for sure a sample streak and the replay of the loss.
I'm also aware that the strategy part is too poor.
Any suggestion is welcome!
Hey Adedede, I love your singles team, and I think it's a very dependable non-Trick team. In fact, I've been trying to optimize a Doubles variant on it too, but I'm not satisfied enough to share it yet.
Of course I've been playing your team too, and indeed the Sheer Cold Pokémon seem very difficult to get by without being lucky, and the hax WILL occur eventually. Call it Kolmogorov's 0-1 law if you wish. Actually I don't like Wobbuffet at all, but I don't like to use Mean Look either when I don't have to. Then I saw Electrode was a slight problem as well like you pointed out. There might be some solutions to these problems, but they create other problems of course. I'm curious about your thoughts on these Pokemon instead of Wobbuffet:
Block Steelix - great bulk, it has Sturdy, synergizes well with Gengar, packs Explosion and laughs at Electrode. Something like Protect / Block / Explosion / EQ with loads of Special Defense and HP investment? Fares worse against Waters and Fire-types, but Gengar can be made quite specially Defensive as well.
Wrap Shuckle - also has Sturdy and can tank a variety of moves slightly better such as Surf and Flamethrower, but makes the team weaker to Metagross. Does learn Encore too though.
Then there's other Perish Song users to consider maybe - Misdreavus still defensively complements Slaking, doesn't have the Psychic-type weakness and can be made slightly bulkier than Gengar at the cost of Speed, which would make Wobbuffet less neccessary. Lapras has very nice bulk and Shell Armor to further prevent hax. Politoed has Damp and good type synergy with Steelix (e.g. it could take Surfs aimed at Steelix while Steelix takes the OHKO moves aimed at Politoed), and it can use Counter against Metagross, although strong Fighters could become problematic. As a remedy for this there's Altaria which has Natural Cure but seems disappointing because Ice-types tend to be annoying.
Your team is probably quite optimal, but indeed Slaking doesn't KO everything you would want it to, and maybe the Perish Song part could be made stronger by replacing Slaking, and I just wondered if you also considered that. Snorlax for example also learns Block IIRC, and emergency Selfdestucts are great.
I'm really really glad you like it!
And these suggestions are great, I've the feeling that something more reliable than my team can come out from this.
Ok, the main point for using Wobbuffet over anybody else is her trapping ability in 0 turn.
You don't have to use a move like Block, you can be flinched, the foe can use Protect, Substitute, can have raised Evasion, can put you to sleep.
Wobbuffet is amazing for this reason, for the fast switch when the countdown is at -1, just to switch out the next turn without moving.
This team achieved the highest number of kills this way: Gengar use Perish Song and survives foe's hit or consume lum berry on status, -3, Protect, -2, switch on Wobbuffet, - 1, switch on Slaking/Gengar as the foe dies.
The reason to use Gengar and Slaking is the speed control and their offensive nature. When this team gets 1 kill more than foe's one, it's a chess game where you have to fastly sacrifice pieces for the win. Slower Mons are more prone to be haxed, and this team cannot afford to lose something not planned. That's why Wobbuffet often is the switch, because in a trading situation is the less effective Mon of the team (slower than OHKO moves users, slowers than Rock Sliders, sometimes needs prediction between Encore or Destiny Bond).
That is valid because the team that inspired me worked that way: Sash Gengar, Scarf Froslass, Blissey as the one who has to survive. My team is a bad copy, Focus Sash on Gar is amazing, gets 2 easy kills a game, and Scarf Froslass is a perfect DBonder.
BUT my team is inspiring something new, and I really feel like it's possible to make it more stallish, more combo, less aggro and situational (in a few words, more effective for a long run).
Sturdy Block Steelix is amazing, is really something I didn't consider (and I must be stupid, because in one match of the streak a Steelix used Block on my Perish Song and I lost Gengar for this), a team can be definitely built around him (if Lapras didn't have that awful Ice type, the team was already over I guess).
I'm brainstorming now, a stall team built around Steelix needs Blissey/a bulky water type + bulky Misdreavus or Gengar (probably Gengar for its 4x Bug resistance is better, otherwise Heracross is a threat). Note that Gengar can run a more defensive spread than mine, like Bold nature, because Blissey could check all the Special Attackers Gar had to outspeed on my team. Blissey must have Wish and Protect on this team, and also Vaporeon is good and can run the same moves. Politoed is cool but 2 singers is to much IMHO, and this team needs a way of recover.
Well, Counter+Perish Song+Wish are all stuck togheter in Wigglytuff, but maybe it's too crazy (the calcs on 252HP/252+Def aren't that bad tho)
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wigglytuff: 204-241 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
EDIT: As atsync made me notice on Discord, Perish Song and Wish are two egg moves not legally available due to breeding conflicts, so forget about that.
Unfortunately, nobody will build something with Wigglytuff :(
It seems reallt difficult to outweigh Wobbuffet's usefulness indeed. Just a quick thing that crossed my mind is letting Wobbuffet outspeed Walrein and Lapras, reducing the chance of them OHKOing before Destiny Bond. Then it outspeeds all kinds of slower Pokemon as well so Destiny Bond could be used more frequently. But this costs a LOT of bulk on some side of the spectrum, and I can't really say how important that is without trying.
I think it's cool that you're thinking about other possibilities as well. Snorlax also learns Yawn by the way, so a Yawn/Protect/Block/Selfdestruct set seems plausible. Maybe Counter in there somewhere. These kind of alterations would need hours of experimenting ;)
Stumpy (slaking) Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant nature
-double-edge
-earthquake
-shadow ball
-aerial ace
Main purpose of this team is to either leech seed stall the opposing pokemon or boost up with snorlax and then sweep. This team aims to have the advantage by the first ko with either a boosted snorlax or a substitute. Meganium can leech seed stall almost every pokemon that it outspeeds and can pp stall ohko moves. Leech seed stall is also very effective against boosting pokemon. Snorlax can boost up on almost every special attacker. Snorlax also doesn't suffer very much from lack of coverage because he can pp stall every ghost set I have seen. Slaking is their to come in and ohko pokemon that are problems for my other two.
Threatlist:
Metagross: Either switch to slaking and eq or leech seed stall. Unbanded Metagross three hit KO's meganium so subseeding is effective even if Metagross is faster. The problem with this is it relies on no crit in the first 2 attacks and no boost in the first attack and of course leech seed needs to hit. Also quick claw has 4 opportunities to activate against subseeding only if meganium is faster. I think EQ is not guaranteed to to kill which is another problem.
Aerodactyl: Hopefully boost up with snorlax. Special areodactyl is not a threat
Salamance: switch and kill with slaking.
Heracross: hopefully switch and kill with slaking. If snorlax is boosted or meganium has a sub hera is not a problem.
Rhydon: razor leaf always ohko'ed. But I think this is not guaranteed. If I ran this team again I would have hidden power grass instead of razor leaf.
Stumpy (slaking) Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant nature
-double-edge
-earthquake
-shadow ball
-aerial ace
Main purpose of this team is to either leech seed stall the opposing pokemon or boost up with snorlax and then sweep. This team aims to have the advantage by the first ko with either a boosted snorlax or a substitute. Meganium can leech seed stall almost every pokemon that it outspeeds and can pp stall ohko moves. Leech seed stall is also very effective against boosting pokemon. Snorlax can boost up on almost every special attacker. Snorlax also doesn't suffer very much from lack of coverage because he can pp stall every ghost set I have seen. Slaking is their to come in and ohko pokemon that are problems for my other two.
Threatlist:
Metagross: Either switch to slaking and eq or leech seed stall. Unbanded Metagross three hit KO's meganium so subseeding is effective even if Metagross is faster. The problem with this is it relies on no crit in the first 2 attacks and no boost in the first attack and of course leech seed needs to hit. Also quick claw has 4 opportunities to activate against subseeding only if meganium is faster. I think EQ is not guaranteed to to kill which is another problem.
Aerodactyl: Hopefully boost up with snorlax. Special areodactyl is not a threat
Salamance: switch and kill with slaking.
Heracross: hopefully switch and kill with slaking. If snorlax is boosted or meganium has a sub hera is not a problem.
Rhydon: razor leaf always ohko'ed. But I think this is not guaranteed. If I ran this team again I would have hidden power grass instead of razor leaf.
I'm really really glad you like it!
And these suggestions are great, I've the feeling that something more reliable than my team can come out from this.
Ok, the main point for using Wobbuffet over anybody else is her trapping ability in 0 turn.
You don't have to use a move like Block, you can be flinched, the foe can use Protect, Substitute, can have raised Evasion, can put you to sleep.
Wobbuffet is amazing for this reason, for the fast switch when the countdown is at -1, just to switch out the next turn without moving.
This team achieved the highest number of kills this way: Gengar use Perish Song and survives foe's hit or consume lum berry on status, -3, Protect, -2, switch on Wobbuffet, - 1, switch on Slaking/Gengar as the foe dies.
The reason to use Gengar and Slaking is the speed control and their offensive nature. When this team gets 1 kill more than foe's one, it's a chess game where you have to fastly sacrifice pieces for the win. Slower Mons are more prone to be haxed, and this team cannot afford to lose something not planned. That's why Wobbuffet often is the switch, because in a trading situation is the less effective Mon of the team (slower than OHKO moves users, slowers than Rock Sliders, sometimes needs prediction between Encore or Destiny Bond).
That is valid because the team that inspired me worked that way: Sash Gengar, Scarf Froslass, Blissey as the one who has to survive. My team is a bad copy, Focus Sash on Gar is amazing, gets 2 easy kills a game, and Scarf Froslass is a perfect DBonder.
BUT my team is inspiring something new, and I really feel like it's possible to make it more stallish, more combo, less aggro and situational (in a few words, more effective for a long run).
Sturdy Block Steelix is amazing, is really something I didn't consider (and I must be stupid, because in one match of the streak a Steelix used Block on my Perish Song and I lost Gengar for this), a team can be definitely built around him (if Lapras didn't have that awful Ice type, the team was already over I guess).
I'm brainstorming now, a stall team built around Steelix needs Blissey/a bulky water type + bulky Misdreavus or Gengar (probably Gengar for its 4x Bug resistance is better, otherwise Heracross is a threat). Note that Gengar can run a more defensive spread than mine, like Bold nature, because Blissey could check all the Special Attackers Gar had to outspeed on my team. Blissey must have Wish and Protect on this team, and also Vaporeon is good and can run the same moves. Politoed is cool but 2 singers is to much IMHO, and this team needs a way of recover.
Well, Counter+Perish Song+Wish are all stuck togheter in Wigglytuff, but maybe it's too crazy (the calcs on 252HP/252+Def aren't that bad tho)
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wigglytuff: 204-241 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
EDIT: As atsync made me notice on Discord, Perish Song and Wish are two egg moves not legally available due to breeding conflicts, so forget about that.
Unfortunately, nobody will build something with Wigglytuff :(
Also just to add to the discussion about Adedede's team. As far as special walls go I have found snorlax more effective than blissey because he can setup on both sides of the spectrum and just has higher physical defense. He doesn't get wish he does get block :/ . Also do you have any thoughts on dugtrio over wobbuffet. His ability is similar but only affects grounded foes. He obviously has inferior defenses but may make up for it with speed and moveset diversity (protect, substitute, attacking moves).
Also does anyone have a proper check to metagross on their team. All my teams end up having a problem with him and it seems like no one pokemon can weather all his hax. The best I have found so far is suicune (surf,calm mind,protect,rest) to resist and pp stall him. But even that lost to double attack raise and a lucky crit. I don't like suicune all that much on most of my teams.
Unfortunately I'm playing on cartridge without any sort of cheat code and Chansey gets Wish from a 2005 USA event, so it's totally unachievable for me.
The best I have found so far is suicune (surf,calm mind,protect,rest) to resist and pp stall him. But even that lost to double attack raise and a lucky crit. I don't like suicune all that much on most of my teams.
I thought about Dugtrio, but it's completely useless because most of the time Wobbuffet has to survive one hit on the switch-in (moreover, its ability is mostly outclassed by Shadow Tag, even if Protect/Substitute utility and speed control are nice).
My main answer to Metagross from the old team is Wobbuffet, but some sets are OHKOed by EQ, and Gengar can DB or set a Perish Song in almost every situation.
At the end of the day, it's still a dangerous threat with hax from its side
P.S.: I've revolutionized my team, starting from the same concept, and I'm trying to beat the tower at lv.50.
It works better, it's more stallish, 2 out of 3 run Substitute (!).
Updates will come
I would like to share the sixth Battle Tower Doubles team. I've seen some Rain teams passing by, and probably that's the superior weather to use. This is mainly because Swift Swimmers are generally offensively stronger and bulkier. I used Kingdra / Ludicolo / Zapdos / Metagross to great succes, but I wanted to share something new. In fact, I have viable 2v2 teams abusing any weather, but the Sunny Day team is something special, as it makes use of a combination of Flash Fire, Explosion and Chlorophyll in a rather unique way.
Among the Chlorophyll users, Exeggutor is arguably the best Special attacker and Shiftry is a fitting Fake Out user. This makes Shiftry noteworthy, even though its movepool, stats and typing leave much to be desired. Flash Fire + Sun is devastating, so that makes Pokémon such as Arcanine, Houndoom and Ninetales interesting. Then there's Moltres, which sports the most powerful unboosted Fire-type Attack in the game and it gets Morning Sun too. There's so much to choose from. Defensively, Regirock (among others) becomes a behemoth because it no longer cares as much about Water-type moves.
I've experimented thoroughly and what I finally came up with for the Battle Tower is a very agressive team. Since I am on mobile now, a simple overview is all I can give, but I will edit this post until it has the same quality and detail as the others.
Short version, aside from EV spreads: Ghost + Explosion/Protect, Gengar uses Fire Punch on partner when Shiftry explodes, Exeggutor takes care of Dragons. Houndoom has reasonable type synergy with Gengar, and Flash Fire is useful for opposing Fire types.
I would like to share the sixth Battle Tower Doubles team. I've seen some Rain teams passing by, and probably that's the superior weather to use. This is mainly because Swift Swimmers are generally offensively stronger and bulkier. I used Kingdra / Ludicolo / Zapdos / Metagross to great succes, but I wanted to share something new. In fact, I have viable 2v2 teams abusing any weather, but the Sunny Day team is something special, as it makes use of a combination of Flash Fire, Explosion and Chlorophyll in a rather unique way.
Among the Chlorophyll users, Exeggutor is arguably the best Special attacker and Shiftry is a fitting Fake Out user. This makes Shiftry noteworthy, even though its movepool, stats and typing leave much to be desired. Flash Fire + Sun is devastating, so that makes Pokémon such as Arcanine, Houndoom and Ninetales interesting. Then there's Moltres, which sports the most powerful unboosted Fire-type Attack in the game and it gets Morning Sun too. There's so much to choose from. Defensively, Regirock (among others) becomes a behemoth because it no longer cares as much about Water-type moves.
I've experimented thoroughly and what I finally came up with for the Battle Tower is a very agressive team. Since I am on mobile now, a simple overview is all I can give, but I will edit this post until it has the same quality and detail as the others.
Short version, aside from EV spreads: Ghost + Explosion/Protect, Gengar uses Fire Punch on partner when Shiftry explodes, Exeggutor takes care of Dragons. Houndoom has reasonable type synergy with Gengar, and Flash Fire is useful for opposing Fire types.
Looking forward to reading more in-depth on this! I was considering making a Sun doubles team for a while (I got to about 60 wins on the Subway with a Ninetales/Garchomp/Zapdos/Blaziken Sun team) but haven't seriously put much thought into it. I was actually considering Jumpluff as my Sun setter and general supporter but it's so frail I'm dubious about it.
I don't really understand why you are using Starmie here, Golden Blissey. If Latios has a bad matchup such as Snorlax, Blissey, Umbreon, Regice, or Registeel, then Starmie will often lose as well. They share many counters right? Wouldn't it be better to put Metagross in the middle then? Or a Fighting-type like Medicham/Heracross/Machamp instead of Starmie? Maybe I'm missing something crucial here, but I couldn't find it in your description ;)
By the way, have you tried using Fake Out + Protect + Dig/Fly? IIRC that can be done with Persian and Sneasel. If the opponent doesn't have Leftovers (and is not the Timid Jolteon or an Inner Focus Pokémon), then I think you win the judgement. Ghost-types can be beaten with Shadow Ball.
Sorry for the late response. Metagross was originally in the second position of the team, but Latios struggles with the Umbreon on Greta's Gold Symbol team, so Metagross was moved to the lead position to get the Explosion off and allows Latios to sweep through the rest of her team. Metagross also has a good matchup against the Heracross on Greta's Silver Symbol team too. For the rest of the streak the team can be used as Latios / Metagross / Starmie, just I had move Metagross in to the lead and liked it throughout the streak. I probably should change Starmie to something to handle threats to Latios, or only use Metagross in the lead position for Symbol matches with Greta.
Additionally, I have updated my Battle Tower doubles rain team as per Kommo-o's suggestions. The changes have been very useful, and I have extended my streak to 182 wins and still going strong. Please see the updated team below.
Ludicolo @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Fake Out
- Leech Seed
Hydro Pump -> Protect: Since the team now uses Thunder on Zapdos to break through targets, Hydro Pump is no longer needed on Kingdra. Switching to Protect allows Kingdra to play safer when switching its partner, or for when Metagross uses Explosion. ->:
Switching Raikou to Zapdos gives the team a bulkier back up Rain Dance setter. Although Raikou's speed is lost, the bulk and power of Zapdos allows it to support the team better when dealing with Double Team users and if Kingdra is unable to get up the rain initially. Rain Dance is used over Extrasensory since it allows Zapdos to function on its own if it needs the rain for Thunder to take down a threat. Leftovers allows Zapdos to take chip damage easier, and the EVs make Zapdos as fast and as strong as possible, focusing more on power with Modest. ->
:
Latios was the weakest choice of the team, and switching it to Metagross gives the team a much needed Steel-type and physical attacker. Moveset is standard for all out attacker Metagross, with Shadow Ball chosen as the coverage move for Gengar and to hit most other threats neutrally. The Spe EVs allow Metagross to outspeed Gyarados and Milotic to get off a quick Explosion to stop them from being a problem. With Sitrus Berry and the given HP EVs, Metagross can survive 4 Seismic Tosses if the situation ever arises. 8 EVs can be moved from Atk to Def to avoid the chance of a 2HKO from a single target Earthquake from Metagross 3 & 8, but that scenario is too specific to lose Max Atk over.
My streak is currently 182 wins, and still going strong. So far the team hasn't faced too many worries, with Thunder on Zapdos in the rain being an MVP for the team. I have yet to face a Latias + Lapras / Walrein lead, which would put the team in a very bad starting position.
Also, I got around to mapping out the Battle Pyramid. I have only done this through observations and exploring while playing the game, and haven't look at the game code or anything under the hood.
From what I can tell, each floor is a 32 x 32 tile room divided into 16 sections of size 8 x 8 tiles (see below). The layout for each of the 16 sections is randomly selected from the list of possible 8 x 8 sections (see below). When you enter a floor, you enter on the tile where the warp tile for that section would be. The exit is in the same location for each the 16 possible sections, which is indicated by the blue tile below.
So how is this useful? By knowing the possible locations of the exit warp, you know where the exit could be once you figure out what section you are in.
Next I want to add possible Trainer and item locations, I just need to find an appropriate way to represent either in AdvanceMap and still be able to export the map image.
Please don't hesitate to let me know if anyone has any questions concerning my Battle Pyramid reserach :)
The fact that you can just unceremoniously get dumped on by stuff like resttalk double OHKO move dewgong without actually making any incorrect decisions is literally amazing.
It's been a while, but I started another attempt at the Battle Pike last night with the team previously posted and managed to keep it running to 350 rooms! Still ongoing and I think I'm going to take a break before returning to it. 400 rooms seems like a laughable goal but given that I was only hoping to get slightly past 300 you never know...
Had quite an easy run for the most part, including one round where all 7 rooms were full of idle NPCs. Blissey and Metagross have thoroughly pulled their weight in the later battles, though; Blissey takes physical punishment from things like Aerodactyl and Latios like a champ and Toxics them to death. Had a very close shave with Lucy at ~300 rooms (can't remember the precise number) in which I went into battle with a team of sleeping Pokemon; made some very unwise switches but she inexplicably chose to keep Resting with her +3 Atk/Speed Gyarados rather than finish off Metagross. Probably the AI being too clever for its own good, since I guess Return being ineffective against Metagross meant that the computer prioritised healing instead.
Aside from this, I'm currently planning to do a Pyramid run in which I'll take two Pickup users with me in the first two rounds, with the goal of collecting as many items as humanly possible to set me up for later rounds. I'm thinking Flygon/Phanpy/Linoone for round one and Metagross/Phanpy/Linoone for round two. I've also been working up a really good streak in Battle Tower multi with an NPC partner, which has long been my favourite mode of the Tower. Will post about that in due course when I've got a braggable streak.
EDIT/UPDATE: I got greedy and decided I couldn't wait and holy crap I did it! 406 rooms, hell yeah!!
Fought Lucy again and once again she nearly wiped me out... her damn Seviper's Focus Band triggered and it finished Starmie with Crunch. Blissey saw to Seviper and managed to burn Steelix with a critical hit Flamethrower, which turned out to save my life as Steelix used Explosion and left Blissey with a shred of health remaining. Gyarados came out and rather than doing the sensible thing and using Return it used Dragon Dance, leaving it wide open for a Toxic from Blissey. From there, Metagross was able to drop it with Rock Slide.
Final battle at room 406 was a double battle against Dragonite and Tyranitar. Starmie took out Dragonite with Ice Beam but Metagross, being frozen, couldn't do a thing. With Blissey fainted, I was expecting to lose as Tyranitar took both my Pokemon down to 50% with EQ but Metagross miraculously unfroze on the second turn and Meteor Mash'd Tyranitar to death. You really do need luck on your side... though in fairness that goes for every single other facility too. But god, I love the Pike. One of my favourite facilities.
FINAL EDIT/UPDATE: And my streak finally broke at 543 rooms.
I lost due to a misplay, plain and simple. Metagross was dead, Starmie was at 2 HP and Blissey had full health. I was up against a Kindler who led with Ninetales. Fearing that it had Quick Attack I switched out to Blissey only to be slammed with an Iron Tail, which lowered her defence. I poisoned it but it hit me again and got another defence drop. Next out was Typhlosion, who finished Blissey off with Earthquake - Starmie dispatched Typhlosion with Surf but last out was Misdreavus, who survived Starmie's Surf and dropped it with Shadow Ball.
So since I got this far, I thought I'd expound a bit about my general tactics. The main element to success is knowing more or less what you're going to face behind at least one of the doors. This sounds obvious but let me explain. In probably 75% of instances, I would take the door the attendant described unless it was the "is it... a Trainer?" room.
The "is it... a Trainer?" room must be avoided at all costs, since it's just a battle and no heal. It's the worst option of the 8 and while it's always nice to blindly walk into a room and meet an attendant who heals you it literally never happened to me during this run. 99% of the time I had at least some idea of what I'd be encountering in a chosen room. I think this is part of my mindset and playstyle improving over time, since when I first played the Frontier (more years ago than I'd like to admit), I always took "here we will have you battle a somewhat-tough Trainer" to mean "a Trainer with legendaries/top-tier Pokemon", which is manifestly not always the case (and at higher levels, "somewhat-tough" is all relative anyway), so avoided the "aroma of Pokemon" room like the plague. During this run, if the attendant mentioned the "aroma of Pokemon" room, I would pretty much always take it unless I had a team of frozen Pokemon. Wild Pokemon can be abused to get free Natural Cure switch-heals - they have the awful AI wild Pokemon are blessed with and mostly just spam status moves, which if I've already got a team of afflicted Pokemon obviously won't work.
Starmie and Blissey's complete indifference to status meant that the "wave of nostalgia" room should ALWAYS be chosen. There's no battle and even if you aren't afflicted with a status there's still a chance of the Gentleman healing you anyway. I had a couple of rounds where it was literally "get inflicted with a status, get healed, get inflicted with a status, get healed" for all 7 rooms. Lastly, the "whispering" room is generally a decent option if she mentions it at the door. If you wind up with an idle NPC, perfect. Double Battles can fuck you if you wind up facing two decently dangerous options, but the majority of foes are just thrown together and have no synergy at all. Besides, if you're healed, it's 3 on 2 which tips the odds hugely in your favour.
TL;DR:
"Is it... a Trainer?" - avoid at all costs
"It seems to have the aroma of Pokemon" - joint 2nd best
"I heard whispering" - joint 2nd best
"I felt a wave of nostalgia" - best
So, that's my adventure with the Pike over and done with. I hope you've enjoyed reading this, I've had a lot of fun playing and it's made me realise I can get decent streaks if I really try. Onto the next facility!
