Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)

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Pikachu315111

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Well... I guess that confirms that they're doing something with Zygarde... or should I say Zorrogarde? But first comments:

Nekkoala looks interesting too, but I'm going to go out and say it might be fighting typed judging by the little bit of artwork that is next to it. Certainly interesting.

Lillymon <3 Flower Cannon is an awesome name for a move. I hope it's actually a Grass type move though too (It can get away with being Fairy I guess), and not a Steel typed...

Let's really hope not... I hope it is just some sort of triumvirate where when you have all the starters you can access a hidden area...
Actually I'm thinking a staller. It'll probably be slow (being a sleepy koala and all) and it's Ability is made to not be withered down by a status affliction while also taking advantage of Rest.

If it was named Flower Cannon than I think it would have been Grass-type, but I have to think they gave it the slightly more fancier name to justify it being Fairy-type.

Hmm, what about these Pokemon is the same. Well they're small, can be found on early routes, they're mobile... walking Pokemon? (and I can't see Nekkoala following you so makes sense why they single out Iwanko (and the starters)).

PokéJungle+ ‏@pokejungle 41m41 minutes ago
NEW: Magearna’s ability Soul Heart raises its sp attack each time surrounding Pokémon faints

Hmmm... sounds cool. Surrounding Pokemon? Doesn't have to be opponents then.
Hmm, and combining the flower theme and its connection with Kalos, maybe Magearna is a result of making a Pokemon based on the Ultimate Weapon? It has a flower theme, it's manmade, and its Ability has it gaining power by absorbing the energy of fallen allies.

Zygarde 10% starts off at only 125 HP at level 50 and then jumps all the way to 287 what the actual fuck is going on?
Whoa! You're right, that's actually unprecedented! Forme changes never changed HP, I figured since it would mess with calculating how much HP the Pokemon had loss during battle. But if they decided to change that it opens a LOT of possibilities. For one, Mega Pokemon can now have their HP increased so walls and other Pokemon wanting more lasting ability now have a chance. Also I always thought the not evolving during a battle was due to HP, but if that's no longer an issue maybe they can now do mid-battle evolutions!

Japanese official trailer is up!
Gonna talk about Zygarde Complte soon, but just have to talk about dat music! Awesome, wonder if its the trainer or wild Pokemon music, guessing the latter?

Stinks they didn't keep it in the English trailer. Actually I feel the English trailer is completely outclassed by the Japanese trailer. Come on PUSA, you're suppose to give us info equal to the Japanese footage just in English!

The only thing we know about Pokemon Sun and Moon's E3 stuff is that Treehouse is going to be streaming gameplay live (though we're unsure if its before or after the Zelda U/NX stream, there's been some confusion over that). Since its an actual livestream of gameplay, we might be getting reveals of a different nature than E3 2013, which just dropped a trailer confirming Fairy types.
I can maybe see them running into a new Pokemon or two from wild encounters/trainer battles and revealing more features of the Rotom Dex at most (maybe also trainer customisation). Though I think what they'll be playing will probably be a demo made for E3... and I hope this so they can then announce we'll be able to download the demo and play it ourselves (while ORAS demo had problems, it was still a great idea and I support them to keep doing demo such as that... MAYBE also making sure they cleared out any spare data that isn't needed for the demo).

ZORROGARDE:
Okay, let's actually talk about Zygarde Complete.

First, just awesome! Glad to see they didn't abandon it. It may not be getting a third version to itself but looks like it may be having importance in more than one region so that's nothing that can be said for most Legendaries. And I guess in a way it makes sense if you see Zygarde representing the earth to Solgaleo's sun and Lunala's moon (now making me with those two had Aura Abilities but whatever; I doubt Zygarde-C has Aura Break as its Ability anyway). Say, wasn't there a giant tree on one of the Alola islands, hmm...

As for the transformation, yeah it looks like a low HP thing, sort of like a desperation move. Makes me wonder if Zygarde 50% can also have this Ability and if it works the same way. Balance wise it doesn't make sense for 50% to have a better chance of doing it as it'll make 10% outclassed even with increased Speed. I'm suspecting we may have a series of forme changes. Like maybe it starts out as 50%, when it loses half its HP it becomes 10%, and when it loses all but a tenth of its HP it'll become Complete. Though I don't know where Core fits into all this.

The HP changing it interesting and I already talked about the implication of mid-HP change (maybe that's also why the increased the HP bar to be 100 pixels for easier visual calculation). However I'm wondering about its offensive stats. Right now Zygarde is a physical Pokemon, all its Signature Moves are also physical. But The Zorro Special Core Enforcer looks like a Special move. So if Core Enforcer a Physical move that looks Special or will Zygarde-C be made into a mix attacker with equally high Attack and Special Attack? Well whatever it is, it at least has style. Oh, and being it was Super Effective no Garchomp probably Dragon-type, which is nice as all of Zygarde's other Signature moves are Ground-type (and that doesn't look like a Ground-type move).

But this does raise a question about the existence of Pokemon Z. Was this always planned or is this what has become of Z? If the former why include Zygarde's "Thousands" Signature Moves into XY. Also nice those are finally getting released, but what about AZ's Floette and her Signature attack, Light of Ruin? Obviously still too early to tell, but something to keep in mind.

I think that's all I have to say for now. Map later today.
 
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Xen

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Nice to see Zygarde still exists. Makes me think that SuMo's story will have some sort of connection to the Gen VI games, which will be cool.

At the very least, I imagine Zygarde's gonna have a role in the post-game; wouldn't make sense to show off a bunch of new toys for a legendary in a new Gen, and not have some way to catch it. It would be a big middle finger to newcomers if Zygarde has to be transferred to SuMo with a Gen VI game and Bank, since there will be some who will pick up the games that didn't touch Gen VI.

The Koala and Rockdoge are also interesting. The Koala's immunity to status bar sleep is new and quite interesting on paper
 
Ah, so the Zygarde forms and the Thousand moves still exist. Good, now let's see Eternal Floette and Light of Ruin make it in :P

Also, tiering 10% Zygarde is going to be VERY weird due to its anchored attachment to 100% Zygarde, unless there's some way you can use one of them without the other. We'll get to that bridge in due time. Core Enforcer is a godly looking move, and all of that HP on 100% Zygarde, my gosh.
 
Ah, so the Zygarde forms and the Thousand moves still exist. Good, now let's see Eternal Floette and Light of Ruin make it in :P

Also, tiering 10% Zygarde is going to be VERY weird due to its anchored attachment to 100% Zygarde, unless there's some way you can use one of them without the other. We'll get to that bridge in due time. Core Enforcer is a godly looking move, and all of that HP on 100% Zygarde, my gosh.
Substitute shenanigans inbound. Cool concept though, I just hope it isn't a darmanitan level of stupidity or a total game breaker like primal plus mega.

Well not that it matters, it runs on rule of cool rather than balance.
 
Substitute shenanigans inbound. Cool concept though, I just hope it isn't a darmanitan level of stupidity or a total game breaker like primal plus mega.

Well not that it matters, it runs on rule of cool rather than balance.
At least it can be better than Zen Darmanitan in that it gets a lot of HP after transforming... as if it had recieved a Wish. And I guess it won't have that base Speed.
 
At least it can be better than Zen Darmanitan in that it gets a lot of HP after transforming... as if it had recieved a Wish. And I guess it won't have that base Speed.
Worst case scenario would be forcing you to take a hit or SE hit to trigger the form change. If it is based on HP and heals back it's going to be so easy to abuse, forcing you to take a hit or SE hit then transform would be one heck of a tricky requirement...worse than Meloetta to be honest.
 
Substitute shenanigans inbound. Cool concept though, I just hope it isn't a darmanitan level of stupidity or a total game breaker like primal plus mega.

Well not that it matters, it runs on rule of cool rather than balance.
I'm personally hoping for something like White Kyurem: Powerful as hell, but not Primal levels of stupid.
 
Someone calculated the form's HP to be something like Base 65 (10%) and Base 227 (Complete), and Zygarde gains back the difference in that HP on changing. In a competitive setting, how much HP does that lead Zygarde to gain?

There's some mechanical questions I think we'd need to confirm before we can assess Complete's viability overall, but it's intriguing to say the least. I think the biggest questions on my mind (if any are answered feel free to respond)

- What will its stats look like? 10% looks to be a fragile Speedster, 50% is a tank, this one the obvious expectation is a "Mighty Glacier" trope in terms off high offense and defense, low speed. Besides the motif, I'm also just interested to see if the stats ultimately justify the rather tricky way you'd play with it.

- More specifics about how the forme change behaves. Does it require taking a hit, or is it just losing HP? Does it happen immediately upon losing the HP? Does Zygarde remain in the form for the rest of the fight, or does it turn back upon switching out?
The last part of that is a big curiosity of mine, because it becomes a big point about its usage if Zygarde Complete can switch out or if it reverts upon doing so. The former would make it great for things like Leech Seed or (Healing) Wish support to get its monstrous HP (and likely overall bulk) back up, whereas the latter would make it a "live dangerously" mon where you wanna keep it weak so it doesn't return to its more vulnerable 10% form. And this might be the biggest stretch, but would it only be for the one battle, or could it be an initial shift and then retained so you could start a battle in Complete form? I ask because Shaymin gives a minor precedent for starting a battle in a form that can be reverted by a battle induced mechanic (in its case, freezing). Again, it's a stretch, but Zygarde would see a huge effect on its playstyle based on what form (Core, 10, 50, Complete) it can or must start the battle in.
 
New Pokémon!!!

And now I'm never going to be able to catch up on the last 8 pages I missed reading! It's just going to take too damned long!!! I mean, I have 7 more pages to catch up on!
 
I can't help but wonder what a chesto/rest set would look on Zygarde-100%. Ignoring practicality, I just want to see that massive HP.
 

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The new Zygarde formes are in this game... Well I saw that coming.

That's a very...weird way to transform Zygarde-10 into Perfect Zygarde. Z-10...becomes Zygarde-Complete at extremely low HP due to its ability. That's kind of a rather odd form change and I'm not sure how that will apply in practice. Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows are both exclusive to Z-10 it seems, but Core Enforcer is just epic! Complete Zygarde looks totally badass, but that Core Enforcer move looks really cool, and the Z animation really fits a Z Pokemon. I'm not sure what type it is other than that Garchomp is apparently weak to it...in that case, I'm not sure how it will fare against Xerneas and Yveltal.

I'm not sure what relevance Zygarde will have to this story though, and the fact that we're seeing the new Zygarde forms here suggests the Alola region might have some relationship with the Kalos region one way or another...perhaps a post-game story? Perhaps Zygarde, Xerneas, and Yveltal may have something in Sun and Moon's storyline though, and perhaps some relationship with Solgaleo and Lunala...it seems intriguing how they're going to implement this in Sun and Moon tbh.

I didn't say this before, but I do find Solgaleo and Lunala's type combination to be rather weird, especially Solgaleo's (it's weak to Fire lol). Their signature moves sound cool but their names are kind of stupid (Sunsteel Beam...and Moongeist Strike).

Either way, this is interesting news. Can't wait to see the new Zygarde forms in Sun and Moon, been really waiting to see more of Zygarde tbh.
 
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The new Zygarde formes are in this game... Well I saw that coming.

That's a very...weird way to transform Zygarde-10 into Perfect Zygarde. Z-10...becomes Zygarde-Complete at extremely low HP due to its ability. That's kind of a rather odd form change and I'm not sure how that will apply in practice.
Maybe it turned into 100% because it almost got KOed. For all we know, maybe Zygarde is now forced to begin at 10%, then turns at 50% at a higher HP than the one we saw, and then 100%, but it can outright skip the 50% step if it gets to 100% requirements first.
 
Well this has certainly been a eventful day lol. I'm very fond of both the new pokemon released today. I'm so glad the dog is NOT a normal type, cause if it was then it would have been a lilipup clone. Also Nekkoala's ability is actually very strong, especially if it comes a physical offensive tank with reliable healing. Its way too early to speculate right now but if GF played their cards right with that guy's stats and movepool then its evolved form might be very competitively viable.

Magearna's soul heart ability seems to be a special version of moxie according to several sources, which is something I've been wanting for ages now. However it getting boosts from any pokemon that faints is quite unusual. It almost reminds me of some sort of vampire that feeds of every defeated soul and is something I would have expected more from a dark or ghost type. Regardless it makes this guy dangerous in both singles and doubles and I'm looking forward to seeing what its signature move does.

And last but certainly not least; Man Zygarde complete looks terrifying!! Just what kind of BST is this guy going to have? Even if Zygarde complete had no further stat boosts other than hp (and the rest is 50 % form stats) it already has over 720 bst that puts it over Arceus (who seriously needs some sort of new God-form to keep up these days). But realistically it looks like it will easily match the primals and M-Ray in terms of stats, and it being able to hold a item could make it a M-ray 2.0. So all that leaves is how GF are going to keep this guy moderately balanced. I highly doubt the theory that healing Zygarde turns it back to the 10/50 % form. Mostly because of the huge jump in hp when it transforms which effectively brings it back into the ~ 70% health range, so why should healing it a bit more make it power down? Powering down when switching makes a bit more sense and would put it into the same camp of geoXerm where switching out is seldom done. But when you think about lore the 100 % form is just lots of Zygarde cells joining together, so why would they all leave the moment you switch out? The ecosystem is deemed to be no longer being in danger if you switch out? Maybe, but I would not be surprised that once he becomes 100 % he stays that way for the rest of the match.

Assuming that Zygarde does not power down after transforming then this guy could actually dwarf Mega Ray in terms of OP. Now that Zygarde has this fancy (special?) dragon signature move along with the physical ground thousand moves I'm expecting its relatively low attack and special attack (50 % form) to be significantly boosted and for the bst to go over 800. And don't forget this guy was made specifically to beat the X/Y cover legendaries so I expect big things from its ability so that Xerneas can't just OHKO it at 100 % form. Having to start out as a weak 10 % form (and maybe 50 % at half health) does not seem to be enough of a constraint to me when 10% has "incredible speed" according to GF. All he needs is either substitute, rest + chesto or just focus sash to transform and then start wrecking stuff. Personally I would just use rest due to its insane hp which will probably make it super hard to kill.

So yeah looks like we are in for another break-the-game mon. I wonder what Arceus the GOD of all Pokemon has in stall for gen 7...
 
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Dude, you don't need a vampire or it being a dark type(evil type fighting in an unfair way), fairies are creepy as hell, some steal eyes just for the sake of it, other feed on the bones of children exclusively.

I know it is counter intuitive for the folks that think fairy us cute of mischievous, but they where often seen as a force of chaos or harm in their inception.
 
Dude, you don't need a vampire or it being a dark type(evil type fighting in an unfair way), fairies are creepy as hell, some steal eyes just for the sake of it, other feed on the bones of children exclusively.

I know it is counter intuitive for the folks that think fairy us cute of mischievous, but they where often seen as a force of chaos or harm in their inception.
Not to mention that there are already some Fairy-type Pokemon that could give some Dark-types a run for their money. Or moves, for that matter... see Play Rough, where they beat you up by pretending to be playful.
 
Red and Blue
Ruby
and Sapphire
Diamond
and Pearl (Well, Blue vs Pink)
It's a common theme.
True, but Red & Blue are really Red & Green (JP), and Ruby and Sapphire have already been brought into the AZOTH theory via ORAS (since those were the games that name dropped it in the first place). I'm not counting Diamond and Pearl because it suits me. ;P

So I think my point stands that three regions of Red vs. Blue games have this subtle theme of space and alchemy going on and it looks like Sun and Moon are about to bust it wide open.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see!
 
I'd think she probably just gets upset at things getting hurt.

Which naturally just powers her up to hurt things harder.

Edit: I actually really like the Ultimate Weapon connection theory. Magearna has a few similarities in look, and if it feeds off life force to become stronger? Potential to be so much cooler than the mecha-Diancie I had originally assumed it to be. :D

Also, I don't think we'll only see 100% Zygarde as a result of 10%'s ability. It just.... doesn't make sense. What about poor 50%? Not saying it makes much sense as is, like :D but I reckon you'll have to collect the cells, and eventually be able to send out 100% from the get-go.
 
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Upstart

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Guesses for trio plus rockweiler"s secret
1. These are the Mons we'll synchronized/ mega evolve with
2. Going off alchemy theory- the dogs final evolution type changes based upon starter in the party
---- possibly allowing dog to change color and type while maintaining one stat spread like Rotom forms
- kind of the next level of panchams evolution with different type options
3. These are our walking pokemon

I really like inclusion and early reveal of z-100. I honestly see that game freak has been working on this game for a long time and used gen 5 as the bridging generation to enter into the new era of 3d modeled Pokemon games. I have high hopes for the attention to detail and intricacies of the story.
 
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And now we have Zygarde 10 and 100% confirmed for the games. Now I'm really hyped! I just wish I could get my hands on my own Squishy.

And for the first time, we've had a preview for the soundtrack besides the main title. This occasion is nothing short of historic!
 
True, but Red & Blue are really Red & Green (JP), and Ruby and Sapphire have already been brought into the AZOTH theory via ORAS (since those were the games that name dropped it in the first place). I'm not counting Diamond and Pearl because it suits me. ;P

So I think my point stands that three regions of Red vs. Blue games have this subtle theme of space and alchemy going on and it looks like Sun and Moon are about to bust it wide open.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see!
What I'm saying is that Red and Blue are commonly seen together. In the case of Zygarde, it's likely nothing more than a reference to Xerneas and Yveltal.
 
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