Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I'm REALLY late with this so let me try to cover a lot of ground in a little time:

POKEMON:
Morelull:
Where most people see a new mushroom Pokemon, many competitive players see a new Spore user (it's even the basis of its name: More lull (sleep)). :P
I'm debating whether I like the typing or not. On one hand it's nice to have another Grass/Fairy since a lot of Grass-types seem to have fairy/elf/sprite/nymph like qualities yet only the Whimsicott family got it and they're not one of the Grass-types I would have though to get the typing. Speaking of which that's my problem with Morelull, it doesn't look much like a fairy-like creature either. Yes, I know about fairy rings but does Morelull look like a ring to you? I suppose its evolution could "fix" that but I think at least Morelull should have maybe remained pure Grass.
Not spectacular Abilities, Effect Spore could sometimes be a hindrance if you want to afflict a certain type of status and, unless they changed it, Illuminate does nothing (come on, how hard is it to make it decrease an opponent's accuracy by 1 stage when sent out?). Hopefully it gets a decent Hidden Ability.
It's description sounds a bit like Oddish with it walking around at night to find new places to plant itself and feed (though Morelull feeds off the soil while Oddish is looking for a nice sunbathing spot).


BTW, soporific means "to induce sleep & drowsiness" in case you think they forgot its going to be a Spore user.
Otherwise there's not much else to say about it. Neat it's base on both bioluminescent mushrooms and fairy rings, but it's just a plain first stage so looking forward to see what its evolution has to offer and how different it'll be from the other mushroom Pokemon.

Pyukumuku: The sea cucumber Pokemon I always hoped they do: one which spews out its organs!
Water is alright, it's an aquatic creature and being a pure type was never a bad thing (Water also is a good pure type to be). Also I think what we're seeing of Pyukumuku is what we're going to get, it's gimmick tells me it's going to be a solo Pokemon with no evolutions. Could be wrong, it also looks to be partially based on several species of sea slugs (and maybe an urchin?) so if they want they could go that route with it, but I think the gimmick might get nerfed from a "stronger" evolution unless it makes it easier for it to get knocked out.
Innards Out is the one in the spotlight here, a Final Gambit-like Ability when the opponent knocks out Pyukumuku. Opponents will be careful wanting to slowly whittle down its HP giving the user two choices: trying to do as much with it as possible and/or setting it up to do as much damage as possible when it faints. We'll have to see how good its HP and support/status movepool is before we can make any calls (I'd imagine they'd want to keep its HP medium to medium-low, making its Ability useful but not necessarily a guaranteed OHKO (especially for any Pokemon who's base HP is either below or matches)).
It has quite the contradictory Pokedex entries, and many involve people throwing it. It's disliked to Alolans throw them back into the ocean as a part-time job. Oh, but since they prefer to starve then move from their favorite spot Alolans feel sorry for it and throw them back into the ocean to find food. Also it creates a fluid that's used for skin care products. So is it liked or not liked?
However I do like all the info they have on it and what they're telling make it sound unique. It's complex relation with Alolans, it liking to stay in one spot even if it means starving, and of course it having an fist-like organ which it spews out (thus explaining how Innards Out works: it gives its all to give you on last literal gut punch). Also it's fainting animation has it using the organ to hold itself up which I find funny (which sounds a bit morbid saying that out loud).
Design is simple but gets the point across. Yes it looks like a piece of dessert but maybe that's to connect to the basis animal also having a type of food in its name. I'll be looking forward to chucking these things into the ocean (wait, does that sound like I don't like it? I'm rather neutral on it. It just sounds like that'll be a mini-game, Pyukumuku Chucking (the name works on so many levels))!

Wishiwashi: Zygarde ain't the only Pokemon that can come together!
It's a fish so its Water-type. NEXT.
Schooling sounds interesting, turning it from Solo Form to the presumable more more powerful School Form. Now the trailer makes it sound like it'll only be able to do this at a certain level while the site is a bit more ambiguous. However the site also says "Wishiwashi that have encountered many dangerous situations and have a lot of experience calling on their allies", so maybe how strong it is is dependent on level (though if that's the case its odd it doesn't have multiple forms of different sized swarms)? But there is major downside to this Ability: it reverts back if its HP is low. Now Bulbapedia says at half while Serebii says its level dependent, still this could break Wishiwashi. Unless School Form is SO strong (and bulky) that's difficult to do, it might suffer the same fate as the Archen family (I get why, school of fish gather together so it makes running away easier, but still have we learned nothing from the Archen family? Like could it maybe instead revert back once attacked but reform at the start of next turn, that way both player and opponent would need to play a game of Speed & priority to best use/hinder it).
Since they split the description into two both repeat the same information. A Solo Form one looks weak, but its feared because it can send out a SOS light from its eyes to summon a swarm to create School Form which is so feared even Gyarados run from it. And it's also likely to be a solo Pokemon in terms of evolution as its potential evolution is part of its Ability gimmick. All in all, everything depends on what boost it gets and at what percentage of HP does it revert back.

ALOLAN POKEMON:
Meowth:
Maybe now it should also be called the "Classy Cat".
Already talked about the Type change, and they explained why nicely (Royal family spoiled them so they became selfish and prideful) though it does step on Purrloin's territory.
Same Abilities as usual, AKA if you don't use Technician what is wrong with you. A bit disappointing, though maybe Alolan Persian would bring something new.
Meowth was brought over like Vulpix though as a form of prestige. A gift to the royal family, only those worthy could have one so no filthy commoners. WELL that didn't last long, monarchy was destroyed and Alolan Meowth became wild Pokemon.
And incase you're wondering, Hawaii actually has a cat overpopulation problem. However the cats were just brought over by people moving to Hawaii, they weren't gifts to the royal family (though they did own cats... but apparently so did everyone else).
Look forward to Alolan Persian unless they have it revert back to normal Persian for some reason.

Marowak: So wait, a Ground-type Cubone evolves into a Fire/Ghost Marowak?
Yup, in the Japanese trailer they show it's a normal Cubone evolving. So Cubone didn't adapt alongside Marowak? I mean maybe making it part Ghost wouldn't make sense since that's a reference, but they could have made it a Fire-type and have the bond they carry be used as a torch. Of course the Japanese trailers do cut away before showing us the actual in-game evolution so maybe there's something they don't want to show us yet that'll explain it.
Sorry to all of those hoping for Rock Head Flare Blitz, but Marowak replaced Rock Head with Cursed Body... probably should have kept Rock Head. It does keep Lightning Rod though so it keeps its Electric-type immunity (and raises Special Attack if hit by an Electric move so maybe have it be made into a mixed attacker? Then again it does says fireballs it flings at opponents are weak though maybe they're just talking about Will-O-Wisp?).
So the reason for the change is that they live in an environment of Grass-types and so they became so close knit they gained a second sense (so shouldn't they be Psychic?). Also the mark on its head is actually where it rubs it bone club to light it on fire, like a match strip.
Odd normal Cubone evolves into it, but we'll see how that affects its gameplay when the games come out.

Raichu: Oh look who GameFreak & Pokemon Company remembered exists!
Obviously they weren't going to give Pikachu an Alolan form, BUT Raichu is fair game and they went far out with this concept. For one thing its now an Electric/Psychic-type. Why? BECAUSE PANCAKES! No, really, that's pretty much the answer the site gives before shrugging it off:

Even when re-creating Raichu the creators didn't care, they were too busy wanting pancakes.
Well whatever the reason it now uses its Psychic powers and larger tail to float around on its sail like a surfboard! "Hey, wouldn't it be more sense to make it Water-type then? Making it both a reference to Raichu using its tail to Surf in the Stadium games and even that tidal wave sensing Pikachu in the anime"? Here, have a plate of pancakes!
Back on track, its Ability is yet another boost for Electric Terrain, doubling Alolan Raichu's Speed. Odd, though this now makes me wonder if they did this so in a battle against Tapu Koko it can SOS summon an Alolan Raichu. But yeah, seems like they REALLY want Electric Terrain to get some use, but what of the other Terrain moves?
Oh, BTW its Psychic powers makes its cheeks release a sweet scent when rubbed for some reason. Probably smells like pancakes (no, I'm not letting this go. Why is it part Psychic-type besides being a cool offensive combination? Because it uses it tail to float around? What's wrong with the excuse it doing that by manipulating electormagnetic fields like the Magnemite family?).
A for its design, well I give the artists credit resisting the urge to make its color scheme more match Pikachu's. It looks to have some color swapping going on, specifically with the colors of the body and ears. Looks like it got a tan. I'm okay with it but I'm a bit bothered about how curvy it got maybe instead of round pancakes it should have eaten square or triangle ones.

And still no Mega Pokemon news... or non-Kanto Alolan Pokemon...

NEXT TIME: Team Skull is breaking skulls!
I hypothesize that Pikachu's intelligence is related to Raichu being psychic.
The Pokedex mentions that Pikachu is an intelligent Pokemon several times, I think.
 
The argument of "We've already seen X in-game, so Y can't happen" is getting quite old at this point. I don't think the fact that we've seen a normal pikachu by this point really proves anything, because there's almost no encounter context for most of the pokémon that we've seen, old or new. About the only actual encounters that we know of for sure are that Ledyba, Pikipek, Yungoos, and possibly Grubbin can be encountered on Route 1, and that Gumshoos is a totem pokémon who summons Yungoos 'tokens'. Likewise, we don't fully know at this point whether any of the original forms will co-exist with their Alolan forms within the game - Oricorio (and even Sinnoan Shellos and Gastrodon) provide enough doubt in my mind to say that each and every Alolan form pokémon might not prevent the inclusion of the original forms.

As an example, in a realistic sense, the likelihood of every meowth being so well kept that not one managed to escape or become lost and turn feral in the time that it would take for a fundamental shift in their DNA due to a pampered environment is fairly unlikely. This is discounting a Japanese meowth from finding its way to Alola and breeding and co-populating with the local variant.

The pikachu that we saw before, and indeed, most of the older pokémon that we've seen up until this point were shown before we even knew that an Alolan form was a thing. Besides, it's not like there isn't a precedent for placeholders like this. I remember all of the speculation that happened pre-ORAS when it seemed like Steven would have a Mega Charizard X. I could see them creating an Alolan Pikachu, just for the sake of doing so (the 'official' reason for Raichu-A is that it ate too many pancakes), just as I could see Exeggcute remaining the same due to the lore that Exeggutor-A is based on.

It's just that, this argument has become stale, and it has yet to be conclusively proven or disproven.

Edit: My meowth example reminded me of something:

Screen Shot 2016-08-12 at 2.26.17 PM.png


This was from the E3 trailer, at about 13:20.
 
Last edited:
They didn't prove anything, every evolution animation was cut before the end and we didn't actually see a Pikachu, Cubone or Eggsecute evolve into an Alolan variant.

I think Pikachu and Eggsecute won't get an Alolan variant but Cubone will. Going Ground -> Fire/Ghost is stupid.
The Pokedex says straight up that it evolved this way to kill off its predators. It makes sense for the baby form to still be vulnerable until it can properly fight back. Until then, Lunch for Lurantis.
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
The Pokedex says straight up that it evolved this way to kill off its predators. It makes sense for the baby form to still be vulnerable until it can properly fight back. Until then, Lunch for Lurantis.
This sounds like how Bagon figured out how to change its cellular structure (or something like that) to grow wings with Evolution and become a Draconic Butterfly of Death. (That's right, the most terrifying Mega-Pokemon is a Butterfly.)

This implies that some Alola forms are Darwin Evolution and some are Altered Evolutions. I was thinking that there could be an "Alola Stone" for Evolution from a Normal Pokemon to an Alola Pokemon, but Normal Cubone evolves into Alola Marowak because it wants to. That doesn't sound like something an Evolution Stone would cause. Is there an Alola Cubone that's identical to Normal Cubone except it evolves into a different Marowak, is there a new Evolution Stone, or is there Something Else? :/
 
This sounds like how Bagon figured out how to change its cellular structure (or something like that) to grow wings with Evolution and become a Draconic Butterfly of Death. (That's right, the most terrifying Mega-Pokemon is a Butterfly.)

This implies that some Alola forms are Darwin Evolution and some are Altered Evolutions. I was thinking that there could be an "Alola Stone" for Evolution from a Normal Pokemon to an Alola Pokemon, but Normal Cubone evolves into Alola Marowak because it wants to. That doesn't sound like something an Evolution Stone would cause. Is there an Alola Cubone that's identical to Normal Cubone except it evolves into a different Marowak, is there a new Evolution Stone, or is there Something Else? :/
It could just be an area evolution (a la leafeon, magnezone, etc.) except the entire alola region is the area.
 
It could just be an area evolution (a la leafeon, magnezone, etc.) except the entire alola region is the area.
Which makes me wonder if there will be some postgame area (like the artificial island) that counts as "Not Alolan" so that one could acquire the original forms in this gen if they wanted.
 
Likely what will happen is that there will be some kind of flag in the code of each Pokémon with an Alolan form similar to that of Shellos and Gastrodon. If the flag is on, then it will be Alolan or will evolve into an Alolan form. If not, it will stay normal. Pokémon from Gen I, III, IV, V, and VI will have the flag off and be normal. Some Alolan Pokémon may or may not have the flag, depending on the species and environment (theoretical example: only in the snowy areas will you find the Alolan forms of the Sandslash and Ninetales families, else where, they are normal). Others will always have the flag, requiring you to transfer from X, Y, Omega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, Red, Blue, or Yellow to get the older forms. When it comes to breeding, it will again likely be like Shellos and Gastrodon, with the form being determined by the mother* (the children of female* West Sea Gastrodon are always West Sea Shellos).

This is the simplest and best way to handle this. This way, we don't lose access to non-Alolan forms and they can continue as if nothing happened and peacefully coexist with their tropical relatives.

*Father/male in the case of Ditto
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
It could just be an area evolution (a la leafeon, magnezone, etc.) except the entire alola region is the area.
That makes sense, but you wouldn't be able to get the Normal Evolutions. What if the area is one island depending on the Pokemon? But, that brings up the question of how they do they bring this back in later generations?

Likely what will happen is that there will be some kind of flag in the code of each Pokémon with an Alolan form similar to that of Shellos and Gastrodon. If the flag is on, then it will be Alolan or will evolve into an Alolan form. If not, it will stay normal. Pokémon from Gen I, III, IV, V, and VI will have the flag off and be normal. Some Alolan Pokémon may or may not have the flag, depending on the species and environment (theoretical example: only in the snowy areas will you find the Alolan forms of the Sandslash and Ninetales families, else where, they are normal). Others will always have the flag, requiring you to transfer from X, Y, Omega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, Red, Blue, or Yellow to get the older forms. When it comes to breeding, it will again likely be like Shellos and Gastrodon, with the form being determined by the mother* (the children of female* West Sea Gastrodon are always West Sea Shellos).

This is the simplest and best way to handle this. This way, we don't lose access to non-Alolan forms and they can continue as if nothing happened and peacefully coexist with their tropical relatives.

*Father/male in the case of Ditto
That's my current theory on how they do this.
 
Which makes me wonder if there will be some postgame area (like the artificial island) that counts as "Not Alolan" so that one could acquire the original forms in this gen if they wanted.
Probably the only way to get them is via RBY Pokebank. Which would mean that their disclosed ability to transfer to Sun/Moon and only Sun/Moon make a lot more sense. (And go along with a certain Chinese leak.)
 
Probably the only way to get them is via RBY Pokebank. Which would mean that their disclosed ability to transfer to Sun/Moon and only Sun/Moon make a lot more sense. (And go along with a certain Chinese leak.)
So our Gen III-VI Pokémon will just randomly change upon transfer?
 
Probably the only way to get them is via RBY Pokebank. Which would mean that their disclosed ability to transfer to Sun/Moon and only Sun/Moon make a lot more sense. (And go along with a certain Chinese leak.)
That's what I figured what they meant by "keeping the same types when transferred".
 
Can't take a screenshot because I'm not near my computer, but the trailer on Serebii showed Alola Marowak appearing on the left side (Sun background), and Alola Raichu appearing on the right side (Moon background). Version exclusives?
I guess we should've expected they'd play us like that and make us choose between alolan forms.
 
The trailer on Serebii showed Alola Marowak appearing on the left side (Sun background), and Alola Raichu appearing on the right side (Moon background). Version exclusives?
I don't think it's relevant at all. Earlier in the trailer (and in other trailers) they change where the Pokémon appear and where the in-game footage is shown.
 
Given the information thus far, it could be true that Persian doesn't have an Aloha form. Since they proved Eggsecute, Cubone, and Pikachu don't.

So a few years levels of growing up takes Aloha-Meowth out of it's stuck-up teenage phase?
I can see a pre-evolution not having an alola form when an evolution does, but the idea that a different base alola form would evolve into the same form as the original is just ludicrous.
 
I don't think it's relevant at all. Earlier in the trailer (and in other trailers) they change where the Pokémon appear and where the in-game footage is shown.
Maybe you're right, but I bet there's a high chance of some alolan forms being version exclusives. Although in this day and age with the advent of GTS and easy access to wifi trading, I suppose version exclusives don't really matter anymore.
 
Maybe you're right, but I bet there's a high chance of some alolan forms being version exclusives. Although in this day and age with the advent of GTS and easy access to wifi trading, I suppose version exclusives don't really matter anymore.
I agree that some Alolan forms might be version exclusive, but they have announced when Pokémon were exclusive for previous games during the reveal of the Pokémon, and which backdrop is used shouldn't be taken as an indication since they have done so with too many of the new Pokémon and Alolan forms so far.
 
Also a happy yellow rodent that is essentially a surfer dude being a moon exclusive with a spiritually infused dead Pokemon being a sun exclusive just doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 3)

Top