Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

Status
Not open for further replies.
Edgy-the act of being edgy is basically teenage kids that think they're cool.

No, I think they fit edgy. That being said, Skulls are shame, Team Skull is a something a seven year old child would come up with for a name of an evil group. Hopefully, they turn out better then Plasma did in B/W (B/W2 Plasma was okay) but the name and outfits are doing them no favor not to mentioning the dancing is lame....
I think that the lame dancing is the point. My head canon is that they're teenagers who have been influenced by stories of other villainous teams and are imitating them because they think it's cool. It seems to be a parody of the edgy villain archetype(?).
 

brightobject

there like moonlight
is a Top Artistis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I enjoy Team Skull for a variety of reasons:

a) defeats the scope creep problem Pokemon has been having lately. Every plot since RSE has been about destroying the whole world.. but now it seems like these guys are a bunch of hoodlums led by a Slav with a big chip on his shoulder...and that's cool. It makes the conflicts more relatable, the villains more "realistic" (Guzma mentions failing the critieria for becoming a Trial Captain), and the plot might be a bit easier to follow as well (with the Gym leaders finally being relevant!)

b) they're not 'edgy'--at least not the bad kind of edgy. If anything, they are goofy as all hell. Just take a few moments to read the dialogue of the Grunts or Plumeria. They treat each other like one big family. They aren't some dark, hard-as-nails mafia gang. Everything from their wear to their attitude suggests unprofessionalism and a kind of youthfulness we haven't really seen with the other evil Teams (heavily regimented, organized, professional). If anything they are caricatures of edgy teens forming a rough-and-tumble gangs.

c) their aesthetic as a whole pleases me a lot. The lack of professionalism really appeals to me because it means the Grunts can have more personality on the whole instead of being mindless obedient drones. The entire skull -> S gimmick was incredibly well done (the logo is a tilted skull), and their themes (encounter to be specific) are punkass hip hop Limp Bizkit-esque jams that really feel fresh. One gripe I do have thought is that the female Grunt outfit seems a noticeably more heavily designed (more pieces of clothing like bracelets and bands) than the male Grunt.

I'm also pleasantly surprised by the mons leaked this time- morelull and wishiwashi in particular blew me away. Although I'm still disatisfied with Gen 7's mon design as a whole, this does give me some small degree of hope.
 
I think that the lame dancing is the point. My head canon is that they're teenagers who have been influenced by stories of other villainous teams and are imitating them because they think it's cool. It seems to be a parody of the edgy villain archetype(?).
It could very well be a parody of it, we will have to see the lines and what not in the actual game but in my eyes they would have to REALLY make found of edgy villains to make up for it.

edit: To the above person: Edgy-the act of being edgy is basically teenage kids that think they're cool. It doesn't have to be nail and coffin to be edgy. Also Plamsa wasn't about destroying the world, just either 1) freeing all pokemon..through pokemon battles.... 2) taking it over. Magma didn't want to destroy the world either they wanted to give people more land. And to top it off, I am not sure that Aqua would count as wanting to destroy the world either...they wanted more water. Flare just wanted to take all pokemon to save them? Really Galactic was the only one for world destruction and even then the grunts hand no idea what as actually up.
 
What I personally like about Team Skull so far is that they seem to be breathing a familiar air that the Pokemon games haven't really had for a while now. Comparing them to previous villain teams like Plasma, Galactic, and Flare, they're miles apart from each other.

From all that we know about them so far, they're almost similar in vein with Team Rocket, a kind of team we haven't seen in soooo many years. Something thats been really bugging me ever since Team Plasma is that the villain teams seemed to have a large impact on the story, in situations where the world was at stake because of their actions. It isn't a terrible plot point by any means, since a story needs to have some conflict, but the more recent generations kept using this particular kind of conflict and I personally felt it was getting monotonous, especially with Team Flare.

From what we've been shown, Team Skull, or more specifically Guzma, seem to have a more down to earth reasoning behind their objectives. They hate the Island trials and thus, they want to mess around with them. I have a feeling that "world domination" isn't the top thing on their list of things to do, especially since they seem to be a more gang street based kind of team. They just want to cause trouble.

Granted, this is all based on the trailers we've been shown and they could far well try the whole world domination shtick again with Solgaleo and Lunalaa, but I'm happy to see a team that isn't quite so "serious" as previous teams before.
 
Last edited:
I think that the lame dancing is the point. My head canon is that they're teenagers who have been influenced by stories of other villainous teams and are imitating them because they think it's cool. It seems to be a parody of the edgy villain archetype(?).
In my opinion, that kind of characterization can be both a strength and a weakness depending of whoever you ask. And while I personally like them for being a deliberate step-down compared to the previous teams, it also can make them hard to take seriously. (Someone could argue that it's deliberate, but at this point it's too early to tell)
 
It could very well be a parody of it, we will have to see the lines and what not in the actual game but in my eyes they would have to REALLY make found of edgy villains to make up for it.

edit: To the above person: Edgy-the act of being edgy is basically teenage kids that think they're cool. It doesn't have to be nail and coffin to be edgy. Also Plamsa wasn't about destroying the world, just either 1) freeing all pokemon..through pokemon battles.... 2) taking it over. Magma didn't want to destroy the world either they wanted to give people more land. And to top it off, I am not sure that Aqua would count as wanting to destroy the world either...they wanted more water. Flare just wanted to take all pokemon to save them? Really Galactic was the only one for world destruction and even then the grunts hand no idea what as actually up.
That's a fair point. I guess it is too early to say either for sure. I could see GameFreak trying to appeal to the kids with the edgy kind of villains... I apologize if I sounded rude in my first comment. I could have worded it much more politely than I did.
The Japanese site has Sun and Moon pages dedicated to the Zubat and Dratini lines for some reason.

Foreshadowing?
I hate to say it, but it looks like we won't be getting any Alola forms outside of gen one. It's a shame. I hope I'm wrong.
On a separate note, I hope that Dragonite-A looks like my avatar and that Crobat-A looks like a fruit bat. Fruit bats fit the tropical theme of Alola, so I don't think it'd be too farfetched. Those would be the first two actually competetively relevant Pokemon to get Alola forms. It looks like Alola forms will follow the trend that Megas took of buffing weak and popular Pokemon.

I like how the grunts have their Pokemon in Nest Balls since they're used to catch weak Pokemon. It gives some small personality to the trainers.
 
Like other people, I want to see buffs for other gens but we need to remember this is still the 20th anniversary of Gen 1 so it makes sense they would only focus on those Pokemon (as of now).
 
On a separate note, I hope that Dragonite-A looks like my avatar and that Crobat-A looks like a fruit bat. Fruit bats fit the tropical theme of Alola, so I don't think it'd be too farfetched. Those would be the first two actually competetively relevant Pokemon to get Alola forms. It looks like Alola forms will follow the trend that Megas took of buffing weak and popular Pokemon.
I wouldn't count your chickens yet. We've already seen regular Dragonite in trailers, as well as Zubat and Golbat. And Crobat isn't even a Gen I Pokémon! I doubt any of them are getting Alola forms. I think Mega Crobat and Mega Dragonite are more likely.
 
Does anyone else think Plumeria look just like Gen VI Punk Girl? I was wondering why she looked so familiar. The pose that all the Skull grunts do is hilarious, price of joining a street gang.

I just watched the Japanese trailer and a normal-looking Cubone evolves into Alolan Marowak. That's a pretty drastic type change. The former biology student in me doesn't understand. Why did Marowak adapt to protect themselves against their grass predators, and Cubone did not? /random

 
I enjoy Team Skull for a variety of reasons:

a) defeats the scope creep problem Pokemon has been having lately. Every plot since RSE has been about destroying the whole world.. but now it seems like these guys are a bunch of hoodlums led by a Slav with a big chip on his shoulder...and that's cool. It makes the conflicts more relatable, the villains more "realistic" (Guzma mentions failing the critieria for becoming a Trial Captain), and the plot might be a bit easier to follow as well (with the Gym leaders finally being relevant!)
Why do so many people discount the fact that A. Guzma basically referred to himself as "Destruction in human form" and B. Solgaleo and Lunara probably can do stuff with the Sun and Moon that could cause major devastation? Odds are that Guzma will try to destroy more than just Trial Grounds and more local stuff.


Don't get me wrong, the motivations are a lot smaller in scope compared to the previous few games, but when it comes to Guzma:
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't count your chickens yet. We've already seen regular Dragonite in trailers, as well as Zubat and Golbat. And Crobat isn't even a Gen I Pokémon! I doubt any of them are getting Alola forms. I think Mega Crobat and Mega Dragonite are more likely.
OK, having now used Google Translate and a little common sense, it appears that these Japanese pages for the Zubat line and the Dratini line are simply Sun/Moon Pokédex samples. I don't think there's anything more to it than that.
 
I just watched the Japanese trailer and a normal-looking Cubone evolves into Alolan Marowak. That's a pretty drastic type change. The former biology student in me doesn't understand. Why did Marowak adapt to protect themselves against their grass predators, and Cubone did not? /random
This is Pokémon. Real world biology has no place here.

EDIT: This is my 1,800th post on Smogon. I'm happy it was this one.
 
Last edited:
It just now strikes me that our new sea cucumber is similar to the CAP project Plasmanta, at least in concept. Plasmanta was supposed to be a monster that discouraged you from KO'ing it right away due to causing some worse effect. Their plan was to use Plasmanta and it's ground weakness as bait, since knocking it out would let Mega Gyarados come in and go crazy.

Whether it actually worked is another story (I think technically all the CAP projects are concept failures, just to show how hard game design really is), but it's kind of cool that Gamefreak picked up the spirit of it with our new little sea cucumber.

I doubt Gamefreak really knows about CAP, but I'm glad some of the ideas have been adapted. Heck, if Minior turns out to be a special attacker (it used power gem in the debut video) then we might finally have a true special attacking rock type like Stratagem.

Diancie and Omastar don't count since they don't have special rock moves worth using (not that there's any besides Power Gem).
 
Last edited:
That's a fair point. I guess it is too early to say either for sure. I could see GameFreak trying to appeal to the kids with the edgy kind of villains... I apologize if I sounded rude in my first comment. I could have worded it much more politely than I did.

I hate to say it, but it looks like we won't be getting any Alola forms outside of gen one. It's a shame. I hope I'm wrong.
On a separate note, I hope that Dragonite-A looks like my avatar and that Crobat-A looks like a fruit bat. Fruit bats fit the tropical theme of Alola, so I don't think it'd be too farfetched. Those would be the first two actually competetively relevant Pokemon to get Alola forms. It looks like Alola forms will follow the trend that Megas took of buffing weak and popular Pokemon.

I like how the grunts have their Pokemon in Nest Balls since they're used to catch weak Pokemon. It gives some small personality to the trainers.
Nah, no offense was taken man ^^
 
I don't think Team Skull is comparable to Team Rocket. Even if Team Rocket isn't trying to create another universe or something, they're seemingly on a whole other level. Team Rocket is the equivalent of a mafia or mob. Giovanni is the powerful boss a huge criminal organization who has money, connections, and lot of power. From what has been shown, team Skull seems more like a local street gang. That's not necessarily a bad thing though.

Also, Alola Raichu sort of gives me Audino vibes. The eyes look similar to Audino's and the ears look similar to Mega Audino's.
 
Last edited:

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
I'm REALLY late with this so let me try to cover a lot of ground in a little time:

POKEMON:
Morelull:
Where most people see a new mushroom Pokemon, many competitive players see a new Spore user (it's even the basis of its name: More lull (sleep)). :P
I'm debating whether I like the typing or not. On one hand it's nice to have another Grass/Fairy since a lot of Grass-types seem to have fairy/elf/sprite/nymph like qualities yet only the Whimsicott family got it and they're not one of the Grass-types I would have though to get the typing. Speaking of which that's my problem with Morelull, it doesn't look much like a fairy-like creature either. Yes, I know about fairy rings but does Morelull look like a ring to you? I suppose its evolution could "fix" that but I think at least Morelull should have maybe remained pure Grass.
Not spectacular Abilities, Effect Spore could sometimes be a hindrance if you want to afflict a certain type of status and, unless they changed it, Illuminate does nothing (come on, how hard is it to make it decrease an opponent's accuracy by 1 stage when sent out?). Hopefully it gets a decent Hidden Ability.
It's description sounds a bit like Oddish with it walking around at night to find new places to plant itself and feed (though Morelull feeds off the soil while Oddish is looking for a nice sunbathing spot).
Morelull broadcast spores that glow brightly when they burst open. Looking at their pulsing light has a soporific effect.

BTW, soporific means "to induce sleep & drowsiness" in case you think they forgot its going to be a Spore user.
Otherwise there's not much else to say about it. Neat it's base on both bioluminescent mushrooms and fairy rings, but it's just a plain first stage so looking forward to see what its evolution has to offer and how different it'll be from the other mushroom Pokemon.

Pyukumuku: The sea cucumber Pokemon I always hoped they do: one which spews out its organs!
Water is alright, it's an aquatic creature and being a pure type was never a bad thing (Water also is a good pure type to be). Also I think what we're seeing of Pyukumuku is what we're going to get, it's gimmick tells me it's going to be a solo Pokemon with no evolutions. Could be wrong, it also looks to be partially based on several species of sea slugs (and maybe an urchin?) so if they want they could go that route with it, but I think the gimmick might get nerfed from a "stronger" evolution unless it makes it easier for it to get knocked out.
Innards Out is the one in the spotlight here, a Final Gambit-like Ability when the opponent knocks out Pyukumuku. Opponents will be careful wanting to slowly whittle down its HP giving the user two choices: trying to do as much with it as possible and/or setting it up to do as much damage as possible when it faints. We'll have to see how good its HP and support/status movepool is before we can make any calls (I'd imagine they'd want to keep its HP medium to medium-low, making its Ability useful but not necessarily a guaranteed OHKO (especially for any Pokemon who's base HP is either below or matches)).
It has quite the contradictory Pokedex entries, and many involve people throwing it. It's disliked to Alolans throw them back into the ocean as a part-time job. Oh, but since they prefer to starve then move from their favorite spot Alolans feel sorry for it and throw them back into the ocean to find food. Also it creates a fluid that's used for skin care products. So is it liked or not liked?
However I do like all the info they have on it and what they're telling make it sound unique. It's complex relation with Alolans, it liking to stay in one spot even if it means starving, and of course it having an fist-like organ which it spews out (thus explaining how Innards Out works: it gives its all to give you on last literal gut punch). Also it's fainting animation has it using the organ to hold itself up which I find funny (which sounds a bit morbid saying that out loud).
Design is simple but gets the point across. Yes it looks like a piece of dessert but maybe that's to connect to the basis animal also having a type of food in its name. I'll be looking forward to chucking these things into the ocean (wait, does that sound like I don't like it? I'm rather neutral on it. It just sounds like that'll be a mini-game, Pyukumuku Chucking (the name works on so many levels))!

Wishiwashi: Zygarde ain't the only Pokemon that can come together!
It's a fish so its Water-type. NEXT.
Schooling sounds interesting, turning it from Solo Form to the presumable more more powerful School Form. Now the trailer makes it sound like it'll only be able to do this at a certain level while the site is a bit more ambiguous. However the site also says "Wishiwashi that have encountered many dangerous situations and have a lot of experience calling on their allies", so maybe how strong it is is dependent on level (though if that's the case its odd it doesn't have multiple forms of different sized swarms)? But there is major downside to this Ability: it reverts back if its HP is low. Now Bulbapedia says at half while Serebii says its level dependent, still this could break Wishiwashi. Unless School Form is SO strong (and bulky) that's difficult to do, it might suffer the same fate as the Archen family (I get why, school of fish gather together so it makes running away easier, but still have we learned nothing from the Archen family? Like could it maybe instead revert back once attacked but reform at the start of next turn, that way both player and opponent would need to play a game of Speed & priority to best use/hinder it).
Since they split the description into two both repeat the same information. A Solo Form one looks weak, but its feared because it can send out a SOS light from its eyes to summon a swarm to create School Form which is so feared even Gyarados run from it. And it's also likely to be a solo Pokemon in terms of evolution as its potential evolution is part of its Ability gimmick. All in all, everything depends on what boost it gets and at what percentage of HP does it revert back.

ALOLAN POKEMON:
Meowth:
Maybe now it should also be called the "Classy Cat".
Already talked about the Type change, and they explained why nicely (Royal family spoiled them so they became selfish and prideful) though it does step on Purrloin's territory.
Same Abilities as usual, AKA if you don't use Technician what is wrong with you. A bit disappointing, though maybe Alolan Persian would bring something new.
Meowth was brought over like Vulpix though as a form of prestige. A gift to the royal family, only those worthy could have one so no filthy commoners. WELL that didn't last long, monarchy was destroyed and Alolan Meowth became wild Pokemon.
And incase you're wondering, Hawaii actually has a cat overpopulation problem. However the cats were just brought over by people moving to Hawaii, they weren't gifts to the royal family (though they did own cats... but apparently so did everyone else).
Look forward to Alolan Persian unless they have it revert back to normal Persian for some reason.

Marowak: So wait, a Ground-type Cubone evolves into a Fire/Ghost Marowak?
Yup, in the Japanese trailer they show it's a normal Cubone evolving. So Cubone didn't adapt alongside Marowak? I mean maybe making it part Ghost wouldn't make sense since that's a reference, but they could have made it a Fire-type and have the bond they carry be used as a torch. Of course the Japanese trailers do cut away before showing us the actual in-game evolution so maybe there's something they don't want to show us yet that'll explain it.
Sorry to all of those hoping for Rock Head Flare Blitz, but Marowak replaced Rock Head with Cursed Body... probably should have kept Rock Head. It does keep Lightning Rod though so it keeps its Electric-type immunity (and raises Special Attack if hit by an Electric move so maybe have it be made into a mixed attacker? Then again it does says fireballs it flings at opponents are weak though maybe they're just talking about Will-O-Wisp?).
So the reason for the change is that they live in an environment of Grass-types and so they became so close knit they gained a second sense (so shouldn't they be Psychic?). Also the mark on its head is actually where it rubs it bone club to light it on fire, like a match strip.
Odd normal Cubone evolves into it, but we'll see how that affects its gameplay when the games come out.

Raichu: Oh look who GameFreak & Pokemon Company remembered exists!
Obviously they weren't going to give Pikachu an Alolan form, BUT Raichu is fair game and they went far out with this concept. For one thing its now an Electric/Psychic-type. Why? BECAUSE PANCAKES! No, really, that's pretty much the answer the site gives before shrugging it off:
Even Pokémon researchers don’t know why Raichu’s form changed in the Alola region. The people of Alola seem unconcerned by the question. Their guess: maybe it ate too many sweet and fluffy round pancakes!
Even when re-creating Raichu the creators didn't care, they were too busy wanting pancakes.
Well whatever the reason it now uses its Psychic powers and larger tail to float around on its sail like a surfboard! "Hey, wouldn't it be more sense to make it Water-type then? Making it both a reference to Raichu using its tail to Surf in the Stadium games and even that tidal wave sensing Pikachu in the anime"? Here, have a plate of pancakes!
Back on track, its Ability is yet another boost for Electric Terrain, doubling Alolan Raichu's Speed. Odd, though this now makes me wonder if they did this so in a battle against Tapu Koko it can SOS summon an Alolan Raichu. But yeah, seems like they REALLY want Electric Terrain to get some use, but what of the other Terrain moves?
Oh, BTW its Psychic powers makes its cheeks release a sweet scent when rubbed for some reason. Probably smells like pancakes (no, I'm not letting this go. Why is it part Psychic-type besides being a cool offensive combination? Because it uses it tail to float around? What's wrong with the excuse it doing that by manipulating electormagnetic fields like the Magnemite family?).
A for its design, well I give the artists credit resisting the urge to make its color scheme more match Pikachu's. It looks to have some color swapping going on, specifically with the colors of the body and ears. Looks like it got a tan. I'm okay with it but I'm a bit bothered about how curvy it got maybe instead of round pancakes it should have eaten square or triangle ones.

And still no Mega Pokemon news... or non-Kanto Alolan Pokemon...

NEXT TIME: Team Skull is breaking skulls!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top