Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKIII *Official Media Only*

[Bombkirby]

I don't think Mario has become less popular so much as the games have stagnated because of uninspired game design + Nintendo's desire to ruin Paper Mario.

That has nothing to do with this. This just sounds like your own feelings.

Remember Pokemon Go came out and introduced/reintroduced new fans to the series. It reached a general audience that had never touched the main series and I'm sure many of them are interested in the main series now.

Also no other game has had this many trailers. It always ends up at the top of Reddit (9th most viewed website),YouTube (4th most viewed website) and other sites when they post a trailer each week. They know how to hype this.

My... the name Decidueye is... even weirder than when we thought of Entermaid before. At least Ashirene/Primarina actually sounds very well.


Finally, it is truly confirmed once and for all.

Sounds *good not "well"

 

[Norne]

S/M is looking to be my favorite set of games since the gen 2 games (remakes). When I found out that the developers thought the original gen 2 games were going to be the last Pokemon games, it made a lot of sense. You could tell that they put in a lot of effort to make it really special for that reason. While S/M won't be the last Pokemon games, you can tell that they've put a lot of effort b/c it's Pokemon's 20th anniversary. This game is giving everything I want and everything I didn't know I wanted.

My other thoughts:
*Deciduoeye: Name aside, it's just amazing. It looks fantastic in motion, especially when it uses its signature move. I just love the way it draws and shoots its arrows. The typing was unexpected but it just makes this pokemon more amazing. No 4x ice weakness and it won't have as much trouble with steel types as many other grass types do. The best grass starter line ever.

*Primarina: Also looks great in motion, especially when it stands up and attacks. I loved the way the hair stands up. They've mentioned how this starter line uses water balloons offensively so hopefully it can be incorporated more into its animations. They sort of did that with Sparkling Aria but I hope there's more than that.

*Tapus: easily the best legendary group in a while. I love their design and concept. The descriptions for the newly revealed Tapus is what's really intrigued me about them. Bulu's plant manipulation, Lele's scales, and Fini's fog were interesting to read about and I hope that aspect of them is explored more in the games.

*I loved the idea of seeing the start-up of a region's Pokemon League when it was first mentioned in the Chinese leaks and I'm glad it's finally been confirmed. I hope that instead of challenging a champion, the player gets to be the champion and has to take on challengers and defend his/her title instead.

*Battle Tree: One of the best things about gen 2 and BW2 was seeing an update on characters we were previously introduced to. It's great to see an older Red and Blue making an appearance. Although Red's updated look could have been better. I think it's the hair and shirt. His hair should have been sleeker and maybe they should have given him a cool vest. That said, he does look better in motion before and during battle.

I know this is within the realm of opinions , but gen 2 and its remakes are below the average standard of all the games , the remakes are all fluff no substance(I should know I'm replaying all the games in backwards order preparing for Moon arrival and I'm in SS now) it's honestly mediocre for a remake even if they added a bit of stuff from platinum and Crystal as the core game play doesn't change from a game with the worst level curve and exposition to its new elements.

GSC are memorable because they where delayed and stuck in development hell for the most arid games ever and only added Kanto as a last ditch effort after it was optimized memory wise, whenever I play GSC or it's remakes I'm always reminded of a rushed game of stuff that was poorly planned for actual gameplay .

Second, the idea of defending a title sounds decent in paper and good for role play purposes. . . But on actual gameplay purposes it is a dull , boring sand mediocre idea even if you sugar coat it with rewards and long cutscenes. I'm amazed at the fact that people ask for such feature as much as open world when in reality they don't work at all with the mechanics of this franchise.

I do agree that the owl is awesome concept wise .

 

[pharaohcalvin]

I know this is within the realm of opinions , but gen 2 and its remakes are below the average standard of all the games , the remakes are all fluff no substance(I should know I'm replaying all the games in backwards rider and I'm in HGSS now) it's honestly mediocre for a remake even if they added a bit of stuff from platinum and Crystal as the core game play doesn't change from a game with the worst level curve and exposition to its new elements.

GSC are memorable because they where delayed and stuck in development hell for the most arid games ever and only added Kanto as a last ditch effort after it was optimized memory wise, whenever I play GSC or it's remakes I'm always reminded of a rushed game of stuff that was poorly planned for actual gameplay .

Second, the idea of defending a title sounds decent in paper and good for role play purposes. . . But on actual gameplay purposes it is a dull , boring sand mediocre idea even if you sugar coat it with rewards and long cutscenes. I'm amazed at the fact that people ask for such feature as much as open world when in reality they don't work at all with the mechanics of this franchise.

I do agree that the owl is awesome concept wise .

Don't know what you are going on about. I actually can reply HG/SS and enjoy it. I can't do that for 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th gen. (Not that 3rd (R/S), 4th (D/P) or 6th (All of them) are bad games.) There is a nice charm to having two regions in the game, and the level curve just meant you had to plan out your team better. Nothing wrong with expecting a bit more out of the player. Sure, they are no XD, but they are far from "below average standard."

As for the second part, agreed. Defending the title sounds like it could get annoying and repetitive if they force you to have to go and do it every so often and if they didn't force you, are you really defending a title then? I mean, at that point you are jsut fighting some guy whenever you want.

 

[Norne]

Don't know what you are going on about. I actually can reply HG/SS and enjoy it. I can't do that for 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th gen. (Not that 3rd (R/S), 4th (D/P) or 6th (All of them) are bad games.) There is a nice charm to having two regions in the game, and the level curve just meant you had to plan out your team better. Nothing wrong with expecting a bit more out of the player. Sure, they are no XD, but they are far from "below average standard."

As for the second part, agreed. Defending the title sounds like it could get annoying and repetitive if they force you to have to go and do it every so often and if they didn't force you, are you really defending a title then? I mean, at that point you are jsut fighting some guy whenever you want.

It's not about planing your team better , the fact that you can't explore the expanded pokedex at leisure and that team changes post Morty are punished by the level curve essentially locks you out of a lot of Pokémon , HGSS barely helped here with the poke walker and night-time at the safari as otherwise steel is reduced to magnemite post Morty and dark type in Sneasel(ice path updated if I recall) or umbreon as the sole dark type in the originals.

Pokémon like Hoppip are cursed with mediocrity ingame , heck umbreon ss s choice is fucked silly by its level up movepool and if I recall only Grimer , Azumarrill , Heracross and uproar Noctowl actually benefit from updated movepools as johto dex mons pre XP drought .

All of the other options are overshadowed badly by a Kanto mon or come too late to compete with previous Pokémon without fucking the pacing , essentially the game PUNISHES YOU for trying new Pokémon.

Have to plan better is an understatement for terrible level and pacing design , two regions is all fluff and no substance , the content of Kanto is barely more than Pt battle zone even after the buffed levels in the remakes and 3 side quests that are solved in tandem is way inferior to any other game content wise than only original RS.

Defending the tittle becomes a drag easily if poorly implemented , if anything even with heavy rewards it might end up locked behind RNG or time events and stuff like that where terrible in execution beforehand , if you are trying to make this rewarding. . . Well it failed as a concept other than faking the importance of your actions at a role player level.

Im afraid of SM turning into the second coming of johto as previous dex species seemed more important than the new ones in the game play videos we have gotten and the cool postgame facility gallows the structure of Mt battle with just extra modes to enter. . . That's genuinely disappointing.

The league tease can be good even if it is locked by time or mini missions , but we have a red herring of it being a sequel bait of sorts. I hope it is the former even if it is a reward hidden behind terrible pacing .

 

[EJ190]

Something about how Decidueye folds the tips of his wings in his collar/neck bothers me... That does not look right...
Also not a fan the massive hands that Incineroar and Night-Lycanroc have...

 

[Norne]

Something about how Decidueye folds the tips of his wings in his collar/neck bothers me... That does not look right...
Also not a fan the massive hands that Incineroar and Night-Lycanroc have...

I'm a fan of them because they look cartoony , but people looking for more animalistic designs can feel that they are out of place, heck I might feel that unlike the anchor Pokémon like Lycanrock M and Luchalitten are falling under the Gardobor hate scope , they are too goofy and thus break the immersion of a vocal minority for "X" or "Y" reason .

 

[LightningLord2]

Incineroar completely threw me off, giving me something to work for despite the mediocre design of the first two stages. I think I will stick with Rowlett as my starter choice, though. I sure hope that all of those will perform decently in-game - one thing I dislike in various games (mainly Gen 2-4) how terribly imbalanced the starters are in their in-game performance.

 

[Sweetstack]

I know this is within the realm of opinions , but gen 2 and its remakes are below the average standard of all the games , the remakes are all fluff no substance(I should know I'm replaying all the games in backwards rider and I'm in HGSS now) it's honestly mediocre for a remake even if they added a bit of stuff from platinum and Crystal as the core game play doesn't change from a game with the worst level curve and exposition to its new elements.

GSC are memorable because they where delayed and stuck in development hell for the most arid games ever and only added Kanto as a last ditch effort after it was optimized memory wise, whenever I play GSC or it's remakes I'm always reminded of a rushed game of stuff that was poorly planned for actual gameplay .

Second, the idea of defending a title sounds decent in paper and good for role play purposes. . . But on actual gameplay purposes it is a dull , boring sand mediocre idea even if you sugar coat it with rewards and long cutscenes. I'm amazed at the fact that people ask for such feature as much as open world when in reality they don't work at all with the mechanics of this franchise.

I do agree that the owl is awesome concept wise .

We seem to just enjoy different things from the Pokemon games, which is fine. Features that have gotten me to re-visit HGSS multiple times may be things you find to be fluff and certain aspects that you didn't like, I can overlook.

As for the idea of being a defending champion. You bring up some good points. I thought it would be a nice change of pace, kind of like how the Island Challenge is deviating from the standard 8 gym formula. But yeah, it does sound like it could be repetitive.

 

[Norne]

We seem to just enjoy different things from the Pokemon games, which is fine. Features that have gotten me to re-visit HGSS multiple times may be things you find to be fluff and certain aspects that you didn't like, I can overlook.

As for the idea of being a defending champion. You bring up some good points. I thought it would be a nice change of pace, kind of like how the Island Challenge is deviating from the standard 8 gym formula. But yeah, it does sound like it could be repetitive.

I'm not shilling on you, it's just that when I replay multiple games of a franchise I analyze their core aspects , shit like graphics , music changes and stuff like walking Pokémon don't affect the gameplay . . . They are visual features ir fluff , johto personality ir having 2 regions aren't great if there is party creation imbalance or if cities don't have much purpose . . . Johto is very guilty if this and by extension Kanto .

Hence the ups only fluff remark. It all comes to implementation , I mean I can't find a way in wich open world or role playing stuff like missions to defend a title could work without them being a drag instead of a rewarding immersional feature , but that doesn't mean there isn't one, I'm just being practical in my judgement.

Lets keep our emotions to the side and judge the content we know for real. And I really hope the personality of Alola cities is close to Unova in convenience but with a bit more of local fluff like in Sinnoh or even Hoenn , the demo shows that the fluff is real to some extent so I hope unova convenience appears in key cities of the game.

 

[dodiabla]

New video for pokemon about the adventures of the Japanese boy. Also reveals that Alolan Eggy gets a Z-move called Breakneck Blitz

 

[Antihaxxer]

Bug/Electric 2nd stage evolve at final stage at level 40 !! We can expect good stats

 

[Jibaku]

Minior's max HP is...rather odd to say the least

Hide

EDIT: It's more that it's 148 and 142 in the same battle. Given the way the shot was done it was unlikely that Minior had time to forme change, in the event that its shell-less forme actually has less base HP.

 

[dodiabla]

Minior's max HP is...rather odd to say the least

Hide

Calcing based on 148 HP gives us:
88 HP with no EVs or IVs, 73 with 31 IVs 0 EVs, 41 with 31 IVs 252 EVs

 

[MrTharne]

johto personality ir having 2 regions aren't great if there is party creation imbalance or if cities don't have much purpose . . . Johto is very guilty if this and by extension Kanto .

About cities : That's the case in all games.
About party creation imbalance : ??? I don't really see your point. Some Pokémon are better than others...like in all other games.

 

[Khaelis]

New video for pokemon about the adventures of the Japanese boy. Also reveals that Alolan Eggy gets a Z-move called Breakneck Blitz

Pretty sure that's just the regular Normal-type Z Move. Taurus in another trailer used the very same one, but the text was in Japanese. Friend of mine pointed this out to me earlier.

 

[Absolclaw]

When the website says Sparkling Aria will cure the burns of 'any' target it strikes, does that mean it will be a Surf/Earthquake-ish type of move instead of anti-Scald?

 

[DHR-107]

Well, Wally is there. He's not a Champion or a Gym Leader (assuming Gym Leaders are present in Battle Tree, you could consider them 'famous' in a sense) so it would make sense for other rivals to be present as well.

My guess is:
- All Protagonists present
- All Rival characters present
- All Champion present
- Gym Leaders present, hopefully

This seems like a lot to add. Models for all of those trainers comes to some ridiculous number, assuming they all have animations. I guess they could put them all on a default "human rig" but still. Also, I highly doubt any protags will be made canon apart from Red. The only other one I think we see again is the BW1 protag in a flashback right when using the Memory Link in BW2? Even then you don't battle them. Too many variable/viable Pokemon.

On this note however, I hope they do some Pokemon upgrades/mix stuff up a bit for Blue/Red. Blue having Alolan Exeggutor/Mega Pidgeot and Red being able to Mega Evolve something would be awesome.

All four guardian deities get a super fang equivalent according to Pokémon official site. Thoughts on this?

This was shown and known since they first revealed Tapu Koko. As its a Super Fang clone, it'll likely be better off using its other moves. Even its likely Z Move form of Guardian Of Alola isn't that much of an upgrade, even though its animation is sick.

Bug/Electric 2nd stage evolve at final stage at level 40 !! We can expect good stats

This is really odd considering we saw a much lower level Vikavolt in an earlier video fighting a Milotic... I think it was Lv 27/28 or something. I wonder if some of the videos are just made up stuff sometimes and extra fluff in others.

 

[Khaelis]

This seems like a lot to add. Models for all of those trainers comes to some ridiculous number, assuming they all have animations. I guess they could put them all on a default "human rig" but still. Also, I highly doubt any protags will be made canon apart from Red. The only other one I think we see again is the BW1 protag in a flashback right when using the Memory Link in BW2? Even then you don't battle them. Too many variable/viable Pokemon.

On this note however, I hope they do some Pokemon upgrades/mix stuff up a bit for Blue/Red. Blue having Alolan Exeggutor/Mega Pidgeot and Red being able to Mega Evolve something would be awesome.

I kinda have to agree, but assuming that they all have basic trainer animation intros, it really isn't a huge amount. Most of them are only a few frames. Don't forget: didn't they find like 190 trainer classes in the demo? It is possible at this point. I'm not expecting Gym Leaders, but it would be great to see them again, but I can definitely see Protagonists, Rivals and Champions at the very least being present in the Battle Tree.



Anyways... just a though, Decidueye's hidden ability better be Technician and Spirit Shackles better be 60 base power, cause that'd be evil as hell. XD

 

[Carrier]

I'm digging these signature moves. Spirit Shackle is an interesting Mean-Look (physical?) attack, and Darkest Lariat gives a neat Unaware attack. Loving the precedent for more ability-attacks or move combinations, and GF made it pretty obvious what it shares with Lycanroc now.

But... what's the benefit from Sparkling Aria?

Healing your target's burns is a new effect for a damaging move, but when would that be particularly useful outside of one or two instances in a Double or Triple battle?

In other news I'm actually pretty satisfied with how the starters turned out.
I thought Incineroar would be a bit of a letdown being bipedal, but it looks alright up close. Hands are a bit weird, but nothing that's a deal breaker.
Honestly I just love that Decidueye is wearing a hoodie and closed it to sleep.
Primarina isn't a favorite, but it does itself okay. Never going to get over how much it's cry sounds like a whistle, though...

 

[Khaelis]

I'm digging these signature moves. Spirit Shackle is an interesting Mean-Look (physical?) attack, and Darkest Lariat gives a neat Unaware attack. Loving the precedent for more ability-attacks or move combinations, and GF made it pretty obvious what it shares with Lycanroc now.

But... what's the benefit from Sparkling Aria?

Healing your target's burns is a new effect for a damaging move, but when would that be particularly useful outside of one or two instances in a Double or Triple battle?

In other news I'm actually pretty satisfied with how the starters turned out.
I thought Incineroar would be a bit of a letdown being bipedal, but it looks alright up close. Hands are a bit weird, but nothing that's a deal breaker.
Honestly I just love that Decidueye is wearing a hoodie and closed it to sleep.
Primarina isn't a favorite, but it does itself okay. Never going to get over how much it's cry sounds like a whistle, though...

Possibly could be a spread move like Surf like someone mentioned earlier, damage your own team slightly, but heal their burn while damaging them.

 

[gabriel]

Eggy's Z-move has a different name, but its animation is very similar to Hypersprint's. I'm confused...

 

[zferolie]

This seems like a lot to add. Models for all of those trainers comes to some ridiculous number, assuming they all have animations. I guess they could put them all on a default "human rig" but still. Also, I highly doubt any protags will be made canon apart from Red. The only other one I think we see again is the BW1 protag in a flashback right when using the Memory Link in BW2? Even then you don't battle them. Too many variable/viable Pokemon.

On this note however, I hope they do some Pokemon upgrades/mix stuff up a bit for Blue/Red. Blue having Alolan Exeggutor/Mega Pidgeot and Red being able to Mega Evolve something would be awesome.




This was shown and known since they first revealed Tapu Koko. As its a Super Fang clone, it'll likely be better off using its other moves. Even its likely Z Move form of Guardian Of Alola isn't that much of an upgrade, even though its animation is sick.



This is really odd considering we saw a much lower level Vikavolt in an earlier video fighting a Milotic... I think it was Lv 27/28 or something. I wonder if some of the videos are just made up stuff sometimes and extra fluff in others.

I agree that seeing other protags, while awesome, is probably unlikely. Could happen though, this is their 20th aniversery and they are showing them off in the shorts.

I myself, while it is probably unlikely, want to see Phoebe here. She would fit perfect in the Alola region since she already is basically a Hawaiian design.

Why would it be bad not to have their Natures Maddness. The Z-move I agree is not super great but instantly reducing a tanks HP by 50% is pretty good.

 

[Rechi]

Eggy's Z-move has a different name, but its animation is very similar to Hypersprint's. I'm confused...

They're both the Normal Z-move. Hyper-sprint attack is the translation of the German name for it and Breakneck Blitz is the English name.

 

[Kiga]

That video also showed a brief run through the pokédex. They gave us these:

Caterpie
Bonsly
Happiny
Munchlax
Slowpoke
Wingull
Abra
Magnemite

It should be noted that the Alolan Meowth can also be seen during the display, but that none of these pokémon appear to be in an Alolan form. Of course, that could just be as simple as the form display options that the Pokédex already has, so as to prevent leaks.

Also, were the older kids meant to be an approximation of Team Skull? It seemed like the video might have been showcasing that Bewear would be used by Skull (or Aether), when they led with grunt-mons (Raticate and Persian), but then switched to Silvally.

About Red and Blue's teams, which generation are they coming from? Blue's team is actually pretty diverse, and is never quite the same generation from generation, even including the Pokémon World Tournament, where he showed up with an Aerodactyl. If we just go from his FRLG-HGSS-BW2 rosters, then he has eleven pokémon that can be taken from, discounting the starters, and that's if they don't give him some new ones here. Blue has always been the type to train multiple pokémon and change his team up, no matter the canon, be it the games, the manga, or the anime.

Red, on the other hand...well, I just want to see an Espeon over that Lapras.

 

[Absolclaw]

Bewear seems too friendly to be a villain team-ish Pokemon to me.